I noticed that Mike Cohen has converted A Theme Apart from Manila to Radio.



http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$10525



Has anyone tried this? Can it it be improved? Does it have all the required

elements?



Should we ship it?



Dave

> Has anyone tried this?



<a href="http://radio.weblogs.com/0001018/">Yes</a>!



> Can it it be improved?



What can't? ;-)



> Does it have all the required elements?



It could use an xmlCoffeeMug.



> Should we ship it?



If you're in a rush, then yes. If you can wait a day or two, then I

think it would be good to give people a chance to comment.



Jeff

One thing that I would change -- make the style sheet(s) external

references rather than including them in the template (Can a

Radio Theme include additional files?). This way browsers can

cache the CSS reducing load times and reducing the amount of

disk space used.



Jeff

>>If you're in a rush, then yes. If you can wait a day or two, then I

think it would be good to give people a chance to comment.



I can wait a day or two. Not in a rush. Let's do this right, get at

least one good CSS-based theme for Radio users.



BTW, I just want to kick back on this list. I'm not a designer. You

guys are. I hope! ;->



Dave

I think it's important to note(I should say that I'm not one of the CSS

maniacs.) that this theme uses tables extensively.  So while it does use CSS

for styles, it's not really what people who are CSS maniacs are looking for,

I believe.



Robert Occhialini







> I noticed that Mike Cohen has converted A Theme Apart from Manila to Radio.

>

> http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$10525

>

> Has anyone tried this? Can it it be improved? Does it have all the required

> elements?

>

> Should we ship it?

>

> Dave

>

>

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Well, I just took a look at the original(I was looking at Jeff's use of

it.), and it has tables only for the purpose of drawing the calendar. Sorry

for jumping to conclusions about the theme from just looking at Jeff's use

of it.   Perhaps we could all work together to get the calendar rendering in

CSS somehow.  I think that that would be the next step.



Robert Occhialini











>

>

> I think it's important to note(I should say that I'm not one of the CSS

> maniacs.) that this theme uses tables extensively.  So while it does use CSS

> for styles, it's not really what people who are CSS maniacs are looking for,

> I believe.

>

> Robert Occhialini

>

>

>

>> I noticed that Mike Cohen has converted A Theme Apart from Manila to Radio.

>>

>> http://radio.userland.com/discuss/msgReader$10525

>>

>> Has anyone tried this? Can it it be improved? Does it have all the required

>> elements?

>>

>> Should we ship it?

>>

>> Dave

>>

>>

>> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

>> ADVERTISEMENT

>>

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=218512.1856015.3360178.1269402/D=egroupweb/S=170603041>>

3

>>

:HM/A=928901/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;3788034;6800959;v%3fhttp://ww>>

w

>> .verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b228473240057000>

>>

>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>> radio-design-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>>

>>

>>

>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service

>> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

> ADVERTISEMENT

> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=218512.1856015.3360178.1269402/D=egroupweb/S=1706030413

> :HM/A=928901/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;3788034;6800959;v%3fhttp://www

> .verisign.com/cgi-bin/go.cgi?a=b228473240057000>

>

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

> radio-design-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service

> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

It is using tables -- not only for the calendar, but also for the

newsDay and newsItem. I'm working on fleshing these out, but

I'm going to have to leave soon -- before my girlfriend leaves me.

;-)



Maybe later. Or tomorrow.



Jeff

http://www.cybersaps.co.uk/



I'm only using tables in the calendar. It's taken from Glish and marked so

in the html.



Had to modify some scripts in Radio so that it would display nicely with

local pages, particularly the <textarea name="itemtext" on the home page,

and the tables on news page, thus I don't want to release it, unless it's to

people who know what's what.



Looks nice on Mac Classic, Opera, Mozila and IE 5. Supposed to look good on

PC too, does it? iCab on Classic makes a balls up of it though, but at least

you can still read it in logical order.



Anybody want it to play?



--

Steve Hooker

Business blog - http://www.cyberSaps.com/

Personal blog - http://steve.cyberSaps.com/

>Perhaps we could all work together to get the calendar

>rendering in CSS somehow. I think that that would

>be the next step.



Tables are quite good at displaying tabulated data, the calendar is

probably best left as a table. (Plus we'd have to write our own table

renderer since the calendar is hard coded to be an HTML table).



I can remember endless problem trying to do CSS designs in Manilla and

Radio. I think the best place to start is to start making designs so

we can make a list of all the (very specific) places Manilla and Radio

get in our way.



James.

On Sun, 2002-02-17 at 23:38, jamesspahr wrote:

> >Perhaps we could all work together to get the calendar

> >rendering in CSS somehow. I think that that would

> >be the next step.

>

> Tables are quite good at displaying tabulated data, the calendar is

> probably best left as a table. (Plus we'd have to write our own table

> renderer since the calendar is hard coded to be an HTML table).

>

> I can remember endless problem trying to do CSS designs in Manilla and

> Radio. I think the best place to start is to start making designs so

> we can make a list of all the (very specific) places Manilla and Radio

> get in our way.

>

> James.



Indeed.  I put a Blue Robot 3 column layout onto my Manila site

http://pberry.weblogger.com and for the most part it "works."



Here is the main area where I run into problems:

* /stats/mostReadMessages - the middle column has tablular data (which

should be in tables) but are two wide for the middle column



I ran into a lot of problems on the admin pages, but I simply turned the

"theme" off for those pages and that solved all my forms over running

the middle div problems.



This has already been mentioned as a solution for linking an external

style sheet, but it worked great for me, and that is to make you css a

gem and link it accordingly.



With the exception of that "main" problem, I think it came out very

well.  I mean, it even looks good in lynx!  It looks like there is

basically no theme in NS4, but the information is still available and

reads in a logical fashion.  Again, a big thanks to www.bluerobot.com

for all the hard work!  I may try moving my Radio Weblog to the "new" 3

column layout at www.saila.com since they claim NS4 compatability.



Cheers,

Pat

>This has already been mentioned as a solution for linking an

external

>style sheet, but it worked great for me, and that is to make you

css a

>gem and link it accordingly.



When I read this a bulb lit up in my head.



I thought that external style sheets would be a problem because

there's currently no mechanism for including gems in themes,

but you don't have to include the style sheet(s) with the Theme.

You only need to include references to the style sheet(s). The

style sheet(s) could easily reside in the Theme author's gems

folder.



Even if you're publishing your weblog to your own server you still

have a usernum and space on UserLand's xml cloud so you

could put any style sheets associated with your Themes there

and not worry about everyone using your Themes sucking up

your bandwidth.



Anybody see a problem with this? It seems too easy...



Jeff

While not a CSS "maniac," I do see the benefit to using CSS to further

separate design from content. A table--even a set of neseted tables--is

fine for things like the calendar. That's what tables are

for--presenting tabular data. Where most CSS advocates get itchy is when

tables are used to define a design grid.



In the case of the calendar, it should be a table. But *placement* of

the table within the page should be controlled by a CSS element.



From an information architecture viewpoint, I much prefer designs based

on an external style sheet because they:



	 - are easier to develop

	 - are easier to maintain

	 - much more efficient

       - make for smaller pages



But the big one is always that CSS furhter separates design from

content. This should be the primary concern of any content management

system, regardless of whether it is server- or desktop-based.



--

Michael Fraase

ARTS & FARCES LLC

mfraase@...

www.farces.com

PGP Fingerprint:

3D85 F3F4 9E65 4949 176A  260C CB47 190D C864 9A96



> -----Original Message-----

> Message: 4

>    Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:58:04 -0500

>    From: Robert Occhialini <robert@...>

> Subject: Re: First topic: A CSS theme for Radio?

>

> I think it's important to note(I should say that I'm not one

> of the CSS

> maniacs.) that this theme uses tables extensively.  So while

> it does use CSS for styles, it's not really what people who

> are CSS maniacs are looking for, I believe.

>

> Robert Occhialini



{....]



> Message: 5

>    Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 22:13:34 -0500

>    From: Robert Occhialini <robert@...>

> Subject: Re: First topic: A CSS theme for Radio?

>

> Well, I just took a look at the original(I was looking at

> Jeff's use of it.), and it has tables only for the purpose of

> drawing the calendar. Sorry for jumping to conclusions about

> the theme from just looking at Jeff's use

> of it.   Perhaps we could all work together to get the

> calendar rendering in

> CSS somehow.  I think that that would be the next step.

>

> Robert Occhialini