ntb-html : Messages : 6166-6195 of 7309

#6166

From: Ray Shapp <ras45@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 3:27 am
Subject: Browsers Don't Render HTML

Hello All,

I am trying to help a friend get started with HTML. Two complications are
that: a) I'm doing this long distance. He is over an hour away. b) He is using
a Mac computer, and I have successfully avoided knowing anything about that
breed.

Our first obstacle is that the short bit of code below is rendered by Firefox
and Internet Explorer as text on my friend's Mac. IOW, the browsers don't
display "Hello world.". Instead, they display all the text shown below. My
friend is certain that the code is stored in a file called "test.html". He
assures me that the file name does not have any hidden extension such as
".txt".

When I store the same text into a file called "test.htm" on my computer
(running WinXP Home), it renders as expected in MSIE v6.0 and in Firefox
v2.0.0.8.

Can you tell me what troubleshooting I should do to cause my friend's browsers
to correctly render this bit of code?

Thanks for the help.

Ray Shapp

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>My first HTML page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello world.</p>
</body>
</html>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6167

From: "Dave" <dmc43959@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 5:00 am
Subject: Re: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

david_99_au

Send Email

Hi
It looks OK to me but do know what browser the Mac running ,I do not know
what a Mac uses for text editor i.e. notepad in windows, you should be able
to put the basic page in to text editor and rename it "new.html" and it
should work try below.
<html>
<head>
<title>My first HTML page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello world.</p>
</body>
</html>
     THANKYOU DAVE M


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Shapp" <ras45@...>
To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:27 PM
Subject: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML


> Hello All,
>
> I am trying to help a friend get started with HTML. Two complications are
> that: a) I'm doing this long distance. He is over an hour away. b) He is
> using
> a Mac computer, and I have successfully avoided knowing anything about
> that
> breed.
>
> Our first obstacle is that the short bit of code below is rendered by
> Firefox
> and Internet Explorer as text on my friend's Mac. IOW, the browsers don't
> display "Hello world.". Instead, they display all the text shown below. My
> friend is certain that the code is stored in a file called "test.html". He
> assures me that the file name does not have any hidden extension such as
> ".txt".
>
> When I store the same text into a file called "test.htm" on my computer
> (running WinXP Home), it renders as expected in MSIE v6.0 and in Firefox
> v2.0.0.8.
>
> Can you tell me what troubleshooting I should do to cause my friend's
> browsers
> to correctly render this bit of code?
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Ray Shapp
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>My first HTML page</title>
> </head>
> <body>
> <p>Hello world.</p>
> </body>
> </html>
>
>
>
> NoteTab site: http://www.notetab.com/
> Fookes Software site: http://www.fookes.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6168

From: fw7oaks <fw7oaks@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:08 am
Subject: Re: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

fw7oaks

Send Email

The Mac 'notepad' is called TextEdit and if you cut and paste the text below
into it will offer to save it either as RTF or Word format.  Even if you force
the issue by typing in the extension 'html' it will open with TextEdit if you
click on it.

He's probably running Safari which will if you use the command file open, to
view the file  (new.html) you have created will display 'Hello World'.

To get the file to open in Safari using TextEdit you need to paste the text you
have swiped from below, then use Format, Make plain text and then save, forcing
the extension html.  Then you get a clickable, viewable in a browser html file.

fw




--- Dave <dmc43959@...> wrote:

> Hi
> It looks OK to me but do know what browser the Mac running ,I do not know
> what a Mac uses for text editor i.e. notepad in windows, you should be able
> to put the basic page in to text editor and rename it "new.html" and it
> should work try below.
> <html>
> <head>
> <title>My first HTML page</title>
> </head>
> <body>
> <p>Hello world.</p>
> </body>
> </html>
>     THANKYOU DAVE M
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Shapp" <ras45@...>
> To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:27 PM
> Subject: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML
>
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I am trying to help a friend get started with HTML. Two complications are
> > that: a) I'm doing this long distance. He is over an hour away. b) He is
> > using
> > a Mac computer, and I have successfully avoided knowing anything about
> > that
> > breed.
> >
> > Our first obstacle is that the short bit of code below is rendered by
> > Firefox
> > and Internet Explorer as text on my friend's Mac. IOW, the browsers don't
> > display "Hello world.". Instead, they display all the text shown below. My
> > friend is certain that the code is stored in a file called "test.html". He
> > assures me that the file name does not have any hidden extension such as
> > ".txt".
> >
> > When I store the same text into a file called "test.htm" on my computer
> > (running WinXP Home), it renders as expected in MSIE v6.0 and in Firefox
> > v2.0.0.8.
> >
> > Can you tell me what troubleshooting I should do to cause my friend's
> > browsers
> > to correctly render this bit of code?
> >
> > Thanks for the help.
> >
> > Ray Shapp
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
> > <html>
> > <head>
> > <title>My first HTML page</title>
> > </head>
> > <body>
> > <p>Hello world.</p>
> > </body>
> > </html>
> >
> >
> >
> > NoteTab site: http://www.notetab.com/
> > Fookes Software site: http://www.fookes.com/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> NoteTab site: http://www.notetab.com/
> Fookes Software site: http://www.fookes.com/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6169

From: Ray Shapp <ras45@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 8:13 am
Subject: Re: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

rayshapp

Send Email

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

My friend uses a basic text editor on the Mac called "TextEditor". It is
similar to Notepad. He is using Firefox and MSIE.

