Wayne,

Either go to Yahoo Groups an unsubcribe or send a blank email to:

mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Larry Hamilton

Wayne Hayes wrote:
> unsubscribe

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:31:07 -0500,  "Larry Hamilton"
<lmh@...> wrote:

>Rather than use netbeui, the way to go is disable netbeui since it is the
>protocol that is wide open to misuse. Steve Gibson's site explaines this
>well. www.grc.com

Actually, you want to disable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.  NetBEUI is a network
protocol that is designed for operating a local network and is fairly
secure when setup properly.  People sometimes mix up the two  :-)

IPX/SPX is also a network protocol that is sometimes used instead of
NetBEUI.  It is a newer protocol and I believe Microsoft is starting to
phase out NetBEUI on their newer operating systems.

Jan
--
Jan Rosenstreich -  mystic@...
Independent Distributor #130-646
Multi-Pure Drinking Water Filtration Systems
http://www.castle.net/~mystic/pages/multintr.html

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 10:11:04 -0800, DA <daoki01@...> wrote:

>I might be way off base here, but I recently saw a suggestion to do
>this as a security measure, not to remove viruses.  I think they
>only mean that you should stop the file & print sharing via TCP/IP,
>and add the NetBui protocol to do your sharing so that your print
>and file sharing doesn't expose your system to the web.
>
>I haven't tried it yet.  Does this make sense to anyone?

That is the way I have my home network set up.  I run my local network
of 3 machines on the NetBEUI layer.  The NetBEUI network layer provides
my file sharing while the TCP/IP layer provides my Internet
connectivity.  The NetBEUI and TCP/IP layers are totally separate so my
file sharing is secure from any outside access.  NetBIOS is disabled in
TCP/IP for security reasons.  If NetBIOS were enabled, it leaks out
information about your machine and local network that could used by
hackers to break into your machine.  To harden my system and provide
internet access to all 3 machines, I run a hardware router/switch with
NAT firewall.  I also run a software firewall and anti-virus program on
each computer and require passwords for all file shares.

I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
security hole.

I believe in layers of protection rather than depending on only one gate
to keep the intruders out.  The first layer is making sure all the ports
are closed, NetBIOS is disabled under TCP/IP, and all local network
activities are separated from the outside (internet).  The second layer
is a software firewall and an anti-virus program.  The third layer is
the hardware router with built-in NAT firewall.  The fourth layer is
teaching my family members computing common sense (not opening
attachments unless you are expecting it, keep scripting off unless you
really need it, etc.)

In the 4th layer, I also include software selection.  I don't use
certain Microsoft programs due to privacy and security concerns.  I have
also "tamed" other programs so they only do what I want them to do.
Through my firewall, some programs get automatic access, some have to
ask for access each time and some are never allowed access.  I don't
allow programs to run as servers unless it is needed for operation and
then shut down the program when it is no longer needed.

Thus far, in my 7 years on the net, my machines have been clean of any
viruses, worms, trojans, etc.  Part of it is luck but part of it is
being vigilant about security and safe computing practices.

Jan

--
Jan Rosenstreich -  mystic@...
Independent Distributor #130-646
Multi-Pure Drinking Water Filtration Systems
http://www.castle.net/~mystic/pages/multintr.html

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:14:06 -0600, Brian Binder wrote:

>Correct in most cases, but don't get confused on the temp file deletion
>method...
>
>Windows, by design, was NEVER meant to clear out temp files on shutdown.
>
>Never has, never will.  Since the introduction of Windows 95 all the way
>up to Windows XP, there was NEVER an OS release that purposely deleted
>files on shutdown.

I agree that Windows will not clear out ALL temp files on shutdown.  It
will clear out the ones that IT created during during a session (for its
internal use), provided that it shuts down properly.  These are the
files usually found in the Windows\Temp directory.  When Windows hangs,
crashes, or is not shut down properly, these files are left in the
directory.  In my school, it is a running battle to teach the children
to properly shut down the computers.  Every so often, I have to manually
delete hundreds or thousands of temp files.  If I get the motivation, I
might write a small batch program that deletes the contents of the temp
file before Windows get booted.

