Florent wrote:
> 1st reason, it is close to Mandarin "ban1", but also to European root
> "band-", and means "number" in Japanese.
>
> 2nd reason, it sounds good (subjective advice), especially with
> pronouns ("miban" sounds better than "mimen").

I agree about the sound. Also perhaps some English speakers would
associate "mi-men" with "my men", which would be bad.

There's one thing that I hate about pronouns: when you change one then you
have to change them all. I like very much Mandarin 2nd person pronoun
"ni", but it sounds too much like 1st person pronoun "mi". That's why I
have selected "tu" for 2nd person, though some people could find it too
intimate or even offensive. Using "tu" in turn makes it impossible to use
"ta" for 3rd person because they sound too much alike... :-(

-- Risto

By the way, in Hindi there is 'gan' which means "group, multitude".
I'm bearing it in mind for a long time but have not used it anywhere yet.

Also, "men" could mean "they" and be used as a plural marker when needed.

--- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, risto@... wrote:
>
> Dmitry wrote:
> > Voinko kysyä, where is 'ban' (group) from?  I have the only
> > explanation 'band', but probably that's wrong
>
> It's correct, but in addition the word is also based on Chinese word
"ban"
> (first tone), which means a group of people.
>
> I was thinking to use it as the plural marker, but last night I got
> another idea. I was thinking about Mandarin plural for people: women
(we),
> nimen (you), tamen (they), renmen (people), haizimen (children). The
word
> is written "men" and pronounced /m@n/. The written form coincides with
> English "men", the plural of "man", which means male human beings, but
> also human beings in general.
>
> So I was thinking that in Pandunia "men" could mean "people, folk"
and it
> could be used as the plural marker for people when that distinction is
> required. I could even change the personal pronouns to match
Mandarin, so
> mi-men = we, ni-men = you, ta-men = they.
>
> Just an idea still, so feedback is very welcome.
>
> -- Risto
>


Rick Harrison used "men" for plural pronouns in Dunia:
http://www.langmaker.com/outpost/dunia.htm

My first impression is positive, only, if "men" means folks, "tamen"
will hardly refer to objects. Are you going to use "tamen" also for
objects? However, maybe that's not really a problem: in a sense,
everything may be regarded as animated to some extent :)

I think that, if we make personal pronouns Chinese-like, "men" is a
very good choice. Any other would not be that natural and widespread.
I didn't take it for LdP only because I was not satisfied with the
sound of the resulting sentences. No regular system using the same
plural suffix for nouns and pronouns satisfied me, so I just made
pronouns irregular but good-sounding and easy to pronounce, even in a
quick speech.

Dmitry

I checked the plural marking of dozens of languages, and I find no
universal (or widespread) pattern for it.

The most regular system I found is in Quechua (and a few related
languages). Quechua use -kuna suffix for all nouns and pronouns,
except for both inclusive and exclusive "we". Note that the use of
-kuna is not mandatory.

Back to the topic... From my point of view, your choice of "ban" is good:

1st reason, it is close to Mandarin "ban1", but also to European root
"band-", and means "number" in Japanese.

2nd reason, it sounds good (subjective advice), especially with
pronouns ("miban" sounds better than "mimen").

Florent.

Dmitry wrote:
> Voinko kysyä, where is 'ban' (group) from?  I have the only
> explanation 'band', but probably that's wrong

It's correct, but in addition the word is also based on Chinese word "ban"
(first tone), which means a group of people.

I was thinking to use it as the plural marker, but last night I got
another idea. I was thinking about Mandarin plural for people: women (we),
nimen (you), tamen (they), renmen (people), haizimen (children). The word
is written "men" and pronounced /m@n/. The written form coincides with
English "men", the plural of "man", which means male human beings, but
also human beings in general.

So I was thinking that in Pandunia "men" could mean "people, folk" and it
could be used as the plural marker for people when that distinction is
required. I could even change the personal pronouns to match Mandarin, so
mi-men = we, ni-men = you, ta-men = they.

