This is a mystery sound recorded on the Gaspe Penninsula Quebec May 2010 using
handheld Telinga ProV1 and an HHB Portadisc.
I made this recording at about 11pm standing next to a marsh which is bounded by
a small river. The Spring Peepers, American Toads and Wilson's Snipe are
straight forward but about every 25 seconds or so there is a one or two syllable
call. Identifying this sound still teases me. What do you think?
John Neville
BC Canada
01 Track 1.mp3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear colleagues,

Interesting case about drumming in wasps:

http://www.news.wisc.edu/18877

Best,


Gjermund Kolltveit
Hellaveien 66, 1458 Fjellstrand
NORWAY

Dropping price to $500AU/US + postage.

happy to ship worldwide at cost.

thanks.
Paul


On 18/01/2011, at 4:42 PM, Paul Jacobson wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Sorry to bother the list with a "for sale" notice.
>
> My Telinga Universal has been gathering dust, and hasn't  been taken out of
the house in the past 9 months.
>
> The dish has some scratches from being rolled up etc but is in otherwise very
good condition and has had little use since it was purchased in March 2008. 
Comes with Telinga wind cover and draw string transport bag.  Perfect for use
with AT3032, AT4022, K6-ME62, etc. A battery powered ME62 plus xlr to 3.5mm
adapter cable would be perfect for use with a handheld recorder, and will give
far better results than a shotgun.   The dish rolls up making it easy to pack
into a suitcase for air travel (try that with a fibreglass dish!!).
>
> The setup cost in excess of $800.00AU shipped, asking $600AU + postage.
>
> cheers
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hello and thanks for granting me membership!
Spent much time yesterday researching on how to improve my field
recordings. Found your "Community Tech FAQ for NatureRecordist List
Users" and would now like to submit a question following the guidelines
of "Details to include when Seeking Equipment Advice" .....

(1) The primary sound subjects you want to record and whether you want
these sounds to have as much separation from the background sounds as
possible or if you want to capture the spatial/biological context and
the primary subject at the same time. If you want to do both, tell us
which type is your first priority.

Primary subjects are all wildlife - whatever random birds and insects
are present. Would like to essentially capture the locations ambient
audio to give the effect of actually being there. I'm not attempting to
single out any species. These recording are mostly used as an escape
from my city life when back at my primary home.

(2) Describe the the settings you expect to be recording in most of the
time.

Mostly remote natural areas where its rare to hear traffic and other
human-made sounds. Mostly jungle, orchards,  lagoons, and open fields. 8
miles of dirt road to get to my property, in one of the least densely
populated countries in the world, and 5 miles from the nearest power
lines.

(3) Describe your preferred recording style or "profile."

Portable / small back-pack size. Something that I can set-up, strap to a
tree or tripod mount, and leave rolling for an hour.

(4) Your total budget including mics, mic array, wind protection,
recorder and enclosed headphones. Provide a description of relevant gear
you already own.

Would like to purchase two mics for under a grand ($1K). Currently have
the Marantz PMD661 and all the cable & tripods I could ever need.  Other
mics I have that may be of use???: one AT831b and one Shure BETA 98.
Also have a Mytek Stereo96ADC  and a DC/AC car power inverter that I
could attach to my vehicle for AC power - but would prefer to keep it
simple for now.

You may listen (download or stream) my last session here:
http://field.brizbomb.com/ <http://field.brizbomb.com/>   This will be
my primary recording location. These recording were done with the
internal mics of the PMD661 with the pre slammed. Did some minor
mastering and some wind mic rumble edited out all within Audacity.

From the research I've done, it sounds like I should be hunting for some
AT3032's??? Maybe build a Jecklin or Schneider disk?? Tear-up some car
wash mitts for wind protection? I'm pretty happy with the recording I've
done with the PMD661 alone but wondering how much this would improve
with some properly arrayed quality mics. THANKS!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

howdy, briz.

this is AJ/cathartech from seattle and i too use the pmd-661, primarily to
gather ambience to use in soundscape production.  it's a really nice
recorder for its price.  i'm primarily using a pair of at853s on a flexible
t-mount (sourced from soundprofessionals.com) and a home made jecklin disc,
as well as an aquarian hydrophone and an old school sony parabola (not for
use with the hydrophone).  the noise specs on the at853 sucks (24dba), but
they are tiny, have multiple caps, and can handle high volume. i chose them
as a passable, infinitely cheaper substitute for dpa 4060s.  the at3032s are
legendary, but out of production.  the 4042 is its replacement...it has the
same specs, but at $100 more.

these links should help you figure out what the ideal mic for the built in
pres are.

https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/RecorderList/RecorderList.htm
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/MicSpecCharts/Mics_16dBA.htm
http://www.rane.com/note148.html
https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/HiMD/index.htm

from the info above, the noisefloor of a pre needed to get the best
performance out of a 3032/4042 would be 125dbA -128dbA, right at the
threshold of the pmd-661's 125dBu.  other things to consider of course are
durability (gets a bit wet in our part of the world) and flexibility
(changeable polar patterns and gettings mics into weird places).

some pmd-661 caveats: headphone amp is noisy as hell.  also, i had to have
mine serviced after discovering a very weird jitter/quantizing noise issue
in the pre...maybe have been moisture induced.  i use the marantz carry
case, but it's by no means moisture resistant.

anyway, glad to see another cascadian weirdo musician on this forum.

