On a somewhat related topic.

Does anyone know a way with 10.2.6 to have the finder appear with
Cyrillic Russian menus, rather than English ones?  All of the utilities
that seem to be intended for that purpose seem to fail on 10.2.6.

-George

> hmmm. my suspicions about 10.2.6 are starting to be confirmed from
> several sources.
> I am doing TOO much Norton and the X disk utility together to keep
> 10.2.6 clean. I didn't need to do it with 10.2.5.
> In order to do this HFS+ cleanup faster, of course, I am booting from
> my B/U FW boot disk which has Norton Utilities for X also.
> it's the same low level stuff all the time, wrong allocation sizes,
> wrong boot volume name, wrong shell name, the majors..., they are all
> fixable.
> What interested me in your message is the Keyword "Ethernet".. I am
> connected wirelessly to a Belkin wireless/Enet cable router and thus
> to a Zyxel 645 adsl modem via Ethernet betweem router and modem. I
> don't have a Ethernet print server for USB printers YET.  However, I
> have another Enet piece, my PS2, which connects to the belkin router
> only via Enet cable, when I have the neighbor kids playing online
> using my adsl, while I am still online with my 'lamp' after a while my
> iMac flatpanel "lamp" "looses" its wireless connection to the router.
> I then have a few times when this has happened fired off my VAIO
> laptop with XP home, and lo and behold the winblows laptop can access
> the wireless router and the net while the 'lamp' can't...this did not
> happen ever with 10.2.5.
>
> But all of this is par for the course...Apple doesnt want to know
> anymore about "Jaguar" ..it is all "panther" now...sometimes I feel I
> am swimming breast stroke in the Florida Straits.
>
> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 06:52  AM, Igor Kramberger wrote:
>
>> Perhaps Mellel and 10.2.6 update needed some time before they started
>> to cooperate. I had similar troubles with the Ethernet connection to
>> my printer -- as I had read on other mailing lists I was not the only
>> influenced person.
>>
>> Respectfully,
--
George Edward Green III
CEO and Board Chairman of Curent Solutions Inc.:
http://www.curentsolutions.com
AIM: kharaku, X5-053: http:/www.x5452.com

COBOL: http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com
electronica & hip hop beats, with alt, punk, and industrial melodies

"The Use of COBOL cripples the mind; It's teaching should, therefore,
be regarded as a criminal offense."
-  Edsgar Dijkstra, famous mathematician

If you are switching from the OS International preferences: Not
possible yet, it is all ROMAN languages for now, and not very many of
them either. For instance, catalan is a Roman language very close to
Spanish, but I can't force catalan into the finder menu, I can put it
there using the edit button, but it is useless.
only the languages that were in the list when you were installing the
system..and that includes the Oriental languages...but not the middle
eastern or the cyrillic languages, all we have is Keyboard layouts for
those.
but I didn't know that there were utilities that would put a third
party russian finder menu up! ?
yes ?


On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 01:35  PM, G3 wrote:

> On a somewhat related topic.
>
> Does anyone know a way with 10.2.6 to have the finder appear with
> Cyrillic Russian menus, rather than English ones?  All of the
> utilities that seem to be intended for that purpose seem to fail on
> 10.2.6.
>
> -George
>
>> hmmm. my suspicions about 10.2.6 are starting to be confirmed from
>> several sources.
>> I am doing TOO much Norton and the X disk utility together to keep
>> 10.2.6 clean. I didn't need to do it with 10.2.5.
>> In order to do this HFS+ cleanup faster, of course, I am booting from
>> my B/U FW boot disk which has Norton Utilities for X also.
>> it's the same low level stuff all the time, wrong allocation sizes,
>> wrong boot volume name, wrong shell name, the majors..., they are all
>> fixable.
>> What interested me in your message is the Keyword "Ethernet".. I am
>> connected wirelessly to a Belkin wireless/Enet cable router and thus
>> to a Zyxel 645 adsl modem via Ethernet betweem router and modem. I
>> don't have a Ethernet print server for USB printers YET.  However, I
>> have another Enet piece, my PS2, which connects to the belkin router
>> only via Enet cable, when I have the neighbor kids playing online
>> using my adsl, while I am still online with my 'lamp' after a while
>> my iMac flatpanel "lamp" "looses" its wireless connection to the
>> router. I then have a few times when this has happened fired off my
>> VAIO laptop with XP home, and lo and behold the winblows laptop can
>> access the wireless router and the net while the 'lamp' can't...this
>> did not happen ever with 10.2.5.
>>
>> But all of this is par for the course...Apple doesnt want to know
>> anymore about "Jaguar" ..it is all "panther" now...sometimes I feel I
>> am swimming breast stroke in the Florida Straits.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 06:52  AM, Igor Kramberger wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps Mellel and 10.2.6 update needed some time before they started
>>> to cooperate. I had similar troubles with the Ethernet connection to
>>> my printer -- as I had read on other mailing lists I was not the only
>>> influenced person.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
> --
> George Edward Green III
> CEO and Board Chairman of Curent Solutions Inc.:
> http://www.curentsolutions.com
> AIM: kharaku, X5-053: http:/www.x5452.com
>
> COBOL: http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com
> electronica & hip hop beats, with alt, punk, and industrial melodies
>
> "The Use of COBOL cripples the mind; It's teaching should, therefore,
> be regarded as a criminal offense."
> -  Edsgar Dijkstra, famous mathematician

