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#9414 From: "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Tue Jul 1, 2008 12:47 pm
Subject: Greenlander's Saga end Ch1 and begin ch2 Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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Þeir spyrja þá ef Bjarni vildi að landi láta þar en hann kvaðst eigi það vilja "því að mér líst þetta land ógagnvænlegt."
They asked of Bjarni if he would make land (a landing there) but he declared he did not want to "for it seems to me to be unprofitable"
 
Nú lögðu þeir eigi segl sitt, halda með landinu fram og sáu að það var eyland,
Now, (i.e.this time) they did not lay (?lower) their sail, but they held to the land (followed the shore) and they saw it was an Island
 
settu enn stafn við því landi og héldu í haf hinn sama byr.
They turned their stern to the land and sailed to sea on that same breeze
 
En veður óx í hönd og bað Bjarni þá svipta og eigi sigla meira en bæði dygði vel skipi þeirra og reiða, sigldu nú fjögur dægur.
But then the weather turned against them (í hönd G)and Bjarni told themto reef the sail, and not further/more sail than both the ship (?)could take (I am certain this is a Health and Safety thing but I do not get dygði) they sailed for four days
 
Þá sáu þeir land hið fjórða. Þá spurðu þeir Bjarna hvort hann ætlaði þetta vera Grænland eða eigi.
Then they saw the fourth land. Then they asked Bjarni if he thought it was Greenland or not
 
Bjarni svarar: "Þetta er líkast því er mér er sagt frá Grænlandi og hér munum vér að landi halda."
Bjarni replied "This is most like what was told to me of Greenland and here we steer to land" (CHEERS!)
 
Svo gera þeir og taka land undir einhverju nesi að kveldi dags og var þar bátur á nesinu.
Thus they do and land below a point/Ness in the evening and there was a boat (moored) at the ness
 
En þar bjó Herjúlfur faðir Bjarna á því nesi og af því hefir
nesið nafn tekið og er síðan kallað Herjúlfsnes
And there lived Herjolf Bjarni's Father at that point from whom it has it's name and is since (ever after) called Herjolf's Ness.
 
Fór Bjarni nú til föður síns og hættir nú siglingu og er með föður sínum meðan Herjúlfur lifði.
Bjarni now went to his Father, and ceased sailing now and he is with his father while Herjolf lived.
 
Og síðan bjó hann þar eftir föður sinn.
And afterwards he lived there after his father
[I believe this signifies that he kept his fathers style of life and occupied - i.e. Took Over the Farm]
 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
2.
Það er nú þessu næst að Bjarni Herjúlfsson kom utan af Grænlandi á fund Eiríks jarls og tók jarl við honum vel.
That is now next to tell, that Bjarni Herjolfsson came abroad from Greenland to meet Earl Eirik (who was King hereafter ?) and the Earl received him well
 
Sagði Bjarni frá ferðum sínum er hann hafði lönd séð
Bjarni told of his Journey and he had seen (other) lands 
 
og þótti mönnum hann verið hafa óforvitinn er hann hafði
ekki að segja af þeim löndum og fékk hann af því nokkuð ámæli.
and people thought him to have been incurious (?) (lacking interest) when he had nothing to tell of those lands and he was criticised/reproached for that
 
Bjarni gerðist hirðmaður jarls og fór út til Grænlands um sumarið eftir. 
Bjarni became a follower of the Earl and sailed to Greenland the summer after
 
Var nú mikil umræða um landaleitan.
Now much was discussed of explorations.
 
Leifur son Eiríks rauða úr Brattahlíð fór á fund Bjarna Herjúlfssonar og keypti skip að honum
Leif the son of Eirik the Red of Brattahlið went to see Bjarni Herjolfsson and bought a ship from him [from him I believe because Bjarni had given up sailing and would not need it]
 
og réð til háseta svo að þeir voru hálfur fjórði tugur
manna saman. Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
and hired a crew of 35 (Z) men all together. Leif asked his Father Eirik if he would want to be on the Journey [ to lead the journey I think he wants Eirik to be in charge]
 
I could not find one or two words in the dictionary and I tried to see the notes - but could not find dygði - there was dyðg but that was given as Good or Virtuous IIRC.
Any Critique Welcome

#9415 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: Greenlander's Saga end Ch1 and begin ch2 Patricia's Translation
llama_nom
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> og eigi sigla meira en bæði dygði vel skipi þeirra og reiða

> and not further/more sail than both the ship (?)could take (I am
certain this is a Health and Safety thing but I do not get dygði)

'dygði' is the past 3rd person singular subjunctive of 'duga' "to
serve/perform well, to work, be adequate, etc."

http://iceland.spurl.net/tunga/VO/leit.php?q=duga

#9416 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Tue Jul 1, 2008 3:37 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greenlander's Saga end Ch1 and begin ch2 Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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Why Thank you LN - I had no Idea -
Kveðja
Patricia 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: llama_nom
Date: 01/07/2008 16:12:04
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Greenlander's Saga end Ch1 and begin ch2 Patricia's Translation
 
> og eigi sigla meira en bæði dygði vel skipi þeirra og reiða
 
> and not further/more sail than both the ship (?)could take (I am
certain this is a Health and Safety thing but I do not get dygði)
 
'dygði' is the past 3rd person singular subjunctive of 'duga' "to
serve/perform well, to work, be adequate, etc."
 
 
 
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#9417 From: Jack Leigh <leighman@...>
Date: Wed Jul 2, 2008 7:16 pm
Subject: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
leighmanrules
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Hi guys,

I've been stalking this group for ages but only now feel I have the language level to actually join in.
Hope that's okay.

Þeir spyrja þá ef Bjarni vildi að landi láta þar en hann kvaðst eigi það vilja
Then they asked if Bjarni wanted to allow a landing there but he said that he did not want that
"því að mér líst þetta land ógagnvænlegt."
"because this land seems unprofitable to me."
Nú lögðu þeir eigi segl sitt, halda með landinu fram og sáu að það var eyland,
Now they did not lower their sail, they keep following the land in front and saw that it was an island
settu enn stafn við því landi og héldu í haf hinn sama byr. En veður
they set the prow in to the land and held the same wind into the sea.  But storms
óx í hönd og bað Bjarni þá svipta og eigi sigla meira en
grew in that place? and Bjarni then told them to lessen the sail and not to sail more than
bæði dygði vel skipi þeirra og reiða, sigldu nú fjögur dægur.
(at the point where) both their ship and rigging could easily perform well, following this they sailed for four days.
Þá sáu þeir land hið fjórða. Þá spurðu þeir Bjarna hvort hann ætlaði þetta
Then they saw the fourth land.  Then they asked Bjarni whether he thought this
vera Grænland eða eigi.
was Greenland or not.
Bjarni svarar: "Þetta er líkast því er mér er sagt frá Grænlandi og hér
Bjarnis says: 'This is like what is related to me about Greenland and here
munum vér að landi halda."
we will steer to the land."
Svo gera þeir og taka land undir einhverju nesi að kveldi dags og var þar bátur á nesinu.
They do so and make landfall at the foot of a certain point at evening-time and there was a boat in the point.
En þar bjó Herjúlfur faðir Bjarna á því nesi og af því
And there lived Herjulfr, Bjarni's father, on that point and because of this
hefir nesið nafn tekið og er síðan kallað Herjúlfsnes. Fór Bjarni nú til föður síns
the point has received his name and is therefore called Herjulf's Point.  Bjarni went now to his father's
og hættir nú siglingu og er með föður sínum meðan Herjúlfur lifði.
and now stops sailing and is with his father while he (Herjulfr) lives.
Og síðan bjó hann þar eftir föður sinn.
And then he lived there after his father.

----------------------------------------------

2.
Það er nú þessu næst að Bjarni Herjúlfsson kom utan af Grænlandi á fund
The next thing is that Bjarni, Herjulf's son, came abroad from Greenland into the presence
Eiríks jarls og tók jarl við honum vel. Sagði Bjarni frá ferðum sínum er
Earl Eirikr and the earl took him in well.  Bjarni told about his voyage when
hann hafði lönd séð og þótti mönnum hann verið hafa óforvitinn er hann hafði
he had seen land and he seemed to the men to have been insufficiently adventurous when he had
ekki að segja af þeim löndum og fékk hann af því nokkuð ámæli.
nothing to say about those lands and he recieved some criticism for it.
Bjarni gerðist hirðmaður jarls og fór út til Grænlands um sumarið eftir.
Bjarni became a follower of the earl and he went out to Greenland roughly the following summer.
Var nú mikil umræða um landaleitan.
There was now much talk about exploration.

Leifur son Eiríks rauða úr Brattahlíð fór á fund Bjarna Herjúlfssonar
Leifr, son of Eirik the red, from Brattahlíð went into the presence of Bjarni
og keypti skip að honum og réð til háseta svo að þeir voru hálfur fjórði tugur
and bought a ship for himself? and decided on oarsmen so there were 35
manna saman. Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
men altogether. Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

Thanks,
Jack

#9418 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Wed Jul 2, 2008 8:59 pm
Subject: Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
originalpatr...
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Looking Good Jack
I think the Transaction between Leif and Bjarni was for Leir Eirilsson to buy the ship that Bjarni did not need - after all he had been said to have given up going about the Waters and had gone to live with his Father
Looks good to me
Kveðja
Patricia
Your contribution is welcome  - another member of the team 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 02/07/2008 21:39:12
Subject: [norse_course] Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
 
Hi guys,

I've been stalking this group for ages but only now feel I have the language level to actually join in.
Hope that's okay.