-aj





On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM, brizbomb <briz@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hello and thanks for granting me membership!
> Spent much time yesterday researching on how to improve my field
> recordings. Found your "Community Tech FAQ for NatureRecordist List
> Users" and would now like to submit a question following the guidelines
> of "Details to include when Seeking Equipment Advice" .....
>
> (1) The primary sound subjects you want to record and whether you want
> these sounds to have as much separation from the background sounds as
> possible or if you want to capture the spatial/biological context and
> the primary subject at the same time. If you want to do both, tell us
> which type is your first priority.
>
> Primary subjects are all wildlife - whatever random birds and insects
> are present. Would like to essentially capture the locations ambient
> audio to give the effect of actually being there. I'm not attempting to
> single out any species. These recording are mostly used as an escape
> from my city life when back at my primary home.
>
> (2) Describe the the settings you expect to be recording in most of the
> time.
>
> Mostly remote natural areas where its rare to hear traffic and other
> human-made sounds. Mostly jungle, orchards, lagoons, and open fields. 8
> miles of dirt road to get to my property, in one of the least densely
> populated countries in the world, and 5 miles from the nearest power
> lines.
>
> (3) Describe your preferred recording style or "profile."
>
> Portable / small back-pack size. Something that I can set-up, strap to a
> tree or tripod mount, and leave rolling for an hour.
>
> (4) Your total budget including mics, mic array, wind protection,
> recorder and enclosed headphones. Provide a description of relevant gear
> you already own.
>
> Would like to purchase two mics for under a grand ($1K). Currently have
> the Marantz PMD661 and all the cable & tripods I could ever need. Other
> mics I have that may be of use???: one AT831b and one Shure BETA 98.
> Also have a Mytek Stereo96ADC and a DC/AC car power inverter that I
> could attach to my vehicle for AC power - but would prefer to keep it
> simple for now.
>
> You may listen (download or stream) my last session here:
> http://field.brizbomb.com/ <http://field.brizbomb.com/> This will be
> my primary recording location. These recording were done with the
> internal mics of the PMD661 with the pre slammed. Did some minor
> mastering and some wind mic rumble edited out all within Audacity.
>
> From the research I've done, it sounds like I should be hunting for some
> AT3032's??? Maybe build a Jecklin or Schneider disk?? Tear-up some car
> wash mitts for wind protection? I'm pretty happy with the recording I've
> done with the PMD661 alone but wondering how much this would improve
> with some properly arrayed quality mics. THANKS!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amazing.

Kevin J Colver
Soundscapes for Birders - a Podcast of Natural Sounds
www.7Loons.com




On Feb 2, 2011, at 5:11 AM, Gjermund Kolltveit wrote:

> Dear colleagues,
>
> Interesting case about drumming in wasps:
>
> http://www.news.wisc.edu/18877
>
> Best,
>
> Gjermund Kolltveit
> Hellaveien 66, 1458 Fjellstrand
> NORWAY
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff Rice recorded a trio of Great Horned Owls on Orcas Island last month and is
kind enough to share their sounds with us.  Listen in at the iTunes Store
"Soundscapes for Birders" podcast or at http://tinyurl.com/6dgv5bm.

I'd welcome any comments on what you think is going on in this encounter near
the nest tree.  My guess is a pair are disturbed by a third owl who is looking
to move in on the pair.

Jeff is the organizational brain and a principle recordist with the Western
Soundscapes Archive of natural sounds at the University of Utah.

www.westernsoundscape.org

Kevin Colver
www.7Loons.com
Soundscapes for Birders - a free podcast of natural sound.

This link might work better - http://tinyurl.com/6dgv5bm

Kevin J Colver
Soundscapes for Birders - a Podcast of Natural Sounds
www.7Loons.com




On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:54 PM, kjcolver wrote:

> Jeff Rice recorded a trio of Great Horned Owls on Orcas Island last
> month and is kind enough to share their sounds with us. Listen in at
> the iTunes Store "Soundscapes for Birders" podcast or
athttp://tinyurl.com/6dgv5bm
> .
>
> I'd welcome any comments on what you think is going on in this
> encounter near the nest tree. My guess is a pair are disturbed by a
> third owl who is looking to move in on the pair.
>
> Jeff is the organizational brain and a principle recordist with the
> Western Soundscapes Archive of natural sounds at the University of
> Utah.
>
> www.westernsoundscape.org
>
> Kevin Colver
> www.7Loons.com
> Soundscapes for Birders - a free podcast of natural sound.
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Anybody knows of someone able to repair a PMD661 in the UK ??

