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Reply | Forward Message #1281 of 14078 |
Re: [rest-discuss] REST Tutorial

First the nits:

* a more "RESTful" version of the xlink:href would expose the part as a
part of the path and not merely as a query expression. In other words,
I'd suggest replacing:

xlink:href="http://www.parts-depot.com/part?id=00345

with

xlink:href="http://www.parts-depot.com/part/00345

* Soap encoding tends to favor usage of the element content over
attributes. I'd suggest changing your example for getPartsListResponse
from:

<part id="00345">

to

<part-id>00345</part-id>

= = = =

The next point is a bit more subtle. I've tried to express it in a number
of different forums in a number of different ways, each time with little
success. I'm not going to try a bit of humor to see if it helps.

It is a bit ironic that a set of architectural practices under the title of
"Representation State Transfer" defines virtually nothing about the way in
which state is to be represented, and instead focuses on how Objects (or
more precisely, resources) are to be accessed.

Similarly, I find it a bit ironic that a protocol originally created as an
acronym for Simple Object Access Protocol specifies nothing about how an
object is to be accessed, but instead focuses pretty much exclusively on
how messages are to be represented. For more details on this subject, see
http://radio.weblogs.com/0101679/stories/2002/01/25/whatObjectDoesSoapAccess.htm\
l


It is very easy to come up with an example where one schema includes links
and other does not, associate the first with a URL and place the second in
an envelope and then portray this as a fundamental difference between SOAP
and REST. The truth is that HTTP nor SOAP require nor preclude "proper"
links.

Similarly, one can come up with an example where a resource is identified
based on query parameters in a URL and another in which a resource is
identified inside the body and portray this too as a fundamental
difference. This too is false as there are a number of SOAP toolkits which
will happily dispatch requests based on the URL. Furthermore, REST is an
architectural style - it does not dictate syntax. See
http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/2001-August/002941.html for more on this
topic, including the views of Roy Fielding on XML itself.

I will go a step further and indicate that it is possible to architect a
system in accordance to the principles of REST and then implement it using
SOAP. In other words, these two are compatible. I would argue that the
deeper issue is that SOAP does little to require such an architectural
style, in fact, most of the examples to date seem to espouse a different
architectural style. I discuss this further in
http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/1351#Analogy

= = = =

The reason I joined this mailing list, and have persisted, is that it is
my hope that some day a paper can be jointly authored which shows both SOAP
and REST in a positive light, shows the strengths of both, and how they can
be used in concert.

- Sam Ruby




Sun May 19, 2002 6:12 pm

sa3ruby
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Message #1281 of 14078 |
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I have posted my first release of a tutorial on REST[1]. I would appreciate it if you would notify me if you notice any mistakes, or have suggestions on...
Roger L. Costello
costello@...
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May 18, 2002
10:05 pm

Looks like an excellent summary! I'll just go through some nits. Here are some points to consider. Slide 5: "http://www.parts-depot.com/parts-list?flavor=xml" ...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
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May 19, 2002
5:14 am

Thanks a lot Paul! I have incorporated all of your suggestions, as well as added new material. I think that my Parts Depot example is now in line with your ...
Roger L. Costello
costello@...
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May 19, 2002
4:54 pm

... I'm very interested in reading your tutorial. Unfortunately I haven't worked out how to view ppt files in Linux yet, nor do I think I should have to. So...
xemplify
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May 19, 2002
5:09 pm

... I agree you shouldn't have to, but if you want to, StarOffice/OpenOffice and KPresenter have PowerPoint import filters. I haven't used them a whole lot,...
Matt Gushee
mcgushee
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May 19, 2002
5:50 pm

Hi ... I didn't have any luck with it either using OpenOffice (got the lines and boxes but no text). Generally I find that the free office viewers from MS...
Chris Croome
chriscroome
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May 19, 2002
6:43 pm

... Or Google could expose a REST interface to their PPT->HTML rendering engine. ;) Paul Prescod...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
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May 19, 2002
5:47 pm

First the nits: * a more "RESTful" version of the xlink:href would expose the part as a part of the path and not merely as a query expression. In other...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 19, 2002
6:36 pm

... Interesting point. ... True. But HTTP defines a way to transform a URI into bit stream (GET $URI). SOAP does not. ... That is certainly true for URLs known...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
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May 19, 2002
7:29 pm

... Whoah! Are the lines of communication cracking open, if even a tiny bit? ;-) ... Would Axis count? When Axis is deployed as a servlet, one can map a ...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 20, 2002
12:42 am

... So far, so good, but ... ... Where do you get that idea? I don't claim to be a REST wizard, but I've been following this discussion for 3 months, and I...
Matt Gushee
mcgushee
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May 20, 2002
2:04 am

... ASP.NET webforms for one always use POST regardless of whether its apropriate. Cheers Simon...
simonfell99
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May 20, 2002
3:30 am

... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Apr/0181.html This was written by the same Roy T. Fielding that wrote: ...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 20, 2002
2:14 am

... Is this simple or rocket science? Maybe you could write a tutorial one day. ... WSDL is not required in a theoretical sense but it is in a practical sense....
Paul Prescod
papresco
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May 20, 2002
2:14 am

... My current feeling is that whatever I write - even if it directly addresses a question or concern you have expressed - you will pick it apart and call it...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 20, 2002
2:53 am

... From: "Sam Ruby" <rubys@...> ... of ... I don't think that many architectures define representations. You know - 'architecture' 'design'...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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May 20, 2002
3:23 am

... Agreed. I am actually trying to tease out the distinction between REST and HTTP. I see people outraged when SOAP uses POST when it could have equally...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 20, 2002
4:20 am

... From: "Sam Ruby" <rubys@...> ... I would like to see these two in counterpoint also. Comparisons of other systems to the facets of REST can help...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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May 20, 2002
5:00 am

... Care to comment on frames and cookies? - Sam Ruby...
Sam Ruby
sa3ruby
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May 20, 2002
6:26 am

... I was only trying to get a more accurate sense of whether it was feasible to use SOAP in a URI-sensible manner in the real world. Everything I've heard so...
Paul Prescod
papresco
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May 20, 2002
7:21 am

... From: "Sam Ruby" <rubys@...> ... Frames are an issue with a particular representation language (html) and the client(s) built to handle it. I don't...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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May 20, 2002
4:52 pm
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