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REST clarifications...   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #4725 of 14031 |
Re: [rest-discuss] REST clarifications...

On Dec 28, 2004, at 3:18 PM, Josh Sled wrote:
> It's hard to say generally, but I think you're seeing two different
> things:
>
> * an inherent similarity in the two methods, including a bit of a
> semantic overlap with respect to PUT's specification of ability to
> create things.
>
> * the fact that there's two different levels of REST:
> GET+POST-does-everything-else vs. GET/PUT/POST/DELETE. Not
> differentiating the two can lead to confusion about which "POST"
> is being used/described. [1]
...
> [1]:
> http://asynchronous.org/blog/archives/2004/08/25/levels_of_rest.html

Josh, while that may be your theory (and you are welcome to it), the
notion that there are two levels of REST is completely false. There
are different extents to which a REST-based application will use HTTP
methods, but that doesn't mean the architectural style has two different
sets of constraints. The application is either obeying the REST
constraints or it is not, and POST in particular has the meaning
"process this" regardless of how REST-compliant it may be because
REST does not define the meaning of POST (HTTP does).

....Roy




Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:38 am

roy_fielding
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Message #4725 of 14031 |
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Hi Group, I'm very new to REST but am interested in moving my current development effort into the model. That said, I must confess I need some clarification...
rlution
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Dec 28, 2004
3:20 pm

... POST is more general than create, and in fact even PUT can create a resource. "create", AFAICT, emerged from the desire for some to fit the new "uniform...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Dec 28, 2004
6:40 pm

... It's hard to say generally, but I think you're seeing two different things: * an inherent similarity in the two methods, including a bit of a semantic...
Josh Sled
joshsled
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Dec 28, 2004
11:16 pm

... Josh, while that may be your theory (and you are welcome to it), the notion that there are two levels of REST is completely false. There are different...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Dec 29, 2004
2:38 am

... No, you're right; I've made the mistake of conflating REST with HTTP. ... As per HTTP, POST has two meanings ... "submit data-block for data-handling" as...
Josh Sled
joshsled
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Dec 29, 2004
2:46 pm

... Yes, it was certainly a mistake when the NCSA team introduced HTML forms processing via POST (which at the time meant the same as NNTP's post) without...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Dec 30, 2004
2:29 am

... I added the table to this wiki page, but no summary or descriptive text. I also added DELETE, and another section for WebDAV methods. ...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Dec 30, 2004
5:56 am

... OK, I have filled out what I think the properties of the WebDAV methods are (feedback appreciated): method safe idempotent semantics resource...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Dec 30, 2004
3:49 pm

... PROPFIND, PROPPATCH, LOCK, and UNLOCK do not have identifiable resources (they all operate by way of a third party). Is PROPPATCH always idempotent? COPY...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Dec 30, 2004
10:19 pm

... Could you please expand on what you mean by "they operate by way of a third party" (is this about the Depth request header?)? For instance, the results for...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Dec 30, 2004
11:03 pm

... That wasn't what I meant, though depth is certainly another can of worms. I guess that is another reason why PROPFIND is not cacheable. I meant that the...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Dec 31, 2004
6:29 am

... Correct. RFC2518 already specifies PROPFIND as non-cacheable. ... Ah! Now that depends on whether one considers those properties as different resources (as...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Dec 31, 2004
11:15 am

Julian Reschke wrote: [...] ... Does anyone happen to know why the functionality of PROPFIND has not simply been enabled by the definition of a set of...
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971
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Jan 1, 2005
7:20 pm

... Extensibility of header names? Internationalization considerations? Namespace operations? Updates of properties? Anyway, this: "WebDAV and the Birth of...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 1, 2005
9:06 pm

... Yeah, Yaron's twisted little view of history. It would be more accurate to say that some people insisted HTTP could not carry internationalized data in ...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Jan 1, 2005
10:32 pm

... OK, another interesting read is in Jim Whitehead's and Yaron Goland's "The WebDAV Property Design" "<http://www.cs.ucsc.edu/~ejw/papers/spe-whitehead.pdf>....
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2005
1:34 pm

Thanks for the clarification. I have two questions. ... Do you agree that it would be better if human user agents sending HTML forms just put the contents of...
Vincent D Murphy
johnfoobar1
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Dec 30, 2004
9:36 am

... [deletia] ... I continue to be confused, though. I understand the importance of orthogonality of operations [generally], but there's a tension here ...
Josh Sled
joshsled
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Dec 30, 2004
3:33 pm

I agree with your general point Roy, but just had a comment on something you said ... ... I was under the impression that the degree of visibility in both...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Dec 30, 2004
11:50 pm

... They are effectively the same, yes, but visibility is a continuous function. Just knowing something about the intent of the client may be better than...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Dec 31, 2004
7:43 am

... I haven't found a reason to use PUT rather than POST for creating a new resource. I'm still waiting for the killer example where it makes sense. Using PUT...
Vincent D Murphy
johnfoobar1
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Dec 29, 2004
12:12 am

... When using PUT, the client application knows and identifies the resource that is to be replaced by the content in the request. Whether the server creates...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Dec 29, 2004
4:18 am

... When using PUT, the client is in control of the URI space. So take any PUT enabled file-system based Web server (like Apache) and it becomes a 'dumb ...
S. Mike Dierken
mdierken
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Dec 29, 2004
4:26 am

Josh, ... POST can't have two meanings per the spec., because the spec does not define a way to discriminate two meanings for POST. Or do I fail to get your...
Walden Mathews
waldenmathews
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Dec 29, 2004
4:21 pm

... Every time I read RFC 2616 section 9.5, I come away with two meanings: * process data * "subordinate [...] in the same way that a file is subordinate to a...
Josh Sled
joshsled
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Dec 30, 2004
2:25 pm
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