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#19906 From: "khalel_23" <khalel_23@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:45 am
Subject: Re: Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets 		khalel_23
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
Try to look at Liferay, though not a framework but an overall solution for
portal and social collaboration with drag-drop widgets/application.

My first post in PinoyJUG by the way. Cheers.

Gene Dolorical Jr.

--- In pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com, "noelbranz" <noelbranz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Is there anybody experienced developing a community-based interaction web app,
with cool drag and drop configurable widgets.
>
> Do you of any UI framewokr used?
>
> I only know of Zapatec.
>
> Do you have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
> -NOEL BRANZUELA
>

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#19905 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:34 am
Subject: Re: Web Service Frameworks 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
My reply might not be too helpful :)

It's been a while, as far as I remember, at the time we were evaluating web services, Axis2 and Metro were still in development mode. CXF on the other hand was the most mature of the pack then, including better tools support and better documentation everywhere. Axis 1 as I recall was painful to work with then. Maybe different now with Axis 2.

So we went ahead and used CXF and upgrading at major version releases as much as we can.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...> wrote:
 

Hello Michael,

Thanks for the tips.  I sure do hope we have the option to stay away from the WS-* altogether. 

Anyway, was there any reason why you chose CXF over Axis2 or Metro for example?  If so, care to share the evaluation process and the results that finally led to CXF?

Joen



On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...> wrote:
 

We've been using CXF for a while now and, few problems aside, does an ok job for us. Should be pretty straight forward to use, but just steer clear from possible classpath clashes with libraries that is built-in to the jvm (xerces, etc).

Although if I were you, I'd stay away from WS-deathstar altogether and go for more lightweight solutions (REST, Burlap/Hessian/HTTPInvoker, etc)



On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks? We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with. Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen





Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19904 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:27 am
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
A bit off-topic, but there's also a trend of doing full-stacks (again?). from rails/grails frontend to backend frameworks, to springsource delivering the IDE, the frameworks, the environment monitoring, etc. in the greater scheme of things, i do agree the future, if not the now, is polyglot programming. but if this trend continues, it will also turn out to be a fight between who bundles the best, with the best synergy of tools, including languages.


On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Alistair Israel <aisrael@...> wrote:
 

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...> wrote:

> for one, fact remains that without that killer app like what rails did for ruby, scala is still a theoretical
> silver bullet that no one uses. and yes, twitter is still not that killer app.

From my perspective, there'll be no more killer apps that'll propel a
language or platform to stardom. Yup.

Instead, and what I'm seeing, is systems, platforms, applications and
the languages their built on are all diverging to the point that no
one language or platform is the 'best fit' for all problem domains.

We're already well into polyglot software engineering. Consider a Web
app with CSS, Javascript, HTML generated by the ERB of a JRuby on
Rails app running with Java EJBs in the back-end querying databases
using JPQL + SQL. All assembled, deployed and configured using XML.

Maybe Google's Go is better for systems programming. Maybe concurrent,
message-queue type problems can be better solved using a program in
Erlang.

Maybe Groovy+Grails or (J)Ruby+Rails are best fit for AJAX-y Web apps.
Maybe Scala is better than Java for the overall back-end, Scheme may
be best for rule-based systems, and Flex may be better than CSS 3 +
HTML 5 + Javascript 2.0 for RIA.

Whatever the case, we'll be using the language best fit for the
specific problem domain. Or, we'll keep coming up with new languages
tailored for particular problems.


- a
--
http://alistairisrael.wordpress.com


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19903 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:21 am
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
killer app is something that propels a certain language, OS, etc to wider adoption. twitter didn't really help scala gaining new users. twitter is a huge success, but a killer app in this definition, nup

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 5:43 AM, bien bien <bienbenigno@...> wrote:
 

If twitter is not a killer app, what's a killer app then? Scala also has Lift web framework which is more or less can be compared to Rails or Grails. And yes, Scala is still more of an academic/hobbyist language and probably won't be the "next Java". But we are slowly seeing an emerging era of polygot programming where there's always a diverse and better tool/solution for a particular domain.

From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:48:31
Subject: Re: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 

aren't we tired of hearing "java is dead" and "java is the new cobol?" :-P

for one, fact remains that without that killer app like what rails did for ruby, scala is still a theoretical silver bullet that no one uses. and yes, twitter is still not that killer app. i don't think there isn't any jvm-bound language at the moment with the same traction java had that could push it to the critical mass. do hope to be proven wrong though

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@yahoo. com> wrote:
 

It just the same as theory that the Java is a replacement of Cobol but it is just a theory because there are still plenty of Fortune 500 company still using the mainframe COBOL CICS.

From: Giancarlo Angulo <igan.long@gmail. com>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroup s.com

Sent: Wed, Novemberl 11, 2009 3:01:15 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 


Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

Don't get me wrong - I've written tons of Java over the last decade or so & think its been a great evolutionary step from C++ and Smalltalk (lots of other languages have helped too like JavaScript, Ruby, Groovy, Python etc). However I've long wanted a long term replacement to javac. I even created a language to scratch this itch.

Java is a surprisingly complex language (the spec is 600 pages and does anyone really grok generics in Java?), with its autoboxing (and lovely NPE's hiding in there), primitive types, icky arrays which are not collections & general lack of polymorphism across strings/text/ buffers/collecti ons/arrays along with extremely verbose syntax for working with any kind of data structure & bean properties and still no closures (even in JDK7) which leads to tons of icky try/catch/finally crapola unless you use frameworks with new custom APIs & yet more complexity. Java even has type inference, it just refuses to use it to let us save any typing/reading.


This issue becomes even more pressing with there being no Java7 (which is even more relevant after Snorcle - I wonder if javac is gonna be replaced with jdkc? :). So I guess javac has kinda reached its pinacle; closures look unlikely as does any kind of simplification or progression.

So whats gonna be the long term replacement for javac? Certainly the dynamic languages like Ruby, Groovy, Python, JavaScript have been getting very popular the last few years - lots of folks like them.

Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.

So why Scala? Scala is statically typed and compiles down to the same fast bytecode as Java so its usually about as fast as Java (sometimes a little faster sometimes a little slower). e.g. compare how well Scala does in some benchmarks with groovy or jruby. Or this. Note speed isn't everything - there are times when you might want to trade code thats 10x slower for more productivity and conciseness; but for a long term replacement for javac speed is important.

Yet Scala has type inference - so its typically as concise as Ruby/Groovy but that everything has static types. This is a good thing; it makes code comprehension, navigation & documentation much simpler. Any token/method/ symbol you can click on to navigate to the actual implementation code & documentation. No wacky monkey patching involved, or doubting of who added a method, when and how - which is great for large projects with lots of folks working on the same code over long periods of time. Scala seems to hit the perfect sweet spot between the consise feel of a dynamic language, while actually being completely statically typed. So I never have to remember the magic methods that are available - or run a script in a shell then inspect the object to see what it really looks like - the IDE/compiler just knows while you edit.

Scala has high order functions and closure support along with sequence comprehensions so you can write beautifully concise code. Scala also unifies functional and OO paradigms beautifully together into a language thats considerably simpler than Java (though the type system is of a similar order to truly understand than generics - but then thats usually an issue for framework creators rather than application code developers). It also lets folks gradually migrate from a traiditional OO/Java way of coding to a more functional way - which is particularly relevant for folks writing concurrent or asynchronous code (which due to the GHz of chips no longer going up but instead we're getting more cores is becoming more necessary). You can start the OO way and migrate to using immutable state if/when you need its benefits. Increasingly functional programming is becoming more and more important as we try and make things more concise and higher level (e.g. closures, higher order functions, pattern matching, monads etc) as well as dealing with concurrency and asynchrony via immutable state etc.

