> betur hafa
> have better (luck? judgement?)

I don't know what the implied noun would be (if any), but the sense is
"be better off", "do better".  See CV under 'hafa' [
http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/png/oi_cleasbyvigfusson/b0229.png ], the
lower part of the right hand column, section D, subsection Beta.  Our
example is the second to last cited there.

ok þykkist sá betr hafa, er lausa lætr, en hinn, er við tekr
"and the seller is always better off than the buyer"
http://www.usask.ca/english/icelanders/proverbs_SDS.html

sá mun betr hafa er við yðr tekr
"he may be better off who accepts you"
http://books.google.com/books?id=nfU5YglHXvgC&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=%22betr+hafa\
%22&source=web&ots=UwAKQAHyrO&sig=5D5qsrMQ-uNetuekCoMaZT6msqg


> "Menn erum við til þess," segir Helgi, "að launa þér það þá er
stundir líða."
> 'We are people in that (regard).' Says Helgi, `to (ie who will)
repay you that when time goes-by (later).

"We are men (sufficient, capable, suitable) for (the task of) paying
you back later."  Konráð Gíslason and Eiríkur Jónsson's edition
confirms that 'við' is the dual pronoun = Old Norse 'vit', matching
'it' (Modern Icelandic 'þið').

þat mynda ek vilja' segir hrappr `at it
hlytið af mjer mest illt'. `menn eru vit til þess'
segir helgi `at launa þjer þat þá er stundir líða'.

http://dp.rastko.net/projects/projectID438a3f4017f9f/projectID438a3f4017f9f_TEI.\
txt

In Faarlund's terminology 'þess' is the (optional) antecedent of the
subordinate clause 'að launa þér það þá er stundir líða' (Faarlund:
The Syntax of old Norse, § 10.1.3 Nominal clauses).  He also describes
the 'að' clause as the complement of the demonstrative 'þess'.  He
gives an example of a similar sentence where the antecedent is left out:

skal ek nauðga þeim til at þeir segi mér it sanna
"I shall force them to tell me the truth"

...but says that the antecedent is used as a rule when the subordinate
clause "has the role of a subject or an adjunct":

er þat minn vili at svá gerim vér allir
"it is my wish that we all do so" (subject)

eigi vil ek úr ganga því at ek em maðr gamall
"I do not want to go out because I am an old man" (adjunct)

Google produces 1950 hits for 'til að launa' and 1120 for 'til þess að
launa', e.g.

og loks kom móðir þeirra til að launa stúlkunni góðmennsku hennar
"and in the end their mother came to reward the girl for her kindness"

Ég hef velt því svolítið fyrir mér af hverju ekki er gerð alvarleg
tilraun til þess að launa fólki það að spara.
"I've thought a bit about why a serious attempt isn't made to reward
people for saving."

LN

> [he would have been at prayer- does this mean the Earl was a Christian
but Guðbrand was Heathen or what - Heathens do not usually kneel I
thought]

Good question.  Does anyone know of any parallels?  From the context,
and from other sources, it seems as if he ought to be a heathen.  He
shares the 'hof' with his friend Guðbrandr, and presumably he
officiates there because it says that the 'hof' is only opened when
the earl goes there.  But he would have been familiar with Christian
practices too, so the author might be trying to suggest that Hákon was
taking advantage of this new-fangled method of prayer for strictly
opportunistic and utilitarian reasons.  But what ideas would 13th
century Icelanders have had about heathen ways of praying in 10th
century Norway?  And is there any information we can glean about those
ways independent of what Christians wrote much later?

LN

2c. Re: Njall 88 part 2 - - Grace's translation
     Posted by: "llama_nom" 600cell@... llama_nom
     Date: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:24 pm ((PST))


> Hrappur hleypur þar að sem þeir eru fyrir Njálssynir.
> Hrapp leaps there to where? they are before Njall's sons.

"H. runs up to Njall's sons."  Or more literally: "H. runs to where
they, Njall's sons, are present."

'hleypur að' "runs (up) to"
'þar...sem' "where" is relative (=þar...er).
'fyrir' "present" (adverbial here, rather than a preposition).
'þeir' "they" = 'Njálssynir' (nominative, thus not the complement of
the preposition 'fyrir').
'þar...sem þeir eru fyrir' "where they are present", i.e. "where they
are".

Some similar examples:

Hann gekk þar at, sem þeir Oddr ok Ásmundr hvíldu
"He goes to where O. and A. were resting"

Hon gékk þar at, er Guðríðr sat
"She goes to where G. was sitting"

hann hljóp þar at er Hildr var fyrir.
"he ran to where H. was."

Hróaldr Özurarson hljóp þar at, sem Skarpheðinn var fyrir, ok lagði
til hans.
"H. runs to where Sk. was and thrust at him."

[...] ok gengr þar at, sem einn steinn stóð.
"[...] and goes to where a certain stone stood."

Finnbogi gengur þar að sem einn steinn mikill stóð jarðfastur.
"F. goes to where a big stone stood fixed in the earth."

Grace
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

Heill Llama!

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@>
> wrote:
> >
> > But, even as much as I would never want to disagree with the
1st, he was definitely wrong about one thing - he write 'rúnar uísa
óskýrt'. Totally false, at least in his time (early 12th).

> What do you think to Einar Haugen's comment that 'rúnar' is just a
stylistic variant of 'stafir' and 'látínustafir' here?

> Nú má verða at því, at nǫkkurr svari svá: `Ek
má fullvel lesa danska tungu, þó at látínustǫfum
réttum sé ritit. Má ek þó at líkindum ráða, hvé
kveða skal, þó at eigi sé allir stafir réttræðir í
því, er ek les. Rœki ek eigi, hvárt þú rítr [ǫ]
þítt eða a, [e] eða ę, y ok u.' En ek svara svá:
Eigi er þat rúnanna kostr, þó at þú lesir vel eða
ráðir vel at líkindum; þar sem rúnar vísa óskyrt.

> Admittedly, he mentions a suggestion by Magnus Olsen that the First
Grammarian's use of the word 'rúnar' might be intended to "exress a
certain scorn of his opponents' practice".  As far as I can see, if
the First Grammarian did have a low opinion of runes, it might make
sense to interpret the word as refering here to what we would call
runes, as if to say: "You might claim you can read letters without
accents and still figure out the meaning, but consider this: you can
*even* read the runic letters--and you wouldn't call them an
adequate writing system."  Or does the definite article make it more
likely that he's referring back to the Latin letters he's just
mentioned?  Are there any examples where 'rúnar' is used
unambiguously of Latin letters?  Can we read anything into his
example:

> 'runar heita geltir, en rúnar málstafir'
"male pigs are called boars, but letters are called runes"

