Joseph,

Not on topic but to your question, spiral TLTs aren't especially big
but they are a good way to achieve voltage multiplication and get a
very short pulse. They are akin to cable Blumlein transformers but
made by wrapping a pair of strip conductors in a spiral with
intervening dielectric. One was described in Review of Scientific
Instruments made from wide electrical tape and aluminum tape (the
author of the article reported a hard time with the stretchiness of
the vinyl tape). It was used to power a vacuum diode electron gun
with a potential of about 100 kV with an input of around 20 kV. I
have Fitch's 1966 patent at
http://www.belljar.net/techpatents/fitch_3289015.pdf

My application would be for a flash x-ray tube.

As to the vacuum lifetime problem of amateur built GM tubes, I'd
think that some sort of envelope could be made from flat aluminum
plate (into which simple feedthroughs could be sealed) with pyrex
baking dishes of modest size sealed on with epoxy (permanent) or
vacuum wax (demountable).

Steve H


--- In particledetector@yahoogroups.com, Joseph DiVerdi <diverdi@x>
wrote:
>>
> It sounds like you're interested in building a honking big
capacitor and it sounds like fun. What do you plan to do with one?

>Thanks for the pointers to your updates Joe.
>
>Seems like it should be possble to come up with something that's
>more metal/less polymer and still simple and inexpensive. Have to
>give it some thought.
>
>That shower pan liner stuff caught my eye at a recent trip to my
>local Home Depot. Thought it would be great for the dielectric in a
>spiral transmission line transformer (with alum flashing as the
>conductors).
>
>Steve H

Dear Steve,

You're welcome.

There are many other configurations. I'm just a simple linear thinker without
much imagination. :)

It sounds like you're interested in building a honking big capacitor and it
sounds like fun. What do you plan to do with one?

Best regards,
Joseph
--
Joseph A. DiVerdi, Ph.D., M.B.A.
http://xtrsystems.com/           970.980.5868 (voice)
PGP Key ID: 0xD50A9E33           KC0QPZ

>Hi Joseph!
>
>Welcome aboard!!!
>Now that is cool! Thanks a lot for the links and sharing
>first hand information on the topic! :-D
>
>Regarding the "glue" to put together the detector:
>I'm not gonna use any noble gas, just plain air. If I use "acrylic
>solvent" along with plain air, how will that affect the detector ?
>Increase/decrease the count rate ?

Any old gas will work in a detector such as this. However, there are
consequences... in particular, the ionization energy (IE) of the gas has a
profound effect on the behavior of the detector.

"Gain" is what you want in a GM detector, that is the passage of a single
charged particle through the detector triggers an avalanche of ionization
resulting in a substantial transient flow of current. Gain is obtained when an
electron (the ionized atoms are much too heavy and sluggish to participate in
this process) ionized by the collision of the initial incoming particle gains
enough kinetic energy (KE) through electrostatic acceleration through the
potential field (created by the shaped electrodes and their charge) to ionize
another detector gas atom. If the gas atom density is too high then the "mean
free path" will be short enough that the electrons will collide with one or more
atoms but will not ionize them because they haven't been accelerated enough.

So there is a balance among the ionization energy of the gas atoms, the density
of the gas atoms, the voltage to which the electrodes are charged, and (the
steepness of) the potential well by the shape of the electrodes.

Oxygen and nitrogen have higher IEs than to argon and helium. Even though helium
has the lowest IE of elements suitable for this application I prefer argon
(whose IE is a bit higher) because it isn't so penetrating as helium and it is
readily available in local welding shops. Using oxygen and/or nitrogen will
require a higher charging voltage and/or a more steeply shaped potential well.

The most popular detector pressure is around 10 cm of Hg or around 10mTorr. This
is a balance between gas atom density and mean free path. A higher pressure
means shorter mean free path and the potential well needs to be steeper to
accelerate the electrons in the shorter distance.

So, detectors with these conditions *can* be made to work and *are* used in
specialized applications but I suspect that you will find them troublesome. Of
course, you shouldn't be dissuaded by me but should analyze and experiment your
self. ;)

>How fast will the gases from the junctions affect the measurement ?