This is really not a HTML question. We all agree that the code he is using is
flawless. The question is about the behavior of the browsers on the Mac. Why
don't they render this HTML document as expected? Here again (below) is the
document which he is saving as "test.html".

Ray Shapp

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>My first HTML page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello world.</p>
</body>
</html>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6170

From: "John Wallace" <johnta1@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:41 pm
Subject: RE: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

johnta1@...

Send Email

How is he opening the file?
With the broswer's file open command or from the text editor?


John Wallace
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com



    _____

From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ray Shapp
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:13 AM
To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML



Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

My friend uses a basic text editor on the Mac called "TextEditor"-. It is
similar to Notepad. He is using Firefox and MSIE.

This is really not a HTML question. We all agree that the code he is using is
flawless. The question is about the behavior of the browsers on the Mac. Why
don't they render this HTML document as expected? Here again (below) is the
document which he is saving as "test.html".

Ray Shapp

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional/-/EN"
"HYPERLINK
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"http://www.w3.-org/TR/html4/-loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>My first HTML page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello world.</p>
</body>
</html>









No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.20/1107 - Release Date: 11/3/2007
11:22 AM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6171

From: "Corl DeLuna" <corl@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:46 pm
Subject: RE: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

corl_deluna

Send Email

Hi Ray,

The mark up validates http://validator.w3.org/#validate_by_input.

In Firefox I can drag the test.html file into a window to open it, I can use
the menu File > Open File and browse to select the test.html. Both should
work about the same with MSIE. If neither of these work your friend isn't
saving it as html, and I don't know if there are Mac tricks with TextEditor
to do that. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_qdr=all&q=HTML+TextEditor+mac&btnG=Se
arch> &as_qdr=all&q=HTML+TextEditor+mac&btnG=Search

Best,
Corl

   _____

From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ray Shapp
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 1:13 AM
To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML



Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

My friend uses a basic text editor on the Mac called "TextEditor". It is
similar to Notepad. He is using Firefox and MSIE.

This is really not a HTML question. We all agree that the code he is using
is
flawless. The question is about the behavior of the browsers on the Mac. Why

don't they render this HTML document as expected? Here again (below) is the
document which he is saving as "test.html".

Ray Shapp

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3. <http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd>
org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>My first HTML page</title>
</head>
<body>
<p>Hello world.</p>
</body>
</html>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6172

From: sisterscape <sisterscape@...>
Date: Sun Nov 4, 2007 2:58 pm
Subject: RE: [NH] Browsers Don't Render HTML

sisterscape

Send Email

--- Corl DeLuna <corl@...> wrote:
> If neither of these work your friend isn't
> saving it as html, and I don't know if there are Mac tricks with
> TextEditor to do that.

The Mac users that I know are completely clueless about things like
this. I can explain and explain and they still don't 'get it'.  Sigh .
. .

Does he have file extensions hidden by default? I think I remember it
being that way in Windoze. If he makes them visible, he can see what
the file is saved as.

Good luck!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)

#6173

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 3:56 pm
Subject: ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

Send Email

Greetings,

In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target - although it
gets close...
http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg

Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24

The link is also here:
http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/monday.php
The link text is "test" above the first image.

Anyone else seeing this behavior in FF?
Is my mark-up the problem?

Thanks,
-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6174

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

absalom_nemini

Send Email

WV-Mike wrote:
> In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target

I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
the same thing. But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
tags. I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6175

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

Send Email

At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
>I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
>the same thing.

I have had the FF behavior verified by others but not the Opera behavior.
Opera Works fine for me.
So does IE.

>But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
>use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
>reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

I just switched from name to ID.
Back and forth...

>N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT tags.

At the risk of being callous and politically incorrect I am not to
concerned about the missing ALT tags.
I consider my comments, off site links and quotes the ALT for the images.

>I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
>I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
>and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
>the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

Below is the reply I made previously to another list concerning validation
as well as missing height declarations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greetings,

When I run Tidy, I get no errors reported.
I think a lot of the errors reported from the link above are related to the
menu includes:
http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php
http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php

I did find a couple of open tags and fixed them, but as far as the rest of
the errors, I am at a loss to understand them and cannot find them in the
mark-up.

