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More on versioned resources   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #7387 of 14229 |
Re: [rest-discuss] More on versioned resources

On Jan 2, 2007, at 7:15 AM, Chris Burdess wrote:
> Benjamin Carlyle wrote:
> > If I PUT several times to <http://example.com/mydocument>, is it
> > important to me that the <http://example.com/mydocument;1>,
> > <http://example.com/mydocument;2>, and <http://example.com/
> mydocument;3>
> > resources are created? My operation has succeeded. Whatever else the
> > server chooses to do with my submission is up to it. I don't see any
> > need to redirect a client to a specific new document version in
> order to
> > allow their PUT operation to proceed.
>
> It does seem to be a bit of a bone of contention. If we assume that
> /mydocument *does* change, i.e. that it is equivalent to
> /mydocument;current or maybe /mydocument?revision=current , and always
> reflects the state of the last change, then the PUT to /mydocument is
> only idempotent with respect to /mydocument and not to the entire
> namespace. This is a problem since RFC 2616 defines an idempotent
> method
> in terms of its side-effects not its direct effects, if you see what I
> mean.

*sigh*

Just ignore the definition of idempotent in RFC 2616. Anything
specified in HTTP that defines how the server shall implement the
semantics of an interface method is wrong, by definition. What
matters is the effect on the interface as expected by the client,
not what actually happens on the server to implement that effect.

....Roy




Tue Jan 2, 2007 8:16 pm

roy_fielding
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Message #7387 of 14229 |
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I've been reflecting a little on this issue with versioned resources and the fact that a straightforward PUT would not be idempotent (or at least not exactly),...
Chris Burdess
dog@...
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Jan 2, 2007
12:18 pm

... When using DeltaV (RFC3744), a PUT will always be idempotent unless you enable auto-versioning. ... I would think so. The server would immediately send the...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2007
2:10 pm

... I'm not familiar with with the original discussion, but why should a 302 be necessary? If I PUT several times to <http://example.com/mydocument>, is it ...
Benjamin Carlyle
fuzzybsc
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Jan 2, 2007
2:24 pm

... Because the resource the client intended to update remains unapdated, thus the expectation implied by PUT fails and therfore a 2xx is inappropriate. ... ...
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971
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Jan 2, 2007
2:46 pm

... Well, all the problems go away if the resource *is* changed. I have the feeling of "not-invented-here". Can anybody please explain why it's so bad to just...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2007
3:05 pm

... Because it violates idempotency, see http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html#sec9.1.2 'Silently' creating a new copy (on a public URI) as you...
Alan Dean
alan_james_dean
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Jan 2, 2007
3:24 pm

... But that is only the case when you have a server with autoversioning. PUT on a RFC3744-versioncontrolled resource is idempotent unless you do ...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2007
5:19 pm

... The issue IMO is that the client needs no knowledge whatsoever about versioning, it just understands PUT and the server uses plain HTTP facilities...
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971
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Jan 2, 2007
3:33 pm

... Can you please explain how that would work with existing clients that follow HTTP/1.1 with respect to not following redirects for unsafe methods?...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2007
3:49 pm

... Are you refering to section 10.3? I am not sure how much this constraint is targeted towards software user agents (as it specificaly mentiones the user)....
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971
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Jan 2, 2007
4:24 pm

... Well, I personally think that a redirect here is the wrong approach. If only if user agents only may follow a redirect without user interaction if the...
Julian Reschke
JulianReschke
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Jan 2, 2007
4:55 pm

... See the thread http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/rest-discuss/message/7254 ... It does seem to be a bit of a bone of contention. If we assume that ...
Chris Burdess
dog@...
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Jan 2, 2007
3:56 pm

... The problem with this is that it only works with linear versioning; branching is not possible. Jan...
Jan Algermissen
algermissen1971
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Jan 2, 2007
4:04 pm

... *sigh* Just ignore the definition of idempotent in RFC 2616. Anything specified in HTTP that defines how the server shall implement the semantics of an...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Jan 2, 2007
9:24 pm

In 2616*, I interpret "side effects" to mean resource state changes, as opposed to values returned in the response. I think Chris is interpreting "side...
Walden Mathews
waldenmathews
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Jan 2, 2007
11:46 pm

I think the answer you're looking for is found in the explanation often given about GET and side-effects; that the client didn't request them and so can't be...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Jan 3, 2007
12:42 am

... Yes, that's it. We have to keep dancing around that bush because terminology is a committee-driven process. Everyone has an opinion and so no opinion is...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
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Jan 3, 2007
1:47 am

... That about sums it up. ;-) ... and ... Reminds me of a post I read the other day on "Why Specs Matter", with an amusing binary taxonomy of developers,...
Andrzej Jan Taramina
ataramina
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Jan 4, 2007
3:24 pm

... More recently, from the same blog: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/12/07/rest-for-toddlers ... Alan Dean...
Alan Dean
alan_james_dean
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Jan 4, 2007
5:02 pm
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