Yes, I think rúnar refers to letters here and above. I also incline
toward the view that this was also the original, basic meaning of
the word, and that secondary usages evolved therefrom - that things
which could be represented by written runes, such as sayings, bits
of lore, etc., or even a speaking companion (rúni/rúna), could be
thus refered to. Compare Óðins use of 'fornir stafir' to refer to
the knowledge of Vafþrúðnir jötunn. In runic inscriptions both
the
words rúnar and stafir refer to the inscribed characters themselves,
and are widely attested. The secondary meanings are, of course,
natural. One can see that even in an inscriptional instance where
the literal meaning seems indicated, such as 'þórr uígi þessar
rúnar', one can by extension assume that Þórr is invoked to hallow
the entire grave monument - in fact, þórr uígi þessi kuml does
also
occur in extant inscription. Fimbultýs fornar rúnar (Völuspá -
end)
is another example where the meaning seems to refer to events and
tidings from the reign of Óðinn, and relating to him, rather than to
Óðins alphabet as such, despite the fact that this god is also the
inventer of the written runes. A complex word indeed ;-) Still, and
despite the lack of attestation, I have no doubt that the Goths also
called the characters of their native alphabet runes *rûnôs. Modern
English also preserves the basic meaning, as well as the original
use of 'read and write' (ON ráða and (v)ríta). Both
ráða and (v)ríta
occur in inscriptons in their original, basic meanings of 'to read
and write', although (v)ríta is rare because runes were inscribed
(ristnar, rísta) on rocks. Snorri 'lét ríta' in Heimskringla.
ráð þú
rúnar, ráð rúnar þ¿r reginkunnu, ráði
sás kunni, etc. all occur in
inscriptions, meaning 'read'. Lesa and skrifa are secondary in ON,
the latter a foreign borrowing, the former an extended meaning from
ON lesa (to collect, gather, etc.). Our forefathers, then, would
both rísta and (v)ríta rúnar, as well as ráða
rúnar (read runes).
Not that all of this relates to your original qustion about how the
1st uses the word, but why not mention it for history's sake ;-)

> Einar Haugen's translation implies that 'rúnar' is synonymous with
'málstafir'.  But perhaps that's not necessarily the case, given
examples like: 'öl heitir drykkr' "beer is a drink", "there is a
drink called ale".  Would it be equally possible to interpret the
above as "there are (some) letters (which are) called runes"?

It seems that the word 'stafr', which beside 'rún' refers to a
letter or written character in inscriptions, was entering general
use as a term for a Latin letter by the 1st's time, but that 'rún'
was being set aside as a designation for a letter of the common
folk's alphabet in contrast. This is a new development, as both
words originally only refered to runic characters, and Latin ones
were not in use. I think it likely that the 1st takes part in this
new development, prefering 'stafr' for a Latin character and 'rún'
for a native one. What strikes me most about his comment here,
however, is that while he has to introduce 4 new vowel characters to
write ON in Latin characters, 9 vowel characters were already in
common runic use at the time, even in Ari's time. It seems that the
idea of one universal religion, and by extention, one european, and
world, state that arose as a result of Rome's adoptation of, and
exportation of, Christianity necessarily meant that all subjects of
the new, universal empire should be using the alphabet of this same
universal empire, or at least a variant thereof. It seems that the
church's early elite in Nordic countries, therefore, had a somewhat
ambiguous attitude toward the native alphabet. It's use was very
widespread indeed, and the characters well suited to the language,
but on the other hand they had no history within, or connection to,
the church's traditions. Young church intellectuals were probably
also eager to show their learning, which at that time took place in
the Latin language. The could have made Latin characters a sign of
prestige, as the common folk could not read them. The spreading of
the Latin alphabet to the common man after the reformation, via the
printing press and the good priests whose job it was to travell to
countryside and teach the children letters, masks the fact that the
runic alphabet was the one, true alphabet of the common folk down to
the time of the reformation, and in some places even later. It's a
fact of history that is conveniently overlooked to this day.

Konrad

> LN
>

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
wrote:

> Yes, I think rúnar refers to letters here and above. I also incline
> toward the view that this was also the original, basic meaning of
> the word, and that secondary usages evolved therefrom - that things
> which could be represented by written runes, such as sayings, bits
> of lore, etc., or even a speaking companion (rúni/rúna), could be
> thus refered to. Compare Óðins use of 'fornir stafir' to refer to
> the knowledge of Vafþrúðnir jötunn. In runic inscriptions both the
> words rúnar and stafir refer to the inscribed characters themselves,
> and are widely attested. The secondary meanings are, of course,
> natural. One can see that even in an inscriptional instance where
> the literal meaning seems indicated, such as 'þórr uígi þessar
> rúnar', one can by extension assume that þórr is invoked to hallow
> the entire grave monument - in fact, þórr uígi þessi kuml does also
> occur in extant inscription. Fimbultýs fornar rúnar (Völuspá - end)
> is another example where the meaning seems to refer to events and
> tidings from the reign of Óðinn, and relating to him, rather than to
> Óðins alphabet as such, despite the fact that this god is also the
> inventer of the written runes. A complex word indeed ;-) Still, and
> despite the lack of attestation, I have no doubt that the Goths also
> called the characters of their native alphabet runes *rûnôs. Modern
> English also preserves the basic meaning, as well as the original
> use of 'read and write' (ON ráða and (v)ríta). Both ráða and (v)ríta
> occur in inscriptons in their original, basic meanings of 'to read
> and write', although (v)ríta is rare because runes were inscribed
> (ristnar, rísta) on rocks. Snorri 'lét ríta' in Heimskringla. ráð; þú;
> rúnar, ráð; rúnar þær reginkunnu, ráði sás kunni, etc. all occur in
> inscriptions, meaning 'read'. Lesa and skrifa are secondary in ON,
> the latter a foreign borrowing, the former an extended meaning from
> ON lesa (to collect, gather, etc.). Our forefathers, then, would
> both rísta and (v)ríta rúnar, as well as ráða rúnar (read runes).
> Not that all of this relates to your original qustion about how the
> 1st uses the word, but why not mention it for history's sake ;-)

Heill Konráð!  The accented letters in your message got a bit garbled
at the Yahoo website, so I've filled in what I *think* you wrote; I
hope I haven't made any major mistakes; knowing our luck, they'll
probably just get garbled all over again :-)  Yes, 'skrifa' is
ultimately from Latin 'scrîbere' "to write", and 'lesa' a loan
translation of Latin 'legere' "to gather" -- not part of the inherited
Germanic terminology for reading and writing.  (Incidentally, I first
learnt that from a book that was published of the letters of JRR
Tolkien.  In one he writes about how he mistakenly used the Gothic
cognate 'lisan' in one of his early attemots to write in Gothic,
before he learnt that Go. 'lisan' still only meant "to gather".)  I
suppose they must have been taken into Old Norse from German
missionaries (compare Old Saxon 'scrîban', with crossed 'b', and
'lesan').  In this respect, English was more conservative than
Continental West Germanic and clung on to its native terms: 'read' and
'write'.  On the other hand, Modern English 'rune' isn't a direct
descendent of Old English 'rún', but was reintroduced in the 17th
century from the Old Norse word.  The native word survived into Middle
English as 'roun'; the last citations in the Oxford English dictionary
are from about 1400.  If it had survived, we'd most likely spell it
'rown' and rhyme it with 'brown' < OE brún.  The related verb 'rúnian'
"whisper, mutter, murmur; talk privately, give counsel" survived into
Early Modern English, eventually acquiring a 'd' to become 'round'
(not related to the word meaning "circular"!); it's now obsolete in
Standard English.

In Old English, the simplex 'rún' has the senses 'whisper; mystery;
secret' [ http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/%7Ekiernan/BT/bosworth.htm ].  A
runic letter is 'rúnstæf', as in Béowulf: 'rúnstafas rihte gemearcod'
"runestaves marked aright" (on the hilt of a sword).  There are a few
examples from late Old English and Middle English of 'rún' with the
meaning "runic letter", and I think it's been suggested that these
might be due to Old Norse influence, but I guess we can't be sure
about that.  These include the collocation 'rúne wrítan', and the Old
English ltranslation of Bede's History renders 'litteras solutorias'
as 'alýsendlecan rúne' "loosening letters", magical characters
supposed to have the power of freeing someone from fetters.  In some
other examples from late OE and ME, it even has the meaning "book,
writing, epistle".