The other scenario you mention about not cleaning up after install
programs is so true.  I sometimes find several subdirectories under the
temp directory for programs that didn't install properly, or didn't
clean up after themselves.

Jan
--
Jan Rosenstreich
Independent Distributor #130-646
Multi-Pure Drinking Water Filtration Systems
http://www.castle.net/~mystic/pages/multintr.html

This is a reposting of Jan's excellent post from the thread under the subject of
"really offtopic"

>I might be way off base here, but I recently saw a suggestion to do
>this as a security measure, not to remove viruses.  I think they
>only mean that you should stop the file & print sharing via TCP/IP,
>and add the NetBui protocol to do your sharing so that your print
>and file sharing doesn't expose your system to the web.
>
>I haven't tried it yet.  Does this make sense to anyone?

That is the way I have my home network set up.  I run my local network
of 3 machines on the NetBEUI layer.  The NetBEUI network layer provides
my file sharing while the TCP/IP layer provides my Internet
connectivity.  The NetBEUI and TCP/IP layers are totally separate so my
file sharing is secure from any outside access.  NetBIOS is disabled in
TCP/IP for security reasons.  If NetBIOS were enabled, it leaks out
information about your machine and local network that could used by
hackers to break into your machine.  To harden my system and provide
internet access to all 3 machines, I run a hardware router/switch with
NAT firewall.  I also run a software firewall and anti-virus program on
each computer and require passwords for all file shares.

I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
security hole.

I believe in layers of protection rather than depending on only one gate
to keep the intruders out.  The first layer is making sure all the ports
are closed, NetBIOS is disabled under TCP/IP, and all local network
activities are separated from the outside (internet).  The second layer
is a software firewall and an anti-virus program.  The third layer is
the hardware router with built-in NAT firewall.  The fourth layer is
teaching my family members computing common sense (not opening
attachments unless you are expecting it, keep scripting off unless you
really need it, etc.)

In the 4th layer, I also include software selection.  I don't use
certain Microsoft programs due to privacy and security concerns.  I have
also "tamed" other programs so they only do what I want them to do.
Through my firewall, some programs get automatic access, some have to
ask for access each time and some are never allowed access.  I don't
allow programs to run as servers unless it is needed for operation and
then shut down the program when it is no longer needed.

Thus far, in my 7 years on the net, my machines have been clean of any
viruses, worms, trojans, etc.  Part of it is luck but part of it is
being vigilant about security and safe computing practices.

Jan

Hi all,

> I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
> printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
> have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
> security hole.

Good to hear this works with print servers.  I'll probably try this
as soon as I find the time.

DA

To all Off Topic users.

Jan Rosenstreich just spent a lot of time and effort putting together an
excellent post about Home network security to add to what several other folks
contributed and it is all in a thread entitled "really offtopic"

6 months from now most of us will be hard pressed to go to the archives and find
Jan's excellent post and use it as a reference.
(and yes I am familiar with searching the archives but not everyone on the list
is)

I would remind everyone to remember Jody's pleas (and now mine) for us to use
Subject Lines that pertain to the subject matter and if someone else forgets to,
then when you reply, just change the subject line to something appropriate or if
the direction of the thread changes, change the subject line accordingly.

I'm sure you all have seen dozens of posts with the Subject Line of "Help" or
something like "really offtopic" and a week later it is meaningless and is soon
deleted.

I am reposting Jan's post with a fitting Subject Line for those who might one
day find it a valuable reference.

Thanks Jan for taking the time to put that info together for those who are
starting to play with LAN's and for those who will be in the future.

Thank You all in advance.

Jim

On Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:18:14 -0800, DA wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>> I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
>> printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
>> have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
>> security hole.
>
>Good to hear this works with print servers.  I'll probably try this
>as soon as I find the time.

If you decide to run your network under NetBEUI, make sure your print
server supports it (some newer ones might only support Novell or
IPX/SPX).  I bought single printer servers that plug directly into the
back of the printer and convert from the centronix plug to the RJ45
networking connector.  They both came with network drivers that must be
installed prior to use.   If you want to conveniently network your
printers, look for a router/hub that has a built-in print server that is
compatible with your printer connection (parallel, USB, etc.)