Scala also has proper mixins (traits) so you don't have to muck about with AOP wackiness to get nice modular code. There's even structural types in case you really do need some duck typing.

The thing which most impresses me is the core language syntax is pretty small and simple (the spec is about a quarter the size of Java's); but its way more powerful and flexible and is very easy to extend in libraries to add new semantics and features. For example see the Scala Actors. So its ideal for creating either embedded DSLs or external DSLs. There's really no need to have Java , XPath, XSLT, XQuery, JSP, JSTL, EL and SQL - you can just use Scala with some DSLs here and there (examples of this later...).

Scala does take a little bit of getting used to - I confess the first few times I looked at Scala it wasn't that pleasing on the eye - with Java you're kinda used to dumb verbose code which doesn't do very much - it can be quite a shock to see quite a few symbols at first. (It took me a while to get over the use of _ in scala which is the 'wildcard' symbol since * is an identifier/method) .

If you've been doing lots of Java then Scala does feel quite different at first - (e.g. the order of types & identifiers in method/variable/ parameter declarations - though the reason for that is to make it easy to miss out redundant type information) .

e.g. in Java
List<String> list = new ArrayList<String>()
in Scala
val list = new List[String]
or if you want to specify exact typing
val list : List[String] = new List[String]
However if you keep at it, the beauty of Scala soon becomes apparent; its simplified so many of the gremlins in the Java language, allows you to write very concise code describing the intent behind the code rather than the implementation cruft - together with providing a nice migration path to elegant functional programming which is awesome for building concurrent or distributed software.

I highly recommend you take a look at Scala - with an open mind - and see if (once you're brain adjusts) you can see its beauty too.

Some scala links and online presentations
If you have a spare hour or so these video talks are great to watch
Handy Scala frameworks and libraries
  • liftweb the rails of scala
  • specs and ScalaTest for BDD and more literate testing showing how a typesafe DSL can help you write more consise and expressive code that is very IDE friendly
  • scalaz a handy library of utilities
  • dispatch for working with HTTP/JSON services
BTW for those like me who love JAXRS you can now use lift templates with Jersey via the new jersey-lift module.

As an example of this in action you can check out RestMQ which is an open source project I've been working on lately to provide a RESTful API and web console to message orientated middleware which is built on JAXRS (Jersey), Scala and Lift.

From a tooling perspective there's Ant/Maven plugins, an interactive Scala console (REPL) and IDE plugins for IDEA, Eclipse, NetBeans along with the usual editors (TextMate/Emacs etc). The IDE plugins are not yet up to the Java grade, but they are very useful with good code navigation & completion.

I've tried the plugins for NetBeans, Eclipse and IDEA they all have strengths and weaknesses; it seems Scala folks are split between them all. For code navigation and completion along with maven support I've found IDEA to be quite good. When you open a Maven pom.xml it seems to grok the code nicely, finding the scala source so you can navigate through any type/method to see its documentation/ source etc. (You do typically have to manually add the Scala facet to run/debug stuff). Though IDEA is not always the best at highlighting syntax errors as you type. They could all use some work to bring them up to line with their Java counterparts though - try them out and see which you prefer.

Scala nits
With any language there's gonna be bits you love and bits you're not so keen on. Early impressions of Scala do seem like there's a bit of an attempt to use a few too many symbols :-; but you don't have to use them all - you can stick to the Java-ish OO side of the fence if you like. But then I guess longer term its probably better to use symbols for the 'special stuff' to avoid clashing with identifiers etc.

I'm not a massive fan of the nested import statement, using _root_.java. util.List to differentiate a 'global' import from a relative import.. I'd have preferred a child prefix. e.g. if you have imported com.acme.cheese. model.Foo then to import model.impl.FooImpl i'd prefer an explicit relative prefix, say: import _.impl.FooImpl which would simplify things a little and more in keeping with Scala's attempt at simplifying things and removing cruft (being polymorphic to import java.util._) .

However compared to all the massive hairy warts in Java, these downsides of Scala are tiny compared to the beauty, simplicity and power of Scala.

Conclusion
Given that MrJava, MrJRuby and MrGroovy are all tipping Scala as javac's long term replacement, there might be something in it. So what are you waiting for; get the Programming in Scala book or the O'Reilly Scala book and start having fun :)

=====
angol
=====
-----|-^_^X@ ^_^, =====|+^_^X+ +~_~,@--- --
"The only thing worse than a hopeless romantic is a hopeful one"
Magbasa bago Mamuna. Mag-isip bago mambatikos
Without Truth there is no Justice, Without Justice, there is Tyranny
Semper fi
Proof of Desire is Pursuit
www.onthe8spot. com
http://www.facebook .com/giancarlo. angulo
http://twitter. com/Neoryder
09173822367




Have a new Yahoo! Mail account?
Kick start your journey by importing all your contacts!


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19902 From: bien bien <bienbenigno@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		bienbenigno
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
If twitter is not a killer app, what's a killer app then? Scala also has Lift web framework which is more or less can be compared to Rails or Grails. And yes, Scala is still more of an academic/hobbyist language and probably won't be the "next Java". But we are slowly seeing an emerging era of polygot programming where there's always a diverse and better tool/solution for a particular domain.

From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:48:31
Subject: Re: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 

aren't we tired of hearing "java is dead" and "java is the new cobol?" :-P

for one, fact remains that without that killer app like what rails did for ruby, scala is still a theoretical silver bullet that no one uses. and yes, twitter is still not that killer app. i don't think there isn't any jvm-bound language at the moment with the same traction java had that could push it to the critical mass. do hope to be proven wrong though

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@yahoo. com> wrote:
 

It just the same as theory that the Java is a replacement of Cobol but it is just a theory because there are still plenty of Fortune 500 company still using the mainframe COBOL CICS.

From: Giancarlo Angulo <igan.long@gmail. com>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroup s.com
Sent: Wed, Novemberl 11, 2009 3:01:15 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 


Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

Don't get me wrong - I've written tons of Java over the last decade or so & think its been a great evolutionary step from C++ and Smalltalk (lots of other languages have helped too like JavaScript, Ruby, Groovy, Python etc). However I've long wanted a long term replacement to javac. I even created a language to scratch this itch.

Java is a surprisingly complex language (the spec is 600 pages and does anyone really grok generics in Java?), with its autoboxing (and lovely NPE's hiding in there), primitive types, icky arrays which are not collections & general lack of polymorphism across strings/text/ buffers/collecti ons/arrays along with extremely verbose syntax for working with any kind of data structure & bean properties and still no closures (even in JDK7) which leads to tons of icky try/catch/finally crapola unless you use frameworks with new custom APIs & yet more complexity. Java even has type inference, it just refuses to use it to let us save any typing/reading.


This issue becomes even more pressing with there being no Java7 (which is even more relevant after Snorcle - I wonder if javac is gonna be replaced with jdkc? :). So I guess javac has kinda reached its pinacle; closures look unlikely as does any kind of simplification or progression.

So whats gonna be the long term replacement for javac? Certainly the dynamic languages like Ruby, Groovy, Python, JavaScript have been getting very popular the last few years - lots of folks like them.

Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.

So why Scala? Scala is statically typed and compiles down to the same fast bytecode as Java so its usually about as fast as Java (sometimes a little faster sometimes a little slower). e.g. compare how well Scala does in some benchmarks with groovy or jruby. Or this. Note speed isn't everything - there are times when you might want to trade code thats 10x slower for more productivity and conciseness; but for a long term replacement for javac speed is important.

