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#11810 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Wed Jun 1, 2011 7:00 pm
Subject: Re: Laxdaela Saga 34 part 3 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> Þá mælti Þórður: "Hvort ræður þú mér að eg segi skilið við
> Auði hér á þingi eða í héraði og geri eg það við fleiri
> manna ráð því að menn eru skapstórir þeir er sér mun þykja
> misboðið í þessu?"

> Thord then said: "Do you advise me that I declare a
> separation from Aud here at the Thing or in the country
> and I take counsel with more men because men are
> proud-minded, they who themselves will be thought to be
> offended at this?" (Z. gøra 2 - g. ráð með e-m, to take
> counsel with, advise one)

> Then Thord spoke, “Do you advise me to declare (myself)
> divorced with Aud here at (the) Thing or in (the) district
> and I do it with more advice of people because men are
> proudminded those who will feel themselves offended by
> this?”

> Then Þórðr spoke: „Do you advise me that I announce the
> separation (ie declare-myself separated) from Auðr here at
> (the) Thing or in (the) district and (that) I do that with
> (the) advice of more persons (men), because people (men)
> are proudminded, those who will seem to themselves (ie
> feel) offended (see misbjóða, Z1) by this?“

I think that this is <ráð> 'consent, will, wish, agreement'
(Z5): 'with the consent of more people', i.e., with greater
support.

> Guðrún svarar stundu síðar: "Aftans bíður óframs sök."

> Gudrun answers a while later: "A laggard's suit bides till
> even." (CV aptan - aptans bíðr óframs sök, a laggard's
> suit bides till even (a proverb).)

> Gudrun answers a little later, “(He who) waits for
> evening, shyly seeks.”

> Guðrún answers a while later: „A reason (sök, Z4) of
> reticence (cowardice, timidity, lack of courage, úframr)
> waits (ie puts things off) until evening (ie too late,
> aptann).“

Nom. sing. <sök> is the subject of <bíðr>, and the adjective
<óframr> is functioning as a noun: 'Unforward's suit waits
till evening'.

> ... sem karlkonur.

Apparently this is the only instance of word <karlkona> in
the extant corpus.  CV suggests that it's a faulty reading
for <karlmenn>, 'like men (= male persons)'.  If it is
correct, I suspect that it just means something like 'a
woman who dresses (and acts?) in ways considered appropriate
only for men', though I suppose that there could also be
sexual implications.

> ... því að Þórði var óspart um hversu fénu var skipt.

> ... because Thord was un-sparing (i.e., generous)
> concerning how the property was divided.

> ... because Thord was unsparing regarding how the money
> was divided.

> ... because (it) was unsparing from Þórðr about how (it)
> was divided in the-property (ie Þórðr was generous in
> dividing up the property).

This is impersonal <vera>, 'Þórð was unsparing' (Z8 s.v.
<vera>).  <Skipta> takes a dative object, here <fénu>, so it
really is 'about how the property was divided'.

> Hann kvað það jafnan vera sem líklegt var því að háls einn
> var á milli seljanna.

> He stated that (it) is always as might be expected because
> one ridge was between the sheds. (Z. líkliga 1 - sem -ligt
> var, as might be expected)

> He said it always to be as likely was because one ridge
> was between the sheilings

> He declared that to be constantly as was (to be) expected
> because a lone ridge was (ie stood) between (the)
> shielings.

I'm with Alan here: since <einn> follows <háls>, I read it
as 'only one'.

> Þá mælti Auður: "Þú skalt hitta í dag smalamann frá Laugum
> og máttu segja mér hvað manna er að veturhúsum eða í seli
> og ræð allt vingjarnlega til Þórðar sem þú átt að gera."

> Then Aud said: "You will meet today(the) shepherd from
> Laugum and you can tell me what men who (go) to
> winter-house or in the shed and tell all kindly to Thord
> as you have to do."

> Then Aud spoke, “You shall meet a shepherd today from
> Laugar and you can tell me what man is at (the) winter
> house or in (the) sheiling and speak in a very friendly
> manner about Thord as you are obliged to do.”

> Then Auðr spoke: “You shall meet today (the) shepherd from
> Laugar and you must say to me what (manner, by way) of
> men(gen plural) is (are) at (the) winter-houses (plural)
> or in (the) shieling and speak completely amicably towards
> (ie about) Þórðr as you are obliged to do.”

I'll go with 'you can tell me' for <máttu segja mér>.  Note
that <ræð> is an imperative: it isn't a parallel
construction 'you can tell me ... and (you can) speak ...',
but rather 'you can tell ..., and be sure to speak ...'.

Brian

#11811 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2011 11:07 am
Subject: Star Wars XXVII end
fredgrace
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“Engi vǭpn… en yfrit margar gersimar?” segir Tarkinn ok hóf upp brún,
“Ja,
ek ætla at menninir møni gleðjask í því at fyrsta prófit hersins
Dauðastjǫrnu sé svá auðvellilegt, ok møni enn svá auðgask þá. En ef
þú
nefnir borg þá, es heldr hermǫnnum þeim es mennina Falfaðins prófaði í
raun
ok veru ok heiðri, þá monum vér sigla þagat í staðinn Aldiranborgar.”

En Leia þagði.

“Mér leiðisk þat at spyrja eptir þessu sama máli, ok fyr því es þetta
it
síðasta sinn,” segir Tarkinn Stórmofsjarl, “Hvar es ey sú, þar es þeir
sem
standa í mot Falfaðni konungi eru vanir at samnask?”

“Á Dantúíney,” segir Leia, “Þeir eru á Dantúíney á Hjaltlandi.”

“Einfald vas þat, Veiðr,” kvað Tarkinn, “Hon talaði jafnvel ǭn
píning. Sendu
mennina í land.”

“Hvat?” kvað Leia konungsdóttir.

“Oflega trúmikil ertu, Leia konungsdóttir,” segir Tarkinn, “Sem
Aldiranmenn
eru vanir. En Dantúíney es sjaldheyrð ok liggr of fjarri þeim borgum es vér
vildum kúga. En snart monum vér fœra víkingum órum þagat.”

Lýkr nú þessi stefnu, ok eptir liðinn lítinn tíma dreif svá mikill herr
á
landit at øngum þóttisk slík ódœmi fyrr sén hafa, ok vas svá mikill
gnýr af
vápnagangi ok hestgneggi ok hvellum luðrblæstri at jǫrðin sjǭlf skalf, ok
kleifarnar svǫruðu með hræðilega dvergmála. Þeir stefna þá til
Aldiranborgar, eyða ok brenna ok gøra allt vǭnt es þeir mǭttu, ok drepa
bæði
konur ok karla, naut ok sauði, ok þeir svá brenndu at þar stóð etki kot
eptir.


Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11812 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2011 7:56 pm
Subject: Star Wars XXVIII end - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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“Engi vǭpn… en yfrit margar gersimar?” segir Tarkinn ok hóf upp brún,
“Ja,
ek ætla at menninir
“No weapons … but enough very great treasures?” says Tarkinn and raised
his
eyebrows, “Yes, I expect that the men
møni gleðjask í því at fyrsta prófit hersins Dauðastjǫrnu sé svá
auðvellilegt, ok møni enn svá
will become happy  at (it) because (the) first test of Deathstar’s army be
so easy, and will yet so
auðgask þá. En ef þú nefnir borg þá, es heldr hermǫnnum þeim es mennina
Falfaðins prófaði í
enrich them.  But if you name that town which holds those warriors who
tested Palpatines men in
raun ok veru ok heiðri, þá monum vér sigla þagat í staðinn
Aldiranborgar.”
experience and men?? and honour, then we will sail thither instead of
Aldiran-town.”
En Leia þagði.
But Leia was silent.
“Mér leiðisk þat at spyrja eptir þessu sama máli, ok fyr því es þetta
it
síðasta sinn,” segir Tarkinn
“I am tired of asking for the same matter, and for this reason is this the
last time,” says Tarkinn
Stórmofsjarl, “Hvar es ey sú, þar es þeir sem standa í mot Falfaðni
konungi
eru vanir at samnask?”
Earl Stormof, “Where is that island, where those who stand against King
Palpatine are accustomed to assemble?”

“Á Dantúíney,” segir Leia, “Þeir eru á Dantúíney á Hjaltlandi.”
“At Dantuine Island,” says Leia, “They are at Dantuine Island in
Hjaltland.”

“Einfald vas þat, Veiðr,” kvað Tarkinn, “Hon talaði jafnvel ǭn
píning. Sendu
mennina í land.”
“That was simple, Vader,” said Tarkinn, “She spoke just as well without
torture.  Send the men on land.”

“Hvat?” kvað Leia konungsdóttir.
“What?” said Leia daughter of the king.

“Oflega trúmikil ertu, Leia konungsdóttir,” segir Tarkinn, “Sem
Aldiranmenn
eru vanir. En
“You are too trusting, Leia daughter of the king,” says Tarkinn, “As
Aldiran
people are accustomed (to being).  But

Dantúíney es sjaldheyrð ok liggr of fjarri þeim borgum es vér vildum kúga.
En snart monum vér fœra víkingum órum þagat.”
Dantuine Island is seldom heard of and lies too far from those towns which
we want to tyrannize.  But soon we will send Viking arrows thither.”

Lýkr nú þessi stefnu, ok eptir liðinn lítinn tíma dreif svá mikill herr
á
landit at øngum þóttisk slík
Now ends this summons and after a little time passed, so great a force
rushed on land that none  thought himself

ódœmi fyrr sén hafa, ok vas svá mikill gnýr af vápnagangi ok hestgneggi ok
hvellum luðrblæstri
to have seen such an enormity before and (the) din of weapons and neighing
of horses and shrill blowing of trumpets  was so great

at jǫrðin sjǭlf skalf, ok kleifarnar svǫruðu með hræðilega dvergmála.
Þeir
stefna þá til
that the earth itself shook and the cliffs answered with fearsome echos.
They aimed then for

Aldiranborgar, eyða ok brenna ok gøra allt vǭnt es þeir mǭttu, ok drepa
bæði
konur ok karla,
Aldiran town, to destroy and to burn and do all ?? which they could and to
kill both women and men,

naut ok sauði, ok þeir svá brenndu at þar stóð etki kot eptir.
cattle and sheep and they burnt so (much) that not (even) a hut stood
afterwards.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11813 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2011 9:33 pm
Subject: Star Wars XXVIII end - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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"Hvat?" kva Leia konungsdttir.
"What?" said Princess Leia?

"Oflega trmikil ertu, Leia konungsdttir," segir Tarkinn, "Sem Aldiranmenn eru
vanir.
"(Oflega?) believing you are, Princess Leia," says Tarkin, "As people of Aldiran
are wont.

En Dantney es sjaldheyr ok liggr of fjarri eim borgum es vr vildum kga.
But Dantin Island is seldom heard about and lies far off of the cities which we
want (to) tyrannize.

En snart monum vr fra vkingum rum agat."
But soon we will convey our Vikings there."

Lkr n essi stefnu, ok eptir liinn ltinn tma dreif sv mikill herr  landit
at ngum ttisk slk dmi fyrr sn hafa, ok vas sv mikill gnr af vpnagangi
ok hestgneggi ok hvellum lurblstri at jǫrin sjǭlf skalf, ok
kleifarnar svǫruu me hrilega dvergmla.
This appointed meeting ends now, and after little time passed so many soldiers
dispersed to the land that no one thought such un-proof (?) previously has seen,
and (there) was such a great clash of a shower of weapons and din of horsemen
and shrill bellow noise (?) that the earth itself shook, and the cliffs answered
(?) with dreadful echo.

eir stefna  til Aldiranborgar, eya ok brenna ok gra allt vǭnt es eir
mǭttu, ok drepa bi konur ok karla, naut ok saui, ok eir sv brenndu at
ar st etki kot eptir.
They stopped then at Aldiran City, destroyed and burned and did all wont (?)
which they were able, and slayed both women and men, cattle and sheep, and they
burned so that no cottage stood there after.

#11814 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2011 12:35 am
Subject: Re: Star Wars XXVIII end - - Grace's translation
bmscotttg
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> En ef þú nefnir borg þá, es heldr hermǫnnum þeim es
> mennina Falfaðins prófaði í raun ok veru ok heiðri, ...

> But if you name that town which holds those warriors who
> tested Palpatines men in experience and men?? and honour,
> ...

I had to do some digging here.  <Raun> here is 'reality
(Z6), and <veru> is the oblique singular of a feminine weak
noun <vera> that, like the one glossed 'stay, sojourn' by
Zoëga, must derive from the verb <vera> (older <vesa>) but
in this case mean something like 'existence'.  I've not
found the expression <í raun ok veru> in any ON text, but <í
raun og veru> is a modern idiom meaning 'in reality,
really', and that seems to be what's intended here: 'who
really and in honor tested P's men'.

> “Á Dantúíney,” segir Leia, “Þeir eru á Dantúíney á
> Hjaltlandi.”

> “At Dantuine Island,” says Leia, “They are at Dantuine
> Island in Hjaltland.”

Better: 'in the Shetlands'.

> En Dantúíney es sjaldheyrð ok liggr of fjarri þeim borgum
> es vér vildum kúga.

> But Dantin Island is seldom heard about and lies far off
> of the cities which we want (to) tyrannize.

> But Dantuine Island is seldom heard of and lies too far
> from those towns which we want to tyrannize.

Here I read <kúga> as 'to cow, to intimidate'; that seems to
fit the context a little better.

> En snart monum vér fœra víkingum órum þagat.”
> But soon we will convey our Vikings there."
> But soon we will send Viking arrows thither.”

Rob's right about <víkingum órum>; 'arrows' in the dative
would be <ǫrum>, and it's not clear that the noun <víkingr>
can be used as an adjective.