Þeir spyrja þá ef Bjarni vildi að landi láta þar en hann kvaðst eigi það vilja
Then they asked if Bjarni wanted to allow a landing there but he said that he did not want that
"því að mér líst þetta land ógagnvænlegt."
"because this land seems unprofitable to me."
Nú lögðu þeir eigi segl sitt, halda með landinu fram og sáu að það var eyland,
Now they did not lower their sail, they keep following the land in front and saw that it was an island
settu enn stafn við því landi og héldu í haf hinn sama byr. En veður
they set the prow in to the land and held the same wind into the sea.  But storms
óx í hönd og bað Bjarni þá svipta og eigi sigla meira en
grew in that place? and Bjarni then told them to lessen the sail and not to sail more than
bæði dygði vel skipi þeirra og reiða, sigldu nú fjögur dægur.
(at the point where) both their ship and rigging could easily perform well, following this they sailed for four days.
Þá sáu þeir land hið fjórða. Þá spurðu þeir Bjarna hvort hann ætlaði þetta
Then they saw the fourth land.  Then they asked Bjarni whether he thought this
vera Grænland eða eigi.
was Greenland or not.
Bjarni svarar: "Þetta er líkast því er mér er sagt frá Grænlandi og hér
Bjarnis says: 'This is like what is related to me about Greenland and here
munum vér að landi halda."
we will steer to the land."
Svo gera þeir og taka land undir einhverju nesi að kveldi dags og var þar bátur á nesinu.
They do so and make landfall at the foot of a certain point at evening-time and there was a boat in the point.
En þar bjó Herjúlfur faðir Bjarna á því nesi og af því
And there lived Herjulfr, Bjarni's father, on that point and because of this
hefir nesið nafn tekið og er síðan kallað Herjúlfsnes. Fór Bjarni nú til föður síns
the point has received his name and is therefore called Herjulf's Point.  Bjarni went now to his father's
og hættir nú siglingu og er með föður sínum meðan Herjúlfur lifði.
and now stops sailing and is with his father while he (Herjulfr) lives.
Og síðan bjó hann þar eftir föður sinn.
And then he lived there after his father.

----------------------------------------------

2.
Það er nú þessu næst að Bjarni Herjúlfsson kom utan af Grænlandi á fund
The next thing is that Bjarni, Herjulf's son, came abroad from Greenland into the presence
Eiríks jarls og tók jarl við honum vel. Sagði Bjarni frá ferðum sínum er
Earl Eirikr and the earl took him in well.  Bjarni told about his voyage when
hann hafði lönd séð og þótti mönnum hann verið hafa óforvitinn er hann hafði
he had seen land and he seemed to the men to have been insufficiently adventurous when he had
ekki að segja af þeim löndum og fékk hann af því nokkuð ámæli.
nothing to say about those lands and he recieved some criticism for it.
Bjarni gerðist hirðmaður jarls og fór út til Grænlands um sumarið eftir.
Bjarni became a follower of the earl and he went out to Greenland roughly the following summer.
Var nú mikil umræða um landaleitan.
There was now much talk about exploration.

Leifur son Eiríks rauða úr Brattahlíð fór á fund Bjarna Herjúlfssonar
Leifr, son of Eirik the red, from Brattahlíð went into the presence of Bjarni
og keypti skip að honum og réð til háseta svo að þeir voru hálfur fjórði tugur
and bought a ship for himself? and decided on oarsmen so there were 35
manna saman. Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
men altogether. Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

Thanks,
Jack
 

#9419 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 10:52 am
Subject: Greenland 2 part 2
fredgrace
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Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst minna
mega við vosi öllu en var. Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra
af þeim frændum. Og þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir
eru að því búnir og var þá skammt að fara til skipsins. Drepur hesturinn
fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.

Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er nú
byggjum vér. Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."

Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með
honum, hálfur fjóði tugur manna. Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir
hét.

Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og fundu þá
það land fyrst er þeir Bjarni fundu síðast. Þar sigla þeir að landi og
köstuðu akkerum og skutu báti og fóru á land og sáu þar eigi gras. Jöklar
miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein hella væri allt til jöklanna frá sjónum
og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.

Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér
höfum eigi komið á landið. Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."

Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað,
sigla enn að landi og kasta akkerum, skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið.
Það land var slétt og skógi vaxið og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og
ósæbratt.

Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."

Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.

Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir
sáu land og sigldu að landi og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og
gengu þar upp og sáust um í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og
varð þeim það fyrir að þeir tóku höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér
og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt hafa sem það var.
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9420 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 1:35 pm
Subject: Greenland 2 part 2 - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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There were a couple of words I couldn't find.

Grace

Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst minna
mega við

Eric spoke rather quietly?, said of himself then to be advanced in age and
said of himself to be able to recall with

vosi öllu en var. Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra af þeim
frændum. Og

??? all which was (happened).  Leif said he still would (be the) most lucky
captain of those kinsmen.  And

þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir eru að því búnir og
var þá skammt

Eric agreed to this from Leif and rides home then when they are at (making)
ready and then was scarcely

að fara til skipsins. Drepur hesturinn fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll
hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.

underway to the ship.  The horse stumbled, that which Eric rode, and he fell
off and injured his foot.

Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er nú
byggjum vér.

Then Eric spoke, "(It) will not be intended for me to find more land than
that which we now settle.

Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."

We will now no longer go all together."

Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með
honum, hálfur

Eric went home to Brattahlid and Leif removed to (the) ship, his company
with him, 35

fjóði tugur manna. Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir hét.

men.  There was one Saxon on the journey who was called Tyrkir.

Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og fundu þá
það land fyrst er

Now they prepared their ship and sail onto (the) sea when they were ready
and found then that land first which

þeir Bjarni fundu síðast. Þar sigla þeir að landi og köstuðu akkerum og
skutu báti og fóru

they, Bjarni (and company) found latest.  There they sailed to (the) land
and cast anchor and launched a boat and went

á land og sáu þar eigi gras. Jöklar miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein
hella væri allt til

ashore and saw there no grass.  Great glaciers were all over? the flat
stones and as one flat stone were all (the way) to

jöklanna frá sjónum og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.

the glaciers from the sea and (it) seemed to them that land to be barren.

Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér
höfum eigi

Then Leif spoke, "It is not to us happened concerning this land as Bjarni
that we have not

komið á landið. Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."

come ashore.  Now I will give a name to the land and call (it) Helluland."

Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað,
sigla enn að landi

Afterwards they went to (the) ship.  After that they sail to sea and found
another land, sail yet (again) to land

og kasta akkerum, skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið. Það land var slétt og
skógi vaxið

and cast the anchor, launch a boat afterwards and go ashore.  That land was
flat and grown with forest

og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og ósæbratt.

and wide white sand there where they went and not steep toward the sea.

Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."

Then Leif spoke, "From (its) condition(I) shall give this land a name and
call (it) Markland."

Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.

Afterwards they went down back to (the) ship as quickly as possible.

Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir
sáu land og Now they sail from there to sea on a northeast wind and were out
two days before they saw land and



sigldu að landi og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og gengu þar upp
og sáust um

sailed to land and came to an island which lay north of the (main)land and
(they) went up there and looked around



í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og varð þeim það fyrir að
þeir tóku

in good weather and found it that dew was on the grass and it happened for
them that they took



höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt
hafa sem það var.

their hands in the dew and brought it to their mouths and thought not to
have known equal as that was.
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9421 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 5:26 pm
Subject: Welcome, Jack!
fredgrace
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We are very please to have you translating with us!!!
Grace

Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9422 From: "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Jul 4, 2008 12:49 pm
Subject: Greenland 2 part 2 Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst minna mega við vosi öllu en var.
Eric spoke on the contrary (CV III) declared for himself to be getting on in years (of advanced age) and declared that he could call to minD being able to remember all that was.
(having once had a good memory)
 
Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra
af þeim frændum.
Leif announced he was still the most fortunate captain in the family (of his kinfolk) 
 
Og þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir
eru að því búnir
And Eric agrees to this and rides from home -(heiman) while they are making ready (to go) 
 
og var þá skammt að fara til skipsins. Drepur hesturinn
fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.
and it was (only) a short way to get to the ship. The Horse lost his footing (the one which) which Eric was riding and he fell from off it's back and injured his foot.
 
Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er núbyggjum vér.
Then spoke Eric " "It is not meant for me to find land more than that which we now farm" 
 
Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."
"This will mean - no longer do we travel together"
 
Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með honum, hálfur fjóði tugur manna.
Eric goes home to Brattahlið and Leif removed to the ship with his troop, 35 men.
 
 Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir
hét.
There was a certain Southern-Man (probably Saxon/German) on the journey named Tyrkir.
 
Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og fundu þá það land fyrst er þeir Bjarni fundu síðast.
Now they made ready/prepared their ship and sailed out to sea when they were (quite) ready and found the land first, which Bjarni had last (most recently?) found
 
 Þar sigla þeir að landi og
köstuðu akkerum og skutu báti og fóru á land og sáu þar eigi gras.
They sailed to the land cast anchor and cast anchor launched a boat and went ashore and saw no grass there.
 