Yet Scala has type inference - so its typically as concise as Ruby/Groovy but that everything has static types. This is a good thing; it makes code comprehension, navigation & documentation much simpler. Any token/method/ symbol you can click on to navigate to the actual implementation code & documentation. No wacky monkey patching involved, or doubting of who added a method, when and how - which is great for large projects with lots of folks working on the same code over long periods of time. Scala seems to hit the perfect sweet spot between the consise feel of a dynamic language, while actually being completely statically typed. So I never have to remember the magic methods that are available - or run a script in a shell then inspect the object to see what it really looks like - the IDE/compiler just knows while you edit.

Scala has high order functions and closure support along with sequence comprehensions so you can write beautifully concise code. Scala also unifies functional and OO paradigms beautifully together into a language thats considerably simpler than Java (though the type system is of a similar order to truly understand than generics - but then thats usually an issue for framework creators rather than application code developers). It also lets folks gradually migrate from a traiditional OO/Java way of coding to a more functional way - which is particularly relevant for folks writing concurrent or asynchronous code (which due to the GHz of chips no longer going up but instead we're getting more cores is becoming more necessary). You can start the OO way and migrate to using immutable state if/when you need its benefits. Increasingly functional programming is becoming more and more important as we try and make things more concise and higher level (e.g. closures, higher order functions, pattern matching, monads etc) as well as dealing with concurrency and asynchrony via immutable state etc.

Scala also has proper mixins (traits) so you don't have to muck about with AOP wackiness to get nice modular code. There's even structural types in case you really do need some duck typing.

The thing which most impresses me is the core language syntax is pretty small and simple (the spec is about a quarter the size of Java's); but its way more powerful and flexible and is very easy to extend in libraries to add new semantics and features. For example see the Scala Actors. So its ideal for creating either embedded DSLs or external DSLs. There's really no need to have Java , XPath, XSLT, XQuery, JSP, JSTL, EL and SQL - you can just use Scala with some DSLs here and there (examples of this later...).

Scala does take a little bit of getting used to - I confess the first few times I looked at Scala it wasn't that pleasing on the eye - with Java you're kinda used to dumb verbose code which doesn't do very much - it can be quite a shock to see quite a few symbols at first. (It took me a while to get over the use of _ in scala which is the 'wildcard' symbol since * is an identifier/method) .

If you've been doing lots of Java then Scala does feel quite different at first - (e.g. the order of types & identifiers in method/variable/ parameter declarations - though the reason for that is to make it easy to miss out redundant type information) .

e.g. in Java
List<String> list = new ArrayList<String>()
in Scala
val list = new List[String]
or if you want to specify exact typing
val list : List[String] = new List[String]
However if you keep at it, the beauty of Scala soon becomes apparent; its simplified so many of the gremlins in the Java language, allows you to write very concise code describing the intent behind the code rather than the implementation cruft - together with providing a nice migration path to elegant functional programming which is awesome for building concurrent or distributed software.

I highly recommend you take a look at Scala - with an open mind - and see if (once you're brain adjusts) you can see its beauty too.

Some scala links and online presentations
If you have a spare hour or so these video talks are great to watch
Handy Scala frameworks and libraries
  • liftweb the rails of scala
  • specs and ScalaTest for BDD and more literate testing showing how a typesafe DSL can help you write more consise and expressive code that is very IDE friendly
  • scalaz a handy library of utilities
  • dispatch for working with HTTP/JSON services
BTW for those like me who love JAXRS you can now use lift templates with Jersey via the new jersey-lift module.

As an example of this in action you can check out RestMQ which is an open source project I've been working on lately to provide a RESTful API and web console to message orientated middleware which is built on JAXRS (Jersey), Scala and Lift.

From a tooling perspective there's Ant/Maven plugins, an interactive Scala console (REPL) and IDE plugins for IDEA, Eclipse, NetBeans along with the usual editors (TextMate/Emacs etc). The IDE plugins are not yet up to the Java grade, but they are very useful with good code navigation & completion.

I've tried the plugins for NetBeans, Eclipse and IDEA they all have strengths and weaknesses; it seems Scala folks are split between them all. For code navigation and completion along with maven support I've found IDEA to be quite good. When you open a Maven pom.xml it seems to grok the code nicely, finding the scala source so you can navigate through any type/method to see its documentation/ source etc. (You do typically have to manually add the Scala facet to run/debug stuff). Though IDEA is not always the best at highlighting syntax errors as you type. They could all use some work to bring them up to line with their Java counterparts though - try them out and see which you prefer.

Scala nits
With any language there's gonna be bits you love and bits you're not so keen on. Early impressions of Scala do seem like there's a bit of an attempt to use a few too many symbols :-; but you don't have to use them all - you can stick to the Java-ish OO side of the fence if you like. But then I guess longer term its probably better to use symbols for the 'special stuff' to avoid clashing with identifiers etc.

I'm not a massive fan of the nested import statement, using _root_.java. util.List to differentiate a 'global' import from a relative import.. I'd have preferred a child prefix. e.g. if you have imported com.acme.cheese. model.Foo then to import model.impl.FooImpl i'd prefer an explicit relative prefix, say: import _.impl.FooImpl which would simplify things a little and more in keeping with Scala's attempt at simplifying things and removing cruft (being polymorphic to import java.util._) .

However compared to all the massive hairy warts in Java, these downsides of Scala are tiny compared to the beauty, simplicity and power of Scala.

Conclusion
Given that MrJava, MrJRuby and MrGroovy are all tipping Scala as javac's long term replacement, there might be something in it. So what are you waiting for; get the Programming in Scala book or the O'Reilly Scala book and start having fun :)

=====
angol
=====
-----|-^_^X@ ^_^, =====|+^_^X+ +~_~,@--- --
"The only thing worse than a hopeless romantic is a hopeful one"
Magbasa bago Mamuna. Mag-isip bago mambatikos
Without Truth there is no Justice, Without Justice, there is Tyranny
Semper fi
Proof of Desire is Pursuit
www.onthe8spot. com
http://www.facebook .com/giancarlo. angulo
http://twitter. com/Neoryder
09173822367




Have a new Yahoo! Mail account?
Kick start your journey by importing all your contacts!

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19901 From: Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:40 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		mparaz
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Jeff Gutierrez <jeff@...> wrote:
> I actually gave up trying to get my MacBook setup for Java development. I
tried a few times but ended up falling short on a number of things -- JDK
version, Eclipse, tools, VPN, etc. Now I have Ubuntu/Jaunty on my MacBook, and
have found myself to be more productive.
>
> The tough part was convincing myself to dump MacOS X. But once I got Eclipse
and my dev environment all setup, I got over the fact that I could have bought a
laptop that was 1/2 the price of my MacBook. :)

I'm using Ubuntu on my personal machine at home; the Mac is my work
machine. Looks like swapping this for a "PC" laptop is a good idea. (I
don't like the idea of running other OS on the Mac, seems like a
waste.)

But not so long ago... the Mac was supposed to be a great environment
for Java dev. What happened??

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19900 From: Alistair Israel <aisrael@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:27 am
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		aisrael
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...> wrote:

> for one, fact remains that without that killer app like what rails did for
ruby, scala is still a theoretical
> silver bullet that no one uses. and yes, twitter is still not that killer app.

From my perspective, there'll be no more killer apps that'll propel a
language or platform to stardom. Yup.