I also run a wireless node so my laptop can connect anywhere in the
house and have network connectivity for internet use, file
sharing/transfers, and printing.  Wireless networks have their own
security concerns which might get addressed in another thread.

Jan

--
Jan Rosenstreich
Independent Distributor #130-646
Multi-Pure Drinking Water Filtration Systems
http://www.castle.net/~mystic/pages/multintr.html

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the info.  It looks like what you have is the direction
that I am going, including the wireless and notebook.  I already
have the print servers so I'll have to check the protocol compatibility.
I Just ordered the DSL today and I'm starting that hassle -- Already
problems with the phone company.

If you don't mind, I might have some questions for you in a few weeks
after the DSL is setup.

DA

Jan Rosenstreich wrote:
> >> I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
> >> printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
> >> have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
> >> security hole.
> >
> >Good to hear this works with print servers.  I'll probably try this
> >as soon as I find the time.
>
> If you decide to run your network under NetBEUI, make sure your print
> server supports it (some newer ones might only support Novell or
> IPX/SPX).  I bought single printer servers that plug directly into the
> back of the printer and convert from the centronix plug to the RJ45
> networking connector.  They both came with network drivers that must be
> installed prior to use.   If you want to conveniently network your
> printers, look for a router/hub that has a built-in print server that is
> compatible with your printer connection (parallel, USB, etc.)
>
> I also run a wireless node so my laptop can connect anywhere in the
> house and have network connectivity for internet use, file
> sharing/transfers, and printing.  Wireless networks have their own
> security concerns which might get addressed in another thread.

I would recommend the ZoneAlarm software firewall which has a free and fee
version. There are lots of others out there, but it is the only one I am
aware of with a free version. WinXP comes with a bare-bones firewall, but
from what I understand it has lot of limitations.

The always on internet connections are a target for crackers.

I got cable internet a month ago and no problems yet, but I do not want to
take chances. The free version of ZoneAlarm suits most user's needs. I also
ran by Steve Gibson's site to make sure my PC is hard to see.

I do not have any experience with DSL, my dad got it a couple weeks after I
got cable internet. I do not think he has had any problems yet. I'll check
it out when I am visiting over Christmas.

I like the cable connection. I can just plug in my laptop from work, power
the cable modem off and back on and it works. I dual-boot with Red Hat Linux
7.2 and it just works too. I do not know if DSL is that simple.

Larry Hamilton

DA wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> Thanks for the info.  It looks like what you have is the direction
> that I am going, including the wireless and notebook.  I already
> have the print servers so I'll have to check the protocol compatibility.
> I Just ordered the DSL today and I'm starting that hassle -- Already
> problems with the phone company.
>
> If you don't mind, I might have some questions for you in a few weeks
> after the DSL is setup.
>
> DA
>
> Jan Rosenstreich wrote:
>>>> I have two printers hooked up to print servers to run as network
>>>> printers (under NetBEUI) that are accessible to all the machines.  I
>>>> have disabled print sharing since it is not needed and is a potential
>>>> security hole.
>>>
>>> Good to hear this works with print servers.  I'll probably try this
>>> as soon as I find the time.
>>
>> If you decide to run your network under NetBEUI, make sure your print
>> server supports it (some newer ones might only support Novell or
>> IPX/SPX).  I bought single printer servers that plug directly into the
>> back of the printer and convert from the centronix plug to the RJ45
>> networking connector.  They both came with network drivers that must be
>> installed prior to use.   If you want to conveniently network your
>> printers, look for a router/hub that has a built-in print server that is
>> compatible with your printer connection (parallel, USB, etc.)
>>
>> I also run a wireless node so my laptop can connect anywhere in the
>> house and have network connectivity for internet use, file
>> sharing/transfers, and printing.  Wireless networks have their own
>> security concerns which might get addressed in another thread.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Larry,

I was ready to buy ZoneAlarm until I looked at a couple of sites
where the users were only giving it about a 2/3 approval.  Some
people seem to have a lot of trouble with ZA.  This delayed me
and so I am just biding my time until I have to make a decision.