> Lýkr nú þessi stefnu, ok eptir liðinn lítinn tíma dreif
> svá mikill herr á landit at øngum þóttisk slík ódœmi fyrr
> sén hafa, ok vas svá mikill gnýr af vápnagangi ok
> hestgneggi ok hvellum luðrblæstri at jǫrðin sjǭlf skalf,
> ok kleifarnar svǫruðu með hræðilega dvergmála.

> This appointed meeting ends now, and after little time
> passed so many soldiers dispersed to the land that no one
> thought such un-proof (?) previously has seen, and (there)
> was such a great clash of a shower of weapons and din of
> horsemen and shrill bellow noise (?) that the earth itself
> shook, and the cliffs answered (?) with dreadful echo.

> Now ends this summons and after a little time passed, so
> great a force rushed on land that none thought himself to
> have seen such an enormity before and (the) din of weapons
> and neighing of horses and shrill blowing of trumpets was
> so great that the earth itself shook and the cliffs
> answered with fearsome echos.

These comments are for Rob, to expand on what can be
inferred from Grace's translation.

<Ódœmi> (as <údœmi>) has an entry in Z.: it's a neuter
plural meaning 'enormity, monstrous thing'.

<Mikill> and <herr> are both singular: 'so large a troop',
'so great an army', or the like, as Grace has it.  The verb
<dreif> isn't from <dreifa>: it's the 3rd sing. past tense
of <drífa>.  You know that it has to be 3rd sing., since the
subject is <herr>.  <Dreifa> is a weak verb and would form
<dreifir> (present) and <dreifði> (past), not <dreif>.

In the context of <gnýr> 'din' it makes better sense to read
<vápnagangr> as 'clash of weapons'.

<Hestgneggi> is the dative of <hestgnegg> 'horse-neighing';
it doesn't appear to be in Z or CV, but the similar
<hestagneggjan> is, and so is <gnegg>.  <Luðrblæstri>
should, so far as I can tell, be <lúðrblæstri>, dative of
<lúðrblástr> 'blowing of trumpets'.  (The <æ> is from front
mutation by the <-i>.)

The <ǫ> in <svǫruðu> is the result of labial umlaut of <a>.

> Þeir stefna þá til Aldiranborgar, eyða ok brenna ok gøra
> allt vǭnt es þeir mǭttu, ok drepa bæði konur ok karla,
> naut ok sauði, ok þeir svá brenndu at þar stóð etki kot
> eptir.

> They stopped then at Aldiran City, destroyed and burned
> and did all wont (?) which they were able, and slayed both
> women and men, cattle and sheep, and they burned so that
> no cottage stood there after.

> They aimed then for Aldiran town, to destroy and to burn
> and do all ?? which they could and to kill both women and
> men, cattle and sheep and they burnt so (much) that not
> (even) a hut stood afterwards.

<Vǭnt> is the neuter accusative singular of <vándr> 'bad':
<ǭ> is the original labial mutation of <á>, but by 1250 or
so it was simply written <á>.  In general you can probably
mentally substitute <á> for <ǭ> without going wrong very
often.  (The combination <vá> subsequently changed to <vo>,
so the modern adjective is <vondur>.)

Brian

#11815 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:47 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 34 part 4
fredgrace
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Sveinninn heitir a gera svo sem hn mlti. En um kveldi er smalamaur kom
heim spyr Auur tinda.
Smalamaurinn svarar: "Spurt hefi eg au tindi er r munu ykja g a n
er breitt hvluglf milli rma eirra rar og Gurnar v a hn er 
seli en hann heljast  sklasm og eru eir svfur tveir a veturhsum."
"Vel hefir  njsna," segir hn, "og haf sla hesta tvo er menn fara a
sofa."
Smalasveinn geri sem hn bau og nokkuru fyrir slarfall st Auur  bak og
var hn  a vsu  brkum. Smalasveinn rei rum hesti og gat varla fylgt
henni, svo kni hn fast reiina. Hn rei suur yfir Slingsdalsheii og
nam eigi staar fyrr en undir tngari a Laugum.  st hn af baki en ba
smalasveininn gta hestanna mean hn gengi til hss. Auur gekk a durum og
var opin hur. Hn gekk til eldhss og a lokrekkju eirri er rur l  og
svaf. Var hurin fallin aftur en eigi lokan fyrir. Hn gekk  lokrekkjuna en
rur svaf og horfi  loft upp.  vakti Auur r en hann snerist 
hliina er hann s a maur var kominn. Hn br  saxi og lagi  ri og
veitti honum verka mikla og kom  hndina hgri. Var hann sr  bum
geirvrtum. Svo lagi hn til fast a saxi nam  beinum staar. San gekk
Auur brott og til hests og hljp  bak og rei heim eftir a. rur vildi
upp spretta er hann fkk verkann og var a ekki v a hann mddi
blrs. Vi etta vaknai svfur og spyr hva ttt vri en rur kvast
orinn fyrir verkum nokkurum. svfur spyr ef hann vissi hver  honum hefi
unni og st upp og batt um sr hans. rur kvast tla a a hefi Auur
gert. svfur bau a ra eftir henni, kva hana fmenna til mundu hafa
fari og vri henni skapa vti. rur kva a fjarri skyldu fara, sagi
hana slkt hafa a gert sem hn tti.
Auur kom heim  slarupprs og spuru eir brur hennar hvert hn hefi
fari. Auur kvast fari hafa til Lauga og sagi eim hva til tinda
hafi gerst  frum hennar. eir ltu vel yfir og kvu of lti mundu a
ori. rur l lengi  srum og greru vel bringusrin en s hndin var
honum hvergi betri til taks en ur. Kyrrt var n um veturinn.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11816 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:38 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 34 part 4 - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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Sveinninn heitir að gera svo sem hún mælti. En um kveldið er smalamaður kom
heim spyr Auður tíðinda.
The boy promises to do as she said.  But during the evening when (the)
shepherd came home, Aud asks the news.

Smalamaðurinn svarar: "Spurt hefi eg þau tíðindi er þér munu þykja góð
að nú
er breitt hvílugólf
The shepherd answers, “I have asked the news which to you will seem good
that now is a wide bedcloset

milli rúma þeirra Þórðar og Guðrúnar því að hún er í seli en hann
heljast á
skálasmíð og eru þeir
between their rooms, Thord’s and Gudruns, because she is in (the) sheiling,
but he works hard at building a shed and they

Ósvífur tveir að veturhúsum."
two , Osvif and (Thord), are in the winterhouse.”

"Vel hefir þú njósnað," segir hún, "og haf söðlað hesta tvo er menn fara
að
sofa."
“You have spied well,” says she, “and have two horses saddled when men go
to
sleep.”

Smalasveinn gerði sem hún bauð og nokkuru fyrir sólarfall sté Auður á bak
og
var hún þá að vísu
(The) shepherd did as she bade (him) and somewhat before sundown, Aud
mounted and she was then certainly

í brókum. Smalasveinn reið öðrum hesti og gat varla fylgt henni, svo
knúði
hún fast reiðina. Hún
in breeches.  (The) shepherd boy rode (the) other horse and was scarcely
able to follow her, so hard did she urge on the riding.  She

reið suður yfir Sælingsdalsheiði og nam eigi staðar fyrr en undir
túngarði
að Laugum. Þá sté hún
rode south over Sheilings Dale Heath and did not stop before (she was)
beneath the field gate at Laugar.  The she dismounted

af baki en bað smalasveininn gæta hestanna meðan hún gengi til húss. Auður
gekk að durum og
and bade the shepherd boy to take care of the horses while she went to (the)
house.  Aud went  the door and

var opin hurð. Hún gekk til eldhúss og að lokrekkju þeirri er Þórður lá
í og
svaf. Var hurðin fallin
(the) door was open.  She went to the fire house and to their locked bed
closet where Thord lay and slept.  (The) door was fallen

aftur en eigi lokan fyrir. Hún gekk í lokrekkjuna en Þórður svaf og horfði
í
loft upp. Þá vakti
back and not bolted.  She went into the locked bed closet but Thord slept
and (she) got up into (it).  Then Aud woke

Auður Þórð en hann snerist á hliðina er hann sá að maður var kominn.
Hún brá
þá saxi og lagði á
Thord and he turned himself on his side when he saw that a man was come.
She drew then the short sword and laid into

Þórði og veitti honum áverka mikla og kom á höndina hægri. Varð hann
sár á
báðum geirvörtum.
Thord and gave him serious injuries and (it) came on the right hand.  He
became wounded on both nipples.

Svo lagði hún til fast að saxið nam í beðinum staðar. Síðan gekk Auður
brott
og til hests og hljóp
She hard did she thrust that the short sword stopped in the bed board.
Afterwards Aud went away and to (the) horse and leaped

á bak og reið heim eftir það. Þórður vildi upp spretta er hann fékk
áverkann
og varð það ekki því
on (its) back and rode home after that.  Thord wanted to leap up when he
suffered the wounds and it didn’t happen because

að hann mæddi blóðrás. Við þetta vaknaði Ósvífur og spyr hvað títt
væri en
Þórður kvaðst orðinn
he was weakened by hemmorage.  With that Osvif awakened and asks what had
happened and Thord said

fyrir áverkum nokkurum. Ósvífur spyr ef hann vissi hver á honum hefði
unnið
og stóð upp og
some injury happened previously.  Osvif asks if he knew who had given him
(the wounds) and stood up and

batt um sár hans. Þórður kvaðst ætla að það hefði Auður gert.
Ósvífur bauð
að ríða eftir henni,
bound up his wound.  Thord said he expected that Aud had done it.  Osvif
offered to ride after her

kvað hana fámenna til mundu hafa farið og væri henni skapað víti.
Þórður
kvað það fjarri skyldu
said few men would have gone with her and (there) would be punishment for
her.  Thord said few??

fara, sagði hana slíkt hafa að gert sem hún átti.
should go, said of her to have done such as she was obliged to.`

Auður kom heim í sólarupprás og spurðu þeir bræður hennar hvert hún
hefði
farið. Auður kvaðst
Aud came home at sunrise and those brothers asked her where she had gone.
Aud said of herself to

farið hafa til Lauga og sagði þeim hvað til tíðinda hafði gerst í förum
hennar. Þeir létu vel yfir og
have gone to Laugar and told them what tidings had happened on her journey.
They approved and

kváðu of lítið mundu að orðið. Þórður lá lengi í sárum og greru vel
bringusárin en sú höndin
said too little would have happened.  Thord lay a long time with his wounds
and the wound in his chest grew well but that hand

varð honum hvergi betri til taks en áður. Kyrrt var nú um veturinn.
never was better for gripping?? as before.  It was quiet now during the
winter.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11817 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:19 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 34 part 4 - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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Sveinninn heitir a gera svo sem hn mlti.
The boy promised to do as she so said.

En um kveldi er smalamaur kom heim spyr Auur tinda.
And during the evening when (the) shepherd came home, Aud asks for news.

Smalamaurinn svarar: "Spurt hefi eg au tindi er r munu ykja g a n er
breitt hvluglf milli rma eirra rar og Gurnar v a hn er  seli en
hann heljast  sklasm og eru eir svfur tveir a veturhsum."
The shepherd answers: "I have found out the news that you will think good that
now is a broad bed closet between their, Thord's and Gudrun's, rooms so that she
is in a shed and he works hard at shed building and they two, Osvif (and Gudrun)
are at the winter house."

"Vel hefir  njsna," segir hn, "og haf sla hesta tvo er menn fara a
sofa."
"You have spied well," she says, "and have two horses saddled when men go to
sleep."

Smalasveinn geri sem hn bau og nokkuru fyrir slarfall st Auur  bak og var
hn  a vsu  brkum.
(The) shepherd did as she asked and somewhat before sunset Aud mounted her horse
and she was then certainly wearing breeches.   (Z. stga 1 - s.  bak, to mount
one's horse, get on horseback)  (Z. brk 2 - vera  brkum, to wear breeches)

Smalasveinn rei rum hesti og gat varla fylgt henni, svo kni hn fast
reiina.
(The) shepherd rode (the) other horse and was scarcely able to follow her, so
fast she pressed riding.

Hn rei suur yfir Slingsdalsheii og nam eigi staar fyrr en undir tngari
a Laugum.
She rode southwards over Saelingsdalesheid and didn't rest before when under
(the) fence of the yard at Laugum.

 st hn af baki en ba smalasveininn gta hestanna mean hn gengi til hss.
Then she dismounted and asked the shepherd (to) watch the horses while she went
to (the) house.

Auur gekk a durum og var opin hur.
Aud went to the door and (the) door was open.

Hn gekk til eldhss og a lokrekkju eirri er rur l  og svaf.
She went to (the) hall and to the locked bed closet which Thord lay in and
slept.

Var hurin fallin aftur en eigi lokan fyrir.
The door was fallen back (closed?) but not locked up.

Hn gekk  lokrekkjuna en rur svaf og horfi  loft upp.
She went in the locked bed closet where Thord slept and turned up in the loft.

 vakti Auur r en hann snerist  hliina er hann s a maur var kominn.
Then Aud woke Thor up and he turned to the space where he saw that a man had
come.

Hn br  saxi og lagi  ri og veitti honum verka mikla og kom  hndina
hgri.
She then drew a short sword and stabbed Thord and gave him a large wound also
came to (his) right hand.

Var hann sr  bum geirvrtum.
He became wounded in both nipples.

Svo lagi hn til fast a saxi nam  beinum staar.
She stabbed so firmly that the sword reached in the bed's place.

San gekk Auur brott og til hests og hljp  bak og rei heim eftir a.
Aud then went away and to (the) horse and hopped on and rode home after that.

rur vildi upp spretta er hann fkk verkann og var a ekki v a hann
mddi blrs.
Thord wanted (to) spring up when he received the wound and that didn't happen
because (the) hemorrhage (i.e., blood loss) exhausted him.

