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Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: [oil_from_algae] Please Vote Here   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #11118 of 11661 |
EROI

--- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "bhans@..." <bhans@...> wrote:
>
> I find it curious how people have clung to the same ideal of 'biofuels' with
algae as they did with ethanol without the proper analysis of simple sets of
baseline assumptions like 'does this algae energy system make more energy than
it uses'. IMO, its the most important question to start with.
>
> Brian
>
Just a comment from a newbie in this group:

In my view this would be a a perpetual process - thus impossible from physics
point of view. What one could call for, though, is the expectation that the
value of the energy you produce in teh process is worth more the value of the
energy you supply. There are quite convincing examples given already.




Thu Jul 2, 2009 3:45 pm

mruehrig
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Message #11118 of 11661 |
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Ok false, I will bite... My professional opinion comes from my years of Botany, renewable energy and catalysts research expertise. It is also formed from...
bhans@...
earthmimic
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Jun 30, 2009
10:25 pm

Brain, I agree with your scepticism about all the PR being put out. Everyone talks about what they are going to do "real soon now" not what they have done. ...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jun 30, 2009
11:07 pm

Hi Brian and Bobby, My name is Jody, (or jfarris73@yahoo).  I don't know why it shows up as 'false' in this group.  But anyway.. I am not sure where, or...
false
jfarris73
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Jun 30, 2009
11:57 pm

Jody, Dr. Benneman told me he only worked with Fat(lipids) in the cooler area of Eastern New Mexico. From My lab, the Petroleum oils from B.Braunii( like c30...
lendlabs
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Jul 1, 2009
1:09 am

Jody, Dr. Benemann is a recognized expert. His opinion is just an opinion, but it is based on being involved in the largest research project ever on using ...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 1, 2009
1:55 am

Hey Bobby, its Brian but thanks for the complement :) If you re-read his comment, it says 'even with aggressive assumption about biological productivity...'...
bhans@...
earthmimic
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Jul 1, 2009
12:22 am

Brian, Sorry for the misspelling. We are nowhere near the reality of anything. We don't need to alter biological productivity - almost everyone agrees that it...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 1, 2009
2:58 am

Bobby, Materials and energy balances are important to any process flow diagram for several reasons.  However, your point is well taken.  From a standpoint of...
false
jfarris73
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Jul 1, 2009
11:42 am

Jody, Right - there are lots of processes we need that are not energy positive. Bobby ... -- Toward freedom, Bobby Yates Emory...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 2, 2009
2:06 am

... Just a comment from a newbie in this group: In my view this would be a a perpetual process - thus impossible from physics point of view. What one could...
Manfred
mruehrig
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Jul 2, 2009
3:49 pm

Hi Jody, Im glad your name isnt False cuz that would have proven to be a tough childhood. Can I ask which piece of data specifically has come across your eyes...
bhans@...
earthmimic
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Jul 1, 2009
12:28 am

Bobby, The last email I got from Dr. John Benemann,PhD he was with his Line in theory but still have a ways to go to be practical.. We have talked about this...
lendlabs
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Jul 1, 2009
1:32 am

M&E balances are crucial in determining the sensitivity of the economic return. It is the framework along with unit costs by which viability can be...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 1, 2009
1:48 pm

This wasn't about this group, but for some reason oil_from_algae came to mind when I read it. ...perhaps because there is so little real experience? …. most...
George Peters
ibgp3
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Jul 1, 2009
2:48 pm

George, Good point - you left out the inexperienced trying to scam people. Bobby ... -- Toward freedom, Bobby Yates Emory George, Good point - you left out the...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 2, 2009
2:34 am

Alex, You are correct - there are absurd claims being made. I fear that there are lots of scam artists trying to follow whatever is hot this month to see if...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 2, 2009
2:31 am

Bobby, The difference in the coal example is that you do not have to account for the production of energy, you are taking about only conversion of energy. And...
bhans@...
earthmimic
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Jul 1, 2009
7:41 pm

Hans, I don't think you got my point. Let's say we find out that if we keep the algae ponds at 100F, the algae grows real well. So we have to burn lots of ...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 2, 2009
3:35 am

Bobby, Yes..but heat is a waste product of electric power as well as the CO2.. Also they could make the raceways on top of the used mines as they dig and...
lendlabs
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Jul 2, 2009
5:39 am

Even worse - experienced scammers screwing inexperienced scammees. Quite a few of them in the algae area. In fact some of us may have fun compiling a list of...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 2, 2009
3:39 pm

Bobby - exactly. Once we understand the M&E balances, we are in a position to more accurately assess the viability, recognizing full well that different energy...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 2, 2009
3:54 pm

Alex, All reasonable questions for an investor to ask a corporation. But remember that if a backyard inventor is not able to answer your questions, it does not...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 5, 2009
12:15 am

Bobby: But the backyard inventor has to have some inkling about this so he does not end up misleading herself or himself. All too often I hear of some...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 5, 2009
6:42 pm

Alex, Agreed - before Esso builds a thousand acres of algae ponds, someone needs run tests and do these studies. My concern is that as soon as someone has a...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 5, 2009
9:54 pm

Questions do not necessarily stifle. In fact they nay help by identifying a path to follow. Studies need to be done under controlled and transparent conditions...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 6, 2009
3:46 pm

Alex, I don't disagree, but the attitude should be - what you have done is great, how can we help you validate it - not - what you have done is not valid ...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 7, 2009
2:57 am

Bobby: I have no problem with that approach. But I would not waste my time if the invention was violating fundamental energy balance and mass balance...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 7, 2009
2:00 pm

Alex, I think we are talking about two different things. I am talking about a backyard experimenter who has solved one portion of the oil from algae puzzle. I...
Bobby Yates Emory
liberty1_27606
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Jul 7, 2009
10:59 pm

Bobby, I am not sure we are talking about two different things. Even tinkerers such as you are describing need to at least satisfy themselves and others that...
Alex Markin
maskedinvestor
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Jul 7, 2009
11:38 pm
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