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#12342 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Sat May 26, 2012 5:43 am
Subject: Re: Kjalnesinga Saga 17 part 2 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> Var hann út leiddur ...
> He was laid (does leiddur = laid?) out ...
> He was laid out ...
> He was led out (to the grave, ie buried) ...

Rob, Grace: see <leiða> Z4.

> Á þeirri stundu fékk Vakur Þuríðar dóttur Búa og Ólafar.

> At their time Vakr Thuridr got a daughter of Bui and Olaf.
> (?)

> In those times Vak married Thurid, daughter of Bui and
> Olof.

> In that time, Vakr got (in marriage) Þuríðr, Búi´s and
> Ólöf’s daughter.

'At this time': <þeirri> is the proximal demonstrative, not
the distal.

> Þegar er Jökull kom á land keypti hann sér hesta og
> föruneyti.

> As soon as Jokull landed, he bought himself a horse and a
> company (of men).

> As soon as Jokull came ashore, he bought himself a horse
> also (for his) comrades (or his comrades also bought
> horses?).

> As-soon as Jökull came ashore (onto land) he bought for
> himself horses and (his) retinue (did likewise).

Grace: <föruneyti> is nominative, so they must be buying,
not being bought for.

> Þeir voru þar um nóttina því að þar var öllum mönnum matur
> til reiðu.

> They were there during the night because there was for all
> men food ready (to eat).

> They stayed there during the night because there food was
> ready at hand for all people.

> They were (stayed) there during the-night because food
> (provisions) for (those who were) riding were there for
> all persons.

Grace is right about <til reiðu>: see <reiða> (f) Z3, <vera
til reiðu> 'be ready at hand'.

> Búi segir: "Ólíkleg sögn er að þú sért minn son því að mér
> þætti von að sá mundi vera gildur maður er undir okkur
> ælist en mér sýnist þú heldur auðþriflegur."

> Bui says: "(It) is an unlikely story that you would be my
> son because it seemed to me an expectation that that one
> would be a great man who is born under us but it seemed to
> me (that) you (are) rather weak."

> Bui says, “Unlikely is (it) said that you be my son
> because to me it seems to be expected that that would be a
> worthy man who would be descended?? from us but you seem
> to me rather feeble.”

> Búi says “(It) is an improbable tale that you are my son
> because expectation would-seem for me (ie my expectation
> would be) that that-one (ie he, my son) would be a worthy
> man (person) who-would-be begotten under us (by us? in our
> image?) but you seem to me rather feeble.”

'By us'.  See <undir> Z1: <undir þeim hesti var alinn
Eiðfaxi> 'that horse was the sire of Eiðfaxi'.

Brian

#12343 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Tue May 29, 2012 11:10 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 2
fredgrace
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orkell mlti: "egi skjtt," segir hann. "Mun fli inn nokkurum manni lf
gefa ef bana verur aui? Er a og satt a segja a eg spari hvoriga til
a eir eigi n svo illt saman sem eim lkar. Snist mr a betra r a
vi komum okkur ar a okkur s vi engu htt en vi megum sem gerst sj
fundinn og hfum gaman af leik eirra v a a gta allir a Kjartan s
vgur hverjum manni betur. Vntir mig og a hann urfi n ess v a okkur
er a kunnigt a rinn er lismunur."
Og var svo a vera sem orkell vildi.
eir Kjartan ra fram a Hafragili.
En  annan sta gruna eir svfurssynir hv Bolli mun sr hafa ar svo
staar leita er hann mtti vel sj  er menn riu vestan. eir gera n r
sitt og tti sem Bolli mundi eim eigi vera trr, ganga a honum upp 
brekkuna og brugu  glmu og  glens og tku  ftur honum og drgu hann
ofan fyrir brekkuna.
En  Kjartan bar brtt a er eir riu hart og er eir komu suur yfir
gili  su eir fyrirstina og kenndu mennina. Kjartan spratt egar af
baki og sneri  mti eim svfurssonum. ar st steinn einn mikill. ar
ba Kjartan  vi taka. En ur eir mttust skaut Kjartan spjtinu og kom
 skjld rlfs fyrir ofan mundriann og bar a honum skjldinn vi.
Spjti gekk  gegnum skjldinn og handlegginn fyrir ofan olboga og tk ar
 sundur aflvvann. Lt rlfur  lausan skjldinn og var honum nt
hndin um daginn. San br Kjartan sverinu og hafi eigi konungsnaut.
rhllusynir runnu  rarin v a eim var a hlutverk tla. Var s
atgangur harur v a rarinn var rammur a afli. eir voru og vel knir.
Mtti ar og varla  milli sj hvorir ar mundu drjgari vera.  sttu
eir svfurssynir a Kjartani og Gulaugur. Voru eir sex en eir Kjartan
og n tveir. n varist vel og vildi  ganga fram fyrir Kjartan. Bolli st
hj me Ftbt. Kjartan hj strt en sveri dugi illa.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12344 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Tue May 29, 2012 7:55 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 2 - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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Þorkell mælti: "Þegi skjótt," segir hann. "Mun fóli þinn nokkurum manni
líf
gefa ef bana verður
Thorkell spoke, “Be quiet immediately!” says he, “ (couldn’t make out
the
construction) to some man to give (him) life if (he) is fated to die.

auðið? Er það og satt að segja að eg spari hvoriga til að þeir eigi nú
svo
illt saman sem þeim
It is also true to say that I spare neither that they (have? ) not such evil
together as they please?

líkar. Sýnist mér það betra ráð að við komum okkur þar að okkur sé
við engu
hætt en við megum
It seems to me a better plan that we bring ourselves there that to us be no
risk but we are able

sem gerst sjá fundinn og höfum gaman af leik þeirra því að það ágæta
allir
að Kjartan sé vígur
to see when the meeting happens and we have (enjoyment of) a game of theirs
because all praise it that Kjartan be in better fighting condition

hverjum manni betur. Væntir mig og að hann þurfi nú þess því að okkur er
það
kunnigt að ærinn er liðsmunur."
(compared to) any men.  I expect also that he stands in need of this because
it is known to us that
(the) odds are sufficient.

Og varð svo að vera sem Þorkell vildi.
And it happened to be so as Thorkell wished.

Þeir Kjartan ríða fram að Hafragili.
They, Kjartan (and co.) ride forward to Hafra Gully.

En í annan stað gruna þeir Ósvífurssynir hví Bolli mun sér hafa þar svo
staðar leitað er hann
But in another location they, Osvif’s sons, suspect why Bolli will have
chosen a location where he

mátti vel sjá þá er menn riðu vestan. Þeir gera nú ráð sitt og þótti
sem
Bolli mundi þeim eigi vera
might well see then when men rode from the west.  They make up their minds
and it seemed that Bolli would not be true to them,

trúr, ganga að honum upp í brekkuna og brugðu á glímu og á glens og tóku
í
fætur honum og drógu hann ofan fyrir brekkuna.
(they) go up to him on the slope and used wrestling tricks and banter and
took (hold) of his feet and dragged him down over the slope.

En þá Kjartan bar brátt að er þeir riðu hart og er þeir komu suður yfir
gilið þá sáu þeir fyrirsátina og
But then Kjartan came suddenly upon them (in) that they rode hard and when
they came south over the gully then they saw the ambush and

kenndu mennina. Kjartan spratt þegar af baki og sneri í móti þeim
Ósvífurssonum. Þar stóð steinn einn
recognized the men.  Kjartan dismounted immediately and turns towards them,
Osvif’s sons.  A very large stone stood there.

mikill. Þar bað Kjartan þá við taka. En áður þeir mættust skaut Kjartan
spjótinu og kom í skjöld Þórólfs
Kjartan bade them make a bold resistance there.  But before they reached
each other, Kjartan shot with a spear and (it) came in Thorolf’s shield

fyrir ofan mundriðann og bar að honum skjöldinn við. Spjótið gekk í
gegnum
skjöldinn og handlegginn
above the handle of the shield and took the shield against him.  The spear
went through the shield and the arm

fyrir ofan olboga og tók þar í sundur aflvöðvann. Lét Þórólfur þá
lausan
skjöldinn og var honum ónýt
above the elbow and took the biceps apart.  Thorolf let the shield loose and
the arm was useless to him

höndin um daginn. Síðan brá Kjartan sverðinu og hafði eigi konungsnaut.
Þórhöllusynir runnu á Þórarin
during the day.  Afterwards Kjartan drew the sword, but did not have the
king’s-gift.  Thorhalla’s sons ran to Thorarinn

því að þeim var það hlutverk ætlað. Var sá atgangur harður því að
Þórarinn
var rammur að afli. Þeir voru
because the task was expected of them.  That attack was hard because
Thorarinn was strong.  They were

og vel knáir. Mátti þar og varla í milli sjá hvorir þar mundu drjúgari
verða. Þá sóttu þeir Ósvífurssynir að
also very vigorous. (It) was scarcely possible there to see between who
there would get the better (of the clash).  Then they, Osvif’s sons,
attacked

Kjartani og Guðlaugur. Voru þeir sex en þeir Kjartan og Án tveir. Án
varðist
vel og vildi æ ganga fram fyrir
Kjartan and Gudlaug.  They were six but they, Kjartan and An, two.  An
defended himself well and always wanted to go forward before

Kjartan. Bolli stóð hjá með Fótbít. Kjartan hjó stórt en sverðið
dugði illa.
Kjartan.  Bolli stood nearby with Footbiter.  Kjartan hewed hard, but the
sword did not serve him well.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12345 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Tue May 29, 2012 10:01 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 2 - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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orkell mlti: "egi skjtt," segir hann.
Thorkell said: "Shut up right now (or less literally "Don't say another word"),"
he says.

"Mun fli inn nokkurum manni lf gefa ef bana verur aui?
"Will your fool give life to some man if death falls to his lot (i.e., if it is
his lot to die)?   (Z. auit - e-m verr e-s auit, it falls to one's lot)

Er a og satt a segja a eg spari hvoriga til a eir eigi n svo illt saman
sem eim lkar.
It is also true to say that I leave it to neither side so that they would now
quarrel so together as they like.   (like Z. eiga 5 - e. illt vi e-n, to
quarrel with)

Snist mr a betra r a vi komum okkur ar a okkur s vi engu htt en vi
megum sem gerst sj fundinn og hfum gaman af leik eirra v a a gta allir
a Kjartan s vgur hverjum manni betur.
That seems to me a better plan that we take ourselves there that to us would be
in no danger but we are able as becomes (to) see the meeting and we have (the)
pleasure of their sport because that, all commend highly Kjartan would be able
to fight any man better.

Vntir mig og a hann urfi n ess v a okkur er a kunnigt a rinn er
lismunur."
I expect also that he is in need now of that because to us that is known that
the odds are substantial."

Og var svo a vera sem orkell vildi.
And it so became to be as Thorkell wanted.

eir Kjartan ra fram a Hafragili.
They, Kjartan (and the others) ride forward to Hafragili (goat-gulley).

En  annan sta gruna eir svfurssynir hv Bolli mun sr hafa ar svo staar
leita er hann mtti vel sj  er menn riu vestan.
And in another place they, the sons of Osvifr, doubt what Bolli will himself
have there so a spot searched that he was able to see well when men rode from
the west.

eir gera n r sitt og tti sem Bolli mundi eim eigi vera trr, ganga a
honum upp  brekkuna og brugu  glmu og  glens og tku  ftur honum og drgu
hann ofan fyrir brekkuna.
They now make up their mind and it seemed to them Bolli would not be faithful,
go to him up the slope and pretend wrestling also in jest in his feet and
dragged him down over the slope.       (Z. gra 1 - g. r sitt, to make up
one's mind) (Z. b. e-u , to give out, pretend)

En  Kjartan bar brtt a er eir riu hart og er eir komu suur yfir gili 
su eir fyrirstina og kenndu mennina.
And then Kjartan quickly reported (?) that they rode hard when they come south
over the ravine, then they saw the ambushes (why plural?) and recognized the
men.

Kjartan spratt egar af baki og sneri  mti eim svfurssonum.
Kjartan sprang at once off horseback and turned against them, the sons of
Osvifr.

ar st steinn einn mikill.
A large stone stood there.

ar ba Kjartan  vi taka.
Kjartan asked them there to receive him well. (?)

En ur eir mttust skaut Kjartan spjtinu og kom  skjld rlfs fyrir ofan
mundriann og bar a honum skjldinn vi.
But before they were able, Kjartan shot a spear and it came in Thorolf's shield
above the handle of the shield and carried to him the shield with (it).