Vi etta vaknai svfur og spyr hva ttt vri en rur kvast orinn fyrir
verkum nokkurum.
With this Osfiv woke up and asks what had happened and Thord stated for himself
the report over several wounds.

svfur spyr ef hann vissi hver  honum hefi unni og st upp og batt um sr
hans.
Osvif asks if he saw who had gotten the better of him and stood up and bound his
wounds.

rur kvast tla a a hefi Auur gert.
Thord stated for himself (he) thinks that Aud had done that.

svfur bau a ra eftir henni, kva hana fmenna til mundu hafa fari og vri
henni skapa vti.
Osvif asked to ride after her, stated her few men would have gone and imposed a
fine on her (???).

rur kva a fjarri skyldu fara, sagi hana slkt hafa a gert sem hn tti.
Thord stated that far off should go, said she in such wise has done as she had.

Auur kom heim  slarupprs og spuru eir brur hennar hvert hn hefi fari.
Aud came home at sunrise and they, her brothers, asked where she had gone.

Auur kvast fari hafa til Lauga og sagi eim hva til tinda hafi gerst 
frum hennar.
Aud stated for herself (to) have gone to Lauga and told them what had occurred
in her journeys.

eir ltu vel yfir og kvu of lti mundu a ori.
They expressed approval of (it) and said too little would become.

rur l lengi  srum og greru vel bringusrin en s hndin var honum hvergi
betri til taks en ur.
Thord lay ill of his wounds a long time and was well healed of the (i.e., "his")
chest wound but the (i.e., "his") hand became by no means better to hold than
before.

Kyrrt var n um veturinn.
All was quiet now during the winter.

#11818 From: "Alan Thompson" <athompso@...>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:47 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 35 part 4 / Alan's Translation
alysseann
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Here’s my translation

 

Kveja

Alan

 

Sveinninn heitir a gera svo sem hn mlti. En um kveldi er smalamaur kom
The lad promises (present) to do such as she stipulated. But (And) during the-evening when the shepherd came

heim spyr Auur tinda.
home Aur asks for tidings.

Smalamaurinn svarar: "Spurt hefi eg au tindi er r munu ykja g a n
The shepherd answers: “I have heard (spyrja, Z4, fits the context better here, I think) those tidings which to you will seem good, that now

er breitt hvluglf milli rma eirra rar og Gurnar v a hn er
(there) is a broad partitioned-off-bed-compartment (here: a wide space) between their beds (rm, Z3), rr’s and Gurn’s, because she is in

seli en hann heljast sklasm og eru eir svfur tveir a veturhsum."
(the) shieling but he works-hard at shed-construction and those, svfr (and rr) are the only two (? cf einn, Z7) at (the) winter-houses (plural).”

"Vel hefir njsna," segir hn, "og haf sla hesta tvo er menn fara a sofa."
“Well have you snooped (reconnoitred),” she says, “and have (you) saddled two horses when people go to sleep.


Smalasveinn geri sem hn bau og nokkuru fyrir slarfall st Auur bak og
(The) shepherd did as she asked and somewhat (ie a little while) before sunset Aur mounted (lit: stepped onto (the) back) and

var hn a vsu brkum. Smalasveinn rei rum hesti og gat varla fylgt
she was then certainly in breeches. (The) shepherd rode (the) other horse and hardly was able to accompany (ie keep up with)

henni, svo kni hn fast reiina. Hn rei suur yfir Slingsdalsheii og
her, so hard she urged the-riding. She rode south over Slingsdalsheir (Wealthy-mans-Dale-Heath) and

nam eigi staar fyrr en undir tngari a Laugum. st hn af baki en ba
took not a pause (ie did not stop) before (she was) under (the) home-meadow-fence at Laugar (Hot Springs). Then she dismounted (lit: stepped off (the) back) and bade

smalasveininn gta hestanna mean hn gengi til hss. Auur gekk a durum og
the-shepherd to take-care-of the-horses while she goes to (the) house. Aur walked to (the) doorway and

var opin hur. Hn gekk til eldhss og a lokrekkju eirri er rur l og
(the) door was open. She walked to (the) living-room (ie the room with the fireplace) and to their locked-bed-closet where-in rr lay and

svaf. Var hurin fallin aftur en eigi lokan fyrir. Hn gekk lokrekkjuna en
slept. The-door was (had) fallen (drawn) back but (had) not closed against (ie had not clicked shut, ie it was slightly ajar?) She stepped into the (unlocked J)-locked-bed-closet but

rur svaf og horfi loft upp. vakti Auur r en hann snerist
rr slept and turned up into (the) air (ie lay face up, cf liggja lopt upp, under lopt, Z1). Then Aur woke rr but (and) he turned-himself onto

hliina er hann s a maur var kominn. Hn br saxi og lagi ri og
the-side when he saw that a person was (had) come. She drew then a short-single-edged-sword and thrust at rr (who had drawn the short-straw!) and

veitti honum verka mikla og kom hndina hgri. Var hann sr bum
inflicted a great wound on him and (it) came into the right arm (hand). He became wounded (sore) on both

geirvrtum. Svo lagi hn til fast a saxi nam beinum staar.
nipples. She thrust towards him so hard that the-short-sword lodged (lit: reached a stop) in the-bolster (bedding).

San gekk Auur brott og til hests og hljp bak og rei heim eftir a. rur vildi
After-that Aur walked away and to (her) horse and leapt on-to (his) back and rode home after that. rr wanted

upp spretta er hann fkk verkann og var a ekki v a hann mddi blrs.
to spring up when he received the-wound and (but) that did-not happen because (the) haemorrhage (blood-running) made him weary.

Vi etta vaknai svfur og spyr hva ttt vri en rur kvast
With this, svfr awoke (svfr knows the best time to wake up J) and asked what had happened (see tr, Z5) but (and) rr declared-of-himself

orinn fyrir verkum nokkurum. svfur spyr ef hann vissi hver honum hefi unni
(to have) met with (see vera fyrir e-u, Z8) some wounds. svfr asks if he knew who had done (pp of vinna, Z3) (this) to him

og st upp og batt (binda) um sr hans. rur kvast tla a a hefi Auur gert.
and stood (got) up and bound up his wounds. rr declared-of-himself to expect that Aur had done that.

svfur bau a ra eftir henni, kva hana fmenna til mundu hafa fari
svfr offered to ride after her, declared her (ie that she) would have gone with-few-followers (n. gen)

og vri henni skapa vti. rur kva a fjarri skyldu fara, sagi
and (there) would-be imposed punishment on her. rr declared that should go far off (ie by no means that should happen, see fjarri, Z2), said

hana slkt hafa a gert sem hn tti.
her to have done such as she had-a-right to.

Auur kom heim slarupprs og spuru eir brur hennar hvert hn hefi
Aur came home at sunrise and they, her brothers, asked where she had

fari. Auur kvast fari hafa til Lauga og sagi eim hva til tinda hafi gerst
gone. Aur declared-herself to have gone to Laugar and said to them what had happened (see gerast til tinda, under tindi)

frum hennar. eir ltu vel yfir og kvu of lti mundu a ori.
in her travels. They expressed approval (see lta vel yfir, Z12) and declared too little would (have) happened (ie she should have done more).

rur l lengi srum og greru vel bringusrin en s hndin var
rr lay a-long-time with (his) wounds and healed (gra) well the chest-wounds but that-one, the-arm, became

honum hvergi betri til taks en ur. Kyrrt var n um veturinn.
for him not-at-all better for gripping than before (ie he lost the full use of his arm). (It) was now quiet during the-winter.




#11819 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:39 pm
Subject: Re: Laxdaela Saga 34 part 4 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> ... og eru þeir Ósvífur tveir að veturhúsum."

> ... and they two, Osvif (and Gudrun) are at the winter
> house."

> ... and they two , Osvif and (Thord), are in the
> winterhouse.”

> ... and those, Ósvífr (and Þórðr) are the only two (? cf
> einn, Z7) at (the) winter-houses (plural).”

I don't know that it's precisely the same usage as with
<einn>, but I am inclined to guess that it's specifically
'two', making them the only two there.

> ... og haf söðlað hesta tvo ...
> ... and have two horses saddled ...
> ... and have two horses saddled ...
> ... and have (you) saddled two horses ...

Since <haf> is the imperative, I'd omit 'you' even as a
parenthetical addition.

> Auður gekk að durum og var opin hurð.
> Aud went to the door and (the) door was open.
> Aud went the door and (the) door was open.
> Auðr walked to (the) doorway and (the) door was open.

In remembering the distinction between <dyrr> 'doorway' and
<hurð> 'door', it may help to realize that <hurð> is related
to 'hurdle': <hurdle> is from Old English <hyrdel>, a
diminutive of <hyrd> 'door'.

> Var hurðin fallin aftur en eigi lokan fyrir.

> The door was fallen back (closed?) but not locked up.

> (The) door was fallen back and not bolted.

> The-door was (had) fallen (drawn) back but (had) not
> closed against (ie had not clicked shut, ie it was
> slightly ajar?)

Simply 'and not bolted': <lokan> is <loka-n> 'the bolt', and
<láta loku fyrir hurð> is 'to bolt a door' (Z. s.v. <loka>).

> Þá vakti Auður Þórð en hann snerist á hliðina er hann sá
> að maður var kominn.

> Then Aud woke Thor up and he turned to the space where he
> saw that a man had come.

> Then Aud woke Thord and he turned himself on his side when
> he saw that a man was come.

> Then Auðr woke Þórðr but (and) he turned-himself onto
> the-side when he saw that a person was (had) come.

In view of the earlier comment that she was certainly
wearing breeches for this expedition, it occurs to me that
<maðr> may actually be 'man' here.

> Hún brá þá saxi og lagði á Þórði og veitti honum áverka
> mikla og kom á höndina hægri.

> She then drew a short sword and stabbed Thord and gave
> him a large wound also came to (his) right hand.

> She drew then the short sword and laid into Thord and gave
> him serious injuries and (it) came on the right hand.

> She drew then a short-single-edged-sword and thrust at
> Þórðr (who had drawn the short-straw!) and inflicted a
> great wound on him and (it) came into the right arm
> (hand).

If the one blow also caught him across the chest, it seems
likely that it took him in the arm, not the hand.

> ... geirvörtum.

Interesting word: 'spear-warts'!

Brian

#11820 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:46 am
Subject: Star Wars XXIX beginning
fredgrace
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Sorry for the delay.  Storms hit our area and power was out again for 12
hours.  The storms May 26 took out power here for two days.
Grace

XXIX. Kapítuli: Frá komu Þúsundárfálkans til Dauðastjǫrnu

Tveim dǫgum síðar sǭ þeir Víga-Óbívan svartan reyk, ok kenntu þeir
reykjarþef. Ok vas reykrinn svá mikill ok myrkr, at eigi fengu þeir sétt
land þat hvaðan reykrinn sté.

“Hvar erum vér?” spyrr Lúkr. “Eða hvaðan kømr sjá reykr?”

“Ek veit eigi,” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “En reiknak at it nærsta land sé
ríki
Aldirankonungs.”

En þeir sǭ fiskibát, ok á bátinum vǭru tveir menn miklir ok sterkir.
Þrípío
spurði þá tíðenda á írsku, en menninir skynjuðu eigi hvat hann sagði.
Þá
spurði hann á norrœnu, hvaðan þessir menn væri komnir.

“Frá Noregi,” segja einn, ok brosti við. En þá þǫgðu þessir menn, ok
Þúsundárfálkinn sigldi fram.

“Sá vas engi meiri en lítill fiskibátr,” kvað Víga-Óbívan, “Ok
þeir fengi
eigi siglt higat allt frá Noregi sjálfir.”

“En fyr hví væri lítill norrœnn fiskibátr svá nærri Írlandi?” spyrr
Hólmgǫngu-Hani. Hann leit á með bátinum, ok kvað, “Þeir sigla nú til
eyjar
þeirar litlu.”

“Þat es engi ey,” segir Víga-Óbívan, “Ok es þat herskip.”

“Ofmikit es þat, ef þat es herskip,” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani.

“Þetta hugsýkir mik,” segir Lúkr.

“Já, nekkvat es skakkt,” kvað Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “Tsiubakka, snúmsk
við.”

En þeir Tsiubakka fengu eigi skipit snúit við, því at Veiði-Anakinn vas á
Dauðastjǫrnu, ok vas enn maðr fjǫlkunnigr mjǫk. Hann hafði svá kveðinn
galdra yfir sævi, at bylgjurnar fœrðu til hans ǫllum skipum þeim es hann
kenndi eigi.

En þá es þeir skynjuðu, at þeir eigi fengu komit undan, fǭlusk þeir.
Sekkar
miklir tíu lǭgu þar hjá búlkanum; þeir tóku nekkverja út en kómu þeir
þar í
staðinn þeira meðal farmsins. Norrœnir hermenn røru út frá Dauðastjǫrnu
til
Fálkans ok leituðu ok fundu eigi.


Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11821 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:28 am
Subject: Star Wars XXIX beginning - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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XXIX. Kapítuli: Frá komu Þúsundárfálkans til Dauðastjǫrnu
How the Millenium Falcon came to the Death Star

Tveim dǫgum síðar sǭ þeir Víga-Óbívan svartan reyk, ok kenntu þeir
reykjarþef. Ok vas reykrinn
Two days later they, Slayer Obiwan (and company) saw black smoke and they
recognized the smell of smoke.  And the smoke was

svá mikill ok myrkr, at eigi fengu þeir sétt land þat hvaðan reykrinn sté.
so much and dark that they were not able to see  that land whence the smoke
arose.

“Hvar erum vér?” spyrr Lúkr. “Eða hvaðan kømr sjá reykr?”
“Where are we?” asks Luke.  “Where does that smoke come from?”

