Suilad!
     I'm learning, but I'm here.
         Tenna rato
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyarmendil Carniquar,  Gondoreano del Sur
Lempecápi, Morisíre
Kyelepea
jmolina@...
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Eque Ainon:
>
>"I can speak Quenya" (because I have learnt it) = _Istan quete Quenya._
>(_Polin/lertan quete Quenya_ would have a slightly different meaning.)

Ai, "mea culpa".

Hm, by the way, I think the FAQ needs an update.

-- Raama

----- Original Message -----

From: Johan Winge

To: quenya@egroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 1:08 AM

Subject: Re: [quenya] Yee! Sii istalme...

Eque Ainon:
>
>"I can speak Quenya" (because I have learnt it) = _Istan quete Quenya._
>(_Polin/lertan quete Quenya_ would have a slightly different meaning.)

Ai, "mea culpa".

Hm, by the way, I think the FAQ needs an update.

-- Raama

----- Original Message -----

From: Johan Winge

To: quenya@egroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 1:08 AM

Subject: Re: [quenya] Yee! Sii istalme...

Eque Ainon:
>
>"I can speak Quenya" (because I have learnt it) = _Istan quete Quenya._
>(_Polin/lertan quete Quenya_ would have a slightly different meaning.)

Ai, "mea culpa".

Hm, by the way, I think the FAQ needs an update.

-- Raama

....there's a new Shania Twain album called "The Woman In Me". It occurred
to me that if you try to render this title into Quenya, you might end up
with _I Nisse Nisse_. The first _nisse_ is a unitary noun "woman", whereas
the second _nisse_ ("in me") is _ni_ "I, me" + the locative ending.

In late sources, the word for "woman" is given as _nís_ rather than _nisse_
(and even in the Etymologies there is _nis_ as an alternative to _nisse_).
I think I would normally use _nís_ instead, precisely to avoid the
ambiguous form.

- Ainon

Hi!
I want to learn Quenya and I searched for books aubout this topic,
but i didn't find anything(except from The Lost Road and other
writtings (5), but it's only a word list)
Can anybody tell me a book or site aubout learning quenya and/or
quenya grammar?

Manuel.Roth@... wrote:
>
> Can anybody tell me a book or site aubout learning quenya and/or
> quenya grammar?
  For a good start go to Ardalambion ( http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf ),
remember to check the links there. Also, email Helge Fauskanger (he's a
member of this list), the author of that page, and ask him for his
excellent Quenya-English-Quenya dictionaries. There is also Elfling, an
email list devoted to the study of Tolkienian linguistics, to which you
can subscribe by sending a blank email to elfling-subscribe@egroups.com
. If you prefer Spanish there are other places, too (email me privately
about it, if you do).
  And of course, this list :)
  Angasule

--- In quenya@egroups.com, Manuel.Roth@w... wrote:
> Hi!
> Can anybody tell me a book or site aubout learning quenya and/or
> quenya grammar?

I would not want people to feel like I'm advertising my own site or
anything, but you could have a look at
http://members.spree.com/sip/eledonkweti/
which has some language stuff and also links to other sites.

Angasule wrote:
For a good start go to Ardalambion ( http://www.uib.no/people/hnohf ),
>remember to check the links there. Also, email Helge Fauskanger (he's a
>member of this list), the author of that page, and ask him for his
>excellent Quenya-English-Quenya dictionaries. There is also Elfling, an
>email list devoted to the study of Tolkienian linguistics, to which you
>can subscribe by sending a blank email to elfling-subscribe@egroups.com.
> If you prefer Spanish there are other places, too (email me privately
>about it, if you do).
> And of course, this list :)
> Angasule

Dima Leshchinskii wrote:

>I would not want people to feel like I'm advertising my own site or
>anything, but you could have a look at
>http://members.spree.com/sip/eledonkweti/
>which has some language stuff and also links to other sites.


Thank you very much for your help. I'm going to look at these WebPages and
ask Helge Fauskanger; but no, I'm not speaking Spanish.
Thank you!

Manuel Roth

Hello all!

I would like to share my thoughts about the season named 'quelle' in
the calendar of Imladris, a very grey and depressing time in France,
shriveling hope in the heart along with beauty in Nature.