Spjti gekk  gegnum skjldinn og handlegginn fyrir ofan olboga og tk ar 
sundur aflvvann.
The spear went through the shield and forearm below (the) elbow and there cut
asunder the biceps.

Lt rlfur  lausan skjldinn og var honum nt hndin um daginn.
Then Thorolf let loose (i.e., dropped) the shield and his hand was useless to
him during the day.

San br Kjartan sverinu og hafi eigi konungsnaut.
Then Kjratan drew his sword and he didn't have the king's gift (sword).

rhllusynir runnu  rarin v a eim var a hlutverk tla.
Thorholl's sons ran at Thorarin because that task was allotted to them.

Var s atgangur harur v a rarinn var rammur a afli.
The fighting was hard because Thorarin was strong.

eir voru og vel knir.
They were also very strong.

Mtti ar og varla  milli sj hvorir ar mundu drjgari vera.
There could scarcely see (i.e., be seen) between (the two parties) who there
would get the better of it.    (Z. drjgr - vera drjgari (drjgastr), to get
the better (best) of it;

 sttu eir svfurssynir a Kjartani og Gulaugur.
Then they, Osvigur's sons and Gudlaugr, attacked Kjartan.

Voru eir sex en eir Kjartan og n tveir.
They were six, but they, Kjartan and An, two.

n varist vel og vildi  ganga fram fyrir Kjartan.
An defended himself well and wanted always (to) go before in front of Kjartan.

Bolli st hj me Ftbt.
Bolli stood nearby with Fotbit (leg bite).

Kjartan hj strt en sveri dugi illa.
Kjartan struck hard, but the sword did poor service.

#12346 From: "Alan Thompson" <alanthompson@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2012 11:16 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 2 / Alan's Translation
alysseann
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Here’s my translation

 

Alan

 

orkell mlti: "egi skjtt," segir hann. "Mun fli inn nokkurum manni lf gefa
orkell spoke: „Be-silent at-once (or less literally: put a sock in it!),“ he says. „Wilt thou fool (cf hundrinn inn, under inn, Z1) give life to (ie save) some person (man)

ef bana verur aui? Er a og satt a segja a eg spari hvoriga til
if (he) becomes destined for death (doomed). That is also true to say that I should-spare neither (of them) from (that)

a eir eigi n svo illt saman sem eim lkar. Snist mr a betra r a
that they now should-have ill together (ie quarrel) as pleases them (ie if they want to fight far be it from me to interfere). That seems to me a better plan that

vi komum okkur ar a okkur s vi engu htt en vi megum sem gerst sj
we bring ourselves there where for us (it) would-be for us exposed-to-danger from nothing (ie to where we would be safe, see httr, Z4) but (and) we can, as (it) happens, see

fundinn og hfum gaman af leik eirra v a a gta allir a Kjartan s
the-battle and have pleasure from their sport because al highly-commend that, that Kjartan be

vgur hverjum manni betur. Vntir mig og a hann urfi n ess
better able-to-fight (skilled in arms) (than) any person (man). (It) gives-expectation to me (I expect) also that he now stands-in-need of that

v a okkur er a kunnigt a rinn er lismunur."
because that is evident to us that the-odds-against are sufficient (ie enough to make it a real contest).”

Og var svo a vera sem orkell vildi.
And (it) needs be just as orkell wanted (ie orkell naturally got his way).

eir Kjartan ra fram a Hafragili.
They Kjartan (and co) ride forward to Hafragil (He-goats’-gully)

En annan sta gruna eir svfurssynir hv Bolli mun sr hafa ar svo staar leita
But on-the-other-hand they, svfr’s-sons suspect why Bolli will have thus sought for himself a spot there

er hann mtti vel sj er menn riu vestan. eir gera n r sitt
where he might easily see (or where (they) might easily see him?) then when men (persons) ride from-(the)-west. They make (devise) now their counsel (decide what’s what, make up their mind)

og tti sem Bolli mundi eim eigi vera trr, ganga a honum upp
and (it) seemed like Bolli would not be faithful to them, (they) walk up to him on

brekkuna og brugu glmu og glens og tku ftur honum og drgu hann
the-slope and begin wrestling (see brega e-t, Z7) and gibing and took in (hand) his legs (grabbed him by the legs) and drew him

ofan fyrir brekkuna.
down the-slope.

En Kjartan bar brtt a er eir riu hart og er eir komu suur yfir
But then (it) carried Kjartan suddenly towards (them) (ie he approached quickly, see bera, Z.ii.1) when they rode hard and when they came south over

gili su eir fyrirstina og kenndu mennina. Kjartan spratt egar af
the-gully then they saw the-ambush (fem acc sg with def art suffixed) and recognised the-persons (men). Kjartan sprang at-once from

baki og sneri mti eim svfurssonum. ar st steinn einn mikill.
(horse) back and turned towards them, svfr’s-sons. A certain large stone stood there.

ar ba Kjartan vi taka. En ur eir mttust skaut Kjartan spjtinu og kom
Kjartan bade them make-resistance (make their stand) (cf eir tku vel vi, Z12) there (he learnt this tactic from Bi J). But before they met-one-another, Kjartan shot the-spear and (it) came

skjld rlfs fyrir ofan mundriann og bar a honum skjldinn vi.
into rlfr’s shield above the shield-handle and (it) carried towards him with the-shield (ie forcing the shield against his body).

Spjti gekk gegnum skjldinn og handlegginn fyrir ofan olboga og tk ar sundur aflvvann
The-spear went through the-shield and arm above the (elbow) and took the biceps-muscle asunder.

Lt rlfur lausan skjldinn og var honum nt hndin um daginn.
rlfr let free (let go) then the-shield and his arm was useless during the-day (ie for the duration).

San br Kjartan sverinu og hafi eigi konungsnaut.
After-that Kjartan brandished the-sword and (but) (he) had not ‘King’s-Gift’ (presumably this was deliberate on his part, either consciously or subconsciously).

rhllusynir runnu rarin v a eim var a hlutverk tla.
rhalla’s-sons ran at rarinn because that allotted-task was intended for them.

Var s atgangur harur v a rarinn var rammur a afli. eir voru og vel knir.
That attack was hard because rarinn was mighty of physical-strength. They were also well hardy.

Mtti ar og varla milli sj hvorir ar mundu drjgari vera.
There (one) might also scarcely see in between (ie determine) which-of-the-two (parties) there would be more-resilient (ie outlast the other)

sttu eir svfurssynir a Kjartani og Gulaugur. Voru eir sex en eir Kjartan
Then they svfr’s-son and Gulaugr attacked Kjartan. They were six but they, Kjartan

og n tveir. n varist vel og vildi ganga fram fyrir Kjartan. Bolli st
and n two. n defended-himself well and wanted always to walk forward (advance) in-front-of Kjartan. Bolli stood

hj me Ftbt. Kjartan hj strt en sveri dugi illa.
by with Ftbtr (Leg-Biter). Kjartan hew greatly but the-sword performed poorly (was not up to it)




#12347 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 2 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> En í annan stað gruna þeir Ósvífurssynir hví Bolli mun sér
> hafa þar svo staðar leitað er hann mátti vel sjá þá er
> menn riðu vestan.

> And in another place they, the sons of Osvifr, doubt what
> Bolli will himself have there so a spot searched that he
> was able to see well when men rode from the west.

> But in another location they, Osvif’s sons, suspect why
> Bolli will have chosen a location where he might well see
> then when men rode from the west.

> But on-the-other-hand they, Ósvífr’s-sons suspect why
> Bolli will have thus sought for himself a spot there where
> he might easily see (or where (they) might easily see
> him?) then when men (persons) ride from-(the)-west.

<Mátti> can only be 3rd sing. past indic., so it's 'where
[one] might easily see him' -- effectively a passive, 'where
he might be easily seen'.

> En þá Kjartan bar brátt að er þeir riðu hart og er þeir
> komu suður yfir gilið þá sáu þeir fyrirsátina og kenndu
> mennina.

> And then Kjartan quickly reported (?) that they rode hard
> when they come south over the ravine, then they saw the
> ambushes (why plural?) and recognized the men.

> But then Kjartan came suddenly upon them (in) that they
> rode hard and when they came south over the gully then
> they saw the ambush and recognized the men.

> But then (it) carried Kjartan suddenly towards (them) (ie
> he approached quickly, see bera, Z.ii.1) when they rode
> hard and when they came south over the-gully then they saw
> the-ambush (fem acc sg with def art suffixed) and
> recognised the-persons (men).

I'd go with Grace's interpretation of <er>; here it seems to
be effectively 'because'.

> Þar bað Kjartan þá við taka.

> Kjartan asked them there to receive him well. (?)

> Kjartan bade them make a bold resistance there.

> Kjartan bade them make-resistance (make their stand) (cf
> þeir tóku vel við, Z12) there (he learnt this tactic from
> Búi J).

Snap! <g>

Actually, I wonder how often that tactic comes up in the
sagas; given Icelandic topography, it must have been pretty
common.

> Þá sóttu þeir Ósvífurssynir að Kjartani og Guðlaugur.
> Then they, Osvigur's sons and Gudlaugr, attacked Kjartan.
> Then they, Osvif’s sons, attacked Kjartan and Gudlaug.
> Then they Ósvífr’s-son and Guðlaugr attacked Kjartan.

Grace: <Guðlaugur> is nominative, so despite the position of
the noun, it must go with <Ósvífurssynir>, not with dative
<Kjartani>.

Brian

#12348 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2012 10:41 am
Subject: Kjalnesinga Saga 18 end
fredgrace
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We will begin the Eyrbyggja Saga next Thursday.
Grace

Jkull mlti: "a er fheyrt a eg, tlf vetra gamall, urfi a taka fang
vi ig ar sem  deyddir blmann Haralds konungs  fangbrgum num, en
 muntu ra vilja.
eir Bi gengu  austur undir fjalli til laugar. ar voru vellir fagrir.
San klddust eir til fangs og tkust allsterklega og gekk svo lengi a
hvorgi fll. Bi var mur mjg.
Jkull mlti: "reytum etta ekki meir og tak vi frndsemi minni."
"Nei," kva Bi, "falla skal annar hvor okkar."
Jkull mlti: "Eigi mun  betur."
Eftir a rust eir   anna sinn. Voru  allmiklar sviptingar. Var 
vi sjlft bi a Jkull mundi falla. Og  v var sem kippt vri bum
ftum senn undan Ba og fll hann fram og ar var vi brestur hr og
mikill.
Bi mlti: "Fellt mun n til hltar og mtti mir n eigi hlutlaust lta
vera."
 hlupu a arir menn og su ar vegsummerki a bringspelirnir voru 
sundur  Ba og hafi ori undir steinn.
Bi mlti  til Jkuls: "Ekki hefir n ori erindi itt hinga hagfellt
v a  hefir veri mannsefni enda mun n skmm saga fr mr ganga."
Eftir a var Bi borinn heim  rauum skildi og lifi rjr ntur og
andaist san.
Jkli tti verk sitt svo illt a hann rei egar  brott og til skips er
bi var suur  Eyrarbakka og fr ar utan um sumari en san hfum vr
nga sgu heyrt fr honum.
Helga orgrmsdttir bj a Esjubergi me brnum eirra Ba.  st enn
kirkja s a Esjubergi er rlygur hafi lti gera. Gaf  engi maur gaum
a henni. En me v a Bi var skrur maur en bltai aldrei  lt Helga
hsfreyja grafa hann undir kirkjuveggnum hinum syra og leggja ekki fmtt
hj honum nema vopn hans.
S hin sama jrnklukka hkk  fyrir kirkjunni  Esjubergi er rni biskup
r fyrir sta, orlksson, og Nikuls Ptursson bj a Hofi, og var 
slitin af ryi. rni biskup lt og ann sama plenarium fara suur  Sklholt
og lt ba og lma ll blin  kjlinn og er rskt letur .
Fr Ba Andrssyni er komin mikli tt.
Og lkum vr ar Kjalnesinga sgu.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12349 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2012 10:00 pm
Subject: Kjalnesinga Saga 18 end - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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Well, the saga may be ending, but the author left me some definite challenges in
this last section:

Jkull mlti: "a er fheyrt a eg, tlf vetra gamall, urfi a taka fang vi
ig ar sem  deyddir blmann Haralds konungs  fangbrgum num, en  muntu
ra vilja.
Jokull said: "That is unusual that I, 12 years old, need to wrestle with you as
you killed the black man of King Harald in your wrestling, although you will
want agreement.

eir Bi gengu  austur undir fjalli til laugar.
They, Bui (and he), then went east under the mountain to some hot springs.

ar voru vellir fagrir.
There (they) were well greeted.