it' s preamplifiers have some kind of problem and produce constant
noises as well as notable differences in gain between L and R


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sold.

thanks
Paul

On 03/02/2011, at 4:19 PM, Paul Jacobson wrote:

> Dropping price to $500AU/US + postage.
>
> happy to ship worldwide at cost.
>
> thanks.
> Paul
>
>
> On 18/01/2011, at 4:42 PM, Paul Jacobson wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Sorry to bother the list with a "for sale" notice.
>>
>> My Telinga Universal has been gathering dust, and hasn't  been taken out of
the house in the past 9 months.
>>
>> The dish has some scratches from being rolled up etc but is in otherwise very
good condition and has had little use since it was purchased in March 2008. 
Comes with Telinga wind cover and draw string transport bag.  Perfect for use
with AT3032, AT4022, K6-ME62, etc. A battery powered ME62 plus xlr to 3.5mm
adapter cable would be perfect for use with a handheld recorder, and will give
far better results than a shotgun.   The dish rolls up making it easy to pack
into a suitcase for air travel (try that with a fibreglass dish!!).
>>
>> The setup cost in excess of $800.00AU shipped, asking $600AU + postage.
>>
>> cheers
>> Paul
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
>> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "While a picture is worth a thousand words, a
> sound is worth a thousand pictures." R. Murray Schafer via Bernie Krause.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

This may interest some of you:

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/2011-deis-sfra.htm

Grand Canyon National Park's Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for the
Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA) in the Vicinity of Grand Canyon National Park
is available for review and comment.

The DEIS analyzes four Alternatives for actions to manage aircraft overflight
activity to substantially restore natural quiet in the park, including:

     • Alternative A, No Action, Current Condition continues all aspects of
current management of helicopter and fixed-wing operations in the SFRA

     • Alternative E alternates seasonal use of flight corridors with short-loop
tour routes, enlarges flight-free zones, and requires conversion to quiet
technology

     • Alternative F modifies current conditions with conversion to quiet
technology, provides a seasonal shift in Dragon Corridor, and modifies West End
routes

     • The NPS Preferred Alternative includes alternating seasonal use for
short-loop tours but leaves long-loop routes open year-round, an annual
allocation and daily cap, several route and altitude changes, and conversion to
quiet technology required within ten years.

The DEIS also summarizes four additional Alternatives considered and dismissed
from further analysis.

Public participation is important for development of a successful plan.
Therefore we ask for your thoughtful evaluation and comment. Public comments
will be accepted up to 120 days from date of DEIS publication in the Federal
Register by the Environmental Protection Agency.

To download a copy of the DEIS and submit to submit comments, please visit NPS
Planning, Environment and Public Comment database (PEPC) at:

http://www.parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=65&projectID=28052&documentI\
D=38849

It is preferred comments be submitted on the website above, but comments may
also be mailed to: Superintendent, Attn: Office of Planning and Compliance, P.O.
Box 129, Grand Canyon, Arizona 86023. PEPC will also be the method for any
updates on public meetings and locations and DEIS information.

Before including your address, phone number, email address, or other personal
identifying information in your comment, be aware that your entire
comment—including personal identifying information—may be made publicly
available at any time. While you may ask us in your comment to withhold personal
identifying information from public review, we cannot guarantee we will be able
to do so.

For information or questions concerning the DEIS, call (928) 638-7328 and a
staff member will assist you.

Some of you may have already come across this online book: "Old Growth in the
East: A Survey", by Mary Byrd Davis. It is a state-by-state assessment of
primary and old growth forests in the eastern US. Looks like a pretty handy
resource for nature recordists. If only there were a cross-reference to
commercial airline flight paths.

You can download it here: http://www.primalnature.org/ogeast/contents.html

Pd
less chat more chi

Hi Paul,
Slightly related to your post, I discovered a flight path layer for Google
Earth, I have not played around with it very much yet, I suspect it only shows
current flights but it might be interesting in terms of watching a particular
area.

Here is a compressed link to Flightwise (the layer):

http://tinyurl.com/4ml9pcb

and to the Google Earth Blog Post on the layer:

http://tinyurl.com/2vr5m43

Enjoy,

--greg
http://gregweddig.net

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Dickinson" <pauld@...> wrote:
>
> Some of you may have already come across this online book: "Old Growth in the
East: A Survey", by Mary Byrd Davis. It is a state-by-state assessment of
primary and old growth forests in the eastern US. Looks like a pretty handy
resource for nature recordists. If only there were a cross-reference to
commercial airline flight paths.
>
> You can download it here: http://www.primalnature.org/ogeast/contents.html
>
> Pd
> less chat more chi
>

Dear list,

I'm working as a multimedia journalist in germany and I'm just beginning to
understand the
vast field of stereo recordings. Two years ago I first stumbled over the
fascinating recordings
possible with the Curt Olsons Rig and its similiar companions and since then I'm
thinking
about building my own stereo rig. Now I had a lucky opportunity and in some days
I will be
the owner of a matched pair omnidirectional Sennheiser MKH-8020.