Just an idea still, so feedback is very welcome.

-- Risto

--- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, Jens Wilkinson <jowilkinson4@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- Dmitri Ivanov <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:
>
> > Voinko kysyä, where is 'ban' (group) from?  I have
> > the only
> > explanation 'band', but probably that's wrong
> >
> > Dmitry
>
> I'm guessing it's from Chinese or Korean. There is a
> word like it in Japanese, which is "han". The word is
> commonly used for a group, and it's interesting that
> it has made it (sort of) into English, where we have a
> word "honcho" that means "leader". It comes from
> Japanese "hancho".
>
>
> Jens Wilkinson
> Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com
>
>

Right, I've found it in Chinese: ban1 - group, class, brigade.
It's interesting how the Chinese will take its usage instead of 'men'.

--- Dmitri Ivanov <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:

> Voinko kysyä, where is 'ban' (group) from?  I have
> the only
> explanation 'band', but probably that's wrong
>
> Dmitry

I'm guessing it's from Chinese or Korean. There is a
word like it in Japanese, which is "han". The word is
commonly used for a group, and it's interesting that
it has made it (sort of) into English, where we have a
word "honcho" that means "leader". It comes from
Japanese "hancho".


Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com


      
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Voinko kysyä, where is 'ban' (group) from?  I have the only
explanation 'band', but probably that's wrong

Dmitry

> [mailto:pandunia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of risto@...

> > But I think what Risto is saying is that there are no
> > rules dealing with it. I think he recognizes (I do
> > also) that people need no permission to use them.
> > People will use them whether the designer wants them
> > to or not. Other people won't use them even if you ask
> > them to! :)
>
> Jens is right. Some people will add some extra vowel if words are
too
> difficult for them. It's not necessarily a schwa, because  some
people just
> can't pronounce schwa. So it could be any full vowel too.

Yes, epenthesis happens.  Each language seems to have its own sound
to use too.  Japanese seem to favor [M] while us anglophones seem to
want to put [@] just about anywhere.  Schwas are centrally located
so it's easiest to prescribe them as a means, though there may be
variations depending on each speaker's habits.


> Pandunia should be pronounced as it is written, as closely as
possible. I
> try to keep it relatively simple so that it would be possible for
most
> people. That's why words like "ritm" and "tekst" don't fit in.

I had no problem using "ritam", but the triple cluster of "tekst" is
just too much, especially in the final position.

--- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, Risto Kupsala <risto@...> wrote:

> I still try to avoid too heavy words, like "text". I haven't selected a
> word for it yet, but I think there are good candidates in non-Western
> languages. "Text" is known everywhere in the West, but what can you do,
> it's too complex.
>

Yeah, that's the problem. It is known everywhere but it's too complex.
So I have an idea, maybe crazy (any idea may seem crazy at first):
let's take "tekst" but make it a rule, say, to add schwa after every K
and T which have no vowel after them.
(It may be even not a schwa. Listening to a well aspirated K I always
have an impression that it is a syllable, even without a vowel)
What shall we have? Something like TEK@ST@. Well, not exactly "text"
but close. And the question is, is it better (for everyone) to adopt
another word which is easy to pronounce but known to few, or to adopt
"text" in such modified form.
Yes, then pronunciation will differ from the written form. But still
up to now I can't persuade myself that it is a bad idea in general.

Dmitry

Jens Wilkinson kirjoitti:
> --- Dmitri Ivanov <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:
>
>> --- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, Risto Kupsala
>> <risto@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Pandunia has only 5 vowels, so there's no
>> possibility for any schwa
>> > rules.
>>
>> Also it seems that in case of
>> end consonants like
>> "motod" some people will add schwa anyway without
>> any special
>> permission. - ?
>
> Something was funny about the letters in your message.

The number codes stand for ä (a with two dots).