As I noted in the referenced articles, I had lots of trouble with the acrylic
solvent outgassing into the relatively small detector vacuum chamber and raising
the chamber pressure rather quickly. :( If one were to utilize a *dynamic*
rather than *static* vacuum, with a constant replenishment of the detector gas,
then this outgassing wouldn't be an issue but there would be a need for more gas
(no issue if you're using air) and continual operation of a pump.

>Will it be enough to renew the air i.e. once a week ?

I couldn't make it overnight in my case.

>
>Furthermore I will use a electrical vaccuum pump instead of a
>manual pump:
>http://www.hyco.de/produkt1.htm
>That pump will provide a vaccumm of about 110mbar - along with the
>variable power supply from 0 to 3kV, it should work, even with
>plain air, right ?

Hmmm, see above.

>Thanks again for your input!!! :-D
>
>Greetings,
>Hannes.


BTW, I incorrectly reported that I'm building 0.5 square meter detectors.
Actually, they are more like one-tenth that area.

Best regards,
Joseph
--
Joseph A. DiVerdi, Ph.D., M.B.A.
http://xtrsystems.com/           970.980.5868 (voice)
PGP Key ID: 0xD50A9E33           KC0QPZ

Joseph DiVerdi wrote:
> I have experimented with GM detectors and written on them a bit in the SAS
(Society of Amateur Scientists founded by Shawn) E-Bulletin. Here are a few
references:
>
> Geiger Tube Interface Circuits:
>  http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-06-21/features3/body.html
>
> Capturing event data with a PC (Linux, Perl, data file format):
> http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2003-11-14/features3/body.html
>
> Building Big, Flat Plastic Vacuum Chambers for Cosmic Ray Detectors:
> http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-10-04/labNotes/body.html
>
> More Building Big, Flat Plastic Vacuum Chambers for Cosmic Ray Detectors:
> http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-10-18/labNotes/body.html
>
> I am in the middle of writing up (yet) another article for the E-Bulletin on
some experimental data obtained using two (small tubular) GM tubes and some
home-made coincidence detector circuitry to (quantitatively) distinguish between
cosmic events and (background) local radioactivity. It is this work which has
driven me to learn how to build big, flat detectors (with large capture area).
Small capture area end-sensitive tubes just don't intercept enough event
activity to get good statistics, IMHO.
>
> WIP alert: I have a pair of 0.5 square meter detectors in the works which will
be mounted on a meridian gimbal with data taken using a motor-driven sweep along
the meridian while the earth's rotation provides a perpendicular drift scan
during which the counts are recorded on a networked, desktop PC running Linux
and a home-made Perl acquisition program. As previously, the raw event and the
processed data will be available on-line and in real-time.
>
> Thanks for kicking this mail list off, Hannes. :)

Hi Joseph!

Welcome aboard!!!
Now that is cool! Thanks a lot for the links and sharing
first hand information on the topic! :-D

Regarding the "glue" to put together the detector:
I'm not gonna use any noble gas, just plain air. If I use "acrylic
solvent" along with plain air, how will that affect the detector ?
Increase/decrease the count rate ?

How fast will the gases from the junctions affect the measurement ?
Will it be enough to renew the air i.e. once a week ?

Furthermore I will use a electrical vaccuum pump instead of a
manual pump:
http://www.hyco.de/produkt1.htm
That pump will provide a vaccumm of about 110mbar - along with the
variable power supply from 0 to 3kV, it should work, even with
plain air, right ?

Thanks again for your input!!! :-D

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Thanks for the pointers to your updates Joe.

Seems like it should be possble to come up with something that's
more metal/less polymer and still simple and inexpensive. Have to
give it some thought.

That shower pan liner stuff caught my eye at a recent trip to my
local Home Depot. Thought it would be great for the dielectric in a
spiral transmission line transformer (with alum flashing as the
conductors).

Steve H

>Shawn Carlson, who wrote the arcicle for sciam.com
>http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=22&articleID=0009A61C-066A-\
1C71-84A9809EC588EF21
>suggested to use silicone aquarium cement.
>I'm just about to start with the project, so I can't say what I will
>use. But he used epoxy to glue the aluminum foil and the wire inside
>the chamber...