Any advices, which configuration I should take as starting point? I'm very
impressed by the
actual winged Curt Olson Rig, but also thought about doing a jecklin disc (like
Matt Blaze) or
follow David Michaels Foam Ball Experiments.

http://www.trackseventeen.com/mic_rigs.html
http://www.crypto.com/audio/soundscapes/
http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/sets/stereo-array-testing-mkh3040-at4022

The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior soundscapes.

Hi

Based on my experience I would try a simple parallel boundary array built with a
yoga block and a DIY jecklin disk (I built one in less than two hours). Just to
experiment in a cheap and effective way and to understand differences, pros and
cons "in the field". .... Just my 0.02

Is there a good online reference for commercial flight paths--
specifically a map?

Thanks,  Guy M.


On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Paul Dickinson wrote:

> Some of you may have already come across this online book: "Old
> Growth in the East: A Survey", by Mary Byrd Davis. It is a state-by-
> state assessment of primary and old growth forests in the eastern
> US. Looks like a pretty handy resource for nature recordists. If
> only there were a cross-reference to commercial airline flight paths.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Guy,
I think this is the site I have used before for flight tracks in my area:
http://flightaware.com/live/

John Hartog





--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, Badger <badgerboy@...> wrote:
>
> Is there a good online reference for commercial flight paths--
> specifically a map?
>
> Thanks,  Guy M.
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Paul Dickinson wrote:
>
> > Some of you may have already come across this online book: "Old
> > Growth in the East: A Survey", by Mary Byrd Davis. It is a state-by-
> > state assessment of primary and old growth forests in the eastern
> > US. Looks like a pretty handy resource for nature recordists. If
> > only there were a cross-reference to commercial airline flight paths.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Matthias,
                Rob's PBB2 plans can be found at http://tinyurl.com/2c6xrcm
Also search the list, I think Paul had some good findings with regard to large
vs small diaphragm microphones.

Recently Ive used ears in a blimp and additional structures in the blimp for
pseudo binaural recording, minus the bulk of the head. PRBTFWEB - Pinna related
blimp transfer function with extra bits.

I'd try Rob's PBB2 rig as linked above, I also recall some discussion on a
simplified & lighter version using yoga foam blocks - not sure of the outcome on
that one - lost track.

BR
Mike.




--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Matthias Eberl" <matthias-eberl@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear list,
>
> I'm working as a multimedia journalist in germany and I'm just beginning to
understand the
> vast field of stereo recordings. Two years ago I first stumbled over the
fascinating recordings
> possible with the Curt Olsons Rig and its similiar companions and since then
I'm thinking
> about building my own stereo rig. Now I had a lucky opportunity and in some
days I will be
> the owner of a matched pair omnidirectional Sennheiser MKH-8020.
>
> Any advices, which configuration I should take as starting point? I'm very
impressed by the
> actual winged Curt Olson Rig, but also thought about doing a jecklin disc
(like Matt Blaze) or
> follow David Michaels Foam Ball Experiments.
>
> http://www.trackseventeen.com/mic_rigs.html
> http://www.crypto.com/audio/soundscapes/
> http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/sets/stereo-array-testing-mkh3040-at4022
>
> The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior soundscapes.
>

Hi Guy,

Not sure where in the world you're based, but this may be helpful, if a
little in-depth...

The majority of commercial flights use a system of routes known as "airways"
which run between pre-defined points - some of these are ground-based radio
beacons, and some are simply a designated set of lat/long coordinates.
Aircraft departing from and arriving at a major airport will usually use
Standard Instrument Departures (SIDs) and Standard Terminal Arrival Routes
(STARs) to travel from the airport to the closest point of the airway
network. So an aircraft's route is usually goes: Departure airport > SID >
Airway routing > STAR > Arrival airport.

If you're planning to record beyond about 30 miles from a major airport you
probably don't need to worry about SIDs and STARs and can just check whether
you're going to be under an airway. If you're in the USA this is easy to
check - just go to http://www.skyvector.com, chose "charts" and take a look
at the low and high en-route charts for your area of interest.

If you ARE going to be close to a major airport then you might also want to
see if you're going to be under a SID or STAR. Again this is easy in the USA
- go to http://skyvector.com/airports and track down the page for the
airport in question. Scroll down and you will see a list of SIDs and STARs
(they refer to the STARS as DPs but it's the same thing). Annoyingly the
charts don't show any ground features so you'll have to match up the
lat/long of the route points with a topo map or Google Earth to see exactly
where the route goes. Often different routes are used at different times of
day and this is indicated on the charts.