> But I think what Risto is saying is that there are no
> rules dealing with it. I think he recognizes (I do
> also) that people need no permission to use them.
> People will use them whether the designer wants them
> to or not. Other people won't use them even if you ask
> them to! :)

Jens is right. Some people will add some extra vowel if words are too
difficult for them. It's not necessarily a schwa, because some people just
can't pronounce schwa. So it could be any full vowel too.

Pandunia should be pronounced as it is written, as closely as possible. I
try to keep it relatively simple so that it would be possible for most
people. That's why words like "ritm" and "tekst" don't fit in.

-- Risto

--- Dmitri Ivanov <lingwadeplaneta@...> wrote:

> --- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, Risto Kupsala
> <risto@...> wrote:
> >
> > Pandunia has only 5 vowels, so there's no
> possibility for any schwa
> > rules.
>
> Also it seems that in case of
> end consonants like
> "motod" some people will add schwa anyway without
> any special
> permission. - ?

Something was funny about the letters in your message.
But I think what Risto is saying is that there are no
rules dealing with it. I think he recognizes (I do
also) that people need no permission to use them.
People will use them whether the designer wants them
to or not. Other people won't use them even if you ask
them to! :)


Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com


      
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--- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, Risto Kupsala <risto@...> wrote:
>
> Pandunia has only 5 vowels, so there's no possibility for any schwa
> rules.

Sit&#228; en t&#228;ysin ymm&#228;rr&#228;. Do you mean that if schwa is not
included in
the  vowels list, then it may not be used? Muistaakseni min&#228; luin
schwa-buffering:st&#228; on NeoPatwa and Ceqli sites, although they also
have only 5 vowels. Also it seems that in case of end consonants like
"motod" some people will add schwa anyway without any special
permission. - ?

Dmitri Ivanov kirjoitti:
  > Terve.
  > I was looking through Pandunia-English word list and was wondering
  > about the origin of some words. Is "pada" from the Russian "padat'"?

Yes it is. It is impossible to find widely international words for basic
ideas like that, so I just pick a nice word from some large language.

  > I agree that taking words as they are is cool. We are now considering
  > even words like "text". I think that if you give a clear rule for
  > adding shwa (based on syllable shape) then it's no problem and there
  > is no need to write insertional vowels like in "ritim", simply ritm is
  > OK!

I still try to avoid too heavy words, like "text". I haven't selected a
word for it yet, but I think there are good candidates in non-Western
languages. "Text" is known everywhere in the West, but what can you do,
it's too complex.

Pandunia has only 5 vowels, so there's no possibility for any schwa
rules. "Ritim" is a Turkish word, so I consider it a legitimate
candidate. Some languages tend to simplify phonologically complex words,
languages like Turkish, Indonesian and Japanese. Their word forms are
good material for Pandunia.

-- Risto

Terve.
I was looking through Pandunia-English word list and was wondering
about the origin of some words. Is "pada" from the Russian "padat'"?

I agree that taking words as they are is cool. We are now considering
even words like "text". I think that if you give a clear rule for
adding shwa (based on syllable shape) then it's no problem and there
is no need to write insertional vowels like in "ritim", simply ritm is
OK!

Dmitry

Dmitri Ivanov kirjoitti:
  > Terveisia. Vain yksi kysymys. You still don't have 'y', do you? Etkö
  > pidä 'y' siinä määrin että prefer to have 2 kinds of 'j'?

Niin. En pidä y:stä puolivokaalin merkkinä. Tietysti olen tottunut
näkemään y:tä puolivokaalina monessa kielessä, ja se olisi aivan sopiva
siihen tarkoitukseen myös maailmankielessä. Sitä ei voi kiistää. Mutta
minä teen valinnan panduniassa, ja teen sen oman mieleni mukaan. Huomaa,
että myös esperantossa on 2 sorttia j:tä, hatuton ja hatullinen. No,
panduniassa on pisteetön ja pisteellinen.

Mukavaa että kirjoitit suomeksi, Dmitri.