“Ek veit eigi,” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “En reiknak at it nærsta land sé
ríki
Aldirankonungs.”
“I don’t know,” says Duel Han, “But I reckon that the nearest land be
(the)
dominion of Aldiran’s king.”

En þeir sǭ fiskibát, ok á bátinum vǭru tveir menn miklir ok sterkir.
Þrípío
spurði þá tíðenda á
And they saw a fishing boat and on the boat were two men, tall and strong.
3PO asked them for news in

írsku, en menninir skynjuðu eigi hvat hann sagði. Þá spurði hann á
norrœnu,
hvaðan þessir menn væri komnir.
Irish, but the men didn’t understand what he said.  Then he asked in Norse,
where these men came from.

“Frá Noregi,” segja einn, ok brosti við. En þá þǫgðu þessir menn, ok
Þúsundárfálkinn sigldi fram.
“From Norway,” says one and smiled at that.  But then these men were silent
and the Millenium Falcon sailed away.

“Sá vas engi meiri en lítill fiskibátr,” kvað Víga-Óbívan, “Ok
þeir fengi
eigi siglt higat allt frá Noregi sjálfir.”
“That was no more than a little fishing boat,” said Slayer Obiwan, “And
they
were not able to sail here all the way from Norway themselves.”

“En fyr hví væri lítill norrœnn fiskibátr svá nærri Írlandi?” spyrr
Hólmgǫngu-Hani. Hann leit á
“But why would a little Norwegian fishing boat be so near to Ireland?”  asks
Duel Han.  He kept an eye on

með bátinum, ok kvað, “Þeir sigla nú til eyjar þeirar litlu.”
the boat and said, “They sail now to that little island.”

“Þat es engi ey,” segir Víga-Óbívan, “Ok es þat herskip.”
“That is no island,” says Slayer Obiwan, “And that is a warship.”

“Ofmikit es þat, ef þat es herskip,” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani.
“Too large is that if that is a warship,” says Duel Han.

“Þetta hugsýkir mik,” segir Lúkr.
“This worries me,” says Luke.

“Já, nekkvat es skakkt,” kvað Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “Tsiubakka, snúmsk
við.”
“Yes something is awry,” said Duel Han, “Chewbacca, turn us around.”

En þeir Tsiubakka fengu eigi skipit snúit við, því at Veiði-Anakinn vas á
Dauðastjǫrnu, ok vas
But they, Chewbacca (and company) were not able to turn around because Vader
Anakinn was on the Death Star and was

enn maðr fjǫlkunnigr mjǫk. Hann hafði svá kveðinn galdra yfir sævi, at
bylgjurnar fœrðu til hans
still a man very skilled in magic.  He had so cast a spell over the sea that
the waves carried to him

ǫllum skipum þeim es hann kenndi eigi.
all those ships which he did not know.

En þá es þeir skynjuðu, at þeir eigi fengu komit undan, fǭlusk þeir.
Sekkar
miklir tíu lǭgu þar hjá
And then when they understood that they could not escape, they hid
themselves.  Ten great sacks lay there near

búlkanum; þeir tóku nekkverja út en kómu þeir þar í staðinn þeira
meðal
farmsins. Norrœnir
the cargo; they took some (contents) out and they went there in  their stead
between the cargo.

hermenn røru út frá Dauðastjǫrnu til Fálkans ok leituðu ok fundu eigi.
Norwegian warriors rowed out from the Death Star to the Falcon and searched
and did not find (them).

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11822 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:17 pm
Subject: Star Wars XXIX beginning - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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XXIX. Kaptuli: Fr komu sundrflkans til Dauastjǫrnu
(The) Millennium Falcon Emerges at the Death Star

Tveim dǫgum sar sǭ eir Vga-bvan svartan reyk, ok kenntu eir
reykjaref.
Two days later they, Slayer-Obiwan (and the others) saw black smoke, and they
sensed the smell of smoke.

Ok vas reykrinn sv mikill ok myrkr, at eigi fengu eir stt land at hvaan
reykrinn st.
And the smoke was so great and dark, that they were not able to see the land
whence the smoke stepped on (???).

"Hvar erum vr?" spyrr Lkr. "Ea hvaan kmr sj reykr?"
"Where are we?" asks Luke. "Or from where does the smoke come?"

"Ek veit eigi," segir Hlmgǫngu-Hani, "En reiknak at it nrsta land s rki
Aldirankonungs."
"I don't know," says Dueler-Han, "But I calculate that the nearest land would be
the kingdom of King Aldiran's."

En eir sǭ fiskibt, ok  btinum vǭru tveir menn miklir ok sterkir.
And they saw a fishing boat, and on the boat were two large and strong men.

rpo spuri  tenda  rsku, en menninir skynjuu eigi hvat hann sagi.
3PO asked them in Irish (the) news, but the men didn't understand what he said.

 spuri hann  norrnu, hvaan essir menn vri komnir.
Then he asked in Norwegian, from where these men had come.

"Fr Noregi," segja einn, ok brosti vi.
"From Norway," says one, and smiled in reply.

En  ǫgu essir menn, ok sundrflkinn sigldi fram.
But then these men became silent, and the Millennium Falcon sailed forward
(i.e., sailed on).

"S vas engi meiri en ltill fiskibtr," kva Vga-bvan, "Ok eir fengi eigi
siglt higat allt fr Noregi sjlfir."
"That was not more than a little fishing boat," said Slayer Obiwan, "And they
were not able to sail hither all from Norway themselves."

"En fyr hv vri ltill norrnn fiskibtr sv nrri rlandi?" spyrr
Hlmgǫngu-Hani.
"And why was a little Norwegian fishing boat so near Ireland?" asks Dueler Han.

Hann leit  me btinum, ok kva, "eir sigla n til eyjar eirar litlu."
He kept an eye on the boat and said, "They sail now to that little island."

"at es engi ey," segir Vga-bvan, "Ok es at herskip."
"That is no island," says Slayer Obiwan, "And that is a warship."

"Ofmikit es at, ef at es herskip," segir Hlmgǫngu-Hani.
"That is powerful, if that is a warship," says Dueler Han.

"etta hugskir mik," segir Lkr.
"This makes me anxious," says Luke.

"J, nekkvat es skakkt," kva Hlmgǫngu-Hani, "Tsiubakka, snmsk vi."
"Yes, something is awry," said Dueler Han, "Chewbacca, let's turn (I don't see
how "vi" fits here)."

En eir Tsiubakka fengu eigi skipit snit vi, v at Veii-Anakinn vas 
Dauastjǫrnu, ok vas enn mar fjǫlkunnigr mjǫk.
But they, Chewbacca (and the others) were not able to turn the ship, because
Anakin Vader was on the Death Star, and was a man very skilled in magic.

Hann hafi sv kveinn galdra yfir svi, at bylgjurnar fru til hans ǫllum
skipum eim es hann kenndi eigi.
He had so recited charms over the sea, that the billows brought to him all the
ships that he didn't know.

En  es eir skynjuu, at eir eigi fengu komit undan, fǭlusk eir.
And when they understood that they were not able to escape, they hid themselves.

Sekkar miklir tu lǭgu ar hj blkanum; eir tku nekkverja t en kmu
eir ar  stainn eira meal farmsins.
10 large sacks lay there near the cargo; they took some out and they came there
instead among the cargo.

Norrnir hermenn rru t fr Dauastjǫrnu til Flkans ok leituu ok fundu
eigi.
Norwegian warriors rowed out from the Death Star to the Falcon and looked and
didn't find (anyone).

#11823 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:05 pm
Subject: Re: Star Wars XXIX beginning - - Grace's translation
bmscotttg
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> XXIX. Kapítuli: Frá komu Þúsundárfálkans til Dauðastjǫrnu
> (The) Millennium Falcon Emerges at the Death Star
> How the Millenium Falcon came to the Death Star

<Komu> is actually a noun here, the oblique singular of
<koma> 'arrival': 'Concerning the Arrival of the Millennium
Falcon at the Death Star', 'Of the Arrival ...'.

> ... land þat hvaðan reykrinn sté.
> ... land whence the smoke stepped on (???).
> ... land whence the smoke arose.

'Arose' and 'came' work.  Literally it's 'land whence the
smoke stood'; it's similar to the English 'the wind stood in
the west', meaning that the wind was from the west.  In
Zoëga's classification it goes under (8) 'to stand in a
certain way, project, trend'.

> “Hvar erum vér?” spyrr Lúkr. “Eða hvaðan kømr sjá reykr?”

> "Where are we?" asks Luke. "Or from where does the smoke
> come?"

> “Where are we?” asks Luke. “Where does that smoke come
> from?”

This <eða> just serves to link the question to the preceding
statement; I'd translate it simply as 'and'.

> ... Þúsundárfálkinn sigldi fram.

> ... the Millennium Falcon sailed forward (i.e., sailed
> on).

> ... the Millenium Falcon sailed away.

I'm with Rob here.  It's true that they do sail away, but
that's an indirect consequence of their sailing forward/on.

> “Ofmikit es þat, ...
> "That is powerful, ...
> “Too large is that ...

Definitely 'too large'; <of-> is pretty reliably 'too-,
over-, excessive(ly)-'.

> “Já, nekkvat es skakkt,” kvað Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “Tsiubakka,
> snúmsk við.”

> "Yes, something is awry," said Dueler Han, "Chewbacca,
> let's turn (I don't see how "við" fits here)."

<Snúa við> is 'to turn around, to turn back'.  I presume
that it comes from the sense 'against' of <við>: 'to turn
against the present direction of motion'.

> “Yes something is awry,” said Duel Han, “Chewbacca, turn
> us around.”

<Snúmsk> isn't an imperative, so I prefer Rob's 'Let's turn
(around)'.

Just for fun: the adjective <skakkr> is cognate with <shank>
'the part of the leg between knee and ankle; shinbone'

> ... ok vas enn maðr fjǫlkunnigr mjǫk.
> ... and was a man very skilled in magic.
> ... and was still a man very skilled in magic.

Rob: you missed <enn> 'still'.

Brian

#11824 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:35 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 35 part 5
fredgrace
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Somewhere along the line I got the chapter numbering mixed up.
Grace

En eftir um vori kom Ingunn mir rar vestan af Sklmarnesi. Hann tk
vel vi henni. Hn kvast vilja rast undir rabur rar. Kva hn Kotkel
og konu hans og sonu gera sr vrt  fjrrnum og fjlkynngi en hafa miki
traust af Hallsteini goa. rur veikst skjtt vi etta ml og kvast hafa
skyldu rtt af jfum eim tt Hallsteinn vri a mti, snarast egar til
ferar vi tunda mann. Ingunn fr og vestur me honum. Hann hafi ferju r
Tjaldanesi. San hldu au vestur til Sklmarness.
rur lt flytja til skips allt lausaf a er mir hans tti ar en smala
skyldi reka fyrir innan fjru. Tlf voru au alls  skipi. ar var Ingunn
og nnur kona. rur kom til bjar Kotkels me tunda mann. Synir eirra
Kotkels voru eigi heima. San stefndi hann eim Kotkeli og Grmu og sonum
eirra um jfna og fjlkynngi og lt vara skggang. Hann stefndi skum
eim til alingis og fr til skips eftir a.  komu eir Hallbjrn og
Stgandi heim er rur var kominn fr landi og  skammt. Sagi Kotkell 
sonum snum hva ar hafi  gerst. eir brur uru ir vi etta og kvu
menn ekki hafa fyrr gengi  berhgg vi au um svo mikinn fjandskap. San
lt Kotkell gera seihjall mikinn. au frust ar  upp ll. au kvu ar
fri sn en a voru galdrar. v nst laust  hr mikilli.
a fann rur Ingunnarson og hans frunautar ar sem hann var  s staddur
og til hans var gert veri. Keyrir skipi vestur fyrir Sklmarnes. rur
sndi mikinn hraustleik  slii. a su eir menn er  landi voru a hann
kastai v llu er til unga var utan mnnum. Vntu eir menn er  landi
voru ri  landtku v a  var af fari a sem skerjttast var. San
reis boi skammt fr landi s er engi maur mundi a fyrri hefi uppi veri
og laust skipi svo a egar horfi upp kjlurinn. ar drukknai rur og
allt fruneyti hans en skipi braut  spn og rak ar kjlinn er san
heitir Kjalarey. Skjld rar rak   ey er Skjaldarey er kllu. Lk
rar rak ar egar  land og hans frunauta. Var ar haugur orpinn a
lkum eirra ar er san heitir Haugsnes.
Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11825 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:12 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 35 part 5 - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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En eftir um vorið kom Ingunn móðir Þórðar vestan af Skálmarnesi. Hann
tók
vel við henni. Hún
But afterwards? during the spring, Ingunn, Thord’s mother came from the west
from Skalmarness.  He welcomed her.  She

kvaðst vilja ráðast undir áraburð Þórðar. Kvað hún Kotkel og konu hans
og
sonu gera sér óvært í
said she wishes to sail under Thord’s oars.  She said Kotkell and his wife
and sons harass her by

fjárránum og fjölkynngi en hafa mikið traust af Hallsteini goða. Þórður
veikst skjótt við þetta mál
robbery and magic and have great support from Chieftain Hallstein.  Thord
turned himself quickly at this speech

og kvaðst hafa skyldu rétt af þjófum þeim þótt Hallsteinn væri að
móti,
snarast þegar til ferðar
and said of himself to be obliged to duty by those thieves although
Hallstein was against it, turns himself at once to a journey

við tíunda mann. Ingunn fór og vestur með honum. Hann hafði ferju úr
Tjaldanesi. Síðan héldu þau vestur til Skálmarness.
as the tenth man.  Ingunn went west with him.  He had a large boat out of
Tents Ness.   Afterwards they steered west to Skalmarness.