I have experimented with GM detectors and written on them a bit in the SAS
(Society of Amateur Scientists founded by Shawn) E-Bulletin. Here are a few
references:

Geiger Tube Interface Circuits:
  http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-06-21/features3/body.html

Capturing event data with a PC (Linux, Perl, data file format):
http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2003-11-14/features3/body.html

Building Big, Flat Plastic Vacuum Chambers for Cosmic Ray Detectors:
http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-10-04/labNotes/body.html

More Building Big, Flat Plastic Vacuum Chambers for Cosmic Ray Detectors:
http://www.sas.org/E-Bulletin/2002-10-18/labNotes/body.html

I am in the middle of writing up (yet) another article for the E-Bulletin on
some experimental data obtained using two (small tubular) GM tubes and some
home-made coincidence detector circuitry to (quantitatively) distinguish between
cosmic events and (background) local radioactivity. It is this work which has
driven me to learn how to build big, flat detectors (with large capture area).
Small capture area end-sensitive tubes just don't intercept enough event
activity to get good statistics, IMHO.

WIP alert: I have a pair of 0.5 square meter detectors in the works which will
be mounted on a meridian gimbal with data taken using a motor-driven sweep along
the meridian while the earth's rotation provides a perpendicular drift scan
during which the counts are recorded on a networked, desktop PC running Linux
and a home-made Perl acquisition program. As previously, the raw event and the
processed data will be available on-line and in real-time.

Thanks for kicking this mail list off, Hannes. :)

Best regards,
Joseph
--
Joseph A. DiVerdi, Ph.D., M.B.A.
http://xtrsystems.com/           970.980.5868 (voice)
PGP Key ID: 0xD50A9E33           KC0QPZ

Try e-Bay under "Geiger Counter".  A CD V-700 is a Geiger Counter.  Other
CDs such as V-715 and V-717 are ion chamber types and not useful for muon
detection (very high scale).
Dusty

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:13:02 -0600 Eric Vogel <evogel@...> writes:
John et al,

I would really appreciate pointers to where to buy a pair of GM tubes at
a
good price. Esp. ones suited for this activity.

Thanks,

Eric Vogel


>   I'm
>using
>government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.



>Best regards
>
>John Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
>Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
>To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!
>
>
>
>Hi all!
>
>I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
>some new members already joined!
>
>Welcome aboard! :-)
>
>Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
>Geiger-Müller detector: <http://muon.captain.at/>http://muon.captain.at/
>The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
>have first results in April or so.
>
>I also thought of building a muon detector with
>scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
>aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
>a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
>on the other hand much cheaper.
>
>Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)
>
>Greetings,
>Hannes.
>--
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
>|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
>|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
>|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
>|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
>|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
>|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
>
>
>Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
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Eric Vogel

http://www.flash.net/~evogel/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Steve!

pseudospark wrote:
> John Strong had a chapter on Geiger counters in his Procedures in
> Experimental Physics. One of the homemade tubes was 6" in diameter
> by about 4 ft long. The end insulators were Pyrex mixing bowls
> sealed to the tube with sealing wax (probably Apiezon W wax). Fill
> was Ar at 70 Torr.
>
> Regarding the planar configuation described in this forum, I wonder
> about the usefulness of silicone sealant for assembling GM tubes.
> The stuff is very permeable as compared with epoxy or sealing wax
> and I'd think that the tube would have to be frequently maintained.

Shawn Carlson, who wrote the arcicle for sciam.com
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=22&articleID=0009A61C-066A-1\
C71-84A9809EC588EF21
suggested to use silicone aquarium cement.
I'm just about to start with the project, so I can't say what I will
use. But he used epoxy to glue the aluminum foil and the wire inside
the chamber...
Thanks a lot for the hint about the permeability !!!

> On commercial tubes, I've purchased surplus tubes, scintillators and
> electronics from Don Orie at OE Technologies (
> http://www.oetech.com )

Thanks too for the link! Will have a in-depth look now!

Cheers,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

John Strong had a chapter on Geiger counters in his Procedures in
Experimental Physics. One of the homemade tubes was 6" in diameter
by about 4 ft long. The end insulators were Pyrex mixing bowls
sealed to the tube with sealing wax (probably Apiezon W wax). Fill
was Ar at 70 Torr.

Regarding the planar configuation described in this forum, I wonder
about the usefulness of silicone sealant for assembling GM tubes.
The stuff is very permeable as compared with epoxy or sealing wax
and I'd think that the tube would have to be frequently maintained.