ZA has such a good reputation, and yet there seem to be so many
problems.  I don't get it.

What happened to Black Ice Defender?  At one time I thought they
were leading the pack.

DA

Larry Hamilton wrote:
>
> I would recommend the ZoneAlarm software firewall which has a free and fee
> version. There are lots of others out there, but it is the only one I am
> aware of with a free version. WinXP comes with a bare-bones firewall, but
> from what I understand it has lot of limitations.

HI  DA,

DA wrote:
> Hi Larry,
>
> I was ready to buy ZoneAlarm until I looked at a couple of sites
> where the users were only giving it about a 2/3 approval.  Some
> people seem to have a lot of trouble with ZA.  This delayed me
> and so I am just biding my time until I have to make a decision.

I have not had significant problems. I find it easy to use.

> ZA has such a good reputation, and yet there seem to be so many
> problems.  I don't get it.
>
> What happened to Black Ice Defender?  At one time I thought they
> were leading the pack.

I am not sure about them. I tried their demo a few years ago, but do not
recall any likes or dislikes.

I have not heard much about them lately.

Larry

I had trouble  with ZoneAlarm Pro, but I went back to the free version and
it has done an excellent job.  It was always better than Black Ice,
according to all the test ran by Steve Gibson. He had the original spyware
detection and removal, his program was called OptOut. And he has some
interesting things going now. http://grc.com/steve.htm
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "DA" <daoki01@...>
To: <ntb-OffTopic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [NTO] Home Network Security by Jan Rosenstreich


Hi Larry,

I was ready to buy ZoneAlarm until I looked at a couple of sites
where the users were only giving it about a 2/3 approval.  Some
people seem to have a lot of trouble with ZA.  This delayed me
and so I am just biding my time until I have to make a decision.

ZA has such a good reputation, and yet there seem to be so many
problems.  I don't get it.

What happened to Black Ice Defender?  At one time I thought they
were leading the pack.

DA

Larry Hamilton wrote:
>
> I would recommend the ZoneAlarm software firewall which has a free and fee
> version. There are lots of others out there, but it is the only one I am
> aware of with a free version. WinXP comes with a bare-bones firewall, but
> from what I understand it has lot of limitations.





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Larry Hamilton wrote:

> I would recommend the ZoneAlarm software firewall which has a free and fee
> version. There are lots of others out there, but it is the only one I am
> aware of with a free version.

Some others;

Outpost
http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpost/
nice interface, easy to use, plug-ins for content filtering, ad blocking,
etc.

Kerio (KPF)
http://www.kerio.com/us/kpf_home.html
not as intuitive as Outpost or ZoneAlarm and no ad blocking but I really
like this one.

Sygate
http://soho.sygate.com/products/shield_ov.htm
no personal experience with this but it is highly regarded by some.

I have never used Black Ice Defender either but there was some criticism
that it was an "intrusion detection system" rather than a personal
firewall in that it did not filter outbound traffic.

HTH
Ben

Here is some info I saved about a year ago from ZDNet (see below my
signature).

HTH,

Ray Shapp
Watchung, NJ

**************************
Learn how to install and configure ZoneAlarm and Norton Personal Firewall with
this step-by-step guide. http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?46515:5686314


__________SPECIAL REPORT____________________
  CHOOSING PROTECTION FOR YOUR PC

http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?/adeskb/adt0626/2592924:5686314

    Priced from free to $100, these software solutions keep hackers out. PC
Magazine Editor-In-Chief Michael J. Miller has the details.

__________MACHRONE'S HOT PRODUCTS____________________
  SOHO FIREWALLS SHARE SECURE, FAST CONNECTIONS
http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?/adeskb/adt0626/2593949:5686314

    Protect your small business or home network from outside intruders. Bill
Machrone explains how.

__________KILLER DOWNLOADS____________________ PROTECT YOURSELF WITH A
PERSONAL FIREWALL

http://cgi.zdnet.com/slink?/adeskb/adt0622/2591849:5686314

    If you're concerned about security on your PC, download guy Preston Gralla
has an exclusive download that should ease your fears.