San klddust eir til fangs og tkust allsterklega og gekk svo lengi a hvorgi
fll.
Then they dressed for wrestling and began very strong looking and went so long
that neither fell.

Bi var mur mjg.
Bui became very weary.

Jkull mlti: "reytum etta ekki meir og tak vi frndsemi minni."
Jokull said: "Let's not strive hard at this any longer, and you recognize my
relationship."

"Nei," kva Bi, "falla skal annar hvor okkar."
"No," said Bui, "one of us will fall."

Jkull mlti: "Eigi mun  betur."
Jokull said: "I would have the better."

Eftir a rust eir   anna sinn.
After that they came to blows another time.    (Z. ra 17 - r. , to come to
blows (sv kom, at eir rast ))

Voru  allmiklar sviptingar.
There was then very great wrestling.

Var  vi sjlft bi a Jkull mundi falla.
It may be that Jokull was on the verge of falling (literally "would fall").   
(Z. sjlfr - er (liggr) vi sjlft, at, it is on the verge

Og  v var sem kippt vri bum ftum senn undan Ba og fll hann fram og ar
var vi brestur hr og mikill.
And in that was as both feet would be pulled at the same time from under Bui,
and he fell on his face and there (it) happened with a hard and great crash.  
(Z. - fll hann ., on the face)

Bi mlti: "Fellt mun n til hltar og mtti mir n eigi hlutlaust lta
vera."
Bui said: "Fallen (?) now tolerably and your mother will not result from causing
to be." (??)    (Z. hlt- til (nkkurrar) hltar, tolerably, pretty well

 hlupu a arir menn og su ar vegsummerki a bringspelirnir voru  sundur 
Ba og hafi ori undir steinn.
Then other men came suddenly and saw there signs that the lower chest was in
pieces in Bui and had become under a stone.  (??)

Bi mlti  til Jkuls: "Ekki hefir n ori erindi itt hinga hagfellt v a
 hefir veri mannsefni enda mun n skmm saga fr mr ganga."
Bui said then to Jokul: "It has not now become your suitable errand here because
you have been the makings of a man if now will a shame story from me go."  (??)

Eftir a var Bi borinn heim  rauum skildi og lifi rjr ntur og andaist
san.
After that Bui was carried home on a red shield and lived thee nights and then
breathed his last.

Jkli tti verk sitt svo illt a hann rei egar  brott og til skips er bi
var suur  Eyrarbakka og fr ar utan um sumari en san hfum vr nga sgu
heyrt fr honum.
Jokul thought his deed so poor that he rode at once away and to (his) ship that
was ready south at Eyrarbakka (ear bank) and there went abroad during the summer
but then we have heard no news about him.

Helga orgrmsdttir bj a Esjubergi me brnum eirra Ba.
Helga, daughter of Thorgim, lived at Esjuberg with their, Bui's (and her),
children.

 st enn kirkja s a Esjubergi er rlygur hafi lti gera.
Then still stood the church at Esjuberg which Orygr had had built.

Gaf  engi maur gaum a henni.
No man paid attention to her.

En me v a Bi var skrur maur en bltai aldrei  lt Helga hsfreyja
grafa hann undir kirkjuveggnum hinum syra og leggja ekki fmtt hj honum nema
vopn hans.
And because Bui was a baptized man but never worshipped, then Helga (his) wife
had him buried under the south church walls and didn't place valuables nor his
weapon beside him.

S hin sama jrnklukka hkk  fyrir kirkjunni  Esjubergi er rni biskup r
fyrir sta, orlksson, og Nikuls Ptursson bj a Hofi, og var  slitin af
ryi.
That same iron clock hung then over the church at Esjuberg which bishop Arni had
authority over (the) church, Thorlakson, and Nikulas Peterson lived at Hofi, and
worn out from rust.

rni biskup lt og ann sama plenarium fara suur  Sklholt og lt ba og lma
ll blin  kjlinn og er rskt letur .
Bishop Arni also had that same (?) plenarium (plenarium = complete set of texts)
go south to Skalhot and caused to be built and cemented all the blood in the
keel which had Irish letters. (??)

Fr Ba Andrssyni er komin mikli tt.
From Bui, son of Andrid, is descended a great line.

Og lkum vr ar Kjalnesinga sgu.
And there we finish Kjalnesinga's saga.

#12350 From: "Alan Thompson" <alanthompson@...>
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2012 1:23 am
Subject: Kjalnesinga Saga 18 end / Alan's Translation
alysseann
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Here’s my translation

 

I must say I enjoyed this magical little tale, albeit I only joined in part-way through. Good luck to all continuing on with Eyrbyggja Saga. Perhaps, at some stage, I will find time to join in on it too.

 

Alan

 

 

Jkull mlti: "a er fheyrt a eg, tlf vetra gamall, urfi a taka fang
Jkull spoke: “That is virtually-unheard-of (lit: little-heard) that I, (only) twelve winters old, should-need to wrestle (lit: take hold)

vi ig ar sem deyddir blmann Haralds konungs fangbrgum num, en
with you where-as you killed King Haraldr’s black-man in your wrestling, but

muntu ra vilja.
still you-will want to-have-your-way.

eir Bi gengu austur undir fjalli til laugar. ar voru vellir fagrir.
They, Bi (and Jkull) walked then east beneath the-mountain to (the) hot-springs. There were fine fields (and most suitable for wrestling).

San klddust eir til fangs og tkust allsterklega og gekk svo lengi a
After-that they dressed-themselves for wrestling and took (to it) (ie wrestled, fangbrgum implicit, see takast fangbrgum, Z13) in very-strong-looking fashion and (but) (it) went thus a long-time that

hvorgi fll. Bi var mur mjg.
neither fell. Bi became very weary.

Jkull mlti: "reytum etta ekki meir og tak vi frndsemi minni."
Jkull spoke: “Let’s prosecute this no more (How about we put an end to this madness) and (you) accept my kinship.”

"Nei," kva Bi, "falla skal annar hvor okkar."
“No,” declared Bi, “one or the other of us shall fall.”

Jkull mlti: "Eigi mun betur."
Jkull spoke: “(I) will then better not (I will rather it not be me).”

Eftir a rust eir anna sinn. Voru allmiklar sviptingar.
After-that they came to grips for a second time. (The) tussles were then very-great.

Var vi sjlft bi a Jkull mundi falla. Og v var sem kippt vri bum
(It) was (had) then reached the point that Jkull would fall. And (it) was at that (moment) when (it) were pulled with both

ftum senn undan Ba og fll hann fram og ar var vi brestur hr og mikill.
legs at-the-same-time from under Bi and he fell forward (on his face) and a loud and might crash happened therewith (Im not quite clear on the intricacies of this wrestling move ie whose legs did what but whatever, it left Bi lying flat on his face).

Bi mlti: "Fellt mun n til hltar og mtti mir n eigi hlutlaust lta vera."
Bi spoke: “Now (it) will be felled to sufficiency (Methinks this is the decisive fall) and your mother could not allow to remain having-taken-no-part-in-(it) (ie she couldnt keep out of it and had to interfere).”

hlupu a arir menn og su ar vegsummerki a bringspelirnir voru
Then other persons (men) ran up and saw there (the) marks-of-glory (the tell-tale-signs of victory?) that (the) breast-rails (the lower part of the chest) were

sundur Ba og hafi ori undir steinn.
asunder in Bi and had become (positioned) under a rock.

Bi mlti til Jkuls: "Ekki hefir n ori erindi itt hinga hagfellt
Bi spoke then to Jkull: “Your business hither has not now happened-to-be suitable (Your business here has not turned out well)

v a hefir veri mannsefni enda mun n skmm saga fr mr ganga."
because you had been a promising-young-man (you had the makings of a man) and-moreover now will a short (fem nom sg of skammr) story go (be told) about me (ie to match his shortened life).”

Eftir a var Bi borinn heim rauum skildi og lifi rjr ntur og
After that Bi was carried home on a red shield and lived three nights and

andaist san.
died (breathed-his-last) after-that.

Jkli tti verk sitt svo illt a hann rei egar brott og til skips er
His deed seemed to Jkull so bad that he rode at-once away and to a ship which

bi var suur Eyrarbakka og fr ar utan um sumari en san hfum vr
was ready south in Eyrarbakki (Sand-Bank) and journeyed then abroad during the-summer and after-that we have

nga sgu heyrt fr honum.
heard no story about him.

Helga orgrmsdttir bj a Esjubergi me brnum eirra Ba.
Helga orgrmr’s-daughter lived at Esjuberg with their children, Bi’s (and her own).

st enn kirkja s a Esjubergi er rlygur hafi lti gera. Gaf engi maur gaum
Then (at that time), that church still stood at Esjuberg which rlygr had caused to construct. No men then gave (paid) attention

a henni. En me v a Bi var skrur maur en bltai aldrei lt Helga hsfreyja
to (it, the church which is a feminine noun). But with that that (ie because) Bi was a baptised man and never made-heathen-sacrifice, then wife Helga caused

grafa hann undir kirkjuveggnum hinum syra og leggja ekki fmtt
to bury him under the more-southern church-walls and to place no valuables

hj honum nema vopn hans.
beside him except-for his weapons.

S hin sama jrnklukka hkk fyrir kirkjunni Esjubergi er rni biskup
That very iron-bell hanged then (at that time) at-the-front-of the-church which bishop rni orlkr’s-son

r fyrir sta, orlksson, og Nikuls Ptursson bj a Hofi, og var
decreed for (the) place (church), and Nikuls Pturr’s-son lived at Hof, and (the bell) was then

slitin af ryi. rni biskup lt og ann sama plenarium fara suur Sklholt
broken from rust. Bishop rni caused also that very plenary-session to journey south to Sklholt

og lt ba og lma ll blin kjlinn og er rskt letur .
and caused to prepare and to glue all the-blades (neut pl of bla, pieces of the bell?) into the-keel and Irish writing is on (it).

Fr Ba Andrssyni er komin mikli tt.
From Bi Andrr’s-son is come (descended) a great family.

Og lkum vr ar Kjalnesinga sgu.
And we close there Kjalnesinga saga (the story of the people of Kjalnes).


 


#12351 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: Kjalnesinga Saga end - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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Jökull mælti: "Það er fáheyrt að eg, tólf vetra gamall, þurfi að taka
fang
við þig þar sem þú deyddir
Jokull spoke, “It is unusual that I, twelve years old, need to wrestle with
you whereas you killed

blámann Haralds konungs í fangbrögðum þínum, en þó muntu ráða vilja.
King Harald’s black man in your wrestling, but still you will want to
decide.

Þeir Búi gengu þá austur undir fjallið til laugar. Þar voru vellir fagrir.
Síðan klæddust þeir til fangs og
They Bui (and Jokull) went then east beneath the fell to a hot spring.
There were fair plains.  Afterwards they dressed themselves for wrestling
and

tókust allsterklega og gekk svo lengi að hvorgi féll. Búi varð móður
mjög.
attacked each other very powerfully and (it) went so long that neither fell.
Bui became very tired.

Jökull mælti: "Þreytum þetta ekki meir og tak við frændsemi minni."
Jokull spoke, “(Let us) not strive more and accept my kinship.”

"Nei," kvað Búi, "falla skal annar hvor okkar."
“No,” said Bui, “one or the other of us shall fall.”

Jökull mælti: "Eigi mun þá betur."
Jokull spoke, “(That) will not (be) better then.”

Eftir það réðust þeir á í annað sinn. Voru þá allmiklar sviptingar.
Var þá
við sjálft búið að Jökull mundi
After that they attacked each other another time.  Then (there) was mighty
wrestling.  Then (it) was voluntarily ready that Jokull would fall?

falla. Og í því var sem kippt væri báðum fótum senn undan Búa og féll
hann
áfram og þar varð við brestur hár og mikill.
And at that (it) was as (if) both feet were pulled out from under Bui all at
once and he fell on his face and there happened with (that) a loud and great
crash.

Búi mælti: "Fellt mun nú til hlítar og mátti móðir þín eigi hlutlaust
láta
vera."
Bui spoke, “Now (it) falls (that you?) will be satisfied and your mother be
able not be allowed to have a part in it.”

Þá hlupu að aðrir menn og sáu þar vegsummerki að bringspelirnir voru í
sundur í Búa og hafði orðið undir steinn.
Then other men ran up and saw there signs? that the lower parts of Bui’s
chest were sundered and had happened under (the) stone.