Well there are utilities that are supposed to automate hacking the
keyboard layouts and international scripts to make it work.  I would
like to do it because I'm trying to learn Russian in a hurry.   I have
some apps that do it flawlessly... Fire (aim multimessager client)  I
have a hacked safari version that does it... and a few other built in
apps do it... but I'm not sure what they look at to figure out how to
load the menus, and what language to use or why they do it and Finder
doesn't.

Also I am baffled as to how to get Mellel to use a Russian Cyrillic
spell checker...

-George

On Понедельник, май 26, 2003, at 04:15 Europe/Moscow, Sergio
Valdes-Flores wrote:

> If you are switching from the OS International preferences: Not
> possible yet, it is all ROMAN languages for now, and not very many of
> them either. For instance, catalan is a Roman language very close to
> Spanish, but I can't force catalan into the finder menu, I can put it
> there using the edit button, but it is useless.
> only the languages that were in the list when you were installing the
> system..and that includes the Oriental languages...but not the middle
> eastern or the cyrillic languages, all we have is Keyboard layouts for
> those.
> but I didn't know that there were utilities that would put a third
> party russian finder menu up! ?
> yes ?
>
>
> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 01:35  PM, G3 wrote:
>
>> On a somewhat related topic.
>>
>> Does anyone know a way with 10.2.6 to have the finder appear with
>> Cyrillic Russian menus, rather than English ones?  All of the
>> utilities that seem to be intended for that purpose seem to fail on
>> 10.2.6.
>>
>> -George
>>
>>
--
George Edward Green III
CEO and Board Chairman of Curent Solutions Inc.:
http://www.curentsolutions.com
AIM: kharaku, X5-053: http:/www.x5452.com

COBOL: http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com
electronica & hip hop beats, with alt, punk, and industrial melodies

"The Use of COBOL cripples the mind; It's teaching should, therefore,
be regarded as a criminal offense."
-  Edsgar Dijkstra, famous mathematician

hmm...the utilities menus load on the menu bar, right on top of the
finder menu, BUT, they are not the finder menu itself.
for instance...when i switched to portuguese from catalan, the finder
switched..no problem there..
when I switched back to Catalan (It is all Iberian anyhow), the finder
stayed in portuguese and the apps that I had that had Catalan menuing,
worked well  in Catalan, but on top of a portuguese finder menu...
if you find a way to 'hack' the finder menu for ANY
internationalization before Jobs' team does it, let us know, specially
me!
did you get the sherlock plugin for russian dictionary ?? you'll need
that!
Thanks
Sergio
(the only way to enter the hard knox market of the middle east with
their non-roman alphabet languages is to give them 'their' stuff in
their language, SPECIALLY, the help on the finder)
Did you ever hear about the brasilian linux version (intel) ? the
penetration of the little more 'desktop rustic' linux in the major
country in South America, is because all the linux help files and the
man pages, yes, even them, were translated to PORTUGUESE by Conectiva...
such a thing is not accomplished yet in Israel. thus Gates wins in that
market, while in Brasil, Linux through that distro and NON other is
gaining more and more of the ground Gates initially won since windows
3.1 in portuguese.