Jöklar miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein hella væri allt til jöklanna frá sjónum og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.
Great glaciers covered it (the land) and seemed as one stone flat from the glaciers to the sea, and the land looked to be barren
 
Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér höfum eigi komið á landið.
Then spoke Leif " It has not happened with this land the 
(the same) as Bjarni, that he had not (even) come ashore"
[i.e. - we did at least TRY Bjarni did not] 
 
Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."
"now I give a name to this land and call it Helluland"
 
Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað, sigla enn að landi og kasta akkerum,
Afterwards they went back to the ship and after that they sail to sea and  find another land sail yet (as before) and cast anchor.
 
skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið.
Það land var slétt og skógi vaxið og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og ósæbratt.
Launch then a boat and go then ashore - that land was flat and grown with Forest and broad white sand where they walked and not steep down to the sea
 
Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."
Then said Leif "From choice shall this land be given a name and I call it Markland [very original - forestland]
 
Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.
After this they went back to the ship as quickly possible. [ASAP]
 
Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir sáu land og sigldu að landi
Now they sail out to sea on a northeast wind and were at see two days ere they saw land, and sailed up to the land 
 
og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og
gengu þar upp og sáust
and came to an island which was to the North of the land and they went up sand saw for themselves
 
um í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og
varð þeim það fyrir að þeir tóku höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt hafa sem það var
it was in good weather and found dew on the grass and it it happened that they  took up the dew in their hands and brought it to their mouths and thought not to have known it's like (it's equal)
 
This has taken longer than usual - my Engineer called and had some "fixins" for it so I had to save it to a file - and then when he had gone - I had trouble opening it again
[plus ça change]
Any Critique Welcome
Kveðja
Patricia

#9423 From: Jack Leigh <leighman@...>
Date: Fri Jul 4, 2008 4:33 pm
Subject: Greenland 2 part 2 - Jack's translation
leighmanrules
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Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst
Eirikr said that he'd rather avoid it?, he then says that he is bowed by age and says that he
minna mega við vosi öllu en var. Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra
is less able to cope with all hardship than he was.  Leifr says that he will still be the most fortunate captain
af þeim frændum. Og þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir
of his kinsmen.  And from this Eirik gave way to Leifr and rides from home when they
eru að því búnir og var þá skammt að fara til skipsins.
are prepared for it and was then a short distance to go to the ship.
Drepur hesturinn fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.
The horse, which Eirikr rode stumples and he fell of the back and injured his foot.
Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er
Then Eirikr says, 'it is not intended that I should find more lands than that which
nú byggjum vér. Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."
we now live in.  We will now no longer all travel together.'
Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með honum, hálfur fjóði tugur manna.
Eirikr went home in Brattahlíð but Leifr moved on to the ship, his crew with him, 35 men.
Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir hét.
There was one Saxon on the voyage who was called Tyrkir.
Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og
Now they prepared their ship and sailed into the sea when they were ready and
fundu þá það land fyrst er þeir Bjarni fundu síðast. Þar sigla þeir að landi og
then first found that land which Bjarni and his men found last.  There they sailed to land and
köstuðu akkerum og skutu báti og fóru á land og sáu þar eigi gras.
cast anchor and launched a boat and went ashore and saw no grass there.
Jöklar miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein hella væri allt til jöklanna frá sjónum
Large glaciers covered the top as if one flat slab were all the way to the glaciers from the sea
og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.
and that land appeared to them to be barren.
Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér
Then Leifr said: 'With this land it has not happened for us, as for Bjarni, that we
höfum eigi komið á landið. Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."
that we have not come ashore.  Now I will gave a name to the land and call it Helluland'.
Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað,
Then they went to the ship.  After this they sailed to sea and found another land,
sigla enn að landi og kasta akkerum, skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið.
they sail to land again and drop anchor, then launch a boat and go ashore.
Það land var slétt og skógi vaxið og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og ósæbratt.
This land was flat and covered by forest and white sands as widely as they went and not steep to the sea.
Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."
Then Leifr said: 'From it's condition I shall give this land a name and call it Markland'.
Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.
Then they went down to the ship at once.
Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir
Now they sail out to sea on a north-east wind and were at sea two days before they
sáu land og sigldu að landi og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og
saw land and sailed to land and came to an island which lay north of the land and
gengu þar upp og sáust um í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og
they went up there and looked around in good weather and found that dew was in the grass and
varð þeim það fyrir að þeir tóku höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér
it happened that they put their hands in the dew and brought it into their mouths
og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt hafa sem það var.
and thought they had not known the same level (of tastiness :D) as that was.

Cheers,
Jack

#9424 From: Jack Leigh <leighman@...>
Date: Sat Jul 5, 2008 10:58 am
Subject: Re: Welcome, Jack!
leighmanrules
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Thanks guys :D
I'll try and keep up as much as possible :P

Fred and Grace Hatton wrote:

We are very please to have you translating with us!!!
Grace

Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa


#9425 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Sun Jul 6, 2008 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
llama_nom
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Excellent work, Jack, and welcome aboard!

> halda með landinu fram
> they keep following the land in front

'fram' here is an adverb indicating motion, the direction they're
going in: they carry on forwards along the coast.

> settu enn stafn við því landi
> they set the prow in to the land

'enn' "again", rather than 'inn' "in".
'við' "against".

> En veður óx í hönd
> But storms grew in that place?

"But the wind grew higher and higher." (Idiomatic.)

> when he had nothing to say about those lands
> er hann hafði ekki að segja af þeim löndum

'er' can mean "when", but can also introduce a clause that gives the
reason for something, or an explanation of the circumstances, so
annother way of translating it might be: "as he had nothing to say
about those lands", or something like that.

> um sumarið eftir
> roughly the following summer

Leave out "roughly". The 'um', in this sentence, is just part of the
idiom: 'um sumariðp eftir' "the following summer".

> og keypti skip að honum
> and bought a ship for himself?

"and bought a ship from him" (See Zoega 'at' definition number IV.8.)
  If he'd been buying the ship from himself(!), it would need the
reflexive pronoun 'sér' in place of 'honum' (which can't refer back to
the subject of the sentence).

> réð til háseta
> and decided on oarsmen

"hired oarsmen for [a voyage]" (See Zoega 'ráða' 7; 'til' 4).

> Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
> Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

"[...] that he should be in command of the voyage again." (As he had
been in command of the voyage to Greenland?)

But well done! You seem to have a good understanding of the grammar.

#9426 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Sun Jul 6, 2008 7:21 pm
Subject: Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - Jack's translation (taldist heldur undan)
llama_nom
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> Eiríkur taldist heldur undan,
> Eirikr said that he'd rather avoid it?,

That's right.

#9427 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 5:17 am
Subject: Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
llama_nom
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You all seemed to get through that without major problems, the main exception being that one little bit in the first paragraph that threw Grace and Patricia. Here's my go, along with a few notes that should hopefully clear up the confusing bits. Let me know if there's anything else any of you are still unsure of.

> Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst minna
> mega við vosi öllu en var. Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra
> af þeim frændum. Og þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir
> eru að því búnir og var þá skammt að fara til skipsins. Drepur hesturinn
> fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.

Eiríkr said he'd rather not. He declares himself to be advanced in years then and says he's less able [to cope] with the hardship of bad weather than he used to be. Leifr says he'd [most likely] still be the luckiest captain out of his kinsmen. And Eiríkr granted him this [request] and he rides from home when they're ready for that, and it wasn't far then to go to the ship. The horse that Eiríkr was riding stumbles, and he fell from [its] back and his foot was/is injured.

vosi = vás, n. "toil, hardship from bad weather".

minna "less".

stýra, wv. 1. "to steet, govern".

hniginn (í aldur) "advanced in years", lit. "sunk into age", "declined into age"; past participle of hníga, sv. I. "to sink gently, decline".

 
> Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er nú
> byggjum vér. Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."

Then said Eiríkr: "It must not be meant [i.e. fated] for me to discover more lands than this [one] which we now inhabit. We will not go on further together now.
 
> Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með
> honum, hálfur fjóði tugur manna. Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir
> hét.

Eiríkr went home to Brattahlíð, but Leifr and his comrades went to the ship, 35 men. There was was southerner [a German/Saxon] there on the voyage who was called Tyrkir.

> Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og fundu þá
> það land fyrst er þeir Bjarni fundu síðast. Þar sigla þeir að landi og
> köstuðu akkerum og skutu báti og fóru á land og sáu þar eigi gras. Jöklar
> miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein hella væri allt til jöklanna frá sjónum
> og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.

Now they readied their ship and sailed to sea when they were ready and found then first the land which Bjarni had found last. They sail to the land [the coast] there and cast anchor and launched the boat and went ashore and saw there no grass. There were great glaciers all over the higher ground [inland it was all great glaciers], and it was like a slab of rock all the way from the sea to the glaciers, and that land seemed barren to them.

efra is the neuter nom.sg. form of of efri = øfri
,  "higher" (that o has a diagonal line through it, although it might not show up very well in this font...)

> Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér
> höfum eigi komið á landið. Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."

Then Leifr said: "It has not befallen us with [regard to] this land that we haven't come ashore, as [it befell] Bjarni. Now I will give the land a name and call [it] Helluland [Slabland]."

e-m verða, sv. III. "it befalls one, one happens to"

> Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað,
> sigla enn að landi og kasta akkerum, skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið.
> Það land var slétt og skógi vaxið og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og
> ósæbratt.