Hi alice ttlg,

Thanks again.  I don't sign up for the lists from the
confirmation letters of course.

Check out my new site sometime.  I still need to add some links yet,
but al in all it seems to be working OK. http://www.clean-funnies.com

If anybody happens to reply, please change the subject to Clean-Funnies
TIA - jody No (was: Spam... is needed in the Subject line.

>> Thanks again.  I sometimes get me confirmation message to join
>> one of our lists on a different eMail address (and did not sign
>> up), so somebody is playing some games.
>
>More likely, it's the newer viruses (Klez and there's at least one other)


Happy Topics,
Jody

The NoteTab Off-Topic List
mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Hi Paul and Others,

FYI, I had him take the Startup shortcut out and that fix the
problem.  I just now suggested he put it back. ;)

>>Jody:
>>
>>I sent this message originally to the wrong address. Sorry about that.
>>If I must remove the programs and reinstall, I want to keep my settings
>>and text files. You would not believe the number of NTP and MB screens
>>that come up at startup. I really messed up on the installation procedure.
>>
>>Paul King
>>
>>> I have mislaid my address for the off-topic list and this
>>> query should be routed to Jody.
>>>
>>> I have just downloaded and installed the new versions of
>>> Mailbag and Note Tab Pro. Now both programs are opening when I
>>> boot up and I also get a screen asking me if I really want to
>>> delete NTP from my unit. I must close several windows before I
>>> can get to my desktop.
>>>
>>> Installation of NTP and MB was made over the top of earlier
>>> versions.
>>>
>>> I'm at a loss to know how to correct the problem and don't
>>> want to make it worse by using the wrong approach.
>>>
>>> I downloaded both revisions to my C:\Downloads file and
>>> installed them from there after closing down all active
>>> programs with End It All, a small utility I have used for
>>> three years without event. Zone Alarm also was closed. I have
>>> a long-established practice of installing from C:\Downloads.
>>>
>>> When I run my Fix-It utilities, they do a good job of
>>> eliminating the clutter and cleaning up my registry. But all
>>> the problems recur whenever I shut down and reboot.
>>>
>>> Please tell me if it's necessary to remove the NTP and MB
>>> installations and reinstall them. Is it possible that
>>> installing them from C:\Downloads file is causing my problems?
>>>
>>> I have twice defragged during this episode, but it does not
>>> help.


Happy Topics,
Jody

The NoteTab Off-Topic List
mailto:ntb-OffTopic-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
mailto:ntb-OffTopic-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Lottta:

You seem to be up on what's going on with Mozilla :-)

Long story short: If the current nightly build fails to connect at all,
but the "previous stable version" does connect - should I just wait for
a couple of days and try again, or is there some bug reporting procedure
that would be useful (for me or for mozilla.org)?

Here's the long story:
==============
I hadn't used Mozilla in a while, I'd had some problems the last time I
tried to use it w/Multizilla, so I went to the mozilla.org and d/l'd the
latest build:
mozilla-win32-installer-sea.exe:
  mozilla.exe version 1.3.0.0 Sat, 23-Nov-2002 , 06:13:00 110 KB (112,640
bytes)

When I tried to execute it after an install-over my current version
every site I tried to execute gave an immediate: >>The connection was
refused when attempting to contact www.mozilla.org.<<

After screwing around for a while trying to work out what was going
wrong, (at first I thought it might be related to my use of Proxomitron,
since I was also unable to get a new install of Opera 6.05 to work;-) I
eventually uninstalled the nightly build, and removed all files in the
Mozilla folder (which of course also removes my Mozilla-Google bar and
Multizilla per your refs from 30-sept left below) and redownloaded the
"previous stable build":
mozilla-win32-1.1-installer.exe:
  mozilla.exe version (none in Properties) Mon, 26-Aug-2002 , 12:28:00
108 KB (111,104 bytes)

It works!
After reinstalling (in a different location) the nightly build above, it
still fails.
I also installed version 1.2b (again in a different location) and to my
surprise, it fails exactly the same as the 1.3a

I filed bugzilla report:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=181818

Any suggestions?