Búi mælti þá til Jökuls: "Ekki hefir nú orðið erindi þitt hingað
hagfellt
því að þú hefðir verið mannsefni
Bui spoke then to Jokul, “Your errand here has now happened suitably hither
because you have been a promising young man

enda mun nú skömm saga frá mér ganga."
and now will a shameful tale go from me.”

Eftir það var Búi borinn heim á rauðum skildi og lifði þrjár nætur og
andaðist síðan.
After it Bui was carried home on a red shield and (he) lived three nights
and died afterwards.

Jökli þótti verk sitt svo illt að hann reið þegar í brott og til skips er
búið var suður á Eyrarbakka og fór þar
This deed seemed to Jokull so bad that he rode away immediately and to (the)
ship which was ready south at Eyrarbakka and went there

utan um sumarið en síðan höfum vér önga sögu heyrt frá honum.
abroad during the summer and afterwards we have heard no tales of him.

Helga Þorgrímsdóttir bjó að Esjubergi með börnum þeirra Búa. Þá
stóð enn
kirkja sú að Esjubergi er
Helga Thorgrim’s daughter lived at Esja’s Cliff with their children, (hers
and) Bui’s.  Then that church stood still at Esja’s Cliff which

Örlygur hafði látið gera. Gaf þá engi maður gaum að henni. En með því
að Búi
var skírður maður en
Orlyg had had built.  Then no people paid attention to it.  But because Bui
was a baptized man and

blótaði aldrei þá lét Helga húsfreyja grafa hann undir kirkjuveggnum hinum
syðra og leggja ekki fémætt
never sacrificed, then wife Helga had him buried under the church way, the
more southern (one) and placed no valuables

hjá honum nema vopn hans.
near him except for his weapons.

Sú hin sama járnklukka hékk þá fyrir kirkjunni á Esjubergi er Árni biskup
réð fyrir stað, Þorláksson, og
That same iron bell hung then before the church at Esja’s Cliff when Bishop
Arni, Thorlak’s son, ruled over the place and

Nikulás Pétursson bjó að Hofi, og var þá slitin af ryði. Árni biskup
lét og
þann sama plenarium fara suður
Nicholas Peter’s son lived at Hof and (it) was then worn from rust.  Bishop
Arni had also that same plenarium to go south

í Skálholt og lét búa og líma öll blöðin í kjölinn og er írskt letur
á.
in Skalhold and had built and limed all ?? in the kiln and on it are Irish
letters.

Frá Búa Andríðssyni er komin mikli ætt.
From Bui Andrid’s son has come a great lineage.

Og lúkum vér þar Kjalnesinga sögu.
And there we end a tale of the Kjalsness folks.
Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12352 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Sat Jun 2, 2012 9:46 am
Subject: Re: Kjalnesinga Saga 18 end - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> Jökull mælti: "Eigi mun þá betur."

> Jokull said: "I would have the better."

> Jokull spoke, “(That) will not (be) better then.”

> Jökull spoke: “(I) will then better not (I will rather it
> not be me).”

I'm pretty much with Grace on this one: it seems to me that
Jökul is saying yet again that this really isn't a good
idea.

> Og í því var sem kippt væri báðum fótum senn undan Búa og
> féll hann áfram og þar varð við brestur hár og mikill.

> And in that was as both feet would be pulled at the same
> time from under Bui, and he fell on his face and there
> (it) happened with a hard and great crash. (Z. - féll hann
> á., on the face)

> And at that (it) was as (if) both feet were pulled out
> from under Bui all at once and he fell on his face and
> there happened with (that) a loud and great crash.

> And (it) was at that (moment) when (it) were pulled with
> both legs at-the-same-time from under Búi and he fell
> forward (on his face) and a loud and might crash happened
> therewith (I´m not quite clear on the intricacies of this
> wrestling move ie whose legs did what but whatever, it
> left Búi lying flat on his face).

'And at that moment [it] was as if both legs were jerked
simultaneously from under Búi ... .'  I take this to mean
that Jökul's mother intervened when Jökul was about to fall.

> Búi mælti: "Fellt mun nú til hlítar og mátti móðir þín
> eigi hlutlaust láta vera."

> Bui said: "Fallen (?) now tolerably and your mother will
> not result from causing to be." (??) (Z. hlít- til
> (nökkurrar) hlítar, tolerably, pretty well

> Bui spoke, “Now (it) falls (that you?) will be satisfied
> and your mother be able not be allowed to have a part in
> it.”

> Búi spoke: “Now (it) will be felled to sufficiency
> (Methinks this is the decisive fall) and your mother could
> not allow to remain having-taken-no-part-in-(it) (ie she
> couldn´t keep out of it and had to interfere).”

The omitted subject of <mun> just might be <eg>: 'I'll be
tolerably well felled now, and your mother could not let
[it] be without interference'.

> Þá hlupu að aðrir menn og sáu þar vegsummerki að
> bringspelirnir voru í sundur í Búa og hafði orðið undir
> steinn.

> Then other men came suddenly and saw there signs that the
> lower chest was in pieces in Bui and had become under a
> stone. (??)

> Then other men ran up and saw there signs? that the lower
> parts of Bui’s chest were sundered and had happened under
> (the) stone.

> Then other persons (men) ran up and saw there (the)
> marks-of-glory (the tell-tale-signs of victory?) that
> (the) breast-rails (the lower part of the chest) were
> asunder in Búi and had become (positioned) under a rock.

CV s.v. <verk> (with a cross-reference from the very end of
the article on <vegr> 'a way') explains that modern
<vegsummerki> is a pronunciation spelling of an older
<verks-um-merki> (also <verks-of-merki>) 'traces of work',
especially in a bad sense, referring to marks of a
devastation, slaughter, or the like.  They 'saw there signs
of destruction, that Búi's lower chest was asunder, and a
stone had come to be under [him]'.  Note that <steinn> is
nominative, so it can't be the object of <undir>.  I think
that we can safely infer that Fríð not only pulled Búi's
legs out from under him, but also caused the rock to be
where he'd break himself up on it.

> Jökli þótti verk sitt svo illt að hann reið þegar í brott
> og til skips er búið var suður á Eyrarbakka og fór þar
> utan um sumarið en síðan höfum vér önga sögu heyrt frá
> honum.

> Jokul thought his deed so poor that he rode at once away
> and to (his) ship that was ready south at Eyrarbakka (ear
> bank) and there went abroad during the summer but then we
> have heard no news about him.

> This deed seemed to Jokull so bad that he rode away
> immediately and to (the) ship which was ready south at
> Eyrarbakka and went there abroad during the summer and
> afterwards we have heard no tales of him.

> His deed seemed to Jökull so bad that he rode at-once away
> and to a ship which was ready south in Eyrarbakki
> (Sand-Bank) and journeyed then abroad during the-summer
> and after-that we have heard no story about him.

Of course: the Glacier just melted away in the summer! <g>

> Sú hin sama járnklukka hékk þá fyrir kirkjunni á Esjubergi
> er Árni biskup réð fyrir stað, Þorláksson, og Nikulás
> Pétursson bjó að Hofi, og var þá slitin af ryði.

> That same iron clock hung then over the church at Esjuberg
> which bishop Arni had authority over (the) church,
> Thorlakson, and Nikulas Peterson lived at Hofi, and worn
> out from rust.

> That same iron bell hung then before the church at Esja’s
> Cliff when Bishop Arni, Thorlak’s son, ruled over the
> place and Nicholas Peter’s son lived at Hof and (it) was
> then worn from rust.

> That very iron-bell hanged then (at that time)
> at-the-front-of the-church which bishop Árni Þorlákr’s-son
> decreed for (the) place (church), and Nikulás Péturr’s-son
> lived at Hof, and (the bell) was then broken from rust.

I agree with Grace's reading of <er> as 'when': 'The same
iron bell hung then before the church at Esjuberg when
bishop Árni governed the place and Nikulás Pétursson lived
at Hof, and [it] was then broken from rust.'

> Árni biskup lét og þann sama plenarium fara suður í
> Skálholt og lét búa og líma öll blöðin í kjölinn og er
> írskt letur á.

> Bishop Arni also had that same (?) plenarium (plenarium =
> complete set of texts) go south to Skalhot and caused to
> be built and cemented all the blood in the keel which had
> Irish letters. (??)

> Bishop Arni had also that same plenarium to go south in
> Skalhold and had built and limed all ?? in the kiln and on
> it are Irish letters.

> Bishop Árni caused also that very plenary-session to
> journey south to Skálholt and caused to prepare and to
> glue all the-blades (neut pl of blað, pieces of the bell?)
> into the-keel and Irish writing is on (it).

Here <kjölr> is metaphorical, 'the back of a book'
(presumably the spine); <blöðin> are 'the leaves/pages' of
the book.  (CV actually uses this bit as an example.)

Apparently the good bishop pretty much had the plenarium
made: he had the individual leaves prepared, which may
include everything from preparing the parchment to doing the
writing and any illumination that might have been done, and
then glued to a spine instead of being left loose or merely
sewn together.  And the writing was in an Irish script.
This was sufficiently different from the typical Northern
hands to be very noticeable (though this tale mixes pre- and
post-Christian eras indiscriminately, quite apart from its
fantasical elements).

By the way, for all that we're told here that nothing more
was heard of Jökul, there is a whole þáttr about him,
'Jökuls þáttr Búasonar'!

Brian

#12353 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:47 am
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 3
fredgrace
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Br hann v jafnan undir ft sr. Uru  hvorirtveggju srir,
svfurssynir og n, en Kjartan var  enn ekki sr. Kjartan barist svo
snart og hraustlega a eir svfurssynir hopuu undan og sneru  ar a
sem n var.  fll n og hafi hann  barist um hr svo a ti lgu
irin.  essi svipan hj Kjartan ft af Gulaugi fyrir ofan kn og var
honum s verki rinn til bana.  skja eir svfurssynir fjrir Kjartan
og varist hann svo hraustlega a hvergi fr hann  hl fyrir eim.
 mlti Kjartan: "Bolli frndi, hv frstu heiman ef  vildir kyrr standa
hj? Og er r n a vnst a veita rum hvorum og reyna n hversu
Ftbtur dugi."
Bolli lt sem hann heyri eigi.
Og er spakur s a eir mundu eigi bera af Kjartani  eggjar hann Bolla 
alla vega, kva hann eigi mundu vilja vita  skmm eftir sr a hafa heiti
eim vgsgangi og veita n ekki "og var Kjartan oss  ungur  skiptum er
vr hfum eigi jafnstrt til gert. Og ef Kjartan skal n undan rekast 
mun r Bolli svo sem oss skammt til afarkosta."
 br Bolli Ftbt og snr n a Kjartani.
 mlti Kjartan til Bolla: "Vst tlar  n frndi ningsverk a gera en
miklu ykir mr betra a iggja banor af r frndi en veita r a."
San kastai Kjartan vopnum og vildi  eigi verja sig en  var hann ltt
sr en kaflega vgmur. Engi veitti Bolli svr mli Kjartans en  veitti
hann honum banasr. Bolli settist egar undir herar honum og andaist
Kjartan  knjm Bolla. Iraist Bolli egar verksins og lsti vgi  hendur
sr. Bolli sendi  svfurssonu til hras en hann var eftir og rarinn
hj lkunum.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12354 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2012 3:18 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 3 - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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Brá hann því jafnan undir fót sér. Urðu þá hvorirtveggju sárir,
Ósvífurssynir og Án, en Kjartan
He always turned it under his foot (to straighten it – according to M&P).
Both (sides?) became wounded, Osvif’s sons and An, but Kjartan

var þá enn ekki sár. Kjartan barðist svo snart og hraustlega að þeir
Ósvífurssynir hopuðu undan
was then still not wounded.  Kjartan fought so quickly and valiantly that
they, Osvif’s sons, retreated

og sneru þá þar að sem Án var. Þá féll Án og hafði hann þó barist um
hríð
svo að úti lágu iðrin. Í
and (they) turned then there to where An was.  Then An fell and he had still
fought on?? for a time so that (his) entrails lay outside.

þessi svipan hjó Kjartan fót af Guðlaugi fyrir ofan kné og var honum sá
áverki ærinn til bana. Þá
In this fight Kjartan hewed Gudlaug’s leg off above (the) knee and that
misdeed was sufficient for him to (cause his) death.  Then

sækja þeir Ósvífurssynir fjórir Kjartan og varðist hann svo hraustlega að
hvergi fór hann á hæl fyrir þeim.
Then those four Osvif’s sons attack Kjartan he defended himself so valiantly
that neither did he retreat before them.