On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 09:29  PM, G3 wrote:

> Well there are utilities that are supposed to automate hacking the
> keyboard layouts and international scripts to make it work.  I would
> like to do it because I'm trying to learn Russian in a hurry.   I have
> some apps that do it flawlessly... Fire (aim multimessager client)  I
> have a hacked safari version that does it... and a few other built in
> apps do it... but I'm not sure what they look at to figure out how to
> load the menus, and what language to use or why they do it and Finder
> doesn't.
>
> Also I am baffled as to how to get Mellel to use a Russian Cyrillic
> spell checker...
>
> -George
>
> On Понедельник, май 26, 2003, at 04:15 Europe/Moscow, Sergio
> Valdes-Flores wrote:
>
>> If you are switching from the OS International preferences: Not
>> possible yet, it is all ROMAN languages for now, and not very many of
>> them either. For instance, catalan is a Roman language very close to
>> Spanish, but I can't force catalan into the finder menu, I can put it
>> there using the edit button, but it is useless.
>> only the languages that were in the list when you were installing the
>> system..and that includes the Oriental languages...but not the middle
>> eastern or the cyrillic languages, all we have is Keyboard layouts for
>> those.
>> but I didn't know that there were utilities that would put a third
>> party russian finder menu up! ?
>> yes ?
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 01:35  PM, G3 wrote:
>>
>>> On a somewhat related topic.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know a way with 10.2.6 to have the finder appear with
>>> Cyrillic Russian menus, rather than English ones?  All of the
>>> utilities that seem to be intended for that purpose seem to fail on
>>> 10.2.6.
>>>
>>> -George
>>>
>>>
> --
> George Edward Green III
> CEO and Board Chairman of Curent Solutions Inc.:
> http://www.curentsolutions.com
> AIM: kharaku, X5-053: http:/www.x5452.com
>
> COBOL: http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com
> electronica & hip hop beats, with alt, punk, and industrial melodies
>
> "The Use of COBOL cripples the mind; It's teaching should, therefore,
> be regarded as a criminal offense."
> -  Edsgar Dijkstra, famous mathematician
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important
> Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/MqWylB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

You can use a Russian Spell Checker by CocoASpell which works nicely in
Mellel.
You can download CocoASpell here:
http://www-ciir.cs.umass.edu/~leouski/cocoaspell/

The Russian spell checker may be downloaded from here:
http://www-ciir.cs.umass.edu/~leouski/cocoaspell/dictionaries.html


Ori

On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 04:29 Asia/Jerusalem, G3 wrote:

>
> Also I am baffled as to how to get Mellel to use a Russian Cyrillic
> spell checker...

--- In redlex@yahoogroups.com, G3 <kharaku@k...> wrote:
> On a somewhat related topic.
>
> Does anyone know a way with 10.2.6 to have the finder appear with
> Cyrillic Russian menus, rather than English ones?  All of the utilities
> that seem to be intended for that purpose seem to fail on 10.2.6.
>
I would not bet it works, but anyway you found that Cyrillic is not directly
'visible' in
MAC OS X without some addition: either the Cyrillic Language Kit is installed in
MAC
OS 9.x, or, if you dont use Classic any longer, you MUST install Misha
Kuleshov's
CyrilliX 1.2 (for Jaguar or later):
http://www.mikeosx.com/files/CyrillixLite.sit
After installing and restarting (in fact, it is sufficient to log out/in),
Cyrillic is
available.
Try and let me know.
Sorin Paliga

Hi to all,

Sergio Valdes-Flores wrote:
>  I am doing TOO much Norton and the X disk utility together to keep
>  10.2.6 clean. I didn't need to do it with 10.2.5.
>  In order to do this HFS+ cleanup faster, of course, I am booting from
>  my B/U FW boot disk which has Norton Utilities for X also.
Hm, I have Symantec's SystemWorks 2.0, which are supposed to work
with Mac OS X, but they do only in a limited way.

Which version of Norton [Utilities? Disk Doctor?] are you using?

Those error messages are *normal* for the U*NIX system because of the
way how Norton Disk Doctor is able to determine some values. At least
I have read about this at several places -- and I stopped to check
the disk with Norton Utilities version 7.

I did not buy until now X disk utility [from MicroMat?]. I am waiting
for TechTool Pro version 4 -- last time I checked it was still only
announced (I have used versions 2 and 3).

>  What interested me in your message is the Keyword "Ethernet"
My set up is currenlty very different from yours -- thus I can not
help you with any advice based on my own experiences.

PB --> EtherNet switch --> EtherNet/LocalTalk bridge --> LaserWriter
Select 360 printer.