Þórður lét flytja til skips allt lausafé það er móðir hans átti þar
en smala
skyldi reka fyrir innan
Thord had all that portable wealth which his mother had there conveyed to
the ship, but sheep should be driven inside

fjörðu. Tólf voru þau alls á skipi. Þar var Ingunn og önnur kona.
Þórður kom
til bæjar Kotkels
(the) fjord.  They were twelve in all on (the) ship.  There was Ingunn and
another woman.  Thord came to Kotkell’s farm

með tíunda mann. Synir þeirra Kotkels voru eigi heima. Síðan stefndi hann
þeim Kotkeli og
as the tenth man.  Those sons of Kotkell were not at home.  Afterwards he
summoned them, Kotkell and

Grímu og sonum þeirra um þjófnað og fjölkynngi og lét varða skóggang.
Hann
stefndi sökum
Grim and their sons regarding theft and magic and had pronounced punishment
of outlawry.  He summoned those cases

þeim til alþingis og fór til skips eftir það. Þá komu þeir Hallbjörn og
Stígandi heim er Þórður var
to (the) Allthing and went to (the) ship after that.  Then they, Hallbjorn
and Stigandi came home when Thord had

kominn frá landi og þó skammt. Sagði Kotkell þá sonum sínum hvað þar
hafði í
gerst. Þeir
sailed from land and just barely.  Kotkell told them, his sons, what had
happened there.  Those

bræður urðu óðir við þetta og kváðu menn ekki hafa fyrr gengið í
berhögg við
þau um svo
brothers became furious at that and said men have not previously entered
into open fighting with them regarding

mikinn fjandskap. Síðan lét Kotkell gera seiðhjall mikinn. Þau færðust
þar á
upp öll. Þau kváðu
so much enmity.  Afterwards Kotkell had a large magic scaffold built.  The
built (it) all up there.  They summoned

þar fræði sín en það voru galdrar. Því næst laust á hríð mikilli.
their knowledge and spells were it.  Next struck a violent storm.

Það fann Þórður Ingunnarson og hans förunautar þar sem hann var á sæ
staddur
og til hans var
It found ?  (if so, why are Thord, etc. nominative?) Thord Ingunn’s son and
his fellow travelers
there where he was positioned at sea and a storm

gert veðrið. Keyrir skipið vestur fyrir Skálmarnes. Þórður sýndi mikinn
hraustleik í sæliði. Það
befell him.  The ship turns west for Skalm’s Ness.  Thord appeared valiant
and rendering help to a ship at sea.

sáu þeir menn er á landi voru að hann kastaði því öllu er til þunga var
utan
mönnum. Væntu þeir
Those men saw it who were on land that he cast it all (overboard) which was
heavy outside of people.  Those men who were on land hoped

menn er á landi voru Þórði þá landtöku því að þá var af farið það
sem
skerjóttast var. Síðan reis
for a landfall for Thord then because then (the ship) was sailed where most
skerries were.  Afterwards

boði skammt frá landi sá er engi maður mundi að fyrri hefði uppi verið og
laust skipið svo að
a breaker rose up a short way from that land where no man recalled had been
heaved up before and struck the ship so that

þegar horfði upp kjölurinn. Þar drukknaði Þórður og allt föruneyti hans
en
skipið braut í spón og
immediatly the keel heaved up.  There Thord and all his traveling companions
drowned and the ship broke into splinters and

rak þar kjölinn er síðan heitir Kjalarey. Skjöld Þórðar rak í þá ey
er
Skjaldarey er kölluð. Lík
keel washed up where (it is) called Keel Island since.  Thord’s shield
washed up on that island which is called Shield Island.

Þórðar rak þar þegar á land og hans förunauta. Var þar haugur orpinn að
líkum þeirra þar er síðan heitir Haugsnes.
Thord’s body washed ashore immediately and (those of) his companions.  There
was a great mound raised over their bodies there where is since called Haug’s
Ness.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11826 From: "Alan Thompson" <athompso@...>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:21 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 35 part 5 / Alan's Translation
alysseann
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Heres my translation.

 

Kveja

Alan


En eftir um vori kom Ingunn mir rar vestan af Sklmarnesi. Hann
But later during the-spring (see eptir Z.iii.1), Ingunn, mother of rr came from-(the)-west from Sklmarnes (Prong-Ness). He

tk vel vi henni. Hn kvast vilja rast undir rabur rar. Kva hn Kotkel
received her well. She declared-of-herself to want to be be-settled under the protection (lit: movement of oars) of rr. She declared Kotkell

og konu hans og sonu gera sr vrt fjrrnum og fjlkynngi en hafa miki
and his wife and son to make uneasiness for (ie harass) her in (respect of their) robbery and sorcery but to have (the) great

traust af Hallsteini goa. rur veikst skjtt vi etta ml og kvast hafa skyldu
protection of Hallstein goi (priest-chieftain). rr responded (vkjast vi e-t, Z4) like-a-shot (in a flash) to this matter and declared-of-himself (that he/they) should (is this seems an example of use of the past infinitive, see Gordon 171?) have

rtt af jfum eim tt Hallsteinn vri a mti, snarast egar til
justice (right, rttr) from those thieves, even-though Hallstein should-be against (it, ie opposed), turns-himself (hastens) at-once to

ferar vi tunda mann. Ingunn fr og vestur me honum. Hann hafi ferju r
a journey with (the) tenth man. Ingunn also travelled west with him. He had (ie made use of, took, hafa, Z4) a ferry-boat out-from

Tjaldanesi. San hldu au vestur til Sklmarness.
Tjaldanes. After-that they held (course) west to Sklmarness.

rur lt flytja til skips allt lausaf a er mir hans tti ar en
rr caused to convey to ship all that moveable-property which his mother had (ie owned) there but (and)

smala skyldi reka fyrir innan fjru. Tlf voru au alls skipi. ar var Ingunn
(one) should drive (the) sheep (note: impersonal construction) inside-of (?) (the) fjord. They were twelve in all on (the) ship. Ingunn was there

og nnur kona. rur kom til bjar Kotkels me tunda mann. Synir eirra
and another woman. rr came to Kotkell’s farm with (the) tenth man. Their sons,

Kotkels voru eigi heima. San stefndi hann eim Kotkeli og Grmu og sonum eirra
Kotkell’s (and his wife’s) were not at home. After-that he summoned them, Kotkell and Grma and their sons

um jfna og fjlkynngi og lt vara skggang. Hann stefndi skum eim
concerning (the) theft and caused to entail-a-penalty-of (vara e-m e-t, Z5) outlawry (forest-walking) (on them). He brought (referred) those cases

til alingis og fr til skips eftir a. komu eir Hallbjrn og
to (the) Althing and went to (his) ship after that. Then came they, Hallbjrn and

Stgandi heim er rur var kominn fr landi og skammt. Sagi Kotkell
Stigandi home when rr was (had) come from (the) land and (but) still (only) a short-distance (away). Kotkell said then (them would be eim, dative)

sonum snum hva ar hafi gerst. eir brur uru ir vi etta og kvu
to his sons what had there happened. Those brothers became mad (furious) at this and declared

menn ekki hafa fyrr gengi berhgg vi au um svo mikinn fjandskap. San
people not to have gone into an open-fight with them before through such great hostility (typo: fjndskapr?). After-that

lt Kotkell gera seihjall mikinn. au frust ar upp ll. au kvu ar
Kotkell caused to make a great incantation-scaffold (spelling-beams). They all conveyed-themselves up there onto (it). They recited there

fri sn en a voru galdrar. v nst laust hr mikilli.
their spells (froei, Z2) but (and) those were magic-songs. Next to that (in the next instant?), a great storm came-on-suddenly (see ljsta, Z4, impers).

a fann rur Ingunnarson og hans frunautar ar sem hann var s staddur
rr Ingunn’s-son and his travelling-companions (subject) noticed that (object) there where he was situated on (the) sea

og til hans var gert veri. Keyrir skipi vestur fyrir Sklmarnes. rur
and the-wind (weather) was sent (directed, gra, Z8) towards him (ie it had his number on it). The-ship is driven (see keyra, Z5, impers.) west off Sklmarnes. rr

sndi mikinn hraustleik slii. a su eir menn er landi voru a hann
showed great valour in (the) sea-rescue. Those persons who were on land (ashore) saw that, that he

kastai v llu er til unga var utan mnnum. Vntu eir menn er landi voru
cast (overboard) all that which was heavy without (ie except for the) persons. Those persons who were on land (ashore) were-hopeful of

ri landtku v a var af fari a sem skerjttast var. San
a landing then for rr because that which was fullest-of-skerries was then gone from (them) (ie they had passed the most densely skerried bit). After-that

reis boi skammt fr landi s er engi maur mundi a fyrri hefi uppi veri
a breaker rose suddenly from (the) land (shore), that which no person remembered (muna) that had been (ie risen) up before

og laust skipi svo a egar horfi upp kjlurinn. ar drukknai rur og
and struck the ship such that at-once the-keel turned up. There rr drowned and

allt fruneyti hans en skipi braut spn og rak ar kjlinn er san
all his travelling-companions but (and) the-ship broke into pieces (was smashed to smithereens) and (it, impersonal construction) drove (tossed) the-keel there where later

heitir Kjalarey. Skjld rar rak ey er Skjaldarey er kllu.
is-called Kjalarey (Keel Island). (It) drove (tossed) (the) shield of rr into that island which is-called Skaldarey (Shield Island).

Lk rar rak ar egar land og hans frunauta. Var ar haugur orpinn a
(It) drove (the) body of rr there at-once on-to land (ashore) and his travelling-companions. A burial-mound was raised upon

lkum eirra ar er san heitir Haugsnes.
their bodies there where later is-called Haugsnes (Burial-Mound-Ness).


 


#11827 From: NINA NILSON <ninamite@...>
Date: Fri Jun 3, 2011 8:35 am
Subject: Translation of my Swedish Surname
ninamite@...
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Hello, I am trying to find research materials or help of any kind to translate my Swedish surname, (Nilsson) to Old Swedish or even a Runic translation.
My family immigrated from Southwest Sweden so I would like to find out the variation used there from the 7th to 11th centuries. I would be extremely grateful to be directed to a reliable source to obtain the translation from directly.
Any help would be appreciated.

--
Nina Nilson
1859 SW Hungry Hill Drive
Grants Pass, OR 97527
619-822-0767

#11828 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:56 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 33 part 5 - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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Just got back from a trip, and glad to be able to post my translation:

En eftir um vori kom Ingunn mir rar vestan af Sklmarnesi.
And after, during spring, Thor's mother Ingunn from the west of Skalmarness
(Prong's-ness).

Hann tk vel vi henni.
He received her well.

Hn kvast vilja rast undir rabur rar.
She stated for herself to become dependent on Thord.      (Z. raburr  - koma
(rast) undir rabur e-s, to become dependent on one)

Kva hn Kotkel og konu hans og sonu gera sr vrt  fjrrnum og fjlkynngi en
hafa miki traust af Hallsteini goa.
She said Kotkel and his wife and son become unpeaceful in robbery(?) and sorcery
and have much protection from chief Hallstein.

rur veikst skjtt vi etta ml og kvast hafa skyldu rtt af jfum eim
tt Hallsteinn vri a mti, snarast egar til ferar vi tunda mann.
Thord stirred speedily with this case and stated for himself have duty precisely
of the thieves thought Hallstein was against, hastens at once to a journey with
nine men.

Ingunn fr og vestur me honum.
Ingunn also went west with him.

Hann hafi ferju r Tjaldanesi.
He had traveled out of Tjaldanes (Tent-ness).

San hldu au vestur til Sklmarness.
Then they kept west to Skalmarness.

rur lt flytja til skips allt lausaf a er mir hans tti ar en smala
skyldi reka fyrir innan fjru.
Thord caused to move to a ship all the movable property that his mother owned
there and (the) sheep (they)  should drive inside of (the) inlet.   (Z. fyrir
innab., prep. with acc. Inside of, within)

  Tlf voru au alls  skipi.
They were  twelve in all on the ship.

ar var Ingunn og nnur kona.
Ingun was there and another woman.

rur kom til bjar Kotkels me tunda mann.
Thord come to Kotkel's farm with nine men.

Synir eirra Kotkels voru eigi heima.
They, Kotkel's sons, were not at home.

San stefndi hann eim Kotkeli og Grmu og sonum eirra um jfna og
fjlkynngi og lt vara skggang.
Then he cited them, Kotkel and Grim and their sons, for thievery and witchcraft
and caused to defend  outlawry (caused them to defend themselves against charges
of outlawry?).

Hann stefndi skum eim til alingis og fr til skips eftir a.
He summoned them on charges to the all-Thing  and went on ship after that.

 komu eir Hallbjrn og Stgandi heim er rur var kominn fr landi og 
skammt.
They, Hallbjorn and Stigand, then came home when Thord had come from land and
nevertheless brief (?).

Sagi Kotkell  sonum snum hva ar hafi  gerst.
Kotkell then told his sons what had happened there.

eir brur uru ir vi etta og kvu menn ekki hafa fyrr gengi  berhgg
vi au um svo mikinn fjandskap.
The brothers became furious with this and said men hadn't previously entered
into an open fight with them concerning so much hostility.    (Z. berhgg, n. in
the phrase, ganga  (or ) berhgg vi e-n, to enter into open fight with)

San lt Kotkell gera seihjall mikinn.
Then Kotkell caused to make a great incantation.

au frust ar  upp ll.
They moved themselves all up there.

au kvu ar fri sn en a voru galdrar.
There they said his lore and that was sorcery.

v nst laust  hr mikilli.
Thereupon (they) were caught by a violent snow-storm.    (Z. hr (pl. -ir), f.
(1) storm, esp. snowstorm; h. mikla geri at eim, laust  fyrir eim h.
mikilli, they were caught by a violent snow-storm)

a fann rur Ingunnarson og hans frunautar ar sem hann var  s staddur og
til hans var gert veri.
Thord, son of Ingunnar and his fellow travelers found that there was he was
situated at sea and until the weather had passed him.