On commercial tubes, I've purchased surplus tubes, scintillators and
electronics from Don Orie at OE Technologies (
http://www.oetech.com )

Steve H

Hi all!

Last year in summer when I was thinking about which detector
I should build I also considered useing commercial GM tubes,
but then decided to build my own for the following reason:

In my opinion, the area of comm. GM tubes is quite small,
and therefore the probability of one muon passing thru both
detectors is quite low.
So I came to the conclusion that muon detection with 2
comm. GM tubes is rather luck. Many detections will just be
background radiation which occur on both detectors at the
same time.

If one uses detectors with a larger area, the probability
of detection of background radiation at the same time is
there too, but on the other hand the probability of muon
detection in both detectors is increases very much.

What do you think ?

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Hi Eric

Well, I'm no expert, but I get mine from eBay.  Mostly they are ex RAF items
called 'Trainers' and usually sell for about £9.00 ($13.00?).  I strip out
the tubes and chuck the rest away.  However it is still early days and I
could not make any judgement as to how suitable they are compared with other
units.

Best regards

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Vogel [mailto:evogel@...]
Sent: 04 January 2004 07:13
To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [particledetector] RE: [particle detector] Grand Opening
today!


John et al,

I would really appreciate pointers to where to buy a pair of GM tubes at a
good price. Esp. ones suited for this activity.

Thanks,

Eric Vogel


>   I'm
>using
>government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.



>Best regards
>
>John Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
>Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
>To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!
>
>
>
>Hi all!
>
>I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
>some new members already joined!
>
>Welcome aboard! :-)
>
>Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
>Geiger-Müller detector: <http://muon.captain.at/>http://muon.captain.at/
>The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
>have first results in April or so.
>
>I also thought of building a muon detector with
>scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
>aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
>a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
>on the other hand much cheaper.
>
>Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)
>
>Greetings,
>Hannes.
>--
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
>|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
>|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
>|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
>|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
>|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
>|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
>
>
>Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
><http://muon.captain.at/>http://muon.captain.at/
>
>
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John et al,

I would really appreciate pointers to where to buy a pair of GM tubes at a
good price. Esp. ones suited for this activity.

Thanks,

Eric Vogel


>   I'm
>using
>government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.



>Best regards
>
>John Murray
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
>Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
>To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!
>
>
>
>Hi all!
>
>I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
>some new members already joined!
>
>Welcome aboard! :-)
>
>Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
>Geiger-Müller detector: <http://muon.captain.at/>http://muon.captain.at/
>The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
>have first results in April or so.
>
>I also thought of building a muon detector with
>scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
>aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
>a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
>on the other hand much cheaper.
>
>Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)
>
>Greetings,
>Hannes.
>--
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
>|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
>|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
>|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
>|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
>|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
>|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
>+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
>
>
>
>Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
><http://muon.captain.at/>http://muon.captain.at/
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Eric Vogel

http://www.flash.net/~evogel/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hannes and Forum,
I have some scintillation Xtals (sodium iodide), plus
photomultiplier tubes, plus  preamplifiers. All you have to do is to
add a power supply of 900/1000 V and a scope to see wonderful
background desintegrations (150 mV pep). All I need is to cover de
cost of postal mail from Argentina. Also I´m interested in some
exchange of Magnetic detection sensors or something related, for my
hardware. Also I have an Amperex Geiger tube to exchange. Only for
experimentation purposes.
Have a nice New Year,
Jorge

Hannes!
Congratullations: I love this topic!
How about the New Year?
Best regards,
Jorge Dewey

Hi Dusty...

Just import the files into Excel.  The RAD file gives count per minute for
each minute recorded, The RAN file logs each event separately with the time.
This includes coincidence information.  Please remember to stop the program
with the STOP button, not the little X in the top right corner.  This will
make sure that all files are closed and allocated memory released back to
the system.

-----Original Message-----
From: John W Samouce [mailto:samouce2@...]
Sent: 03 January 2004 23:03
To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [particledetector] RE: [particle detector] Grand Opening
today!


