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#8053 From: "Tim Stridmann" <stridmann@...>
Date: Mon Apr 2, 2007 8:24 pm
Subject: Old Norse for 40 seconds
Stridmann
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Dear Sirs and Ladies!
Let me introduce the second lesson of my course:
http://norse.ulver.com/onorse/les40/lesson2e.html
All suggestions are welcome!
Tim Stridmann

#8054 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 2:52 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
llama_nom
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--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Stridmann" <stridmann@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Sirs and Ladies!
> Let me introduce the second lesson of my course:
> http://norse.ulver.com/onorse/les40/lesson2e.html
> All suggestions are welcome!
> Tim Stridmann


Hi Tim,

Great idea!  Thanks for posting the link.  I like the cartoons too,
especially Kráka's fishy ornaments.

An older form of 'éta' is 'eta'.  But I'm not sure when the vowel was
lengthened, or whether there's any anachronism in using 'éta'
alongside other old forms.

'Vér eigum þrjú börn.'  Wouldn't the dual 'vit' be used here rather
than 'vér'?

'Hrafn er heimskri mér.'  Should this be 'heimskari'?  E.g. Gísla
saga: Hon fór heim ok var þá nökkuru heimskari en áðr ef á mætti goeða
"She went home and was them rather more foolish than before, if that
was possible."

'elska at...'  Is it possible that this is a modernism?  I'm not sure
about that, but I couldn't find any Old Icelandic examples in
Cleasby/Vigfússon or Fritzner, or in the Órðabók Háskólans database.

http://www.lexis.hi.is/corpus/leit.pl?lemma=elska&ofl=&leita=1&flokkar=Fornrit&m\
1=elska+elskan+elskanna+elskna+elsknanna+elsku+elskum+elskuna+elskunnar+elskunni\
+elskunum+elskur+elskurnar+elskann&l1=Leita&m2=elska+elska%F0+elska%F0a+elska%F0\
an+elska%F0ar+elska%F0i+elska%F0ir+elska%F0ist+elska%F0ra+elska%F0rar+elska%F0ri\
+elska%F0s+elska%F0u+elska%F0ur+elskandi+elskar+elskast+elski+elski%F0+elskir+el\
skist+elsku%F0+elsku%F0u+elsku%F0u%F0+elsku%F0um+elsku%F0umst+elsku%F0ust+elskum\
+elskumst+elskazt&lmax=2

Llama Nom

#8055 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 3:40 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
llama_nom
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A couple more minor points that just occurred to me:

'hundrad' (on the English side) should be 'hundred'

As a native speaker of (British) English, I would say either "I am
eleven" or "I am eleven years old" (but probably not * "I am eleven
years", unless I really wanted to emphasise "years" for some reason,
e.g. if someone has suggested that I was eleven months, or eleven
centuries).  If I was an unusual age (such as 200!), I would probably
use the longer version, "I am 200 years old", if I wanted to avoid any
confusion on the part of the listener.

"I am oldest/youngest."  I think it would be more normal to say in
English "I am the oldest/youngest" in this context.

"I am trollish girl."  I would expect the indefinite article here: "I
am a troll-girl."

Ok feðgin mín eru trollar.  'troll' is a neuter noun, so the
nominative plural is 'troll' just like the singular.

"Eotonsdotter".  The Old English cognate 'eoten' survived in later
English with various spellings.  The most recent example in the Oxford
English dictionary is from 1611, 'ettin'.  So, as an alternative
possibility, you could have "Ettin's daughter" or "Etten's daughter"
or similar -- but I guess that's a matter of taste.  The word is
obsolete, and fell out of use before a single fixed system of spelling
was established.  It's probably best known nowadays from JRR Tolkien's
invented placename The Ettenmoors [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettenmoors ].

LN



--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Stridmann" <stridmann@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear Sirs and Ladies!
> Let me introduce the second lesson of my course:
> http://norse.ulver.com/onorse/les40/lesson2e.html
> All suggestions are welcome!
> Tim Stridmann
>

#8056 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 11:32 am
Subject: Fw: translation for April 2 - Njal end 53
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
I regret this is a trifle later than intended -  there was a difficulty with sending out mail
If this works then I can send also Graces translation next
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 29/03/2007 14:32:06
Subject: translation for April 2 - Njal end 53
 
"Allir megið þér sjá," segir Gunnar, "að þú hefir blóðgað mig og er slíkt
ósæmilega farið. Hefir þú stefnt mér fyrst en nú treður þú mig undir fótum
og ríður á mig."
 
Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið bóndi en hvergi varst þú óreiðulegri á
þinginu þá er þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þá er við finnumst næst skalt þú sjá atgeirinn."
 
Síðan skilja þeir að því.
 
Skammkell æpti upp og mælti: "Hart ríðið þér sveinar."
 
Gunnar gekk heim og gat fyrir engum manni um og ætluðu engir að þetta mundi
af mannavöldum vera. Einu hverju sinni var það að hann sagði Kolskeggi
bróður sínum.
 
Kolskeggur mælti: "Þetta skalt þú segja fleirum mönnum að eigi sé það mælt
að þú gefir dauðum sök því að þrætt mun vera í móti ef eigi vita vitni áður
hvað þér hafið saman átt."
 
Gunnar sagði nábúum sínum og var lítil orðræða á fyrst.
 
Otkell kemur austur í Dal og er þar við þeim vel tekið og sitja þar viku.
Otkell sagði Runólfi allt hversu fór með þeim Gunnari. Einn maður varð til
að spyrja að því hversu Gunnar varð við.
 
Skammkell mælti: "Það mundi mælt ef ótiginn maður væri að grátið hefði."
 
"Illa er slíkt mælt," segir Runólfur, "og munt þú það eiga til að segja næst
er þið finnist að úr sé grátraust úr skapi hans. Og væri það vel ef eigi
gyldu betri menn þinnar illsku. Líst mér nú hitt ráð þá er þér viljið heim
fara að eg fari með yður því að Gunnar mun eigi gera mér mein."
 
"Eigi vil eg það," segir Otkell, "og munum vér ríða neðarlega yfir fljótið."
 
Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar. Otkell
bað hann þá muna syni sínum ef svo bæri við það er með þeim var vel.
 
 

#8057 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 11:40 am
Subject: Fw: Re: April 3 Njal 53 end - - Grace's translation
originalpatr...
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Now everything seems to be working well - here is Grace's Translation forwarded on her behalf
I am going to work on mine
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 29/03/2007 16:46:51
Subject: Re: April 3 Njal 53 end - - Grace's translation
 
"Allir megið þér sjá," segir Gunnar, "að þú hefir blóðgað mig og er slíkt
ósæmilega farið.
"You all can see," says Gunnar, "that you have bloodied me and such is done
dishonourably.
 
Hefir þú stefnt mér fyrst en nú treður þú mig undir fótum og ríður á mig."
 
You have summoned me first but now you tread me under foot and ride at me."
 
Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið bóndi en hvergi varst þú óreiðulegri á
þinginu þá er
 
Skammkell spoke, "(It) is well with words, farmer, but how unruly were you
at the Thing then when
 
þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
 
you took for yourself self-judgment and you held the halberd."
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þá er við finnumst næst skalt þú sjá atgeirinn."
 
Gunnar spoke, "Then when we meet each other next you shall see the halberd."
 
Síðan skilja þeir að því.
 
At that they parted afterwards.
 
Skammkell æpti upp og mælti: "Hart ríðið þér sveinar."
 
Skammkell shouted out and spoke, "You rode hard, fellows."
 
Gunnar gekk heim og gat fyrir engum manni um og ætluðu engir að þetta mundi
af
 
Gunnar went home and spoke about (it) before no men and none expected that
this would be
 
mannavöldum vera. Einu hverju sinni var það að hann sagði Kolskeggi bróður
sínum.
 
from human causes.  One certain time it was that he told Kolskegg, his
brother.
 
Kolskeggur mælti: "Þetta skalt þú segja fleirum mönnum að eigi sé það mælt
að þú gefir
 
Kolskegg spoke, "You shall tell this to more people that not be it said that
you bring a charge against
 
dauðum sök því að þrætt mun vera í móti ef eigi vita vitni áður hvað þér
hafið saman átt."
 
(the) dead because (it) will be contradicted if no witnesses know beforehand
what you have had together."
 
Gunnar sagði nábúum sínum og var lítil orðræða á fyrst.
 
Gunnar told his neighbors and at first (there) was little discussion (about
it).
 
Otkell kemur austur í Dal og er þar við þeim vel tekið og sitja þar viku.
Otkell sagði
 
Otkell came east to Dale and when there with them (was) well received and
sits there a week.  Otkell told
 
Runólfi allt hversu fór með þeim Gunnari. Einn maður varð til að spyrja að
því hversu Gunnar varð við.
 