Regards ... Alec
--
-------------------------

On Mon, 30-Sep-2002 01:30 [GMT+500 EST], loro <loro@...> wrote:

> Alec et al,
>
> Since you like tabs you may want to look at the below add-on. I
> haven't tried it myself but heard it described as "tabbed browsing on
> steroids". http://multizilla.mozdev.org/
>
> The preferences toolbar is a must:
> http://www.xulplanet.com/downloads/index.html
>
> Mouse gestures:
> http://optimoz.mozdev.org/
>
> If you are into webdesign you can get for example The Useragent
> Override Sidebar and  Mozilla Source Generator from here:
> http://mozilla-evangelism.bclary.com/sidebars/
>
> and so on and so on....MozYup! :-)
>
> Lotta
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/dkFolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

At 05:52 2002.11.25, Alec Burgess wrote:
>You seem to be up on what's going on with Mozilla :-)

Appearances can be deceptive. I believe it's Harvey that's the true Moz
addict here. I never bother with the nightlies.

>After reinstalling (in a different location) the nightly build above, it
>still fails.
>I also installed version 1.2b (again in a different location) and to my
>surprise, it fails exactly the same as the 1.3a

Don't know. All I can think of is maybe delete the profiles and stuff since
all versions share them.

Lotta

Lotta:
> Don't know. All I can think of is maybe delete the profiles and stuff
> since all versions share them.

I should have thought of that myself, uninstalling the 1.3a and THEN
clearing out the Documents_and_Settings\...\Mozilla folder did the
trick.

Going back over some of old e-mails I'd saved I found the advice from
hrs (and/or from you?) that trying to keep more than one version
installed is a back-ass-wards way to do it.

After getting it going I found on another forum this advice from the
T.C.
(Alice that is you isn't it ;-)
>>> When you uninstalled, did you just run the uninstall or did you also
delete
> the Mozilla folder in Program Files?  And also delete the Mozilla
folder in
> Windows/Application Data?
>
> That's where your user preferences and bookmarks are kept and if
they're
> corrupted (thus causing the problem), you need to delete those folders
as well
> to let it really install from scratch.  Running the uninstall does
*not*
> delete those folders.
<<
Anyway, its all running (with Proxomitron too) and I can now try and get
back the Mozilla-Google toolbar and the Multizilla tabbed enhancements.

Thx all!

Regards ... Alec
--
-------------------------

On Mon, 25-Nov-2002 00:10 [GMT+500 EST], loro <loro@...> wrote:

> At 05:52 2002.11.25, Alec Burgess wrote:
>> You seem to be up on what's going on with Mozilla :-)
>
> Appearances can be deceptive. I believe it's Harvey that's the true
> Moz addict here. I never bother with the nightlies.
>
>> After reinstalling (in a different location) the nightly build
>> above, it still fails.
>> I also installed version 1.2b (again in a different location) and to
>> my surprise, it fails exactly the same as the 1.3a
>
>
> Lotta
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~--> Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/dkFolB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
->
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Alec wrote:
> After getting it going I found on another forum this advice from the
> T.C.
> (Alice that is you isn't it ;-)

yep, that's me :-), I was just about to post that when I read Lotta's post, when
Mozilla has trouble or crashes, it appears to need all the various Mozilla
folders completely deleted before reinstalling.  You can however save your
bookmarks.html file to another location and then copy it back after successfully
reinstalling Mozilla, that way you don't lose all your bookmarks.

> Anyway, its all running (with Proxomitron too) and I can now try and get
> back the Mozilla-Google toolbar and the Multizilla tabbed enhancements.

Are you on 1.2b?  or one of the nightly builds?  I was running 1.1 and managed
to crash it badly, had to completely uninstall/reinstall and I ended up going
with 1.2b because I couldn't find a Multizilla download that worked with 1.1.
1.2b is great tho, it runs better and faster, I wa having problems with opening
a lot of sites and memory dropping and then not being freed up when I closed
Mozilla but 1.2b fixed all that.