-- Risto

--- In pandunia@yahoogroups.com, risto@... wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I updated the alphabet of Pandunia. As you know, I'm an advocate of the
> IPA, but I reckoned that it will be easier for me and others to keep it
> ASCII friendly. So I assigned <c> = /S/, <J> = /Z/ and <q> = /N/.
>
> Pandunia is written in lower case letters, so using one upper case
letter
> (J) is not a big problem. I'm considering to use another upper case
> letter, <N> to denote /N/, but I'm not sure would it work visually.
>
> ------------------------------------------
> Terve!
>
> Pikkunen päivitys pandunian aakkosiin. Kuten olen jossakin
> yhteydessä
> kertonutkin, olen Kansainvälisen tarkekirjoituksen kannattaja.
>Mielestäni
> sen avulla voitaisiin selvittää monta siirtokirjoitukseen liittyvää
> epäselvyyttä. Päätin kuitenkin antaa periksi ASCII:n
> merkkirajoituksille
> vielä tällä kertaa ja tyytyä rajoitetun latinalaisen kirjaimiston
> käyttöön.
>
> Uudet kirjaimet ovat: <c> = /S/, <J> = /Z/ ja <q> = /N/.
>
> Panduniaa kirjoitetaan pienillä kirjaimilla, joten yhden ison
> kirjaimen
> (J) käyttö ei liene ongelma. <J> erottuu visuaalisesti hyvin
> "pikkuveljestään" <j>:stä, koska se on kaarevampi, leveämpi, vailla
> pistettä ja yleensä myös ylemmäksi sijoitettu.
>
> Ajattelin myös toisen ison kirjaimen käyttöä, nimittäin <N> = /N/,
> mutta
> se saattaisi pompata liikaa silmille.
>
> -- Risto Kupsala
>

Terveisia. Vain yksi kysymys. You still don't have 'y', do you? Etkö
pidä 'y' siinä määrin että prefer to have 2 kinds of 'j'?

Hi,

I updated the alphabet of Pandunia. As you know, I'm an advocate of the
IPA, but I reckoned that it will be easier for me and others to keep it
ASCII friendly. So I assigned <c> = /S/, <J> = /Z/ and <q> = /N/.

Pandunia is written in lower case letters, so using one upper case letter
(J) is not a big problem. I'm considering to use another upper case
letter, <N> to denote /N/, but I'm not sure would it work visually.

------------------------------------------
Terve!

Pikkunen päivitys pandunian aakkosiin. Kuten olen jossakin yhteydessä
kertonutkin, olen Kansainvälisen tarkekirjoituksen kannattaja. Mielestäni
sen avulla voitaisiin selvittää monta siirtokirjoitukseen liittyvää
epäselvyyttä. Päätin kuitenkin antaa periksi ASCII:n merkkirajoituksille
vielä tällä kertaa ja tyytyä rajoitetun latinalaisen kirjaimiston
käyttöön.

Uudet kirjaimet ovat: <c> = /S/, <J> = /Z/ ja <q> = /N/.

Panduniaa kirjoitetaan pienillä kirjaimilla, joten yhden ison kirjaimen
(J) käyttö ei liene ongelma. <J> erottuu visuaalisesti hyvin
"pikkuveljestään" <j>:stä, koska se on kaarevampi, leveämpi, vailla
pistettä ja yleensä myös ylemmäksi sijoitettu.

Ajattelin myös toisen ison kirjaimen käyttöä, nimittäin <N> = /N/, mutta
se saattaisi pompata liikaa silmille.

-- Risto Kupsala

salam.

I updated the word list again. I switched to (C)V(C) syllable shape, so
some words look different than before.

"New" words include personal pronouns for singular (mi, tu, je). The
plural forms shall be compounds, e.g. mi ban = I+group = "my group" = we
(exclusive). Note that the word list contains only root words but no
compounds. I will add them later.

Another new set of words is grammar particles, currently four of them,
"ja" for emphasizing a known fact, "ka" for questioning something, "ne"
for asking further information or confirmation, and "ba" for
suggestion/imperative.

-- Risto

salam!

