I'm sure there will be an immediate 0.21 tomorrow, but I wanted to get
a build for those who are still in the loop to try before I invite more
people in. It's really important to verify that this works for the core
people first. So please read the notes carefully, and let me know how
goes. Post to the list, and report problems in 1-2-3 format. Thanks.

http://support.opml.org/stories/storyReader$17

Looking forward to hearing how it goes.

Dave

I'll add a b1, b2 indication to the release packages to indicate build
sequence through the day. .

I'm testing the fixes for the shellmenu.c asserts now.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
To: <opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:18 PM
Subject: [opmlsupport] Attn DavidLu: Problem with the 6/6/05 build


> Dave, first we need to have some kind of build numbering system, at
> some point we're going to do more than one build in a day and won't
> have a way to refer to it.
>
> Today's build has a problem.
>
> I open dotOpml.root (a new tool database, more on that later), and
> change a cell in the object database (dotOpmlInfo.version) and then
> type Control-S to save. A dialog appears saying: "Assertio9n failed
> in shellmenu.c, at line 968. Expression: false. Abort Retry Ignore. I
> click on Ignore. The program continues. The change appears to have
> been saved.
>
> I try to do the same by choosing Save from the File menu, but the
> command is dimmed.
>
> My guess is that something broke in the changes to the File menu.
>
> I'm reverting to the previous version until I get a new build from
> you.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dave, first we need to have some kind of build numbering system, at
some point we're going to do more than one build in a day and won't
have a way to refer to it.

Today's build has a problem.

I open dotOpml.root (a new tool database, more on that later), and
change a cell in the object database (dotOpmlInfo.version) and then
type Control-S to save. A dialog appears saying: "Assertio9n failed
in shellmenu.c, at line 968. Expression: false. Abort Retry Ignore. I
click on Ignore. The program continues. The change appears to have
been saved.

I try to do the same by choosing Save from the File menu, but the
command is dimmed.

My guess is that something broke in the changes to the File menu.

I'm reverting to the previous version until I get a new build from
you.

Dave

I think I've got a Win Debug release ready.

  I had most everything ready before I got on the plane from Omaha
yesterday. The hardest part was finding out what code was responsible
for generating the message generated by "Update opml.root". I couldn't
find anything in the kernel that generated the message.

Ends up it's the system.temp.update script that is responsible. That
depends on the settings for user.rootUpdates.servers.["Frontier"]. The
script uses the server name recorded there because there is no table
entry for "opml" in user.rootUpdates.servers which is what the script
looks for if you attempt to update opml.root.

Once that opml table entry in user.rootUpdate.servers is defined in
opml.root, we'll most likely be off to the races.

Tell me about MacBird dialogs. Is that something outside of the
Frontier Kernel or is it something that is already baked in?

--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Winer" <dave@s...> wrote:
> There's a new menu, called OPML.Org.
>
> It's the place where all the neat groupware and publishing stuff is
> going. But the top item in the menu is all business. It manages
your
> identity. If you're not registered it registers you. If you are,
but
> not logged in, it logs you in. And it logs you off when you want a
> private party.
>
> To do this I had to learn how to do HTML dialogs in Frontier/Win.
> Dave Lu, you'll be able to do this on the Mac using MacBird
dialogs.
> So the MDI window requirement is now gone (but I still want to find
a
> good use for it, so that people at MS have something to kvell
about,
> and also because darn it, I like the feature).
>
> Anyway, next thing is to do a full review of the UI, and await the
> new kernel build, and once that's ready, to do another release.
This
> one will have all the special bits in a separate Tool database for
> easy updating, so it will also serve as a reference release,
> something I've wanted for a while, so I can give people neat server
> apps I've come up with and an easy way to deply.
>
> Dave

There's a new menu, called OPML.Org.

It's the place where all the neat groupware and publishing stuff is
going. But the top item in the menu is all business. It manages your
identity. If you're not registered it registers you. If you are, but
not logged in, it logs you in. And it logs you off when you want a
private party.