Then they went to their ship. After this, they sail out to sea and found another land, sail towards the land again and cast anchor, launch the boat then, and go ashore. That land was flat and overgrown with forest, and [there were] white sands widely/extensively [to be seen] where they went, sloping gently to the sea.

> Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."

Then Leifr said: "This land will get a name from its resources [its advantages, its (good) qualities], and called Markland [Forestland]."

> Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.

They went back down to their ship then as quickly as they could.

> Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir
> sáu land og sigldu að landi og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og
> gengu þar upp og sáust um í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og
> varð þeim það fyrir að þeir tóku höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér
> og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt hafa sem það var.

Now they sail out to sea from there on a northeasterly [wind] and were out [at sea] for two days before they saw land, and [they] sailed towards the land, and came to an island which lay to the north of the land, and went ashore there and looked around in good weather and found that there was dew on the grass and they happened to take hold of the dew in their hands and lifted/scooped it [quickly] into their mouths and they didn't think they'd ever tasted anything as sweet as that was.

#9428 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 6:34 am
Subject: Re: Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
originalpatr...
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THis makes sense LN - to see your translation  - and in "Glorious Technicolor"  
There have been occasions when I find it less than actually easy to relate corrections
to the text - but set forth like this it actually comes together
I am troubled to define - advanced in years - how the Vikings saw this we seem
now to live longer  I am wondering what may have been the life-span of the
average Viking if there were such a person.
I  saw that bit in Grace's and mine - we both stumbled over the vosi - and when
I have my next cup of coffee I am going to my CV and see what I can find,, my
problem is looking up a word - and if I find "something similar" I rationalize just a bit -
not always wise.
Thanks again LN I have a Print-Out
Kveðja
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: llama_nom
Date: 07/07/2008 06:17:52
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
 

You all seemed to get through that without major problems, the main exception being that one little bit in the first paragraph that threw Grace and Patricia. Here's my go, along with a few notes that should hopefully clear up the confusing bits. Let me know if there's anything else any of you are still unsure of.

> Eiríkur taldist heldur undan, kveðst þá vera hniginn í aldur og kveðst minna
> mega við vosi öllu en var. Leifur kveður hann enn mundu mestri heill stýra
> af þeim frændum. Og þetta lét Eiríkur eftir Leifi og ríður heiman þá er þeir
> eru að því búnir og var þá skammt að fara til skipsins. Drepur hesturinn
> fæti, sá er Eiríkur reið, og féll hann af baki og lestist fótur hans.

Eiríkr said he'd rather not. He declares himself to be advanced in years then and says he's less able [to cope] with the hardship of bad weather than he used to be. Leifr says he'd [most likely] still be the luckiest captain out of his kinsmen. And Eiríkr granted him this [request] and he rides from home when they're ready for that, and it wasn't far then to go to the ship. The horse that Eiríkr was riding stumbles, and he fell from [its] back and his foot was/is injured.

vosi = vás, n. "toil, hardship from bad weather".

minna "less".

stýra, wv. 1. "to steet, govern".

hniginn (í aldur) "advanced in years", lit. "sunk into age", "declined into age"; past participle of hníga, sv. I. "to sink gently, decline".

 
> Þá mælti Eiríkur "Ekki mun mér ætlað að finna lönd fleiri en þetta er nú
> byggjum vér. Munum vér nú ekki lengur fara allir samt."

Then said Eiríkr: "It must not be meant [i.e. fated] for me to discover more lands than this [one] which we now inhabit. We will not go on further together now.
 
> Fór Eiríkur heim í Brattahlíð en Leifur réðst til skips og félagar hans með
> honum, hálfur fjóði tugur manna. Þar var suðurmaður einn í ferð er Tyrkir
> hét.

Eiríkr went home to Brattahlíð, but Leifr and his comrades went to the ship, 35 men. There was was southerner [a German/Saxon] there on the voyage who was called Tyrkir.

> Nú bjuggu þeir skip sitt og sigldu í haf þá er þeir voru búnir og fundu þá
> það land fyrst er þeir Bjarni fundu síðast. Þar sigla þeir að landi og
> köstuðu akkerum og skutu báti og fóru á land og sáu þar eigi gras. Jöklar
> miklir voru allt hið efra en sem ein hella væri allt til jöklanna frá sjónum
> og sýndist þeim það land vera gæðalaust.

Now they readied their ship and sailed to sea when they were ready and found then first the land which Bjarni had found last. They sail to the land [the coast] there and cast anchor and launched the boat and went ashore and saw there no grass. There were great glaciers all over the higher ground [inland it was all great glaciers], and it was like a slab of rock all the way from the sea to the glaciers, and that land seemed barren to them.

efra is the neuter nom.sg. form of of efri = øfri
,  "higher" (that o has a diagonal line through it, although it might not show up very well in this font...)

> Þá mælti Leifur: "Eigi er oss nú það orðið um þetta land sem Bjarna að vér
> höfum eigi komið á landið. Nú mun eg gefa nafn landinu og kalla Helluland."

Then Leifr said: "It has not befallen us with [regard to] this land that we haven't come ashore, as [it befell] Bjarni. Now I will give the land a name and call [it] Helluland [Slabland]."

e-m verða, sv. III. "it befalls one, one happens to"

> Síðan fóru þeir til skips. Eftir þetta sigla þeir í haf og fundu land annað,
> sigla enn að landi og kasta akkerum, skjóta síðan báti og ganga á landið.
> Það land var slétt og skógi vaxið og sandar hvítir víða þar sem þeir fóru og
> ósæbratt.

Then they went to their ship. After this, they sail out to sea and found another land, sail towards the land again and cast anchor, launch the boat then, and go ashore. That land was flat and overgrown with forest, and [there were] white sands widely/extensively [to be seen] where they went, sloping gently to the sea.

> Þá mælti Leifur: "Af kostum skal þessu landi nafn gefa og kalla Markland."

Then Leifr said: "This land will get a name from its resources [its advantages, its (good) qualities], and called Markland [Forestland]."

> Fóru síðan ofan aftur til skips sem fljótast.

They went back down to their ship then as quickly as they could.

> Nú sigla þeir þaðan í haf landnyrðingsveður og voru úti tvö dægur áður þeir
> sáu land og sigldu að landi og komu að ey einni er lá norður af landinu og
> gengu þar upp og sáust um í góðu veðri og fundu það að dögg var á grasinu og
> varð þeim það fyrir að þeir tóku höndum sínum í döggina og brugðu í munn sér
> og þóttust ekki jafnsætt kennt hafa sem það var.

Now they sail out to sea from there on a northeasterly [wind] and were out [at sea] for two days before they saw land, and [they] sailed towards the land, and came to an island which lay to the north of the land, and went ashore there and looked around in good weather and found that there was dew on the grass and they happened to take hold of the dew in their hands and lifted/scooped it [quickly] into their mouths and they didn't think they'd ever tasted anything as sweet as that was.
 

#9429 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 10:23 am
Subject: Greenland 2 end
fredgrace
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Síðan fóru þeir til skips síns og sigldu í sund það er lá milli eyjarinnar
og ness þess er norður gekk af landinu, stefndu í vesturátt fyrir nesið. Þar
var grunnsævi mikið að fjöru sjóvar og stóð þá uppi skip þeirra og var þá
langt til sjóvar að sjá frá skipinu.

En þeim var svo mikil forvitni á að fara til landsins að þeir nenntu eigi
þess að bíða að sjór félli undir skip þeirra og runnu til lands þar er á ein
féll úr vatni einu. En þegar sjór féll undir skip þeirra þá tóku þeir bátinn
og réru til skipsins og fluttu það upp í ána, síðan í vatnið og köstuðu þar
akkerum og báru af skipi húðföt sín og gerðu þar búðir, tóku það ráð síðan
að búast þar um þann vetur og gerðu þar hús mikil.

Hvorki skorti þar lax í ánni né í vatninu og stærra lax en þeir hefðu fyrr
séð.

Þar var svo góður landskostur, að því er þeim sýndist, að þar mundi engi
fénaður fóður þurfa á vetrum. Þar komu engi frost á vetrum og lítt rénuðu
þar grös. Meira var þar jafndægri en á Grænlandi eða Íslandi. Sól hafði þar
eyktarstað og dagmálastað um skammdegi.

En er þeir höfðu lokið húsgerð sinni þá mælti Leifur við föruneyti sitt: "Nú
vil eg skipta láta liði voru í tvo staði og vil eg kanna láta landið og skal
helmingur liðs vera við skála heima en annar helmingur skal kanna landið og
fara eigi lengra en þeir komi heim að kveldi og skiljist eigi."

Nú gerðu þeir svo um stund. Leifur gerði ýmist, að hann fór með þeim eða var
heima að skála.

Leifur var mikill maður og sterkur, manna skörulegastur að sjá, vitur maður
og góður hófsmaður um alla hluti.
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9430 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 11:09 am
Subject: Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
llama_nom
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi, Patricia,

Glad to be of help. Oh, I just realised, I missed out "all" from my
translation.

'við vosi öllu'
"with all the hardship from bad weather"

This is the dative singular of 'vos' = 'vás'. I've no idea what data
there might be on lifespans. One thing to watch out for with mean
lifespan statistics is that where a population suffers from high
infant mortality, the figures can give a misleading (and overly
pessimistic) impression of how long *someone who survived infancy*
could expect to live. So if you read that, say, life expectancy in a
given era was 30, it's worth checking what exactly is being estimated.

