Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
rest-discuss · REST Discussion Mailing List

Group Information

  • Members: 1382
  • Category: Protocols
  • Founded: Nov 13, 2001
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Hear how Yahoo! Groups has changed the lives of others. Take me there.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Seeking feedback on the Blinksale API   Message List  
Reply Message #6613 of 18560 |
Re: [rest-discuss] Seeking feedback on the Blinksale API

On Oct 2, 2006, at 8:37 AM, Mark Baker wrote:
> On 10/1/06, Roy T. Fielding <fielding@...> wrote:
> > Well, so do I. Self-descriptive means that the type is registered
> and
> > the registry points to a specification and the specification
> explains
> > how to process the data according to its intent.
>
> Ok, which one is it? 8-)
>
> "REST enables intermediate processing by constraining messages to be
> self-descriptive: interaction is stateless between requests, standard
> methods and media types are used to indicate semantics and exchange
> information, and responses explicitly indicate cacheability."

Both. That is just a summary. The real constraint you are looking
for is under 5.2.1:

REST provides a hybrid of all three options by focusing on a
shared understanding of data types with metadata, but limiting
the scope of what is revealed to a standardized interface.
REST components communicate by transferring a representation of
a resource in a format matching one of an evolving set of standard
data types, selected dynamically based on the capabilities or
desires of the recipient and the nature of the resource. Whether
the representation is in the same format as the raw source, or is
derived from the source, remains hidden behind the interface. ...

This is one of those gray areas of increasing RESTfulness that will
doubtless drive some people nuts. The problem is that I can't say
"REST requires media types to be registered" because both Internet
media types and the registry controlled by IANA are a specific
architecture's instance of the style -- they could just as well be
replaced by some other mechanism for metadata description.

The broader question is what does it take to create an *evolving*
set of standard data types? Obviously, I can't say that all data
types have to be *the* standard before they are used in a REST-based
architecture. At the same time, I do require enough standardization
to allow the data format sent to be understood as such by the
recipient. Hence, both sender and recipient agree to a common
registration authority (the standard) for associating media types
with data format descriptions. The degree to which the format chosen
is a commonly accepted standard is less important than making sure
that the sender and recipient agree to the same thing, and that's
all I meant by an evolving set of standard data types.

Sure, it is easier to deploy the use of a commonly understood data
format. However, it is also more efficient to use a format
that is more specifically intended for a given application.
Where those two trade-offs intersect is often dependent on the
application. REST does not demand that everyone agree on a single
format for the exchange of data -- only that the participants in the
communication agree. Beyond that, designers need to apply their
own common sense and choose/create the best formats for the job.

If we want to call one more RESTful than the other, then we have
to take the goal of evolution into account. I would say it is more
RESTful to use a specific standard type when applicable or to define
a new type that is specific to a given purpose AND intended to be
standardized for that application type (i.e., proprietary types are
less RESTful than industry-wide standard types, but new standard
types are not less RESTful than old standard types). But that is
really only my personal preference, since the style does not
constrain REST-based architectures to a single standard.

....Roy



Mon Oct 2, 2006 10:09 pm

roy_fielding
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Message #6613 of 18560 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

So what does "standard" mean again? Can you be specific about which set of bureaucrats I have to tithe to before my messages can be self-descriptive?...
Lucas Gonze
lucas_gonze Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2006
4:17 pm

... Both. That is just a summary. The real constraint you are looking for is under 5.2.1: REST provides a hybrid of all three options by focusing on a shared...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2006
10:11 pm

... In the interview Mark does differentiate between a completely open system (where messages types *must* be standardized) and intra- organisational scenarios...
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971 Offline Send Email
Oct 1, 2006
8:54 am

Looks really good, but two things stand out as unRESTful to me. The first is the documentation for the URI structure, e.g. ...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash Online Now Send Email
Sep 26, 2006
9:32 pm

... That didn't come out right. Even if you register a new media type, messages won't be self-descriptive until the format is standardized. And +1 to Roy on...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash Online Now Send Email
Sep 26, 2006
9:50 pm

... So, Mark, does that mean you have given up on RDF Forms? http://www.markbaker.ca/2003/05/RDF-Forms/ And is a message sufficiently self-descriptive if it...
Bob Haugen
bob.haugen@... Send Email
Oct 1, 2006
3:35 pm

... Nope! That reuses RDF/XML, which has a standard media type (application/rdf+xml). And by Roy's most recent definition, it is self-descriptive because you...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash Online Now Send Email
Oct 2, 2006
4:14 pm

... Why not? What diff does it make if the form came from the form processing resource or was (for example) a standard invoice form, as long as both client...
Bob Haugen
bob.haugen@... Send Email
Oct 2, 2006
4:33 pm

... The trouble is the HEAD of the resource will tell you nothing. And what if you're trying to do content-neg across 2 different documents: - a BPEL invoice...
Nic James Ferrier
nferrier_tap... Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2006
10:53 pm
 First  |  |  Next > Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help