In Old Saxon 'rûn' is "counsel, conference"; in Old High German
"whisper; mystery; letter" (which should make us wary of discounting
the possibility that letter was among the meanings inherited from very
early times).  Gothic 'rûn' translates Greek MUSTERION "mystery";
BOULH "descision"; BOULH, SUMBOULION "counsel, plan, plot", either
consultation and planning made between people, or the secret plans in
people's hearts (in the sense of a consultation between people,
SUMBOULION, 'rûn' appears to be synonymous with 'ga-rûni').  Besides
this, there is the compound 'haliurunnas' = Lat. 'magas mulieries'
"witches" in Jordanes (i.e. *halja-rûnôs, cognate with Old English
'hellerúnan' "witches, wizards"; Old High German 'helli-rûna'
"necromancy").

There are no examples of Go. 'rûn' used with the meaning "letter"
(which of course doesn't rule out anything, given the smallness of the
surviving corpus, and the fact that most regions where Gothic was
spoken are completely unrepresented); instead we have 'bôka' "letter
of the alphabet; document, deed, charter" and in the plural "book,
scripture".  Greek ANAGNWSIS is translated in the Gothic Bibles as
'saggws boko', literally "singing of letters / book-singing",
ANAGINWSKEIN "to read" by 'siggwan bôkô' "to sing letters / to sing a
book or books".  Go. 'us-siggwan' "read, recite" (literally "sing
out") corresponds to Greek ANAGNWNAI, Latin 'legere'.  On English
'book', the OED comments: "The original meaning was evidently
`writing-tablet, leaf, or sheet': cf. Venantius Fortunatus Carm. vii.
18, 19 `barbara fraxineis pingatur runa tabellis', also OS. thia bôk
the writing-tablet, `pugillaris' Luke i. 63 (in Heliand 232, 235), OE.
bóc charter: in pl. tablets, written sheets, hence `book,' a sense
subseq. extended to the singular."  And Old Norse 'bók' also has that
sense of fabric, textile: 'boekr váru þínar inar bláhvítu...'

All this seems to point to a native tradition of writing on bark,
which ties in nicely with the early Slavic birch bark inscriptions we
mentioned recently.  The OED casts doubt on this idea, saying "there
are great difficulties in reconciling the early forms of the two
words, seeing that bôk-s `writing-tablet' is the most primitive of
all."  Presumably the thinking there is that *'bôk-s' looks like the
more basic form, *'bôkjôn' the derivative, but I can't really see that
this is such a big problem that it disqualifies the idea.  Maybe the
term for the tree became the regular word for a piece of bark used for
writing, then later a derivative was coined to refer more specifically
to the tree; any number of twists and turns in sense could have
happened, with words from the same root becoming more generalised or
more restricted:

"I saw some book in the forest today."
"What was it about?"
"No, I mean the still growing kind of book, you know, a book-tree, a
beech."

LN

Hrappur sneri þá til móts við Þráin Sigfússon og bað hann ásjá.

"Hvað er þér á höndum?" segir Þráinn.

Hrappur mælti: "Brennt hefi eg goðahús fyrir jarli og drepið menn nokkura og
mun hann hér kona brátt því að hann er sjálfur í eftirleitinni."

"Varla samir mér það," segir Þráinn, "svo mikið gott sem jarl hefir mér
gert."

Þá sýndi Hrappur Þráni gripina þá er hann hafði borið úr goðahúsinu og bauð
að gefa honum féið. Þráinn sagði að hann mundi eigi þiggja nema annað fé
kæmi í mót.

Hrappur mælti: "Hér mun eg stað nema og skal mig hér drepa fyrir augum þér
og munt þú þá bíða af hvers manns ámæli."

Þá sjá þeir ferð jarls og manna hans. Þá tók Þráinn við Hrappi en lét skjóta
báti og fluttist út á skipið.

Þráinn mælti: "Nú er þetta fylgsni helst að brjóta botn úr tunnum tveim og
skalt þú þar fara í."

Svo var gert að hann fór í tunnurnar og voru bundnar saman síðan og látnar
fyrir borð.

Þá kemur jarl með liði sínu til Njálssona og spurði ef Hrappur hefði komið
þar. Þeir sögðu að hann kom. Jarl spurði hvert hann færi þaðan. Þeir kváðust
eigi reiður hafa á hent.

Jarl mælti: "Sá skyldi mikla sæmd af mér hafa er mér segði til Hrapps."

Grímur mælti hljótt við Helga: "Fyrir hví skulum við eigi segja? Eg veit
eigi nema Þráinn launi okkur engu góðu."

"Eigi skulum við segja að heldur," segir Helgi, "þar er líf hans liggur
við."

Grímur mælti: "Vera kann að jarl snúi á okkur hefndinni því að hann er svo
reiður að niður mun nokkur verða að koma."

"Ekki munum við að því fara," segir Helgi, "en þó skulum við nú í braut
leggja skipinu og í haf þegar er gefur."

"Skulum við nú ekki bíða Kára?" segir Grímur.

"Ekki mun eg um það hirða nú," segir Helgi.

Þeir leggja út undir eyna og bíða þar byrjar.

Jarl gekk að skipamönnum og leitaði við alla þá en allir duldu að né eitt
vissu til Hrapps.

Þá mælti jarl: "Nú munum vér fara að finna Þráin félaga minn og mun hann
selja fram manninn ef hann veit nokkuð til."

Hrappur sneri þá til móts við Þráin Sigfússon og bað hann ásjá.

Hrapp turned then to meet with Þráin Sigfússon asked him for help.

"Hvað er þér á höndum?" segir Þráinn.

"What is on your hands? (What did you do wrong?)" says Þráin.

  Hrappur mælti: "Brennt hefi eg goðahús fyrir jarli og drepið menn nokkura
og mun hann

Hrapp spoke, "I have burned (the) temple of (the) earl and killed some men
and he will

hér kona brátt því að hann er sjálfur í eftirleitinni."

come (typo) here soon because he is himself in the search party."

"Varla samir mér það," segir Þráinn, "svo mikið gott sem jarl hefir mér
gert."

"It scarcely befits me," says Þráin, "so much good that (the) earl has done
for me."

Þá sýndi Hrappur Þráni gripina þá er hann hafði borið úr goðahúsinu og bauð
að gefa

Then Hrapp showed Þráin valuables then which he had carried out of the
temple and offered to give

honum féið. Þráinn sagði að hann mundi eigi þiggja nema annað fé kæmi í mót.

him (the) wealth.  Þráin said that he would not accept unless other money
would come in return.

  Hrappur mælti: "Hér mun eg stað nema og skal mig hér drepa fyrir augum þér
og munt

Hrapp spoke, "Here I will stop and here (they) shall kill me before your
eyes and you will

þú þá bíða af hvers manns ámæli."

then suffer from every man's reproach."

Þá sjá þeir ferð jarls og manna hans. Þá tók Þráinn við Hrappi en lét skjóta
báti og fluttist út á skipið.

Then they see (the) earl's journey and his men.  Then Þráin accepted Hrapp
and had boats launched and removed  out to (the) ship.

Þráinn mælti: "Nú er þetta fylgsni helst að brjóta botn úr tunnum tveim og
skalt þú þar fara í."

Þráin spoke, "Now this is (the) best hiding place to break out (the) bottoms
of two barrels and you shall travel therein."