To do this I had to learn how to do HTML dialogs in Frontier/Win.
Dave Lu, you'll be able to do this on the Mac using MacBird dialogs.
So the MDI window requirement is now gone (but I still want to find a
good use for it, so that people at MS have something to kvell about,
and also because darn it, I like the feature).

Anyway, next thing is to do a full review of the UI, and await the
new kernel build, and once that's ready, to do another release. This
one will have all the special bits in a separate Tool database for
easy updating, so it will also serve as a reference release,
something I've wanted for a while, so I can give people neat server
apps I've come up with and an easy way to deply.

Dave

Problem: The Main menu came back the next time I launched the OPML
editor.

A little bit of exploration showed this was being done by
menus.buildSuitesSubmenu, which is being called by
startup.startupscript.

Solution: Make the call conditional on it not being the OPML editor.

Here's the MDI window today with the shrunken menubar.

http://images.scripting.com/archiveScriptingCom/2005/06/04/screen.gif

Dave

It goes into mothballs. I moved it to userland.bookmarkmenu. If you
want to bring it back, move it to user.menus.bookmarkmenu and it will
re-appear. Perhaps at some point in the future it can be made network-
aware. For now, it isn't, and I never use it, and as it is currently
programmed it is useless to outliner users. Dave

As I continued my relentless march through the menus, from left to
right, my next challenge was the Main menu. The question -- is there
anything of value there for the outliner user? The short answer is no.

At first I thought Find+Replace would be a problem, but then I noted
that they had already been moved to the Edit menu. Oy. So there were
*two* F+R sub-menus. That's one too many, of course.

However, there are commands in that menu that are essential to people
who program in this environment, like me, for example, so I created a
new Tool called programmersMenu.root which simply contains the
former "Main" menu, and a brief readme outline.

This can evolve separately, however must not break existing users
like myself who depend on keystrokes not changing.

However, there are a fairly large number of shortcuts used by
commands in this menu that may need to be made available to outliner
users. I know this sounds confusing, but this is where the art of
outlining design comes in.

Needless to say the OPML editor I have here is much simpler than the
one you have there, for now. ;->

Dave

Thanks for the quick confirmation Dave. I feel some momentum building
and I like the feeling! Dave


--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...>
wrote:
> Dave,
>
>   I'm in Omaha for a wedding. I'll be able to do this tomorrow and
Monday. I
> have a Mac kernel running that still needs some work to bring
parity with
> the Windows kernel.
>
> Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Winer" <dave@s...>
> To: <opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:24 AM
> Subject: [opmlsupport] Attn DavidLu: Kernel level changes in
opml.exe
>
>
> > The following changes need to be made in the kernel:
> >
> > Remove: File menu/Open Manila Site
> > Remove: File menu/Save As HTML
> > Remove: File menu/Save As Plain Text
> > Change: File menu/Update radio.root to Update opml.root.
> >
> > Also the dialog that appears in the last command talks about
> > userland.com server. Must change to be configured by the update
table.
> >
> > Remove: Edit menu/Open notepad
> >
> > More changes probably coming shortly.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Dave,

   I'm in Omaha for a wedding. I'll be able to do this tomorrow and Monday. I
have a Mac kernel running that still needs some work to bring parity with
the Windows kernel.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
To: <opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: [opmlsupport] Attn DavidLu: Kernel level changes in opml.exe


> The following changes need to be made in the kernel:
>
> Remove: File menu/Open Manila Site
> Remove: File menu/Save As HTML
> Remove: File menu/Save As Plain Text
> Change: File menu/Update radio.root to Update opml.root.
>
> Also the dialog that appears in the last command talks about
> userland.com server. Must change to be configured by the update table.
>
> Remove: Edit menu/Open notepad
>
> More changes probably coming shortly.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The following changes need to be made in the kernel:

Remove: File menu/Open Manila Site
Remove: File menu/Save As HTML
Remove: File menu/Save As Plain Text
Change: File menu/Update radio.root to Update opml.root.

Also the dialog that appears in the last command talks about
userland.com server. Must change to be configured by the update table.

Remove: Edit menu/Open notepad

More changes probably coming shortly.

Dave

I've started a new directory.

http://directory.podcatch.com/

It's a directory of podcatchers.