And it seems to me that *all* Ethernet ports and devices needed some
(auto)adjustements, because I just turned on and off all devices and
checked in and out the set up at Network panel.

But I intend to buy cable modem and SMC Wireless Broadband Router
SMC7004VWB together with the AirPort card -- and I really hope that I
will *not* share the experiences with you. Perhaps you need a better,
128-bit encryption or there are walls made with different materials,
which for this reason have different absorption of the signal,
perhaps you should test the strength of the signal or the position of
the transmitting and receiving antennas -- to avoid the multipath of
signal (presumably better known from the FM-radio).

BTW
For every system update I use only the Combo version as a standalone
installer -- if you can download it, you should use it.

HTH

Respectfully,

--
Igor
-----
kramberger@...

Norton Utils 7.03 for OSX (latest-they still on this version)
On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 10:27  AM, Igor Kramberger wrote:
>
> Hm, I have Symantec's SystemWorks 2.0, which are supposed to work
> with Mac OS X, but they do only in a limited way.
>
> Which version of Norton [Utilities? Disk Doctor?] are you using?

I am waiting too for TechTool Pro version 4

> I did not buy until now X disk utility [from MicroMat?]. I am waiting
> for TechTool Pro version 4 -- last time I checked it was still only
> announced (I have used versions 2 and 3).
Your setup is indeed different (for now and when you buy) because you
intend to buy a wireless-cable router and cable modem.
Needless to say, since mine is 1 year old or less it is an 802.11(B)
not (G). Mine is a belkin wireless/ethernet 3-port with double
antennae, very good signal, so it is not in the signal where the
problem is.But I don't have a cable modem, I have a adsl modem a Zyxel
model 645..that's indeed difft..where cable is more like Enet. I use
Earthlink adsl through local Bellsouth (florida). In some ways, cable
is more solid, in some ways adsl is, I can not tell you, but If i had a
choice I d go with cable, that way I am not depending on BellSouth
Service calls which stink, specially since I am not dependent on my own
phone line but I am going through my next door neighbor's phoneline.
the house is a duplex, and they don't need the adsl themselves, but
they are not paying for BS service insurance!. My area doesnt offer
cable.

> My set up is currenlty very different from yours -- thus I can not
> help you with any advice based on my own experiences.
>
> PB --> EtherNet switch --> EtherNet/LocalTalk bridge --> LaserWriter
> Select 360 printer.
>
> And it seems to me that *all* Ethernet ports and devices needed some
> (auto)adjustements, because I just turned on and off all devices and
> checked in and out the set up at Network panel.
>
> But I intend to buy cable modem and SMC Wireless Broadband Router
> SMC7004VWB together with the AirPort card

The piece of advice to reject single upgrades from the apple software
update site is sound.
I will start following it from now on..specially in lieu of the fact
that PANTHER is coming up real soon.
..which spells...t r o u b l e in most networking
configurations...remember...all that new "rendesvous" stuff is
painfully touching all networking drivers.

Which webmin RPM can be used for YDL 3.0?
DOES anyone have a link they can safely offer?
if it is not good when your laptop computer's only hostname is
localhost, then let me know and how can i fix it, manually, the python
based gui to do networking configuration is broke! figures! some weird
message about compiled with version 14 and this is version 12..blah
blah..makes no sense.

I used webmin .093 on 10.1.5 before, and it was good for monitoring a
few things I needed to do, except of course, you couldn't manage users
with it...and I think my machine then was still hostname localhost, as
far as "darwin" was concerned...it did have a share name, but that's
something difft altogether..so I could locally run the separate webmin
httpd in port 10000..when I installed 10.2.2 webmin stopped working.
now this same laptop is with YDL.

I've noticed that starting httpd in YDL 3 with no dns hostname (I can't
have one, I dont use a DMZ dns server, I connect to a router doing NAT
and from there to a adsl modem and that's it) the apache httpd will not
go....the service will not start... but in os x, apache didnt care...
heck I don't know why!...the tweakings of unix drive me mad...os x just
makes it simpler, not necessarily better...

so I started figuring that IF i can get webmin to work in my laptop
with YDL now, desktop configuration installation, I can configure
NETWORKING as far as "rigging" a name that resolves without a dns
server....(In osx that was possible via the duplicating the localhost
entry and renaming it to any non-fully qualified name, in the NetInfo
Manager application (utilities menu) and that was it, the machine
"resolved" itself! but in raw linux i don't know how to do that)

Sergio

Hello,
I found that some of you are interested in additional keyboards for MAC OS X.
Here
are some (of course, beside the ones in www.redlers.com/dowsnloads):
Czech: http://www.mujmac.cz/download/CzechKeyboards.sit
Cyrillic: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15033,
redirecting to www.mikeosx.com
http://www.versiontracker.com/redir.fcgi/lid=177543/CyrillixLite.sit

Generally, Misha Kuleshov's site (in Russian) is very good for all those who
wish to
Russify their MAC OS X.