Svo var gert að hann fór í tunnurnar og voru bundnar saman síðan og látnar
fyrir borð.

So (it) was done that he traveled in barrels and (they) were bound together
afterwards and lowered over board.

Þá kemur jarl með liði sínu til Njálssona og spurði ef Hrappur hefði komið
þar. Þeir

Then (the) earl comes with his troop to Njall's sons and asked if Hrapp had
come there.  They

sögðu að hann kom. Jarl spurði hvert hann færi þaðan. Þeir kváðust eigi
reiður hafa á hent.

said that he came.  (The) earl asked  where he (had) gone thence.  They said
of themselves not to have suitable? accommodation??  (M & P have 'hadn't
paid any attention.')

Jarl mælti: "Sá skyldi mikla sæmd af mér hafa er mér segði til Hrapps."

(The) earl spoke, "Such a one should have great honours from me who would
tell me about Hrapp."

Grímur mælti hljótt við Helga: "Fyrir hví skulum við eigi segja? Eg veit
eigi nema Þráinn

Grim spoke quietly with Helgi, "For what reason shall we not tell?   I don't
know but that Þráin

launi okkur engu góðu."

repays us with nothing good."

"Eigi skulum við segja að heldur," segir Helgi, "þar er líf hans liggur
við."

"We shall not tell all the more," says Helgi, "since his life depends on
(it)."

Grímur mælti: "Vera kann að jarl snúi á okkur hefndinni því að hann er svo
reiður að

Grim spoke, " (It) is possible (he) earl finds out and turns the revenge on
us because he is so angry that

niður mun nokkur verða að koma."

someone will come down (suffer for the crime)."

"Ekki munum við að því fara," segir Helgi, "en þó skulum við nú í braut
leggja skipinu og í haf þegar er gefur."

"We will not go that (way)," says Helgi, "but still we shall now sail away
and out to sea

at once when a wind blows."

"Skulum við nú ekki bíða Kára?" segir Grímur.

"Shall we now not wait for Kari? says Grim.

"Ekki mun eg um það hirða nú," segir Helgi.

"I will not care about it now," says Helgi

Þeir leggja út undir eyna og bíða þar byrjar.

They put out under an island and wait there  for the wind.

Jarl gekk að skipamönnum og leitaði við alla þá en allir duldu að né eitt
vissu til Hrapps.

(The) earl went to ( the) seamen and asked all of them but all professed
that not one knew about Hrapp.

Þá mælti jarl: "Nú munum vér fara að finna Þráin félaga minn og mun hann
selja fram manninn ef hann veit nokkuð til."

Then (the) earl spoke, "Now we will go to find Þráin, my comrade, and he
will give up

the man if he knows anything about it."


Grace
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

> Þá kemur jarl með liði sínu til Njálssona og spurði ef Hrappur hefði
(why not væri?) komið
> Then (the) earl comes with his troop to Njál's sons and asked if
Hrapp had come

It's not uncommon in Old Norse to form the perfect tense of 'koma'
with the auxiliary 'hafa' as an alternative to forming the perfect
with 'vera':

(1) a. hann hafði komit af landi ofan (Örvar-Odds saga).
b. hann hafði komit þangat (Egils saga).
c. Hann hafði komit út með Þorgrími prúða (Víglundar saga).
d. Birni kom í hug, at hann hafði komit til Þórðar, áðr hann foeri
vestr (Bjarnar saga Hítdoelakappa.
e. Af því að hann hafði komið til konungs á undan Gunnlaugi (Gunnlaugs
saga Ormstungu).
f. Þorkell hafði fylgt Haraldi konungi til Noregs þá fyrst er hann
hafði komit til lands (Heimskringla: Magnúss saga blinda ok Haralds
gilla, Heimskringla).
g. er hann hafði komit í þessa ferð (Heimskringla: Saga Inga konungs
ok broeðra hans).

(2) a. Hann er kominn í fjörð þann, er Skuggi heitir (Örvar-Odds saga).
b. Ok er hann er kominn í hásæti (Norna-Gests þáttr).
c. þegar hann er kominn í fiskimannsgervið (Orkneyinga saga).
d. ok er þat allt í senn, at göltrinn ferr þar niðr, sem hann er
kominn (Hrólfs saga kraka).
e. ok svá sem hann er kominn í höll þína við sínum mönnum (Hrólfs saga
Gautrekssonar).
f. Sem hann er kominn undir höfuðmerkit (Karlamagnús saga).
g. Hún snarast við fast ok sér, hvar hann er kominn (Sturlaugs saga
starfsama).

Faarlund cites our example from Njáls saga (The Syntax of Old Norse §
8.3.2) and comments later, "The verb 'vera' with the perfect
participle of an intransitive verb is used to form the perfect. It is
used only with verbs of transition or motion, and is an alternative to
'hafa' with the supine. [...] There may be a nuance of meaning between
the perfect with 'hafa' [...] and with 'vera'. With 'hafa' the action
  or movement itself is highlighted. With 'vera' it is rather the
result of the action which is highlighted" (§ 8.3.3).

Old Norse Online says, "One occasionally finds such intransitive verbs
with hafa as auxiliary: Gunnarr hafði komit at Hlíðarenda fyrr um
daginn 'Gunnar had come to Slope's End before daybreak' (Chapter 8, §
40.2 [ http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-8-X.html ]).

Hi all

I would like to propose a doubt that I have regarding this poem by
Snæbjörn:

Hvatt kveða hrœra Grótta
hergrimmastan skerja
út fyr jarðar skauti
eylúðrs níu brúðir,
þær es, lungs, fyr löngu
líðmeldr, skipa hlíðar
baugskerðir rístr barði
ból, Amlóða mólu.

One can find it at http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/skindex/snaeb.html

The syntaxis is usually stressed as follows:

Kveða níu brúðir eylúðrs hroera hvatt hergrimmastan Grotta skerja út
fyr jarðar skauti, þær er mólu fyr lóngu líðmeldr Amlóða. Baugskerðir
rístr barði lungs ból hlíðar skipa.

My doubt is on the case of "líðmeldr". The sentence in which the word
appears should mean approximately: "they (the nine maids) who long
since have ground the corn of Amlóði's liquor". Thus, I would
expect "líðmeldr" to be in accusative form, but it seems rather to be
a nominative form, since "meldr" is a masculine noun, presenting
its "-r" desinence. I conclude that we have a sentence with two
nominative nouns, which would be a nonsense.

Could this be a simple error of the copyist, or could the -r
of "meldr" be radical and not inflexive? Or is this sentence to be
interpreted in some other way?

Many thanks in advance for your attention,

Stefano

Hi Stefano,

Not every 'r' at the end of Old Norse words is the nominative marker.
  Sometimes, as in 'meldr', 'r' belongs to the root.  In the nominative
singular of masculine nouns, if the root ends in a consonant followed
by 'r', the 'r' of the nominative singular inflection isn't expressed.

NOMINATIIVE meldr
ACCUSATIVE meldr
GENITIVE meldrs or meldrar
DATIVE meldri

E.g. 'þá kvað þat Menja, var til meldrs komin' "then Menja said this,
[she] had come to the grinding".  You can usually see from
dictionaries whether the 'r' is part of the root by looking at the
genitive.

By the way, the word was borrowed from Norse settlers into Scottish
and Northern English dialects where it survives as 'melder'.  Old
Norse loanwords in English don't retain inflectional 'r'.  So we have
Modern English 'knife' : Old Norse 'knífr' (masculine acc.sg. 'kníf',
gen.sg. 'knífs'), but Modern English 'slaughter' : Old Norse 'slátr'
(neuter acc.sg. 'slátr', gen.sg. 'slátrs').