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing saga-age ideas of what counted as
"aged" weren't vastly different from our own, even if not so many
people made it that far...

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patti (Wilson)"
<originalpatricia@...> wrote:
>
> THis makes sense LN - to see your translation  - and in "Glorious
> Technicolor"
> There have been occasions when I find it less than actually easy to
relate
> corrections
> to the text - but set forth like this it actually comes together
> I am troubled to define - advanced in years - how the Vikings saw
this we
> seem
> now to live longer  I am wondering what may have been the life-span
of the
> average Viking if there were such a person.
> I  saw that bit in Grace's and mine - we both stumbled over the vosi
- and
> when
> I have my next cup of coffee I am going to my CV and see what I can
find,,
> my
> problem is looking up a word - and if I find "something similar" I
> rationalize just a bit -
> not always wise.
> Thanks again LN I have a Print-Out
> Kveðja
> Patricia

#9431 From: "Pattti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 11:22 am
Subject: Re: Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
Well that makes me quite old-ish for a Viking - I approach the next assignment with considerable enthusiasm
** puts her sword down - beside the axe - sets the pot on the hearth fire
and takes up quill **
Kvedja
Patricia 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: llama_nom
Date: 07/07/2008 12:09:13
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Greenland 2 part 2 - a translation + notes
 
Hi, Patricia,
 
Glad to be of help. Oh, I just realised, I missed out "all" from my
translation.
 
'við vosi öllu'
"with all the hardship from bad weather"
 
This is the dative singular of 'vos' = 'vás'. I've no idea what data
there might be on lifespans. One thing to watch out for with mean
lifespan statistics is that where a population suffers from high
infant mortality, the figures can give a misleading (and overly
pessimistic) impression of how long *someone who survived infancy*
could expect to live. So if you read that, say, life expectancy in a
given era was 30, it's worth checking what exactly is being estimated.
 
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing saga-age ideas of what counted as
"aged" weren't vastly different from our own, even if not so many
people made it that far...
 
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patti (Wilson)"
<originalpatricia@...> wrote:
>
> THis makes sense LN - to see your translation  - and in "Glorious
> Technicolor"
> There have been occasions when I find it less than actually easy to
relate
> corrections
> to the text - but set forth like this it actually comes together
> I am troubled to define - advanced in years - how the Vikings saw
this we
> seem
> now to live longer  I am wondering what may have been the life-span
of the
> average Viking if there were such a person.
> I  saw that bit in Grace's and mine - we both stumbled over the vosi
- and
> when
> I have my next cup of coffee I am going to my CV and see what I can
find,,
> my
> problem is looking up a word - and if I find "something similar" I
> rationalize just a bit -
> not always wise.
> Thanks again LN I have a Print-Out
> Kveðja
> Patricia
 
 
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#9432 From: Jack Leigh <leighman@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 1:52 pm
Subject: Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
leighmanrules
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks for your help.
I tend to use mainly the glossary for the 'New Introduction to Old Norse' and occasionally the online Zoega.
Do you think it's worth getting hold of a copy of Zoega?  Is it still about?
I'm likely to be doing ON for two more years so I think it might be worthwhile.
Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

llama_nom wrote:


Excellent work, Jack, and welcome aboard!

> halda með landinu fram
> they keep following the land in front

'fram' here is an adverb indicating motion, the direction they're
going in: they carry on forwards along the coast.

> settu enn stafn við því landi
> they set the prow in to the land

'enn' "again", rather than 'inn' "in".
'við' "against".

> En veður óx í hönd
> But storms grew in that place?

"But the wind grew higher and higher." (Idiomatic.)

> when he had nothing to say about those lands
> er hann hafði ekki að segja af þeim löndum

'er' can mean "when", but can also introduce a clause that gives the
reason for something, or an explanation of the circumstances, so
annother way of translating it might be: "as he had nothing to say
about those lands", or something like that.

> um sumarið eftir
> roughly the following summer

Leave out "roughly". The 'um', in this sentence, is just part of the
idiom: 'um sumariðp eftir' "the following summer".

> og keypti skip að honum
> and bought a ship for himself?

"and bought a ship from him" (See Zoega 'at' definition number IV.8.)
If he'd been buying the ship from himself(!), it would need the
reflexive pronoun 'sér' in place of 'honum' (which can't refer back to
the subject of the sentence).

> réð til háseta
> and decided on oarsmen

"hired oarsmen for [a voyage]" (See Zoega 'ráða' 7; 'til' 4).

> Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
> Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

"[...] that he should be in command of the voyage again." (As he had
been in command of the voyage to Greenland?)

But well done! You seem to have a good understanding of the grammar.


-- Leighman | 'And, if rain brings winds of change, let it rain on us forever.'

#9433 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 1:58 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
Please Jack let me add my two pence - English Currency of course - I believe I got mine as recently as 2003 From Amazon.co.uk  and if you are in the states Amazon.com will get it for you
Bless
Patricia 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 07/07/2008 14:52:56
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
 
Thanks for your help.
I tend to use mainly the glossary for the 'New Introduction to Old Norse' and occasionally the online Zoega.
Do you think it's worth getting hold of a copy of Zoega?  Is it still about?
I'm likely to be doing ON for two more years so I think it might be worthwhile.
Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

llama_nom wrote:


Excellent work, Jack, and welcome aboard!

> halda með landinu fram
> they keep following the land in front

'fram' here is an adverb indicating motion, the direction they're
going in: they carry on forwards along the coast.

> settu enn stafn við því landi
> they set the prow in to the land

'enn' "again", rather than 'inn' "in".
'við' "against".

> En veður óx í hönd
> But storms grew in that place?

"But the wind grew higher and higher." (Idiomatic.)

> when he had nothing to say about those lands
> er hann hafði ekki að segja af þeim löndum

'er' can mean "when", but can also introduce a clause that gives the
reason for something, or an explanation of the circumstances, so
annother way of translating it might be: "as he had nothing to say
about those lands", or something like that.

> um sumarið eftir
> roughly the following summer

Leave out "roughly". The 'um', in this sentence, is just part of the
idiom: 'um sumariðp eftir' "the following summer".

> og keypti skip að honum
> and bought a ship for himself?

"and bought a ship from him" (See Zoega 'at' definition number IV.8.)
If he'd been buying the ship from himself(!), it would need the
reflexive pronoun 'sér' in place of 'honum' (which can't refer back to
the subject of the sentence).

> réð til háseta
> and decided on oarsmen

"hired oarsmen for [a voyage]" (See Zoega 'ráða' 7; 'til' 4).

> Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
> Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

"[...] that he should be in command of the voyage again." (As he had
been in command of the voyage to Greenland?)

But well done! You seem to have a good understanding of the grammar.


-- Leighman | 'And, if rain brings winds of change, let it rain on us forever.'
 

#9434 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
originalpatr...
Send Email Send Email
 
 
They have it in the Amazon UK
hoping to have helped
Patricia
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 07/07/2008 14:52:56
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Greenland 1 end + beginning 2 - Jack's translation
 
Thanks for your help.
I tend to use mainly the glossary for the 'New Introduction to Old Norse' and occasionally the online Zoega.
Do you think it's worth getting hold of a copy of Zoega?  Is it still about?
I'm likely to be doing ON for two more years so I think it might be worthwhile.
Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

llama_nom wrote:


Excellent work, Jack, and welcome aboard!

> halda með landinu fram
> they keep following the land in front

'fram' here is an adverb indicating motion, the direction they're
going in: they carry on forwards along the coast.

> settu enn stafn við því landi
> they set the prow in to the land

'enn' "again", rather than 'inn' "in".
'við' "against".

> En veður óx í hönd
> But storms grew in that place?

"But the wind grew higher and higher." (Idiomatic.)

> when he had nothing to say about those lands
> er hann hafði ekki að segja af þeim löndum

'er' can mean "when", but can also introduce a clause that gives the
reason for something, or an explanation of the circumstances, so
annother way of translating it might be: "as he had nothing to say
about those lands", or something like that.

> um sumarið eftir
> roughly the following summer

Leave out "roughly". The 'um', in this sentence, is just part of the
idiom: 'um sumariðp eftir' "the following summer".

> og keypti skip að honum
> and bought a ship for himself?

"and bought a ship from him" (See Zoega 'at' definition number IV.8.)
If he'd been buying the ship from himself(!), it would need the
reflexive pronoun 'sér' in place of 'honum' (which can't refer back to
the subject of the sentence).

> réð til háseta
> and decided on oarsmen

"hired oarsmen for [a voyage]" (See Zoega 'ráða' 7; 'til' 4).

> Leifur bað föður sinn Eirík að hann mundi enn fyrir vera förinni.
> Leifr bade his father Eirik to still come on the voyage?

"[...] that he should be in command of the voyage again." (As he had
been in command of the voyage to Greenland?)

But well done! You seem to have a good understanding of the grammar.


-- Leighman | 'And, if rain brings winds of change, let it rain on us forever.'
 