Runolf all (about) how (it) went with them (he and) Gunnar.  One man
happened to ask it
 
how Gunnar was about (the situation).
 
Skammkell mælti: "Það mundi mælt ef ótiginn maður væri að grátið hefði."
 
Skammkell spoke, "It would (be?) told if a common man were to have wept."
 
"Illa er slíkt mælt," segir Runólfur, "og munt þú það eiga til að segja næst
er þið finnist að
 
"Evil is such spoken," says Runolf, "and you will have it to tell next when
you meet each other that
 
úr sé grátraust úr skapi hans. Og væri það vel ef eigi gyldu betri menn
þinnar illsku. Líst
 
out of be tearful voice? out of his mind?? (couldn't make this bit out) And
it were well if not better men repaid your wickedness.  Seems
 
mér nú hitt ráð þá er þér viljið heim fara að eg fari með yður því að Gunnar
mun eigi gera mér mein."
 
to me now then the advice (to follow is) when you wish to go home that I go
with you because Gunnar will not do me harm."
 
"Eigi vil eg það," segir Otkell, "og munum vér ríða neðarlega yfir fljótið."
 
"I don't wish it," says Otkell, "and we will ride across the river further
down."
 
Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar. Otkell
bað hann þá
 
Runolf gave Otkell good gifts and said then (they) would not see each other
more often.
 
Otkell bade him then
 
 
 
muna syni sínum ef svo bæri við það er með þeim var vel.
 
to remember his sons if so bears out with it when with them were well??
 
Grace
 
 

#8058 From: "AThompson" <athompso@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 1:17 pm
Subject: RE: Fw: translation for April 2 - Njal end 53 / Alan's translation
alysseann
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"Allir megið þér sjá," segir Gunnar, "að þú hefir blóðgað mig og er slíkt
’You may all see,’ says Gunnar, ‘that you have bloodied me and such is

ósæmilega farið. Hefir þú stefnt mér fyrst en nú treður þú mig undir fótum
gone (behaved) dishonourably. You have summoned me first but now you trample me under feet

og ríður á mig."
and ride on me.’

Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið (pp of verða) bóndi en hvergi varst þú óreiðulegri á
Skammkel spoke: ‘(It) is well responded to, farmer, but (and) by-no-means were you more-calm at

þinginu þá er þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
(the) Thing when you accepted self-judgement and you held onto the halberd.’


Gunnar mælti: "Þá er við finnumst næst skalt þú sjá atgeirinn."
Gunnar spoke: ‘When we meet-each-other next, you shall see the halberd.’


Síðan skilja þeir að því.
After-that they part at that (point).’


Skammkell æpti (oepa) upp og mælti: "Hart ríðið (present tense) þér sveinar."
Skammkel shouted out and spoke: ’You ride hard boys!’


Gunnar gekk heim og gat fyrir engum manni (dat sg) um og ætluðu engir að þetta mundi
Gunnar walked home and mentioned (it) before no man and none thought that this (wound) would

af mannavöldum vera. Einu hverju sinni var það að hann sagði Kolskeggi
be from (due to) human-causes. That was on one occasion that he (eventually) told  Kolskegg,

bróður sínum.
his brother.


Kolskeggur mælti: "Þetta skalt þú segja fleirum mönnum að eigi sé það mælt
Kolskegg spoke: ‘You shall tell this to more people (so) that that be not spoken

þú gefir dauðum sök því að þrætt mun vera í móti ef eigi vita vitni áður
that you give (make) a charge against a dead (person) because (it) will be contradicted if none know (the) evidence beforehand

hvað þér hafið saman átt."
(concerning) what you have had (experienced) together.’ (what went on between you two)


Gunnar sagði nábúum sínum og var lítil orðræða á fyrst.
Gunnar told his neighbours and (there) was little discussion at first.


Otkell kemur austur í Dal og er þar við þeim vel tekið og sitja (3 pl pres) þar viku.
Otkel comes east into Dale and  (it) is there well received with them (they are well received) and (they) sit (stay) there a week.

Otkell sagði Runólfi allt hversu fór með þeim Gunnari. Einn maður varð til
Otkel told Runólf completely how (it) went between them, Gunnar (and himself). One person happened

að spyrja að því hversu Gunnar varð við (verða við = respond (z)).
to ask on that, how Gunnar responded.


Skammkell mælti: "Það mundi mælt ef ótiginn maður væri að grátið hefði."
Skammkel spoke: ‘That would (be) spoken if (it) were an untitled man that (he) had cried.’


"Illa er slíkt mælt," segir Runólfur, "og munt þú það eiga til að segja næst
’Such is evilly spoken,’ says Runólf, ‘and you will have (need) to say that next,

er þið finnist að úr (is this right?) sé grátraust úr skapi hans. Og væri það vel ef eigi
when you (two) meet-each-other, that a tearful voice be out of his character. And that would-be OK if

gyldu betri menn þinnar illsku.
Líst mér nú hitt ráð þá er þér viljið heim
better men did not pay for your wickedness. (It) seems to me now the (best) advice (plan), when you want

fara að eg fari með yður því að Gunnar mun eigi gera mér mein."
to go home, that I go with you because Gunnar will not do me harm.’


"Eigi vil eg það," segir Otkell, "og munum vér ríða neðarlega yfir fljótið."
’I want not that,’ says Otkel,’ and we will ride over the river further-down.’


Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar. Otkell
Runólf gave Otkel good gifts and declared they would not see-each-other more often (ie ever again). Otkel

bað hann þá muna syni sínum ef svo bæri við það er með þeim var vel.
asked him then to remember his son if (it) so happened with that which was well between them.






 

 

 


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#8059 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 5:04 pm
Subject: Njal 53 to end Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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"Allir megið þér sjá," segir Gunnar, "að þú hefir blóðgað mig og er slíkt
ósæmilega farið.
"All of you can see" says Gunnar "that you have bloodied me" (made me bloody) and it is dishonourably done.
 
Hefir þú stefnt mér fyrst en nú treður þú mig undir fótum
og ríður á mig."
You have first summoned me but now you walk upon me and ride over me"
 
Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið bóndi en hvergi varst þú óreiðulegri á
þinginu þá er þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
Skammkel said "It is well with words - Farmer -  (?well-spoken) but how (?CV - Unreliable) / angry were you at Thing when you took for yourself - self-judgement and you held onto the Halberd
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þá er við finnumst næst skalt þú sjá atgeirinn."
Gunnar spoke " Then when we next meet you shall see the Halberd"
 
Síðan skilja þeir að því.
Then they parted after that
 
Skammkell æpti upp og mælti: "Hart ríðið þér sveinar."
Skammkel shouted out and said "You ride hard lads"
 
Gunnar gekk heim og gat fyrir engum manni um og ætluðu engir að þetta mundi
af mannavöldum vera.
Gunnar went home and spoke of it (the incident) before no man, and none suspected it was from human action (an inflicted woulnd)
 
Einu hverju sinni var það að hann sagði Kolskeggi
bróður sínum.
One certain (particular) time it was that he told Kolskegg his brother
 
Kolskeggur mælti: "Þetta skalt þú segja fleirum mönnum að eigi sé það mælt
að þú gefir dauðum sök því að þrætt mun vera í móti ef eigi vita vitni áður
hvað þér hafið saman átt."
Kolskegg said "You shall tell this to many  people (so) that it be not said you bring a charge against the dead for it will be denied/rejected if no witnesses know before - what has happened between you
 
Gunnar sagði nábúum sínum og var lítil orðræða á fyrst.
Gunnar told his neighbours and there was but little discussion at first
 
Otkell kemur austur í Dal og er þar við þeim vel tekið og sitja þar viku.
Otkell comes East to Dale and they are well received (lit. it is there well received with them) and they sit (stay) there a week
 
Otkell sagði Runólfi allt hversu fór með þeim Gunnari. Einn maður varð til
að spyrja að því hversu Gunnar varð við.
Otkel told Runolf how it went  between then (and Gunnar). One man was to ask how Gunnar was about it (what had happened)
 
Skammkell mælti: "Það mundi mælt ef ótiginn maður væri að grátið hefði."
Skammkell spoke "That it would be spoken of (i.e.Worthy of comment ) if it were a man of low-rank (G - ó-tiginn) that he had wept. (man ! that guy has a mouth on him)
 
"Illa er slíkt mælt," segir Runólfur, "og munt þú það eiga til að segja næst
er þið finnist að úr sé grátraust úr skapi hans.
"That is evilly said" says Runolf "you will need to say when next you meet (each other) that to weep is out of his character.
 
Og væri það vel ef eigi
gyldu betri menn þinnar illsku.
It were well if better men did not (have to) pay for your wickedness
 
Líst mér nú hitt ráð þá er þér viljið heim
fara að eg fari með yður því að Gunnar mun eigi gera mér mein."
It seems to me best - that when you go home that I go (along) with you for Gunnar would not harm me.
 