The 'r' is also present in the related Old High German 'maltar' and
Old Saxon 'maldar'.  Proto-Germanic *z (which became 'r' in Old Norse)
was dropped in West Germanic in final position, showing that the 'r'
in these words must be part of the root.

Lama Nom


--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Stefano Mazza" <stefanomzz@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I would like to propose a doubt that I have regarding this poem by
> Snæbjörn:
>
> Hvatt kveða hrœra Grótta
> hergrimmastan skerja
> út fyr jarðar skauti
> eylúðrs níu brúðir,
> þær es, lungs, fyr löngu
> líðmeldr, skipa hlíðar
> baugskerðir rístr barði
> ból, Amlóða mólu.
>
> One can find it at http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/skindex/snaeb.html
>
> The syntaxis is usually stressed as follows:
>
> Kveða níu brúðir eylúðrs hroera hvatt hergrimmastan Grotta skerja út
> fyr jarðar skauti, þær er mólu fyr lóngu líðmeldr Amlóða. Baugskerðir
> rístr barði lungs ból hlíðar skipa.
>
> My doubt is on the case of "líðmeldr". The sentence in which the word
> appears should mean approximately: "they (the nine maids) who long
> since have ground the corn of Amlóði's liquor". Thus, I would
> expect "líðmeldr" to be in accusative form, but it seems rather to be
> a nominative form, since "meldr" is a masculine noun, presenting
> its "-r" desinence. I conclude that we have a sentence with two
> nominative nouns, which would be a nonsense.
>
> Could this be a simple error of the copyist, or could the -r
> of "meldr" be radical and not inflexive? Or is this sentence to be
> interpreted in some other way?
>
> Many thanks in advance for your attention,
>
> Stefano
>

'lúðr' is another of these words with radical 'r', as you can see from
the genitive 'lúðrs'.  It's masculine too.

> Hvatt kveða hrœra Grótta
> hergrimmastan skerja
> út fyr jarðar skauti
> eylúðrs níu brúðir,
> þær es, lungs, fyr löngu
> líðmeldr, skipa hlíðar
> baugskerðir rístr barði
> ból, Amlóða mólu.

Heill Llama!

> The accented letters in your message got a bit garbled at the
Yahoo website, so I've filled in what I *think* you wrote; I
hope I haven't made any major mistakes; knowing our luck, they'll
probably just get garbled all over again :-)

Yes :-) It doesn't help that I'm hopping from machine to machine,
either.

> Yes, 'skrifa' is ultimately from Latin 'scrîbere' "to write",
and 'lesa' a loan translation of Latin 'legere' "to gather" -- not
part of the inherited Germanic terminology for reading and writing.
(Incidentally, I first learnt that from a book that was published of
the letters of JRR Tolkien.  In one he writes about how he
mistakenly used the Gothic cognate 'lisan' in one of his early
attemots to write in Gothic, before he learnt that Go. 'lisan' still
only meant "to gather".)

Interesting. It's sad that no Nordic tongue preserves the original
terminology here in modern times.

> I suppose they must have been taken into Old Norse from German
missionaries (compare Old Saxon 'scrîban', with crossed 'b', and
'lesan').  In this respect, English was more conservative than
Continental West Germanic and clung on to its native terms: 'read'
and 'write'.

Technically, these terms should be used in Nordic tongues as well.
Of course, they will never be re-introduced, even if they are the
correct terms, not even in Icelandic.

> On the other hand, Modern English 'rune' isn't a direct descendent
of Old English 'rún', but was reintroduced in the 17th century from
the Old Norse word.  The native word survived into Middle
English as 'roun'; the last citations in the Oxford English
dictionary are from about 1400.  If it had survived, we'd most
likely spell it 'rown' and rhyme it with 'brown' < OE brún.  The
related verb 'rúnian' "whisper, mutter, murmur; talk privately, give
counsel" survived into Early Modern English, eventually acquiring
a 'd' to become 'round' (not related to the word
meaning "circular"!); it's now obsolete in Standard English.

Rown sounds nice. Read ye english rowns, good men of the land :-)

> In Old English, the simplex 'rún' has the senses 'whisper; mystery;
secret' [ http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/%7Ekiernan/BT/bosworth.htm ].
A runic letter is 'rúnstæf', as in Béowulf: 'rúnstafas rihte gemearcod'
"runestaves marked aright" (on the hilt of a sword).  There are a few
examples from late Old English and Middle English of 'rún' with the
meaning "runic letter", and I think it's been suggested that these
might be due to Old Norse influence, but I guess we can't be sure
about that.  These include the collocation 'rúne wrítan', and the Old
English ltranslation of Bede's History renders 'litteras solutorias'
as 'alýsendlecan rúne' "loosening letters", magical characters
supposed to have the power of freeing someone from fetters.  In some
other examples from late OE and ME, it even has the meaning "book,
writing, epistle".

Interesting. Yahoo is rejecting the special runes, but I am doing my
best to read them ;-)

> In Old Saxon 'rûn' is "counsel, conference"; in Old High German
"whisper; mystery; letter" (which should make us wary of discounting
the possibility that letter was among the meanings inherited from
very early times).  Gothic 'rûn' translates Greek
MUSTERION "mystery"; BOULH "descision"; BOULH, SUMBOULION "counsel,
plan, plot", either consultation and planning made between people,
or the secret plans in people's hearts (in the sense of a
consultation between people, SUMBOULION, 'rûn' appears to be
synonymous with 'ga-rûni').  Besides this, there is the
compound 'haliurunnas' = Lat. 'magas mulieries' "witches" in
Jordanes (i.e. *halja-rûnôs, cognate with Old English
'hellerúnan' "witches, wizards"; Old High German 'helli-rûna'
"necromancy").

> There are no examples of Go. 'rûn' used with the meaning "letter"
(which of course doesn't rule out anything, given the smallness of
the surviving corpus, and the fact that most regions where Gothic was
spoken are completely unrepresented); instead we have 'bôka' "letter
of the alphabet; document, deed, charter" and in the plural "book,
scripture".  Greek ANAGNWSIS is translated in the Gothic Bibles as
'saggws boko', literally "singing of letters / book-singing",
ANAGINWSKEIN "to read" by 'siggwan bôkô' "to sing letters / to sing a
book or books".  Go. 'us-siggwan' "read, recite" (literally "sing
out") corresponds to Greek ANAGNWNAI, Latin 'legere'.  On English
'book', the OED comments: "The original meaning was evidently
`writing-tablet, leaf, or sheet': cf. Venantius Fortunatus Carm. vii.
18, 19 `barbara fraxineis pingatur runa tabellis', also OS. thia bôk
the writing-tablet, `pugillaris' Luke i. 63 (in Heliand 232, 235),
OE. bóc charter: in pl. tablets, written sheets, hence `book,' a sense
subseq. extended to the singular."  And Old Norse 'bók' also has that
sense of fabric, textile: 'boekr váru þínar inar bláhvítu...'

Yes, Norse preserved this sense, just like it preserved 'read and
write' down to the introduction of Latin writing, and even longer in
inscriptions. Of course, the above mentioned sense of 'book' is long
since dead, as I'm sure that you know. I wouldn't expect the Gothic
term 'rune' to occur in the extant corpus with the meaning 'letter',
so it hardly surprises me that it does not occur, even if it is an
original and basic meaning of the word.