            Quelle

Ringi telekla elmennar, ulugi rosiva elesse:
Laire awanie.

Lassi linga smali, yar mori starisse phir:
Quelle utulie.

Hrive tula, nik tuka,
Boroni kheleki lumi.

Ndan, nai ulugi patuva! Nai ur siluva teres!
Coire tat tuluva!

-----------------
Translation:
Cold stalking us(lit: "towards us"), rainclouds(lit: "clouds of
rain")
                                    [in the sky:
Summer has gone.

Leaves hanging yellow, fruit black in the dead dry grass:
'Fading'* has come.

Winter is coming, bringing despair,(lit: "fear", I found not word for

                                    [despair in Quenya)
[And] Long, cold nights.

But, Be it that the clouds part(lit: "open")!** Be it that the sun
shine

[through!
'Stirring'* shall come again!

--------------
Notes:
*-Fading and Stirring are seasons(or months) of the 6-month Imaldris
calendar. Fading is the shriveling grey time after beautiful golden
autumn, and Stirring is the month/season after winter and before
spring (see LotR appendix D for more details).

**-Here I took the liberty of using the 'wishing formula' to express
a
wish, instead of the traditional expression of a possibility (see
"Namarie").
--------------

Please tell me what you think.
Dima Leshchinskii

Inspired by the Quenya translations of Genesis on Ardalambion, I have begun
tackling the first chapters of the New Testament. Below is my rendition of
Matthew 1. The next chapter is also roughed out, but this is probably enough
for now. Please give me some criticism and advice so this can perhaps end up
on the web site! Thank you...
I Parma Masseuo – The Book of Matthew

Cirma Mine – Chapter One

I Nosse Yesuso – The Geneology of Jesus

Luumenyaare i nosseo Laivea Yesuso i yondo Tavito, i yondo Aprahamo:
A history of the line of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:

*(The word Christ means ‘annointed’ so I used an adjective invented from the
word for ointment.)

Apraham nee i atar Isaaco; Isaac nee i atar Yacopo; Yacop nee i atar Yuto ar
torniryaron;
Abraham was the father of Isaac; Isaac was the father of Jacob; Jacob was
the father of Judah and his brothers;

*(Is there a word for ‘beget’ that would take the place of ‘was the
father’?)

Yuta nee i atar Peresso ar Sero Tamarnen; Peres nee i atar Hesrono; Hesron
nee i atar Ramo;
Judah was the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar; Perez was the father of
Hezron; Hezron was the father of Ram;

Ram nee i atar Amminatapo; Amminitap nee i atar Nahsono; Nahson nee i atar
Salmono;
Ram was the father of Amminadab; Amminadab was the father of Nahshon;
Nahshon was the father of Salmon;

Salmon nee i atar Poasso Rahapnen; Poas nee i atar Opeto Rusnen; Opet nee i
atar Yesseo;
Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab; Boaz was the father of Obed by Ruth;
Obed was the father of Jesse;

Yesse nee i atar Aran Tavito; Tavit nee i atar Solomono i vessenen Urio;
Jesse was the father of King David; David was the father of Solomon by
Uriah’s wife;

Solomon nee i atar Rehopoamo; Rehopoam nee i atar Apiyo; Apiya nee i atar
Aso;
Solomon was the father of Rehoboam; Rehoboam was the father of Abijah,
Abijah was the father of Asa;

Asa nee i atar Yehossafato; Yehossafat nee i atar Yehoramo; Yehoram nee i
atar Ussio;
Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat; Jehoshaphat was the father of Jehoram;
Jehoram was the father of Uzziah;

Ussia nee i atar Yosamo; Yosam nee i atar Ahasso; Ahas nee i atar Hessecio;
Uzziah was the father of Jotham; Jotham was the father of Ahaz; Ahaz was the
father of Hezekiah;

Hessecia nee i atar Manasseho; Manasseh nee i atar Amono; Amon nee i atar
Yosio;
Hezekiah was the father of Manasseh; Manasseh was the father of Amon; Amon
was the father of Josiah;

Yosia nee i atar Yeconio ar torniryaron i etyalesse Papulonenna.
Josiah was the father of Jeconiah and his brothers in the exile to Babylon.

*(The word ‘etyale’ is the noun form of a hypothetical verb ‘etya’, which I
got from ‘Etyangoldi’ the ‘Exiled Noldor’)

Apa i etyale Papulonenna, Yeconia ne i atar Sealtiello; Sealtiel nee i atar
Seruppapello;
After the exile to Babylon, Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel; Shealtiel
was the father of Zerubbabel;

Seruppapel nee i atar Apiuto; Apiut nee i atar Eliacimo; Eliacim nee i atar
Assoro;
Zerubbabel was the father of Abiud; Abiud was the father of Eliakim; Eliakim
was the father of Azor;

Assor nee i atar Satoco; Satoc nee i atar Acimo; Acim nee i atar Eliuto;
Azor was the father of Zadok; Zadok was the father of Akim; Akim was the
father of Eliud;

Eliut nee i atar Eleassaro; Eleassar nee i atar Matsano; Matsan nee i atar
Yacopo;
Eliud was the father of Eleazar; Eleazar was the father of Matthan; Matthan
was the father of Jacob;

Yacop nee i atar Yosefo, i verno Maaro, ya nosta Yesus, estina Laivea.
Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, who gave birth to
Jesus, called Christ.

*(I used Maara for Mary’s name, because it is closer to the Hebrew and also
means ‘good.’)

San ilquasse neer atta-rasta atari Aprahamello Tavitenna, atta-rasta
Tavitello i etyalenna Papulonenna, ar atta-rasta i etyalello i Laiveanna.
Therefore in all were fourteen fathers from Abraham to David, fourteen from
David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

I nosta Laivea Yesuso – The Birth of Jesus Christ

I nosta Laivea Yesuso martanes ve si: Amilerya Maara carne vanda vestaleo
Yosefenna, nan uu-apa yanwenta, hirnente seldo cumbaryasse i Aina Suulenen.
The birth of Jesus Christ happened like this: his mother Mary made a vow of
marriage to Joseph, but not after their joining, they found a child in her
womb by the Holy Spirit.

*(Is there any other equivalent of ‘before’? The negative prefix ‘uu’ is
added here and elswhere, especially with verbs, but I don’t exactly know if
this is correct usage.)

Yosef veorya nee mane ar uu-mernes tane ilquanna; noaneero aute se seeresse.
Joseph her man was righteous and not-wanted to indicate to all; he thought
to leave her in peace.

*(I know the past tense of ‘noa’ is something else, but I forgot it.)

Si nee noorya, nan tercaano i Heruo tulle sonna olooresse, queetala, “Yosef
yondo Tavito, uu-cauya mape Maara vesselya, ten ya nee carna sesse naa i
Aina Suulenen.”
This was his thought, but a herald of the Lord came to him in a dream,
saying, “Joseph son of David, not-fear to take Mary your wife, for what was
made in her is by the Holy Spirit.”

Nostuvaare yondo, ar antuvalye i esse Yesus, ten caruvaaro varna lierya
raicentallo.”
She will bear a son, and you will give the name Jesus, for he will make free
his people from their sins.”

Si martanes quante ya i Heru equeetie ter i apacenwe:
This happened to fill what the Lord had said through the prophet:

*(‘apacen’ is ‘foresight’, so I added the suffix form of ‘veo’ to make ‘man
of foresight.’)

En, i weene caruva cumbasse ar nostuvaare yondo, ar antuvante i esse
Immanuel, ya naa “Eru emmesse.”
Behold, the virgin will produce in the womb and will give birth to a son,
and they will give the name Immanuel, which is “God with us.”

Iire Yosef coivane, carneero ya i tercaano Heruo acaanie ar mampeero Maara
vesserya,
When Joseph awoke, he did what the angel of the Lord had ordered and took
Mary his wife,

nan uu-carnes yanwe senna tennai apa nostaneere yondo. Ar antaneero i esse
Yesus.
but he not-made union with her until after she gave birth to a son. And he
gave the name Jesus.


Nathan Roy – imakhy@...

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On Dima Leshchinskii's poem:

> Ringi telekla elmennar, ulugi rosiva elesse:
Cold stalking us(lit: "towards us"), rainclouds(lit: "clouds of rain")

** Hmm...this doesn't look quite like Quenya to me, if I must say so.
Remember, the entry-heads in the Etymologies don't form a Quenya dictionary
(and neither does my index to this work). The root TELEK is glossed "stalk"
all right, but in the context "stalk, stem, leg", so this is a noun and not
a verb.

**_Helle roitala me, rossefanyar_? "Frost pursuing us, rainclouds".

> Laire awanie.
> Summer has gone.

** Long _aa_ in _awaanie_, which would be an archaic form, later _avaanie_
(as in Namaarie).

> Lassi linga smali, yar mori starisse phir:
> Leaves hanging yellow, fruit black in the dead dry grass:

** Rather: _Lassi lingala maline, more yaave (i) firin sarasse_.

> Quelle utulie.
> 'Fading' has come.

** _Utuulie_ with a long _uu_.

> Hrive tula, nik tuka,
> Winter is coming, bringing despair,(lit: "fear")

** Perhaps: _Hriive tuula, tukila rukie_... Where did you find _nik_ =
"fear"

> Boroni kheleki lumi.
> [And] Long, cold nights.

This looks like Primitive Elvish to me... _Ande, ringe/helke loomi_, I
think.

> Ndan, nai ulugi patuva! Nai ur siluva teres!
> But, Be it that the clouds part(lit: "open")!
  Be it that the sun shine

** More Primitive Elvish... _Nan, nai (i) fanyar pantuvar! Nai Uur [better:
Anar] siluva ter! (= ...shine through).

** Perhaps the prepostion should be prefixed (_tersiluva_, perhaps
assimilated to _tessiluva_), but no one can be certain.

> Coire tat tuluva!
> 'Stirring'* shall come again!

_Tat_ is just a root. There is a word _ata_ = "again", but why not simply
use the prefix _en-_? After all, _entuluva_ is even directly attested.

I'll come back to Nathan Roy's Bible translation.

- Helge Fauskanger

[quite a late responce, I know...]

Nathan Roy wrote:

> Man naa i cilme tengwaron ‘oore’ ar ‘roomen’ mi teecale?

**Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa
natsemenyasse estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in
David Salo's enquiry/*essay on my site called 'elm'.]
http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html
[Sounds like an advertising, I know...]

> Naar tehtar ve ‘quotation marks’, ‘parentheses’ ar ‘question marks’?

**Maqueta Angasuule! Melis Tengwar: aiya, Angasuule, ma elye sinome?
Ma polilye resta son?
[Ask Angasuule! He loves Tengwar: hey, Angasuule, are you here?
Can you help him?]
[_resta-_ "aid, help", QL]

> Man tatya (pluralizes?) quettar tyeldion –ie ar –ee?

**Sanalye quettar ve _rie_, _lie_,... ar _ree_, _pee_...? [You think
words as ... and ...?]
Intyar: [My guesses:]
_rie_ - _rier_
_lie_ - _lier_
_ree_ - _rii_
_pee_ - _pii_
Nan umimme anwa. Man ista? [But we are not sure. Who knows?]

> Polalye tece ‘adverbs’, ar

**[I will use English here.]
I am sure what do you mean. Do want Quenya words for "adverbs"
etc. or do you want to know how to form them?
Anyway,...
We have adj. _anda_ "long" and adv. _andave_ "long", so we guess
we can form adverbs using this ending (sc. _-ve_).

> ‘comparative’

**Unfortunately we do not know how to form compatives.

> ar ‘superlative’

**With the prefix _an-_ like in _ancalima_ "the brightest".

> ‘adjectives’?

**Hm, hm, do you want to know how you can form adjectives?
Or am I completely out? Your _polalye tece?_ [should be _polilye
tece_] would mean "can you write".

> Ar naa ‘Elfling’ maara naamon ve ni?

**Ai, ma "naamon"? [Alas, what is "naamon"?]

> Meeran i natsemen (web-site?) ‘Ardalambion’.

**Sanalye 'meelan', laa 'meeran', yee, melilme Ardalambion.
[You think 'meelan' (sc. "I am loving"), not 'meeran' (sc. "I am
wanting"), yeah, we love Ardalambion.]


Alda

Thank you for the info! There was no explanation of how to make adverbs or
superlatives in the grammar I found.

I looked at the document you suggested, and was reminded on another
question. What is the "w-curl"? There are several symbols in the tengwar
font that I do not know the meanings of, including three sets of curl
add-ons. Where can I find out about these?

The word "naamon" is the plural of "naamo", which I found in the quenya
corpus wordlist. If I remember correctly, it means "something". Doesn't
really matter.

I was wondering if there was any difference between the verbs "mer-" and
"mel-". Thanks for clearing that up.

Anyway, I have been working on a simple story for my language club with Greg
Dyke. We have discussed the first two paragraphs, and now that I learned how
to operate in Egroups, I can send it to the rest of you!

See you later...

Cuiviendil (Nathan Roy)
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Nathan Roy wrote:

> I looked at the document you suggested, and was reminded on another
> question. What is the "w-curl"?

**If you have instaled Dan Smith' Tengwar fonts, look at the
mentioned article, I added some notes below; no.12 shows this.

> There are several symbols in the tengwar
> font that I do not know the meanings of, including three sets of curl
> add-ons. Where can I find out about these?

**I think you can try Dan Smith' page and his helpfiles:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar.htm
and also try this:
http://user.tninet.se/~xof995c/

> The word "naamon" is the plural of "naamo", which I found in the quenya
> corpus wordlist. If I remember correctly, it means "something". Doesn't
> really matter.

**It is "a judge" or "a person, somebody".

> Anyway, I have been working on a simple story for my language club with Greg
> Dyke. We have discussed the first two paragraphs, and now that I learned how
> to operate in Egroups, I can send it to the rest of you!

**Fine.


Alda

> Nathan Roy wrote:
>
> > Man naa i cilme tengwaron ‘oore’ ar ‘roomen’ mi teecale?
>
> **Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa
> natsemenyasse estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in
> David Salo's enquiry/*essay on my site called 'elm'.]
> http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html
> [Sounds like an advertising, I know...]
>
> > Naar tehtar ve ‘quotation marks’, ‘parentheses’ ar ‘question marks’?
>
> **Maqueta Angasuule! Melis Tengwar: aiya, Angasuule, ma elye sinome?
> Ma polilye resta son?
> [Ask Angasuule! He loves Tengwar: hey, Angasuule, are you here?
> Can you help him?]
> [_resta-_ "aid, help", QL]
  Tancave! Nan quentuvanyes Ilquestanen, laa istan nyaritas Quenyanen
[Certainly! But I will say it in the Common Speech (English, I don't
know how to call it in Quenya), I don't know how to say it in Quenya
(what do you think of the use of -ita here?)].
  Well, about roomen and oore it's not difficult once one has memorized
where to use them, it's pretty much reduced to use oore before full
consonants (all consonants except 'w' and 'y') and finally, and use
roomen before vowels, 'w' and 'y' (which means inital 'r' is written
with roomen).
  As for quotation marks and parentheses I haven't seen any directly from
Tolkien (I lack many books), although I believe he used some in early (I
don't know how early) writings, when he was writing English with
tengwar, you can see them at Dan Smith's help files (I don't have the
address, but you can get it from Ardalambion's links). The question mark
looks like tinco with an extra bow *below* the first one, with the lower
end of the bow reaching and going to the left of the stem. Something
like this (I'm terrible with ASCII art, please forgive!):

  |--\
  |  |
  |-/
  |  \
  |  |
  |  /
  | /
  |/
  /
/

  Angasule

Ahhh... I thought that strange telco symbol looked like punctuation! Writing
systems that are nothing but one letter per sound can be so boring without
interesting surprises in them.

Here are all those curly tehtar I found using the "insert symbol" command
with Tengwar-Quenya font:


      ?             ?           ?          S        ?

       /--\          /--\        --\
----/---/     ----/   /      ----/      ----\        /
    _/                                      --/       /
                                                   \_/

Each one seems to have a counterpart for use with the upper-bowed tengwar as
well. Besides the "s-curl", I have no idea what any of them mean! Being the
kind of person who enjoys strange quirks, it would be great to find them
out.

I also remember some other symbols that looked like modified tengwar. One is
harma with an extra curl coming from the stem, and the other suule with the
letter two instead of a bow:

      /----|            |
     /     |            |
    |   /  |            |/--\
     \  \__|            |   /
                           /
                          /__

Well, if anyone knows some of these, I'd appreciate hearing about them.
Thanks for the info so far!

Cuiviendil (Nathan Roy)
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Well, first of all let me advice you to carry on this topic on
Elfscript, a mailing list dedicated to Tolkien's scripts, to subscribe
to it send a blank email to elfscript-subscribe@egroups.com and messages
should go to elfscript@egroups.com . AFAIK this list is meant for Quenya
texts, for general (and not-so-general) questions about Tolkien's
language there's Elfling, too.

> Here are all those curly tehtar I found using the "insert symbol" command
> with Tengwar-Quenya font:
>
>      ?             ?           ?          S        ?
>
>       /--\          /--\        --\
> ----/---/     ----/   /      ----/      ----\        /
>    _/                                      --/       /
>                                                   \_/
>
> Each one seems to have a counterpart for use with the upper-bowed tengwar as
> well. Besides the "s-curl", I have no idea what any of them mean! Being the
> kind of person who enjoys strange quirks, it would be great to find them
> out.
  All those are s-curls, there's just more than one shape for it.

> I also remember some other symbols that looked like modified tengwar. One is
> harma with an extra curl coming from the stem, and the other suule with the
> letter two instead of a bow:
>
>      /----|            |
>     /     |            |
>    |   /  |            |/--\
>     \  \__|            |   /
>                           /
>                          /__
  No idea about these, they may not be tengwar at all (like 0157 and 0158
;) ).
  Angasule

Alda tence:

> **Lertalye cenda os sine tengwar mi Lavir Salon centa natsemenyasse
estaina Alalme. [You can read about these symbols in David Salo's
enquiry/*essay on my site called 'elm'.]
  http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html

Umin pole hire natsemen sina sii...ma naa URL sina anwa? Var ma naa i
veuro* atalantea?

[I cannot find this website now...is this URL correct? Or is the server
down?]

- Ainon

*Root BEW "follow, serve"; primitive _beuroo_ "follower, vassal, *servant"
(LR:352) > Quenya *_veuro_ "servant, server". Or perhaps it should be
*_veuma_ of a non-personal server?

Ainon tence:

>  http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html
>
> Umin pole hire natsemen sina sii...ma naa URL sina anwa? Var ma naa i
> veuro* atalantea?

**Naalye anwa, laa inye pole hiritas. I veuma seeya atalantea,
umin ista manan. Quentuvan len iire naa maara ata. Hantan len.

[You are right, not even I can find it. The server seems [to be] down,
I do not know why. I will tell you when it is good again. Thank you.]


Alda

_seeya-_ "seem, look", N _thio-_ "to seem", THEE
_manan_ "for what [reason], why"
_hanta-_ "thank, give a thank", from _Eruhantale_ "Thanksgiving
to Eru"

>  http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/spelling.html

**Sii naa envinyanta.

[Now it is healed/repaired.]


Alda

Aiya meldor ar melder,

ma istalye sa alalmenyasse ea tyalie? A tece ananda
Quenya teema uu a-ron. Ma merilye tyale?
Teemanya:
_Cenin Isil hellesse._
I teema Ainonwa:
_Ilye i eleni voro silir menelesse._
A lelya ana:
http://www.inf.upol.cz/~mullerr/theresa/aplay.html

**
Hello friends,

do you know that on my elm [i.e. the name of my webpage]
there is a play? Write any longest Q sentence [_teema_ "row,
serie, *sentence] without a's. Do you want to play?
My sentence:
"I see the Moon on the sky."
The sentence by Helge:
"All the stars ever shine in the sky."
Go to:
...the url...
**


Alda

[I got Eleder's letter privately. I do not know if it was
purposefully or not, but I am replying to this list. Hope
Eleder will not be angry with me : ) ]


Eleder tenke:

> > ma istalye sa alalmenyasse ea tyalie? A tece ananda
> > Quenya teema uu a-ron. Ma merilye tyale?
>
> Ye!! . Sina ná témanya; méran sa haryuvalye limbe i hildi árissen :)

**Hantan len. Vany' anda teema! Merin sa neunar hilyuvar le.
[Thank you. Nice long sentence! I wish that others will follow you.]

> Inye mere tecie lissi tengwi, tuvien i inge meni ELM-esse sinome.

**Yee, sii naalye i inga! (Possibly rather _inye mere/merin tece_...)
[Yeah, now you are the first!]

> Hantalë i tyalienen :)

**Melin tyalier. Tucuvan teemalya alalmenyanna, ma lertan?
[I like games. I will bring/draw/add your sentence to my elm, can I?]


Alda

[I suspect that this belongs to this list, so I am forwarding it
here. If not, I apologize, Nathan, for publishing the privite
letter. I will comment it later when I ain't so busy. -- Alda]

I got your last post on the Quenya mailing list and decided to try my hand
at writing in Elvish without the letter A. Here is what I came up with... I
don't know if it is completely correct, and there is more than one clause,
but here you go:

Quentero, “Sii utuulien luumenn’ omentielvo, sinome Oiolosseo, tienen et i
nuumellon Endoreo: imbe voronde oronti, ter i eressie neni lingwiloocion, o
undu pirucendie eleni mii hiise iluuve.”

He said, “Now I have come to the hour of our meeting, here on Mount
Everwhite, over paths from the lands of Middle Earth: between steadfast
mountains, through the lonely waters of sea-sepents, and beneath gently
whirling stars in the misty universe.”

If the grammar is too iffy, or the words a bit unreliable, it's because I am
trying to string together as much nonsense as possible into one sentance!
The meaning actually works out though; sounds like someone is meeting Manwe
after having traveled over the Great Sea from Middle Earth. (Poetic too...)

Namaarie, Cuiviendil (Nathan Roy)

P.S. Did you get my translation of the first chapter of Matthew? I know you
all actually have adult jobs and such, so just tell me if no one is really
working on it and I'll remain patient!
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____
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Nathan wrote:

Quentero, "Sii utuulien luumenn' omentielvo, sinome Oiolosseo, tienen et i
nuumellon Endoreo: imbe voronde oronti, ter i eressie neni lingwiloocion, o

undu pirucendie eleni mii hiise iluuve."

=

He said, "Now I have come to the hour of our meeting, here on Mount
Everwhite, over paths from the lands of Middle Earth: between steadfast
mountains, through the lonely waters of sea-sepents, and beneath gently
whirling stars in the misty universe."

If the grammar is too iffy, or the words a bit unreliable, it's because I
am
trying to string together as much nonsense as possible into one sentance!

** "He said" = either _quenteero_ with a long _ee_ or _quentes_ with the
short 3rd person ending, or (best of all) the attested form _eques_, "(s)he
said/says", used to introduce quotations.

** I don't recognize _nuumellon_ = "from the lands". Do you mean
_noor(i)ellon_? And why not _Oiolossesse_ for "on Mount Everwhite"?
Locativic genitive (_Oiolosseo_) would truly be a novelty... :)

** _Hiise_ = noun "mist" rather than adjective "misty", but you could of
course claim that _hiise iluuve_ is a loose compound, referring to a "mist
universe" (!)

> P.S. Did you get my translation of the first chapter of Matthew? I know
you  all actually have adult jobs and such, so just tell me if no one is
really  working on it and I'll remain patient!

** Yes, I got it, and I even plan to comment on it, but I am working on
something else now (which I hope you and everybody will see before X-mas).

- Helge Fausaknger

Nathan tence:

> Quentero, "Sii utuulien luumenn' omentielvo, sinome Oiolosseo, tienen et i
> nuumellon Endoreo: imbe voronde oronti, ter i eressie neni lingwiloocion, o
> undu pirucendie eleni mii hiise iluuve."

> He said, "Now I have come to the hour of our meeting, here on Mount
> Everwhite, over paths from the lands of Middle Earth: between steadfast
> mountains, through the lonely waters of sea-sepents, and beneath gently
> whirling stars in the misty universe."

**"here on Mt. Everwhite" _sinome Oiolossesse_ (looks a bit
strange...) rather than _sinome Oiolosseo_.
_tienen_ would be the instrumental "by/with a path", precisely
"over paths" would be _or tier_. [A "puzzle" for everyone:
how would instr. pl. of _tie_ look like? Apparently not
_tieinen_ or yes?]
Rather _Endooreo_ instead of _Endoreo_.
_o undu_ "and under", you meant _ar undu_? But it contains an a,
but "and" could be omitted.
_pirucendie_, sg. _pirucendea_ is of course Qenya form.

Anyway, it is cool! I will certainly add it (just tell me
your opinion about the comments). Who will beat you?


Alda

Aiya!

Si méralyë, pólalyë tulë ar cenda vinya lairë Quenyanen Lukas Novako mi
'Gwaith-i-Pheddain: http://go.to/galadhorn

'If you want, you can come and see new Quenya poem of Lukas Novak at
"Gwaith-i-Pheddain": http://go.to/galadhorn

Ilya,

Alyanorno
Ryszard Derdzinski


maggot@... or galadhorn@...
http://www.kki.net.pl/~galadorn/language.htm

**************************************************************
Richard = GALADHORN < gala- 'prosperous, rich, blessed' (LR 357) + dorn
'stiff, tough, *hard' (WJ 413)

**************************************************************

In my recent message I wrote in Quenya:

Si méralyë [...]
'If you want [...]

It is of course a mistake. In place of _si_ there should be Quenya
hypothetical _*ai_ 'if' [from Quenya _aiquen_ "if anybody, whoever"
(WJ:372)] and all sentence:

Ai méralyë, pólalyë tulë ar cenda vinya lairë Quenyanen Lukas Novako mi
'Gwaith-i-Pheddain: http://go.to/galadhorn

'If you want, you can come and see new Quenya poem of Lukas Novak at
"Gwaith-i-Pheddain": http://go.to/galadhorn

The _si_ comes from Spanish, and of course shouldn't be there. Sorry!

Yours,

Ryszard Derdzinski
(Galadhorn)

maggot@... or galadhorn@...
http://www.kki.net.pl/~galadorn/language.htm

**************************************************************
Richard = GALADHORN < gala- 'prosperous, rich, blessed' (LR 357) + dorn
'stiff, tough, *hard' (WJ 413)

**************************************************************

Hi,

I'm new to this group, so I wanted to introduce myself with a
translation that I made from LotR. It is the hymn to Elbereth
Gilthoniel starting with "Snow-white! Snow-white! O Lady clear!"

It is a first attempt at Quenya, so please correct any mistakes you
may find.

---
Niwispan! Niwispan! A Kher anpoy!
    A tâ telés i ayári ndûiva!
A Kál emmin ranir
    Ëässen galadiva lanna!

Gilthoniel! A Elbereth!
    Nir anpoyi khedily, nir ansil swesilya!
Niwispan! Niwispan! Glinamma elyen.
    Nonna teles ayar.

A eleni Gûnarra Coranarissë
    Sil manen erenen eredië
Pelessë waiwava nár sil-poy.
    Thetammë lotha telepva wana.

A Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
    Si nowommë, nor ndorla
Teles ndorssë unu galasse,
    Sil-elenva teles Ayari Nduiva.
---

Alak.

>From: alak_leafblower@...
>Subject: [quenya] A first try a Quenya
>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:28:03 -0000

**you might do better by sending this to the elfling list.  This list
(Quenya) is for speaking *in* Quenya.

>Hi,
>
>I'm new to this group, so I wanted to introduce myself with a
>translation that I made from LotR. It is the hymn to Elbereth
>Gilthoniel starting with "Snow-white! Snow-white! O Lady clear!"
>
>It is a first attempt at Quenya, so please correct any mistakes you
>may find.
>
>---
>Niwispan! Niwispan! A Kher anpoy!
>    A tâ telés i ayári ndûiva!
>A Kál emmin ranir
>    Ëässen galadiva lanna!

**Um, words that begin with g and nd don't normally occur in Quenya.  The
word for lady in Quenya is just heeri.  (the double e marks an e with an
accent, this convention is used on email lists because many people will see
your diacrits as a jumble).


>Gilthoniel! A Elbereth!

**these names are attested as Tintalle Varda in Quenya.  I think I'll just
stop. I don't know where you got anpoy.

** Lisa Star
** LisaStar@...
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