"Eigi vil eg það," segir Otkell, "og munum vér ríða neðarlega yfir fljótið."
"I do not want that" says Otkel "and we will cross the river further down"
 
Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar.
Runolf gave Otkel good gifts and said they would not see each other more often (or ever again ?) (was this meant to indicate a "prophetic utterance")
 
Otkell
bað hann þá muna syni sínum ef svo bæri við það er með þeim var vel.
Otkel asked him then to remember his sons if  (got lost here - ?again)
if anything happened.
It reads to me - like remember the boys if anything should happen to me - I may be reading too much into it at this stage but it is as if Otkel knows that his association with Skammkell is doomed to a sad failure
Any help-critisue - Welcome
Patricia
I am not best pleased with this  one
I find that I have taken up a great dislike to Skammkel - there is a character in Dickens - Quilp - "The Old Curiosity Shop" - unpleasant - sly - sneaky. Never to do a good turn where a bad one will suffice
 
 
 

#8060 From: "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@...>
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2007 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
eysteinnb
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Stridmann" <stridmann@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sirs and Ladies!
> > Let me introduce the second lesson of my course:
> > http://norse.ulver.com/onorse/les40/lesson2e.html
> > All suggestions are welcome!
> > Tim Stridmann



> An older form of 'éta' is 'eta'. But I'm not sure when the vowel was
> lengthened, or whether there's any anachronism in using 'éta'
> alongside other old forms.

"Éta" sounds a bit anachronistic - I would use "eta" (which is still
used by a minority of Icelanders, actually). And, BTW, the sentence
"ek éta menn" is wrong - the 1 sing is "et/ét".

> 'Vér eigum þrjú börn.' Wouldn't the dual 'vit' be used here rather
> than 'vér'?

Absolutely.

> 'Hrafn er heimskri mér.' Should this be 'heimskari'?

In my opinion, yes.

> 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism? I'm not sure
> about that, but I couldn't find any Old Icelandic examples in
> Cleasby/Vigfússon or Fritzner, or in the Órðabók Háskólans database.

This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic. It was not in
general
use in my part of the country when I was a child. It is the influence
of
English on the younger modern generations, who have taken the
semantics
of the English "love" and superimposed them upon "elska" (the meaning
of
which is much narrower).

ADDITIONAL NOTES:

Trollshjón and trollsbörn both sound rather awkward. Trollhjón and
trollabörn would sound more normal.

Hjón does not mean "family".

"Mér líka úlfar" would be better than "mér líkar við úlfa". Having
said
that, though, I think this usage of "líka" to equal the English "like"
is rather recent. In OI the meaning was closer to "please". (But you
could claim that these two meanings are the same.) I have never seen
or
heard "líka" used with "til".

"Ellri Hrafns" is impossible, as far as I'm concerned. It would have
to be "ellri Hrafni", or simply "ellri en Hrafn".

"Feðgin", at least in prose, more normally means "father and
daughter",
not "parents".

"Fífla" (fem!) is non-existent. "Fífl" is a neuter, and is used of
both genders.

The plural of troll/tröll is troll/tröll. There is no such word as
"trollar".

Regards,
Eysteinn

#8061 From: "Stridmann" <stridmann@...>
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 5:49 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
Stridmann
Send Email Send Email
 
> > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.

I've found such exaples:

"...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
"...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
"Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA ÞÁTTUR)

> Hjón does not mean "family".

I know. This means "married couple, husband and wife", nut i wanted
the simple word for translation.

> "Feðgin", at least in prose, more normally means "father and
> daughter", not "parents".
> "Fífla" (fem!) is non-existent. "Fífl" is a neuter, and is used of
> both genders.

In both cases, see A Concise Dictionary of Old Icelandic, by Geir T.
Zoëga.

THANK YOU ALL A LOT!
I'll make the updates soon!

Tim

#8062 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 6:33 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@...> wrote:
>
> > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
>
> I've found such exaples:
>
> "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA ÞÁTTUR)

Hi Tim,

Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant.  The
difference is that in each of these examples, the complement/object of
the verb is a noun.  This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic; most,
though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
complement, as in these three examples.  The anachronism is the use of
'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
describe an action which the subject of the verb 'elska' "likes/loves
to do".

LN

#8063 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 11:01 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
We had a discussion here recently about the complications of saying "I
like" in Icelandic [
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/message/7913 ].

I wonder if this sentence could be amended to:

Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.

Compare Ögmundar þáttr dytts: mér þykkir gaman at hafa hálflit klæði
"I like to wear / enjoy wearing clothes of two colours."



--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@> wrote:
> >
> > > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
> >
> > I've found such exaples:
> >
> > "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> > "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> > "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA ÞÁTTUR)
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant.  The
> difference is that in each of these examples, the complement/object of
> the verb is a noun.  This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic; most,
> though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
> complement, as in these three examples.  The anachronism is the use of
> 'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
> describe an action which the subject of the verb 'elska' "likes/loves
> to do".
>
> LN
>

#8064 From: "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@...>
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
eysteinnb
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:

> Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.

Or: "um nætr".

Or: Nætrferðir eru mér til skaps (or: at skapi).
Or: Nætrgöngur falla mér vel.
Or: Gótt er um nætr at ganga.

Etc. etc.

Rgds,
E.

#8065 From: "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@...>
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2007 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
eysteinnb
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@...>
wrote:
>
> > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
>
> I've found such exaples:
>
> "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA ÞÁTTUR)

These are not examples of the same usage. I seriously
doubt anybody would have said "ég elska að ganga" in
medieval Iceland. Even today it sounds like a forced
translation from the English. "Elska" did not have the
wide range of meanings "love" has. It was not used of
casual "likes". The meaning is closer to "love dearly"
and you generally only "elska" people, loved ones and
friends, and gods, I guess. I doubt there are many
examples of people who "elska" things, and actions.
But if you can find it somewhere, by all means use it.
I would be very interested to hear if you can locate
and ON or OI example of "elska" with an infinitive. That
would certainly be one for the books.

As for "fífla" (n), yes, it exists, but is apparently
very rare in usage (and perhaps not an ideal word to
use in a primer for beginners). Actually, Zoega says
it means "wanton girl"! It does not occur in any saga,
according to the concordance, but is only found (twice)
in the compound "meðalfífla" (in Grett. and Gísl.).
Normally, a woman would just be called a "fífl", as in
Kormáks saga, Chapter 9:

"... því að þessi kona er fífl og engum duganda manni
við sæmanda ..."

I may not be a very good idea to teach absolute
beginners to use extremely rare and odd words as if
they were in general usage. But you're the boss!

Regards and good luck,
Eysteinn

#8066 From: "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
Date: Thu Apr 5, 2007 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds - líka
konrad_oddsson
Send Email Send Email
 
Heill Llama!

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> We had a discussion here recently about the complications of
saying "I like" in Icelandic [
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/message/7913 ].

I missed this. An interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':

'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
Icelandic Homily Book). I'm not sure if there are any parallel
obsolete usages of 'líka', but **mér líkar hangikjöt won't work in
Modern Icelandic. I can't explain why this is so - for some reason it
breaks with inherited usage-tradition. Interestingly, the verb
mirrors Modern English usage in the mainland Scandinavian languages
(for example, eg likar hangekjot, Modern Norwegian). It could just be
English influence, but I'm not sure. In my opinion, the contructions
'mér líkar vel/illa við hangikjöt/eitthvað/einhvern'
(something/someone) are very good, classic modern usage, whatever the
history. But if I ever run across archaic or obsolete usages
of 'líka', I'll rememeber to post them here for discussion ;)

Regards,
Konrad

> I wonder if this sentence could be amended to:
>
> Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.
>
> Compare Ögmundar þáttr dytts: mér þykkir gaman at hafa hálflit klæði
> "I like to wear / enjoy wearing clothes of two colours."
>
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > > > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
> > >
> > > I've found such exaples:
> > >
> > > "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> > > "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> > > "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA
ÞÁTTUR)
> >
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant.  The
difference is that in each of these examples, the complement/object of
the verb is a noun.  This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic; most,
though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
complement, as in these three examples.  The anachronism is the use of
'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
describe an action which the subject of the verb 'elska' "likes/loves
to do".
> >
> > LN
> >
>

#8067 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 5:31 am
Subject: Fw: April 5 Njal 54 beginning
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
Our assignment for Friday 6th April 2007 sent on Grace's behalf
Hope this is received well  (trouble sending again)
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 29/03/2007 14:34:25
Subject: April 5 Njal 54 beginning
 
54. kafli
 
Nú er þar til máls að taka að Gunnar var úti að Hlíðarenda og sér smalamann
sinn hleypa að garði. Smalamaðurinn reið heim í túnið.
 
Gunnar mælti: "Hví ríður þú svo hart?"
 