When I check just the page with fire bug I get:
Result: 0 errors / 3 warnings

*line 147 column 37 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
*line 154 column 59 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
line 131 column 1 - Warning: <li> anchor "currentpage" already defined
Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
Info: Document content looks like XHTML 1.0 Transitional

* I do not see what is being referred to here.


When validated with http://validator.w3.org/ I get this mess:
The following missing or conflicting information caused the validator to
perform guesswork prior to validation. If the guess or fallback is
incorrect, it may make validation results entirely incoherent. It is highly
recommended to check these potential issues, and, if necessary, fix them
and re-validate the document.

     1.

        Warning No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8.

        None of the standards sources gave any information on the character
encoding labeling for this document. Without encoding information it is
impossible to reliably validate the document. As a fallback solution, the
"UTF-8" encoding was used to read the content and attempt to perform the
validation, but this is likely to fail for all non-trivial documents.

        The sources used to find encoding information include:
            * The HTTP Content-Type field.
            * The XML Declaration.
            * The HTML "META" element.

        The algorithm defined in Appendix F of the XML 1.0 Recommendation
was also used, without success.

        Since none of these sources yielded any usable information, reliable
validation of this document is not possible. Sorry. Please make sure you
specify the character encoding in use.

        Specifying a character encoding is typically done by the web server
configuration, by the scripts that put together pages, or inside the
document itself. IANA maintains the list of official names for character
encodings (called charsets in this context). You can choose from a number
of encodings, though we recommend UTF-8 as particularly useful.

        The W3C I18N Activity has collected a few tips on how to declare the
encoding of a Web document.

        To quickly check whether the document would validate after
addressing the missing character encoding information, you can use the
"Encoding" form control earlier in the page to force an encoding override
to take effect. "iso-8859-1" (Western Europe and North America) and "utf-8"
(Universal, but not commonly used in legacy documents) are common encodings
if you are not sure what encoding to choose.
     2.

        Warning Unable to Determine Parse Mode!

        The validator can process documents either as XML (for document
types such as XHTML, SVG, etc.) or SGML (for HTML 4.01 and prior versions).
For this document, the information available was not sufficient to
determine the parsing mode unambiguously, because:
            * the MIME Media Type (text/html) can be used for XML or SGML
document types
            * No known Document Type could be detected
            * No XML declaration (e.g <?xml version="1.0"?>) could be found
at the beginning of the document.

        As a default, the validator is falling back to SGML mode.
     3.

        Warning No DOCTYPE found, and unknown root element. Aborting validation.

        The DOCTYPE Declaration was not recognized or is missing. This
probably means that the Formal Public Identifier contains a spelling error,
or that the Declaration is not using correct syntax, or that your document
is not using a DOCTYPE Declaration.

        Without a DOCTYPE Declaration it is not possible to check the
validity of your document. Since the document does not start with the root
<html> element, automatic fallback to an HTML document type was not
performed, and most of the validation process was aborted: only basic
markup syntax was checked.

        Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
specific Document Type.

? Top
Validation Output: 10 Errors

     1. Error Line 2, Column 0: no document type declaration; will parse
without validation.

        <p style="text-align: center;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT
2007<br /> ~ Cali

        ?

        The document type could not be determined, because the document had
no correct DOCTYPE declaration. The document does not look like HTML,
therefore automatic fallback could not be performed, and the document was
only checked against basic markup syntax.

        Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
specific Document Type.
     2. Warning Line 2, Column 71: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

        �ter;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT 2007<br /> ~ California ~
Week 4</strong></p>

        ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
     3. Error Line 3, Column 17: document type does not allow element "UL" here.

        <ul id="navlist1">

        ?

        The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

        One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
     4. Warning Line 5, Column 65: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

        �monday.php'><strong>M</strong>onday - October 08<br /></a></li>

        ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
     5. Warning Line 14, Column 86: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG
YES.

        �ndex.php'><strong>W</strong>eek 3<br /></a></li>

        ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
     6. Error Line 19, Column 108: document type does not allow element
"DIV" here.

        �; color:#000;background:transparent;">

        ?

        The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

        One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
     7. Warning Line 22, Column 93: cannot generate system identifier for
general entity "nbsp".

        �e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /

        ?

        An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

        Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

        If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

        Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
     8. Error Line 22, Column 93: general entity "nbsp" not defined and no
default entity.

        �e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
     9. Error Line 22, Column 97: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

        �ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> th

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
    10. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

        �le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br

    11. Warning Line 22, Column 100: cannot generate system identifier for
general entity "gt".

        �Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the f

        ?

        An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

        Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

        If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

        Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
    12. Error Line 22, Column 100: general entity "gt" not defined and no
default entity.

        �Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the f

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
    13. Error Line 22, Column 102: reference to entity "gt" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

        �dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br
/> the fre

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
    14. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

        �iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the

    15. Warning Line 22, Column 117: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

        �ncyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free
encyclopedia

        ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
    16. Warning Line 22, Column 132: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

        �sp;=>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free encyclopedia </a>

        ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
    17. Error Line 26, Column 105: document type does not allow element
"DIV" here.

