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Re: What's better about Ruby than Python?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #106134 of 122067 |
Re: What's better about Ruby than Python?

Kenny Tilton wrote:
...
> thread: Python is not trying to be everything. Fair enough. Let Python
> be Python, let Lisp be Lisp.
>
> ie, If someone wants macros, they probably would also like special
> variables and closures and lexical scope and multi-methods and they may
> as well get it over with and learn Lisp and stop trying make Python more
> than it wants to be.

Hear, hear! Or one you just can't stand the nested-parentheses idea,
then that's what Dylan was designed for: much the same semantics
and power as Lisp, including all of the features you mention!, but with
infix syntax.


Alex

--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Thu Aug 21, 2003 12:47 pm

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Forward 		Message #106134 of 122067 |
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Alex Martelli <aleax@...> wrote in message news:<ExR0b.21526$zN5.666078@...>... ... (...) ... Macros, as found in Common Lisp, do not change the...
Olivier Drolet
trimtab@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
5:13 am

Kenny Tilton wrote: ... Hear, hear! Or one you just can't stand the nested-parentheses idea, then that's what Dylan was designed for: much the same semantics ...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
5:51 am

Andrew Dalke wrote: ... Back when I gave Eiffel a serious try, I easily slid into [the equivalent of]: itsAtom = Atom() [for an instance member variable --...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
6:14 am

Andrew Dalke wrote: ... Just as prevalent is the wish to please EVERYone -- that's how one gets, say, PL/I, or perl... by NOT deliberately refusing to "get...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
6:24 am

... I have about no idea of what that means. Could you explain without using syntax? My guess is that it caches function calls, based only on the variable...
Andrew Dalke
adalke@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
6:27 am

Andrew Dalke wrote: ... You could use a class if its instances where descriptors, i.e. supported __get__ appropriately -- that's basically what functions do...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
6:36 am

... Good question! I don't have any preset answers yet. We definitely do want to impose those restrictions that have "multiple" benefits, i.e. that both let...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
7:13 am

... I've created a new language, called Speech. It's based on the core primitives found in the International Phonetic Alphabet. I've made some demos using...
Andrew Dalke
adalke@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
7:16 am

... I'm slowing easing my way into this new stuff. I read it through once, but it didn't all sink in. Could you post an example of how to use it for my cache...
Andrew Dalke
adalke@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
7:24 am

... and != vs. <> Can we have a deprecation warning for that? I've never seen it in any code I've reviewed. Andrew dalke@... -- ...
Andrew Dalke
adalke@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
7:28 am

Alex Martelli <aleax@...> wrote: ... What sort of syntax tweak? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list...
Joshua Marshall
joshway_without_spam@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:07 am

... A dangerous idiom -- you should definitely use try/finally here, otherwise your sys.stdout will stay wrongly bound if there is an exception soon after it....
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:12 am

... I'm very much made out of the same cloth, though age has slowly and gradually moved me a little bit towards mainstream. When I was 9 -- and every relative...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:23 am

... Some sort of macro, I guess <ducking for cover>. BTW, what about using macros not to create new variants but to express idiomatic transforms between...
Borcis
borcis@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:27 am

Bengt Richter wrote: ... Properties AND many other descriptors, sure. The whole descriptors scene is cool, and properties one of the best uses for them so...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:37 am

... I believe you unwittingly locate an issue. Machine translation of human languages has been an unescapable project for computer scientists, a challenge that...
Borcis
borcis@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:46 am

... Several possibilities have been discussed on python-dev in the past. E.g., <somenewkeyword> <someobject>: <block> translating into: <someobject>.begin() ...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
8:58 am

... ... cache = {} ... def cached_call(self, *args): ... if args in cache: ... return cache[args] ... x = f(self, *args) ......
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
9:50 am

... The first thing I would do with macros in Python is build an inline-facility which allows certain functions being expanded whenever they are called. This...
Matthias
spam@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
9:50 am

... That's the part where I still lack understanding. class Spam: def f(self): pass f = CachedCall(f) obj = Spam() obj.f() Under old-style Python obj.f is the...
Andrew Dalke
adalke@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
10:01 am

In article <ql_0b.1664$Ej6.614@...>, ... We will, probably 2.4 or 2.5. (Whenever 3.0 starts getting off the ground.) -- Aahz...
Aahz
aahz@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
10:28 am

... Hmm... I still use <> exclusively for my code, and I wouldn't really like it getting deprecated. At least for me, != is more difficult to see when browsing...
Heiko Wundram
heikowu@...
Send Email 		Aug 22, 2003
7:46 am

... That's an oldstyle class -- use a newstyle one for smoothest and most reliable behavior of descriptors ... This equivalence holds today as well -- the...
Alex Martelli
aleax@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
11:01 am

"Andrew Dalke" <adalke@...> wrote: [defines cognitive macro called Speech] ... [snip lots of examples using it, trying to make macros look bad?] ......
Anton Vredegoor
anton@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
1:15 pm

... Wow :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list...
Borcis
borcis@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
1:47 pm

... The alternative is to understand (and subsequently recognize) the chunks of source code implementing a given patten for which no abstraction was provided...
Jacek Generowicz
jacek.generowicz@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
1:53 pm

... This criticism can't help looking frivolous, imho. You appear to be confusing "language" with "speech". But I do believe there *must* exist a sane niche...
Borcis
borcis@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
1:58 pm

... C? does something similar to what you think, but at with an order of magnitude more power. Estimated. :) Here is how C? can be used: (make-instance 'box ...
Kenny Tilton
ktilton@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
2:09 pm

... You are absolutely right. "Umormor uya kulala" is less readable than "My maternal grandmother is going for the purpose of sleeping", to someone who is...
Jacek Generowicz
jacek.generowicz@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
2:20 pm

Really cute intuition pump you've got there, Alex! :-) Obviously, no programmer of Python, Lisp, Java, etc., would ever want to deal with code in their...
Olivier Drolet
trimtab@...
Send Email 		Aug 21, 2003
2:39 pm
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