"Eg vildi vera þér trúlyndur," segir hann. "Eg sá menn ríða ofan með
Markarfljóti átta saman og voru fjórir í litklæðum."
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þar mun vera Otkell."
 
"Vildi eg því segja þér," segir smalamaðurinn, "að eg hefi oft heyrt mörg
skapraunarorð þeirra. Sagði svo Skammkell austur í Dal að þú hefðir grátið
þá er þeir riðu á þig ofan. Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra manna."
 
"Ekki skulum við vera orðsjúkir," segir Gunnar, "en það eitt skalt þú vinna
héðan í frá er þú vilt."
 
"Skal eg nokkuð segja Kolskeggi bróður þínum?" segir smalamaðurinn.
 
"Far þú og sof," segir Gunnar. "Eg mun segja Kolskeggi slíkt er mér líkar."
 
Sveinninn lagðist niður og sofnaði þegar.
 
Gunnar tók smalahestinn og lagði á söðul sinn. Hann tók skjöld sinn og gyrti
sig sverðinu Ölvisnaut, setur hjálm á höfuð sér, tekur atgeirinn og söng í
honum hátt og heyrði Rannveig móðir hans.
 
Hún gekk fram og mælti: "Reiðulegur ert þú nú son minn og ekki sá eg þig
slíkan fyrr."
 
Gunnar gengur út og stingur niður atgeirinum og verpur sér í söðulinn og
ríður braut. Rannveig gekk til stofu. Þar var háreysti mikið.
 
"Hátt kveðið þér," segir hún, "en þó lét hærra atgeirinn er Gunnar gekk út."
 
Kolskeggur heyrði og mælti: "Það mun eigi engra tíðinda vita."
 
"Það er vel," segir Hallgerður, "nú munu þeir reyna hvort hann gengur
grátandi undan þeim."
 
Kolskeggur tekur vopn sín og leitar sér að hesti og ríður eftir slíkt er
hann mátti.
 
Gunnar ríður um Akratungu þvera og svo til Geilastofna og þaðan til Rangár
og ofan til vaðs hjá Hofi. Konur voru þar á stöðli. Gunnar hljóp af hesti
sínum og batt. Þá riðu hinir að. Móhellur voru í götunum við vaðið.
 
Gunnar mælti til þeirra: "Nú er að verja sig. Er hér nú atgeirinn. Munuð þér
nú og reyna hvort eg græt nokkuð fyrir yður."
 
 

#8068 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 6:01 am
Subject: Re: Nefnifallssýki / "Nominative Sickness" with 'langa'
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
Vertu heill Konráð!

> an interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':
>
> 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
> scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
> Icelandic Homily Book).

Could this be anything to do with the fact that there is another verb
dependent on 'skyldi' in this sentence: '...skyldi hverr maðr langa ok
of þat önn ala...'?  But searching on Google, I find Modern Icelandic
examples such as 'mig langar og ætla', so maybe that's not a factor.
Or could the example in Hómilíubók have been influenced by some Latin
usage?  I don't know much about the history of it, so I don't know if
that's likely, but the religious subject matter makes me wonder.  The
Old English verb 'langian' has a nominative subject when it means "to
lengthen", but has accusative when it means "to want, to long for"
just as in Icelandic.

Þórhallur Eyþórsson has some more examples of nominative in place of
the usual accusative in Old Icelandic in: 'Dative vs. Nomination:
Changes in quirky subjects in Icelandic'.

"...the investigation showed that the substitution of nominative for
oblique cases is attested already in Old Icelandic, affecting various
kinds of quirky subjects (or subject-like NPs), including Experiencers
(at least with dreyma `dream', gruna `suspect', langa `want', ugga
`fear' and undra `wonder'). Some examples of N[ominativbe] S[ickness]
from Old Icelandic texts are given in (7):"

(7) a.

Ein kona... dreymdi þann dróm.
one woman-nom dreamt-3.sg that dream
`One woman... dreamt that dream.' (Mar.: 1029)

b.

þóttist hann ok spurt hafa, at Orkneyíngar myndi
seemed he also learned have that Orkneymen-nom would-3.pl

lítt lánga til, at hann kæmi vestr þagat.
little want to that he came westward thither

`It also seemed to him that the men of the Orkneys would not be
eager for him to come here to the west.' (Fms. VII:28)

c.

þetta undra víkingar.
this wonder-3.pl vikings-nom
`The vikings wondered at this.' (Fas. II:530)
_____________________________________________

But apparently, there is only one example of a dative being used in
Old Icelandic with such a verb that would normally have an accusative
"logical subject" ('honum skortir' in Grágás) -- although I gather
this has become a common (non-standard / frowned-upon) variant in
Modern Icelandic.  Regarding which, I found an curious comment here
about half-correct usages, with a mixture of accusative and dative,
such as * 'mig langar og honum líka' "I want and so does he" (!) [
http://www.ma.is/kenn/svp/pistlar/mars03.htm ] (líka = "also", not the
verb 'líka') -- due to people having being taught that 'mig langar' is
the correct form, but forgetting the rule.

LN


--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
wrote:
>
> Heill Llama!
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > We had a discussion here recently about the complications of
> saying "I like" in Icelandic [
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/message/7913 ].
>
> I missed this. An interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':
>
> 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
> scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
> Icelandic Homily Book). I'm not sure if there are any parallel
> obsolete usages of 'líka', but **mér líkar hangikjöt won't work in
> Modern Icelandic. I can't explain why this is so - for some reason it
> breaks with inherited usage-tradition. Interestingly, the verb
> mirrors Modern English usage in the mainland Scandinavian languages
> (for example, eg likar hangekjot, Modern Norwegian). It could just be
> English influence, but I'm not sure. In my opinion, the contructions
> 'mér líkar vel/illa við hangikjöt/eitthvað/einhvern'
> (something/someone) are very good, classic modern usage, whatever the
> history. But if I ever run across archaic or obsolete usages
> of 'líka', I'll rememeber to post them here for discussion ;)
>
> Regards,
> Konrad
>
> > I wonder if this sentence could be amended to:
> >
> > Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.
> >
> > Compare Ögmundar þáttr dytts: mér þykkir gaman at hafa hálflit klæði
> > "I like to wear / enjoy wearing clothes of two colours."
> >
> >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > > > > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
> > > >
> > > > I've found such exaples:
> > > >
> > > > "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> > > > "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> > > > "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA
> ÞÁTTUR)
> > >
> > > Hi Tim,
> > >
> > > Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant.  The
> difference is that in each of these examples, the complement/object of
> the verb is a noun.  This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic; most,
> though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
> complement, as in these three examples.  The anachronism is the use of
> 'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
> describe an action which the subject of the verb 'elska' "likes/loves
> to do".
> > >
> > > LN
> > >
> >
>

#8069 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 9:11 am
Subject: Re: Old Norse for 40 seconds
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
How about, as another alternative, 'ek hefi skemtan af náttförum'?  I
see that Arnórr Þórðarsson uses the adjective 'allnáttförull' "often
night-travelling, much given to traveling by night" in Magnúsdrápa [
http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/kennings/magnus11.html ].  I wonder if
*náttgöngull would be understood in the same way (ek em mjök
náttförul; ek em allnáttförul; ek em mjök náttgöngul)?

LN


--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Eysteinn Bjornsson"
<eysteinn@...> wrote:
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
>
> > Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.
>
> Or: "um nætr".
>
> Or: Nætrferðir eru mér til skaps (or: at skapi).
> Or: Nætrgöngur falla mér vel.
> Or: Gótt er um nætr at ganga.
>
> Etc. etc.
>
> Rgds,
> E.
>

#8070 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 9:39 am
Subject: Re: Njal 53 to end Patricia's Translation
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
> Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið bóndi en hvergi varst þú
óreiðulegri á þinginu þá er þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
> Skammkel said "It is well with words - Farmer -  (?well-spoken) but
how (?CV - Unreliable) / angry were you at Thing when you took for
yourself - self-judgement and you held onto the Halberd

'orðið' = 'orðit', supine (neuter past participle) of 'verða', rather
than 'orð' + the definite article.  Zoega 'verða við' "to respond to";
Online Icelandic Dictionary 'verða vel við e-u' "to accept something
calmly" -- which seems to be the meaning here.  MM & HP "You are
taking it calmly".  Here with an impersonal construction, lit.: "Well
is to-that responded", "that is well (i.e. calmly) responded to."
Incidentally, I'm guessing there's a bit of non-too-subtle innuendo
going on with Skammkell's constant references to Gunnarr's 'atgeirr'...

> Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar.
Runolf gave Otkel good gifts and said they would not see each other
more often (or ever again ?) (was this meant to indicate a "prophetic
utterance")

Yes & yes, 'eigi ... optarr' = "never again", and I think you could be
right about it being prophetic.  When people say things in that tone
of voice in sagas, they usually come to pass (unless there's someone
even more foresighted around to contradict or qualify them).