        �; color:#000;background:transparent;">

        ?

        The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

        One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
    18. Error Line 29, Column 119: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

        �ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
/>WikiPedia<�

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
    19. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

        �le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br

    20. Error Line 29, Column 124: reference to entity "gt" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

        �dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
/>WikiPedia</a>

        ?

        This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
    21. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

        �iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the

    22. Warning Line 29, Column 146: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

        �edia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br />WikiPedia</a>     ?

        The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At 11:21 AM 11/7/2007 , Ian Leckie wrote:
>On Nov 7, 2007, at Wed, Nov 7 - 9:55AM, Mike Breiding wrote:
>
> > In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target -
> > although it
> > gets close...
> > http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/
> > index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
> > 0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg
> >
> > Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24
>
>You don't have heights and widths set on your images. It looks like
>Firefox scrolls to the correct spot initially, but then the layout of
>the page changes as all of the images draw in. If you reload the page
>with all of the images in your cache, it jumps to the correct spot.
>Set all of your heights and widths and I bet it will start working.

This *may* be it.
I filled in the missing heights and tried it.
FF jumps to the ID immediately but then scrolls back up as the images are read.
I don't think I missed any heights.

With the cache cleared IE jumps to the ID and stays put as all the images load.
Opera opens to the top of the page and then jumps to the ID.

Freaky...

-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6176

From: "Corl DeLuna" <corl@...>
Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 6:04 pm
Subject: RE: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

corl_deluna

Send Email

Hi Mike,

I use both name and ID:

<a href="#a1"><a name="a1" id="a1"></a> <!-- match anchor link name --></a>

<a name="a1" id="a1"></a> <!-- match anchor link name -->

Plus, Just so you don't spin your wheels in the sand too much trying to
please every browser out there, take a look at these browser stats:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=6
<http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=6&qpmr=55&qpdt=1&qpct=3&q
pcal=1&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=105>
&qpmr=55&qpdt=1&qpct=3&qpcal=1&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=105

Happy Road Trippin',
Corl

   _____

From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of WV-Mike
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:18 AM
To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
>I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
>the same thing.

I have had the FF behavior verified by others but not the Opera behavior.
Opera Works fine for me.
So does IE.

>But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
>use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
>reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

I just switched from name to ID.
Back and forth...

>N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
tags.

At the risk of being callous and politically incorrect I am not to
concerned about the missing ALT tags.
I consider my comments, off site links and quotes the ALT for the images.

>I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
>I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
>and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
>the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

Below is the reply I made previously to another list concerning validation
as well as missing height declarations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Greetings,

When I run Tidy, I get no errors reported.
I think a lot of the errors reported from the link above are related to the
menu includes:
http://epicroadtrip
<http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php>
s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php
http://epicroadtrip
<http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php>
s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php

I did find a couple of open tags and fixed them, but as far as the rest of
the errors, I am at a loss to understand them and cannot find them in the
mark-up.

When I check just the page with fire bug I get:
Result: 0 errors / 3 warnings

*line 147 column 37 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
*line 154 column 59 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
line 131 column 1 - Warning: <li> anchor "currentpage" already defined
Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
Info: Document content looks like XHTML 1.0 Transitional

* I do not see what is being referred to here.

When validated with http://validator. <http://validator.w3.org/> w3.org/ I
get this mess:
The following missing or conflicting information caused the validator to
perform guesswork prior to validation. If the guess or fallback is
incorrect, it may make validation results entirely incoherent. It is highly
recommended to check these potential issues, and, if necessary, fix them
and re-validate the document.

1.

Warning No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8.

None of the standards sources gave any information on the character
encoding labeling for this document. Without encoding information it is
impossible to reliably validate the document. As a fallback solution, the
"UTF-8" encoding was used to read the content and attempt to perform the
validation, but this is likely to fail for all non-trivial documents.

The sources used to find encoding information include:
* The HTTP Content-Type field.
* The XML Declaration.
* The HTML "META" element.

The algorithm defined in Appendix F of the XML 1.0 Recommendation
was also used, without success.

Since none of these sources yielded any usable information, reliable
validation of this document is not possible. Sorry. Please make sure you
specify the character encoding in use.

Specifying a character encoding is typically done by the web server
configuration, by the scripts that put together pages, or inside the
document itself. IANA maintains the list of official names for character
encodings (called charsets in this context). You can choose from a number
of encodings, though we recommend UTF-8 as particularly useful.

The W3C I18N Activity has collected a few tips on how to declare the
encoding of a Web document.

To quickly check whether the document would validate after
addressing the missing character encoding information, you can use the
"Encoding" form control earlier in the page to force an encoding override
to take effect. "iso-8859-1" (Western Europe and North America) and "utf-8"
(Universal, but not commonly used in legacy documents) are common encodings
if you are not sure what encoding to choose.
2.