Instead, and what I'm seeing, is systems, platforms, applications and
the languages their built on are all diverging to the point that no
one language or platform is the 'best fit' for all problem domains.

We're already well into polyglot software engineering. Consider a Web
app with CSS, Javascript, HTML generated by the ERB of a JRuby on
Rails app running with Java EJBs in the back-end querying databases
using JPQL + SQL. All assembled, deployed and configured using XML.

Maybe Google's Go is better for systems programming. Maybe concurrent,
message-queue type problems can be better solved using a program in
Erlang.

Maybe Groovy+Grails or (J)Ruby+Rails are best fit for AJAX-y Web apps.
Maybe Scala is better than Java for the overall back-end, Scheme may
be best for rule-based systems, and Flex may be better than CSS 3 +
HTML 5 + Javascript 2.0 for RIA.

Whatever the case, we'll be using the language best fit for the
specific problem domain. Or, we'll keep coming up with new languages
tailored for particular problems.

- a
--
http://alistairisrael.wordpress.com

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19899 From: Alistair Israel <aisrael@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:31 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		aisrael
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Jeff Gutierrez <jeff@...> wrote:

> I actually gave up trying to get my MacBook setup for Java development. I
tried a few times but
> ended up falling short on a number of things -- JDK version, Eclipse, tools,
VPN, etc. Now I have
> Ubuntu/Jaunty on my MacBook, and have found myself to be more productive.

Strange. On the contrary, at our shop we all use OS X for Java
development. Some are still on 10.5 (Leopard) and using the stock JDK
1.5.0 with Eclipse Ganymede.

Some (like me) are on Snow leopard, using the 64-bit Cocoa version of
Galileo on Java 1.6.0.

We're all quite productive, with no real issues (save the occasional
plug-in dependency mismatch).

- a
--
http://alistairisrael.wordpress.com

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19898 From: "Joselito D. Moreno" <joenmoreno@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:23 pm
Subject: Re: Web Service Frameworks 		joenm
Offline Offline
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Hello Michael,

Thanks for the tips.  I sure do hope we have the option to stay away from the WS-* altogether. 

Anyway, was there any reason why you chose CXF over Axis2 or Metro for example?  If so, care to share the evaluation process and the results that finally led to CXF?

Joen

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:54 PM, Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...> wrote:
 

We've been using CXF for a while now and, few problems aside, does an ok job for us. Should be pretty straight forward to use, but just steer clear from possible classpath clashes with libraries that is built-in to the jvm (xerces, etc).

Although if I were you, I'd stay away from WS-deathstar altogether and go for more lightweight solutions (REST, Burlap/Hessian/HTTPInvoker, etc)



On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks? We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with. Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19897 From: Rey Bumalay <core_reyj@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:59 am
Subject: Re: Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets 		core_reyj
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
JBoss Richfaces is another one. There is an available plugin for eclipse called "JBoss Tools" to easily use their component on your projects.
From: Jerwin Louise Uy <uy.jerwin@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 11:24:54 AM
Subject: Re: [pinoyjug] Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets

 

Try looking at ICEFaces. They also support portal and mobile applications.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM, noelbranz <noelbranz@gmail. com> wrote:
 

Hi,

Is there anybody experienced developing a community-based interaction web app, with cool drag and drop configurable widgets.

Do you of any UI framewokr used?

I only know of Zapatec.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

-NOEL BRANZUELA




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#19896 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:31 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		type.arche
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I end up using VM Fusion and run XP guest on my Mac Book and install Eclipse to my XP Guest. :D

From: Jeff Gutierrez <jeff@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:25:52 AM
Subject: Re: [pinoyjug] Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems

 

Migz,

I actually gave up trying to get my MacBook setup for Java development. I tried a few times but ended up falling short on a number of things -- JDK version, Eclipse, tools, VPN, etc. Now I have Ubuntu/Jaunty on my MacBook, and have found myself to be more productive.

The tough part was convincing myself to dump MacOS X. But once I got Eclipse and my dev environment all setup, I got over the fact that I could have bought a laptop that was 1/2 the price of my MacBook. :)

Regards,
Jeff

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Miguel Paraz <mparaz@gmail. com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I experienced that also before. Are you using 64 or 32 bit?

JDK is 64-bit Java 6 - I think there's no 32-bit Java 6 on Mac (or at
least on Leopard)
OS is Leopard, which I think is 32-bit.

I went back to Cocoa, and it seems to be fine again, without me doing anything.


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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19895 From: Jerwin Louise Uy <uy.jerwin@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:24 am
Subject: Re: Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets 		mojo17jojo
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Try looking at ICEFaces. They also support portal and mobile applications.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM, noelbranz <noelbranz@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

Is there anybody experienced developing a community-based interaction web app, with cool drag and drop configurable widgets.

Do you of any UI framewokr used?

I only know of Zapatec.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

-NOEL BRANZUELA



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#19894 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:00 am
Subject: Re: Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets 		type.arche
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I used YUI and also JQuery. It's free to use but it needs time to create your own widget. In designing a cool theme for my widget, I do it on CS4 PhotoShop and convert it to image sliced and make it a CSS. Or, if you're familiar with Flex, Flex is also cool for creating widget because it is easy to develop using the Flex Builder.

From: noelbranz <noelbranz@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 11:08:45 PM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets

 

Hi,

Is there anybody experienced developing a community-based interaction web app, with cool drag and drop configurable widgets.

Do you of any UI framewokr used?

I only know of Zapatec.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

-NOEL BRANZUELA



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#19893 From: Jeff Gutierrez <jeff@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		jeffgoot
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Migz,

I actually gave up trying to get my MacBook setup for Java development. I tried a few times but ended up falling short on a number of things -- JDK version, Eclipse, tools, VPN, etc. Now I have Ubuntu/Jaunty on my MacBook, and have found myself to be more productive.

The tough part was convincing myself to dump MacOS X. But once I got Eclipse and my dev environment all setup, I got over the fact that I could have bought a laptop that was 1/2 the price of my MacBook. :)

Regards,
Jeff

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@...> wrote:
> I experienced that also before. Are you using 64 or 32 bit?

JDK is 64-bit Java 6 - I think there's no 32-bit Java 6 on Mac (or at
least on Leopard)
OS is Leopard, which I think is 32-bit.

I went back to Cocoa, and it seems to be fine again, without me doing anything.


------------------------------------

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19892 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:54 am
Subject: Re: Web Service Frameworks 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
We've been using CXF for a while now and, few problems aside, does an ok job for us. Should be pretty straight forward to use, but just steer clear from possible classpath clashes with libraries that is built-in to the jvm (xerces, etc).

Although if I were you, I'd stay away from WS-deathstar altogether and go for more lightweight solutions (REST, Burlap/Hessian/HTTPInvoker, etc)

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks? We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with. Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19891 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
eclipse cocoa 64 bit works fine for me, but i'm on snow leopard. i've read somewhere that if you're on leopard, the best one is the carbon build. sorry i can't find the link anymore for the technical explanation, but you seem to be a good indicator that it is valid ;-) . i don't think they will make a 64 bit version for this anymore since they will probably go full steam with cocoa from hereon.

snow leopard has both 32 bit and 64 bit. 32 bit only for leopard. on the other hand, you may want to try out running eclipse using java 5 in leopard (which is actually more advisable), and just point your compilers to java 6.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...> wrote:
 

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@...> wrote:
> I experienced that also before. Are you using 64 or 32 bit?