LN

#8071 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 9:44 am
Subject: Re: Fw: translation for April 2 - Njal end 53 / Alan's translation
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
> bað hann þá muna syni sínum ef svo bæri við það er með þeim var vel.

I'm not sure about this myself.  If 'ef svo bæri við' = "if that comes
to pass" (MM & HP "if anything happened"), then does the rest refer to
what is to be done to help his son, or is it an appeal to the
friendship that exists between Runolf and Otkell?

LN

#8072 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 9:49 am
Subject: Re: Re: Njal 53 to end Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks LN for those pointers - I had a feeling Skammkel was planning something - perhaps a sly attack - one that others would seem likely to take up - for I doubt if this Skammkel would risk much and yes the constant reference to the Halberd
There is bound to be some scurrilous activity and Skammkel will be at the bottom of it
Kveðja
Patricia 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: llama_nom
Date: 06/04/2007 10:41:54
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Njal 53 to end Patricia's Translation
 


> Skammkell mælti: "Vel er við orðið bóndi en hvergi varst þú
óreiðulegri á þinginu þá er þú tókst sjálfdæmið og þú hélst á atgeirinum."
> Skammkel said "It is well with words - Farmer - (?well-spoken) but
how (?CV - Unreliable) / angry were you at Thing when you took for
yourself - self-judgement and you held onto the Halberd

'orðið' = 'orðit', supine (neuter past participle) of 'verða', rather
than 'orð' + the definite article. Zoega 'verða við' "to respond to";
Online Icelandic Dictionary 'verða vel við e-u' "to accept something
calmly" -- which seems to be the meaning here. MM & HP "You are
taking it calmly". Here with an impersonal construction, lit.: "Well
is to-that responded", "that is well (i.e. calmly) responded to."
Incidentally, I'm guessing there's a bit of non-too-subtle innuendo
going on with Skammkell's constant references to Gunnarr's 'atgeirr'...

> Runólfur gaf Otkatli góðar gjafar og kvað þá eigi sjást mundu oftar.
Runolf gave Otkel good gifts and said they would not see each other
more often (or ever again ?) (was this meant to indicate a "prophetic
utterance")

Yes & yes, 'eigi ... optarr' = "never again", and I think you could be
right about it being prophetic. When people say things in that tone
of voice in sagas, they usually come to pass (unless there's someone
even more foresighted around to contradict or qualify them).

LN

 

#8073 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 10:03 am
Subject: Fw: April 6 Njal 54 beginning - - Grace's translation
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
This was Grace's translation she left with me to be forwarded today
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 29/03/2007 14:35:51
Subject: April 6 Njal 54 beginning - - Grace's translation
 
54. kafli
 
Nú er þar til máls að taka að Gunnar var úti að Hlíðarenda og sér smalamann
sinn hleypa
 
Now it must be told that Gunnar was outside at Hlidarend and sees his
shepherd galloping
 
að garði. Smalamaðurinn reið heim í túnið.
 
to (the) yard.  The shepherd rode home into the home field.
 
Gunnar mælti: "Hví ríður þú svo hart?"
 
Gunnar spoke, "Whey do you ride so hard?"
 
"Eg vildi vera þér trúlyndur," segir hann. "Eg sá menn ríða ofan með
Markarfljóti átta
 
"I wished to be faithful to you," says he,  "I saw men riding down along
Markar River, eight
 
saman og voru fjórir í litklæðum."
 
(al)together and four were in coloured clothing."
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þar mun vera Otkell."
 
Gunnar spoke, "There will be Otkell."
 
"Vildi eg því segja þér," segir smalamaðurinn, "að eg hefi oft heyrt mörg
skapraunarorð
 
"I wished to tell you it," says the shepherd, "that I have often heard many
temper-trying words
 
  þeirra. Sagði svo Skammkell austur í Dal að þú hefðir grátið þá er þeir
riðu á þig ofan.
 
of theirs.  Skammkell said so east in Dale, that you had wept then when they
rode you down.
 
Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra manna."
 
Seems to me to be evil speech of a difficult man."
 
"Ekki skulum við vera orðsjúkir," segir Gunnar, "en það eitt skalt þú vinna
héðan í frá er þú vilt."
 
"We shall not be touchy about (that)," says Gunnar, "but (for?) that one you
shall work henceforth where you wish."
 
"Skal eg nokkuð segja Kolskeggi bróður þínum?" segir smalamaðurinn.
 
"Shall I say anything to Kolskegg, your brother?" says the shepherd.
 
"Far þú og sof," segir Gunnar. "Eg mun segja Kolskeggi slíkt er mér líkar."
 
"You go and sleep," says Gunnar.  "I will tell Kolskegg such as I please."
 
Sveinninn lagðist niður og sofnaði þegar.
 
The swain laid himself down and slept at once.
 
Gunnar tók smalahestinn og lagði á söðul sinn. Hann tók skjöld sinn og gyrti
sig sverðinu
 
Gunnar took the shepherd's horse and placed his saddle (on it).  He took his
shield and girded himself with the sword,
 
Ölvisnaut, setur hjálm á höfuð sér, tekur atgeirinn og söng í honum hátt og
heyrði
 
?, sets a helmet on his head, takes the halberd and (it) rang loudly on him
and
 
Rannveig móðir hans.
 
Rannveig, his mother, heard.
 
Hún gekk fram og mælti: "Reiðulegur ert þú nú son minn og ekki sá eg þig
slíkan fyrr."
 
She went out and spoke, "You are angry-looking now, my son, and I saw you
not so before."
 
Gunnar gengur út og stingur niður atgeirinum og verpur sér í söðulinn og
ríður braut.
 
Gunnar goes out and thrusts down the halberd and throws himself into the
saddle and rides away.
 
  Rannveig gekk til stofu. Þar var háreysti mikið.
 
Rannveig went to (the) sitting room.  There was much clamour.
 
"Hátt kveðið þér," segir hún, "en þó lét hærra atgeirinn er Gunnar gekk út."
 
"You talk loudly," says she, "but still let the halberd sound when Gunnar
went out."
 
Kolskeggur heyrði og mælti: "Það mun eigi engra tíðinda vita."
 
Kolskeg heard and spoke, "It will not know ? tidings."
 
"Það er vel," segir Hallgerður, "nú munu þeir reyna hvort hann gengur
grátandi undan þeim."
 
"It is well," says Hallgerd, "now they will prove whether he walks away
weeping (before) them."
 
Kolskeggur tekur vopn sín og leitar sér að hesti og ríður eftir slíkt er
hann mátti.
 
Kolskegg takes his weapon and finds himself a horse and rides after such as
he might.
 
Gunnar ríður um Akratungu þvera og svo til Geilastofna og þaðan til Rangár
og ofan til
 
Gunnar rides across Tongue Field and so to Glen clearing? and thence to Rang
River and down to
 
vaðs hjá Hofi. Konur voru þar á stöðli. Gunnar hljóp af hesti sínum og batt.
Þá riðu hinir
 
a ford near Hof.  Women were there at milking pens.  Gunnar leaped from his
horse and tied (it).  Then those rode up.
 
  að. Móhellur voru í götunum við vaðið.
 
Slippery tufa (CV) was in the path to (the) ford.
 
Gunnar mælti til þeirra: "Nú er að verja sig. Er hér nú atgeirinn. Munuð þér
nú og reyna
 
Gunnar spoke to them, "Now is to defend one's self.  Here is now the
halberd.  You will now also prove
 
 
 
hvort eg græt nokkuð fyrir yður."
 
whether I weep any before you."
 
Grace
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa
 
 

#8074 From: "AThompson" <athompso@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 11:45 am
Subject: RE: Fw: April 5 Njal 54 beginning / Alan's Translation
alysseann
Send Email Send Email
 

54. kafli
Chapter 54


Nú er þar til máls að taka að Gunnar var úti að Hlíðarenda og sér smalamann
Now (one) is to take the story there (at that point), that Gunnar was outside at Hlíðarendi and sees his shepherd

sinn hleypa að garði. Smalamaðurinn reið heim í túnið.
run to (the) yard (arrive). The shepherd rode
home into the home-meadow.


Gunnar mælti: "Hví ríður þú svo hart?"
Gunnar spoke: ‘Why do you ride so hard?’


"Eg vildi vera þér trúlyndur," segir hann. "Eg sá menn ríða ofan með
’I wanted to be faithful to you,’ he says. ‘I saw men ride down along

Markarfljóti átta saman og voru fjórir í litklæðum."
Markarfljót (Forest River), eight together, and four were in coloured-clothing.’


Gunnar mælti: "Þar mun vera Otkell."
Gunnar spoke: ‘Otkel will be there (among them).’