Þá mælti Kjartan: "Bolli frændi, hví fórstu heiman ef þú vildir kyrr
standa
hjá? Og er þér nú það
Then Kjartan spoke, “Bolli kinsman, why did you go from home if you want to
stand quietly nearby?  And when you now

vænst að veita öðrum hvorum og reyna nú hversu Fótbítur dugi."
expect it that to grant to which (or) other (whichever side) to prove now
how Foot biter serves.”

Bolli lét sem hann heyrði eigi.
Bolli made as if he did not hear.

Og er Óspakur sá að þeir mundu eigi bera af Kjartani þá eggjar hann Bolla
á
alla vega, kvað hann
And when Ospak saw that they would not overcome Kjartan then he urges Bolli
in every way, said he

eigi mundu vilja vita þá skömm eftir sér að hafa heitið þeim vígsgangi
og
veita nú ekki "og var
would not want to know that shame after himself to have promised them
backing in a battle and now not granting (it) “and

Kjartan oss þá þungur í skiptum er vér höfðum eigi jafnstórt til gert.
Og ef
Kjartan skal nú undan
Kjartan was then for us difficult in dealing when we had not done equally
severe (things) to (him).  And if Kjartan shall now escape

rekast þá mun þér Bolli svo sem oss skammt til afarkosta."
then you, Bolli, will such as us scarcely (escape) hard terms.

Þá brá Bolli Fótbít og snýr nú að Kjartani.
Then Bolli drew Foot biter and turns now towards Kjartan.

Þá mælti Kjartan til Bolla: "Víst ætlar þú nú frændi níðingsverk að
gera en
miklu þykir mér betra
Then Kjartan spoke to Bolli, “Certainly now you anticipate, kinsman, to do
dastardly work, but (it) seems much better to me

að þiggja banorð af þér frændi en veita þér það."
to receive (my) death blow from you, kinsman, than give it to you.”

Síðan kastaði Kjartan vopnum og vildi þá eigi verja sig en þó var hann
lítt
sár en ákaflega
Afterwards Kjartan cast down (his) weapons and then did not want to defend
himself but still he was lightly wounded but very

vígmóður. Engi veitti Bolli svör máli Kjartans en þó veitti hann honum
banasár. Bolli settist
exhausted from battle.  Bolli did not give an answer to Kjartan’s speech,
but still he gave him his death wound.  Bolli set himself

þegar undir herðar honum og andaðist Kjartan í knjám Bolla. Iðraðist
Bolli
þegar verksins og
at once under his shoulders and Kjartan died on Bolli’s knees.  Bolli
immediately regretted the deed and

lýsti vígi á hendur sér. Bolli sendi þá Ósvífurssonu til héraðs en
hann var
eftir og Þórarinn hjá líkunum.
announced the slaying at his hands.  Bolli sent Osvif’s sons then to the
district but he stayed behind and Thorarin (as well) near the body.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12355 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:02 pm
Subject: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 3 - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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Br hann v jafnan undir ft sr.
He constantly thrust that under each foot.

Uru  hvorirtveggju srir, svfurssynir og n, en Kjartan var  enn ekki
sr.
Both then became wounded, the sons of Osvifr and An, but Kjartan was then still
not wounded.

Kjartan barist svo snart og hraustlega a eir svfurssynir hopuu undan og
sneru  ar a sem n var.
Kjartan fought so quickly and valiantly that they, the sons of Osvifr, retreated
and turned then to where An was.

 fll n og hafi hann  barist um hr svo a ti lgu irin.
Then An fell; and he had nevertheless fought for a while so that the (i.e.,
"his") bowels lay out

 essi svipan hj Kjartan ft af Gulaugi fyrir ofan kn og var honum s verki
rinn til bana.
In this moment, Kjartan hewed the foot off Gudlaugi below the knee and it was to
him that would sufficient to kill (him).

   skja eir svfurssynir fjrir Kjartan og varist hann svo hraustlega a
hvergi fr hann  hl fyrir eim.
Then they, the four sons of Osvifr, sought Kjartan and he defended himself so
valiantly that each of them retreated before him.   (Z. hll - hopa (fara)  hl
fyrir e-m, to retreat, recede before one)

 mlti Kjartan: "Bolli frndi, hv frstu heiman ef  vildir kyrr standa hj?
Then Kjartan said, "Kinsman Bolli, why did you leave home if you wanted to stand
silently by?

Og er r n a vnst a veita rum hvorum og reyna n hversu Ftbtur dugi."
And when you now expected that, to help from time to time and try now how
Foot-biter does good service."

Bolli lt sem hann heyri eigi.
Bolli made as if he didn't hear.

Og er spakur s a eir mundu eigi bera af Kjartani  eggjar hann Bolla  alla
vega, kva hann eigi mundu vilja vita  skmm eftir sr a hafa heiti eim
vgsgangi og veita n ekki "og var Kjartan oss  ungur  skiptum er vr hfum
eigi jafnstrt til gert.
And when Ospakr saw that they would not surpass Kjartan, then he eggs Bolli in
every way, told him would not want to know then disgrace for himself later to
have promised to back them in battle and not help now "

Og ef Kjartan skal n undan rekast  mun r Bolli svo sem oss skammt til
afarkosta."
And if Kjartan shall now escape then then you, Bolli, will (be) so as (for) us
close to hard terms."   (Z. reka 9 - rekast undan, to escape)

 br Bolli Ftbt og snr n a Kjartani.
Then Bolli drew Foot-biter and turns now to Kjartan.

 mlti Kjartan til Bolla: "Vst tlar  n frndi ningsverk a gera en
miklu ykir mr betra a iggja banor af r frndi en veita r a."
Then Kjartan said to Bolli: "Certainly you now intend, kinsman, a dastardly deed
to do but it seems much better to me to receive death at your hands, kinsman,
than give you that."

San kastai Kjartan vopnum og vildi  eigi verja sig en  var hann ltt sr
en kaflega vgmur.
Then Kjartan threw (down his) weapons and wanted then to not defend himself
although he was little wounded and a vehement warrior.

Engi veitti Bolli svr mli Kjartans en  veitti hann honum banasr.
Bolli gave no answer to Kjartan's speaking but though he gave him a mortal
wound.

Bolli settist egar undir herar honum og andaist Kjartan  knjm Bolla.
Bolli seated himself at once under his shoulders and Kjartan breathed his last
on Bolli's knees.

Iraist Bolli egar verksins og lsti vgi  hendur sr.
Bolli repented at once of the deed and declared himself the cause of Kjartan's
death.    (Z. lsa 3 - lsa vgi  hendr sr, to declare oneself to be the cause
of a death)

Bolli sendi  svfurssonu til hras en hann var eftir og rarinn hj
lkunum.
Bolli sent the sons of Osvifr to the district and he remained also (with)
Thorarin likely beside.      (Z. vera 10 - v. eptir, to be left, remain)

#12356 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2012 10:11 am
Subject: Alan + Laxdaela Saga
fredgrace
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Alan emailed me that something has come up so that he won't be able to
continue with Laxdaela Saga until August.  He has made such  valuable
contributions to our translations that I would like to suspend the Laxdaela
Saga until he can come back.

We will be starting the Eyrbyggja Saga on Thursday.  Are there shorter
things that folks would like to translate on Mondays for the next two
months?
Grace

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12357 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2012 11:01 am
Subject: Re: Alan + Laxdaela Saga
bmscotttg
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At 6:11:44 AM on Tuesday, June 5, 2012, Fred & Grace Hatton
wrote:

> Are there shorter things that folks would like to
> translate on Mondays for the next two months?

Heimskringla.no has 'Jkuls ttr Basonar', which is short
-- just three chapters -- and is a natural to go with
'Kjalnesinga saga'.

<http://www.heimskringla.no/wiki/J%C3%B6kuls_%C3%BE%C3%A1ttr_B%C3%BAasonar>

One possibility after that is the rest of 'Tattnrdla
saga': Jackson finished it a while back.  We (and he) had
left off at the end of Ch. 36.  There's an interlude at that
point.  As Jackson puts it, '[t]here is a sizable lacuna
between Chapters 36 and 42 in our manuscript'.  He
summarizes what 'can be guessed at from the contents of the
fragmentary Veirsdrpa ("Song of Praise for Veir")' and
picks up with the prose story at Ch. 42.  The final chapter
is Ch. 53.

Brian

#12358 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2012 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Alan + Laxdaela Saga
rob13567
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"Jkuls ttr Basonar" sounds reasonable to me as a next step.

Rob

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...> wrote:
>
> At 6:11:44 AM on Tuesday, June 5, 2012, Fred & Grace Hatton
> wrote:
>
> > Are there shorter things that folks would like to
> > translate on Mondays for the next two months?
>
> Heimskringla.no has 'Jkuls ttr Basonar', which is short
> -- just three chapters -- and is a natural to go with
> 'Kjalnesinga saga'.
>
> <http://www.heimskringla.no/wiki/J%C3%B6kuls_%C3%BE%C3%A1ttr_B%C3%BAasonar>
>
> One possibility after that is the rest of 'Tattnrdla
> saga': Jackson finished it a while back.  We (and he) had
> left off at the end of Ch. 36.  There's an interlude at that
> point.  As Jackson puts it, '[t]here is a sizable lacuna
> between Chapters 36 and 42 in our manuscript'.  He
> summarizes what 'can be guessed at from the contents of the
> fragmentary Veirsdrpa ("Song of Praise for Veir")' and
> picks up with the prose story at Ch. 42.  The final chapter
> is Ch. 53.
>
> Brian
>

#12359 From: Michael Murphy <omurc2002@...>
Date: Fri Jun 1, 2012 9:14 am
Subject: Norse course for Beginners
omurc2002
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Hi, Fellow-Norsophiles,

I'm glad to be a member of this group and looking forward to corresponding
with you -- and learning from you.

all the best,

Mike 

#12360 From: "maringa713" <maringa713@...>
Date: Sun Jun 3, 2012 9:15 am
Subject: Odd question
maringa713
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I haven't been active on here in a while, but I just thought of something that I
hope I could get answered by those with better ON knowledge than me.

I know that Valkyrie means approximately "chooser of the slain". I also know
that it has a history in the language, and what I'm asking for a translation of
would not...

But if there was a similar word for either "leader of the slain" or "protector
of the slain", what would it (most likely) be? I know it's a difficult question,
but I'd just like to have some idea.

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who answers.

#12361 From: Michael Murphy <omurc2002@...>
Date: Tue Jun 5, 2012 7:18 pm
Subject: Re: Alan + Laxdaela Saga
omurc2002
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Dear Fred and Grace,

In reply to your enquiry re "shorter things," in my own particular case, I would certainly benefit -- in fact, the shorter the better. Although I am 100% interested in Old Icelandic, I find the level of this group way beyond mine. In fact, I thought I was logging in to a "beginners' " group. I thoroughly enjoy it, and I envy you your proficiency in translation,
a standard I eventually hope to reach.

Do you know of a beginners' group, I mean one where there is e-mail interaction, support and exercises, with feedback? I'm aware there are probably hundreds of courses in OI on the web, but I would prefer to be part of a group. Ideally, if you know of any such site in Iceland, could you please send me details.

By the way, I'm not actually a beginner, probably around lower intermediate level.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Michael   

--- On Tue, 5/6/12, Fred & Grace Hatton <hatton@...> wrote:

From: Fred & Grace Hatton <hatton@...>
Subject: [norse_course] Alan + Laxdaela Saga
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 5 June, 2012, 14:11

 

Alan emailed me that something has come up so that he won't be able to
continue with Laxdaela Saga until August. He has made such valuable
contributions to our translations that I would like to suspend the Laxdaela
Saga until he can come back.

We will be starting the Eyrbyggja Saga on Thursday. Are there shorter
things that folks would like to translate on Mondays for the next two
months?
Grace

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.


#12362 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2012 12:35 pm
Subject: short translations
fredgrace
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Jkuls ttr Basonar  sounds perfect and I'm fine with going back to Star
Wars afterwards.
Grace

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12363 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2012 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: Odd question
bmscotttg
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At 5:15:14 AM on Sunday, June 3, 2012, maringa713 wrote:

> I haven't been active on here in a while, but I just
> thought of something that I hope I could get answered by
> those with better ON knowledge than me.

> I know that Valkyrie means approximately "chooser of the
> slain". I also know that it has a history in the language,
> and what I'm asking for a translation of would not...

