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Another "is this ReSTful" question   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #3232 of 14031 |
opaqueness of URI

> So, which method is more ReSTful? To me the first one is ReSTful, the
> second one isn't, but Mike obviously has been thinking about ReST
> longer
> than I have... so I accept that I'm probably missing something.

Maybe I am missing something, but since several people have said that
REST implies opaqueness in the URI, my guess is that a legend
has somehow begun and I need to put it to rest (no pun intended).

REST does not require that a URI be opaque. The only place where
the word opaque occurs in my dissertation is where I complain about the
opaqueness of cookies. In fact, RESTful applications are, at all times,
encouraged to use human-meaningful, hierarchical identifiers in order
to maximize the serendipitous use of the information beyond what is
anticipated by the original application.

It is still necessary for the server to construct the URIs and for the
client to initially discover those URIs via hypertext responses, either
in the normal course of creating the resource or by some form of query
that results in a hypertext list. However, once that list is provided,
people can and do anticipate the names of other/future resources in
that name space, just as I would often directly type URIs into the
location bar rather than go through some poorly designed interactive
multi-page interface for stock charts.

Sites that rely on interstitial advertising (like the annoying yahoo
groups interface) do not like it when user's avoid the indirect path,
but the social network-effect of the Web is enhanced by meaningful URI.
In general, sites that give meaningful URI are used more often.

It also helps prevent the "lost in hyperspace" syndrome, but that's
a separate issue.


Cheers,

Roy T. Fielding, co-founder, The Apache Software Foundation
(fielding@...) <http://www.apache.org/>

Chief Scientist, Day Software
2 Corporate Plaza, Suite 150
Newport Beach, CA 92660-7929 fax:+1.949.644.5064
(roy.fielding@...) <http://www.day.com/>




Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:37 am

roy_fielding
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Message #3232 of 14031 |
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Hi -- I'm building a simple order management web service which allows an order app in the field to submit orders, allows factory-side apps to access orders by...
Gary Shea
ishmael000
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Jan 9, 2003
3:09 pm

... From: "Gary Shea" <shea@...> This looks good overall. ... I'm not clear on what the begin/end range means - could you explain? Is an individual...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Jan 9, 2003
5:47 pm

Hi -- Thanks for taking the time to comment. See inline... ... Sorry, I could have been more clear. An individual order is addressable. The idea was to find...
Gary Shea
ishmael000
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Jan 9, 2003
6:34 pm

one clarification below... ... From: "Gary Shea" <shea@...> ... Your choice to use one URI over another doesn't indicate whether the URI is opaque or...
Seairth Jacobs
seairthjacobs
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Jan 9, 2003
6:57 pm

... I completely agree with your points about opacity of URIs. I don't think they are relevant to this case though. The question is, how do I get access to a...
Gary Shea
ishmael000
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Jan 10, 2003
6:19 pm

... Maybe I am missing something, but since several people have said that REST implies opaqueness in the URI, my guess is that a legend has somehow begun and I...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Jan 11, 2003
12:38 am

... AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! ... MOMENT OF TOTAL, VIOLENT, ZEN CLARITY!!! AGAIN!!! THANK YOU, ROY! ... jb...
Jeff Bone
jbone@...
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Jan 11, 2003
4:16 am

Yah, I thought long and hard about this recently due to Jon Udell's ISBN-in-the-URI javascript hack. There's no denying the value in that. I figure it's one...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Jan 11, 2003
4:31 am

Roy T. Fielding wrote, ... Interesting. I think you're saying that it's legitimate from a REST POV for a client to infer a URI pattern or template, eg. ...
Miles Sabin
milessabin
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Jan 11, 2003
8:07 am

... Reasonable expectation? Hmmm. All links are wishful thinking. Guessed links are just somewhat more wishful than others. ... Er, don't think too hard...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Jan 11, 2003
10:39 am

Roy T. Fielding wrote, ... Well, yeah. I meant "reasonable" in the sense of "not completely ridiculous". It's surely more reasonable for a client to expect...
Miles Sabin
milessabin
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Jan 11, 2003
11:38 am

... FTR, it's an axiom of web architecture according to TBL's notes, ie a self-evident truth. ... Jon Udell [1] has come up with extracting ISBNs from amazon...
Bill de hÓra
bdehora
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Jan 11, 2003
2:07 pm

From: "Bill de hÓra" <dehora@...> ... The problem here is not that Jon extracted information out of the URI. The problem is that Jon is relying on...
Seairth Jacobs
seairthjacobs
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Jan 11, 2003
4:01 pm

... Yep. Low cohesion, high coupling. But it works for now. Bill de hÓra...
Bill de hÓra
bdehora
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Jan 11, 2003
4:45 pm

Out of curiousity, are there any spec (or what have you) out that that adress this? Specifically, I am talking about the ability for a URI authority to...
Seairth Jacobs
seairthjacobs
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Jan 11, 2003
5:22 pm

... that ... rules of ... Personally, I think is an absolutely terrible idea and leads to interfaces just as brittle as an RPC system. The best way to ...
inthedarkplace <inthe...
inthedarkplace
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Jan 11, 2003
7:05 pm

... I think you have to be clear about the context before talking about opaqueness. Are you 'constructing' a URI or 'deconstructing' a URI? If you are...
Joe Gregorio
JCGregorio
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Jan 12, 2003
3:00 am

... I don't think there is, but there should be; it would be useful. The biggest problem would be trying to avoid inventing URI Markup Language instead of a...
Bill de hÓra
bdehora
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Jan 11, 2003
5:32 pm

... From: "Seairth Jacobs" <seairth@...> ... of ... Like this: -- document from http://library.example.foo/lookupService/ -- <form method='GET'...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Jan 11, 2003
7:14 pm

... From: "Mark Baker" <distobj@...> ... There are two aspects to what Jon Udell did that make it work - parsing a URI and having two services share a...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Jan 11, 2003
7:27 pm

... From: "Gary Shea" <shea@...> ... Not weird. Sounds very hypertextual. I'm not sold on that being the best approach though. My reasoning is that...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Jan 9, 2003
7:15 pm

... From: "Gary Shea" <shea@...> ... Not actually completely opaque. The client needs to know the format and structure of two documents. Either...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Jan 10, 2003
6:47 pm

From: "Gary Shea" <shea@...> ... Some discussions I have seen in the past (sorry, don't remember where though probably on this list) had argued that...
Seairth Jacobs
seairthjacobs
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Jan 10, 2003
9:05 pm

Seairth, ... though ... client ... right" ... I think it might have been spawned by Paul Prescod's "First Principles" paper. It "feels right" because if the...
Walden Mathews
waldenmathews
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Jan 10, 2003
9:52 pm
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