"Vildi eg því segja þér," segir smalamaðurinn, "að eg hefi oft heyrt mörg
’I wanted to tell you that,’ says the shephed,’ that I have often heard many

skapraunarorð þeirra. Sagði svo Skammkell austur í Dal að þú hefðir grátið
temper-trying-word of theirs. Skammkel said thus, east in Dale, that you had cried

þá er þeir riðu á þig ofan. Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra (vándr) manna (gen pl)."
when they rode down on you. (It) seems to me to be (the) evil words of wicked men.’


"Ekki skulum við vera orðsjúkir," segir Gunnar, "en það eitt skalt þú vinna
’We (two) shall not be word-sick (touchy),’ says Gunnar, ‘but you shall work

héðan í frá er þú vilt."
from here forward (hereafter) that alone which you want.’

"Skal eg nokkuð segja Kolskeggi bróður þínum?" segir smalamaðurinn.
’I shall say something to Kolskegg, your brother?’ says the shepherd.


"Far þú og sof," segir Gunnar. "Eg mun segja Kolskeggi slíkt er mér líkar."
’Go (you) and sleep,’ says Gunnar. ‘I will tell Kolskegg such which pleases me.’


Sveinninn lagðist niður og sofnaði þegar.
The lad laid-himself down and fell-asleep at-once.


Gunnar tók smalahestinn og lagði á söðul sinn. Hann tók skjöld sinn og gyrti
Gunnar took the sheep-(shepherd’s) horse and placed his saddle on (it). He took his shield and girded

sig sverðinu Ölvisnaut, setur hjálm á höfuð sér, tekur atgeirinn og söng í
himself with the sword Ölvisnaut (Ölvi’s Gift), sets a helmet on his head, takes the (omnipresent) halberd and (it) ‘rang’

honum hátt og heyrði Rannveig móðir hans.
in it loudly (as was its want) and Rannveig, his mother heard.


Hún gekk fram og mælti: "Reiðulegur ert þú nú son minn og ekki sá eg þig
She walked forward and spoke: ‘You are now angry-looking, my son, and I saw not (have not seen) you

slíkan fyrr."
such before.’


Gunnar gengur út og stingur niður atgeirinum og verpur sér í söðulinn og
Gunnar walks out and thrusts down with the halberd and (thus) throws himself into the saddle and

ríður braut. Rannveig gekk til stofu. Þar var háreysti mikið.
rides away. Rannveig walks into (the) sitting-room. A great clamour was there.


"Hátt kveðið þér," segir hún, "en þó lét hærra (hár, compar) atgeirinn er Gunnar gekk út."
’Loudly you speak,’ she says, ‘but still the halberd sounded louder when Gunnar walked out.’


Kolskeggur heyrði og mælti: "Það mun eigi engra (enginn, gen pl) tíðinda vita."
Kolskegg heard and spoke: ‘That will not mean no tidings.’


"Það er vel," segir Hallgerður, "nú munu þeir reyna hvort hann gengur
’That is well,’ says Hallgerð,’now they will test whether he walks

grátandi undan þeim."
crying from them.’


Kolskeggur tekur vopn sín og leitar sér að hesti og ríður eftir slíkt er
Kolskegg tales his weapons and seeks for himself a horse and rides after (in pursuit?) such as

hann mátti.
he might.


Gunnar ríður um Akratungu þvera og svo til Geilastofna (pl) og þaðan til Rangár
Gunnar rides across Acre-Tongue directly and so to Geilastofnar (Narrow-lanes Tree-Stumps´(?)) and from there to Rang River

og ofan til vaðs hjá Hofi. Konur voru þar á stöðli (dat sg). Gunnar hljóp af hesti
and down to (the) ford by Hof (Temple I). Women were there at (the) milking-pen. Gunnar leapt from his horse

sínum og batt. Þá riðu hinir að. Móhellur voru í götunum við vaðið.
and fastened (it). Then (the) others ride to (him). Slabs of tufa were in the path by the ford.


Gunnar mælti til þeirra: "Nú er að verja sig. Er hér nú atgeirinn. Munuð þér
Gunnar spoke to them (the men not the tufa): ’Now (one) is defend oneself. Here now is the halberd. You will

og reyna hvort eg græt nokkuð fyrir yður."
now also test whether I cry somewahat before you.’










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#8075 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: Fw: April 6 Njal 54 beginning - - Grace's translation
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
> Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra manna."
> Seems to me to be evil speech of a difficult man."

pl. vondra manna "of bad men".  'vondra' = older spelling: vándra
"bad, wicked", rather than 'vandra' "difficult".  MM & HP elaborate
slightly: "I tell you this because I hate such spiteful talk."  I
wondered if this might be proverbial, if there was some saying like
"evil is the speech of wicked men" (like the circular logic of 'ekki
má feigum forða' "nothing can save a doomed man") -- but I don't see
it listed in the Proverbs Concordance.

> en það eitt skalt þú vinna héðan í frá er þú vilt.
> "but (for?) that one you shall work henceforth where you wish."

The numeral 'einn' is being used here in the sense "only", neuter to
agree with 'það': "But henceforth you shall do only such work as you
wish to."  'vinna' "to do, to perform, to work at, etc."

> sverðinu Ölvisnaut

'nautr' = "gift".  See Ch. 30: 'Ölvir hafði gefið Gunnari sverð gott.'
  Swords are often named after a former owner like this, whether the
weapon was literally a gift, given willingly, as in this case, or
taken from a defeated enemy.

> en þó lét hærra atgeirinn

See Zoega 'láta' (11) "to sound, to make a sound".

> Það mun eigi engra tíðinda vita.

Lit. "That will (most likely) not betoken no events-of-note."  I.e.
That must mean something serious is going to happen.  See Zoega 'vita'
(6).  Same verb as 'to know', but with this specialised meaning with
the genitive "to signal, betoken, bode."  MM & HP "That promises big
events."

> ríður eftir slíkt er hann mátti'

MM & HP "...as hard as he could."

> Akratungu
> Tongue Field

Or rather "Fields' Tongue", "Tongue of Fields".

LN

#8076 From: "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: Nefnifallssýki / "Nominative Sickness" with 'langa'
konrad_oddsson
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> Vertu heill Konráð!
>
> > an interesting sidenote here about the verb 'langa':
> >
> > 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van Weenen,
Icelandic Homily Book).

> Could this be anything to do with the fact that there is another
verb dependent on 'skyldi' in this sentence: '...skyldi hverr maðr
langa ok of þat önn ala...'?

Perhaps Van Weenen is seeing a personal/impersonal distinction for
the verb which doesn't involve it taking other than an accusative
subject? You're certainly right about 'skyldi' here - maðr ends up
nominitive here regardless of 'langa'. The author doesn't elaborate
any further, so it's up to the reader to interpret it. 'of' for 'um'
(as in the sentence you quote above) seems to have been universal in
ON, where later we have 'um' instead; 'umb' was confined to the
sense 'around/about' (<*umbi). It would seem that the change was in
place by the 13th century, though. I point it out because it's a
detail that often seems to go more or less unnoticed.

> But searching on Google, I find Modern Icelandic examples such
as 'mig langar og ætla', so maybe that's not a factor. Or could the
example in Hómilíubók have been influenced by some Latin
usage?

I'm not sure. There seems to be a school of thought that the homily
books to some degree represent foreign syntax, but I'd be hard
pressed to cite examples myself ;) The foreign influence I see most
clearly is in the vocabulary (loanwords and new, stretched usages of
ON words, new formations/compounds, etc.). To name a few examples off
the top of my mind - miskunn, náð, kærleikr, öfund, synd etc. etc.
(words that aquire new connotations with Christianity; himinríki
(later himnaríki), helvíti, guðspiall (and guðspallaskald), etc. etc.
(new compounds), and guð (new word, previously only goð, which is
always neuter), and translations and/or adaptations of foreign
concepts/characters: djöfull, engill, andskoti (previously only in
the meaning 'opponent' - the one who shoots against), etc. etc.. The
list is very long indeed, but I think it's highly doubtful that this
had much, if anything, to say about syntax or phonology. I'll grant
that it's a tricky, complex topic, and that opinions differ. Still,
the older stage of the language represented gives us invaluable
insight into the finer details of ON during the earliest Catholic
period - the small differences in phonology, declension, etc. from
the 13th century standard we use today. Together with the runic
inscriptions, evidence from scaldic poetry, etc., it gives us the
tools we need to get the language of the last heathen period right,
at least on paper. That's invaluable for folk who are primarily
interested in the native Norse culture, because it gives us a more
accurate picture of their language.

> I don't know much about the history of it, so I don't know if
that's likely, but the religious subject matter makes me wonder.

;) I've read these books many times and I'm still wondering.

> The Old English verb 'langian' has a nominative subject when it
means "to lengthen", but has accusative when it means "to want, to
long for" just as in Icelandic.

'to lengthen' is 'lengja' in ON/Icelandic and takes a nominitive
subject, so no problems here. As OE and ON agree on accusative
for 'to long', my guess is that it's inherited.