> All this seems to point to a native tradition of writing on bark,
which ties in nicely with the early Slavic birch bark inscriptions we
mentioned recently.  The OED casts doubt on this idea, saying "there
are great difficulties in reconciling the early forms of the two
words, seeing that bôk-s `writing-tablet' is the most primitive of
all."  Presumably the thinking there is that *'bôk-s' looks like the
more basic form, *'bôkjôn' the derivative, but I can't really see
that this is such a big problem that it disqualifies the idea.
Maybe the term for the tree became the regular word for a piece of
bark used for writing, then later a derivative was coined to refer
more specifically to the tree; any number of twists and turns in
sense could have happened, with words from the same root becoming
more generalised or more restricted:

> "I saw some book in the forest today."
> "What was it about?"
> "No, I mean the still growing kind of book, you know, a book-tree,
a beech."

:-) Yes. Compare ON 'bjarkan', the name of the b-rune. It also seems
clear to me that the oldest native tradition was writing on the bark
of the birch. I don't think that the term 'lesa' occurs in any of
the extant inscriptions, but perhaps it can be found in a very late
inscription (not sure). On the other hand, 'read' is frequent. One
of my favourites is 'sa skal runar rista es rada uel kunni' (found
in Norway - taking no chances with Yahoo here - 'he shal cut runes
who well can read them'). Both 'rista' and '(v)rita' are attested in
inscription, the former more common due to the materials on which
the runes occur. 'hoggva', 'marka', etc. also occur. Technically,
the term '(v)rita'(long i, strong declension, later weak) is the
most correct Norse term for writing on paper, being mostly a kind of
synonym for 'rista' (long) in inscriptions (X (v)reit runar - 'X
wrote the runes'), probably also on the ancient 'vaxspjald', a few
examples of which have survived (it was a specially shaped wooden
board with a raised frame around the edges, onto which wax was
poured and then written on when the wax had dried - in this way, one
could erase mistakes easily, as well as take out the wax tablet and
pour in new wax, if the 'writ' was to be kept). Speaking of 'writ',
there rare Norse term '(v)rit' (long i, fem.conson.-stem) survives
as a term for a shield, presumably because pictures (and runes) were
often painted on shields. In earlier, but likely unattested use, the
term = English 'writ', as can be seem by it's transfer to painted,
or runic, shields. One can also easily see how this term could also
be taken to mean 'book'.

Konrad


> LN
>

During the first grammarian's time, west norse dialects used 23
runes, as is well attested in extant inscription. They were:

fuþorkhniastbmly - the original 16 named runes
oøgeædp - 7 additional, based on the named ones.

o was originally hooked-o, but was inverted to form o in Norwegian
use about 1000-1030. Subsequently, the top bar was drawn through the
line to form hooked-o, leaving the bottom short (Junicode has it).
If both bars were drawn through the line, it was ø instead of o. k
and i were punctuated to form g and e, respectively. As the west
norse a-rune had its bar only to the left of the stave, it was drawn
through to form æ (just like with hooked o and ø). t was punctuated
to form d, and the top and bottom of the b-rune were drawn out to
form p (it looks like a mirrored k-rune). Simple enough. Now, this
is all that is needed to write Norse. Therefore, I commented that
the 1st grammarians claim that 'runar uisa oskyrt' is false,
countering that the common folk had already developed all of the
characters needed to write Norse before the 1st developed the new
Latin characters needed to write Norse with Latin characters. To
compete with the 1st, all that the common man would have to do it
add accents to lengthen vowels (or consonants - compare the 1st's
use of capitals to denote double consonants). And that's all. It was
really that simple in his time, which is what makes his comment here
unexplainable. He could just as well have added accents to his own
countrymen's runes (and dots if he wanted to denote nasals, but it's
never needed with short nasal vowels, as they always occur before or
after preserved n/m). Instead, the common alfphabet seems to have
been neglected, the cost being hundreds of years of illiteracy.
Writing, it seems, had to belong to the clerical elite, and the man
on the farm should not be able to read the elite's runes. It seems
that the Latin alphabet was a symbol of power, of association with
the current Holy Roman Empire. The problem was that the common folk
already had a sufficient alphabet by the 1st's time, having formed
it themselves from the original 16 apopted from Danish use about 300
years earlier. It's a fact of history that is conveniently ignored
by those who which to credit the church with the introduction of all
writing. What the church introduced was the art of making skinbooks,
which in itself has local and practical, rather than specifically
clerical, origins in Europe. Given that we cannot change history, I
will bet that our knowledge of history, and well as the number and
quality of ancient writings, would be far greater if parts of the
old tithe (the tenth collected by the church in taxes) were required
by law to go to the production and distribution of writing material
for the common man, with no alphabet-strings attached. Had that
happened in Iceland, then modern Icelanders would almost certainly
have their original alphabet to this day, given only that the forces
of the reformation had not destroyed it (possible), not to mention
that surviving literature would have a different character entirely,
with more diverging points of view, styles, contents, etc. This is
probably the only scenario in which one might expect something like
a full Eddic corpus with variants from local tradition to survive,
simply because it's what the common folk had to write, besides their
geneologies, family history, etc.. Sour food for thought, given what
happened. Still, the common folk still deserve full credit to this
day for their ingenious (and complete) native alphabet.

Konrad

Eftir það tóku þeir langskip eitt og fóru út til kaupskipsins. Þráinn
kennir ferð jarls og stendur upp og fagnar honum blíðlega.

Jarl tók því vel og mælti svo: "Manns þess leitum vér er heitir
Hrappur og er íslenskur. Hann hefir gert oss hvetvetna illt. Viljum
vér nú þess biðja yður að þér seljið hann fram eða segið til hans."

Þráinn mælti: "Vissuð þér að eg drap útlaga yðvarn herra og hætti þar
til lífi mínu og þá eg fyrir það af yður stórsæmdir."

"Meiri sæmdir skalt þú nú hafa," segir jarl.

Þráinn hugsaði fyrir sér og þóttist eigi vita hvað jarl mundi mest
meta. Þrætir nú þó að Hrappur sé þar og bað jarl leita. Jarl hafði
lítið við það og gekk á land og í braut frá öðrum mönnum og var þá
reiður mjög svo að engi maður þorði við hann að mæla.

Jarl mælti: "Vísið mér til Njálssona og skal eg nauðga þeim til að
þeir segi mér hið sanna."

Þá var honum sagt að þeir höfðu út látið.

"Ekki má það þá," segir jarl, "en vatnkeröld tvö voru þar við skipið
Þráins og má þar maður vel hafa fólgist í. Og ef Þráinn hefir fólgið
hann þá mun hann þar í hafa verið og munum vér nú fara í annað sinn
að finna Þráin."

Þráinn sér þetta, að jarl ætlar enn út, og mælti: "Svo reiður sem
jarl var næstum þá mun hann nú vera hálfu reiðari og liggur nú við
líf allra manna þeirra er á skipinu eru ef nokkur segir til Hrapps."

Þeir hétu allir að leyna því að hver var um sig mjög hræddur. Þeir
tóku sekka nokkura úr búlkanum en létu Hrapp koma þar í staðinn. Fóru
nú aðrir sekkar á hann ofan þeir er léttir voru. Nú kemur jarl er
þeir höfðu um Hrapp búið. Þráinn kvaddi vel jarl. Jarl tók kveðju
hans og ekki skjótt. Sáu þeir að jarl var allmjög reiður.