JDK is 64-bit Java 6 - I think there's no 32-bit Java 6 on Mac (or at
least on Leopard)
OS is Leopard, which I think is 32-bit.

I went back to Cocoa, and it seems to be fine again, without me doing anything.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19890 From: Michael Mallete <mrmallete@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:48 am
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		mykmallete
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
aren't we tired of hearing "java is dead" and "java is the new cobol?" :-P

for one, fact remains that without that killer app like what rails did for ruby, scala is still a theoretical silver bullet that no one uses. and yes, twitter is still not that killer app. i don't think there isn't any jvm-bound language at the moment with the same traction java had that could push it to the critical mass. do hope to be proven wrong though

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@...> wrote:
 

It just the same as theory that the Java is a replacement of Cobol but it is just a theory because there are still plenty of Fortune 500 company still using the mainframe COBOL CICS.

From: Giancarlo Angulo <igan.long@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Novemberl 11, 2009 3:01:15 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 


Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

Don't get me wrong - I've written tons of Java over the last decade or so & think its been a great evolutionary step from C++ and Smalltalk (lots of other languages have helped too like JavaScript, Ruby, Groovy, Python etc). However I've long wanted a long term replacement to javac. I even created a language to scratch this itch.

Java is a surprisingly complex language (the spec is 600 pages and does anyone really grok generics in Java?), with its autoboxing (and lovely NPE's hiding in there), primitive types, icky arrays which are not collections & general lack of polymorphism across strings/text/ buffers/collecti ons/arrays along with extremely verbose syntax for working with any kind of data structure & bean properties and still no closures (even in JDK7) which leads to tons of icky try/catch/finally crapola unless you use frameworks with new custom APIs & yet more complexity. Java even has type inference, it just refuses to use it to let us save any typing/reading.


This issue becomes even more pressing with there being no Java7 (which is even more relevant after Snorcle - I wonder if javac is gonna be replaced with jdkc? :). So I guess javac has kinda reached its pinacle; closures look unlikely as does any kind of simplification or progression.

So whats gonna be the long term replacement for javac? Certainly the dynamic languages like Ruby, Groovy, Python, JavaScript have been getting very popular the last few years - lots of folks like them.

Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.

So why Scala? Scala is statically typed and compiles down to the same fast bytecode as Java so its usually about as fast as Java (sometimes a little faster sometimes a little slower). e.g. compare how well Scala does in some benchmarks with groovy or jruby. Or this. Note speed isn't everything - there are times when you might want to trade code thats 10x slower for more productivity and conciseness; but for a long term replacement for javac speed is important.

Yet Scala has type inference - so its typically as concise as Ruby/Groovy but that everything has static types. This is a good thing; it makes code comprehension, navigation & documentation much simpler. Any token/method/ symbol you can click on to navigate to the actual implementation code & documentation. No wacky monkey patching involved, or doubting of who added a method, when and how - which is great for large projects with lots of folks working on the same code over long periods of time. Scala seems to hit the perfect sweet spot between the consise feel of a dynamic language, while actually being completely statically typed. So I never have to remember the magic methods that are available - or run a script in a shell then inspect the object to see what it really looks like - the IDE/compiler just knows while you edit.

Scala has high order functions and closure support along with sequence comprehensions so you can write beautifully concise code. Scala also unifies functional and OO paradigms beautifully together into a language thats considerably simpler than Java (though the type system is of a similar order to truly understand than generics - but then thats usually an issue for framework creators rather than application code developers). It also lets folks gradually migrate from a traiditional OO/Java way of coding to a more functional way - which is particularly relevant for folks writing concurrent or asynchronous code (which due to the GHz of chips no longer going up but instead we're getting more cores is becoming more necessary). You can start the OO way and migrate to using immutable state if/when you need its benefits. Increasingly functional programming is becoming more and more important as we try and make things more concise and higher level (e.g. closures, higher order functions, pattern matching, monads etc) as well as dealing with concurrency and asynchrony via immutable state etc.

Scala also has proper mixins (traits) so you don't have to muck about with AOP wackiness to get nice modular code. There's even structural types in case you really do need some duck typing.

The thing which most impresses me is the core language syntax is pretty small and simple (the spec is about a quarter the size of Java's); but its way more powerful and flexible and is very easy to extend in libraries to add new semantics and features. For example see the Scala Actors. So its ideal for creating either embedded DSLs or external DSLs. There's really no need to have Java , XPath, XSLT, XQuery, JSP, JSTL, EL and SQL - you can just use Scala with some DSLs here and there (examples of this later...).

Scala does take a little bit of getting used to - I confess the first few times I looked at Scala it wasn't that pleasing on the eye - with Java you're kinda used to dumb verbose code which doesn't do very much - it can be quite a shock to see quite a few symbols at first. (It took me a while to get over the use of _ in scala which is the 'wildcard' symbol since * is an identifier/method) .

If you've been doing lots of Java then Scala does feel quite different at first - (e.g. the order of types & identifiers in method/variable/ parameter declarations - though the reason for that is to make it easy to miss out redundant type information) .

e.g. in Java
List<String> list = new ArrayList<String>()
in Scala
val list = new List[String]
or if you want to specify exact typing
val list : List[String] = new List[String]
However if you keep at it, the beauty of Scala soon becomes apparent; its simplified so many of the gremlins in the Java language, allows you to write very concise code describing the intent behind the code rather than the implementation cruft - together with providing a nice migration path to elegant functional programming which is awesome for building concurrent or distributed software.

I highly recommend you take a look at Scala - with an open mind - and see if (once you're brain adjusts) you can see its beauty too.

Some scala links and online presentations
If you have a spare hour or so these video talks are great to watch
Handy Scala frameworks and libraries
  • liftweb the rails of scala
  • specs and ScalaTest for BDD and more literate testing showing how a typesafe DSL can help you write more consise and expressive code that is very IDE friendly
  • scalaz a handy library of utilities
  • dispatch for working with HTTP/JSON services
BTW for those like me who love JAXRS you can now use lift templates with Jersey via the new jersey-lift module.

As an example of this in action you can check out RestMQ which is an open source project I've been working on lately to provide a RESTful API and web console to message orientated middleware which is built on JAXRS (Jersey), Scala and Lift.

From a tooling perspective there's Ant/Maven plugins, an interactive Scala console (REPL) and IDE plugins for IDEA, Eclipse, NetBeans along with the usual editors (TextMate/Emacs etc). The IDE plugins are not yet up to the Java grade, but they are very useful with good code navigation & completion.

I've tried the plugins for NetBeans, Eclipse and IDEA they all have strengths and weaknesses; it seems Scala folks are split between them all. For code navigation and completion along with maven support I've found IDEA to be quite good. When you open a Maven pom.xml it seems to grok the code nicely, finding the scala source so you can navigate through any type/method to see its documentation/ source etc. (You do typically have to manually add the Scala facet to run/debug stuff). Though IDEA is not always the best at highlighting syntax errors as you type. They could all use some work to bring them up to line with their Java counterparts though - try them out and see which you prefer.

Scala nits
With any language there's gonna be bits you love and bits you're not so keen on. Early impressions of Scala do seem like there's a bit of an attempt to use a few too many symbols :-; but you don't have to use them all - you can stick to the Java-ish OO side of the fence if you like. But then I guess longer term its probably better to use symbols for the 'special stuff' to avoid clashing with identifiers etc.