If you're outside of the USA getting hold of the info may be a bit trickier,
but most countries do make it freely available in a document known as the
Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP) which is usually available online
- for example the UK one is located here:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php.html

Once you have all this info you can then use a site like FlightAware (USA)
or http://www.flightradar24.com (Europe) to find out which of the airways
are most heavily used and at what times of day.

None of this is foolproof - when traffic volumes are low an air traffic
controller will often give pilots more direct routes which doesn't follow
one of the published airways. In addition military aircraft are a law unto
themselves, as are general aviation flights which often fly at low altitude
and navigate by means of visual references like roads and rivers rather than
airways and radio beacons. Also these kinds of flights don't show up on
flight tracking sites, so there's no guarantee you won't find yourself under
a military low-flying route or next to a private airstrip.

Hope this helps!

Tom

On 5 February 2011 18:48, hartogj <hartogj_1999@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Guy,
> I think this is the site I have used before for flight tracks in my area:
> http://flightaware.com/live/
>
> John Hartog
>
>
> --- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com<naturerecordists%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Badger <badgerboy@...> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a good online reference for commercial flight paths--
> > specifically a map?
> >
> > Thanks, Guy M.
> >
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2011, at 7:31 PM, Paul Dickinson wrote:
> >
> > > Some of you may have already come across this online book: "Old
> > > Growth in the East: A Survey", by Mary Byrd Davis. It is a state-by-
> > > state assessment of primary and old growth forests in the eastern
> > > US. Looks like a pretty handy resource for nature recordists. If
> > > only there were a cross-reference to commercial airline flight paths.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior
> soundscapes.

Matthias,

I'm researching various stereo techniques and putting together a guide
to stereo field recording and am amazed by the variety of techniques
used. Your starting point is a pair of excellent omni mics and the
first thing to consider is how to make them directional. One rig is
effectively a dummy head in many disguises which uses phase and time
differences to get directional information, and the wide range of
these devices rather demonstrates that the ideal format has not yet
been achieved. I'm also generalising when I say that binaural
recording like this is best listened to on headphones as you don't get
a consistent phase relatioship from loudspeakers indoors. I'm quoting
the BBC on this and they have transmitted several dramas and
documentaries on dummy head binaural stereo.

My advise would be to experiment and hopefully come up with new
techniques. One thing I will predict is that any rig based on omnis
will finish up with a 360 degree sound object source and give a 180
degree sound image. However with binaural it is sometimes possible to
distinguish between front and back so that may be a challenge to take
up.

The immediate way to make an omni mic directional is to use a baffle,
and the low frequency directional response will be dependant on the
size of the baffle compared with the wavelength. Roughly a 440 Hz
frequency (concert pitch "A") has a 770 mm (30 inch) wavelength so
that's a starting point. It should still work down to 400 mm or so.
Forget parabolas - they are too directional for stereo imaging.

There is some variation on defining the barrier effect, but I used
this professionally for many years. Sound "sticks" to a surface and a
mic, any mic, gets more directional along the surface when the mic is
laid hard against it. You don't need any foam "mice". I would suggest
trying taping the mics either side of a large piece of plywood or
rigid plastic sheet and seeing what that sounds like. Outdoors you'll
need some open cell foam to act as a windgag, but one great advantage
of omnis is that they are much less sensitive to wind and handling
noise.

I've done a little experimenting with two boards at right angles with
a central partition forming a pair of right angled horns. Omni mics
are mounted at the throat of each horn. I got a surprisingly good
stereo separation at mid to high frequencies and produces a good
separation between front and back.

You could also go back to Blumlein's original omni pair and experiment
with the spacing. He never used the so called "blumlein pair" of
fig-8's as he didn't have any. :-) However, his spaced pair principle
produced the first ever stereo and is still used as part of a surround
sound orchestral mix. Have fun. :-)

David

David Brinicombe
North Devon, UK
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce

I don't think anyone has referred to aircraft height. I have trouble
with unscheduled prop planes, helicopters, microlites and the
occasional military jets at 500 feet flying between Exmoor and
Dartmoor which are dramatic but brief, but in the far West of England,
jets at service height are only a faint rumble which can be filtered
out.

David

David Brinicombe
North Devon, UK
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce

Currently I am working on a few sound files and would like to share two which
feature some noisy frogs.  Any feedback would be welcome.

Pacific Chorus Frogs
http://soundcloud.com/blue-marble/hollywood-jungle-serenade-pacific-chorus-frogs\
/s-Ijs0w


Spadefoots
http://soundcloud.com/blue-marble/amor-en-las-cienegas/s-u19MB

Thanks,
Erick
BlueMarble




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi David,

I do realize that nature sound recording comes in many shapes and sizes, so I do
not doubt your claim about filtering, but for natural soundscape recording in
quiet places, I find almost all jet flyovers impossible to filter out without
greatly compromising the recording.

I have not yet looked into the actual altitudes, but considering I usually
record at least 200 miles from the nearest major airport, these flyovers must be
10 thousand feet or higher(just a guess), yet in my recordings they overwhelm
all natural sounds up to 500 kHz and are typically still significantly audible
up 1000 kHz.  There is no filtering that can be done for it, and this is
generally where a nature track ends.