> But if there was a similar word for either "leader of the
> slain" or "protector of the slain", what would it (most
> likely) be? I know it's a difficult question, but I'd just
> like to have some idea.

One possibility is <valvrr> 'slain-ward, guardian of the
slain'; the first element is as in <valkyrja>, and the
second is <vrr> 'guardian, watch and ward'.  However, this
seems to be 'guardian' in the same sense that Heimdall is
guardian/sentinel of the gods, which is perhaps not quite
the sense that you have in mind.

My safest suggestion, I think, is a hypothetical <valverir>
'defender, protector of the slain'; the first element is as
in <valkyrja>, and the second is an agent noun formed from
the verb <verja> 'to defend'.  So far as I know, <verir>
'defender, protector' isn't attested, either free-standing
or in a compound, but agent nouns in <-ir> are not uncommon
with Class I weak verbs (also known as jan-verbs), and
<verja> does belong to that class.

There are other ways of forming agent nouns.  For example,
some are formed from present participles, like <gefandi>
'giver', from <gefa> 'to give'.  Old Norse actually has an
agent noun <verjandi> from <verja>, but it means (at least
primarily) 'defendant in a suit', so it hardly seems
appropriate.  Another is by means of the suffix <-ari>, but
it's of relatively late appearance, apparently borrowed from
Latin <-arius>.

Another would probably yield <vari> when applied to the verb
<verja>, but I hesitate to suggest it, because Old Norse
already has a noun <vari> 'wariness, precaution' and another
<vari> 'the watery substance of the blood'.  On the other
hand, ghere *is* a poetic term <vri> that probably means
something like 'defender', though this isn't entirely
certain; a poetic term would probably be appropriate for
what you want, so <valvri> is a possibility.

Finally, if you want to engage in *really* speculative
construction, you could imagine that there might have been a
word <valinn> 'leader of the slain, foremost among the
slain'.  The construction is exemplified by poetic <jann>
'prince, ruler', literally something like 'leader of or
foremost among a <j> people', by <drttinn> 'lord,
master', literally something like 'leader of a <drtt>
household', and by in's byname <Herjann> 'lord/leader of
<herir> armies/hosts'.  The variation between <-ann> and
<-inn> is governed by the stem class of the noun from which
the word is derived; <valr> 'the slain' is an i-stem, so it
would take <-inn>.  So far as I know, there isn't a trace of
this word, and it's identical in form to the masculine
nominative singular of the past participle <velja> 'to
choose'.  On the other hand, Old Norse, like other
languages, has plenty of homonyms, and the fact that it
could be understood both as 'leader of the slain' and
'chosen' has a certain appeal.

Brian

#12364 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2012 7:31 am
Subject: Re: Laxdaela Saga 49 part 3 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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> Br hann v jafnan undir ft sr.

> He constantly thrust that under each foot.

> He always turned it under his foot (to straighten it 
> according to M&P).

Remember, this wasn't his good sword.  From what I've read,
this description is quite believable.

>  fll n og hafi hann  barist um hr svo a ti lgu
> irin.

> Then An fell; and he had nevertheless fought for a while
> so that the (i.e., "his") bowels lay out

> Then An fell and he had still fought on?? for a time so
> that (his) entrails lay outside.

Here <svo a> should be understood as 'in such a condition
that', not 'in order that' or 'so that as a result'.  It's
saying that even though his entrails were exposed, he kept
on fighting for a while.

>  essi svipan hj Kjartan ft af Gulaugi fyrir ofan kn
> og var honum s verki rinn til bana.

> In this moment, Kjartan hewed the foot off Gudlaugi below
> the knee and it was to him that would sufficient to kill
> (him).

> In this fight Kjartan hewed Gudlaugs leg off above (the)
> knee and that misdeed was sufficient for him to (cause
> his) death.

This is <svipan> Z3: 'At this moment', i.e., the moment when
n fell.

>  skja eir svfurssynir fjrir Kjartan og varist hann
> svo hraustlega a hvergi fr hann  hl fyrir eim.

> Then they, the four sons of Osvifr, sought Kjartan and he
> defended himself so valiantly that each of them retreated
> before him. (Z. hll - hopa (fara)  hl fyrir e-m, to
> retreat, recede before one)

> Then those four Osvifs sons attack Kjartan he defended
> himself so valiantly that neither did he retreat before
> them.

This is <hvergi> adv. Z2 'by no means, not at all': 'so
valiantly that he did not give an inch before them'.

> Og er r n a vnst a veita rum hvorum og reyna n
> hversu Ftbtur dugi."

> And when you now expected that, to help from time to time
> and try now how Foot-biter does good service."

> And when you now expect it that to grant to which (or)
> other (whichever side) to prove now how Foot biter
> serves.

Here <er> is the verb 'is', and <vnst> is the superlative
of the adjective <vnn> 'fine, promising'.  For <rum
hvorum> see <annarr hvrr>; it's the dative plural of ON
nom. plur. <arir hvrir> 'one or the other (of two)'.  'And
it is now most promising to you [i.e., best for you] to help
one [side] or the other and test now how Legbiter serves.'

> Og er spakur s a eir mundu eigi bera af Kjartani 
> eggjar hann Bolla  alla vega, kva hann eigi mundu vilja
> vita  skmm eftir sr a hafa heiti eim vgsgangi og
> veita n ekki "og var Kjartan oss  ungur  skiptum er
> vr hfum eigi jafnstrt til gert.

> And when Ospakr saw that they would not surpass Kjartan,
> then he eggs Bolli in every way, told him would not want
> to know then disgrace for himself later to have promised
> to back them in battle and not help now "

> And when Ospak saw that they would not overcome Kjartan
> then he urges Bolli in every way, said he would not want
> to know that shame after himself to have promised them
> backing in a battle and now not granting (it) and Kjartan
> was then for us difficult in dealing when we had not done
> equally severe (things) to (him).

Rob: <> in < skmm> is the acc. sing. of the
demonstrative pronoun <s> 'that', as Grace has it.  But I
prefer your reading 'to help' for <veita>.

> Og ef Kjartan skal n undan rekast  mun r Bolli svo
> sem oss skammt til afarkosta."

> And if Kjartan shall now escape then then you, Bolli, will
> (be) so as (for) us close to hard terms." (Z. reka 9 -
> rekast undan, to escape)

> And if Kjartan shall now escape then you, Bolli, will such
> as us scarcely (escape) hard terms.

If I'm not mistaken, there's an understood <vera> after
<Bolli>: 'then to you, Bolli, as to us, will very soon be
hard terms'.  (<Skammt> appears to refer to time here.)

>  mlti Kjartan til Bolla: "Vst tlar  n frndi
> ningsverk a gera ...

> Then Kjartan said to Bolli: "Certainly you now intend,
> kinsman, a dastardly deed to do ...

> Then Kjartan spoke to Bolli, Certainly now you
> anticipate, kinsman, to do dastardly work, ...

I'd go with 'intend'.

> San kastai Kjartan vopnum og vildi  eigi verja sig en
>  var hann ltt sr en kaflega vgmur.

> Then Kjartan threw (down his) weapons and wanted then to
> not defend himself although he was little wounded and a
> vehement warrior.

> Afterwards Kjartan cast down (his) weapons and then did
> not want to defend himself but still he was lightly
> wounded but very exhausted from battle.

Rob: <vgmr> 'weary in battle', literally 'battle-weary'.

Brian

#12365 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2012 9:48 am
Subject: Eyrbyggja Saga 1 part 1
fredgrace
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1. kafli
Ketill flatnefur ht einn gtur hersir  Noregi. Hann var sonur Bjarnar
bunu Grmssonar hersis r Sogni. Ketill var kvongaur. Hann tti Yngveldi,
dttur Ketils veurs hersis af Raumarki. Bjrn og Helgi htu synir eirra
en dtur eirra voru r Auur hin djpga, runn hyrna og Jrunn
mannvitsbrekka.
Bjrn sonur Ketils var fstraur austur  Jamtalandi me jarli eim er
Kjallakur ht, vitur maur og gtur. Jarlinn tti son er Bjrn ht en
Gjaflaug ht dttir hans.
etta var  ann tma er Haraldur konungur hinn hrfagri gekk til rkis 
Noregi. Fyrir eim frii flu margir gfgir menn ul sn af Noregi, sumir
austur um Kjlu, sumir um haf vestur. eir voru sumir er hldu sig  vetrum
 Suureyjum ea Orkneyjum en um sumrum herjuu eir  Noreg og geru mikinn
skaa  rki Haralds konungs. Bndur kru etta fyrir konungi og bu hann
frelsa sig af essum frii.
 geri Haraldur konungur a r a hann lt ba her vestur um haf og kva
Ketil flatnef skyldu hfingja vera yfir eim her. Ketill taldist undan en
konungur kva hann fara skyldu. Og er Ketill s a konungur vill ra rst
hann til ferarinnar og hafi me sr konu sna og brn, au sem ar voru.
En er Ketill kom vestur um haf tti hann ar nokkurar orustur og hafi
jafnan sigur. Hann lagi undir sig Suureyjar og gerist hfingi yfir.
Sttist hann  vi hina strstu hfingja fyrir vestan haf og batt vi 
tengdir en sendi austur aftur herinn.
Og er eir komu  fund Haralds konungs sgu eir a Ketill flatnefur var
hfingi  Suureyjum en eigi sgust eir vita a hann drgi Haraldi
konungi rki fyrir vestan haf. En er konungur spyr etta  tekur hann undir
sig eignir r er Ketill tti  Noregi.
Ketill flatnefur gifti Aui dttur sna lafi hvta er  var mestur
herkonungur fyrir vestan haf. Hann var sonur Ingjalds Helgasonar en mir
Ingjalds var ra, dttir Sigurar orms  auga, Ragnarssonar lobrkar.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12366 From: "Fred & Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2012 3:09 pm
Subject: Eyrbyggja Saga 1 part 1 - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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1. kafli
Ketill flatnefur hét einn ágætur hersir í Noregi. Hann var sonur Bjarnar
bunu Grímssonar hersis
A famous lord in Norway was named Ketill flat-nose.  He was a son of Bjorn
bunu, son of Grim, a lord of Sogn.

úr Sogni. Ketill var kvongaður. Hann átti Yngveldi, dóttur Ketils veðurs
hersis af Raumaríki.
Ketill was married.  He married Yngveld, daughter of Ketil wether, lord of
Romerike.

Björn og Helgi hétu synir þeirra en dætur þeirra voru þær Auður hin
djúpúðga, Þórunn hyrna og Jórunn mannvitsbrekka.
Their sons were named Bjorn and Helgi and their daughters were those, Aud
the deepminded, Thorunn axe point and Jorunn wisdom-slope??

Björn sonur Ketils var fóstraður austur á Jamtalandi með jarli þeim er
Kjallakur hét, vitur maður
Bjorn, Ketil’s son, was fostered east to Jamtaland with that earl who is
named Kjallak, a wise man

og ágætur. Jarlinn átti son er Björn hét en Gjaflaug hét dóttir hans.
and famous.  The earl had a son who was named Bjorn and his daughter was
named Gjaflaug.

Þetta var í þann tíma er Haraldur konungur hinn hárfagri gekk til ríkis í
Noregi. Fyrir þeim ófriði
This was in that time when King Harald the fair-haired ascended to power in
Norway.  Before those hostilities

flýðu margir göfgir menn óðul sín af Noregi, sumir austur um Kjölu, sumir
um
haf vestur. Þeir
many honourable men fled his rashness?? (wild guess, couldn’t find it
anywhere) from Norway, some east over Kjolens, some west over the sea.

voru sumir er héldu sig á vetrum í Suðureyjum eða Orkneyjum en um sumrum
herjuðu þeir í
Some, they were, who held themselves in winter in the Hebrides or Orkneys
but during the summer they harried in

Noreg og gerðu mikinn skaða í ríki Haralds konungs. Bændur kærðu þetta
fyrir
konungi og báðu
Norway and did much harm in King Harald’s kingdom.  Farmers brought this
before (the) king and bade

hann frelsa sig af þessum ófriði.
him free them from these hostilities.

Þá gerði Haraldur konungur það ráð að hann lét búa her vestur um haf
og kvað
Ketil flatnef
Then King Harald made that plan that he had troops made ready (to go)
overseas and told Ketill flat-nose

skyldu höfðingja vera yfir þeim her. Ketill taldist undan en konungur kvað
hann fara skyldu. Og
(he) should be chieftain over those troops.  Ketill refused, but (the) king
said he should go.  And

er Ketill sá að konungur vill ráða réðst hann til ferðarinnar og hafði
með
sér konu sína og börn, þau sem þar voru.
when Ketill saw that (the) king would insist, he made himself ready for the
journey and had with him his wife and children, those who were there.