I'm not a massive fan of the nested import statement, using _root_.java. util.List to differentiate a 'global' import from a relative import.. I'd have preferred a child prefix. e.g. if you have imported com.acme.cheese. model.Foo then to import model.impl.FooImpl i'd prefer an explicit relative prefix, say: import _.impl.FooImpl which would simplify things a little and more in keeping with Scala's attempt at simplifying things and removing cruft (being polymorphic to import java.util._) .

However compared to all the massive hairy warts in Java, these downsides of Scala are tiny compared to the beauty, simplicity and power of Scala.

Conclusion
Given that MrJava, MrJRuby and MrGroovy are all tipping Scala as javac's long term replacement, there might be something in it. So what are you waiting for; get the Programming in Scala book or the O'Reilly Scala book and start having fun :)

=====
angol
=====
-----|-^_^X@ ^_^, =====|+^_^X+ +~_~,@--- --
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Without Truth there is no Justice, Without Justice, there is Tyranny
Semper fi
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www.onthe8spot. com
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09173822367




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19889 From: "noelbranz" <noelbranz@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:08 am
Subject: Community-based website with cool UI - configurable widgets 		noelbranz
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hi,

Is there anybody experienced developing a community-based interaction web app,
with cool drag and drop configurable widgets.

Do you of any UI framewokr used?

I only know of Zapatec.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

-NOEL BRANZUELA

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (5)
#19888 From: "Joselito D. Moreno" <joenmoreno@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: Web Service Frameworks 		joenm
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Hey Arche,

We're not evaluating SOA solutions yet.  Just web services in particular.  I'm talking about Axis2 vs CXF vs Metro, or something else.

Joen

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@...> wrote:
 

I'm not sure if I answer your question: try OpenESB or Mule

From: Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 9:21:51 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Web Service Frameworks

 

Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks? We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with. Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen




Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19887 From: Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...>
Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:15 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		mparaz
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Arche Type <type.arche@...> wrote:
> I experienced that also before. Are you using 64 or 32 bit?

JDK is 64-bit Java 6 - I think there's no 32-bit Java 6 on Mac (or at
least on Leopard)
OS is Leopard, which I think is 32-bit.

I went back to Cocoa, and it seems to be fine again, without me doing anything.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19886 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:32 am
Subject: Re: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		type.arche
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
It just the same as theory that the Java is a replacement of Cobol but it is just a theory because there are still plenty of Fortune 500 company still using the mainframe COBOL CICS.

From: Giancarlo Angulo <igan.long@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Novemberl 11, 2009 3:01:15 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

 


Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

Don't get me wrong - I've written tons of Java over the last decade or so & think its been a great evolutionary step from C++ and Smalltalk (lots of other languages have helped too like JavaScript, Ruby, Groovy, Python etc). However I've long wanted a long term replacement to javac. I even created a language to scratch this itch.

Java is a surprisingly complex language (the spec is 600 pages and does anyone really grok generics in Java?), with its autoboxing (and lovely NPE's hiding in there), primitive types, icky arrays which are not collections & general lack of polymorphism across strings/text/ buffers/collecti ons/arrays along with extremely verbose syntax for working with any kind of data structure & bean properties and still no closures (even in JDK7) which leads to tons of icky try/catch/finally crapola unless you use frameworks with new custom APIs & yet more complexity. Java even has type inference, it just refuses to use it to let us save any typing/reading.

This issue becomes even more pressing with there being no Java7 (which is even more relevant after Snorcle - I wonder if javac is gonna be replaced with jdkc? :). So I guess javac has kinda reached its pinacle; closures look unlikely as does any kind of simplification or progression.

So whats gonna be the long term replacement for javac? Certainly the dynamic languages like Ruby, Groovy, Python, JavaScript have been getting very popular the last few years - lots of folks like them.

Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.

So why Scala? Scala is statically typed and compiles down to the same fast bytecode as Java so its usually about as fast as Java (sometimes a little faster sometimes a little slower). e.g. compare how well Scala does in some benchmarks with groovy or jruby. Or this. Note speed isn't everything - there are times when you might want to trade code thats 10x slower for more productivity and conciseness; but for a long term replacement for javac speed is important.

Yet Scala has type inference - so its typically as concise as Ruby/Groovy but that everything has static types. This is a good thing; it makes code comprehension, navigation & documentation much simpler. Any token/method/ symbol you can click on to navigate to the actual implementation code & documentation. No wacky monkey patching involved, or doubting of who added a method, when and how - which is great for large projects with lots of folks working on the same code over long periods of time. Scala seems to hit the perfect sweet spot between the consise feel of a dynamic language, while actually being completely statically typed. So I never have to remember the magic methods that are available - or run a script in a shell then inspect the object to see what it really looks like - the IDE/compiler just knows while you edit.

Scala has high order functions and closure support along with sequence comprehensions so you can write beautifully concise code. Scala also unifies functional and OO paradigms beautifully together into a language thats considerably simpler than Java (though the type system is of a similar order to truly understand than generics - but then thats usually an issue for framework creators rather than application code developers). It also lets folks gradually migrate from a traiditional OO/Java way of coding to a more functional way - which is particularly relevant for folks writing concurrent or asynchronous code (which due to the GHz of chips no longer going up but instead we're getting more cores is becoming more necessary). You can start the OO way and migrate to using immutable state if/when you need its benefits. Increasingly functional programming is becoming more and more important as we try and make things more concise and higher level (e.g. closures, higher order functions, pattern matching, monads etc) as well as dealing with concurrency and asynchrony via immutable state etc.

Scala also has proper mixins (traits) so you don't have to muck about with AOP wackiness to get nice modular code. There's even structural types in case you really do need some duck typing.

The thing which most impresses me is the core language syntax is pretty small and simple (the spec is about a quarter the size of Java's); but its way more powerful and flexible and is very easy to extend in libraries to add new semantics and features. For example see the Scala Actors. So its ideal for creating either embedded DSLs or external DSLs. There's really no need to have Java , XPath, XSLT, XQuery, JSP, JSTL, EL and SQL - you can just use Scala with some DSLs here and there (examples of this later...).

Scala does take a little bit of getting used to - I confess the first few times I looked at Scala it wasn't that pleasing on the eye - with Java you're kinda used to dumb verbose code which doesn't do very much - it can be quite a shock to see quite a few symbols at first. (It took me a while to get over the use of _ in scala which is the 'wildcard' symbol since * is an identifier/method) .

If you've been doing lots of Java then Scala does feel quite different at first - (e.g. the order of types & identifiers in method/variable/ parameter declarations - though the reason for that is to make it easy to miss out redundant type information) .

e.g. in Java
List<String> list = new ArrayList<String>()
in Scala
val list = new List[String]
or if you want to specify exact typing
val list : List[String] = new List[String]
However if you keep at it, the beauty of Scala soon becomes apparent; its simplified so many of the gremlins in the Java language, allows you to write very concise code describing the intent behind the code rather than the implementation cruft - together with providing a nice migration path to elegant functional programming which is awesome for building concurrent or distributed software.

I highly recommend you take a look at Scala - with an open mind - and see if (once you're brain adjusts) you can see its beauty too.

Some scala links and online presentations
If you have a spare hour or so these video talks are great to watch
Handy Scala frameworks and libraries
  • liftweb the rails of scala
  • specs and ScalaTest for BDD and more literate testing showing how a typesafe DSL can help you write more consise and expressive code that is very IDE friendly
  • scalaz a handy library of utilities
  • dispatch for working with HTTP/JSON services
BTW for those like me who love JAXRS you can now use lift templates with Jersey via the new jersey-lift module.

As an example of this in action you can check out RestMQ which is an open source project I've been working on lately to provide a RESTful API and web console to message orientated middleware which is built on JAXRS (Jersey), Scala and Lift.