Hope this is useful,

sorin

This is probably a stupid question, but is there a way to apply a new page style
to
every page in a document or to a selection of pages in the document? I have a
new
file imported from Word and now every page is in the "Default" page style.  I'd
like to
change them all to a "Ready to Print" style, but the only way I can see to do is
is to
select each page one at a time and apply the new style to it.

Surely there must be a better way?

Hi Ken,

The answer is simple:
A. Go to page 1. Select the style "Ready to Print."
B. Open the page palette and press the button "Apply to End."

Ori

On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 01:39 Asia/Jerusalem, Ken L wrote:

> This is probably a stupid question, but is there a way to apply a new
> page style to
> every page in a document or to a selection of pages in the document? I
> have a new
> file imported from Word and now every page is in the "Default" page
> style.  I'd like to
> change them all to a "Ready to Print" style, but the only way I can
> see to do is is to
> select each page one at a time and apply the new style to it.
>
> Surely there must be a better way?
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important
> Questions.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/MqWylB/TM
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ~->
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Heh, it really was a stupid question.  Thanks.

Two suggestions:

1. I think that this should be made more clear in the help files.  Right now the
"Apply
to End" button is only mentioned in connection with renumbering pages.  It would
be
nice if you can add a section to the help file called "To Apply a Page Style to
the Whole
Document" that mentioned the "Apply to End" button so that people new to Mellel
scanning through the help can find it easily.

(I know, I should have experimented more, but I associated Apply to End with
renumbering only partly because of the way the help file presented it)

2. It would still be nice to have the ability to select a section of the
document (e.g.,
pages 2-22) and apply a page style to them.  Especially useful if the document
has
many sections, and if you were to change the style to be applied for one
section, you
wouldn't have to apply it to the end and then go back and re-apply the styles
for the
later sections one after the other)

--- In redlex@yahoogroups.com, RedleX Mail <redlex@r...> wrote:
> Hi Ken,
>
> The answer is simple:
> A. Go to page 1. Select the style "Ready to Print."
> B. Open the page palette and press the button "Apply to End."
>
> Ori
>
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 01:39 Asia/Jerusalem, Ken L wrote:
>
> > This is probably a stupid question, but is there a way to apply a new
> > page style to
> > every page in a document or to a selection of pages in the document? I
> > have a new
> > file imported from Word and now every page is in the "Default" page
> > style.  I'd like to
> > change them all to a "Ready to Print" style, but the only way I can
> > see to do is is to
> > select each page one at a time and apply the new style to it.
> >
> > Surely there must be a better way?
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important
> > Questions.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/MqWylB/TM
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

>Two suggestions:

Some more suggestions for the page style handling:

3) At present the page styles are linked to the physical page. That's all right
for short texts, but a real hassle for longer documents (books), because it
needs a lot of hand work after very  re-editing. It would be nice if the page
styles could be hooked to a certain paragraph (perhaps better paragraph style as
well?)

4) I would like the page margins to be part of the page style.

What do others think?

Johannes
--
Mellel - The word processor for the rest of us

Johannes Hoffmann
Germany

Johannes Hoffmann wrote:
> ... page styles ... linked to the physical page ... (need) a lot of
> hand work after ... (editing). It would be nice if the page styles
> could be hooked to a certain paragraph

Sections like in Word? Hey, you got my vote. :-)

Page styles seem to make more sense for layout apps where you make the copy fit
the page, not the other way round.

Of course then we'd also need a "first page different" option to accomodate
stationary.
--
Lambert

Top posting.
> What's the most annoying thing on usenet?

Hi Ken,

You should not have experimented more... This should have been clear in
the first place -- in other words, the help needs some fixing.

As for selecting a section of the document and applying a page style --
this is planned for a future released (it's sorely missed by many).