Keyrir skipi vestur fyrir Sklmarnes.
The ship is driven from the west before Skalmarness.

rur sndi mikinn hraustleik  slii.
Thord showed much valor in help at sea.

a su eir menn er  landi voru a hann kastai v llu er til unga var utan
mnnum.
The men saw that, which on land was thrown thus all that was of weight, except
for people.

Vntu eir menn er  landi voru ri  landtku v a  var af fari a sem
skerjttast var.
The men hoped for that to land was Thord then landing because then was gone from
that as was sailed past.

San reis boi skammt fr landi s er engi maur mundi a fyrri hefi uppi
veri og laust skipi svo a egar horfi upp kjlurinn.
Then rose a messenger a short distance from land saw that no man would rather
have lived so that at once the keel turned up (i.e., the boat capsized).    (Z.
uppi (2) vera, u., to live)

ar drukknai rur og allt fruneyti hans en skipi braut  spn og rak ar
kjlinn er san heitir Kjalarey.
Thord and all his companions drowned there and the ship was dashed in pieces and
the keel drifted there which later is called Kjalarey.

Skjld rar rak   ey er Skjaldarey er kllu.
Thord's shield drifted to that island which is called Skjaldar-island.

Lk rar rak ar egar  land og hans frunauta.
Thord's and his companions' bodies drifted there at once to land.

Var ar haugur orpinn a lkum eirra ar er san heitir Haugsnes.
A mound was raised there for their bodies, there which then is called
Haug's-ness.

#11829 From: Paul Hansen <paalhanssen@...>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:36 pm
Subject: RE: Translation of my Swedish Surname
paalhanssen@...
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Of course, "Nilsson" means "Nils's Son", and variations are Nelsen, Nelson, etc.
My Uncle Henry was actually "Henrik Nels Hansen" (my family tree is from Jylland).
One could imagine that it derives from "Njal's Son", but it doesn't, and, in fact, "Njal" is actually an Irish loan into Norse.
"Nils" derives from "Nicholas", who was a Saint in the early CHRISTian Church,
and thus enters the Norse language with the entry of the Gospel of CHRIST into Skandinavia.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Paul David Hansen
Duvall, WA 98019

 

To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
From: ninamite@...
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 01:35:32 -0700
Subject: [norse_course] Translation of my Swedish Surname

 
Hello, I am trying to find research materials or help of any kind to translate my Swedish surname, (Nilsson) to Old Swedish or even a Runic translation. 
My family immigrated from Southwest Sweden so I would like to find out the variation used there from the 7th to 11th centuries. I would be extremely grateful to be directed to a reliable source to obtain the translation from directly.
Any help would be appreciated.

--
Nina Nilson
1859 SW Hungry Hill Drive
Grants Pass, OR 97527
619-822-0767



#11830 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: Translation of my Swedish Surname
bmscotttg
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At 4:35:32 AM on Friday, June 3, 2011, NINA NILSON wrote:

> Hello, I am trying to find research materials or help of
> any kind to translate my Swedish surname, (Nilsson) to Old
> Swedish or even a Runic translation.

> My family immigrated from Southwest Sweden so I would like
> to find out the variation used there from the 7th to 11th
> centuries.

<Nilsson> is a patronymic meaning 'son of Nils'.  <Nils>,
<Niels>, <Nels>, etc. are later forms of <Nikolas>, the
Scandinavian borrowing of Latin <Nic(h)olaus>, which is from
Greek <Niklaos>.  They first appear in Denmark in the
middle of the 14th century; from there they entered Norway,
where they start to appear around 1400 and grow in frequency
during the 15th century.  The SMP (Sveriges medeltida
personnamn) hasn't yet reached N, so I have no specific
dates for the appearance of the short forms in Swedish
records, but it's a pretty safe bet that the earliest
examples are from 1400 give or take a few decades.

The earliest Danish appearances of the name <Nicolaus> noted
in Danmarks Gamle Personnavne are from the early 12th
century.  An illegitimate son of Svend Estridsen who was
born around 1065 bore the name and was king 1104 to 1134;
nowadays he's usually called <Niels> or <Nils>, but this
appears to be an anachronism.

In short, the name seems to have entered Scandinavia in the
11th century in forms like <Nikols> (and of course
documentary Latin <Nic(h)olaus>); <Niklas> and the like
appear in Denmark in the earlier 13th century; and the
monosyllabic forms don't appear anywhere until the 14th
century.

Brian

#11831 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:14 am
Subject: Re: Laxdaela Saga 33 part 5 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> Þórður ... kvaðst hafa skyldu rétt af þjófum þeim ...

> Thord ... stated for  himself have duty precisely of the
> thieves ...

> Thord ... said of himself to be obliged to duty by those
> thieves ...

> Þórðr ... declared-of-himself (that he/they) should (is
> this seems an example of use of the past infinitive, see
> Gordon 171?) have justice (right, réttr) from those
> thieves, ...

It certainly looks like a past infinitive to me.  (I'd make
it simply 'Þ. ... said that he would have justice ...'.)

> ... en smala skyldi reka fyrir innan fjörðu.

> ... and (the) sheep (they) should drive inside of (the)
> inlet. (Z. fyrir innab., prep. with acc. Inside of,
> within)

> ... but sheep should be driven inside (the) fjord.

> ... but (and) (one) should drive (the) sheep (note:
> impersonal construction) inside-of (?) (the) fjord.

<Fyrir innan fjörðu> is 'to the inside of the fjords',
meaning 'inland of the fjords'.  The idea is that the
inanimate goods and the people were going by sea, but the
animals would go by land, the long way round: they 'were to
be driven around the heads (= innermost ends) of the
fjords'.

> Síðan stefndi hann þeim Kotkeli og Grímu og sonum þeirra
> um þjófnað og fjölkynngi og lét varða skóggang.

> Then he cited them, Kotkel and Grim and their sons, for
> thievery and witchcraft and caused to defend outlawry
> (caused them to defend themselves against charges of
> outlawry?).

> Afterwards he summoned them, Kotkell and Grim and their
> sons regarding theft and magic and had pronounced
> punishment of outlawry.

> After-that he summoned them, Kotkell and Gríma and their
> sons concerning (the) theft and caused to
> entail-a-penalty-of (varða e-m e-t, Z5) outlawry
> (forest-walking) (on them).

I think that <lét varða skóggang> is 'and asked for a
penalty of outlawry'; see the last example at Z5.

> Þeir bræður urðu óðir við þetta og kváðu menn ekki hafa
> fyrr gengið í berhögg við þau um svo mikinn fjandskap.

> The brothers became furious with this and said men hadn't
> previously entered into an open fight with them concerning
> so much hostility. (Z. berhögg, n. in the phrase, ganga í
> (or á) berhögg við e-n, to enter into open fight with)

> Those brothers became furious at that and said men have
> not previously entered into open fighting with them
> regarding so much enmity.

> Those brothers became mad (furious) at this and declared
> people not to have gone into an open-fight with them
> before through such great hostility (typo: fjándskapr?).

You mean the missing accent?  That's the modern Icelandic
spelling.  I think that <um> here means something closer to
'with, by means of'; Fritzner notes this sense, though I
don't immediately see it in either CV or Z.

> Því næst laust á hríð mikilli.

> Thereupon (they) were caught by a violent snow-storm. (Z.
> hríð (pl. -ir), f. (1) storm, esp. snowstorm; h. mikla
> gerði at þeim, laust á fyrir þeim h. mikilli, they were
> caught by a violent snow-storm)

> Next struck a violent storm.

> Next to that (in the next instant?), a great storm
> came-on-suddenly (see ljósta, Z4, impers).

Simply 'after that, thereafter', I think; my impression is
that <því næst> indicates the next item in a series and is
more indicative of some relationship between two events than
of a very short time interval between them.  Here, of
course, the relationship is causal.

Brian

#11832 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:47 am
Subject: Star Wars XXIX end + beginning XXX
fredgrace
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En Hólmgǫngu-Hani hrópaði út á hermenn tvá þá es stóðu nær, ok es
þeir kómu,
drap hann þá með øxi sína, ok sǭ engir aðrir at þetta vas gørt. Þá
klæddusk
þeir Lúkr í hvítum brynjum þeira, ok þessar brynjur vǭru með hvíta
hjálma,
ok á hjálmana vǭru hvítar grímur þær es leyndu andlitit. Ok svá klæddir
fóru
þeir með aðra hermenn aptr til Dauðastjǫrnu.
En áðr en þeir svá fóru, hvískraði Víga-Óbívan í eyru Lúki: “Hverr
es meira
fífl? Fíflit, eða fíflit þat es fylgir því fyrsta?”
XXX. Kapítuli: Frá affǫr Víga-Óbívans á Dauðastjǫrnu
Nú es at segja frá því, at þeir Hólmgǫngu-Hani kvǭmu á Dauðastjǫrnu,
ok
mǫnnum sýndisk, at þeir væri hermenn norrœnir því at þeir klæddusk
hvítri
brynju hermannanna. En þeir heyrðu, at Tarkinn ok Veiði-Anakinn tǫluðusk á
miðli hermannanna.
Veiðr kvað, “Ek hygg, at þeir leiti at gefa Leiu konungsdóttur
upplýsingar
um setning skipsins. Hon fengi gagnleg orðin enn.”
“Veiðr herra minn,” segir hermaðr, “Vér leituðum manna á skipi, en
fundum
engi. Vér hyggjum, at þat sé tálskip, en at liðit yfirgæfi skipit skǫmmu
eptir at þeir fóru frá Íslandi.”
“Fundið ér jafnvel øngva þræla?” spyrr Veiði-Anakinn.
“Øngva, herra,” segir hermaðr, “Ef nekkverir vǭru á skipi, hafa þeir
þat
yfirgefit ok.”
“It þar,” kvað Veiðr, ok hann rétti hǫndina á mót þeim
Hólmgǫngu-Hana,
“Farið aptr til skipsins, ok leitið it þess með fullnaði. Rífið þat í
sundr
unz it finnið nekkvat eða nekkvern, ok berið it nekkvern mann til dýflissu
á
viðunum með konungsdóttur. Ek kennumk við nekkvat, nekkvat þat es ek hefi
eigi kennizk síðan -” Hann þagði ok gekk á braut.
Þeir Hólmgǫngu-Hani gingu aptr til Fálkans, en Lúkr sagði Hólmgǫngu-Hana
ok
Víga-Óbívani, at hann vildi hjálpa konungsdóttur Leiu, “ok vér vissum
eigi
áðr, at hon lifði ok vas á þessu skipi.”
“Fyr hví megum vér hjálpa henni?” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “Findum sem
skjótast
ráð þat es fær øss frjálsa.”

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11833 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:33 pm
Subject: Star Wars XXIX end + beginning XXX Grace's translation
fredgrace
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En Hólmgǫngu-Hani hrópaði út á hermenn tvá þá es stóðu nær, ok es
þeir kómu,
drap hann þá
But Duel Han shouted out to those two warriors who stood nearby, and when
they came, he killed them

með øxi sína, ok sǭ engir aðrir at þetta vas gørt. Þá klæddusk þeir
Lúkr í
hvítum brynjum þeira,
with his axe, and no others saw that this had happened.  Then they Luke (and
company) clothed themselves in their white chain mail

ok þessar brynjur vǭru með hvíta hjálma, ok á hjálmana vǭru hvítar
grímur
þær es leyndu
and this chain mail was with white helmets, and on the helmets were those
white shields which hid

andlitit. Ok svá klæddir fóru þeir með aðra hermenn aptr til
Dauðastjǫrnu.
the face.  And so clad they went with other warriors back to the Death Star.

En áðr en þeir svá fóru, hvískraði Víga-Óbívan í eyru Lúki: “Hverr
es meira
fífl? Fíflit, eða fíflit þat es fylgir því fyrsta?”
But before they went thus, Slayer Obiwan whispered in Luke’s ear, “Who is a
bigger clown? The clown, or the clown who follows the first?”

XXX. Kapítuli: Frá affǫr Víga-Óbívans á Dauðastjǫrnu
Of (the) departure of Slayer Obiwan on Death Star

Nú es at segja frá því, at þeir Hólmgǫngu-Hani kvǭmu á Dauðastjǫrnu,
ok
mǫnnum sýndisk, at
Now must be told that they Duel Han (and company) came to Death Star and it
seemed to people that

þeir væri hermenn norrœnir því at þeir klæddusk hvítri brynju
hermannanna.
En þeir heyrðu, at
they were norse warriors because they were clad in white chain mail of the
warriors.  But they heard

Tarkinn ok Veiði-Anakinn tǫluðusk á miðli hermannanna.
that Tarkinn and Vader Anakinn spoke to each other among the warriors.

Veiðr kvað, “Ek hygg, at þeir leiti at gefa Leiu konungsdóttur
upplýsingar
um setning skipsins. Hon fengi gagnleg orðin enn.”
Vader said, “I think, that they seek to give Leia, daughter of the king,
information (Faroese dictionary) regarding  position of the ship.  She is
still able to be useful.”

“Veiðr herra minn,” segir hermaðr, “Vér leituðum manna á skipi, en
fundum
engi. Vér hyggjum,
“My Lord Vader,” says a warrior, “We searched on the ship for  men, but
found none.  We think

at þat sé tálskip, en at liðit yfirgæfi skipit skǫmmu eptir at þeir fóru
frá
Íslandi.”
that it is a decoy- ship   and in the end?  abandoned the ship shortly after
they went from Iceland.”

