Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
rest-discuss · REST Discussion Mailing List
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Hear how Yahoo! Groups has changed the lives of others. Take me there.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Tim Ewald: "I finally get REST. Wow. "   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #8314 of 14020 |
Re: [rest-discuss] Tim Ewald: "I finally get REST. Wow. "

Bill de hOra wrote:
> I recall Mark Baker and James Strachan talking about paradigms and
> mental gear shifts a few years back when it comes to 'getting' REST. I
> mean seriously, what is there to get? How can an *entire industry* not
> get REST until Q406 or thereabouts? I don't buy it. I think the wheels
> are falling off the WS industry wagon, and SOA will be next. We're
> witnessing one of those once a decade industry re-alignments.

I often think that REST can be difficult for people to understand
because it's so simple.

My experience as someone who was (and still is) mainly a web person was
that REST codified a lot of stuff I'd learned the hard way in much the
same way that when one learns a new software pattern it's often
something one has already used many times, but now it has a name it's
easier to think about.

With that background when I had to make two computers talk to each other
over an HTTP connection I'd come up with something relatively RESTful
without a second thought. To someone with a different background of
overcoming different problems, it could indeed seem very foreign.

The mental block that gets me isn't so much the one over "how does this
work?" but the obstinate belief that the web will never really work
despite all of the evidence to the contrary. I sometimes feel like
Johnson addressing Bishop Berkeley's theory of the non-existence of
matter by kicking a stone and saying "I refute it thus".

Plenty of people on this list had made computers talk to each other over
HTTP and in accordance with HTTP before there was any hype around
"REST", but people still insist that the web doesn't work and we need
rubbish like SOAP to "fix" it, so we need something with an actual name
before they can even dare to belief in it. Similarly, in other aspects
of the web we have "Web2.0" which, as far as I can see, is the radical
notion that the technology we've all been using for over 15 years might
actually work and maybe we should just use it rather than trying to win
the glory of being the person who fixes it.




Mon May 7, 2007 2:04 pm

hack_poet
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #8314 of 14020 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

http://pluralsight.com/blogs/tewald/archive/2007/04/26/46984.aspx "It's depressing to think that SOAP started just about 10 years ago and that now that...
Alan Dean
alan_james_dean
Offline Send Email
Apr 26, 2007
8:51 pm

... Interesting that so many people are pushed away from REST when they consider stored procs. To me stored procs are a key comparison for REST. I write...
Nic James Ferrier
nferrier_tap...
Offline Send Email
Apr 26, 2007
10:37 pm

... I recall Mark Baker and James Strachan talking about paradigms and mental gear shifts a few years back when it comes to 'getting' REST. I mean seriously,...
Bill de hOra
bdehora
Offline Send Email
Apr 29, 2007
2:03 pm

... I often think that REST can be difficult for people to understand because it's so simple. My experience as someone who was (and still is) mainly a web...
Jon Hanna
hack_poet
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
2:07 pm

REST seems to encompass two orthogonal concepts. The first is its HTTP heritage with headers, status codes, etc. (and is under- appreciated or misunderstood,...
Steve Bjorg
steve_bjorg
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
2:45 pm

... It's solely the second. The first part is how it does that, and the decisions as to how they work (e.g. which pieces of information we do and do not put in...
Jon Hanna
hack_poet
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
4:16 pm

... I have a hard time accepting this absolute statement. Most discussions on this list revolve around how to use http methods, status codes, and headers to...
Steve Bjorg
steve_bjorg
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
5:01 pm

... Er, well, sometimes it is better to have a hard time. The former is web architecture and the latter is REST. ... Bounded? No way. It isn't even 1/3rd of...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
6:13 pm

... Thanks for settling this. ... Can you cite an example of what you mean? ... Ok, so here is my conundrum: I was invited to give a short presentation on REST...
Steve Bjorg
steve_bjorg
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
7:24 pm

... Representational State Transfer. HTTP is only the transfer part. URIs, media types, and hypertext as the engine of application state have only incidental...
Roy T. Fielding
roy_fielding
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
1:27 pm

... Yes, if one was somewhat time constrained and the presentation was to an audience that was sufficiently familiar with software architecture. An extended...
Elias Sinderson
elias95060
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
6:21 pm

... Hear! Hear! -- Nic Ferrier http://www.tapsellferrier.co.uk...
Nic James Ferrier
nferrier_tap...
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
3:05 pm

... Hash: SHA1 ... Jon> I often think that REST can be difficult for people to Jon> understand because it's so simple. I think it is more the difference...
Berend de Boer
berenddeboer
Online Now Send Email
May 7, 2007
7:32 pm

... I don't like to defend SOAP (especially in this group), but it isn't a RPC mechanism; it has more similarities with messaging. That's why I always call it...
Arjen Poutsma
poutsma
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
11:06 pm

... Pah. It started out as RPC. It just moved to messaging as soon as it became clear that it didn't really work. ... Yes. They must take a lot of the blame. ...
Nic James Ferrier
nferrier_tap...
Offline Send Email
May 7, 2007
11:17 pm

... Most of the Java APIs are still in the SOAP-as-RPC wold view. I have a theory for this, and, its not just 'its the vendors' fault. Actually I have two. ...
Steve Loughran
steve_loughran
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
8:22 am

... This is patently true. Most of the language vendors don't give a fek about multi-language. Most of them are language bigots after all. It's quite a common...
Nic James Ferrier
nferrier_tap...
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
8:39 am

... Interesting theory. That would also explain why some people are doing RPC over message queues, completely ignoring the asynchronous aspect of MQ. For...
Arjen Poutsma
poutsma
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
10:54 am

... I'd agree with this, to a large extent ... we're starting to see a shift, though, in the available syntax for "common" langauges, for representing things...
Josh Sled
joshsled
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
2:51 pm

... That and maybe better support for trees and graphs of data. ... Every web page you serve up with an <a> link is a distributed app, you are telling the...
Steve Loughran
steve_loughran
Offline Send Email
May 9, 2007
8:01 am

... Ah very well put sir. --Toby...
Toby Thain
tobythain
Offline Send Email
May 8, 2007
2:00 pm
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help