Warning Unable to Determine Parse Mode!

The validator can process documents either as XML (for document
types such as XHTML, SVG, etc.) or SGML (for HTML 4.01 and prior versions).
For this document, the information available was not sufficient to
determine the parsing mode unambiguously, because:
* the MIME Media Type (text/html) can be used for XML or SGML
document types
* No known Document Type could be detected
* No XML declaration (e.g <?xml version="1.0"?>) could be found
at the beginning of the document.

As a default, the validator is falling back to SGML mode.
3.

Warning No DOCTYPE found, and unknown root element. Aborting validation.

The DOCTYPE Declaration was not recognized or is missing. This
probably means that the Formal Public Identifier contains a spelling error,
or that the Declaration is not using correct syntax, or that your document
is not using a DOCTYPE Declaration.

Without a DOCTYPE Declaration it is not possible to check the
validity of your document. Since the document does not start with the root
<html> element, automatic fallback to an HTML document type was not
performed, and most of the validation process was aborted: only basic
markup syntax was checked.

Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
specific Document Type.

? Top
Validation Output: 10 Errors

1. Error Line 2, Column 0: no document type declaration; will parse
without validation.

<p style="text-align: center;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT
2007<br /> ~ Cali

?

The document type could not be determined, because the document had
no correct DOCTYPE declaration. The document does not look like HTML,
therefore automatic fallback could not be performed, and the document was
only checked against basic markup syntax.

Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
specific Document Type.
2. Warning Line 2, Column 71: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

.ter;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT 2007<br /> ~ California ~
Week 4</strong></p>

?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
3. Error Line 3, Column 17: document type does not allow element "UL" here.

<ul id="navlist1">

?

The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
4. Warning Line 5, Column 65: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

.monday.php'><strong>M</strong>onday - October 08<br /></a></li>

?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
5. Warning Line 14, Column 86: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG
YES.

.ndex.php'><strong>W</strong>eek 3<br /></a></li>

?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
6. Error Line 19, Column 108: document type does not allow element
"DIV" here.

.; color:#000;background:transparent;">

?

The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
7. Warning Line 22, Column 93: cannot generate system identifier for
general entity "nbsp".

.e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /

?

An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
8. Error Line 22, Column 93: general entity "nbsp" not defined and no
default entity.

.e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
9. Error Line 22, Column 97: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

.ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> th

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
10. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

.le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br

11. Warning Line 22, Column 100: cannot generate system identifier for
general entity "gt".

.Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the f

?

An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
12. Error Line 22, Column 100: general entity "gt" not defined and no
default entity.

.Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the f

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
13. Error Line 22, Column 102: reference to entity "gt" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

.dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br
/> the fre

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
14. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

.iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the

15. Warning Line 22, Column 117: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

.ncyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free
encyclopedia

?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
16. Warning Line 22, Column 132: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

.sp;=>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free encyclopedia </a>

?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
17. Error Line 26, Column 105: document type does not allow element
"DIV" here.

.; color:#000;background:transparent;">

?

The element named above was found in a context where it is not
allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
reported error).
18. Error Line 29, Column 119: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

.ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
/>WikiPedia<.

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
19. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

.le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br

20. Error Line 29, Column 124: reference to entity "gt" for which no
system identifier could be generated.

.dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
/>WikiPedia</a>

?

This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
the previous message for further details.
21. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

.iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
/>WikiPedia<br /> the

22. Warning Line 29, Column 146: NET-enabling start-tag requires
SHORTTAG YES.

.edia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br />WikiPedia</a> ?

The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
'/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At 11:21 AM 11/7/2007 , Ian Leckie wrote:
>On Nov 7, 2007, at Wed, Nov 7 - 9:55AM, Mike Breiding wrote:
>
> > In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target -
> > although it
> > gets close...
> > http://epicroadtrip
<http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/>
s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/
> > index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
> > 0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg
> >
> > Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24
>
>You don't have heights and widths set on your images. It looks like
>Firefox scrolls to the correct spot initially, but then the layout of
>the page changes as all of the images draw in. If you reload the page
>with all of the images in your cache, it jumps to the correct spot.
>Set all of your heights and widths and I bet it will start working.

This *may* be it.
I filled in the missing heights and tried it.
FF jumps to the ID immediately but then scrolls back up as the images are
read.
I don't think I missed any heights.

With the cache cleared IE jumps to the ID and stays put as all the images
load.
Opera opens to the top of the page and then jumps to the ID.

Freaky...

-Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6177

From: loro <loro-spam01-@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:22 am
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

yastupidhoo

Send Email

Axel Berger wrote:
>But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
>use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
>reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

That can't be right. IE has been able to use an id as an anchor since
IE4 IIRC. Netscape 4 - that's another cup of tea.