“Fundið ér jafnvel øngva þræla?” spyrr Veiði-Anakinn.
“Did ye find even any thralls?” asks Vader Anakinn.

“Øngva, herra,” segir hermaðr, “Ef nekkverir vǭru á skipi, hafa þeir
þat
yfirgefit ok.”
“None, Lord,” says the warrior, “If any were on (the) ship, they have also
abandoned it.”

“It þar,” kvað Veiðr, ok hann rétti hǫndina á mót þeim
Hólmgǫngu-Hana,
“Farið aptr til skipsins,
“Ye, thar,” said Vader, and he reached his hand towards them, Duel Han
(etc.), “Go back to the ship

ok leitið it þess með fullnaði. Rífið þat í sundr unz it finnið nekkvat
eða
nekkvern, ok berið it
and ye search that thoroughly.  Tear it apart until ye find something or
someone, and ye bring

nekkvern mann til dýflissu á viðunum með konungsdóttur. Ek kennumk við
nekkvat, nekkvat þat
some man to a dark dungeon (CV)  by the wood with (the) kings’ daughter.  I
recognize something, something that

es ek hefi eigi kennizk síðan -” Hann þagði ok gekk á braut.
which I have not recognized since,”  He was silent and went away.

Þeir Hólmgǫngu-Hani gingu aptr til Fálkans, en Lúkr sagði Hólmgǫngu-Hana
ok
Víga-Óbívani,
They Duel Han (and co.) went back to (the) Falcon and Luke told Duel Han and
Slayer Obiwan

at hann vildi hjálpa konungsdóttur Leiu, “ok vér vissum eigi áðr, at hon
lifði ok vas á þessu skipi.”
that he wanted to help Leia, the king’s daughter, “and we knew not before
that she lived and was on this ship.”

“Fyr hví megum vér hjálpa henni?” segir Hólmgǫngu-Hani, “Findum sem
skjótast
ráð þat es fær øss frjálsa.”
“Why should we help her?” says Duel Han, “(Let us) find as quickly as
possible that path which is able to free us.”

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11834 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:05 pm
Subject: Star Wars XXIX end & XXX beginning - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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En Hlmgǫngu-Hani hrpai t  hermenn tv  es stu nr, ok es eir
kmu, drap hann  me xi sna, ok sǭ engir arir at etta vas grt.
And Dueler Han shouted out to two soldiers who are standing nearby, and when
they came, he slew them with his ax, and no others saw that this was done.

 klddusk eir Lkr  hvtum brynjum eira, ok essar brynjur vǭru me
hvta hjlma, ok  hjlmana vǭru hvtar grmur r es leyndu andlitit.
Then the dressed Luke in their white coat of mail, and these coats of mail were
with white helmets, and on the helmets were the white masks which hid the face
(i.e., their faces).

Ok sv klddir fru eir me ara hermenn aptr til Dauastjǫrnu.
And so clad they went with other warriors back to the Death Star.

En r en eir sv fru, hvskrai Vga-bvan  eyru Lki: "Hverr es meira
ffl?
But before when they went so, Slayer Obiwan whispered in Luke's ears: "Where is
my fool?

Fflit, ea fflit at es fylgir v fyrsta?"
The fool, the fool that followed so first?"

XXX. Kaptuli: Fr affǫr Vga-bvans  Dauastjǫrnu
N es at segja fr v, at eir Hlmgǫngu-Hani kvǭmu 
Dauastjǫrnu, ok mǫnnum sndisk, at eir vri hermenn norrnir v at
eir klddusk hvtri brynju hermannanna.
Now it is to tell therefore, that they, Dueler Han (and company) came to the
Death Star, and seemed to people, that they were Norwegian warriors because they
were dressed (in) military white mail.

En eir heyru, at Tarkinn ok Veii-Anakinn tǫluusk  mili hermannanna.
And they heard that Tarkin and Anakin Vader were speaking among the warriors.


Veir kva, "Ek hygg, at eir leiti at gefa Leiu konungsdttur upplsingar um
setning skipsins.
Vader said, "I believe that they searched to give Princess Leia information
concerning the ship's plans.

Hon fengi gagnleg orin enn."
She still received the useful word."  (???)

"Veir herra minn," segir hermar, "Vr leituum manna  skipi, en fundum engi.
"My lord Vader," says a warrior, "We looked for people on (the) ship, but we
didn't find any.

Vr hyggjum, at at s tlskip, en at liit yfirgfi skipit skǫmmu eptir at
eir fru fr slandi."
We believe that that is a decoy ship, and that the people abandoned the ship
very recently after they went from Iceland."

"Fundi r jafnvel ngva rla?" spyrr Veii-Anakinn.
"Did you find as well any thralls?" asks Anakin Vader.

"ngva, herra," segir hermar, "Ef nekkverir vǭru  skipi, hafa eir at
yfirgefit ok."
"None, lord," says a warrior, "If any were on (the) ship, they have also
abandoned it."

"It ar," kva Veir, ok hann rtti hǫndina  mt eim Hlmgǫngu-Hana,
"Fari aptr til skipsins, ok leiti it ess me fullnai.
"You there," said Vader, and he stretched out his hand to meet them, Dueler Han
(and his companion), "Go back to the ship, and you (two) search that with
fulfillment.

Rfi at  sundr unz it finni nekkvat ea nekkvern, ok beri it nekkvern mann
til dflissu  viunum me konungsdttur.
Tear that asunder until you find something or someone, and take any person to 
prison on the bridge with (the) princess.

Ek kennumk vi nekkvat, nekkvat at es ek hefi eigi kennizk san -" Hann agi
ok gekk  braut.
I feel something, something that which I have not felt since " He became silent
and went away.

eir Hlmgǫngu-Hani gingu aptr til Flkans, en Lkr sagi
Hlmgǫngu-Hana ok Vga-bvani, at hann vildi hjlpa konungsdttur Leiu,
"ok vr vissum eigi r, at hon lifi ok vas  essu skipi."
They, Dueler Han (and companions) went back to (the) Falcon, and Luke told
Dueler Han and Slayer Obiwan, that he wanted to help Princess Leia, "and we
didn't know previously, that she lived and was on this ship."

"Fyr hv megum vr hjlpa henni?" segir Hlmgǫngu-Hani, "Findum sem
skjtast r at es fr ss frjlsa."
"Why can we help her?" says Dueler Han, "We find as soon as possible that plan,
which gets us free."

#11835 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: Star Wars XXIX end & XXX beginning - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> En áðr en þeir svá fóru, hvískraði Víga-Óbívan í eyru
> Lúki: "Hverr es meira fífl? Fíflit, eða fíflit þat es
> fylgir því fyrsta?"

> But before when they went so, Slayer Obiwan whispered in
> Luke's ears: "Where is my fool? The fool, the fool that
> followed so first?"

> But before they went thus, Slayer Obiwan whispered in
> Luke’s ear, “Who is a bigger clown? The clown, or the
> clown who follows the first?”

Grace has it, except that in this context I think that
'fool' is preferable to 'clown'.

> Nú es at segja frá því, at þeir Hólmgǫngu-Hani kvǭmu á
> Dauðastjǫrnu, ok mǫnnum sýndisk, at þeir væri hermenn
> norrœnir því at þeir klæddusk hvítri brynju hermannanna.

> Now it is to tell therefore, that they, Dueler Han (and
> company) came to the Death Star, and seemed to people,
> that they were Norwegian warriors because they were
> dressed (in) military white mail.

> Now must be told that they Duel Han (and company) came to
> Death Star and it seemed to people that they were norse
> warriors because they were clad in white chain mail of the
> warriors.

Rob: <Frá því> is simply 'of this': 'Now is to be told of
this, that they ...'.

> Veiðr kvað, "Ek hygg, at þeir leiti at gefa Leiu
> konungsdóttur upplýsingar um setning skipsins.

> Vader said, "I believe that they searched to give Princess
> Leia information concerning the ship's plans.

> Vader said, “I think, that they seek to give Leia,
> daughter of the king, information (Faroese dictionary)
> regarding position of the ship.

<Upplýsingar> 'information' can also be found in the
Icelandic Online Dictionary, but you have to search for the
singular, <upplýsing>.  The preposition <um> takes the
accusative and dative, depending on sense; <setning> clearly
isn't a dative, so it must be an accusative.  Both feminine
<setning> and masculine <setningr> have <setning> as
accusative, so both of these nouns are grammatically
possible.  In this case the glosses in Fritzner seem to me a
little more helpful than those in Zoëga.  The one that seems
to me to fit the context best is the second sense given for
<setning>, which translates more or less as 'nature,
character; manner in which something is arranged or
organized'.  (This apparently corresponds roughly to Zoëga's
(2), perhaps with a bit of (1) if 'the plan of the house'
refers to its layout as well as to its position.)  On this
reading it would be information about the design, layout, or
construction of the ship.

> Hon fengi gagnleg orðin enn."
> She still received the useful word."  (???)
> She is still able to be useful.”

Rob: This is the <fá> plus past participle construction, 'to
be able to X', with <orðin> as past part. of <vera>.

> "Fundið ér jafnvel øngva þræla?" spyrr Veiði-Anakinn.
> "Did you find as well any thralls?" asks Anakin Vader.
> “Did ye find even any thralls?” asks Vader Anakinn.

I'd go with 'even'.

> "It þar," kvað Veiðr, ok hann rétti hǫndina á mót þeim
> Hólmgǫngu-Hana, "Farið aptr til skipsins, ok leitið it
> þess með fullnaði.

> "You there," said Vader, and he stretched out his hand to
> meet them, Dueler Han (and his companion), "Go back to the
> ship, and you (two) search that with fulfillment.

> “Ye, thar,” said Vader, and he reached his hand towards
> them, Duel Han (etc.), “Go back to the ship and ye search
> that thoroughly.

Note that <(þ)it> is the dual, so it's 'you two'.  Rob: <á
mót(i)> and <í mót(i)> very often function as compound
prepositions meaning 'toward'.

> Rífið þat í sundr unz it finnið nekkvat eða nekkvern, ok
> berið it nekkvern mann til dýflissu á viðunum með
> konungsdóttur.

> Tear that asunder until you find something or someone, and
> take any person to prison on the bridge with (the)
> princess.

> Tear it apart until ye find something or someone, and ye
> bring some man to a dark dungeon (CV) by the wood with
> (the) kings’ daughter.

<Á viðunum> is a little tricky, since it could be the dative
plural + article of either <viðr> or <viða>.  The only sense
of <viðr> that seems even slightly appropriate in context is
'mast', which is also a sense of <viða>, so for all
practical purposes we can concentrate on <viða>.  CV (II)
looks very good: 'a high deck or bridge raised as a shelter,
amidships, on ships of war', with citations showing its use
in the plural in connection with a single ship.  I followed
up the citations in an attempt to get a better idea of just
what the thing was.  Most of them are from 'Sverris saga',
in which the word seems to be quite frequent; they offer
little in the way of description, but they do make it clear
that the <viða> was specifically a feature of warships, that
it was located near the mast, that a commander could stand
on it to address his men, and that one could also be under
it.  A couple of examples:

   Síðan stóð konungr upp á viðuna, ok bað menn gefa at gaum
   vendiliga hvat hann sagði; ...  (Ch. 158)

   Then the king stood up on the <viða> and bade men
   carefully pay attention to what he said; ...

   Hallvarðr hafði hrokkit fram ór lyptingunni, ok á mitt
   skipit fyrir aptan siglu undir viðurnar, ok var hann þar
   drepinn.  (Ch. 159)

   Hallvarðr had been driven from the raised deck in the
   stern to the middle of the ship aft of the mast under the
   <viður>, and he was killed there.

The prize, though, is this explanation from 'Konungs
skuggssjá', Ch. 37, which gives a fairly clear picture:

   En þenna umbúnað þarf á skipi at hafa til varnar:
   víggyrðla vel ok vígæsa rammliga, leggja hátt viður ok
   gera undir viðu fjögur gagnskeytilig hlið svá mikil, at
   einn maðr eða báðir tveir megi rúmliga hlaupa með öllum
   vápnum sínum gögnum; en gera með bryggjum útan tvá vega
   slétt stræti til ástigs hjá viðum.

   And it is necessary to have this preparation on a ship for
   defense: to fortify well with battle shelters and to
   furnish strongly with war-beams, to raise high the <viður>
   and make under the <viða> four openings to be shot
   through, so large that one man or two together could run
   through with all their weapons; and on two sides make with
   gangways from outside a level 'street' for walking on by
   the <viður>.

It seems to me that it would have made more sense to have
the dungeon <undir viðunum>; I can only guess that <á> is
being used here in the sense 'in'.

I see now that Jackson doesn't actually translate <viðunum>:
he simply uses <á viðunum> as a paraphrase for 'amidships'.
I wonder whether he could alternatively have said <til
dýflissu á miðu skipinu>.