Jarl mælti til Þráins: "Sel þú fram Hrapp því að eg veit víst að þú
hefir fólgið hann."

"Hvar mun eg hafa fólgið hann herra?" segir Þráinn

"Þér mun það kunnigast," segir jarl, "en ef eg skal geta til þá ætla
eg að þú hafir áðan fólgið hann yahí vatnkeröldum þeim er hér voru
við skipið."

> og fagnar honum blíðlega.
> and rejoices in him kindly

"and welcomes him kindly/affectionately", "gives him a friendly/warm
welcome"

> Hann hefir gert oss hvetvetna illt.
> He has performed bad (deeds) to us everywhere.

"He's done us all kinds of ill."  'hvetvetna' = 'hvatvetna',
'hvatvitna' "anything whatsoever, everything".  You were thinking of
'hvarvetna' "everywhere".

> og þóttist eigi vita hvað jarl mundi mest meta.
> and bethought-himself not to know what (the) earl would most value.

MM & HP have "Th. racked his brains, for he could not be sure what the
earl would appreciate most."  But I don't understand why.  Wouldn't it
be obvious what (action) the earl would appreciate most: handing over
Hrapp!  I wonder if it could be interpreted as saying something like
"he couldn't imagine *how* much the earl would value it if he handed
over Hrapp"; that is, he'll be rewarded beyond his wildest imaginings.
  So he's tempted but eventually resists the temptation (hence the
contrastive 'þó' in 'þrætir nú þó að Hrappur sé þar').  Compare
expressions like: 'hvað ertu gamall' "how old are you?"  I'm not sure
though; I might be barking up the wrong tree with that...

> "Ekki má það þá,"
> 'That may not (be) then,'

MM & HP "We cannot do that, then" (i.e. can't go and force them to talk).

> "Þér mun það kunnigast,"
'That will (be) best-known to yourself,

Yes, as if to say: "You should know; you hid him."

> yahí (typo?)

Must be.  Ignore the 'yah'.  Konráð Gíslason and Eiríkur Jónsson's
edition has:

`þjer mun þat kunnigast' segir jarl `enn
ef ek skal geta til, þá ætla ek, at þú hafir
áðan fólgit hann í vatnkeröldum þeim, er hjer
váru við skipit'.

Thanks, Patricia!!!!  Lightening zapped our computer once again creating a
cloud of evil smelling smoke.  Also took out my brother-in-law's phones and
water heater.  Finally back online.

  Þórr mun brennt hafa. Þess get eg að Þórr var þá reiður mjög.
Grace

Eftir það tóku þeir langskip eitt og fóru út til kaupskipsins. Þráinn kennir
ferð jarls og stendur upp og fagnar honum blíðlega.

After that they took one longship and went out to the merchant ship.  Þráinn
recognizes (the) earl's journey and stands up and welcomes him kindly.

Jarl tók því vel og mælti svo: "Manns þess leitum vér er heitir Hrappur og
er íslenskur.

(The) earl received it well and spoke thus, "We search for this man who is
called Hrapp and is an Icelander."

Hann hefir gert oss hvetvetna illt. Viljum vér nú þess biðja yður að þér
seljið hann fram eða segið til hans."

He has done us every kind of evil.  We will now ask this of you that you
hand him over or tell about him."

Þráinn mælti: "Vissuð þér að eg drap útlaga yðvarn herra og hætti þar til
lífi mínu og þá eg fyrir það af yður stórsæmdir."

Þráinn spoke, "You know that I killed your outlaw, lord, and risked my life
at it and I received for it your greatest honour."

"Meiri sæmdir skalt þú nú hafa," segir jarl.

"More honour shall you now have," says (the) earl.

Þráinn hugsaði fyrir sér og þóttist eigi vita hvað jarl mundi mest meta.
Þrætir nú þó að

Þráinn pondered on it and thought not to know what (the) earl would most
value.  Now (he) denies still that

Hrappur sé þar og bað jarl leita. Jarl hafði lítið við það og gekk á land og
í braut frá

Hrapp be there and bade (the) earl search.  (The) earl didn't make much of
it and went ashore and away from

öðrum mönnum og var þá reiður mjög svo að engi maður þorði við hann að mæla.

other people and was then very angry so that no man dared to speak with him.

Jarl mælti: "Vísið mér til Njálssona og skal eg nauðga þeim til að þeir segi
mér hið sanna."

(The) earl spoke, "Direct me to Njall's sons and I shall force them to (it)
that they tell me the truth."

Þá var honum sagt að þeir höfðu út látið.

"Then he was told that they had sailed.

"Ekki má það þá," segir jarl, "en vatnkeröld tvö voru þar við skipið Þráins
og má þar

"Then it may not (be)," says (the) earl, "but two water vessels were there
with Þráin's ship and a man may well

maður vel hafa fólgist í. Og ef Þráinn hefir fólgið hann þá mun hann þar í
hafa verið og

have hidden there in.  And if Þráin has hidden him then he will have been
there inside and

munum vér nú fara í annað sinn að finna Þráin."

we will now go another time to meet Þráin."

Þráinn sér þetta, að jarl ætlar enn út, og mælti: "Svo reiður sem jarl var
næstum þá mun

Þráin sees that, that (the) earl intends still (to come) out and spoke, "So
angry as (the) earl was then next (time) will

hann nú vera hálfu reiðari og liggur nú við líf allra manna þeirra er á
skipinu eru ef

he now be far more angry and now lies on (it the) life of all these men who
are on the ship if

nokkur segir til Hrapps."

anyone tells about Hrapp."

Þeir hétu allir að leyna því að hver var um sig mjög hræddur. Þeir tóku
sekka nokkura úr

They all promised to hide (him) because each was very fearful for himself.
They took some sacks out

búlkanum en létu Hrapp koma þar í staðinn. Fóru nú aðrir sekkar á hann ofan
þeir er léttir

of the cargo and had Hrapp come there in stead.  Now other sacks went down
on him those which were lighter.

voru. Nú kemur jarl er þeir höfðu um Hrapp búið. Þráinn kvaddi vel jarl.
Jarl tók kveðju

Now (the) earl comes when they had prepared concerning Hrapp.  Þráin greeted
(the) earl well.  (The) earl accepted his greetings

hans og ekki skjótt. Sáu þeir að jarl var allmjög reiður.

and not ??.  They saw that (the) earl was very, very angry.

Jarl mælti til Þráins: "Sel þú fram Hrapp því að eg veit víst að þú hefir
fólgið hann."

(The) earl spoke to Þráin, "You give Hrapp up because I know for certain
that you have hidden him."

"Hvar mun eg hafa fólgið hann herra?" segir Þráinn.

"Where will I have hidden him, lord?" says Þráin

"Þér mun það kunnigast," segir jarl, "en ef eg skal geta til þá ætla eg að
þú hafir áðan

"You will know best," says (the) earl, "but if I shall guess about it then I
expect that you have before

fólgið hann í vatnkeröldum þeim er hér voru við skipið."

hidden him in those water barrels which were here with the ship."



Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

"Eigi vildi eg herra," segir Þráinn, "að þér vænduð mig lygi heldur vildi eg
að þér leituðuð um skipið."

Þá fór jarl upp á skipið og leitaði og fann eigi.

Þráinn mælti: "Berið þér mig nú undan herra?"

"Fjarri fer það," segir jarl, "en eigi veit eg hví vér finnum hann eigi. Eg
þykist sjá allt í gegnum þá er eg kem á land en þá sé eg ekki til er eg kem
hér."