Mike, I see no problem with your link in FF either.

Lotta

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6178

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:40 am
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

Send Email

At 07:22 PM 11/7/2007 , you wrote:

>Axel Berger wrote:
> >But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
> >use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
> >reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.
>
>That can't be right. IE has been able to use an id as an anchor since
>IE4 IIRC. Netscape 4 - that's another cup of tea.
>
>Mike, I see no problem with your link in FF either.
>
>Lotta


Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!

Thanks,
-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6179

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

absalom_nemini

Send Email

WV-Mike wrote:
> Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!

Both FF and Opera do the same thing here, they choose the anchor and
place it right at the top of the window. As you have anchored the
description beneath the image that image is not shown. Are you sure
that's what you want?

Today my IE 5.5 works as advertised, you're right loro. But it *only*
does so the first time. Scrolling to the top and clicking "Go" will
*not* go to the right place again.

Opera works as expected. It starts with the top of the page, waits until
everything is loaded, and then jumps to the anchor.

And I think I have found the problem with Firefox:
On opening the page it jumps right to the anchor. But when all those
images near the top without specified sizes are loaded the focus shifts
and is not restored. This behaviour can't be reproduced once the images
are cached which must be why we all could not see anything wrong. It
only happens once on an empty cache.

I believe, but am not sure, that some of these faults do not occur when
using a name="" instead of ID="".

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6180

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

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At 04:26 AM 11/8/2007 , you wrote:

>WV-Mike wrote:
> > Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!
>
>Both FF and Opera do the same thing here, they choose the anchor and
>place it right at the top of the window. As you have anchored the
>description beneath the image that image is not shown. Are you sure
>that's what you want?
>
>Today my IE 5.5 works as advertised, you're right loro. But it *only*
>does so the first time. Scrolling to the top and clicking "Go" will
>*not* go to the right place again.
>Opera works as expected. It starts with the top of the page, waits until
>everything is loaded, and then jumps to the anchor.
>
>And I think I have found the problem with Firefox:
>On opening the page it jumps right to the anchor. But when all those
>images near the top without specified sizes are loaded the focus shifts
>and is not restored. This behaviour can't be reproduced once the images
>are cached which must be why we all could not see anything wrong. It
>only happens once on an empty cache.
>
>I believe, but am not sure, that some of these faults do not occur when
>using a name="" instead of ID="". Axel


Greetings,
I added the image dimensions, but I see now I missed a few. I will go back
and fix these and then see what happens.
To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.

Thanks for the feedback.
-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6181

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 11:39 am
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

absalom_nemini

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WV-Mike wrote:
> To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.

I wouldn't if it was me. The decided advantage of the ID is, that you
can add it to any existing semantic tag, while the <a name needs to be a
separate unsemantic element. So a very good case can be made for getting
rid of it. Once you value backwards compatibility enough to retain it, I
can see no advatage whatever of an additional ID, unless you address it
through CSS or script.

Axel

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#6182

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

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At 06:39 AM 11/8/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
>WV-Mike wrote:
> > To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.
>
>I wouldn't if it was me. The decided advantage of the ID is, that you
>can add it to any existing semantic tag, while the <a name needs to be a
>separate unsemantic element. So a very good case can be made for getting
>rid of it. Once you value backwards compatibility enough to retain it, I
>can see no advatage whatever of an additional ID, unless you address it
>through CSS or script.

Hi Axel,
To be sure I know what you mean:

A semantic tag would be <p>, etc and
unsemantic element would be <img and ???

If I am understanding you correctly you are saying  ID is the one to use in
"all cases" since it can be using "anywhere".
Please excuse my generalizations.

-Mike

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#6183

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 12:49 pm
Subject: ALT text: WAS=> Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

mikebreiding

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At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , you wrote:
>N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
>tags. I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.

I wanted to revisit the necessity of using ALT "tags".

Reading this:
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_attribute
"Alternative text is especially useful in the following situations:

      * For people with low bandwidth connections, who may opt not to load
graphics
      * For people using handheld devices
      * For people with disabilities who use assistive technology, such as
refreshable braille displays or screen readers
      * For people using a pay per transferred data connection
      * Search engine optimization: most search engines interpret the
meaning of objects by analysing their alt attribute"

And this:
http://htmlhelp.com/feature/art3.htm
"Why should authors bother with ALT texts?

Well, from the fact that you're reading this article, I hope you already
think it's a good idea, but I have written some notes [3] on this topic.

Some of the biggest "casualties" on the information dirt-track are
documents whose authors didn't take the indexing robots seriously. Every
step that you take towards text-mode accessibility is, at the same time, a
step towards being friendly to those indexing robots, so (whether or not
you care about minority audiences such as the blind or users of text mode
terminals) I'd say it's in your own interest to keep text-mode
accessibility in mind. "
----

These gave me some food for thought about not using ALT text in my pages.
My previous post on this was a justification for not using them because I
felt all the info needed was in the text comments, quotes and links.
This seemed to me to make using ALT text superfluous.