John Hartog


--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Avocet" <brini@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think anyone has referred to aircraft height. I have trouble
> with unscheduled prop planes, helicopters, microlites and the
> occasional military jets at 500 feet flying between Exmoor and
> Dartmoor which are dramatic but brief, but in the far West of England,
> jets at service height are only a faint rumble which can be filtered
> out.
>
> David
>
> David Brinicombe
> North Devon, UK
> Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
>

A dipole configuration is also possible with matched omni's. Although the
diameter of the diaphragm will affect the point (phase) at which you can no
longer use the intensity difference for directionality. Basically the smaller
the better , but it could work with the MKH-8020's. Ive tested this with the
NT45-O capsules and had very limited success compared to 10mm omni electrets,
the NT4's fixed mic angles didnt help matters there. check the link later in
this message..

Basic configuration:
Set both mics facing forwards and right next to each other, rubber band both if
possible but keep the band away from the front. Record your environment, or a
test room / location. -It will sound very mono due to the coincident mics.

In the DAW:

MS matrix, LR -> MS
In-between these add EQ to boost the left channel (side's) low frequency
response, depends on the mic but at least 10-20dB is needed to around 800hz. -
try to match it with the right if possible and tweak for width.
Another MS matrix MS -> LR

This is intensity shuffling, the chain of EQ may also need some pre-EQ for each
mic if they are not exactly matched, or due to recorder amplifiers being a few
tenths of a dB offset.

This will realize a figure 8 from the (L Omni - R Omni) and a omni from the sum
of both. You can then mix various amounts of the side to set the width of the
recording similar to an MS mic, yet your starting with a very quiet pair of
excellent omni's. -The only downside is that the coverage pattern will be
focused towards the front and perhaps the side coverage will not be as good as a
dedicated figure 8 due to the on axis vs off axis response difference of the
omni's.

My experiment using the NT4 and NT45-O capsules can be found here:-
http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=1429

And also related using small electrets - this page also shows the EQ needed.
http://www.urlme.net/blog/?p=1277

BR
Mike.






--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Avocet" <brini@...> wrote:
>
> > The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior
> > soundscapes.
>
> Matthias,
>
> I'm researching various stereo techniques and putting together a guide
> to stereo field recording and am amazed by the variety of techniques
> used. Your starting point is a pair of excellent omni mics and the
> first thing to consider is how to make them directional. One rig is
> effectively a dummy head in many disguises which uses phase and time
> differences to get directional information, and the wide range of
> these devices rather demonstrates that the ideal format has not yet
> been achieved. I'm also generalising when I say that binaural
> recording like this is best listened to on headphones as you don't get
> a consistent phase relatioship from loudspeakers indoors. I'm quoting
> the BBC on this and they have transmitted several dramas and
> documentaries on dummy head binaural stereo.
>
> My advise would be to experiment and hopefully come up with new
> techniques. One thing I will predict is that any rig based on omnis
> will finish up with a 360 degree sound object source and give a 180
> degree sound image. However with binaural it is sometimes possible to
> distinguish between front and back so that may be a challenge to take
> up.
>
> The immediate way to make an omni mic directional is to use a baffle,
> and the low frequency directional response will be dependant on the
> size of the baffle compared with the wavelength. Roughly a 440 Hz
> frequency (concert pitch "A") has a 770 mm (30 inch) wavelength so
> that's a starting point. It should still work down to 400 mm or so.
> Forget parabolas - they are too directional for stereo imaging.
>
> There is some variation on defining the barrier effect, but I used
> this professionally for many years. Sound "sticks" to a surface and a
> mic, any mic, gets more directional along the surface when the mic is
> laid hard against it. You don't need any foam "mice". I would suggest
> trying taping the mics either side of a large piece of plywood or
> rigid plastic sheet and seeing what that sounds like. Outdoors you'll
> need some open cell foam to act as a windgag, but one great advantage
> of omnis is that they are much less sensitive to wind and handling
> noise.
>
> I've done a little experimenting with two boards at right angles with
> a central partition forming a pair of right angled horns. Omni mics
> are mounted at the throat of each horn. I got a surprisingly good
> stereo separation at mid to high frequencies and produces a good
> separation between front and back.
>
> You could also go back to Blumlein's original omni pair and experiment
> with the spacing. He never used the so called "blumlein pair" of
> fig-8's as he didn't have any. :-) However, his spaced pair principle
> produced the first ever stereo and is still used as part of a surround
> sound orchestral mix. Have fun. :-)
>
> David
>
> David Brinicombe
> North Devon, UK
> Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
>

Hi Matthias,

I'd love to hear a pair of MKH-8020s in a proper "winged" array. If
you go that route, would you mind posting a sample recording for us?