Hi John,
         I have your BRG program and have been using it connected to a CD
V-700 GM counter (necessary to reverse polarity of audio signal to get
the pulse in the right direction).  But I have no program that recognizes
the .rad and .ran files.  Any suggestions?
Dusty

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:53:18 -0000 "John Murray"
<whatsupdoc@...> writes:
Hi Guys

I'm John Murray from Bristol, UK.  I'm halfway through building my muon
telescope.  The power supply unit is complete.  The first of the (four)
particle detectors has been on soak test over the holiday period.  I'm
using
government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.  Each unit is mounted in a small
section of white plastic waste-pipe, held together by plastic coupling
units
(available at the local plumbers merchants).  I am also constructing some
lead filters that fit in-line so that, hopefully, I will be able to get
some
indication of the energy of the incoming particles.  I am hoping to mount
the whole unit on a computer-controlled equatorial mount and make an
automatic first estimation map of the visible sky.

Also, I have made available copies of BGA.EXE, a program that I wrote
which
runs under Win 95 and 98 and enables Geiger counters to connect directly
to
the serial port of a PC.  It needs a copy of IO.DLL to run.  If you would
like a copy please email me and I will send you one.

Best regards

John Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!



Hi all!

I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
some new members already joined!

Welcome aboard! :-)

Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
Geiger-Müller detector: http://muon.captain.at/
The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
have first results in April or so.

I also thought of building a muon detector with
scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
on the other hand much cheaper.

Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Hi John,
         I have your BRG program and have been using it connected to a CD
V-700 GM counter (necessary to reverse polarity of audio signal to get
the pulse in the right direction).  But I have no program that recognizes
the .rad and .ran files.  Any suggestions?
Dusty

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:53:18 -0000 "John Murray"
<whatsupdoc@...> writes:
Hi Guys

I'm John Murray from Bristol, UK.  I'm halfway through building my muon
telescope.  The power supply unit is complete.  The first of the (four)
particle detectors has been on soak test over the holiday period.  I'm
using
government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.  Each unit is mounted in a small
section of white plastic waste-pipe, held together by plastic coupling
units
(available at the local plumbers merchants).  I am also constructing some
lead filters that fit in-line so that, hopefully, I will be able to get
some
indication of the energy of the incoming particles.  I am hoping to mount
the whole unit on a computer-controlled equatorial mount and make an
automatic first estimation map of the visible sky.

Also, I have made available copies of BGA.EXE, a program that I wrote
which
runs under Win 95 and 98 and enables Geiger counters to connect directly
to
the serial port of a PC.  It needs a copy of IO.DLL to run.  If you would
like a copy please email me and I will send you one.

Best regards

John Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!



Hi all!

I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
some new members already joined!

Welcome aboard! :-)

Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
Geiger-Müller detector: http://muon.captain.at/
The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
have first results in April or so.

I also thought of building a muon detector with
scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
on the other hand much cheaper.

Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+



Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
http://muon.captain.at/


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/particledetector/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings from the beatiful Bitterroot Valley of western Montana
(46N/114W, 4200').
       I have two Aware Electronics RM-70s on order for the heart of
my muon detector.  They will be mounted on a beam about a meter apart
to give them a reception solid angle of one degree.  The beam will be
mounted on a tripod for easy swiveling to any scan angle.  Positioned
under the lower GM tube is a 19 mm lead shield and another 19 mm lead
shield can be positioned between the two GM tubes.  The order should
be here next week.  Will keep you informed.
Dusty

Hi all!

Just to kick off a discussion, here is my yet unresolved
"mystery":

I found these 2 online neutron monitors:
http://cosmicrays.oulu.fi/
http://helios.izmiran.rssi.ru/cosray/main.htm

The 2 graphs show more or less the same variations.
Is the muon densitiy directly proportional to the neutron
density ?

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Hello,

Through the computer club at my school I'm involved in the quarknet
project (quarknet.fnal.gov) and have been directing those in the
comupter club to information that will enable us to develop software
to calculate information about the primary that generated the shower.
The detector that we're using is a composed of two plastic
scintillator slabs, each connected to photomultiplier tube. This
enables us to detect the light from scintillation caused by a passing
muon. Unfortunately, we weren't able to design the detector... it was
designed for us by a group at Argonne National Labs/the teacher's at
my school (they're somewhat affiliated).
York Community High School Computer Club website with more
information on our involvement with quarknet: york.gose.org - Click
on "York Wiki" on the left pane, then "Quarknet" (I had some more
interesting information there but those above me scrapped it in fear
of scaring off new members)
Within the week, I should be able to announce the availibility of
data online from this detector, which is located near Chicago in
Elmhurst, IL, Lat 41 degrees, 53 minutes. Long 87 degrees, 57 minutes.
The detector that we're using and the group that we're involved in is
described here: http://www.phys.washington.edu/~walta/qnet_daq/
Hopefully being in this Yahoo group will enable me to more fully
understand the amateur cosmic ray effort.