But, search engine optimization does seem to be reason enough to use ALT text.

I wish I had a better idea how useful sight impaired users find ALT tag info.

I can't end this without stating another reason I stopped using ALT text.
Laziness.
All my pages have lots of images and I just never seemed to get around to
adding the ALT text because it was too much trouble and slowed the already
sluggish pace at which I work.

-Mike

p.s. Is the "N.B:" above an abbreviation for nota bene, a latin expression
meaning "note well"?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NB
I confess to being ignorant as to it's meaning.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6184

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

absalom_nemini

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WV-Mike wrote:
> A semantic tag would be <p>, etc and
> unsemantic element would be <img and ???

No, a semantic element is one, that tells you something about the
content and must or should be there irrespective of layout like:
this is a paragraph
this is a heading
this is an image
this is a table (of tabular data)
this is a list
and also this is a link to something else

Unsemantic are all elements that are there for reasons of layout rather
than content, i.e. all DIVs and SPANs, tables if they're there for
layout, and of course all deprecated nonsense like FONT or CENTER (I
sometimes use the latter to cater for browsers without styleshets).
Internal anchors are a borderline case, but no doubt an ID attribute
inside a tag, that needs to be there anyway, makes for cleaner code.

In HTML I'm often pulled both ways by the two important rules I try to
comply to:
1) Always write totally standards conformant code and shun anything
deprecated or proprietary.
2) Never use anything newer than you absolutely have to to achieve your
goal. Always be compatible to the oldest version of anything that your
content allows.

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#6185

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: ALT text: WAS=> Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF2.0.9

absalom_nemini

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WV-Mike wrote:
> But, search engine optimization does seem to be reason enough to use ALT text.

There is one exception, when I only write ALT="Bild" or ALT="Image" and
that's when I make an image plus it's caption into a table (imho this
makes it genuine tabular data belonging together, not just layout).
Otherwise I make TITLE the same as ALT so anyone can get a short
description of what exactly is depicted.
I always write an ALT and never specify sizes, as this combination works
best for viewers with graphics turned off.
I use Netscape 4.8 without CSS and with graphics off to evaluate the
accessibility of my code. It is not what a blind user gets, but it comes
as near as is quickly and easily achievable.

> p.s. Is the "N.B:" above an abbreviation for nota bene, a latin
> expression meaning "note well"?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NB
> I confess to being ignorant as to it's meaning.

That's where it comes from, but the use in German is more a "by the way"
or "speaking of which" and the English wiktionary says "used to add an
aside or warning to a text".

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#6186

From: loro <loro-spam01-@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: ALT text: WAS=> Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF2.0.9

yastupidhoo

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>There is one exception, when I only write ALT="Bild" or ALT="Image" and
>that's when I make an image plus it's caption into a table

Why? Why not use an empty alt? If the alt text isn't needed, well, it
isn't needed. Who benefits from being told an image is an image?

>Otherwise I make TITLE the same as ALT so anyone can get a short
>description of what exactly is depicted.

Isn't title alone enough for that?

>I always write an ALT and never specify sizes, as this combination works
>best for viewers with graphics turned off.
>I use Netscape 4.8 without CSS and with graphics off to evaluate the
>accessibility of my code. It is not what a blind user gets, but it comes
>as near as is quickly and easily achievable.

Blind users would get a lot of "image" read out to them...

Lotta

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#6187

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: ALT text: WAS=> Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work inFF2.0.9

absalom_nemini

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loro wrote:
> Isn't title alone enough for that?

For that yes, but the ALT tag is needed too and e.g. IE treats ALT as it
should treat TITLE.

> Who benefits from being told an image is an image?
> Blind users would get a lot of "image" read out to them...

Well for one thing the ALT is compulsory in the standard. And then in
this paticular case, i.e. image and caption placed into a table
together, the caption on its own makes much more sense when you know it
is not part of the ongoing text but the caption to an image. I do not
think one single word read out before the caption is that much of a
hassle.
And on top of that it might just be of interest that this is not just a
spacer or some other bit of layout but an actual image that's part of
the content.

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#6188

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:14 pm
Subject: DOCTYPES and content-type

mikebreiding

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The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.

I have this for my DOCTYPE:
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

And this for Content-type:
<meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">

Is that OK?

Or is this preferrable:
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

Is there a relationship between the DOCTYPE and Content-type.

I thought I had this straight at one time, but...

Thanks,
-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6189

From: Marcelo Listas <mcblista@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

mcbastos

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WV-Mike wrote:
> The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.
>
> I have this for my DOCTYPE:
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
>
>
This is fine, as long as your page DOES validate as HTML 4.01 strict.
> And this for Content-type:
> <meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
>
> Is that OK?
>
> Or is this preferrable:
> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
>
>
Both are correct. Which one to use depends on whether you are using
UTF-8 to encode "high" characters (such as "smart quotes") in your page.
There are other possible values, too -- although they might be less
widely supported.