Regarding the many different microphone mounting approaches available,
I'd recommend trying those that interest you most and listening
carefully to them. It may take a while, but over time you'll probably
find that differences that seem extremely subtle and confusing at
first will slowly become more apparent to you. And you'll probably
begin to favor one approach over the others.

A few months ago, I finally broke down and built a Jeklin rig for some
indoor recordings that I frequently do. Nice enough stereo image, but
it didn't come close to the clarity, detail and spacial definition
I've come to enjoy from my winged arrays.

The PBB2 approach that Mike Rooke suggested is a worthy alternative
you should consider. These rigs tend to deliver super-clean imaging
and detail. And because the mic capsules are flush to the boundaries,
they tend to "pull in" distant sounds a bit more effectively than the
parallel boundary or winged arrays.

Also keep in mind that although "sound imaging" is the biggest and
most decisive factor, isn't the only one to consider. Issues like
ruggedness, mobility, ease of construction, ease of wind protection,
etc. are also important -- at least to me.

Curt Olson

Matthias Eberl wrote:

> Dear list,
>
> I'm working as a multimedia journalist in germany and I'm just
> beginning to understand the vast field of stereo recordings. Two
> years ago I first stumbled over the fascinating recordings possible
> with the Curt Olsons Rig and its similiar companions and since then
> I'm thinking about building my own stereo rig. Now I had a lucky
> opportunity and in some days I will be the owner of a matched pair
> omnidirectional Sennheiser MKH-8020.
>
> Any advices, which configuration I should take as starting point?
> I'm very impressed by th actual winged Curt Olson Rig, but also
> thought about doing a jecklin disc (like Matt Blaze) or follow David
> Michaels Foam Ball Experiments.
>
> http://www.trackseventeen.com/mic_rigs.html
> http://www.crypto.com/audio/soundscapes/
> http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/sets/stereo-array-testing-mkh3040-
> at4022
>
> The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior
> soundscapes.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. It helped me a lot - first of all I
understood that I
should not put too much effort in the first try but rather do some quick 'n'
dirty experiments
and to learn hearing the subtle differences.

So I will skip the jecklin disc for the first try, also because it is too large
to transport
convenient in a city. I enjoyed reading about the dipole experiments, but for
the first and for
the learning I prefer having instant stereo at the location instead of adding it
during post
processing which definitly requires a lot more audio engineering skills than the
average
jounrnalist has. Binaural recordings are very impressive (I did some already
with cheap in-
ear-mics), but as multimedia stories are consumed mainly with speakers, I'm
sadly reduced
to 180 degree soundscapes.

So I will go for some winged rig first and soon after that do a PBB2 for
comparing. The yoga
block looks interesting and I thought about using such a block between the
barriers of the
Winged Olson Rig to make it less heavy.

A last advice needed for the wind protection: I have 2qm of artificial fur (from
a teddy bear
shop - but nearly the same like original rycote material). Is it better to cover
the whole rig with
the fur or only the heads of the microphones?

I will keep you updated with my experiments and of course I will provide the
samples here.

Matthias



Am 6 Feb 2011 um 9:05 hat Curt Olson geschrieben:

>
>
> Hi Matthias,
>
> I'd love to hear a pair of MKH-8020s in a proper "winged" array. If
> you go that route, would you mind posting a sample recording for us?
>
> Regarding the many different microphone mounting approaches available,
> I'd recommend trying those that interest you most and listening
> carefully to them. It may take a while, but over time you'll probably
> find that differences that seem extremely subtle and confusing at
> first will slowly become more apparent to you. And you'll probably
> begin to favor one approach over the others.
>
> A few months ago, I finally broke down and built a Jeklin rig for some
> indoor recordings that I frequently do. Nice enough stereo image, but
> it didn't come close to the clarity, detail and spacial definition
> I've come to enjoy from my winged arrays.
>
> The PBB2 approach that Mike Rooke suggested is a worthy alternative
> you should consider. These rigs tend to deliver super-clean imaging
> and detail. And because the mic capsules are flush to the boundaries,
> they tend to "pull in" distant sounds a bit more effectively than the
> parallel boundary or winged arrays.
>
> Also keep in mind that although "sound imaging" is the biggest and
> most decisive factor, isn't the only one to consider. Issues like
> ruggedness, mobility, ease of construction, ease of wind protection,
> etc. are also important -- at least to me.
>
> Curt Olson
>
> Matthias Eberl wrote:
>
> > Dear list,
> >
> > I'm working as a multimedia journalist in germany and I'm just
> > beginning to understand the vast field of stereo recordings. Two
> > years ago I first stumbled over the fascinating recordings possible
> > with the Curt Olsons Rig and its similiar companions and since then
> > I'm thinking about building my own stereo rig. Now I had a lucky
> > opportunity and in some days I will be the owner of a matched pair
> > omnidirectional Sennheiser MKH-8020.
> >
> > Any advices, which configuration I should take as starting point?
> > I'm very impressed by th actual winged Curt Olson Rig, but also
> > thought about doing a jecklin disc (like Matt Blaze) or follow David
> > Michaels Foam Ball Experiments.
> >
> > http://www.trackseventeen.com/mic_rigs.html
> > http://www.crypto.com/audio/soundscapes/
> > http://soundcloud.com/dmichael/sets/stereo-array-testing-mkh3040-
> > at4022
> >
> > The rig will mainly be used for recording urban and interior
> > soundscapes.
>
>
>