Ori
On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 07:26 Asia/Jerusalem, Ken L wrote:

> Heh, it really was a stupid question.  Thanks.
>
> Two suggestions:
>
> 1. I think that this should be made more clear in the help files.
> Right now the "Apply
> to End" button is only mentioned in connection with renumbering pages.
>  It would be
> nice if you can add a section to the help file called "To Apply a Page
> Style to the Whole
> Document" that mentioned the "Apply to End" button so that people new
> to Mellel
> scanning through the help can find it easily.
>
> (I know, I should have experimented more, but I associated Apply to
> End with
> renumbering only partly because of the way the help file presented it)
>
> 2. It would still be nice to have the ability to select a section of
> the document (e.g.,
> pages 2-22) and apply a page style to them.  Especially useful if the
> document has
> many sections, and if you were to change the style to be applied for
> one section, you
> wouldn't have to apply it to the end and then go back and re-apply the
> styles for the
> later sections one after the other)
>
> --- In redlex@yahoogroups.com, RedleX Mail <redlex@r...> wrote:
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> The answer is simple:
>> A. Go to page 1. Select the style "Ready to Print."
>> B. Open the page palette and press the button "Apply to End."
>>
>> Ori
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 01:39 Asia/Jerusalem, Ken L wrote:
>>
>>> This is probably a stupid question, but is there a way to apply a new
>>> page style to
>>> every page in a document or to a selection of pages in the document?
>>> I
>>> have a new
>>> file imported from Word and now every page is in the "Default" page
>>> style.  I'd like to
>>> change them all to a "Ready to Print" style, but the only way I can
>>> see to do is is to
>>> select each page one at a time and apply the new style to it.
>>>
>>> Surely there must be a better way?
>>>
>>>
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Hello Johannes,

Linking the page style to a paragraph or any specific point in the text
is somewhat problematic, but having page margins as part of the page
style is certainly a sensible change... Once we allow for frames of
different width and different page sizes (in other words: columns).

Ori

On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 09:38 Asia/Jerusalem, Johannes Hoffmann
wrote:

>> Two suggestions:
>
> Some more suggestions for the page style handling:
>
> 3) At present the page styles are linked to the physical page. That's
> all right for short texts, but a real hassle for longer documents
> (books), because it needs a lot of hand work after very  re-editing.
> It would be nice if the page styles could be hooked to a certain
> paragraph (perhaps better paragraph style as well?)
>
> 4) I would like the page margins to be part of the page style.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Johannes
> --
> Mellel - The word processor for the rest of us
>
> Johannes Hoffmann
> Germany
>
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Hi, Eyal --

I have another such Hebrew siddur text to clean up, but this time I'm
having trouble getting your "trick" below to work, as far as cleaning
up the shin/sin problem. Can you walk me through it more specifically?
The symptom here is that a lot of things that should be shin's in the
original file display as sin's in Mellel. And some of those are
followed by the blank box.

Thanks!

Steve

On Sunday, May 11, 2003, at 08:39  AM, Eyal Redler wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
>
> > Opening a document exported as RTF Hebrew initially produces perfect
> > looking, styled English text (I'm amazed at how well the original
> > layout and typefaces are preserved, actually) but nothing but empty
> > rectangles in the Hebrew. However... (drum roll!) selecting those
> > blocks of rectangles and applying one of my predefined styles with a
> > secondary Hebrew type face produces nearly perfect Hebrew text,
> except
> > for a few scattered blank rectangles here and there. With very little
> > cleaning up the file should look great.
>
> Steve, if you got the beta, use "Replace Styles" to move the rectangle
> text to a hebrew style.
> The leftover rectangle are, most likely shin and sin dots. These
> character are the main difference between windows hebrew and mac
> hebrew. So if these rectangles appear right after a shin, this is most
> probably the case.
> To clean it up, simply do a "replace all" for the shin+shin/sin dot
> pairs and replace them with the composed character (produced by typing
> shift+A or option+a)
>
>
>
>
> Eyal Redler
> ========================================================
> RedleX
> Makers of Mellel
> Support: support@...
> http://www.redlers.com
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
"You are not required to complete the work, but neither are you free to
abstain from it."
	 -- Rabbi Tarfon, Pirkei Avot

Hi Steve,

> I have another such Hebrew siddur text to clean up, but this time I'm
> having trouble getting your "trick" below to work, as far as cleaning
> up the shin/sin problem. Can you walk me through it more specifically?
> The symptom here is that a lot of things that should be shin's in the
> original file display as sin's in Mellel. And some of those are
> followed by the blank box.