#9435 From: "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:42 pm
Subject: GreenlandSaga Ch2 to end Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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Síðan fóru þeir til skips síns og sigldu í sund það er lá milli eyjarinnar og ness þess er norður gekk af landinu, stefndu í vesturátt fyrir nesið.
Afterwards they went (back) to their ship and sailed into the Straits (sund-Z) between the Island and the Ness (headland) which went  (pointed?) Northwards from the land, they steered/turned (went round?) the Headland and went westwards
 
Þar var grunnsævi mikið að fjöru sjóvar og stóð þá uppi skip þeirra og var þá langt til sjóvar að sjá frá skipinu.
There were great areas of shallows (fjöri-4 cardinal points) i.e. in all directions and so stood the ship up (stranded) and it was far (so it seemed) to see the sea from the ship
 
En þeim var svo mikil forvitni á að fara til landsins að þeir nenntu eigi þess að bíða að sjór félli undir skip þeirra
And to them it was so great (their) curiosity to get to the land (nenne - unwilling) they were unwilling to wait until the sea-tide got under their ship [they went paddling]
 
og runnu til lands þar er á ein féll úr vatni einu.
and they ran ashore to there where was (einu - one) a fell  (hill) and water (lake? or River)
 
En þegar sjór féll undir skip þeirra þá tóku þeir bátinn
og réru til skipsins og fluttu það upp í ána, síðan í vatnið og köstuðu þar akkerum
When the sea (tide) re-floated their ship they took a boat and moved it up (into) the river, and then to the lake where they cast Anchor
 
og báru af skipi húðföt sín og gerðu þar búðir, tóku það ráð síðan
að búast þar um þann vetur og gerðu þar hús mikil.
and they carried from off the ship their sleeping sacks and built booths/shelters there, later they took to (decided) a plan to prepare for themselves to (spend) Winter and build a large house
 
Hvorki skorti þar lax í ánni né í vatninu og stærra lax en þeir hefðu fyrr séð.
There was not a lack of Salmon in the River and (they were) stouter/bigger than they had seen before.
 
Þar var svo góður landskostur, að því er þeim sýndist, að þar mundi engi fénaður fóður þurfa á vetrum.
There the quality of land (landskostur) was so good that it looked to them that the livestock/cattle would not seen fodder stored for the Winter
 
Þar komu engi frost á vetrum og lítt rénuðu þar grös.
There came  no frost in the winter and light loss/withering  (only)
of the grass 
 
 
Meira var þar jafndægri en á Grænlandi eða Íslandi. Sól hafði þar
eyktarstað og dagmálastað um skammdegi.
[much help from CV] More even were the length of days there than in Greenland or Iceland. The Sun was there on the short(est) day from early mass until half-past three (CV)
[I imagine they had no trouble sorting out their Digital Watches - Alan - where are you now]
 
En er þeir höfðu lokið húsgerð sinni þá mælti Leifur við föruneyti sitt: "Nú vil eg skipta láta liði voru í tvo staði og vil eg kanna láta landið og skal helmingur liðs vera við skála heima en annar helmingur skal kanna landið og fara eigi lengra en þeir komi heim að kveldi og skiljist eigi."
When they had built/finished their housing, then Leif spoke with his companions -
"Now  I want to divide our troop into two groups and I want to explore this land - half  shall remain by the houses at home when the other half shall study/explore the land - they (at home) shall not go further then they (are able) to return by evening and they shall not separate of themselves.  [whew]
 
Nú gerðu þeir svo um stund. Leifur gerði ýmist, að hann for með þeim eða var heima að skála.
This they did for a time, Leif went along sometimes or (sometimes) stayed at home by the houses
 
Leifur var mikill maður og sterkur, manna skörulegastur að sjá, vitur maður og góður hófsmaður um alla hluti
Leif was a great (large) man, and strong of most imposing appearance (Z) and a good moderate man in all things
 
This seemed easier - I found - the reading of it not so difficult and that accounts for some of the longer paragraphs and dividing it up differently - so I could read it better
Kveðja
Patricia
 

#9436 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 5:29 pm
Subject: Greenland 2 end - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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Well this is interesting.  Apparently sjór félli  could mean the tide ebbed
or rose.

Grace



Síðan fóru þeir til skips síns og sigldu í sund það er lá milli eyjarinnar
og ness þess er

Afterwards they went to their ship and sailed into that sound which lay
between the island and that headland which

norður gekk af landinu, stefndu í vesturátt fyrir nesið. Þar var grunnsævi
mikið að fjöru

went north from the land, went in the direction of the west quarter before
(the) headland.  There was much shallow water at  (the) beach?

sjóvar og stóð þá uppi skip þeirra og var þá langt til sjóvar að sjá frá
skipinu.

of (the) sea and (the shallows) brought up their ship and then (it) was a
long way to (the) sea to see from the ship.

En þeim var svo mikil forvitni á að fara til landsins að þeir nenntu eigi
þess að bíða að

And to them was so much curiosity about (it) to go to the land that they
were not willing (regarding) this to wait until

sjór félli undir skip þeirra og runnu til lands þar er á ein féll úr vatni
einu. En þegar sjór

the tide rose* under their ship and ran to land there where a river fell out
of a certain lake?  And as soon as the sea

féll undir skip þeirra þá tóku þeir bátinn og réru til skipsins og fluttu
það upp í ána, síðan

rose under their ship, then they took the boat and rowed to the ship and
conveyed it up into the river,  afterwards

í vatnið og köstuðu þar akkerum og báru af skipi húðföt sín og gerðu þar
búðir, tóku það

into the lake and cast anchor there and carried from the ship their hammocks
and made there booths, made it a plan

ráð síðan að búast þar um þann vetur og gerðu þar hús mikil.

afterwards to live there during that winter and made a great house there.

Hvorki skorti þar lax í ánni né í vatninu og stærra lax en þeir hefðu fyrr
séð.

Neither in short supply there were salmon in the river nor in the lake and
bigger salmon than they had seen before.

Þar var svo góður landskostur, að því er þeim sýndist, að þar mundi engi
fénaður fóður

There were such good conditions in the land, that which seemed to them, that
there would be no need for fodder for livestock

þurfa á vetrum. Þar komu engi frost á vetrum og lítt rénuðu þar grös. Meira
var þar

in winter.  There came no frost in winter and grass diminished little there
( barely stopped growing).  Day length was better there than

jafndægri en á Grænlandi eða Íslandi. Sól hafði þar eyktarstað og
dagmálastað um skammdegi.

(either) in Greenland or Iceland.  (The) sun had set there at half past
three and risen at nine during the short days.

En er þeir höfðu lokið húsgerð sinni þá mælti Leifur við föruneyti sitt: "Nú
vil eg skipta

And when they had finished their house-making, then Leif spoke with his
fellow travelers, "Now I want to

láta liði voru í tvo staði og vil eg kanna láta landið og skal helmingur
liðs vera við skála

have our crew divide into two parts and I want to allow to explore the land
and half of (the) crew shall be with the huts at

heima en annar helmingur skal kanna landið og fara eigi lengra en þeir komi
heim að kveldi og skiljist eigi."

home and (the) other half shall explore (the) land and go no further than
(that) the come home in (the) evening and  not be separated."

Nú gerðu þeir svo um stund. Leifur gerði ýmist, að hann fór með þeim eða var
heima að skála.

Now they did so for a while.  Leif alternately did (so) that he went with
them or was at home at (the) huts.

Leifur var mikill maður og sterkur, manna skörulegastur að sjá, vitur maður
og góður hófsmaður um alla hluti.

Leif was a large and powerful man, of men the most imposing to see, a wise
man and a good (and) temperate man concerning everything.

Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9437 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:30 am
Subject: Greenland 3
fredgrace
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3.
Á einhverju kveldi bar það til tíðinda að manns var vant af liði þeirra og
var það Tyrkir suðurmaður. Leifur kunni því stórilla því að Tyrkir hafði
lengi verið með þeim feðgum og elskað mjög Leif í barnæsku. Taldi Leifur nú
mjög á hendur förunautum sínum og bjóst til ferðar að leita hans og tólf
menn með honum.

En er þeir voru skammt komnir frá skála þá gekk Tyrkir í mót þeim og var
honum vel fagnað.

Leifur fann það brátt að fóstra hans var skapgott. Hann var brattleitur og
lauseygur, smáskitlegur í andliti, lítill vexti og vesallegur en
íþróttamaður á alls konar hagleik.

Þá mælti Leifur til hans: "Hví varstu svo seinn fóstri minn og fráskili
föruneytinu?"

Hann talaði þá fyrst lengi á þýsku og skaut marga vega augunum og gretti
sig. En þeir skildu eigi hvað er hann sagði.

Hann mælti þá á norrænu er stund leið: "Eg var genginn eigi miklu lengra en
þið. Kann eg nokkur nýnæmi að að segja. Eg fann vínvið og vínber."

"Mun það satt fóstri minn?" kvað Leifur.

"Að vísu er það satt," kvað hann, "því að eg var þar fæddur er hvorki skorti
vínvið né vínber."

Nú sváfu þeir af þá nótt en um morguninn mælti Leifur við háseta sína: "Nú
skal hafa tvennar sýslur fram og skal sinn dag hvort, lesa vínber eða höggva
vínvið og fella mörkina svo að það verði farmur til skips míns."

Og þetta var ráðs tekið.

Svo er sagt að eftirbátur þeirra var fylltur af vínberjum.

Nú var hogginn farmur á skipið.

Og er vorar þá bjuggust þeir og sigldu burt og gaf Leifur nafn landinu eftir
landkostum og kallaði Vínland, sigla nú síðan í haf og gaf þeim vel byri þar
til er þeir sáu Grænland og fjöll undir jöklum.