A burgeoning market!

Dave

Here's a quick update on the progress.

1. I'm back at work on the OPML Editor.

2. First mini-project is to separate out the new bits into a Tool
called dotOpml.root. It's like dot-net, except it's OPML. ;->

3. This root will update independently of all other files. It will
contain code only so it can be updated wholesale without breakage.

4. There is a companion database called dotOpmlData.root.

5. So I will do a core release in a day or so that will serve as a
reference release not just for this project, but for server-side
projects as well.

That's it for now.

Dave

I used the recipe provided by Apple for making an XML-RPC call using
AppleEvents (see
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleScript/Conceptual/soapXMLR
PC/chapter4/chapter_4_section_2.html) to write code which transmits an
OPML outline synthesized by my music editor to the OPML Editor. I found
when I transmitted the content of OPML files that previously could be
read properly by OE, when using this AppleEvent method, the OPML that
came across the wire could not be successfully interpreted by OE.

I discovered that Apple was encoding the double quote characters used
to delimit numerical parameters in the OPML using the "
descriptor. When I did a string.replaceAll in my RPC handler to
change '"' to '"', that transformed the OPML back to a form that
could be interpreted.

This message serves to document the oddity for others who try this.

I did a demo of the OPML editor today for Rebecca MacKinnon, one of my
former colleagues at Harvard, and a huge evangelist for blogging and
RSS (as a user, of course) and she was blown away, and started going on
about how it was going to revolutionize knowledge. So she'll be the
fourth tester when the next release is ready. She's a Windows user.

http://rconversation.blogs.com/

Dave

woo, now that's what I call granular!

I love it!

the sheer extensibility of opml lends itself to this kind of thing
perfectly.

As I said before, (did I?) I used to 'do' a database driven SMIL 1.0
system called 'Smibase' which, while supporting synchronised text,
images etc on a timeline (yay) was only truly supported by RealPlayer.
(booo)

here's some old info, but I dont think the images will show (or indeed
the db driven smil (not static renders, though the system could do
that too) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.smibase.com

I should get around to reinstalling a version of it somewhere soon.

since joining my current place of work (auntie) I've been busy doing
similar things, but with Flash, shockwave and some custom xml (which I
can now see is opml) see http://bbc.co.uk/iraqcons
and (the Bafta award winning ;) )http://www.bbc.co.uk/iraqcons/celeb/

More video led sync ideas here:
http://www.blugg.com/stuff/video_player_sync4.html

also a buggy test thingy here : http://www.blugg.com/stuff/tree1.html

GANTRY: great word for it :)

I'm about to try and put together a flashanimated-primer type-thing to
explain rss and basic opml to people over here - maybe get it done
within the (so-called) '60 days' and launch in writerss.com ,
readerss.com, listenerss.com etc.. (i dont have them *all ;) ) -
connections ( like gantrys) are what i se sprouting all over the globe
now - i we have a nice simple way to control it, it's gonna be very
very powerful as a network itself, i think


much much more to discuss and share ...


--- In opmlsupport@...
om, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...> wrote:
> Howdy Kosso!
>
>    The SongTrellis Editor has a very fine-grained knowledge of
> everything that exists in its musical scores. It knows the duration
> of every note and its relative position in time from the beginning of
> the piece. To be able to do its layout of notes in the score it has
> to know how all of the notes lie within bar lines. It has algorithms
> which can locate the boundaries of phrases within any voice of the
> score. The user can label the score to mark intros, repeats,
> alternate endings and codas, so it also knows how notes are framed by
> these larger structures. Take a gander at
> http://www.songtrellis.com/learnmore for a more complete description
> of what that Editor is about.
>
>   When users wants to impose an outline view on the score, they will
> just execute a command on a SongTrellis menu which will scan all of
> the different structures it keeps track of, transcribe that info into
> subheads of an OPML outline and attach a type declaration to those
> subheads that will tell the OPML Editor that SongTrellis navigation
> information is recorded with those subheads. Along with that, it
> records the timecode, which locates the beginning time and duration
> of the music that the outline subhead describes. When this
> transcription process concludes, it makes an xml-rpc call to the OPML
> Editor which transmits the generated OPML over to OE and causes the
> ouline to open over there and

causes the OE window to come frontmost.
>
>   The user can browse around in the outline, find some part of the
> score that they would like to listen to, select across outline
> subheads that describe the music, right click and select Play from
> the contextual menu that appears. Play will appear on that contextual
> menu because I will have defined a nodetype declaration in opml.root
> that declares how outline levels that contain SongTrellis navigation
> info should be handled. A script registered in the nodetype to handle
> Play commands that are directed toward SongTrellis will fetch the
> timecode attributes in the selected outline levels, and send commands
> back to SongTrellis ordering it to play the specified selection.
>
>   So to sum up, SongTrellis users don't do any OPML markup in the
> score, they just run a command which transcribes score info into
> OPML.
>
>  The beauty of the nodetype stuff that Dave W introduced in Radio
> comes from the fact that users could also do their own timecode
> markup in an OPML outline that annotates a different media type.  New
> nodetypes could be defined that know how to talk to Windows Media
> Player, RealPlayer or QuickTime, so that given the timecodes recorded
> in the outline different time slices of media players can be played
> under the control of OE.
>
>   These navigation outlines would be a kind of gantry that can wrap
> around all of the different kinds of media available on the web, and
> would allow users to inspect every second of a performance if they
> want to get that close to it. Musicians like me, film students and
> other kinds of fanatics about favorite artworks, feel compelled to
> study media in excruciating detail. These kinds of outlines viewed
> with a proper outlining tool, such as OE, would easily enable that.
>
> Now that I'm seeing that it pretty easy to lash up cross connections
> between OE and SongTrellis, I think I can let users do special kinds
> of markup which can be sent back to SongTrellis via XML-RPC to be
> stored with the original score. If I wanted to specify bubbles that
> would popup as a score plays in SongTrellis, or wanted to specify
> when a new line of karaoke lyric should popup, it would feel pretty
> natural to do the markup in the outline and have these new
> annotations sent back to SongTrellis, which can handle the scheduling
> and display when a score is played.
>
> I'm pretty sure that outlining makes lots of sense in a musical
> setting, but I never would have been able to tolerate the time
> necessary to write an outline view for SongTrellis. The nodetype
> stuff lets me integrate nicely with Dave's outliners and create a
> whole lot of neat stuff that previously seemed impossible to
> accomplish.
>
> > I need at least a rightclick widget in the editor to allow me to
> > 'Add/Edit Attribute', which would be the same as the 'Add Link...'
> > option, but with two text fields and a dropdown list of existing
> > custom attributes, to make it easier for subsequent data input.
> >
>
> This is fairly easy in both the OPML Editor and Radio Userland. For
> every different type that labels an  outline heading, there will be a
> nodetype defined which describes the contextual menu that shows up
> when you right click. Your "Add/Edit Attribute" command would be
> added to that menu and can presumably get as fancy as UserTalk
> allows.
>
> >Your stuff here reminds me of the SMIL1.0 synchronised systems I used
> > to work on.
>
> I wonder if those specialized sync marking systems could be
> reexpressed as navigation outlines, providing benefits to users who
> would find them easier to use and understand and to developers who
> can take advantage of complete pre-written outlining system that can
> be applied to many different kinds of tasks.
>
> --- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "podbat" <podbat@g...> wrote:
> > Hi David! Kosso here.
> >
> > These look really interesting. I don't know too much about your
> > SongTrellis product/system, but I think I get it.
> >
> > What do you sue to edit your OPML - particularly to customise the
> > attributes?
> >
> > I'm about to get a MySql database of mine to spit out OPML files,
> so I
> > could naturally create a form interface to build the data (in html
> or
> > flash) and do the attributes I need. But I'm interested in how you
> do it.
> >
> >
> > Your stuff here reminds me of the SMIL1.0 synchronised systems I
> used
> > to work on. And also of the ideas I've been adding the ability
> > synchronise events in a media stream to trigger other things, such
> as
> > images and text changes etc. (as SMIL can). This could also be used
> a
> > production tool to submit to and renderer of a certain format for
> any
> > platform/profile - much like EDF (Edit Descision Lists) for video
> > editing. I suppose it just the same for music composoition - like
> > Cubase/Acid/etc.
> >
> >
> > I need at least a rightclick widget in the editor to allow me to
> > 'Add/Edit Attribute', which would be the same as the 'Add Link...'
> > option, but with two text fields and a dropdown list of existing
> > custom attributes, to make it easier for subsequent data input.
> >
> >
> > should this be easy to add to the app?
> >
> > --- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...>
> wrote:
> > > I've just posted example OPMLs that could be used to navigate
> around in
> > > several kinds of media. There are examples that demonstrate
> navigation
> > > through an audio program (like a podcast), a musical score, a
> film and
> > > an audio book.
> > >
> > > I noticed that Yahoo flattened the example outlines that I posted
> to
> > > illustrate my first postings. If you check out these file
> postings you
> > > can see them displayed properly when you read them with your copy
> of
> > > the OPML Editor.

Howdy Kosso!

    The SongTrellis Editor has a very fine-grained knowledge of
everything that exists in its musical scores. It knows the duration
of every note and its relative position in time from the beginning of
the piece. To be able to do its layout of notes in the score it has
to know how all of the notes lie within bar lines. It has algorithms
which can locate the boundaries of phrases within any voice of the
score. The user can label the score to mark intros, repeats,
alternate endings and codas, so it also knows how notes are framed by
these larger structures. Take a gander at
http://www.songtrellis.com/learnmore for a more complete description
of what that Editor is about.

   When users wants to impose an outline view on the score, they will
just execute a command on a SongTrellis menu which will scan all of
the different structures it keeps track of, transcribe that info into
subheads of an OPML outline and attach a type declaration to those
subheads that will tell the OPML Editor that SongTrellis navigation
information is recorded with those subheads. Along with that, it
records the timecode, which locates the beginning time and duration
of the music that the outline subhead describes. When this
transcription process concludes, it makes an xml-rpc call to the OPML
Editor which transmits the generated OPML over to OE and causes the
ouline to open over there and causes the OE window to come frontmost.

   The user can browse around in the outline, find some part of the
score that they would like to listen to, select across outline
subheads that describe the music, right click and select Play from
the contextual menu that appears. Play will appear on that contextual
menu because I will have defined a nodetype declaration in opml.root
that declares how outline levels that contain SongTrellis navigation
info should be handled. A script registered in the nodetype to handle
Play commands that are directed toward SongTrellis will fetch the
timecode attributes in the selected outline levels, and send commands
back to SongTrellis ordering it to play the specified selection.

   So to sum up, SongTrellis users don't do any OPML markup in the
score, they just run a command which transcribes score info into
OPML.

  The beauty of the nodetype stuff that Dave W introduced in Radio
comes from the fact that users could also do their own timecode
markup in an OPML outline that annotates a different media type.  New
nodetypes could be defined that know how to talk to Windows Media
Player, RealPlayer or QuickTime, so that given the timecodes recorded
in the outline different time slices of media players can be played
under the control of OE.

   These navigation outlines would be a kind of gantry that can wrap
around all of the different kinds of media available on the web, and
would allow users to inspect every second of a performance if they
want to get that close to it. Musicians like me, film students and
other kinds of fanatics about favorite artworks, feel compelled to
study media in excruciating detail. These kinds of outlines viewed
with a proper outlining tool, such as OE, would easily enable that.

Now that I'm seeing that it pretty easy to lash up cross connections
between OE and SongTrellis, I think I can let users do special kinds
of markup which can be sent back to SongTrellis via XML-RPC to be
stored with the original score. If I wanted to specify bubbles that
would popup as a score plays in SongTrellis, or wanted to specify
when a new line of karaoke lyric should popup, it would feel pretty
natural to do the markup in the outline and have these new
annotations sent back to SongTrellis, which can handle the scheduling
and display when a score is played.

I'm pretty sure that outlining makes lots of sense in a musical
setting, but I never would have been able to tolerate the time
necessary to write an outline view for SongTrellis. The nodetype
stuff lets me integrate nicely with Dave's outliners and create a
whole lot of neat stuff that previously seemed impossible to
accomplish.

> I need at least a rightclick widget in the editor to allow me to
> 'Add/Edit Attribute', which would be the same as the 'Add Link...'
> option, but with two text fields and a dropdown list of existing
> custom attributes, to make it easier for subsequent data input.
>

This is fairly easy in both the OPML Editor and Radio Userland. For
every different type that labels an  outline heading, there will be a
nodetype defined which describes the contextual menu that shows up
when you right click. Your "Add/Edit Attribute" command would be
added to that menu and can presumably get as fancy as UserTalk
allows.

>Your stuff here reminds me of the SMIL1.0 synchronised systems I used
> to work on.

I wonder if those specialized sync marking systems could be
reexpressed as navigation outlines, providing benefits to users who
would find them easier to use and understand and to developers who
can take advantage of complete pre-written outlining system that can
be applied to many different kinds of tasks.

--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "podbat" <podbat@g...> wrote:
> Hi David! Kosso here.
>
> These look really interesting. I don't know too much about your
> SongTrellis product/system, but I think I get it.
>
> What do you sue to edit your OPML - particularly to customise the
> attributes?
>
> I'm about to get a MySql database of mine to spit out OPML files,
so I
> could naturally create a form interface to build the data (in html
or
> flash) and do the attributes I need. But I'm interested in how you
do it.
>
>
> Your stuff here reminds me of the SMIL1.0 synchronised systems I
used
> to work on. And also of the ideas I've been adding the ability
> synchronise events in a media stream to trigger other things, such
as
> images and text changes etc. (as SMIL can). This could also be used
a
> production tool to submit to and renderer of a certain format for
any
> platform/profile - much like EDF (Edit Descision Lists) for video
> editing. I suppose it just the same for music composoition - like
> Cubase/Acid/etc.
>
>
> I need at least a rightclick widget in the editor to allow me to
> 'Add/Edit Attribute', which would be the same as the 'Add Link...'
> option, but with two text fields and a dropdown list of existing
> custom attributes, to make it easier for subsequent data input.
>
>
> should this be easy to add to the app?
>
> --- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...>
wrote:
> > I've just posted example OPMLs that could be used to navigate
around in
> > several kinds of media. There are examples that demonstrate
navigation
> > through an audio program (like a podcast), a musical score, a
film and
> > an audio book.
> >
> > I noticed that Yahoo flattened the example outlines that I posted
to
> > illustrate my first postings. If you check out these file
postings you
> > can see them displayed properly when you read them with your copy
of
> > the OPML Editor.

Hi David! Kosso here.

These look really interesting. I don't know too much about your
SongTrellis product/system, but I think I get it.

What do you sue to edit your OPML - particularly to customise the
attributes?

I'm about to get a MySql database of mine to spit out OPML files, so I
could naturally create a form interface to build the data (in html or
flash) and do the attributes I need. But I'm interested in how you do it.


Your stuff here reminds me of the SMIL1.0 synchronised systems I used
to work on. And also of the ideas I've been adding the ability
synchronise events in a media stream to trigger other things, such as
images and text changes etc. (as SMIL can). This could also be used a
production tool to submit to and renderer of a certain format for any
platform/profile - much like EDF (Edit Descision Lists) for video
editing. I suppose it just the same for music composoition - like
Cubase/Acid/etc.


I need at least a rightclick widget in the editor to allow me to
'Add/Edit Attribute', which would be the same as the 'Add Link...'
option, but with two text fields and a dropdown list of existing
custom attributes, to make it easier for subsequent data input.


should this be easy to add to the app?

--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...> wrote:
> I've just posted example OPMLs that could be used to navigate around in
> several kinds of media. There are examples that demonstrate navigation
> through an audio program (like a podcast), a musical score, a film and
> an audio book.
>
> I noticed that Yahoo flattened the example outlines that I posted to
> illustrate my first postings. If you check out these file postings you
> can see them displayed properly when you read them with your copy of
> the OPML Editor.

I will adhere to that protocol for future posts. Thanks!

--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Winer" <dave@s...> wrote:
> Dave, I'd be happy to help, with one caveat -- requests for help
> should not be addressed to anyone specifically. I've found that if
> you do that then other people who may be able to help won't. I want
> the leverage that comes from having many smart people here to help
> each other out.
>
> Anyway, the OPML editor like Frontier or Radio can respond to XML-
RPC
> messages by placing a script in this table:
>
> user.betty.rpcHandlers
>
> If you look it up on Google, you'll find a bunch of references.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=user.betty.rpchandlers
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...>
> wrote:
> > I'm doing some experiments with my SongTrellis Music Editor. I
have
> > implemented a "save to OPML" option in the app's Save As dialog
to
> > generate an outline which describes the sequences of sections,
> > phrases, bars and notes in a musical score. I intend for this
> outline
> > to be navigable by the OPML Editor.
> >
> > I intend to wire up nodetypes in the OPML Editor to respond to
> custom
> > types in my outline so that users can select one or more outline
> > levels that describe the sequence of sections, phrases, bars or
> notes
> > in a piece of music and send a Play command which my editor will
> > respond to and begin to play the selection made by the user in
the
> > OPML Editor.
> >
> > I think this kind of functionality could be very useful to
control
> > many types of media players. I want to try this to test the
> > usefullness of the idea.
> >
> > The next step for me is to add a command to the editor that will
> > create my navigational opml and send it directly to the OPML
> Editor.
> > I would guess that there might be code already implemeted in the
> OPML
> > Editor that would respond to a POST message via XML-RPC. If
there's
> > not, it looks reasonably simple to implement the function I need.
> >
> > Dave, could you give me a suggestion on how to proceed?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave Luebbert

Dave, I'd be happy to help, with one caveat -- requests for help
should not be addressed to anyone specifically. I've found that if
you do that then other people who may be able to help won't. I want
the leverage that comes from having many smart people here to help
each other out.

Anyway, the OPML editor like Frontier or Radio can respond to XML-RPC
messages by placing a script in this table:

user.betty.rpcHandlers

If you look it up on Google, you'll find a bunch of references.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=user.betty.rpchandlers

Hope this helps...

Dave





--- In opmlsupport@yahoogroups.com, "David Luebbert" <davidlu@s...>
wrote:
> I'm doing some experiments with my SongTrellis Music Editor. I have
> implemented a "save to OPML" option in the app's Save As dialog to
> generate an outline which describes the sequences of sections,
> phrases, bars and notes in a musical score. I intend for this
outline
> to be navigable by the OPML Editor.
>
> I intend to wire up nodetypes in the OPML Editor to respond to
custom
> types in my outline so that users can select one or more outline
> levels that describe the sequence of sections, phrases, bars or
notes
> in a piece of music and send a Play command which my editor will
> respond to and begin to play the selection made by the user in the
> OPML Editor.
>
> I think this kind of functionality could be very useful to control
> many types of media players. I want to try this to test the
> usefullness of the idea.
>
> The next step for me is to add a command to the editor that will
> create my navigational opml and send it directly to the OPML
Editor.
> I would guess that there might be code already implemeted in the
OPML
> Editor that would respond to a POST message via XML-RPC. If there's
> not, it looks reasonably simple to implement the function I need.
>
> Dave, could you give me a suggestion on how to proceed?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Luebbert

I've just posted example OPMLs that could be used to navigate around in
several kinds of media. There are examples that demonstrate navigation
through an audio program (like a podcast), a musical score, a film and
an audio book.

I noticed that Yahoo flattened the example outlines that I posted to
illustrate my first postings. If you check out these file postings you
can see them displayed properly when you read them with your copy of
the OPML Editor.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the opmlsupport
group.

   File        : /Audio book outline.opml
   Uploaded by : davidlu7 <davidlu@...>
   Description : Outline for navigating through an audio book

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opmlsupport/files/Audio%20book%20outline.opml

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

davidlu7 <davidlu@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the opmlsupport
group.

   File        : /film outline.opml
   Uploaded by : davidlu7 <davidlu@...>
   Description : Sample OPML for navigating through a film

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opmlsupport/files/film%20outline.opml

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

davidlu7 <davidlu@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the opmlsupport
group.

   File        : /1-27-03tune.opml
   Uploaded by : davidlu7 <davidlu@...>
   Description : Example OPML for Music Score Navigation

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opmlsupport/files/1-27-03tune.opml

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

davidlu7 <davidlu@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the opmlsupport
group.

   File        : /audio program.opml
   Uploaded by : davidlu7 <davidlu@...>
   Description : OPML of an outline that describes an audio program

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/opmlsupport/files/audio%20program.opml

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

davidlu7 <davidlu@...>

Below is  an example outline that was emitted by the SongTrellis
Editor.

Selecting across any of the subheads in the outline and pressing a
Play button in the OPML Editor could cause the corresponding music to
start playing in the SongTrellis Editor.

I expect to soon add major headings to the outline emitted by
SongTrellis which would allow users to navigate through a piece "by
bar", "by structure", "by voice", "by note sequence", and "by
lyrics". In the "by lyrics" subhead, the lines of a song's lyric
would be shown as subheads of the outline. Selecting a subhead and
pressing Play would cause the editor to synthesise the musical
accompaniment for the selected line or lines of the lyric.

Example score outline:
score
	 by phrases
		 by Melody Voice 1 phrases
			 phrase 1 - Begins at Bar: 1
			 phrase 2 - Begins at Bar: 1 Beat: 4
			 phrase 3 - Begins at Bar: 2 Beat: 3
			 phrase 4 - Begins at Bar: 4
			 phrase 5 - Begins at Bar: 5 Beat: 4
			 phrase 6 - Begins at Bar: 6 Beat: 4
		 by Chord Voice phrases
			 phrase 1 - Begins at Bar: 1
			 phrase 2 - Begins at Bar: 2
			 phrase 3 - Begins at Bar: 3
			 phrase 4 - Begins at Bar: 4
			 phrase 5 - Begins at Bar: 5
			 phrase 6 - Begins at Bar: 6
			 phrase 7 - Begins at Bar: 7

There does seem to be a need to provide navigational assistance to
folks who download podcasts and want to find specific parts of a
radio program.

If we can attach navigational info to the levels of an outline which
identifies different parts of the program, and can figure out how to
send the appropriate kind of Play command to a media player, a user
could select different levels of the outline, issue a Play from a
popup menu and listen to the part of the program represented by the
selected portion of the outline.

For example, selecting the "Best moments" subhead in the example
outline below would cause excerpts chosen by the program's producer
to play which represent the best parts of the program.

If they selected, for example, across the 3rd, 4th and 5th Interval
subheads and issued a Play command, they could listen to the parts of
the program that were mosted interested in.

This interface would give personal computer users many ways to slice
and dice a program. The audio program OPML file could be downloaded
in parallel with the programs mp3 as a podcast is retrieved or could
be downloaded from an entirely separate site.

Example outline for an audio program:

Audio program
	 participants
		 Biographical sketches
	 Interview
		 Best moments
		 Sections
			 Interval 1
				 Description
			 ...
			 Interval n
		 Topics
			 Topic 1
			 ...
			 Topic n
		 Transcript

I'm doing some experiments with my SongTrellis Music Editor. I have
implemented a "save to OPML" option in the app's Save As dialog to
generate an outline which describes the sequences of sections,
phrases, bars and notes in a musical score. I intend for this outline
to be navigable by the OPML Editor.

I intend to wire up nodetypes in the OPML Editor to respond to custom
types in my outline so that users can select one or more outline
levels that describe the sequence of sections, phrases, bars or notes
in a piece of music and send a Play command which my editor will
respond to and begin to play the selection made by the user in the
OPML Editor.

I think this kind of functionality could be very useful to control
many types of media players. I want to try this to test the
usefullness of the idea.

The next step for me is to add a command to the editor that will
create my navigational opml and send it directly to the OPML Editor.
I would guess that there might be code already implemeted in the OPML
Editor that would respond to a POST message via XML-RPC. If there's
not, it looks reasonably simple to implement the function I need.

Dave, could you give me a suggestion on how to proceed?

Thanks,
Dave Luebbert