I can tell also my way of finding words to Pandunia.

I'm not very systematic. Sometimes I have certain word in mind before I
start, but more often I glance some dictionary or word list and pursue a
word that arouses my interest. It may sound weird to some, but  I read
dictionaries and language text books for fun almost every day. So if I
see a word that sounds suitable for Pandunia, I will search for cognates
in other languages, which I know to have words in common with that
language. I have a bunch of printed dictionaries, a multilingual
dictionary program (which includes mostly European languages) and I use
also some online dictionaries. Presence in a handful of big languages
are enough to convince me that the word is acceptable for Pandunia.
Usually there are several forms to choose from and I will take the
simplest one that fits in, if it's not too different from the others.

I used to be more organized and thorough when working with Mulivo, but
it took too much of my time.

-- Risto

Sell vesper prients!

I can tell you grosso modo how I do now when I need to find a new
word for Sambahsa-mundialect. In the past, I have begun with IE
databases and afterwards I switched on loanwords lists (which
increased greatly the quality of my work). Most of them can be found
on the net, others can be made out of etymological dictionaries or
descriptive grammars.
Now, I use mainly on-line dictionaries. Of course, I cannot check
every language on earth. So I use a pannel of languages selected
either for their importance or for their capacity to absorb loanwords
(not to mention Western European languages whose vocabulary is well
known): Arabic, Persian, Turkish, Swahili, Greek (Old and New),
Yugoslavian, Rumanian, (sometimes Polish, Scandinavian and Finnish),
Bulgarian, Uzbek, Urdu, Sanskrit, Indonesian, sometimes Tagalog. Very
recently I have added Japanese Kanji and Chinese Mandarin. Dead
languages (including Latin too) are in the list because they keep on
providing new words to living languages.
A propos, I have begun to publish parts of the french-mundialect
dictionary on my blog. For the moment, only one half of the alphabet,
and only a sample of the whole vocabulary; but nevertheless I have
favored "exotic" words (not romance ones), so some of you might be
interested.

Sell orbat!
Olivier
http://sambahsa-mundialect-org.blogspot.com

> [mailto:pandunia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
risto@...

> I'm keeping the statistics to make sure that the vocabulary
> stays on the
> right track, that the fuzzily defined quotas are met. The
vocabulary
> should be fairly distributed in all areas, from core
vocabulary to
> specialized words.


I do that too..  Mainly to keep an eye on things so I can see if
I'm maintaining  a good balance of words.  I do expect more
Western and IE vocabulary, but still want to make sure the other
languages have more than tokenistic representation.


http://www.nutter.net/sasxsek/lexicon_statistics.asp?lang=eng

> [mailto:pandunia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jens Wilkinson

> > Like I have said before, everybody wins and
> > gets more than
> > their "allotted share" with cross-language
> > vocabulary. But only if the
> > words are selected well. "Cherry picking" won't
> > work.
>
> I don't mean this as a criticism, because we all face
> the same constraints, but one problem is that there
> are some words that are widely used. For example,
> choosing words for "coffee" or "tea" or "sauna" or
> "sushi" will lead to very good figures because the
> words are widely shared. But once we get to other
> words like even simple things like "big" and "small",
> it becomes much harder to find forms that are widely
> shared.

Even moreso, grammatical particles and those "small" words are
what are really different.

FWIW: "mega-" and "mini-" seem pretty widespread in product
naming and advertising so using them for "big" and "small"
works.  "gran(d)" is pretty common in the West, and "mikro"
could be another option for "small".

> It may be that you've been able to get a fairly good
> share of cross-language usage because most of the
> words you've chosen so far are nouns. I think (though
> I'm not 100% sure) that the adjectives and verbs will
> be more troublesome generally.

Verbs seem to be the toughest because there are also issues of
valency, and some languages have words in what we would perceive
to be a passive form.