> Þórhallur Eyþórsson has some more examples of nominative in place of
the usual accusative in Old Icelandic in: 'Dative vs. Nomination:
Changes in quirky subjects in Icelandic'.

> "...the investigation showed that the substitution of nominative for
oblique cases is attested already in Old Icelandic, affecting various
kinds of quirky subjects (or subject-like NPs), including Experiencers
(at least with dreyma `dream', gruna `suspect', langa `want', ugga
`fear' and undra `wonder'). Some examples of N[ominativbe] S[ickness]
from Old Icelandic texts are given in (7):"

> (7) a.
>
> Ein kona... dreymdi þann dróm.
> one woman-nom dreamt-3.sg that dream
> `One woman... dreamt that dream.' (Mar.: 1029)
>
> b.
>
> þóttist hann ok spurt hafa, at Orkneyíngar myndi
> seemed he also learned have that Orkneymen-nom would-3.pl
>
> lítt lánga til, at hann kæmi vestr þagat.
> little want to that he came westward thither
>
> `It also seemed to him that the men of the Orkneys would not be
> eager for him to come here to the west.' (Fms. VII:28)
>
> c.
>
> þetta undra víkingar.
> this wonder-3.pl vikings-nom
> `The vikings wondered at this.' (Fas. II:530)
> _____________________________________________

Interesting, indeed.

> But apparently, there is only one example of a dative being used in
Old Icelandic with such a verb that would normally have an accusative
"logical subject" ('honum skortir' in Grágás) -- although I gather
this has become a common (non-standard / frowned-upon) variant in
Modern Icelandic.  Regarding which, I found an curious comment here
about half-correct usages, with a mixture of accusative and dative,
such as * 'mig langar og honum líka' "I want and so does he" (!) [
http://www.ma.is/kenn/svp/pistlar/mars03.htm ] (líka = "also", not the
verb 'líka') -- due to people having being taught that 'mig langar' is
the correct form, but forgetting the rule.

;) Well, there are clearly a lot of mistakes being made, bad usage,
etc.. It seems typical enough of any language. Studying Hindi and
Bengali (which have a lot of speakers, dialects, variation, etc.) has
made me much more relaxed about sentences like **mig langar og honum
líka. Written and spoken language differ. As long as the speaker of
the above sentence can write correctly without guidance, I wouldn't
worry too much about mistakes in casual conversation. It's natural to
make mistakes, after all. As Þórhallur's examples show, it's even pre-
modern to make mistakes ;) There's a good argument to be made that a
standard, written language is perhaps the most important stabilizing
factor. When speakers of two dialects meet, they move towards the
standard. When we learn a new language, we learn the standard. When
everyone must refer to the standard, it tends to keep things like
'mig langar' in place without severely punishing the violators ;) So,
letting the conservatives guard and teach the standard is probably
not a bad idea. Viva Oxford Dictionary of the English Language and
company ;)

Konrad


> LN
>
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Heill Llama!
> >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> > >
> > > We had a discussion here recently about the complications of
> > saying "I like" in Icelandic [
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/message/7913 ].
> >
> > I missed this. An interesting sidenote here about the
verb 'langa':
> >
> > 'The verb langa has a personal construction: til slícs fagnaþar
> > scylde hveR maþr langa 27r20 (Hómilíubók), 31v13, etc.' (Van
Weenen,
> > Icelandic Homily Book). I'm not sure if there are any parallel
> > obsolete usages of 'líka', but **mér líkar hangikjöt won't work
in
> > Modern Icelandic. I can't explain why this is so - for some
reason it
> > breaks with inherited usage-tradition. Interestingly, the verb
> > mirrors Modern English usage in the mainland Scandinavian
languages
> > (for example, eg likar hangekjot, Modern Norwegian). It could
just be
> > English influence, but I'm not sure. In my opinion, the
contructions
> > 'mér líkar vel/illa við hangikjöt/eitthvað/einhvern'
> > (something/someone) are very good, classic modern usage, whatever
the
> > history. But if I ever run across archaic or obsolete usages
> > of 'líka', I'll rememeber to post them here for discussion ;)
> >
> > Regards,
> > Konrad
> >
> > > I wonder if this sentence could be amended to:
> > >
> > > Mér þykkir gaman at ganga á nóttum.
> > >
> > > Compare Ögmundar þáttr dytts: mér þykkir gaman at hafa hálflit
klæði
> > > "I like to wear / enjoy wearing clothes of two colours."
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stridmann" <stridmann@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > 'elska at...' Is it possible that this is a modernism?
> > > > > > This is very recent usage, totally anachronistic.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've found such exaples:
> > > > >
> > > > > "...elskaði hún hann mjög..." (EYRBYGGJA SAGA)
> > > > > "...Signý elskaði hann..." (HRANA SAGA HRINGS)
> > > > > "Haraldur konungur elskaði mjög Íslendinga." (SNEGLU-HALLA
> > ÞÁTTUR)
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tim,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I didn't really explain clearly enough what I meant.
The
> > difference is that in each of these examples, the
complement/object of
> > the verb is a noun.  This is perfectly normal in Old Icelandic;
most,
> > though not all, of the examples I saw had an animate noun as the
> > complement, as in these three examples.  The anachronism is the
use of
> > 'elska' with a clausal complement such as 'at ganga náttliga' to
> > describe an action which the subject of the
verb 'elska' "likes/loves
> > to do".
> > > >
> > > > LN
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#8077 From: "Patricia Wilson" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 3:02 pm
Subject: Njal 54 - begins - Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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I have been tring to work more slowly to see if there are less mistakes - that will remain to be seen
 
54. kafli
 
Nú er þar til máls að taka að Gunnar var úti að Hlíðarenda og sér smalamann
sinn hleypa að garði. Smalamaðurinn reið heim í túnið.
Now it is the story takes (us) to Gunnar who was outside at Hliðarend and sees the Shepherd galloping into the yard. The Shepherd rode into the Home Field
 
Gunnar mælti: "Hví ríður þú svo hart?"
Gunnat spoke "Why do you ride so hard"
 
"Eg vildi vera þér trúlyndur," segir hann. "Eg sá menn ríða ofan með
Markarfljóti átta saman og voru fjórir í litklæðum."
"I wanted to be true/faithfull to you" says he "I saw men riding down/across the Markar River - eight together and four were in bright clothing" (dressed as wealthy)
 
Gunnar mælti: "Þar mun vera Otkell."
Gunnar spoke "that would be Otkel"
 
"Vildi eg því segja þér," segir smalamaðurinn, "að eg hefi oft heyrt mörg
skapraunarorð þeirra.
"I wanted to tell you of it" says the Shepherd "that I have heard many provoking (CV) words of theirs
 
Sagði svo Skammkell austur í Dal að þú hefðir grátið
þá er þeir riðu á þig ofan. Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra manna."
Skammkel said thus in Dale in the East that you wept when they rode over you it seems to me  the evil speech of a wicked man"
 
"Ekki skulum við vera orðsjúkir," segir Gunnar, "en það eitt skalt þú vinna
héðan í frá er þú vilt."
"We shall not be word-sick(yes - touchy) over that" says Gunnar " but now you shall only work where (at what) you wish (privilege - as a reward)
 
"Skal eg nokkuð segja Kolskeggi bróður þínum?" segir smalamaðurinn.
"Shall I  tell your brother Kolskegg" says the Shepherd
 
"Far þú og sof," segir Gunnar. "Eg mun segja Kolskeggi slíkt er mér líkar."
"Go you and sleep" says Gunnar "I will tell Kolskegg when I wish/when I please"
 
Sveinninn lagðist niður og sofnaði þegar.
The Lad laid himself down and fell asleep at once (the sleep of the Just)
 
Gunnar tók smalahestinn og lagði á söðul sinn. Hann tók skjöld sinn og gyrti
sig sverðinu Ölvisnaut,
Gunnar took the Shepherd-Horse and laid his (own) saddle on it. He took up his shield, and stapped on (girded himself with) the sword (named) "Olvi's Gift"
 
setur hjálm á höfuð sér, tekur atgeirinn og söng í
honum hátt og
sets a helmet on his head and takes up the Halberð which 'rang' loudly and
 
heyrði Rannveig móðir hans
Hún gekk fram og mælti: "Reiðulegur ert þú nú son minn og ekki sá eg þig
slíkan fyrr."
Rannveig his mother heard. She stepped up and spoke *You are angry looking my Son and I saw you not so before " (he does not normally look angry)
 
Gunnar gengur út og stingur niður atgeirinum og verpur sér í söðulinn og
ríður braut. Rannveig gekk til stofu. Þar var háreysti mikið.
Gunnar goes out and thrusts down (with) the halberd and vaults (throws himself) into the saddle and rides away.(uses the weapon as a support ??) 
Rannveig  walks into the sitting room where there was a lot of noise. (somewhat like home)
 