Lætur hann þá róa til lands með sig. Hann var svo reiður að ekki mátti við
hann mæla. Sveinn son hans var þar með honum.

Hann mælti: "Undarlegt skaplyndi er það að láta óverða menn gjalda reiði
sinnar."

Jarl gekk þá enn einn frá öðrum mönnum. Síðan gekk hann þegar aftur til
þeirra og mælti. Róum vér enn út til þeirra."

Þeir gerðu svo.

"Hvar mun hann fólginn hafa verið?" segir Sveinn.

Jarl svaraði: "Eigi mun það nú skipta því að hann mun nú í brautu vera
þaðan. Sekkar tveir lágu þar hjá búlkanum og mun Hrappur þar hafa komið í
staðinn þeirra í búlkann."

Þráinn tók til orða: "Fram hrinda þeir enn skipinu og munu enn ætla út
hingað til vor. Skulum vér nú taka hann úr búlkanum og koma öðru í staðinn
en þó skulu sekkarnir lausir."

Þeir gerði svo. Þá mælti Þráinn: "Látum vér Hrapp nú í seglið, það er heflað
upp við rána."

Þeir gera svo. Jarl kemur nú til þeirra.

Var hann þá allreiður og mælti: Vilt þú nú selja fram manninn Þráinn? Og er
nú verra en fyrr."

Þráinn svarar: "Fyrir löngu seldi eg hann fram ef hann væri í minni
varðveislu eða hvar mun hann verið hafa?"

"Í búlkanum," segir jarl.

"Hví leituðuð þér hans eigi þar þá?" segir Þráinn.

"Eigi kom oss það þá í hug," segir jarl.

Síðan leituðu þeir hans um allt skipið og fundu hann eigi.

Þá mælti Þráinn: "Viljið þér mig nú undan bera herra?"

"Víst eigi," segir jarl, "því að eg veit að þú hefir fólgið manninn þó að eg
finni hann eigi. En heldur vil eg að þú níðist á mér en eg á þér."

Fór jarl þá til lands.

"Nú þykist eg sjá," sagði jarl, "hvar Þráinn hefir fólgið Hrapp."

"Eigi vildi eg herra," segir Þráinn, "að þér vænduð mig lygi heldur vildi eg
að þér leituðuð um skipið."

"I do not want, lord," says Þráinn, "that you find fault? with me (because
of) a lie, I would rather that you searched about (the) ship."

Þá fór jarl upp á skipið og leitaði og fann eigi.

Then (the) earl went up on (the) ship and searched and didn't find (anyone).

Þráinn mælti: "Berið þér mig nú undan herra?"

Þráinn spoke, "Now do you acquit me, lord?"

"Fjarri fer það," segir jarl, "en eigi veit eg hví vér finnum hann eigi. Eg
þykist sjá allt í

"Far from it," says (the) earl, "but I don't know why we do not find him.  I
thought to see through everything

gegnum þá er eg kem á land en þá sé eg ekki til er eg kem hér."

then when I came ashore but then I see nothing at all when I come here."

Lætur hann þá róa til lands með sig. Hann var svo reiður að ekki mátti við
hann mæla. Sveinn son hans var þar með honum.

He had them row to shore with him.  He was so angry that none might speak
with him.

Svein, his son, was with him.

Hann mælti: "Undarlegt skaplyndi er það að láta óverða menn gjalda reiði
sinnar."

He spoke, "An extraordinary set of mind it is to allow men to suffer his
rage on account of unworthy (men)."

Jarl gekk þá enn einn frá öðrum mönnum. Síðan gekk hann þegar aftur til
þeirra og mælti.

(The) earl went yet (again) then alone (away) from other men.  Afterwards he
went back at once to them and spoke.

Róum vér enn út til þeirra."

"(Let) us row out to them yet (again)."

Þeir gerðu svo.

They did so.

"Hvar mun hann fólginn hafa verið?" segir Sveinn.

"Where will he have been hidden?" says Svein

Jarl svaraði: "Eigi mun það nú skipta því að hann mun nú í brautu vera
þaðan. Sekkar

(The) earl answered, "It will not now matter because he will now be away
from there.  Two sacks

tveir lágu þar hjá búlkanum og mun Hrappur þar hafa komið í staðinn þeirra í
búlkann."

lay there near the cargo and Hrapp will have come there instead of them into
(the) cargo."

Þráinn tók til orða: "Fram hrinda þeir enn skipinu og munu enn ætla út
hingað til vor.

Þráinn began to speak, "They launch the ship yet (again) and will still
intend (to come) out hither to us.

Skulum vér nú taka hann úr búlkanum og koma öðru í staðinn en þó skulu
sekkarnir lausir."

We shall now take him out of the cargo and other (stuff) come instead but
still shall the empty sacks (remain)."

Þeir gerði svo. Þá mælti Þráinn: "Látum vér Hrapp nú í seglið, það er heflað
upp við rána."

They did so.  Then Þráinn spoke, "Let us (put) Hrapp now into a sail, it is
furled up on ??"

Þeir gera svo. Jarl kemur nú til þeirra.

They did so.  (The) earl comes now to them.

Var hann þá allreiður og mælti: Vilt þú nú selja fram manninn Þráinn? Og er
nú verra en fyrr."

He was then furious and spoke, "Þráinn, do you want to turn over the man?
And now (it) is worse than before."

Þráinn svarar: "Fyrir löngu seldi eg hann fram ef hann væri í minni
varðveislu eða hvar mun hann verið hafa?"

Þráinn answers, "Long ago I (would have) turned him over if he were in my
keeping or where will he have been?"

"Í búlkanum," segir jarl.

"In the cargo," says (the) earl.

"Hví leituðuð þér hans eigi þar þá?" segir Þráinn.

"Then why didn't you search for him there?" says Þráinn

"Eigi kom oss það þá í hug," segir jarl.

"It didn't occur to us then," says (the) earl.

Síðan leituðu þeir hans um allt skipið og fundu hann eigi.

After that they searched for him all over the ship and didn't find him.

Þá mælti Þráinn: "Viljið þér mig nú undan bera herra?"

Then Þráinn spoke, "Now do you acquit me, lord?"

"Víst eigi," segir jarl, "því að eg veit að þú hefir fólgið manninn þó að eg
finni hann eigi.

"Certainly not," says (the) earl, "because I know that you have hidden the
man nevertheless I don't find him.

En heldur vil eg að þú níðist á mér en eg á þér."

And I want rather that you behave in a dastardly way to me than I to you."

Fór jarl þá til lands.

(The) earl sailed then to land.

"Nú þykist eg sjá," sagði jarl, "hvar Þráinn hefir fólgið Hrapp."

"Now I think to see," said (the) earl, "where Þráinn has hidden Hrapp."



Grace

Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

Both Alan and Patricia have sorted these pasages out that I messed up.

"Eigi vildi (past subj) eg herra," segir Þráinn, "að þér vænduð mig lygi
(væna e-n e-u, Z3, cites this example) heldur vildi eg
'I would not want, Lord,' says Þráin, 'that you charged me of a
falsehood; rather I would-want

að þér leituðuð um skipið."
that you searched through (examined) the ship.


Hann mælti: "Undarlegt skaplyndi er það að láta óverða (úverðr, Z2 =
guiltless, cites this example) menn gjalda reiði sinnar."
He spoke: 'An extraordinary disposition is that, to permit guiltless men
to suffer on-account-of one's anger.'

Grace
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa