what ar they suppose to mean?

Thomas
--- pharrah2003 <pharrah2003@...> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Firstly, let me apologize for not using the proper
> language at this
> time. I very newly learning, and do not currently
> know it well enough
> to enable me to communicate this e-mial at this
> time. What I am
> needing help with is the following.
>
> vorser - yH6i$7
> vormel - yH6tRj
>
> Unfortunately my Tengwar - Quenya font is not
> working on yahoo. Above
> is the words as well as the keystrokes for the
> Tengwra-Quenya font.
> What I am curious of is; is the prefix being use
> appropriately? and
> for those who have the font down-loaded, is it
> spelled accurately?
>
> I appreciate and thank you for your assistance on
> this matter as well
> as your time.
>
> Good day to all,
>
> Farra Rana
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>


=====
-----                             "Esti béke, téged köszöntelek,
                                     az úton nehéz napom pora száll;
Thomas Ferencz             lassú szívemben ilyenkor lágyan
                                     szenderg a folyton készülő halál."
                                     (Radnóti M.)

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Valdë nildor ar nildi,
[Worthy friends and friends, *grin*]

Nai meluvalyë mótalenyar.  Emérien tana mótanyar len, ar netë
sanwelyar ar noalyar enten.  Hantanyle lúmelya.
[May it be that you will love my labours/works.  I have desired to
show my works to you, and get your thoughts and ideas
about/concerning/on them.  Thank you for your time.]

Minya:
[First:]

Ant' alcar Ataren, ar Yondon, ar Ainasúlen, ve nes yessessë, ná sín,
ar nauva tennoio. Nasië.
[I saw David Chapman's "Two Christian Prayers" on a web page,
published on the ELFLING list in April 2001, and was intrigued by
them.  I thought though, that maybe there was something about that
whole "glory be" line that needed work.  So I composed my own
translation of the second one (I thought the first was very good, and
I liked the idea of using the instrumental case.)]

Attëa:
[Second:]

Nai mallë ortuva lenna / Nai súrë tuluva tennoio aldamolyallo / Nai
Anar caluva laucavë antalyanna / Nai i mistë lantuva moicavë
lairelyannar / Ar mennai enovantalmë / Nai Eru tiruva le cambessë
máryo.

["May the road rise to meet you / May the wind be always at your
back / May the sun shine warm upon your face / May the rain fall soft
upon your fields / And until we meet again / May God hold you in the
palm of his hand." I heard this in a song and thought that it would
be really nice in Quenya, so I tried my hand at translating it.]

Neldëa:
[Third:]

Linduvan len i lírë laitalëo
Eruo ar vanya melmerya
Linduvanyes i yómeniessë
Írë nanyë quildë sarnessë

Linduvanyes i hellion
Ambaren ar i lien
Linduvanyes ve i lóma
Ter oromarderyassen
Nauvas yellonya sinomë
Auressë entulelyë
Írë tultalyenyë tyulë
Quildevë yánalyassë

Ai, quetuvanyel sérë ar melmë
Quettar Eruo nin quetina
Ar sí nauvas quetina len yando
Ter unqualë yoldoryo cuilen

Linduvanyes i hellion
Tenna Mornië-metta
Linduvanyes ve i lóma
I lurëa fanyaren
Nauvas yellonya sinomë
Ve sornë or i súrë
San Eru yaluva elvë
Quildevë yánaryanna

[Notes: This is an original piece entitled "Lírë Laitalëo", one that
I spend several hours on.  I have not done really well with the metre
or anything, but I have tried to make it as uniform as I can.  I
would love your thoughts on it, however.  Now the questions: Is there
any shorter way of saying "praise" as a noun? Are there any rules
pertaining to the use of the article in poetry? "Shout of triumph" is
a nice word, but is there a verb form of it? I am not sure about the
use of "hellë" or its questionable dativity as "hellion".  Is this a
valid Quenya word for "sky"?]

Hantanyel ata,
Onóno Erya Onóna

[Thank you again (written that way because I didn't know how to
prefix 'ata' to 'hantanyel'!), Thomas the Only Twin]

G'day!

I've wanted to translate "This too will pass. I will remember." into
Quenya and have come up with:

sina yando autuva. enyaluvan.

Could I possibly get some feedback on this? Any advice/help would be
greatly appreciated. :)

Thanks in advance!

scott

--- completely_unaware
<messenger.yahoo.com@...> wrote:
> G'day!
>
> I've wanted to translate "This too will pass. I will
> remember." into
> Quenya and have come up with:
>
> sina yando autuva. enyaluvan.
>
> Could I possibly get some feedback on this? Any
> advice/help would be
> greatly appreciated. :)
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> scott
>

Nas mára.

=====
-----                             "Esti béke, téged köszöntelek,
                                     az úton nehéz napom pora száll;
Thomas Ferencz             lassú szívemben ilyenkor lágyan
                                     szenderg a folyton készülő halál."
                                     (Radnóti M.)

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koron is ball
narwa is fiery red
carne is red

I want to have the k in front, so ...
Which is better:
carne koron
or
koron narwa
?

If vanya- means to disappear, then does áva vanyea or lá vanyea or
umvanyea mean appear in the singular present tense? (no á because of
consonant cluster)

Does linnea tennar mean go to them?

Does linnear urquínnar mean go to the orcs?

This is what I have so far:

Korni narwea
Linnear urquínnar

(English:
Red fiery ball (aka fireball)
Go to the orcs!)

Thanks!!

I want to say web of werewolfs would it be the genitive or
possesive?  How would it be like? Nauroron natse? Nauroive natse?

With fight the elves would it be like nauroron natse mahtear i quendi?

Thanks!!

teithant thenineringwraiths

> I want to have the k in front, so ...
> Which is better:
> carne koron
> or
> koron narwa
> ?

carne coron!

> If vanya- means to disappear, then does áva vanyea
> or lá vanyea or
> umvanyea mean appear in the singular present tense?
> (no á because of
> consonant cluster)

hm.. no.. uvanyea would mean 'not-disappear' and would
make such sense

> Does linnea tennar mean go to them?

excuse me?

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teithant thenineringwraiths

> Does linnea tennar mean go to them?

sounds logical

> Does linnear urquínnar mean go to the orcs?

(they) go to the orcs
(short i)

> This is what I have so far:
>
> Korni narwea
> Linnear urquínnar

but then you need imperative1

coron narwea
linna urquinnar

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--- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
> teithant thenineringwraiths
>
> > Does linnea tennar mean go to them?
>
> sounds logical
>
> > Does linnear urquínnar mean go to the orcs?
>
> (they) go to the orcs
> (short i)
>
> > This is what I have so far:
> >
> > Korni narwea
> > Linnear urquínnar
>
> but then you need imperative1
>
> coron narwea
> linna urquinnar

korn- is the stem of coron, as the english to quenya 'dictionary'
says.  If I want it to be plural is it(forget the imperative)

Korni narwea
(plural -i for nouns ending in a consonant; plural -a for adj ending
in -e)
linnear urquinnar
(present ending for A-stem is a displacing -ea(from -a), plural is -
r; plural ablative is -nnar)
?

What about "Balls, fiery red, (fireballs) / go to the human"?
Is it

Korni narwea
(plural -i for nouns ending in a consonant; plural -a for adj ending
in -e)
linnear firyanna
(present ending for A-stem is a displacing -ea(from -a), plural is -
r; ablative is -nna)
?

Thanks

teithant thenineringwraiths

> Korni narwea
> (plural -i for nouns ending in a consonant; plural
> -a for adj ending
> in -e)

-a in never plural indicator... the plural of
adjectives in -e is -i and it would be narwi

> linnear urquinnar

imperatives dont get plural... linna 'go!'

> What about "Balls, fiery red, (fireballs) / go to
> the human"?

corni narwi
linna firyanna

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> teithant thenineringwraiths
what does 'teithant' mean?
>
> > Korni narwea
> > (plural -i for nouns ending in a consonant; plural
> > -a for adj ending
> > in -e)
>
> -a in never plural indicator... the plural of
> adjectives in -e is -i and it would be narwi
>
> > linnear urquinnar
>
> imperatives dont get plural... linna 'go!'
linnear is the present plural of linna- (to go)!!!
>
> > What about "Balls, fiery red, (fireballs) / go to
> > the human"?
>
> corni narwi
> linna firyanna
korni (no c in quenya)
>
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teithant thenineringwraiths

> what does 'teithant' mean?

'wrote', used in quoting someone

> linnear is the present plural of linna- (to go)!!!

i know it's preesnt plural, but it's not used here...
when you are COMMANDING the fireballs to go somewhere,
it's imperative that it's used... or else the meaning
is 'balls of fire, they go/are going to the orcs'

in spells you are using imperative

> korni (no c in quenya)

there is c in quenya, as much as there is k (it's
actually the same letter/sound)

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Melda ilye,
Ma aiquen nete mentalenya?
Onoono

(Dear all,)
(Did anyone get my message?)
(Onoono)

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003, Tom Killingbeck wrote:

> Melda ilye,
> Ma aiquen nete mentalenya?
> Onoono
>
> (Dear all,)
> (Did anyone get my message?)
> (Onoono)

Which message?

-Mark

Aiya!

Neldë var canta astar yá, tencen ta yando. Sinómë ya nenten:
Lairë Envinyataro

Lá ilqua i ilca ná malta
ar lá ilya ránen lië vanta vanwa.
Tumnë sundannar lá tulë i nixë,
i vëa enwinamo lá firë.
Orontillon ortuva nárë,
ar cálë tihtuva lómessen.
I úrína euva aran ata,
ennambuvantë i rácina macil.

Tenn' encenië,
Ingóliva Heru

Which message?

  -Mark

The one that included these pieces of work that it doesn't seem like
I can get anyone to comment on... is there nothing wrong with them?
Is there no area I can grow in?  I would love some advice, and some
help at making my Quenya better.  Thanks,
Onoono

Minya:
[First:]

Ant' alcar Ataren, ar Yondon, ar Ainasúlen, ve nes yessessë, ná sín,
ar nauva tennoio. Nasië.
[I saw David Chapman's "Two Christian Prayers" on a web page,
published on the ELFLING list in April 2001, and was intrigued by
them. I thought though, that maybe there was something about that
whole "glory be" line that needed work. So I composed my own
translation of the second one (I thought the first was very good, and
I liked the idea of using the instrumental case.)]

Attëa:
[Second:]

Nai mallë ortuva lenna / Nai súrë tuluva tennoio aldamolyallo / Nai
Anar caluva laucavë antalyanna / Nai i mistë lantuva moicavë
lairelyannar / Ar mennai enovantalmë / Nai Eru tiruva le cambessë
máryo.

["May the road rise to meet you / May the wind be always at your
back / May the sun shine warm upon your face / May the rain fall soft
upon your fields / And until we meet again / May God hold you in the
palm of his hand." I heard this in a song and thought that it would
be really nice in Quenya, so I tried my hand at translating it.]

Neldëa:
[Third:]

Linduvan len i lírë laitalëo
Eruo ar vanya melmerya
Linduvanyes i yómeniessë
Írë nanyë quildë sarnessë

Linduvanyes i hellion
Ambaren ar i lien
Linduvanyes ve i lóma
Ter oromarderyassen
Nauvas yellonya sinomë
Auressë entulelyë
Írë tultalyenyë tyulë
Quildevë yánalyassë

Ai, quetuvanyel sérë ar melmë
Quettar Eruo nin quetina
Ar sí nauvas quetina len yando
Ter unqualë yoldoryo cuilen

Linduvanyes i hellion
Tenna Mornië-metta
Linduvanyes ve i lóma
I lurëa fanyaren
Nauvas yellonya sinomë
Ve sornë or i súrë
San Eru yaluva elvë
Quildevë yánaryanna

[Notes: This is an original piece entitled "Lírë Laitalëo", one that
I spend several hours on. I have not done really well with the metre
or anything, but I have tried to make it as uniform as I can. I
would love your thoughts on it, however. Now the questions: Is there
any shorter way of saying "praise" as a noun? Are there any rules
pertaining to the use of the article in poetry? "Shout of triumph" is
a nice word, but is there a verb form of it? I am not sure about the
use of "hellë" or its questionable dativity as "hellion". Is this a
valid Quenya word for "sky"?]

--- Tom Killingbeck <tntkillingbeck@...> wrote:

Cé enge lá nanquetta mentalyanna an ananda nes... Mára
nas anda mentar cilien.


>
> Minya:
> [First:]
>
> Ant' alcar Ataren, ar Yondon, ar Ainasúlen, ve nes
> yessessë, ná sín,
> ar nauva tennoio. Nasië.

You do not post the English, sadly. But if you use the
pronominal suffix -s in _nes_, why not in _ná_ and
_nauva_ also? They refer to the same subject "as it
was, is and will be_ I presume.

tuva lenna / Nai súrë tuluva tennoio
> aldamolyallo

This to me means "May the wind come from your back
forever". Why ablative?

/ Nai
> Anar caluva laucavë antalyanna / Nai i mistë lantuva
> moicavë
> lairelyannar / Ar mennai enovantalmë

_mennai_ is rather old; _tenna_ might be a better
choice (You've used it yourself in tennoio)

/ Nai Eru
> tiruva le cambessë
> máryo.

a possibility for "hold" could be cep- from Sindarin
ceb- (ú-chebin Estel anim)


> Neldëa:
> [Third:]
>
> Linduvan len i lírë laitalëo
> Eruo ar vanya melmerya
> Linduvanyes i yómeniessë
> Írë nanyë quildë sarnessë
>
> Linduvanyes i hellion
> Ambaren ar i lien
> Linduvanyes ve i lóma
> Ter oromarderyassen
> Nauvas yellonya sinomë
> Auressë entulelyë
> Írë tultalyenyë tyulë
> Quildevë yánalyassë
>
> Ai, quetuvanyel sérë ar melmë
> Quettar Eruo nin quetina
> Ar sí nauvas quetina len yando
> Ter unqualë yoldoryo cuilen
>
> Linduvanyes i hellion
> Tenna Mornië-metta
> Linduvanyes ve i lóma
> I lurëa fanyaren
> Nauvas yellonya sinomë
> Ve sornë or i súrë

It is always a good thing to post your intended
meaning.

Bye,

Thomas
> San Eru yaluva elvë
> Quildevë yánaryanna


=====
-----
Thomas Ferencz                "Suddenly it strikes you that they're moving into
range
                                            and Doctor Strange is always changing
size."

                                             (Pink Floyd: Cymbaline)

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Thank you for your help.  There were several little things that
needed work, so thank you for pointing them out to me!

Ant' alcar Ataren, ar Yondon, ar Ainasúlen, ve nes yessessë, nas sín,
ar nauvas tennoio. Nasië.

> You do not post the English, sadly. But if you
> use the pronominal suffix -s in _nes_, why not in
> _ná_ and _nauva_ also? They refer to the same
> subject "as it was, is and will be_ I presume.

Literal translation: "Give glory to the Father, and to the Son, and
to the Holy Spirit, like it was in the beginning, is now, and will be
forever.  Amen."

Nai súrë tuluva tennoio aldamolyallo

> This to me means "May the wind come from your back
> forever". Why ablative?

The English words go "May the wind be always at your back."  I
couldn't work out a translation of that, based on my rather limited
understanding of Quenya - especially in regards to "at"!

Here is the English translation of the poem, as far as it goes…

Linduvan len i lírë laitalëo I will sing the song of praise
Eruo ar vanya melmerya  Of Eru and his beautiful love
Linduvanyes i yómeniessë I will sing it in the gathering
Írë nanyë quildë sarnessë When I am in the quiet place

Linduvanyes i hellion  I will sing it to the skies
Ambaren ar i lien  To the Earth and to the people
Linduvanyes ve i lóma  I will sing it like the trumpet blast
Ter oromarderyassen  Through his lofty halls
(I'm not sure why I used the locative here - but I need an extra
syllable!)
Nauvas yellonya sinomë  It will be my shout of triumph (here)
Auressë entulelyë  In the day (when) you return
Írë tultalyenyë tyulë  When you summon me to stand
Quildevë yánalyassë  Quietly in your sanctuary

Ai, quetuvan len sérë ar melmë Oh, I will speak to you peace and love
Quettar Eruo nin quetina Words of Eru to me spoken
Ar sí nauvas quetina len yando And now it will be spoken to you also
Ter unqualë yoldoryo cuilen Through the death of his son for life

Linduvanyes i hellion  I will sing it to the skies
Tenna Mornië-metta  Until the end of the Darkness
Linduvanyes ve i lóma  I will sing it like the trumpet blast
I lúrëa fanyaren  Against the darkening skies
Nauvas yellonya sinomë  It will be my shout of triumph here
Ve sornë or i súrë  Like the eagle over the wind
San Eru yaluva elvë  Then Eru will call us
Quildevë yánaryanna  Quietly into His sanctuary

Thank you again for your help.  And I apologise for the size of the
post!

Ta,
Onóno

You already got a mistake in the Greetings on the Hom site:
>"Nai i kwet ayan eledion nuve tur!"
as far as  I know that would be:
"nai i aina lambe(maybe even _ainalambe_ together) Eldaron nauva ture"

If you wanted really much this to be with the "quet-" stem then -
_quetil_ is the name for "language".
Why "Eledion"??? Where did you find such word for "elf"?
"Nuve" is wrong form, and all of the writers use _nauva_ as a proper
one.
"Tur" itself is a stem. You need an infinitive here, thus "ture"
(end -e).

Ok, thats about my questions to this. Anyway Im still a fresh student
of quenya so i may as well make many mistakes, but hey:)))

       Vendis

[Nausë avaista lerta vanimë nati onte; Ista avanausë - er nati velicë]

--- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, "Ainuriel Ondo" <aandrews@w...> wrote:
> Here's the final product, thank you to all who helped with the
> translation, I am indebted.
>
> Melda
> Nalye i vista ya suyan
> i anwa serce hroanyasse
> orenya na quanta moice
>
> a miquilat ni arinesse
> enyalie na asinye ilya auresse
> tenna polin sere mi ranculyat
>
> Nan alafirima melda
>
> Again my thanks!
>
> Ainuriel

Really? Final product? One cannot change anything from now? Anyway ,
some my suggestions, if you're interested of course:)))
"enyalie na asinye ilya auresse"< - "asenye" instead of "asinye"
"ranculyat" is somthing like "double dual" here, either "ranculya"
or "rancolyat", you decide(As for Tolkien, he said the dual ending -t
olways, but ranculya sounds better to me)
"Naan alafirima..." <- long vovel a here
Id give "ilfirin" for immortal and maybe "meldalya" in the end to
denote - "your beloved"...
And - the anding -t, that you use for "you" is actually not attested,
(only attested examples use it as for "they, them"), but...

    Vendis
[nausë avaista lerta vanimë nati onte, Ista avanausë - er nati velicë]

--- Kate <vendis@...> wrote:

> "enyalie na asinye ilya auresse"< - "asenye" instead
> of "asinye"

actually, _asinye_ is correct, _as-_ "with" + _inye_
"I"

Thomas

=====
-----
Thomas Ferencz

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Thank you, I will take your suggestions under consideration.  I
appreciate you taking the time to go over it for me.  There is always
room for improvement, I believe.

Ainuriel

-----Original Message-----
From: Kate [mailto:vendis@...]
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 7:40 AM
To: quenya@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [quenya] Re: Final product of Melda poem


--- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, "Ainuriel Ondo" <aandrews@w...> wrote:
> Here's the final product, thank you to all who helped with the
> translation, I am indebted.
>
> Melda
> Nalye i vista ya suyan
> i anwa serce hroanyasse
> orenya na quanta moice
>
> a miquilat ni arinesse
> enyalie na asinye ilya auresse
> tenna polin sere mi ranculyat
>
> Nan alafirima melda
>
> Again my thanks!
>
> Ainuriel

Really? Final product? One cannot change anything from now? Anyway ,
some my suggestions, if you're interested of course:)))
"enyalie na asinye ilya auresse"< - "asenye" instead of "asinye"
"ranculyat" is somthing like "double dual" here, either "ranculya"
or "rancolyat", you decide(As for Tolkien, he said the dual ending -t
olways, but ranculya sounds better to me)
"Naan alafirima..." <- long vovel a here
Id give "ilfirin" for immortal and maybe "meldalya" in the end to
denote - "your beloved"...
And - the anding -t, that you use for "you" is actually not attested,
(only attested examples use it as for "they, them"), but...

    Vendis
[nausë avaista lerta vanimë nati onte, Ista avanausë - er nati velicë]



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able to provide for download a PDF version of _Vinyar Tengwar_ issue
43, containing the presentation and analysis of Tolkien's Quenya
translations of the _Paternoster_ (_Átaremma_), the _Ave Maria_ (_Aia
María_), and the _Gloria Patri_ (_Alcar i Ataren_):

	 http://www.elvish.org/VT/sample.html

Enjoy!


--
=============================================
Carl F. Hostetter   Aelfwine@...   http://www.elvish.org

		    ho bios brachys, he de techne makre.
			        Ars longa, vita brevis.
	         The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.
"I wish life was not so short," he thought.  "Languages take such
      a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about."

Aiya ilquen I am presently studying Quenya and enkoy the language
very much, have translated a number of poems of J.R.R. Tolkien's
into Quenya and now working on getting the Quenya week sorted out
here is what I have so far, any improvements would be appreciated as
I like to get things correct.

Monday : Isilya
Tuesday : Aldúya
Wednesday : Elenya
Thursday : Menelya
Friday : Valanya (or Tárion)
Saturday : Earenya
Sunday : Anarya


January : Narvinye
February : Nénimë
March : Súlimë
April : Víressë
May : Lótessë
June : Nárië
July : Cermië
August : Úrimë
September : Yavannië
October : Narquelië
November : Hísimë
December : Ringarë

Namárie also Hantalë for all your help: LadyMeg

teithant Margie

> Monday : Isilya
> Tuesday : Aldúya
> Wednesday : Elenya
> Thursday : Menelya
> Friday : Valanya (or Tárion)
> Saturday : Earenya
> Sunday : Anarya

elenya was the chief week day, like our sunday.. if
you want tofollow this, put elenya on sundey etc

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
ÁðïêôÞóôå ôç äùñåÜí @yahoo.gr äéåýèõíóç óáò óôï http://www.otenet.gr

aiya
you also need to remember that Earenya is a Numenorean 'invention'.
The Elven weekday was only 6 days.  (Though I too in my list have
Earenya as 'Saturday' :)

--- In quenya@yahoogroups.com, Gildor Inglorion <elfiness@y...> wrote:
> teithant Margie
>
> > Monday : Isilya
> > Tuesday : Aldúya
> > Wednesday : Elenya
> > Thursday : Menelya
> > Friday : Valanya (or Tárion)
> > Saturday : Earenya
> > Sunday : Anarya
>
> elenya was the chief week day, like our sunday.. if
> you want tofollow this, put elenya on sundey etc

I`m searching someone who could hlp me in learning Sindarin?

www.councilofelrond.com has a Sindarin course, as well as a forum where you
can ask questions and have them answered by teachers and fellow students.
/Ann-Sofie

-----------
    Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:15:28 -0000
    From: "dostawca_drewna_na_kraj" <dostawca_drewna_na_kraj@...>
Subject: Teacher needed

I`m searching someone who could hlp me in learning Sindarin?