-- Michael Sabino

Hi Guys

I'm John Murray from Bristol, UK.  I'm halfway through building my muon
telescope.  The power supply unit is complete.  The first of the (four)
particle detectors has been on soak test over the holiday period.  I'm using
government surplus Geiger Muller tubes.  Each unit is mounted in a small
section of white plastic waste-pipe, held together by plastic coupling units
(available at the local plumbers merchants).  I am also constructing some
lead filters that fit in-line so that, hopefully, I will be able to get some
indication of the energy of the incoming particles.  I am hoping to mount
the whole unit on a computer-controlled equatorial mount and make an
automatic first estimation map of the visible sky.

Also, I have made available copies of BGA.EXE, a program that I wrote which
runs under Win 95 and 98 and enables Geiger counters to connect directly to
the serial port of a PC.  It needs a copy of IO.DLL to run.  If you would
like a copy please email me and I will send you one.

Best regards

John Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Mayer [mailto:captain@...]
Sent: 03 January 2004 12:40
To: particledetector@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [particledetector] Grand Opening today!



Hi all!

I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
some new members already joined!

Welcome aboard! :-)

Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
Geiger-Müller detector: http://muon.captain.at/
The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
have first results in April or so.

I also thought of building a muon detector with
scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
on the other hand much cheaper.

Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+



Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
http://muon.captain.at/


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/particledetector/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  particledetector-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi all!

I just announced this group on other 'related' groups and
some new members already joined!

Welcome aboard! :-)

Today I started with the high voltage power supply for my
Geiger-Müller detector: http://muon.captain.at/
The whole project will take some time, but I expect to
have first results in April or so.

I also thought of building a muon detector with
scintillation material, but scintillators are very expensive
aswell as the photo multipliers, so I decided to build
a Geiger-Müller detector first. It's more complicated, but
on the other hand much cheaper.

Feel free to post an introduction yourself ;-)

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Hi all!

Happy New Year 2004 & All The Best! :-)

Greetings from Austria (2 hours to go and counting ;-)
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Dear Listmembers!

Merry Christmas to all members who celebrate! :-)

All the best from Austria,
Hannes.
--
"Silent Night! Holy Night!" was composed in Austria!
              http://www.stillenacht.at
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Thanks.  That worked on a Win 98 machine but not on the XP machine.
Dusty

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:14:04 +0100 Hannes Mayer <captain@...>
writes:
John W Samouce wrote:

> Somewhere I got two files: "bga.exe" and "IO.DLL" which is called a
> "Background Radiation Analyser".  I get the messages "Unable to start
the
> IO.SYS service." when opening bga.exe and "Error - IO.DLL not
installed"
> when program opens.
>
>>From where did this come?  In the "About BGA" the Sonyata Composite Ltd
> is noted.  Where can I find out more about it?  FAQ?  How do I start
the
> IO.SYS service?  How is the IO.DLL installed?
>
> This seems like it can be used as a software equivalent of a
coincidence
> circuit from two Geiger counters to detect muons.

Hi John!

Try copying the IO.DLL into the directory where Windows keeps all DLL's.
In W2k that would be WINNT\system32

On the other hand, I didn't find the company on google, so I assume they
do not exist any longer. I conclude that this software must be older, so
it probably won't run on W2k or WXP. These 2 windows don't allow direct
access to the parallel/serial port...

But if you have got a box with W98 around somewhere, try copying the DLL.

Let us know if you manage to run it and what it is about.

Cheers,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+




Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
http://muon.captain.at/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John W Samouce wrote:

> Somewhere I got two files: "bga.exe" and "IO.DLL" which is called a
> "Background Radiation Analyser".  I get the messages "Unable to start the
> IO.SYS service." when opening bga.exe and "Error - IO.DLL not installed"
> when program opens.
>
>>From where did this come?  In the "About BGA" the Sonyata Composite Ltd
> is noted.  Where can I find out more about it?  FAQ?  How do I start the
> IO.SYS service?  How is the IO.DLL installed?
>
> This seems like it can be used as a software equivalent of a coincidence
> circuit from two Geiger counters to detect muons.