From a tooling perspective there's Ant/Maven plugins, an interactive Scala console (REPL) and IDE plugins for IDEA, Eclipse, NetBeans along with the usual editors (TextMate/Emacs etc). The IDE plugins are not yet up to the Java grade, but they are very useful with good code navigation & completion.

I've tried the plugins for NetBeans, Eclipse and IDEA they all have strengths and weaknesses; it seems Scala folks are split between them all. For code navigation and completion along with maven support I've found IDEA to be quite good. When you open a Maven pom.xml it seems to grok the code nicely, finding the scala source so you can navigate through any type/method to see its documentation/ source etc. (You do typically have to manually add the Scala facet to run/debug stuff). Though IDEA is not always the best at highlighting syntax errors as you type. They could all use some work to bring them up to line with their Java counterparts though - try them out and see which you prefer.

Scala nits
With any language there's gonna be bits you love and bits you're not so keen on. Early impressions of Scala do seem like there's a bit of an attempt to use a few too many symbols :-; but you don't have to use them all - you can stick to the Java-ish OO side of the fence if you like. But then I guess longer term its probably better to use symbols for the 'special stuff' to avoid clashing with identifiers etc.

I'm not a massive fan of the nested import statement, using _root_.java. util.List to differentiate a 'global' import from a relative import.. I'd have preferred a child prefix. e.g. if you have imported com.acme.cheese. model.Foo then to import model.impl.FooImpl i'd prefer an explicit relative prefix, say: import _.impl.FooImpl which would simplify things a little and more in keeping with Scala's attempt at simplifying things and removing cruft (being polymorphic to import java.util._) .

However compared to all the massive hairy warts in Java, these downsides of Scala are tiny compared to the beauty, simplicity and power of Scala.

Conclusion
Given that MrJava, MrJRuby and MrGroovy are all tipping Scala as javac's long term replacement, there might be something in it. So what are you waiting for; get the Programming in Scala book or the O'Reilly Scala book and start having fun :)

=====
angol
=====
-----|-^_^X@ ^_^, =====|+^_^X+ +~_~,@--- --
"The only thing worse than a hopeless romantic is a hopeful one"
Magbasa bago Mamuna. Mag-isip bago mambatikos
Without Truth there is no Justice, Without Justice, there is Tyranny
Semper fi
Proof of Desire is Pursuit
www.onthe8spot. com
http://www.facebook .com/giancarlo. angulo
http://twitter. com/Neoryder
09173822367



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19885 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:33 am
Subject: Re: Web Service Frameworks 		type.arche
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm not sure if I answer your question: try OpenESB or Mule

From: Joselito D. Moreno <joenmoreno@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 9:21:51 AM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Web Service Frameworks

 

Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks? We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with. Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19884 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:29 am
Subject: Re: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		type.arche
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
I experienced that also before. Are you using 64 or 32 bit?

From: Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 12:03:03 PM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems

 

Hi,
I'm having these problems and can't find anything on the web.

Eclipse Galileo and Mac OS X Leopard:

With the Cocoa version, I hit 100% CPU and Eclipse becomes "not
responding" in the Activity Monitor.
With the Carbon version, the keyboard loses focus and my keystrokes
are ignored, as if some other UI element was clicked. This greatly
slows down my typing.

I'm using the Android Development Tool, but haven't isolated if
removing this will solve it. (Since all my Java work now is on
Android, anyway.)

Any ideas? Thanks!



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19883 From: Arche Type <type.arche@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:30 am
Subject: Re: Spring MVC annotation approach? 		type.arche
Offline Offline
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You can use it for any enterprise project.

From: annixtaz07 <annixtaz07@...>
To: pinoyjug@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 9, 2009 8:21:08 PM
Subject: [pinoyjug] Spring MVC annotation approach?

 

Hi pinuyjuggers! , Spring MVC annotation approach is so cool, can i use it for large project? tnx...



Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#19882 From: "Calen Martin D. Legaspi" <calen@...>
Date: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:54 am
Subject: Register Now for SpringGrails Asia 2010! 		calenmartin
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The registration site for SpringGrails Asia 2010 is now up!  Click the link in order to register as well as view the agenda.  Hurry since slots are limited, especially in the breakout sessions.

The event will be held on January 15, 2010, at the Hotel Intercon.  See you all there!

Calen
--
Calen Legaspi

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#19881 From: Miguel Paraz <mparaz@...>
Date: Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:03 pm
Subject: Eclipse Galileo + Mac OS X (Leopard) problems 		mparaz
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
  
Hi,
I'm having these problems and can't find anything on the web.

Eclipse Galileo and Mac OS X Leopard:

With the Cocoa version, I hit 100% CPU and Eclipse becomes "not
responding" in the Activity Monitor.
With the Carbon version, the keyboard loses focus and my keystrokes
are ignored, as if some other UI element was clicked. This greatly
slows down my typing.

I'm using the Android Development Tool, but haven't isolated if
removing this will solve it. (Since all my Java work now is on
Android, anyway.)

Any ideas? Thanks!

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (9)
#19880 From: "blats002" <blats002@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:46 am
Subject: Our company is looking for a Software Engineer 		blats002
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
The Software Engineer is responsible for developing new software products and
enhancing and maintaining existing software products. Activities include
requirements gathering and management, prototyping, designing and coding, unit
and system integration testing, packaging and preparing user's documentation for
network management systems and related software applications.

Qualifications:

·        At least 1 year experience in developing applications using J2SE
platform

·        Working knowledge of Windows, Linux and UNIX (Sun, HP)

·        Strong problem solving and analytical skills

·        Excellent oral and written communication skills in English

·        Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science, Computer Engineering or
ECE preferred but not required

Allied Telesis Labs (Phils), Inc. | 3/F Net One Center | 3rd Avenue cor. 26th
Street | Bonifacio Global City | 1634 Taguig City | Metro Manila | Philippines
Telephone: +63 2 815 3130 | Fax: +63 2 815 3170 | Mobile: +63 917 824 4149
E-mail: ria.mendoza@...
Website: www.alliedtelesis.com

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#19879 From: "Joselito D. Moreno" <joenmoreno@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:21 pm
Subject: Web Service Frameworks 		joenm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
Hello,

Can you guys share your experiences with different Java-based web
services frameworks?  We are in the process of evaluating which one to
go with.  Can you share which ones you have evaluated and why you
chose what you ended up with?

Thanks a bunch.

Joen

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (7)
#19878 From: Giancarlo Angulo <igan.long@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:01 am
Subject: Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac? 		igan_long
Offline Offline
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Scala as the long term replacement for java/javac?

Don't get me wrong - I've written tons of Java over the last decade or so & think its been a great evolutionary step from C++ and Smalltalk (lots of other languages have helped too like JavaScript, Ruby, Groovy, Python etc). However I've long wanted a long term replacement to javac. I even created a language to scratch this itch.

Java is a surprisingly complex language (the spec is 600 pages and does anyone really grok generics in Java?), with its autoboxing (and lovely NPE's hiding in there), primitive types, icky arrays which are not collections & general lack of polymorphism across strings/text/buffers/collections/arrays along with extremely verbose syntax for working with any kind of data structure & bean properties and still no closures (even in JDK7) which leads to tons of icky try/catch/finally crapola unless you use frameworks with new custom APIs & yet more complexity. Java even has type inference, it just refuses to use it to let us save any typing/reading.