But using <meta http-equiv> is a kinda fallback and a bit of a hack. The
recommended way to indicate encoding is by means of the HTTP headers.
Those are set up in your web server software.

> Is there a relationship between the DOCTYPE and Content-type.
>
>
Not really.

Marcelo

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6190

From: Cary Driscoll <carydriscoll@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

eidirsceoil

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With NoteTab you should use

charset=iso-8859-1



WV-Mike  wrote:

The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#6191

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:48 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

mikebreiding

Send Email

At 03:36 PM 11/8/2007 , you wrote:
>With NoteTab you should use
>charset=iso-8859-1

As in: "Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"  ?
-mb


>WV-Mike wrote:
>The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6192

From: "Corl DeLuna" <corl@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

corl_deluna

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Hi Mike,

I use:

<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

Best,
Corl

   _____

From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of WV-Mike
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:48 PM
To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type



At 03:36 PM 11/8/2007 , you wrote:
>With NoteTab you should use
>charset=iso-8859-1

As in: "Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" ?
-mb

>WV-Mike wrote:
>The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6193

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:00 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

absalom_nemini

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WV-Mike wrote:
> Is there a relationship between the DOCTYPE and Content-type.

No the two are completely independant of one another.

As to your choices:
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

This is fine but it tends to be a bit fundamentalist about separation of
content and layout. I agree with the principle, but I also hold
backwards compatibility and non-exclusion highly. Thus my own choice is
4.01 Transitional with the odd ALIGN="RIGHT" or something thrown in. If
you declare "strict" then don't forget to validate and make sure you
abide by it.

So I use
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

This is what the W3C themselves say:
> Authors should use the Strict DTD unless they need the
> presentation control for user agents that don't (adequately)
> support style sheets.

> <meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">

That's the one I use myself. Again the 127 characters of the basic
standardized ASCII are the most compatible choice. As an American you
have less trouble with than than we with our accents and umlauts, but be
careful: You can directly type several extended characters right from
your keyboard. Doing so will invalidate your page. I often get an � or �
or � slipped in that I only find with validation. To make things easy
for yourself, ands especially if there may be others editing your
content, you should declare the native local character set of your
computer. For a site I prepared not for myself alone I used:

> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type"
>    CONTENT="text/html; charset=windows-1252">

> Or is this preferrable:
> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">

It would be if that is your native charset. In my own W98 it's not, but
I don't know about XP. If you declare UTF-8 but use 1252 you're in real
trouble.

Hope this helps
		 Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6194

From: WV-Mike <notetab@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

mikebreiding

Send Email

At 03:36 PM 11/8/2007 , you wrote:

>WV-Mike wrote:
> > The more I read about this ( again), the more confused I get.
> >
> > I have this for my DOCTYPE:
> > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
> >
>
"<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd>http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
> >
> >
>This is fine, as long as your page DOES validate as HTML 4.01 strict.

Except for two errors it does: http://tinyurl.com/yokfja
The target="_blank" I do not want to change.
The  "<li id="currentpage">" is from the PHP include menu based
on:http://www.alistapart.com/articles/keepingcurrent/
I have yet to figure out what to about this.

> > And this for Content-type:
> > <meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
> >
> > Is that OK?
> >
> > Or is this preferrable:
> > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
> >
> >
>Both are correct. Which one to use depends on whether you are using
>UTF-8 to encode "high" characters (such as "smart quotes") in your page.
>There are other possible values, too -- although they might be less
>widely supported.
>
>But using <meta http-equiv> is a kinda fallback and a bit of a hack. The
>recommended way to indicate encoding is by means of the HTTP headers.
>Those are set up in your web server software.

I checked the Control Panel for my provider and it was not readily apparent
to me where this might be done.
I did some googling on "indicate encoding is by means of the HTTP headers".
No luck.

I downloaded the WEb Hosting manual and searched for "HTTP headers" and
"encoding". No luck.

> > Is there a relationship between the DOCTYPE and Content-type.
> >
> >
>Not really.  Marcelo

Thanks,
-Mike

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

#6195

From: Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...>
Date: Thu Nov 8, 2007 9:05 pm
Subject: Re: [NH] DOCTYPES and content-type

absalom_nemini

Send Email

Cary Driscoll wrote:
> With NoteTab you should use
> charset=iso-8859-1

Careful here! 8859-1 and Win-1252 are nearly identical, but not quite.
The most frequent error from this misdeclaration is the euro sign �. So
this will be less of a problem in the US than over here, but still it is
easiest to declare what you actually use and best (imho) to declare and
use US-ASCII only.

Axel

Reply | Messages in this Topic (33)

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