> I have not yet looked into the actual altitudes, but considering I
> usually record at least 200 miles from the nearest major airport,
> these flyovers must be 10 thousand feet or higher(just a guess),

John,

Jets are at a cruising height over me at about 35,000ft or about 10
kilometers. I've got a set of graphs of air absorption at various
frequencies and it comes out as around -10dbs below 200Hz but -70 dBs
down at 1KHz. That's in addition to the drop due to distance. The
distance drop from 100 metres to 10km is another 40dB, say 100
dBA -40dB -70dB at 1KHz. The audibility limit happens somewhere in
between 200 Hz and 1KHz.

That's the theory - the practice is that the jet noise is well down at
bird tweeting frequencies and cars a mile away are more of a problem
here.

I'm fortunate to be mostly under transatlantic flights, but as I said
height is crucial to jet noise.

Concordes used to go subsonic over the Bristol Channel but
occasionally caused a sonic boom which would spook all the pheasants
in the area in unison. :-)

David

David Brinicombe
North Devon, UK
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce

> A last advice needed for the wind protection: I have 2qm of
> artificial fur (from a teddy bear
shop - but nearly the same like original rycote material).

Matthias,

Check out any material by putting it over your head on and off. You
want to reduce the bass frequencies slightly but not the top end.

I invented the original wind sock for the BBC and Rycote took it over,
before using artificial fur. I used brushed acrylan as used for
kiddies romper soits. It's knitted underneath and fluffy on top.

>Is it better to cover the whole rig with
the fur or only the heads of the microphones?

All the way around. Wind doesn't make a noise till it hits something.
Also if there is any acoustic difference through the fabric, it has
less effect. You want to present as rounded a surface to the wind as
possible whatever direction it is coming from.

The reason that artificial fur works is that it parts the wind
smoothly without causing ripples close the mic. Floppy mounts in
particular cause a lot of turbulence and hence wind noise.

David

David Brinicombe
North Devon, UK
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce

On 07/02/2011, at 6:14 AM, Avocet wrote:

> That's the theory - the practice is that the jet noise is well down at
> bird tweeting frequencies and cars a mile away are more of a problem
> here.

I was talking to Andrew Skeoch, who has recently returned from European
recording trip, and he made the observation that the recordings he made in UK
has little content below 1khz, except for the Wood pigeon(?). He played me a
recording he was cleaning up, it was pretty clear that there was little
happening apart from the pigeon in this range allowing for pretty drastic noise
removal measures to be applied below 1khz.  Bird song in Australia, and quite
probably in other regions too, has more content in the sub 1khz region that
makes cleaning up aircraft noise in recordings a more difficult proposition.

Any at very least it's worth bearing in mind that biophony is dependant on
location and techniques which might work well for recordings made in one
location aren't necessarily universally applicable.

cheers
Paul

Hi David,
Thank you for your response. I see I wrote kHz where I meant Hz -oops!
I notice the FlightAware website provides altitude information for flights, and
from that it looks like most jet flights over Oregon for trips longer than a few
hundred miles are cruising above 30 thousand feet (or ~10 kilometers).

Your description of the audibility limit makes sense to me, from what I have
observed.

For most uses, I reject any material with such noise intrusions - especially if
audible anywhere between 100 Hz and 10 kHz.

John Hartog

--- In naturerecordists@yahoogroups.com, "Avocet" <brini@...> wrote:
>
> > I have not yet looked into the actual altitudes, but considering I
> > usually record at least 200 miles from the nearest major airport,
> > these flyovers must be 10 thousand feet or higher(just a guess),
>
> John,
>
> Jets are at a cruising height over me at about 35,000ft or about 10
> kilometers. I've got a set of graphs of air absorption at various
> frequencies and it comes out as around -10dbs below 200Hz but -70 dBs
> down at 1KHz. That's in addition to the drop due to distance. The
> distance drop from 100 metres to 10km is another 40dB, say 100
> dBA -40dB -70dB at 1KHz. The audibility limit happens somewhere in
> between 200 Hz and 1KHz.
>
> That's the theory - the practice is that the jet noise is well down at
> bird tweeting frequencies and cars a mile away are more of a problem
> here.
>
> I'm fortunate to be mostly under transatlantic flights, but as I said
> height is crucial to jet noise.
>
> Concordes used to go subsonic over the Bristol Channel but
> occasionally caused a sonic boom which would spook all the pheasants
> in the area in unison. :-)
>
> David
>
> David Brinicombe
> North Devon, UK
> Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
>