I'm not daring enough to run the nightly builds. :-)

alice ttlg


Coda: http://coda.populli.org/
Idiot Box: http://idiotbox.populli.org/
--
Out of a cloud of dust, Krycek will walk.
- Dean Haglund

Ben wrote:
> Some others;
<snip>

here's another:

Tiny Firewall
http://www.tinysoftware.com/home/tiny2?pg=main

I used ZA (free version) for several years but somewhere in the major upgrade
they did this year(?) when the interface changed, that's when I heard of more
people having problems with it.  And lots of problems with the pay version.  And
tons more problems uninstalling it.

I installed a hub/router firewall recently so I turned off ZA, I didn't
uninstall it, just unchecked the box to run at startup and I find I have loads
of memory and resources freed up, I can run a bunch of programs, open a bunch of
sites and I don't crash as much, the Windows resources don't drop to zero any
more, I'm not having to reboot a couple times during the day.

I also quit using Norton anti-virus a couple months ago, switched to the free
version of AVG instead and started using Mozilla instead of IE, so those things
helped too but the most dramatic increase of available memory and resources came
when I turned off ZA.

If I do go back to using firewall software, I'll probably look at Tiny first,
I've heard good things about it, plus I'll check out those other links Ben
posted.

alice ttlg


Coda: http://coda.populli.org/
Idiot Box: http://idiotbox.populli.org/
--
In one century, we went from teaching Latin and Greek in high school to offering
remedial English in college.
-- Joseph Sobran

Hello group,

I use the already mentioned Sygate Firewall which is free for already 2
years or more. I never encountered any problems and when I tested it (some
site on the net offered to make a test if there were some holes or leaks) it
was rated safe.

Raimund.

Hi alice,

> Tiny Firewall
> http://www.tinysoftware.com/home/tiny2?pg=main
>
> I used ZA (free version) for several years but somewhere in the major upgrade
> they did this year(?) when the interface changed, that's when I heard of more
> people having problems with it.  And lots of problems with the pay version. 
And
> tons more problems uninstalling it.

That's definitely the impression I get from reading many user reviews of ZA.
I'll look for an alternative -- Maybe Tiny.  Thanks for the info.

DA

On Mon, 25-Nov-2002 13:09 [GMT+500 EST], alice ttlg <coda@...>
wrote:

> I'm not daring enough to run the nightly builds. :-)

At least for the present Mozilla is my secondary browser - I'm using
MyIE2 for the heavy lifting.

> Are you on 1.2b?  or one of the nightly builds?  I was running 1.1
> and managed to crash it badly, had to completely uninstall/reinstall
> and I ended up going with 1.2b because I couldn't find a Multizilla
> download that worked with 1.1.

I guess Saturday's 1.3a (nightly) was was a good vintage!
Subsquent to yesterday's posts I got Multizilla (latest), GoogleBar and
PrefencesBar all up and apparently working fine.

FWIW: I think the genesis of my problems was an earlier attempt to get
Multizilla working (I think with an earlier 1.2b). Multiziilaa was
reporting a new build available, but when I tried to get it, insisted I
get a more recent Mozilla build. I have a feeling that in that round ( a
couple of weeks ago) I managed to screw something up so that
Mozilla-Multizilla never work properly until I did the full restart
yesterday.

Btw: Do you also try to keep up with Opera? I d/l'd and installed Opera
6.05 (during-after) the Mozilla problems (it had never been on this
machine) and it fails to work. I was afraid that it was some common
underlying problem with protocols, proxies etc. but based on succcess
with Mozilla I'm guessing it is something particular to it (thank
god;-) ). Maybe I'll try again in a couple of days. One thing I do like
about Opera (when I used to have it working) is the ability to zoom
in-out on whole windows easily. AFAIK that's unique to it (?). The
IE-variants all have zoom in-out, but just on a particular graphic
(correct?)