Brian

#11836 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:19 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 36 beginning
fredgrace
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36. kafli - Af Kotkeli og Grmu
essi tindi spyrjast va og mlast illa fyrir. ttu a lfismenn er
slka fjlkynngi frmdu sem au Kotkell hfu  lst. Miki tti Gurnu
a um lflt rar og var hn  eigi heil og mjg frama. Gurn fddi
svein. S var vatni ausinn og kallaur rur.
 enna tma bj Snorri goi a Helgafelli. Hann var frndi svfurs og vin.
ttu au Gurn ar miki traust. anga fr Snorri goi a heimboi. 
tji Gurn etta vandkvi fyrir Snorra en hann kvast mundu veita eim a
mlum  er honum sndist en bau Gurnu barnfstur til hugganar vi hana.
etta  Gurn og kvast hans forsj hlta mundu. essi rur var kallaur
kttur, fair Stfs sklds.
San fer Gestur Oddleifsson  fund Hallsteins goa og geri honum tvo
kosti, a hann skyldi reka  brott essa fjlkunnigu menn ella kvast hann
mundu drepa  "og er  ofseina."
Hallsteinn kaus skjtt og ba au heldur  brott fara og nema hvergi staar
fyrir vestan Dalaheii og kva rttara a au vru drepin. San fru au
Kotkell  brott og hfu eigi meira f en sthross fjgur. Var hesturinn
svartur. Hann var bi mikill og vnn og reyndur a vgi. Ekki er geti um
fer eirra ur au koma  Kambsnes til orleiks Hskuldssonar. Hann falar
a eim hrossin v a hann s a a voru afreksgripir.
Kotkell svarar: "Gera skal r kost  v. Tak vi hrossunum en f mr
bsta nokkurn hr  nnd r."
orleikur mlti: "Munu  eigi heldur dr hrossin v a eg hefi a spurt
a r munu eiga heldur sktt hr  hrai?"
Kotkell svarar: "etta muntu mla til Laugamanna."
orleikur kva a satt vera.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11837 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:42 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 36 beginning - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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36. kafli - Af Kotkeli og Grímu
Þessi tíðindi spyrjast víða og mælast illa fyrir. Þóttu það
ólífismenn er
slíka fjölkynngi frömdu
These tidings were widely learned of and spoken badly of.  It was thought
(they were) deserving of death who practiced such magic

sem þau Kotkell höfðu þá lýst. Mikið þótti Guðrúnu að um líflát
Þórðar og
var hún þá eigi heil
as they, Kotkell (and company) had then performed.  Gudrun was much affected
by Thord’s death and she was then not well

og mjög framað. Guðrún fæddi svein. Sá var vatni ausinn og kallaður
Þórður.
and very far into pregnancy.  Gudrun gave birth to a boy.  That one was
sprinkled with water and called Thord.

Í þenna tíma bjó Snorri goði að Helgafelli. Hann var frændi Ósvífurs og
vin.
Áttu þau Guðrún
At this time Chieftain Snorri lived in Helgafell.  He was Osvif’s kinsman
and friend.  They, Gudrun (and son) had

þar mikið traust. Þangað fór Snorri goði að heimboði. Þá tjáði
Guðrún þetta
vandkvæði fyrir
much help there.  Chieftain Snorri went thither at an invitation.  Then
Gudrun told Snorri these troubles

Snorra en hann kvaðst mundu veita þeim að málum þá er honum sýndist en
bauð
Guðrúnu
and he said he would help them in each of those cases?  when it seemed to
him (proper) and offered Gudrun

barnfóstur til hugganar við hana. Þetta þá Guðrún og kvaðst hans forsjá
hlíta mundu. Þessi
to foster (her son) to comfort her.  Gudrun accepted this and said  she
would be content with his foresight.

Þórður var kallaður köttur, faðir Stúfs skálds.
For this reason Thord was called cat, father of Stuf the poet.

Síðan fer Gestur Oddleifsson á fund Hallsteins goða og gerði honum tvo
kosti, að hann skyldi
Afterwards Gest Oddleif’s son goes to a meeting with Chieftain Hallstein and
gave him two choices, (one:) that he should

reka í brott þessa fjölkunnigu menn ella kvaðst hann mundu drepa þá "og er
þó ofseinað."
drive these sorcerer people away or (two:) he would kill them “and (it) is
still too late.”

Hallsteinn kaus skjótt og bað þau heldur í brott fara og nema hvergi staðar
fyrir vestan Dalaheiði
Hallstein chose quickly and bade them to go rather quickly and neither to
stop west of Dala Heath

og kvað réttara að þau væru drepin. Síðan fóru þau Kotkell í brott og
höfðu
eigi meira fé en
and said more properly would they be slain.  Afterwards they, Kotkell (and
company) went away and had no more property than

stóðhross fjögur. Var hesturinn svartur. Hann var bæði mikill og vænn og
reyndur að vígi. Ekki
four breeding horses.  The stallion was black.  He was both large and
promising and proven at battle.

er getið um ferð þeirra áður þau koma á Kambsnes til Þorleiks
Höskuldssonar.
Hann falar að
Nothing is spoken about regarding their journey before they come to Comb’s
Ness to Thorleik Hoskuld’s son.  He demands to purchase

þeim hrossin því að hann sá að það voru afreksgripir.
that horse because he saw that it was a thing of great value.

Kotkell svarar: "Gera skal þér kost á því. Tak við hrossunum en fá mér
bústað nokkurn hér í nánd þér."
Kotkell answers, “You shall make a choice in it.  Accept the horse and give
me  some homestead here in proximity to you.”

Þorleikur mælti: "Munu þá eigi heldur dýr hrossin því að eg hefi það
spurt
að þér munuð eiga
Thorleik spoke, “Then will not the horse (be?) rather dear because I have
learned it that you will have

heldur sökótt hér í héraði?"
rather many quarrels here in (the) district?”

Kotkell svarar: "Þetta muntu mæla til Laugamanna."
Kotkell answers, “This would be to speak to Lauga folk.”

Þorleikur kvað það satt vera.
Thorleik said it to be true.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#11838 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:52 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 36 beginning - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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There were a number of spots below where I clearly missed the meaning.

kafli - Af Kotkeli og Grmu
Concerning Kotkel and Grim

essi tindi spyrjast va og mlast illa fyrir.
This news was reported far and wide and was spoken ill of.


ttu a lfismenn er slka fjlkynngi frmdu sem au Kotkell hfu  lst.
It was thought the deadmen (?) such as performed sorcery as they, Kotkel (and
the others) had then strike. (???)

Miki tti Gurnu a um lflt rar og var hn  eigi heil og mjg frama.
Many thought Gudrun that concerning Thord's death and she was then not happy and
very ( frama?).

Gurn fddi svein.
Gudrun gave birth to a boy.

S var vatni ausinn og kallaur rur.
He (literally, that one) was sprinkled with water and named Thord.


 enna tma bj Snorri goi a Helgafelli.
At this time Snorri the chief lived at Helgafell.


Hann var frndi svfurs og vin.
He was a relative and friend of Osvif's.


ttu au Gurn ar miki traust.
They, Gudrun (and he), had much help.


anga fr Snorri goi a heimboi.
Snorri the chief went there by invitation.

 tji Gurn etta vandkvi fyrir Snorra en hann kvast mundu veita eim a
mlum  er honum sndist en bau Gurnu barnfstur til hugganar vi hana.
Gudrun then reported this trouble before Snorra and he stated for himself that
he would give them to the matter then which seemed to him and ask to foster
Gudrun's child until comfort with her. (?????)


etta  Gurn og kvast hans forsj hlta mundu.
Gudrun then (accepted?) this and stated for herself (that she) would rely on his
foresight.


essi rur var kallaur kttur, fair Stfs sklds.
This Thord was named "cat," the poet Stuf's father.


San fer Gestur Oddleifsson  fund Hallsteins goa og geri honum tvo kosti, a
hann skyldi reka  brott essa fjlkunnigu menn ella kvast hann mundu drepa 
"og er  ofseina."
Then Gest Oddleifson went to meet Hallstein the priest and gave him two choices,
that he should drive away these sorcery men or stated for himself he would kill
them "and yet ( ofseina?)."


Hallsteinn kaus skjtt og ba au heldur  brott fara og nema hvergi staar
fyrir vestan Dalaheii og kva rttara a au vru drepin.
Hallstein decided swiftly and asked them rather to go away and each one take
places west beyond Dalaheid and said justice that they were to be slain.


San fru au Kotkell  brott og hfu eigi meira f en sthross fjgur.
Then they, Kotkell (and the others) went away and didn't have (any) more
property than four stud horses.

Var hesturinn svartur.
The horse was black.


Hann var bi mikill og vnn og reyndur a vgi.
He was both large and beautiful and experienced at fighting.

Ekki er geti um fer eirra ur au koma  Kambsnes til orleiks
Hskuldssonar.
Their journey was not spoken about (?) before they came to Kamb's-ness to
Thorleik Hoskuldson.


Hann falar a eim hrossin v a hann s a a voru afreksgripir.
He demanded for purchase of them the horse because he saw that that one was a
thing of great value.


Kotkell svarar: "Gera skal r kost  v.
Kotkell answers" "You shall give a choice concerning them.


Tak vi hrossunum en f mr bsta nokkurn hr  nnd r."
Received the horses and let me stay awhile here in your neighborhood."


orleikur mlti: "Munu  eigi heldur dr hrossin v a eg hefi a spurt a
r munu eiga heldur sktt hr  hrai?"
Thorleik said: "Wouldn't then not be rather an expensive horse as I have heard
that that you will rather have many quarrels here in the district?"


Kotkell svarar: "etta muntu mla til Laugamanna."
Kotkell answers: "The people of Lauga would claim this."


orleikur kva a satt vera.
Thorleik said that would be true.

#11839 From: "Alan Thompson" <alanthompson@...>
Date: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:39 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 36 beginning / Alan's Translation
alysseann
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Here’s my translation

 

Kveja

Alan

 

36. kafli - Af Kotkeli og Grmu
Chapter 36 – Of Kotkell and Grma

essi tindi spyrjast va og mlast illa fyrir. ttu a lfismenn er
These tidings are-reported widely and are ill-spoken of. Those (grammatically sg) were-reckoned (ykkja) persons-deserving death who

slka fjlkynngi frmdu (freyma) sem au Kotkell hfu lst. Miki tti Gurnu
would-practice such sorcery as they, Kotkell (and family) had then shown (lsa, Z2). (It) seemed (of) great (moment) to Gurn (ie she took it much to heart, see ykkja, Z2)

a um lflt rar og var hn eigi heil og mjg frama. Gurn fddi
concerning (the) death (life-loss) of rr and she was then not hale (in a delicate condition, ie with child) and far advanced (with child, frama, Z1). Gurn gave-birth-to

svein. S var vatni ausinn og kallaur rur.
a boy. That-one (ie he) was sprinkled with water and called rr.

enna tma bj Snorri goi a Helgafelli. Hann var frndi svfurs og vin.
At this time, Snorri goi (priest-chieftain) lived at Helgafell. He was a kinsman of svfr and a friend.

ttu au Gurn ar miki traust. anga fr Snorri goi a heimboi.
They, Gurn (and svfr?) had there (from that quarter) much support. Thither Snorri goi (priest-chieftain) went at (their) invitation. Then

tji Gurn etta vandkvi fyrir Snorra en hann kvast mundu veita eim a
Gurn showed (revealed, reported) this trouble to Snorri but (and) he declared-of-himself (that he) would help (veita, Z2) them in

mlum er honum sndist en bau Gurnu barnfstur til hugganar vi hana.
(their) affairs when (it) seemed meet to him (ie when he thought fit, see snast, Z2) but (and) offered to Gurn fostering of (her) child as a comfort for her.

etta Gurn og kvast hans forsj hlta mundu. essi rur var kallaur
Gurn accepted ( is past tense of iggja) this and declared-of-herself (that she) would trust (rely on, hlta, Z1) his foresight. This (essi = sj, this, masc sg) rr was called

kttur, fair Stfs sklds.
(the) cat, father of (the) skaldic-poet Stfr.

San fer Gestur Oddleifsson fund Hallsteins goa og geri honum tvo
After-that Gestr Oddleifr’-son goes to a meeting of (ie to see) Hallstein goi (priest-chieftain) and gave him two

kosti, a hann skyldi reka brott essa fjlkunnigu menn ella kvast hann
choices, that he should drive away these people skilled-in-magic or he declared-of-himself (that he)

mundu drepa "og er ofseina."
would kill them “and (but)(it) is still too-late (see seina, Z1).”

Hallsteinn kaus (kjsa) skjtt og ba au heldur brott fara og nema hvergi staar
Hallstein chose speedily and ordered them rather to go away and to take no pause (ie not stop) nowhere (anywhere)

fyrir vestan Dalaheii og kva rttara a au vru drepin. San fru au
west of Dalaheir and declared (it) more-right (more-just, comparitive of rttr) that they should-be killed. After-that they,

Kotkell brott og hfu eigi meira f en sthross fjgur (fjrir) . Var hesturinn
Kotkell (and family) went away and had no more property than four stud-horses. The stallion (in this context) was

svartur. Hann var bi mikill og vnn og reyndur a vgi. Ekki er geti um
black. He was both tall and beautiful and proven in battle (here: horse-fights). (It) is not recorded (ie mentioned in the sources, geta, Z.ii.2) about

fer eirra ur au koma Kambsnes til orleiks Hskuldssonar. Hann falar
their journey before they come to Kambsnes to orleikr Hskuldr’s-son. He demands-to-purchase

a eim hrossin v a hann s a a voru afreksgripir.
from them the-horses (neuter plural with suffixed definite article –in) because he saw that they (grammatically sg) were things-of-great-value.

Kotkell svarar: "Gera skal r kost v. Tak vi hrossunum en f mr
Kotkell answers: “(I) shall grant a choice (make terms?) for you (r is dative case) on that. Accept (imperative) the-horses but get (give) me

bsta nokkurn hr nnd r."
some dwelling-place here in proximity to you (in your neighbourhood).”

orleikur mlti: "Munu eigi heldur dr hrossin v a eg hefi a spurt
orleikr spoke: “Will (they) not (be) rather expensive horses (plural), because I have that heard

a r munu eiga heldur sktt hr hrai?"
that you will have rather more quarrels here in (the) district)?”

Kotkell svarar: "etta muntu mla til Laugamanna."
Kotkell answers: ‘This you-will (munt + ) be-speaking of (referring to) (the) people-of-Laugar (genitive).”

orleikur kva a satt vera.
orleikr declared this to be true (not conditional).






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