Assuming these *are* shin+shin dot/sin dot you should be able to do it
like that:
First, enable the character palette and show it (if not enabled yet)
1. Open "System Preferences"
2. Choose "International" and the click on the "Input Menu" tab.
3. In the list search for "Character Palette" and check the checkbox
next to it.
Now you can select the character palette from the input menu.
To see the hebrew section in Character Palette do this
1. Select "all" in the view popup menu
2. Click on the "Unicode Blocks" tab and scroll the list till you find
hebrew
You might also want to make the bottom part of the system Character
Palette by clicking the downward point triangle at the bottom so you
can see the names of the characters (otherwise you will find it hard to
locate the shin and sin dot since there many point like diacritics)
Now:
1. Open the find panel
2. Open the System Character Palette
3. In the "Find" field insert a shin and then a shin dot (there's no
way to type it using the keyboard, that's why you need the character
palette)
4. In the replace field insert a shin+dot (shift+shin)
5. Click "replace all"

Hope this helps,







Eyal Redler
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
"If Uri Geller bends spoons with divine powers, then he's doing it the
hard way."
--James Randi

Reading in Eyal's long explanation how to print Shin
or Sin, we come across the following note:

>Assuming these *are* shin+shin dot/sin dot
>
>3.   (there's no way to type it using the keyboard,...)
>

Does it mean you cannot type Shin or Sin normally?

Should this be tolerated? after it could be done so
easily in all former Mac OS versions?

If so, should one upgrade to system X at all?

Or maybe I have misunderstood it altogether?

                         Yours,        Gideon Goldenberg

Hello Gideon,

This means that you can type Shin or Sin very easily, but you cannot
type the Sin or Shin Dot separately.

Ori

On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 10:04 Asia/Jerusalem, Gideon Goldenberg
wrote:

>
> Reading in Eyal's long explanation how to print Shin
> or Sin, we come across the following note:
>
>> Assuming these *are* shin+shin dot/sin dot
>>
>> 3.   (there's no way to type it using the keyboard,...)
>>
>
> Does it mean you cannot type Shin or Sin normally?
>
> Should this be tolerated? after it could be done so
> easily in all former Mac OS versions?
>
> If so, should one upgrade to system X at all?
>
> Or maybe I have misunderstood it altogether?
>
>                         Yours,        Gideon Goldenberg
>
>
>
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hello,
Of course, the suggested features are welcome; and also Ori's counteraguments
are
logical. I have just had a problem with changing settings of footnotes, and had
the
impression I lost the document, and have to begin from scratch. In fact, I
forgot to
save the new footnote style. In my mind, there should be, not as a very urgent
improvement, a kind of unified document styling, in other words to put together
all
the styles in one drawer, and save them as a set of styles. I begin to learn
Mellel more
and more, and of course learn from my mistakes (or/and ignorance). On the other
hand, there is a need for simplifying style management as they are getting more
and
more complex and sophisticated.
Sorin
--- In redlex@yahoogroups.com, RedleX Mail <redlex@r...> wrote:
> Hello Johannes,
>
> Linking the page style to a paragraph or any specific point in the text
> is somewhat problematic, but having page margins as part of the page
> style is certainly a sensible change... Once we allow for frames of
> different width and different page sizes (in other words: columns).
>
> Ori
>
> On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 09:38 Asia/Jerusalem, Johannes Hoffmann
> wrote:
>
> >> Two suggestions:
> >
> > Some more suggestions for the page style handling:
> >
> > 3) At present the page styles are linked to the physical page. That's
> > all right for short texts, but a real hassle for longer documents
> > (books), because it needs a lot of hand work after very  re-editing.
> > It would be nice if the page styles could be hooked to a certain
> > paragraph (perhaps better paragraph style as well?)
> >
> > 4) I would like the page margins to be part of the page style.
> >
> > What do others think?
> >
> > Johannes
> > --
> > Mellel - The word processor for the rest of us
> >
> > Johannes Hoffmann
> > Germany
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important
> > Questions.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/MqWylB/TM
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > redlex-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Ori I totally agree with Sorin, make it simple for newbies, so they
can't make mistakes like he is just acknowledging he makes..
I do them too...
imagine a newbie...he's lost!
Mellel should have 2 roads, the limited version for rookies, and the
unlimited version, your way.
Sergio
On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 08:28  AM, Romanian Association of Slavic
Studies wrote:

> On the other
> hand, there is a need for simplifying style management as they are
> getting more and
> more complex and sophisticated.