Jens Wilkinson wrote:
> I don't mean this as a criticism, because we all face
> the same constraints, but one problem is that there
> are some words that are widely used. For example,
> choosing words for "coffee" or "tea" or "sauna" or
> "sushi" will lead to very good figures because the
> words are widely shared.

True. It's pointless to make statistics for cultural words like sushi,
sauna and tango. They are almost like proper nouns. Coffee and tea are a
different matter, because they are everyday things everywhere in the
world.

It's funny how banana is called something like "banana" in places where it
has been known only for a short time. In places where it's been known for
centuries it has original names like muz, kela, pisang and ndizi. :-)

> But once we get to other
> words like even simple things like "big" and "small",
> it becomes much harder to find forms that are widely
> shared.

True too. Ideas that have existed always tend to have self-originated
words in most languages, but there are cases where neighboring language
has changed them too. English has "grand" and "petty/petite" from French
in addition to original "big" and "small".

> It may be that you've been able to get a fairly good
> share of cross-language usage because most of the
> words you've chosen so far are nouns. I think (though
> I'm not 100% sure) that the adjectives and verbs will
> be more troublesome generally.

Consider statistics always with suspicion! :-)

I'm keeping the statistics to make sure that the vocabulary stays on the
right track, that the fuzzily defined quotas are met. The vocabulary
should be fairly distributed in all areas, from core vocabulary to
specialized words.

-- Risto

> Like I have said before, everybody wins and
> gets more than
> their "allotted share" with cross-language
> vocabulary. But only if the
> words are selected well. "Cherry picking" won't
> work.

I don't mean this as a criticism, because we all face
the same constraints, but one problem is that there
are some words that are widely used. For example,
choosing words for "coffee" or "tea" or "sauna" or
"sushi" will lead to very good figures because the
words are widely shared. But once we get to other
words like even simple things like "big" and "small",
it becomes much harder to find forms that are widely
shared.

It may be that you've been able to get a fairly good
share of cross-language usage because most of the
words you've chosen so far are nouns. I think (though
I'm not 100% sure) that the adjectives and verbs will
be more troublesome generally.

Jens Wilkinson
Neo Patwa language: http://patwa.pbwiki.com


      
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Dana Nutter wrote:
  > The other thing besides population that I like to
  > think also matters is geographic distribution. How much
  > physical land mass a language covers, and if a language is
  > concentraed in one area, or spread about the world. English is
  > about the only language that is really found just about all
  > over, though the numbers are still small in Asia. Africa has a
  > mix of colonial languages mixed in with indigenous languages.

Yes, it's an important aspect. Widely spread languages also tend to be
influential

  > Keep in mind that IE languages represent about 40% of the
  > world's population.

It is not only vast but also very diverse language family. So the
linkages between languages like French and Bangla lie very deep. Also,
quite importantly, the Indo-Iranian languages have succumbed to Arabic
influence, which strengthens the case of Arabic vocabulary. Arabic is
also very influential in Africa, also outside its homeground in West and
East Africa, so that continent is not only the domain of the colonial
languages.

  > Given what I've said above, I think there is an argument to put
  > a good share of Western colonial vocabulary in the mix. I just
  > don't believe in using exclusively Western vocabulary. These
  > languages are very influential today, especially English.

I keep count of Pandunia's vocabulary. Here are the current statistics:
50% Western
41% Afro-Asian
33% East Asian
29% South Asian
15% Sub-Saharan African

These statistics are broad (for example a word is labeled Western even
if it's only found in Spanish and Portuguese but not in French, English
and German) but they show the general tendency. Most words are present
in more than one group, which explains why the sum of the percentages is
not 100. Like I have said before, everybody wins and gets more than
their "allotted share" with cross-language vocabulary. But only if the
words are selected well. "Cherry picking" won't work.

I have also more accurate statistics for individual languages out of
pure interest and in order to prevent any large language being
underrepresented.

-- Risto Kupsala

Hi Doro,

I will try to fix the lack of verbs and adjectives. I try to keep the
number of adjectives in minimum. For example there should be no color
words but they will be substituted with nouns associated to certain
colors. For example "lila kamis" (lilac shirt) means "purple shirt".