En er Ketill kom vestur um haf átti hann þar nokkurar orustur og hafði
jafnan sigur. Hann lagði
And when Ketill came west over the sea he had some battles there and had
always (been) victor.  He conquered

undir sig Suðureyjar og gerðist höfðingi yfir. Sættist hann þá við hina
stærstu höfðingja fyrir
the Hebrides and became chieftain over (them).  He set himself (up) then as
the strongest chieftain over

vestan haf og batt við þá tengdir en sendi austur aftur herinn.
the western sea and made alliances with (others?) then by affinity, but sent
the troops back east.

Og er þeir komu á fund Haralds konungs sögðu þeir að Ketill flatnefur var
höfðingi í
And when they came to a meeting with King Harald they said that Ketill
flat-nose was chieftain in

Suðureyjum en eigi sögðust þeir vita að hann drægi Haraldi konungi ríki
fyrir vestan haf. En er
the Hebrides, but they did not say they knew that he had appropriated to
himself King Harald’s kingdom over the western sea.  And when

konungur spyr þetta þá tekur hann undir sig eignir þær er Ketill átti í
Noregi.
(the) king learns this then he seizes those possessions which Ketill had in
Norway.

Ketill flatnefur gifti Auði dóttur sína Ólafi hvíta er þá var mestur
herkonungur fyrir vestan haf.
Ketill flat-nose married his daughter, Aud, to Olaf the white who then was
the greatest warrior-king of the western sea.

Hann var sonur Ingjalds Helgasonar en móðir Ingjalds var Þóra, dóttir
Sigurðar orms í auga, Ragnarssonar loðbrókar.
He was a son of Ingjald, Helgi’s son, and Ingjald’s mother was Thora,
daughter of Sigurd snake in eye, son of Ragnar shaggy britches.

Fred & Grace Hatton
Hawley, Pa.

#12367 From: "rob13567" <nielsenjava@...>
Date: Thu Jun 7, 2012 11:09 pm
Subject: Eyrbyggja Saga 1 Part 1 - Rob's Translation
rob13567
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1. kafli
Ketill flatnefur ht einn gtur hersir  Noregi.
Ketill "flatnose" was the name of a famous local chieftain in Norway.

Hann var sonur Bjarnar bunu Grmssonar hersis r Sogni.
He was a son of Bjarnar bunu, son of Grim's, a local chieftain from Sogni.

Ketill var kvongaur.
Ketill was married.

Hann tti Yngveldi, dttur Ketils veurs hersis af Raumarki.
He married Yngveld, daughter of Ketil wind, a chieftain from Raumarik.

Bjrn og Helgi htu synir eirra en dtur eirra voru r Auur hin djpga,
runn hyrna og Jrunn mannvitsbrekka.
Bjorn and Helgi were the names of their sons, and their daughters were Audr the
deep-minded, Thorun the horned, and Jorunn the understanding-slope (?).

Bjrn sonur Ketils var fstraur austur  Jamtalandi me jarli eim er Kjallakur
ht, vitur maur og gtur.
Ketil's son Bjorn was fostered east to Jamtalandi with the Earl who was named
Kjallakr, a wise and famous man.

Jarlinn tti son er Bjrn ht en Gjaflaug ht dttir hans.
The earl had a son who was named Bjorn and Gjaflaug was the name of his
daughter.

etta var  ann tma er Haraldur konungur hinn hrfagri gekk til rkis 
Noregi.
This was in the time when King Harald the fair-haired came to power in Norway.

Fyrir eim frii flu margir gfgir menn ul sn af Noregi, sumir austur um
Kjlu, sumir um haf vestur.
Before the war, many noble men fled their estates from Norway, some east around
Kjolu, some across the west sea.

eir voru sumir er hldu sig  vetrum  Suureyjum ea Orkneyjum en um sumrum
herjuu eir  Noreg og geru mikinn skaa  rki Haralds konungs.
There were some who stayed at winter in the South islands or Orkney islands and
some they harried in Norway and did great damage to the kingdom of King Hararld.

Bndur kru etta fyrir konungi og bu hann frelsa sig af essum frii.
Farmers complained about this before the king and asked him to free them from
this (destruction from) war.

 geri Haraldur konungur a r a hann lt ba her vestur um haf og kva
Ketil flatnef skyldu hfingja vera yfir eim her.
Then King Harald made that plan that he caused to make ready an army west across
the sea and said Ketil flatnose should be leader over the troops.

Ketill taldist undan en konungur kva hann fara skyldu.
Ketill declined but (the) king said he should go.

Og er Ketill s a konungur vill ra rst hann til ferarinnar og hafi me
sr konu sna og brn, au sem ar voru.
And when Ketill saw that the King will prevail, he undertook the journey and had
with him his wife and children, they as they were there.

En er Ketill kom vestur um haf tti hann ar nokkurar orustur og hafi jafnan
sigur.
When Ketill came west over the sea, he had there a battle and had  always
victory.

Hann lagi undir sig Suureyjar og gerist hfingi yfir.
He himself conquered the South Islands and became a chieftain over (them).

Sttist hann  vi hina strstu hfingja fyrir vestan haf og batt vi 
tengdir en sendi austur aftur herinn.
He then reconciled himself with the biggest leaders over the west sea and
contracted with them affinity and sent east after the army.

Og er eir komu  fund Haralds konungs sgu eir a Ketill flatnefur var
hfingi  Suureyjum en eigi sgust eir vita a hann drgi Haraldi konungi
rki fyrir vestan haf.
And when they came to meet King Harald, they said that Ketill flatnose was a
chieftain in the South Islands but they didn't declare to know that he procured
King Harald's rule over the west sea.

En er konungur spyr etta  tekur hann undir sig eignir r er Ketill tti 
Noregi.
When the king learned this, the he lays hold of  the properties Ketill had in
Norway.   (Z. taka 12 - t. e-t undir sik, to lay hold of)

Ketill flatnefur gifti Aui dttur sna lafi hvta er  var mestur herkonungur
fyrir vestan haf.
Ketill flatnose married his daughter Aud to Olaf the white who then was the
greatest warrior-king of the west sea.

Hann var sonur Ingjalds Helgasonar en mir Ingjalds var ra, dttir Sigurar
orms  auga, Ragnarssonar lobrkar.
He was a son of Ingald Helgason's, and Ingjald's mother was Thora, daughter of
Sigurdr worms in eyes, Ragnarson's shaggy-breeks.

#12368 From: Paul Hansen <paalhanssen@...>
Date: Wed Jun 6, 2012 7:03 pm
Subject: RE: Odd question
paalhanssen@...
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"val" in "valkyrja" doesn't mean "slain", but "chooser".
So "valvrr" means "chooser of the guardians" or "guardian of the choosers".
 

To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
From: bm.brian@...
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:07:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Odd question

 
At 5:15:14 AM on Sunday, June 3, 2012, maringa713 wrote:

> I haven't been active on here in a while, but I just
> thought of something that I hope I could get answered by
> those with better ON knowledge than me.

> I know that Valkyrie means approximately "chooser of the
> slain". I also know that it has a history in the language,
> and what I'm asking for a translation of would not...

> But if there was a similar word for either "leader of the
> slain" or "protector of the slain", what would it (most
> likely) be? I know it's a difficult question, but I'd just
> like to have some idea.

One possibility is <valvrr> 'slain-ward, guardian of the
slain'; the first element is as in <valkyrja>, and the
second is <vrr> 'guardian, watch and ward'. However, this
seems to be 'guardian' in the same sense that Heimdall is
guardian/sentinel of the gods, which is perhaps not quite
the sense that you have in mind.

My safest suggestion, I think, is a hypothetical <valverir>
'defender, protector of the slain'; the first element is as
in <valkyrja>, and the second is an agent noun formed from
the verb <verja> 'to defend'. So far as I know, <verir>
'defender, protector' isn't attested, either free-standing
or in a compound, but agent nouns in <-ir> are not uncommon
with Class I weak verbs (also known as jan-verbs), and
<verja> does belong to that class.

There are other ways of forming agent nouns. For example,
some are formed from present participles, like <gefandi>
'giver', from <gefa> 'to give'. Old Norse actually has an
agent noun <verjandi> from <verja>, but it means (at least
primarily) 'defendant in a suit', so it hardly seems
appropriate. Another is by means of the suffix <-ari>, but
it's of relatively late appearance, apparently borrowed from
Latin <-arius>.

Another would probably yield <vari> when applied to the verb
<verja>, but I hesitate to suggest it, because Old Norse
already has a noun <vari> 'wariness, precaution' and another
<vari> 'the watery substance of the blood'. On the other
hand, ghere *is* a poetic term <vri> that probably means
something like 'defender', though this isn't entirely
certain; a poetic term would probably be appropriate for
what you want, so <valvri> is a possibility.

Finally, if you want to engage in *really* speculative
construction, you could imagine that there might have been a
word <valinn> 'leader of the slain, foremost among the
slain'. The construction is exemplified by poetic <jann>
'prince, ruler', literally something like 'leader of or
foremost among a <j> people', by <drttinn> 'lord,
master', literally something like 'leader of a <drtt>
household', and by in's byname <Herjann> 'lord/leader of
<herir> armies/hosts'. The variation between <-ann> and
<-inn> is governed by the stem class of the noun from which
the word is derived; <valr> 'the slain' is an i-stem, so it
would take <-inn>. So far as I know, there isn't a trace of
this word, and it's identical in form to the masculine
nominative singular of the past participle <velja> 'to
choose'. On the other hand, Old Norse, like other
languages, has plenty of homonyms, and the fact that it
could be understood both as 'leader of the slain' and
'chosen' has a certain appeal.

Brian



#12369 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Fri Jun 8, 2012 8:30 pm
Subject: Re: Odd question
bmscotttg
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At 3:03:18 PM on Wednesday, June 6, 2012, Paul Hansen wrote:

> "val" in "valkyrja" doesn't mean "slain", but "chooser".

You're mistaken, I'm afraid.  The 'chooser' element in
<valkyrja> is <-kyrja>; it's derived from the verb <kjsa>
'to choose'.  The first element, <val->, is from <valr> 'the
slain' (not to be confused with the poetic term <valr>
'hawk, falcon', which belongs to a different declension).

Brian

#12370 From: "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...>
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2012 10:07 am
Subject: Re: Eyrbyggja Saga 1 Part 1 - Rob's Translation
bmscotttg
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Since I'm taking this opportunity to revise translations
that in some cases I did many months ago, I thought that I'd
post my own in full; I've also added some comments where I
thought that they might be useful or interesting.

> Ketill flatnefur ht einn gtur hersir  Noregi.

> Ketill "flatnose" was the name of a famous local chieftain
> in Norway.

> A famous lord in Norway was named Ketill flat-nose.

A certain famous/excellent local chieftain in Norway was
called Ketil flatnefr [flat-nose].

> Hann var sonur Bjarnar bunu Grmssonar hersis r Sogni.

> He was a son of Bjarnar bunu, son of Grim's, a local
> chieftain from Sogni.

> He was a son of Bjorn bunu, son of Grim, a lord of Sogn.

He was the son of Bjrn buna, son of Grm, a local chieftain
from Sogn.

The meaning of the byname isn't certain; Nynorsk <bune>,
which may be related, is 'a concave bone', and in the plural
'arms and legs'.  Faroese <buna> means 'something large and
clumsy/unwieldy'.  Apparently there was something odd about
his leg or foot, but it's not clear just what.

> Ketill var kvongaur.
> Ketill was married.
> Ketill was married.

Ketil was married.

> Hann tti Yngveldi, dttur Ketils veurs hersis af
> Raumarki.

> He married Yngveld, daughter of Ketil wind, a chieftain
> from Raumarik.

> He married Yngveld, daughter of Ketil wether, lord of
> Romerike.

He had (as wife) Yngvild, daughter of Ketil ver [wether],
lord of Raumark.

> Bjrn og Helgi htu synir eirra en dtur eirra voru r
> Auur hin djpga, runn hyrna og Jrunn mannvitsbrekka.

> Bjorn and Helgi were the names of their sons, and their
> daughters were Audr the deep-minded, Thorun the horned,
> and Jorunn the understanding-slope (?).

> Their sons were named Bjorn and Helgi and their daughters
> were those, Aud the deepminded, Thorunn axe point and
> Jorunn wisdom-slope??