Þá tók einn maður til máls og mælti við Leif: "Hví stýrir þú svo mjög undir
veður skipinu?"

Leifur svaraði: "Eg hygg að stjórn minni en þó enn að fleira. Eða hvað sjáið
þér til tíðinda?"
Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9438 From: Jack Leigh <leighman@...>
Date: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:45 pm
Subject: Greenland 2 end -Jack's trans
leighmanrules
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Hiya, sorry it's a bit late :O

Síðan fóru þeir til skips síns og sigldu í sund það er lá milli eyjarinnar
Then they went to their ship and sailed into the channel which lay between the island
og ness þess er norður gekk af landinu, stefndu í vesturátt fyrir nesið.
and the headland which jutted north from the land, they aimed along the west side of the headland.
Þar var grunnsævi mikið að fjöru sjóvar og stóð þá uppi skip þeirra
There was a large area of shallow water at low tide? and it then jammed up their ship
og var þá langt til sjóvar að sjá frá skipinu.
and it was then a long way to see to the sea from the ship.
En þeim var svo mikil forvitni á að fara til landsins að þeir nenntu eigi
But they had so much curiosity to go to the land that they were not willing
þess að bíða að sjór félli undir skip þeirra og runnu til lands þar er á ein
to wait until the the sea rose under their ship and ran to land at the place where a river
féll úr vatni einu. En þegar sjór féll undir skip þeirra þá tóku þeir bátinn
flowed from a lake.  And as soon as the sea rose under their ship then they took the boat
og réru til skipsins og fluttu það upp í ána, síðan í vatnið og köstuðu þar akkerum
and rowed to the ship and transported it up into the river, then into the lake and dropped anchor there
og báru af skipi húðföt sín og gerðu þar búðir, tóku það ráð síðan
and they carried their sleeping sacks off the ship and built shelters there, they then took the descision
að búast þar um þann vetur og gerðu þar hús mikil.
to prepare for winter there and they built large houses.
Hvorki skorti þar lax í ánni né í vatninu og stærra lax en þeir hefðu fyrr séð.
There was no lack of salmon there, either in the river nor lake and larger salmon than they had seen before.
Þar var svo góður landskostur, að því er þeim sýndist, að þar mundi
There the quality of land was so good that it looked to them that there would be
engi fénaður fóður þurfa á vetrum. Þar komu engi frost á vetrum og lítt rénuðu þar grös.
no need for cattle fodder in the winter.  There was no frost in the winter and the grass only withered slightly.
Meira var þar jafndægri en á Grænlandi eða Íslandi. Sól hafði þar
There was more length of day than in Greenland or Iceland.  The sun there had
eyktarstað og dagmálastað um skammdegi.
set at 3pm and risen at 9am on the shortest days.
En er þeir höfðu lokið húsgerð sinni þá mælti Leifur við föruneyti sitt: "Nú
And when they have finished their house-building then Leifr said to his companions: 'Now
vil eg skipta láta liði voru í tvo staði og vil eg kanna láta landið og
I want to let the company divide to be in two groups [can't really work the grammar of this bit] and I want to allow the land to be explored and
skal helmingur liðs vera við skála heima en annar helmingur skal kanna landið og
half of the people will be with the buildings at home and the other half will explore the land and
fara eigi lengra en þeir komi heim að kveldi og skiljist eigi."
go no further than (that place where) they can return home by evening and not separate.'
Nú gerðu þeir svo um stund. Leifur gerði ýmist, að hann fór með þeim eða var heima að skála.
Now they did thus for some time.  Leifr, in turn, went with them or was at home at the buildings.
Leifur var mikill maður og sterkur, manna skörulegastur að sjá, vitur maður
Leifr was a large and strong man, splendid to see, a wise man
og góður hófsmaður um alla hluti.
and a good reasonable man about all matters.

I actually though this was harder =D Seemed more technical or something.

Cheers,
Jack

-- Leighman | 'And, if rain brings winds of change, let it rain on us forever.'

#9439 From: "Fred and Grace Hatton" <hatton@...>
Date: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:39 pm
Subject: Greenland 3 beginning - - Grace's translation
fredgrace
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I had a couple of questions, but it seems to be going pretty well.  I wasn't
sure what the sailor is getting at towards the end of the passage.
Grace
3.
Á einhverju kveldi bar það til tíðinda að manns var vant af liði þeirra og
var það Tyrkir

On a certain evening it happened regarding tidings that a man of their
company was missing and it was Tyrkir, (the) Saxon.



  suðurmaður. Leifur kunni því stórilla því að Tyrkir hafði lengi verið með
þeim feðgum

Leif was very displeased because Tyrkir had been with them, father and son,
for a long time



og elskað mjög Leif í barnæsku. Taldi Leifur nú mjög á hendur förunautum
sínum og

and loved Leif very much in childhood.  Leif reproached his fellow travelers
much (I wasn't sure whether hendur was from handa the verb or meant at the
hands of)



bjóst til ferðar að leita hans og tólf menn með honum.

and prepared to journey to seek him and twelve men with him.

En er þeir voru skammt komnir frá skála þá gekk Tyrkir í mót þeim og var
honum vel fagnað.

And when they were scarcely come from (the) huts, then Tyrkir walked towards
them and he was well received.

Leifur fann það brátt að fóstra hans var skapgott. Hann var brattleitur og
lauseygur,

Leif quickly found that his foster-father was in  good natured.  He had a
projecting forehead and unsteady eyes

  smáskitlegur í andliti, lítill vexti og vesallegur en íþróttamaður á alls
konar hagleik.

insignificant of face, short statured and wretched looking but a skillful
man in all kinds of handicraft.

Þá mælti Leifur til hans: "Hví varstu svo seinn fóstri minn og fráskili
föruneytinu?"

Then Leif spoke to him, "Why were you so late, my foster-father and
separated from the company?"

Hann talaði þá fyrst lengi á þýsku og skaut marga vega augunum og gretti
sig. En þeir

He spoke then first a long time in German and cast (his) eyes in many
directions and frowned.  But they

skildu eigi hvað er hann sagði.

did not understand what he said.

Hann mælti þá á norrænu er stund leið: "Eg var genginn eigi miklu lengra en
þið. Kann

Then he spoke in Norse after a while?,  "I was not gone much longer than
you.  I know

eg nokkur nýnæmi að að segja. Eg fann vínvið og vínber."

some news to tell of (it).  I found grape vines and grapes."

"Mun það satt fóstri minn?" kvað Leifur.

"Will it (be) true, my foster-father?" said Leif.

"Að vísu er það satt," kvað hann, "því að eg var þar fæddur er hvorki skorti
vínvið né vínber."

"Certainly it is true," said he, "because I was there eating where neither
is lacking grapevines nor grapes."

Nú sváfu þeir af þá nótt en um morguninn mælti Leifur við háseta sína: "Nú
skal hafa

Now they slept the night from then and during the morning Leif spoke with
his crew, "Now two kinds of work shall proceed

tvennar sýslur fram og skal sinn dag hvort, lesa vínber eða höggva vínvið og
fella

and shall by day betimes either gather grapes or cut grapevines or fell

mörkina svo að það verði farmur til skips míns."

the forest so that it becomes cargo for my ship."

Og þetta var ráðs tekið.

And this plan was taken up.

Svo er sagt að eftirbátur þeirra var fylltur af vínberjum.

So is said that their ship's boat was filled with grapes.

Nú var hogginn farmur á skipið.

Now was hewn cargo for the ship.

Og er vorar þá bjuggust þeir og sigldu burt og gaf Leifur nafn landinu eftir
landkostum og

And then when spring came they readied themselves and sailed away and Leif
gave a name to the land for its qualities and

kallaði Vínland, sigla nú síðan í haf og gaf þeim vel byri þar til er þeir
sáu Grænland og fjöll undir jöklum.

called (it) Vineland, (they) sail now afterwards to sea and on a good breeze
until when they saw Greenland and a mountain under (the) glacier

Þá tók einn maður til máls og mælti við Leif: "Hví stýrir þú svo mjög undir
veður skipinu?"

Then one man took to speaking and spoke with Leif, "Why do you steer the
ship so much under (the) wind?"

Leifur svaraði: "Eg hygg að stjórn minni en þó enn að fleira. Eða hvað sjáið
þér til tíðinda?"

Leif answered, "I keep to my helm but still to more.  Or what say you as to
tidings?"

Fred and Grace Hatton
Hawley Pa

#9440 From: "Patti (Wilson)" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:28 pm
Subject: Assignment #3 of the Greenlanders Saga
originalpatr...
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I did not get a copy - and I tried sending one to myself - with no result
 
How could I get one - can someone send it to my email - off list ???
 