Hi Gideon,


> Reading in Eyal's long explanation how to print Shin
> or Sin, we come across the following note:
>
>> Assuming these *are* shin+shin dot/sin dot
>>
>> 3.   (there's no way to type it using the keyboard,...)
>>
>
> Does it mean you cannot type Shin or Sin normally?

You can't type the dot alone, the shin+dot and sin + dot are certainly
typeable... (Use shift+shin or option+shin).

This is one more example of the strange things happening in the Unicode
standard...
For the people who are not familiar with this: the Hebrew letter "Shin"
can come in three forms: Alone, with a dot on the upper right corner
and with a dot on the upper left Corner. The dots can appear only after
that letter and will never appear by themselves...
For some strange reason the people at the Unicode Consortium decided
that these points should be defined like a separate entity.
This is as logical as defining 'i' as having no dot and defining the
dot as a separate entity...


Eyal Redler
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------
"If Uri Geller bends spoons with divine powers, then he's doing it the
hard way."
--James Randi

You mean a sort of Mellel and Mellel Express? :-)

Ori
On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 17:44 Asia/Jerusalem, Sergio
Valdes-Flores wrote:

> Ori I totally agree with Sorin, make it simple for newbies, so they
> can't make mistakes like he is just acknowledging he makes..
> I do them too...
> imagine a newbie...he's lost!
> Mellel should have 2 roads, the limited version for rookies, and the
> unlimited version, your way.
> Sergio
> On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 08:28  AM, Romanian Association of
> Slavic Studies wrote:
>
>> On the other
>> hand, there is a need for simplifying style management as they are
>> getting more and
>> more complex and sophisticated.

You got it!
:-)
Sergio

On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 11:14  AM, RedleX Mail wrote:

> You mean a sort of Mellel and Mellel Express? :-)
>
> Ori
> On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 17:44 Asia/Jerusalem, Sergio
> Valdes-Flores wrote:
>
>> Ori I totally agree with Sorin, make it simple for newbies, so they
>> can't make mistakes like he is just acknowledging he makes..
>> I do them too...
>> imagine a newbie...he's lost!
>> Mellel should have 2 roads, the limited version for rookies, and the
>> unlimited version, your way.
>> Sergio
>> On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 08:28  AM, Romanian Association of
>> Slavic Studies wrote:
>>
>>> On the other
>>> hand, there is a need for simplifying style management as they are
>>> getting more and
>>> more complex and sophisticated.

Hello,
I do not know whether you are interested, but I have just finished my
first book in Mellel. It is not mine, it is me who gave the final
form. Despite some clumsy approaches, it is ready. I also generated a
PDF, which looks OK. I have to just add the CONTENTS, and is ready.
A second book is almost ready.
My point is that Mellel, though without (yet) long document
management, is just fine for books too.
Sorin

On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 18:14 Asia/Jerusalem, RedleX Mail wrote:

> You mean a sort of Mellel and Mellel Express? :-)
>
> Ori
> On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 17:44 Asia/Jerusalem, Sergio
> Valdes-Flores wrote:
>
>> Ori I totally agree with Sorin, make it simple for newbies, so they
>> can't make mistakes like he is just acknowledging he makes..
>> I do them too...
>> imagine a newbie...he's lost!
>> Mellel should have 2 roads, the limited version for rookies, and the
>> unlimited version, your way.
>> Sergio
>> On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 08:28  AM, Romanian Association of
>> Slavic Studies wrote:
>>
>>> On the other
>>> hand, there is a need for simplifying style management as they are
>>> getting more and
>>> more complex and sophisticated.
>


I do not think, that you need two roads. You just need a better help
file, and most important, step-by step tutorials.

Chaim

specially, the last part you said. (e-TUTOR)
Sergio
hmm, reminds me of how I learned wp 4.2 for DOS...it was that way...a
tutor...not the help files..
and I was seriously good at it after that.

On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 12:08  PM, Chaim Forgacs wrote:

> You just need a better help
> file, and most important, step-by step tutorials.

The following redlex poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: With Mellel 1.6.x coming up real soon, and the
additional languages it brings, what is your
first choice for what is required to do in order
to avoid having to have both Windows and OS
X on your desk when doing International
languages text processing...

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Having a 100% MS Word compatible RTF import/export engine first, 26 votes,
81.25%
- Having all of the world's languages fonts tested and finished first, 6 votes,
18.75%



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