This issue becomes even more pressing with there being no Java7 (which is even more relevant after Snorcle - I wonder if javac is gonna be replaced with jdkc? :). So I guess javac has kinda reached its pinacle; closures look unlikely as does any kind of simplification or progression.

So whats gonna be the long term replacement for javac? Certainly the dynamic languages like Ruby, Groovy, Python, JavaScript have been getting very popular the last few years - lots of folks like them.

Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.

So why Scala? Scala is statically typed and compiles down to the same fast bytecode as Java so its usually about as fast as Java (sometimes a little faster sometimes a little slower). e.g. compare how well Scala does in some benchmarks with groovy or jruby. Or this. Note speed isn't everything - there are times when you might want to trade code thats 10x slower for more productivity and conciseness; but for a long term replacement for javac speed is important.

Yet Scala has type inference - so its typically as concise as Ruby/Groovy but that everything has static types. This is a good thing; it makes code comprehension, navigation & documentation much simpler. Any token/method/symbol you can click on to navigate to the actual implementation code & documentation. No wacky monkey patching involved, or doubting of who added a method, when and how - which is great for large projects with lots of folks working on the same code over long periods of time. Scala seems to hit the perfect sweet spot between the consise feel of a dynamic language, while actually being completely statically typed. So I never have to remember the magic methods that are available - or run a script in a shell then inspect the object to see what it really looks like - the IDE/compiler just knows while you edit.

Scala has high order functions and closure support along with sequence comprehensions so you can write beautifully concise code. Scala also unifies functional and OO paradigms beautifully together into a language thats considerably simpler than Java (though the type system is of a similar order to truly understand than generics - but then thats usually an issue for framework creators rather than application code developers). It also lets folks gradually migrate from a traiditional OO/Java way of coding to a more functional way - which is particularly relevant for folks writing concurrent or asynchronous code (which due to the GHz of chips no longer going up but instead we're getting more cores is becoming more necessary). You can start the OO way and migrate to using immutable state if/when you need its benefits. Increasingly functional programming is becoming more and more important as we try and make things more concise and higher level (e.g. closures, higher order functions, pattern matching, monads etc) as well as dealing with concurrency and asynchrony via immutable state etc.

Scala also has proper mixins (traits) so you don't have to muck about with AOP wackiness to get nice modular code. There's even structural types in case you really do need some duck typing.

The thing which most impresses me is the core language syntax is pretty small and simple (the spec is about a quarter the size of Java's); but its way more powerful and flexible and is very easy to extend in libraries to add new semantics and features. For example see the Scala Actors. So its ideal for creating either embedded DSLs or external DSLs. There's really no need to have Java , XPath, XSLT, XQuery, JSP, JSTL, EL and SQL - you can just use Scala with some DSLs here and there (examples of this later...).

Scala does take a little bit of getting used to - I confess the first few times I looked at Scala it wasn't that pleasing on the eye - with Java you're kinda used to dumb verbose code which doesn't do very much - it can be quite a shock to see quite a few symbols at first. (It took me a while to get over the use of _ in scala which is the 'wildcard' symbol since * is an identifier/method).

If you've been doing lots of Java then Scala does feel quite different at first - (e.g. the order of types & identifiers in method/variable/parameter declarations - though the reason for that is to make it easy to miss out redundant type information).

e.g. in Java
List<String> list = new ArrayList<String>()
in Scala
val list = new List[String]
or if you want to specify exact typing
val list : List[String] = new List[String]
However if you keep at it, the beauty of Scala soon becomes apparent; its simplified so many of the gremlins in the Java language, allows you to write very concise code describing the intent behind the code rather than the implementation cruft - together with providing a nice migration path to elegant functional programming which is awesome for building concurrent or distributed software.

I highly recommend you take a look at Scala - with an open mind - and see if (once you're brain adjusts) you can see its beauty too.

Some scala links and online presentations
If you have a spare hour or so these video talks are great to watch
Handy Scala frameworks and libraries
  • liftweb the rails of scala
  • specs and ScalaTest for BDD and more literate testing showing how a typesafe DSL can help you write more consise and expressive code that is very IDE friendly
  • scalaz a handy library of utilities
  • dispatch for working with HTTP/JSON services
BTW for those like me who love JAXRS you can now use lift templates with Jersey via the new jersey-lift module.

As an example of this in action you can check out RestMQ which is an open source project I've been working on lately to provide a RESTful API and web console to message orientated middleware which is built on JAXRS (Jersey), Scala and Lift.

From a tooling perspective there's Ant/Maven plugins, an interactive Scala console (REPL) and IDE plugins for IDEA, Eclipse, NetBeans along with the usual editors (TextMate/Emacs etc). The IDE plugins are not yet up to the Java grade, but they are very useful with good code navigation & completion.

I've tried the plugins for NetBeans, Eclipse and IDEA they all have strengths and weaknesses; it seems Scala folks are split between them all. For code navigation and completion along with maven support I've found IDEA to be quite good. When you open a Maven pom.xml it seems to grok the code nicely, finding the scala source so you can navigate through any type/method to see its documentation/source etc. (You do typically have to manually add the Scala facet to run/debug stuff). Though IDEA is not always the best at highlighting syntax errors as you type. They could all use some work to bring them up to line with their Java counterparts though - try them out and see which you prefer.

Scala nits
With any language there's gonna be bits you love and bits you're not so keen on. Early impressions of Scala do seem like there's a bit of an attempt to use a few too many symbols :-; but you don't have to use them all - you can stick to the Java-ish OO side of the fence if you like. But then I guess longer term its probably better to use symbols for the 'special stuff' to avoid clashing with identifiers etc.

I'm not a massive fan of the nested import statement, using _root_.java.util.List to differentiate a 'global' import from a relative import. I'd have preferred a child prefix. e.g. if you have imported com.acme.cheese.model.Foo then to import model.impl.FooImpl i'd prefer an explicit relative prefix, say: import _.impl.FooImpl which would simplify things a little and more in keeping with Scala's attempt at simplifying things and removing cruft (being polymorphic to import java.util._).

However compared to all the massive hairy warts in Java, these downsides of Scala are tiny compared to the beauty, simplicity and power of Scala.

Conclusion
Given that MrJava, MrJRuby and MrGroovy are all tipping Scala as javac's long term replacement, there might be something in it. So what are you waiting for; get the Programming in Scala book or the O'Reilly Scala book and start having fun :)

=====
angol
=====
-----|-^_^X@^_^, =====|+^_^X++~_~,@-----
"The only thing worse than a hopeless romantic is a hopeful one"
Magbasa bago Mamuna. Mag-isip bago mambatikos
Without Truth there is no Justice, Without Justice, there is Tyranny
Semper fi
Proof of Desire is Pursuit
www.onthe8spot.com
http://www.facebook.com/giancarlo.angulo
http://twitter.com/Neoryder
09173822367

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (10)
#19877 From: Kristine Ilaya <kristineilaya@...>
Date: Mon Nov 9, 2009 1:33 am
Subject: Java - Technical Lead 		kristineilaya
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Good day!

We are currently looking for a Java Technical Lead who has at least 2 years experience in Team Lead post, Open source development, using a BI tool preferably Pentaho. This is for a project based employment for 1 year. If interested kindly email me your updated CV at kilaya@.... Thanks!

Thanks and regards,
Kristine Ilaya
IT Recruiter
WeSelect Inc./Info Alchemy Corp.
18f i Alchemy Suite, Pacific Star Bldg.
Sen. Gil Puyat Ave. cor Makati Ave.
Makati City 1200
Office no. 8115014 loc 112\
ym:kristineilaya


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