"Hátt kveðið þér," segir hún, "en þó lét hærra atgeirinn er Gunnar gekk út."
"You talk too loudly " says she "but still the Halberð made louder when Gunnar walked out"
 
Kolskeggur heyrði og mælti: "Það mun eigi engra tíðinda vita."
Kolskegg heard and spoke "That will not mean NO Tidings" (take the opposite meaning - that WILL mean something)
 
"Það er vel," segir Hallgerður, "nú munu þeir reyna hvort hann gengur
grátandi undan þeim."
"That is well" says Hallgerð "now they will see if he walks weeping from them"
 
Kolskeggur tekur vopn sín og leitar sér að hesti og ríður eftir slíkt er
hann mátti.
Kolskegg takes up his weapons fetches a horse and rides after as (?fast as) he might
 
Gunnar ríður um Akratungu þvera og svo til Geilastofna og þaðan til Rangár
Gunnar rides across Acre Tongue direct and so to Narrow Clearing and then to Rang River
 
og ofan til vaðs hjá Hofi. Konur voru þar á stöðli. Gunnar hljóp af hesti
sínum og batt. Þá riðu hinir að. Móhellur voru í götunum við vaðið.
and down the Ford by Hof.
Women were at the milking. Gunnar leapt off his horse and tied it. Then the others rode up.  Slabs of tufa were (lay exposed - CV) in the path  by the Ford,
 
Gunnar mælti til þeirra: "Nú er að verja sig. Er hér nú atgeirinn. Munuð þér
nú og reyna hvort eg græt nokkuð fyrir yður."
Gunnar spoke to them (the men) "Now it is (the time) to defend oneself, here now is the halberð - you will now (be able) to test if I weep at all before you"
 
I am not entirely happy with this one - any Critique will be welcome
Kveðja
Patricia
 

#8078 From: "Eysteinn Bjornsson" <eysteinn@...>
Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 3:49 pm
Subject: Náttförull
eysteinnb
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>> How about, as another alternative, 'ek hefi skemtan af náttförum'?

Sounds good, - the only problem being the ambiguity. 'Náttförum'
can also be dat pl of "náttfari" (nightwalker), so the sentence
could mean "I am amused by nightwalkers".

>> I wonder if *náttgöngull would be understood in the same way

Hmmm - I can't think of an objection, but somehow it doesn't sound
as good as "náttförull". Possibly it brings to mind "svefngengill",
and veers towards "sleep-walking" in the reader's mind? Not sure.

Cheers,
E.

#8079 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Sun Apr 8, 2007 2:10 pm
Subject: Thanks, LN!
fredgrace
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Thanks for your help, LN!!
Grace

> Þykja mér ill vera orðtök vondra manna."
> Seems to me to be evil speech of a difficult man."

pl. vondra manna "of bad men". 'vondra' = older spelling: vándra
"bad, wicked", rather than 'vandra' "difficult". MM & HP elaborate
slightly: "I tell you this because I hate such spiteful talk." I
wondered if this might be proverbial, if there was some saying like
"evil is the speech of wicked men" (like the circular logic of 'ekki
má feigum forða' "nothing can save a doomed man") -- but I don't see
it listed in the Proverbs Concordance.

> en það eitt skalt þú vinna héðan í frá er þú vilt.
> "but (for?) that one you shall work henceforth where you wish."

The numeral 'einn' is being used here in the sense "only", neuter to
agree with 'það': "But henceforth you shall do only such work as you
wish to." 'vinna' "to do, to perform, to work at, etc."

> sverðinu Ölvisnaut

'nautr' = "gift". See Ch. 30: 'Ölvir hafði gefið Gunnari sverð gott.'
Swords are often named after a former owner like this, whether the
weapon was literally a gift, given willingly, as in this case, or
taken from a defeated enemy.

> en þó lét hærra atgeirinn

See Zoega 'láta' (11) "to sound, to make a sound".

> Það mun eigi engra tíðinda vita.

Lit. "That will (most likely) not betoken no events-of-note." I.e.
That must mean something serious is going to happen. See Zoega 'vita'
(6). Same verb as 'to know', but with this specialised meaning with
the genitive "to signal, betoken, bode." MM & HP "That promises big
events."

> ríður eftir slíkt er hann mátti'

MM & HP "...as hard as he could."

> Akratungu
> Tongue Field

Or rather "Fields' Tongue", "Tongue of Fields".

LN
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#8080 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 4:11 am
Subject: Vísindavefurinn
llama_nom
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http://www.visindavefur.hi.is/

Some of you may know this site already.  Besides the information in
the answers themselves, I've found it a useful place to practice
reading modern Icelandic, since the writing is intended to be clear,
and if you already know something about a particular topic, it makes
it easier to follow the meaning from the context even where you meet
unfamiliar words.

Well, I just noticed that they now have some answers in English too, e.g.

What was a fóstbræðralag ('foster-brotherhood') and why did people
make them?
http://www.visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=5432

Hvað er fóstbræðralag og hvers vegna sórust menn í fóstbræðralag?
http://www.visindavefur.hi.is/svar.asp?id=4515

I'm not sure if there's a simple way of finding the Icelandic version
from the English though.  That would be handy...

LN

#8081 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 8:35 am
Subject: Spying on the Skaldic Poetry Project: ljóðaháttr metre
llama_nom
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My other discovery today was this [
http://skaldic.arts.usyd.edu.au/db.php?table=doc&id=331 ].  Some notes
by Kari Ellen Grade on the 'ljóðaháttr' metre, for the editors of the
Skaldic Poetry of the Scandinavian Middle Ages project.  In
particular, I was interested to learn that most types of Old Norse
verse, unlike Old English, don't allow 'resolution' in the second lift
-- but that this is permitted in 'ljóðaháttr', e.g. 'brestanda boga',
'sá er yfir ölðrom þrumir', where the short initial syllable of 'boga'
and 'þrumir' counts together with the following syllable as metrically
equivalent to one land syllable.

LN

#8082 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 7:34 pm
Subject: Njal 54 end
fredgrace
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Þeir hljópu þá allir af baki og sóttu að Gunnari. Hallbjörn var fremstur.

"Sæk þú eigi að," segir Gunnar. "Þér vildi eg síst illt gera en eg mun þó
engum hlífa ef eg á hendur mínar að verja."

"Það mun ekki gera," segir Hallbjörn. Þú munt þó drepa vilja bróður minn og
er það skömm ef eg sit hjá" og lagði til Gunnars tveim höndum miklu spjóti.

Gunnar skaut fyrir skildinum en Hallbjörn lagði í gegn um skjöldinn. Gunnar
skaut svo fast niður skildinum að hann stóð fastur í jörðunni en tók til
sverðsins svo skjótt að eigi mátti auga á festa og hjó með sverðinu og kom á
höndina Hallbirni fyrir ofan úlflið svo að af tók.

Skammkell hljóp á bak Gunnari og höggur til hans með mikilli öxi. Gunnar
snerist skjótt að honum og lýstur við atgeirinum og kom undir kverk öxinni
og hraut hún úr hendi honum út á Rangá. Gunnar leggur í annað sinn
atgeirinum og í gegnum Skammkel og vegur hann upp og kastar honum í
leirgötuna að höfðinu. Auðólfur austmaður þreif upp spjót og skaut að
Gunnari. Gunnar tók á lofti spjótið og skaut aftur þegar og fló í gegnum
skjöldinn og austmanninn og niður í völlinn. Otkell höggur með sverði til
Gunnars og stefnir á fótinn fyrir neðan kné. Gunnar hljóp í loft upp og
missir Otkell hans. Gunnar leggur atgeirinum til hans og í gegnum hann. Þá
kemur Kolskeggur að og hleypur þegar að Hallkatli og höggur hann banahögg
með saxinu. Þar vega þeir þá átta.

Kona hljóp heim, er sá, og sagði Merði og bað hann skilja þá.

"Þeir einir munu vera," segir hann, "að eg hirði aldrei þó að drepist."

"Eigi munt þú það vilja mæla," segir hún, "þar mun vera Gunnar frændi þinn
og Otkell vinur þinn."

"Klifar þú nokkuð jafnan mannfýla þín," segir hann og lá hann inni meðan
þeir börðust.

Gunnar reið heim og Kolskeggur eftir verk þessi og ríða þeir hart upp eftir
eyrunum og stökk Gunnar af baki og kom standandi niður.

Kolskeggur mælti: "Hart ríður þú nú frændi."

Gunnar mælti: "Það lagði Skammkell mér til orðs er eg mælti svo: "Þér ríðið
á mig ofan.""

"Hefnt hefir þú nú þess," segir Kolskeggur.

"Hvað eg veit," segir Gunnar, "hvort eg mun því óvaskari maður en aðrir menn
sem mér þykir meira fyrir en öðrum mönnum að vega menn."

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