Their sons were called Bjrn and Helgi, and their daughters
were Au djpga, run hyrna [point of an axe-head], and
Jrun mannvitsbrekka.

The byname <djpga> also appears as <djpauga>, a fact
that complicates the interpretation.  If <djpauga> is
correct, it would be a syncopated form of <djpauigr> 'very
rich'.  It seems to be generally thought, however, that it's
parallel to <harigr> 'hard-minded' (<har> 'hardness of
heart') and <stigr> 'loving' (<st> love, affection'),
with <-> a contracted form of <-hug> '-minded'.  In this
case it would be essentially the same as <djphugar>
'sagacious, ingenious'.

The byname <mannvitsbrekka>, apparently 'wisdom-slope', is
obscure; I don't think that any convincing interpretation
has been given.

As far as that goes, it's not entirely clear what the sense
of <hyrna> was as a byname; Nynorsk <hyrne> 'horned animal'
may be relevant.  Something about her seems to have
suggested a pointed horn.

> Bjrn sonur Ketils var fstraur austur  Jamtalandi me
> jarli eim er Kjallakur ht, vitur maur og gtur.

> Ketil's son Bjorn was fostered east to Jamtalandi with the
> Earl who was named Kjallakr, a wise and famous man.

> Bjorn, Ketils son, was fostered east to Jamtaland with
> that earl who is named Kjallak, a wise man and famous.

Bjrn, Ketils son, was fostered eastward in Jmtland with
the jarl who is called Kjallak, a wise man and
famous/excellent.

> Jarlinn tti son er Bjrn ht en Gjaflaug ht dttir hans.

> The earl had a son who was named Bjorn and Gjaflaug was
> the name of his daughter.

> The earl had a son who was named Bjorn and his daughter
> was named Gjaflaug.

The jarl had a son who was called Bjrn, and his daughter
was called Gjaflaug.

> etta var  ann tma er Haraldur konungur hinn hrfagri
> gekk til rkis  Noregi.

> This was in the time when King Harald the fair-haired came
> to power in Norway.

> This was in that time when King Harald the fair-haired
> ascended to power in Norway.

This was in the time when king Harald the fair-hair(ed) came
to power in Norway.

> Fyrir eim frii flu margir gfgir menn ul sn af
> Noregi, sumir austur um Kjlu, sumir um haf vestur.

> Before the war, many noble men fled their estates from
> Norway, some east around Kjolu, some across the west sea.

> Before those hostilities many honourable men fled his
> rashness?? (wild guess, couldnt find it anywhere) from
> Norway, some east over Kjolens, some west over the sea.

On account of the hostilities many worshipful/noble men went
into exile [abandoned their ancestral lands] from Norway,
some to the east around Kilir [the Keels], some westwards
across the sea.

Kilir (acc. plur. <Kjlu>) is the mountain ridge between
Sweden and Norway; the modern Norwegian name is <Kjlen>
'the Keel'.

> eir voru sumir er hldu sig  vetrum  Suureyjum ea
> Orkneyjum en um sumrum herjuu eir  Noreg og geru
> mikinn skaa  rki Haralds konungs.

> There were some who stayed at winter in the South islands
> or Orkney islands and some they harried in Norway and did
> great damage to the kingdom of King Hararld.

> Some, they were, who held themselves in winter in the
> Hebrides or Orkneys but during the summer they harried in
> Norway and did much harm in King Haralds kingdom.

There were some who wintered in the Hebrides or in Orkney
but during the summer harried in Norway and did much damage
in king Haralds realm.

> Bndur kru etta fyrir konungi og bu hann frelsa sig
> af essum frii.

> Farmers complained about this before the king and asked
> him to free them from this (destruction from) war.

> Farmers brought this before (the) king and bade him free
> them from these hostilities.

The farmers/landowners complained of this to the king and
begged him to deliver them from these raids.

Although <essum frii> is a dative singular, 'raids' seems
to fit the circumstances especially well.

>  geri Haraldur konungur a r a hann lt ba her
> vestur um haf og kva Ketil flatnef skyldu hfingja vera
> yfir eim her.

> Then King Harald made that plan that he caused to make
> ready an army west across the sea and said Ketil flatnose
> should be leader over the troops.

> Then King Harald made that plan that he had troops made
> ready (to go) overseas and told Ketill flat-nose (he)
> should be chieftain over those troops.

Then king Harald made that plan that he had an army made
ready west over the sea and said that Ketil flatnefr should
be commander over that host.

> Ketill taldist undan en konungur kva hann fara skyldu.
> Ketill declined but (the) king said he should go.
> Ketill refused, but (the) king said he should go.

Ketil refused, but the king said that he should [i.e., had
an obligation to] go.

> Og er Ketill s a konungur vill ra rst hann til
> ferarinnar og hafi me sr konu sna og brn, au sem
> ar voru.

> And when Ketill saw that the King will prevail, he
> undertook the journey and had with him his wife and
> children, they as they were there.

> And when Ketill saw that (the) king would insist, he made
> himself ready for the journey and had with him his wife
> and children, those who were there.

And when Ketil saw that (the) king will prevail, he
undertook the journey and had with him his wife and
children, those that were there.

Recall that Bjrn was away being fostered in Jmtland.

> En er Ketill kom vestur um haf tti hann ar nokkurar
> orustur og hafi jafnan sigur.

> When Ketill came west over the sea, he had there a battle
> and had always victory.

> And when Ketill came west over the sea he had some battles
> there and had always (been) victor.

And when Ketil came west over the sea, he had there several
battles and had always victory.

> Hann lagi undir sig Suureyjar og gerist hfingi yfir.

> He himself conquered the South Islands and became a
> chieftain over (them).

> He conquered the Hebrides and became chieftain over
> (them).

He conquered the Hebrides and became chieftain over (them).

> Sttist hann  vi hina strstu hfingja fyrir vestan
> haf og batt vi  tengdir en sendi austur aftur herinn.

> He then reconciled himself with the biggest leaders over
> the west sea and contracted with them affinity and sent
> east after the army.

> He set himself (up) then as the strongest chieftain over
> the western sea and made alliances with (others?) then by
> affinity, but sent the troops back east.

He then came to terms with the greatest chieftains west of
the sea and formed alliance with them and sent the army back
east.

It's nearly a tossup between 'and' and 'but' for <en> here,
but on the whole I think that it's just narrative
continuation.  <Tengdir> usually seems to refer to
connections by marriage, but etymologically it's just
'fastenings together, bonds', so I don't know that the
marriages are required.  On the other hand, we do learn a
few sentences later that he used Au to form at least one
such connection.

> Og er eir komu  fund Haralds konungs sgu eir a
> Ketill flatnefur var hfingi  Suureyjum en eigi sgust
> eir vita a hann drgi Haraldi konungi rki fyrir vestan
> haf.

> And when they came to meet King Harald, they said that
> Ketill flatnose was a chieftain in the South Islands but
> they didn't declare to know that he procured King Harald's
> rule over the west sea.

> And when they came to a meeting with King Harald they said
> that Ketill flat-nose was chieftain in the Hebrides, but
> they did not say they knew that he had appropriated to
> himself King Haralds kingdom over the western sea.

And when they talked with king Harald, they said that Ketil
flatnefr was chieftain in the Hebrides, but they did not say
that they knew that he would get king Harald a kingdom west
of (the) sea.

See <draga> Z3; <drgi> (really <drgi>) is 3rd sing. past
subjunctive: 'would procure'.

> En er konungur spyr etta  tekur hann undir sig eignir
> r er Ketill tti  Noregi.

> When the king learned this, the he lays hold of the
> properties Ketill had in Norway. (Z. taka 12 - t. e-t
> undir sik, to lay hold of)

> And when (the) king learns this then he seizes those
> possessions which Ketill had in Norway.

And when the king hears this, he seizes the possessions that
Ketil had in Norway.

> Ketill flatnefur gifti Aui dttur sna lafi hvta er 
> var mestur herkonungur fyrir vestan haf.

> Ketill flatnose married his daughter Aud to Olaf the white
> who then was the greatest warrior-king of the west sea.

> Ketill flat-nose married his daughter, Aud, to Olaf the
> white who then was the greatest warrior-king of the
> western sea.

Ketil flatnefr gave his daughter Au in marriage to lf
hvti [white], who was then the greatest warrior-king west
of (the) sea.

> Hann var sonur Ingjalds Helgasonar en mir Ingjalds var
> ra, dttir Sigurar orms  auga, Ragnarssonar lobrkar.

> He was a son of Ingald Helgason's, and Ingjald's mother
> was Thora, daughter of Sigurdr worms in eyes, Ragnarson's
> shaggy-breeks.

> He was a son of Ingjald, Helgis son, and Ingjalds mother
> was Thora, daughter of Sigurd snake in eye, son of Ragnar
> shaggy britches.

He was (the) son of Ingjald Helgason, and Ingjalds mother
was ra, daughter of Sigur ormr  auga [snake in (the)
eye], son of Ragnar lobrk [shaggy-breeks].

Brian

#12371 From: Mike Hinshaw <gwulf13@...>
Date: Sat Jun 9, 2012 4:41 am
Subject: Re: Odd question
gwulf13
Send Email Send Email
 
So "valfodr" means "chooser of the father"?  You need to look at your wordlist again.

Mike



From: Paul Hansen <paalhanssen@...>
To: norse course <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: [norse_course] Odd question

 
"val" in "valkyrja" doesn't mean "slain", but "chooser".
So "valvörðr" means "chooser of the guardians" or "guardian of the choosers".
 

To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
From: bm.brian@...
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 09:07:29 -0400
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Odd question

 
At 5:15:14 AM on Sunday, June 3, 2012, maringa713 wrote:

> I haven't been active on here in a while, but I just
> thought of something that I hope I could get answered by
> those with better ON knowledge than me.

> I know that Valkyrie means approximately "chooser of the
> slain". I also know that it has a history in the language,
> and what I'm asking for a translation of would not...

> But if there was a similar word for either "leader of the
> slain" or "protector of the slain", what would it (most
> likely) be? I know it's a difficult question, but I'd just
> like to have some idea.

One possibility is <valvörðr> 'slain-ward, guardian of the
slain'; the first element is as in <valkyrja>, and the
second is <vörðr> 'guardian, watch and ward'. However, this
seems to be 'guardian' in the same sense that Heimdall is
guardian/sentinel of the gods, which is perhaps not quite
the sense that you have in mind.

My safest suggestion, I think, is a hypothetical <valverir>
'defender, protector of the slain'; the first element is as
in <valkyrja>, and the second is an agent noun formed from
the verb <verja> 'to defend'. So far as I know, <verir>
'defender, protector' isn't attested, either free-standing
or in a compound, but agent nouns in <-ir> are not uncommon
with Class I weak verbs (also known as jan-verbs), and
<verja> does belong to that class.

There are other ways of forming agent nouns. For example,
some are formed from present participles, like <gefandi>
'giver', from <gefa> 'to give'. Old Norse actually has an
agent noun <verjandi> from <verja>, but it means (at least
primarily) 'defendant in a suit', so it hardly seems
appropriate. Another is by means of the suffix <-ari>, but
it's of relatively late appearance, apparently borrowed from
Latin <-arius>.

Another would probably yield <vari> when applied to the verb
<verja>, but I hesitate to suggest it, because Old Norse
already has a noun <vari> 'wariness, precaution' and another
<vari> 'the watery substance of the blood'. On the other
hand, ghere *is* a poetic term <vári> that probably means
something like 'defender', though this isn't entirely
certain; a poetic term would probably be appropriate for
what you want, so <valvári> is a possibility.

Finally, if you want to engage in *really* speculative
construction, you could imagine that there might have been a
word <valinn> 'leader of the slain, foremost among the
slain'. The construction is exemplified by poetic <þjóðann>
'prince, ruler', literally something like 'leader of or
foremost among a <þjóð> people', by <dróttinn> 'lord,
master', literally something like 'leader of a <drótt>
household', and by Óðin's byname <Herjann> 'lord/leader of
<herir> armies/hosts'. The variation between <-ann> and
<-inn> is governed by the stem class of the noun from which
the word is derived; <valr> 'the slain' is an i-stem, so it
would take <-inn>. So far as I know, there isn't a trace of
this word, and it's identical in form to the masculine
nominative singular of the past participle <velja> 'to
choose'. On the other hand, Old Norse, like other
languages, has plenty of homonyms, and the fact that it
could be understood both as 'leader of the slain' and
'chosen' has a certain appeal.

Brian





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