Regards ... Alec
--
-------------------------

> Alec wrote:
>> After getting it going I found on another forum this advice from the
>> T.C.
>> (Alice that is you isn't it ;-)
>
<snip>

Alec wrote:
> FWIW: I think the genesis of my problems was an earlier attempt to get
> Multizilla working (I think with an earlier 1.2b). Multiziilaa was
> reporting a new build available, but when I tried to get it, insisted I
> get a more recent Mozilla build. I have a feeling that in that round ( a
> couple of weeks ago) I managed to screw something up so that
> Mozilla-Multizilla never work properly until I did the full restart
> yesterday.

Something went funky with the Multizilla plugins for any version of Mozilla
prior to 1.2b.  I had previously had Multizilla working with Mozilla v1.0 but
after my crash, I couldn't get find a Multizilla plugin for that version that
would install or if it did, it didn't look or work the same.  So I ended up
installing 1.2b instead (which turned out to be a good thing because of the
improvements in 1.2b to memory and resource usage and it's more stable than 1.0
was).

> Btw: Do you also try to keep up with Opera? I d/l'd and installed Opera
> 6.05 (during-after) the Mozilla problems (it had never been on this

I have Opera 6 installed on my other computer, I use it only for testing
websites to browser compatibility (Opera 5 had some quirks in it, Opera 6 is
more standards compatible) but I never use it for browsing cause I don't like
the ads and I don't like their toolbars, the icons are not intuitive for me (and
I'm still too cheap to pay for a browser when there's IE, Mozilla and Netscape
for free without ads :-)).

And speaking of Netscape, I installed v7 for testing purposes and I had heard
that they removed the Mozilla option to block unrequested popup windows so I
checked out the preferences and they did remove that option and replaced it with
the option to block opening links in new windows so at first glance, it's not
apparent that something's missing.  Sneaky people. :-)

> god;-) ). Maybe I'll try again in a couple of days. One thing I do like
> about Opera (when I used to have it working) is the ability to zoom
> in-out on whole windows easily. AFAIK that's unique to it (?). The
> IE-variants all have zoom in-out, but just on a particular graphic
> (correct?)

Yes, IE zooms on images, both IE and Mozilla have text zoom as well.

alice ttlg


Coda: http://coda.populli.org/
Idiot Box: http://idiotbox.populli.org/
--
Things need not to have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow
truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes and forgot.
- Morpheus, the Dream Lord

Alec, Alice,

>
> Yes, IE zooms on images, both IE and Mozilla have text zoom as well.
>
> alice ttlg
>

IN IE: if you have a scrollwheel, hold CTRL while rolling the wheel.
Text size changes immediately. I'm not sure it works in other
applications, just found out about it.

Hugo

> hugo_paulissen wrote:
  >
  > > Alec, Alice,
  > >
  > > Yes, IE zooms on images, both IE and Mozilla have text zoom as well.
  > >
  > > alice ttlg
  >
  >
  > IN IE: if you have a scroll wheel, hold CTRL while rolling the wheel.
  > Text size changes immediately. I'm not sure it works in other
  > applications, just found out about it.
  >
  > Hugo

Hugo, Alice, others,

I noticed mouse wheel settings before but never checked them until these
last emails

Mozilla also has a user definable features to increase/decrease text
size, and a couple of other things, in the browser.  As in IE you use
the scroll wheel in conjunction with your choice of Alt, Control or
Shift keys.

hrs

Hugo,

IN IE: if you have a scrollwheel, hold CTRL while rolling the wheel.
>Text size changes immediately. I'm not sure it works in other
>applications, just found out about it.


In case you haven't already, try SHIFT scroll. That is Forward and Back in IE6
:-)

ALT scroll doesn't seem to do much for me.

Jim

At 07:47 2002.11.27, you wrote:
>Hugo,
>
>IN IE: if you have a scrollwheel, hold CTRL while rolling the wheel.
> >Text size changes immediately. I'm not sure it works in other
> >applications, just found out about it.
>
>
>In case you haven't already, try SHIFT scroll. That is Forward and Back in
>IE6 :-)

Both things work in Moz and Opera too. Ctrl + Wheel works in some other
application. Office for one. And some text editors [hint to Eric].

But I can use the scroll wheel to go between tabs in Notetab. Taa-taa! :-)))
Wanna try?
http://www.tcbmi.com/strokeit/

Lotta