Kveðja
Patricia

#9441 From: "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
Date: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:30 am
Subject: Greenlanders Saga #3 Patricia's Translation
originalpatr...
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3.
Á einhverju kveldi bar það til tíðinda að manns var vant af liði
þeirra og var það Tyrkir suðurmaður.
It was one certain evening that brought news (tidings) that one man was missing from their company and it was Tyrkir the Southerner
 
Leifur kunni því stórilla því að Tyrkir hafði lengi verið með þeim feðgum og elskað mjög Leif í barnæsku.
Leif learned this very badly [(stórilla)he was upset)] for Tyrkir had been a long time with them father and son (with Leif and his father Eric) and greatly loved Leif from his childhood
 
Taldi Leifur nú mjög á hendur förunautum sínum og bjóst til ferðar að leita hans og tólf  menn með honum.
Leif greatly reproached the hands (actions ?) of his followers and prepared to go seek him, taking twelve men with him
 
En er þeir voru skammt komnir frá skála þá gekk Tyrkir í mót þeim og var honum vel fagnað.
And they were come but a short way from the Houses when Tyrkir walked to meet them and they welcomed him well (gladly)
 
Leifur fann það brátt að fóstra hans var skapgott. Hann var
brattleitur og lauseygur, smáskitlegur í andliti, lítill vexti og vesallegur en íþróttamaður á alls konar hagleik.
Leif found at once that his fosterfather was (skapgott -G in good spirits) in good spirits - happy. He had a heavy/projecting forhead and roving eyes, small in the face (?small featured) - but little grown and ill favoured (G) but a skilled man at all kinds of handcrafts
 
Þá mælti Leifur til hans: "Hví varstu svo seinn fóstri minn og fráskili
föruneytinu?"
Then spoke Leif to him "Why were you thus slow (?late) my fosterfather and separated from our company"
 
Hann talaði þá fyrst lengi á þýsku og skaut marga vega augunum og gretti sig. En þeir skildu eigi hvað er hann sagði.
He spoke at first for a long time in the German language (G) and with his eyes ?(in all directions) They understood not what he was saying.
 
Hann mælti þá á norrænu er stund leið: "Eg var genginn eigi miklu
lengra en þið. Kann eg nokkur nýnæmi að að segja. Eg fann vínvið og vínber."
He spoke then in Norse after a time "I had gone along not much further than you (yourself). I know some news to tell you, I found vines and grapes"
 
"Mun það satt fóstri minn?" kvað Leifur.
"Can this be true my fosterfather" asks Leif
 
"Að vísu er það satt," kvað hann, "því að eg var þar fæddur er hvorki
skorti vínvið né vínber."
" Sure it is true" says he " because where I was born there was no lack of vines and grapes" [knows what he is talking about]
 
Nú sváfu þeir af þá nótt en um morguninn mælti Leifur við háseta sína:
"Nú skal hafa tvennar sýslur fram og skal sinn dag hvort, lesa vínber eða höggva vínvið og fella mörkina svo að það verði farmur til skips míns."
Now they slept that night and in the morning Leif spoke  to his crew
"Now we shall have work of two kinds (G) to goand shall one day take (pick) grapes (lit. wine berries) and cut vines and another day  fell (chop down) forest and so make a load for my ship
 
Og þetta var ráðs tekið.
And this was the plan they took
 
Svo er sagt að eftirbátur þeirra var fylltur af vínberjum.
So it is said that their ship's boat (lit.afterboat - well it was dragged along behind?) was full of grapes
 
Nú var hogginn farmur á skipið.
Then they cut/chopped a load of wood for the ship
 
Og er vorar þá bjuggust þeir og sigldu burt og gaf Leifur nafn landinu
eftir landkostum og kallaði Vínland,
And when it was spring they made themselves ready and sailed away, and Leif named the land after it's natural features and called it Vinland
 
sigla nú síðan í haf og gaf þeim vel byri þar
til er þeir sáu Grænland og fjöll undir jöklum.
They sail now afterwards out to sea and with a good breeze they  saw Greenland and the hills and glaciers
 
Þá tók einn maður til máls og mælti við Leif: "Hví stýrir þú svo mjög
undir veður skipinu?"
Then one of the men spoke out (lit took to speech) and asked Leif  "Why do you steer the ship so close to the wind"
 
Leifur svaraði: "Eg hygg að stjórn minni en þó enn að fleira. Eða hvað
sjáið þér til tíðinda?"
Leif replied "I keep to my course but still to more/other things - and what do you see - of note?"
(sjáið þér til tiðinða?) I saw this as - Leif was like
("I am watching my steering - but do you not see - anything else - worth mentioning/reporting)
 
I found a heap of new words here and made full use of my dictionaries
Not dissatisfied with it but not happy either - Critique welcome
Kveðja
Patricia

#9446 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:33 am
Subject: Dictionaries and other online resources
llama_nom
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> I tend to use mainly the glossary for the 'New Introduction to Old
Norse' and occasionally the online Zoega.
> Do you think it's worth getting hold of a copy of Zoega?  Is it
still about?
> I'm likely to be doing ON for two more years so I think it might be
worthwhile.
> Any recommendations?

This online version of Zoega [ http://norse.ulver.com/ondict/zoega/ ]
has everything that's in my hardcopy (preface, paradigms and lists of
"irregular" forms). His dictionary was based on the bigger
Cleasby/Vigfússon [
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/germanic/oi_cleasbyvigfusson_about.html#imag\
es
]. Johann Fritzner's Ordbog over Det gamle norske Sprog (2nd. ed.
1886–96) doesn't have as many words as CV, but can still be useful for
comparing definitions, and for the examples of usage [
http://www.dok.hf.uio.no/perl/search/search.cgi?appid=86&tabid=1275 ].

For dictionaries of poetic language, see here [
http://www.septentrionalia.net/index.php ], especially Sveinbjörn
Egilsson and Finnur Jónsson, eds. Lexicon poeticum antiquæ linguæ
septentrionalis: ordbog over det norsk-islandske skjaldesprog. 2nd ed.
Copenhagen: Møller, 1931. I see that a PDF of Meissner's Kenningar der
Skalden has recently been added to the site; Septentrinalia gets
better all the time! Other important online poetry resources are
Eysteinn Björnsson's Jormungrund site [
http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/ ] and Skaldic Poetry of the
Scandinavian Middel Ages [ http://www.skaldic.arts.usyd.edu.au/ ].

There's also some older dictionaries on Google books, namely Lexicon
Poeticum Antiquae Linguae Septentrionalis (Sveinbjörn Egilsson, 1860)
[ http://www.google.co.uk/books?id=RAwGAAAAQAAJ&printsec=titlepage ]
and  Lexicon Islandico-Latino-Danicum (Björn Halldórsson, 1814) [
http://books.google.com/books?id=4xUGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PR1 ].

Where dictionaries of Old Norse are unclear, it can sometimes help to
consult a dictionary of Modern Icelandic: Icelandic Online Dictionary
(Sverrir Hólmarsson, J Tucker, C Sanders) [
http://libtext.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/IcelOnline/IcelOnline.TEId-idx?id=IcelOn\
line.IEOrd
]. There's another one here which requires subscription [
http://www.ordabok.is ].


For examples of usage, the Orðabók Háskólans has a couple of handy
databases. You can search selectively in medieval texts in the
Textasafn [ http://www.lexis.hi.is/corpus/leit.pl ], or look in the
Ritmálsskrá for examples from later Icelandic.

For Old Danish, there's Otto Kalkar's Ordbog til det ældre danske
sprog (1300-1700) [ http://www.hist.uib.no/kalkar/ ], and for Old
Swedish, K.F. Söderwall's Ordbok öfver Svenska Medeltids-språket and
C.J. Schlyter's Ordbok till Samlingen af Sweriges Gamla Lagar, both
searchable here [ http://spraakdata.gu.se/sdw/ ].

More links here [ http://www.oe.eclipse.co.uk/nom/norselinks.htm ] and
in the links section of the Norse Course yahoo group website.

#9447 From: "llama_nom" <600cell@...>
Date: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:46 am
Subject: Re: Greenland 2 end
llama_nom
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> Grace wrote: "Well this is interesting.  Apparently sjór félli
could mean the tide ebbed or rose."

When the subject is water, rivers, etc., it often makes sense to
translate 'falla' as "flow".

Patricia queried: Hvorki skorti þar lax í ánni né í vatninu

You got the right idea, "Neither was there a lack of salmon in the
river nor in the lake". The modern spelling 'hvorki' = ON normalisd
spelling 'hvár(t)ki'. And 'hvorki ... né' = "neither ... nor".

> að því er þeim sýndist

"as it seemed/looked/appeared to them"

The other bits you underlined look fine to me, Patricia, but 'fjöru'
is the dative of 'fjara' "ebb" (also means "shore", the part of the
land that's covered by the tide) - nothing to do with the four
cardinal points, as far as I know. And 'þar er á ein féll úr vatni
einu' = "where a river flowed out from a lake". "á' = "river". 'féll',
= 3rd person singular preterite of 'falla' "to fall; flow (of water).
You were thinking of 'fjall' "hill, mountain, fell".

> Nú vil eg skipta láta liði voru í tvo staði og vil eg kanna láta landið

Jack wrote: "Now I want to let the company divide to be in two groups
[can't really work the grammar of this bit] and I want to allow the
land to be explored"

'láta' often means to have something done, or cause something to be
done, or have something done on one's orders (rather than just
passively allow/let it be done), so you could translate it fairly
literally as "I want (to have) the company divided in two and I want
(to have) the land explored".

All the verbs here are infinitives except for 'vil'.

'skipta e-u í tvo staði' "to divide something into two"
'skipta láta' = 'láta skipta' "to have (i.e. cause/order to be) divided"

'kanna landið' "to explore the land"
'kanna láta' = 'láta kanna' "to have (i.e. cause/order to be) explored".

Both word orders are possible in Old Norse, so it's the same as
saying: [nú vil eg [láta [skipta liði voru]]] "now I want our company
divided/dividing" and [og vil eg [láta [kanna landið]]] "and I want
the land explored/exploring".

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