Pandunia's words are supposed to be as close to pan-world (world = dunia)
as possible. So I will accept Slavic words if they are pan-Slavic or
shared with other languages. I have noticed that South Slavic but also
Russian have words in common with Persian and Turkish. Such words would be
suitable material to Pandunia.

It would be also helpful if you could think about foreign expressions that
are popularly known in your country. For example "salam aleikum" is well
known by many people even in non-Moslem countries, so "salam" makes for a
good greeting in Pandunia.

-- Risto

> Pandunia's vocabulary is supposed to be evenly distributed between the
> largest civilizations of the world. Asia is the most populous
continent,
> so most of the words must come from there. I'm not myself an expert in
> the Asian languages, but I do my best to find widely known words to
> Pandunia.
>
> What kind of words you would like to bring in?
> That's right. Pandunia rejects strict word order and inflection.
Instead
> it leans on meaning of words and on context.

Salam,

Most of your words in the list are nouns. Verbs and adjectives are
nearly missing.

What kind of words you would like me to bring in? I am familiar most
to Slavic and Baltic languages and like minor European languages. Also
I have some material on languages like Georgian and Armenian.

In most europe centered IAL either romanic or germanic languages
prevail. Slavic, celtic, baltic, Albanian etc. are not so much
covered. Concerning slavic languages my focus is most on South Slavic
languages which are also rarely represented in IAL projects.

Concerning Asian languages I just have some small books on Myanmar
language, corean and standard Arabian language.

Best regards
DORO

> [mailto:pandunia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Risto Kupsala

>  > thanks for updating the list. In my view is not necessary
to change
>  > the vocal endings of the words.
>
> I will change some of them. Certain endings like -m, -t, -k
> and -p are
> easy for most people.
>
>  > Would like to have help in creating
>  > words? My problem is that I am not so good at asian
> languages you like
>  > for creating words.
>
> Pandunia's vocabulary is supposed to be evenly distributed
> between the
> largest civilizations of the world. Asia is the most populous
> continent,
> so most of the words must come from there. I'm not myself an
> expert in
> the Asian languages, but I do my best to find widely known
words to
> Pandunia.

Asia is also very linguistically diverse with several language
families (Austronesian, Tai Kadai, Sino-Tibetan, Japanese,
Korean, Altaic, Semitic, and of course IE) but there are some
words that have been spread across these families through
borrowing.  The other thing besides population that I like to
think also matters is geographic distribution.  How much
physical land mass a language covers, and if a language is
concentraed in one area, or spread about the world.  English is
about the only language that is really found just about all
over, though the numbers are still small in Asia.  Africa has a
mix of colonial languages mixed in with indigenous languages.
Keep in mind that IE languages represent about 40% of the
world's population.


http://www.ethnologue.com/ethno_docs/distribution.asp?by=family


> What kind of words you would like to bring in?

Given what I've said above, I think there is an argument to put
a good share of Western colonial vocabulary in the mix. I just
don't believe in using exclusively Western vocabulary.  These
languages are very influential today, especially English.

> thanks for updating the list. In my view is not necessary to change
  > the vocal endings of the words.

I will change some of them. Certain endings like -m, -t, -k and -p are
easy for most people.

  > Would like to have help in creating
  > words? My problem is that I am not so good at asian languages you like
  > for creating words.

Pandunia's vocabulary is supposed to be evenly distributed between the
largest civilizations of the world. Asia is the most populous continent,
so most of the words must come from there. I'm not myself an expert in
the Asian languages, but I do my best to find widely known words to
Pandunia.

What kind of words you would like to bring in?

  > What about the grammar? You mentioned two modifiers. If the words are
  > not inflected we need either more modifiers or a strict word order. Or
  > do you think that the form of the word can only be seen from the
contense?

That's right. Pandunia rejects strict word order and inflection. Instead
it leans on meaning of words and on context.

-- Risto Kupsala