Hi John!

Try copying the IO.DLL into the directory where Windows keeps all DLL's.
In W2k that would be WINNT\system32

On the other hand, I didn't find the company on google, so I assume they
do not exist any longer. I conclude that this software must be older, so
it probably won't run on W2k or WXP. These 2 windows don't allow direct
access to the parallel/serial port...

But if you have got a box with W98 around somewhere, try copying the DLL.

Let us know if you manage to run it and what it is about.

Cheers,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

Somewhere I got two files: "bga.exe" and "IO.DLL" which is called a
"Background Radiation Analyser".  I get the messages "Unable to start the
IO.SYS service." when opening bga.exe and "Error - IO.DLL not installed"
when program opens.

From where did this come?  In the "About BGA" the Sonyata Composite Ltd
is noted.  Where can I find out more about it?  FAQ?  How do I start the
IO.SYS service?  How is the IO.DLL installed?

This seems like it can be used as a software equivalent of a coincidence
circuit from two Geiger counters to detect muons.

Dusty

John W Samouce wrote:
> P.S. I noted that the attachment (not-text portion of ...) was deleted.
> Anyone wanting this attachment send me an e-mail and I will e-mail it
> back to you.
> Dusty
>
> On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:35:07 -0700 John W Samouce <samouce2@...>
> writes:
> I found a unique application of the Radio - SkyPipe strip charting
> program that some of you might find useful.  Basically the program will
> chart any audio feed to your computer's sound card.  I inputted the
> headphone output from a Geiger counter to it and recorded the radiation
> background (RadBG) "clicks"

Hi John!

So the group is opened :-)

Yes, the SkyPipe has many yet 'undiscovered' uses. People also suggested
it to use it for recording data of our magnetometers:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/magnetometer/ ;-)

Please send me the jpg/gif - I will upload it to the groups-filespace.

..running to work now...

Greetings,
Hannes.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
|   Captain's Universe    www.captain.at              |
|   Earth Magnetometer    www.magnetometer.captain.at |
|   Muon      Detector    www.muon.captain.at         |
|   Mars Base dot  Net    www.marsbase.net            |
|   Bryophyllum Plants    www.bryophyllum.com         |
|   JupiterRadio Astro    www.jupiterradio.com        |
|   Fossils in Austria    www.fossils.captain.at      |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

P.S. I noted that the attachment (not-text portion of ...) was deleted.
Anyone wanting this attachment send me an e-mail and I will e-mail it
back to you.
Dusty

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:35:07 -0700 John W Samouce <samouce2@...>
writes:
I found a unique application of the Radio - SkyPipe strip charting
program that some of you might find useful.  Basically the program will
chart any audio feed to your computer's sound card.  I inputted the
headphone output from a Geiger counter to it and recorded the radiation
background (RadBG) "clicks" (see attached .jpg - ignore the title as it
is usually used to record Jovian and Solar events with a Project JOVE
antenna/receiver).  The standard edition of the program is free and can
be downloaded from http://www.radiosky.com/skypipeishere.html .  The
"Pro" edition is need to produce images like the attachment and costs
about $40.
Dusty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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ADVERTISEMENT




Visit the Groups-Homepage at:
http://muon.captain.at/
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I found a unique application of the Radio - SkyPipe strip charting
program that some of you might find useful.  Basically the program will
chart any audio feed to your computer's sound card.  I inputted the
headphone output from a Geiger counter to it and recorded the radiation
background (RadBG) "clicks" (see attached .jpg - ignore the title as it
is usually used to record Jovian and Solar events with a Project JOVE
antenna/receiver).  The standard edition of the program is free and can
be downloaded from http://www.radiosky.com/skypipeishere.html .  The
"Pro" edition is need to produce images like the attachment and costs
about $40.
Dusty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the archive:

Oct. 24th, 2003:

The Groups-Home is online at:
http://muon.captain.at/

Visit the site for a detailed description, schematics
and information about the

Cosmic Ray Muon Particle Detector
Counting Particles from Space

-Captain