... There are a bunch of missing pieces. WSDL for HTTP resources needs to happen. Work on event models needs to get finished. Maybe store and forward (the...
... Agreed. I've seen way too many XML apps traipse through raw DOMs picking out their data. Getting the your data in readily consumable bits is a great...
... That's a failure of imagination. ;-) Seriously, the parallels are quite significant. In effect, URIs are generic functions that dispatch on message,...
Jeff Bone
jbone@...
May 1, 2002 2:47 pm
1164
... Perhaps, but with nowhere near the urgency, and nowhere near the complexity of WSDL. WSDL exists, and is a necessary part of Web Services, because you...
Mark Baker
distobj@...
May 1, 2002 2:55 pm
1165
... What I meant was: a defining characteristic of functional programming is a lack of side-effects and mutation. In other words, if f(x,y) returns z today, it...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 4:39 pm
1166
... WSDL for HTTP is -- as far as I can tell -- exactly as functional as WSDL for SOAP. That doesn't mean that WSDL is REST-ful, but it does mean ... How does...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 4:44 pm
1167
... The "only machines will see it" argument is the typical of the approach of people who don't care about syntax. ;) ... Well yes, some of it is completely...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 5:19 pm
1168
... Point taken. ... By allowing SOAP-RPC to be transported over event protocols such as JMS, and by having a more fleshed out model for intermediaries....
... Pretty much. Paul may consider optional parameters a simplification, but from a toolkit perspective it is a complexity. It also doesn't help that there...
... Which is exactly the subset that should use HTTP GET. It might be interesting to compare all REST features with the features of 'unpure' functional...
... But GET is also good for fetching information that changes over time: like stock quotes. Paul Prescod...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 7:32 pm
1172
... Yes, that's why languages like Haskell have some side-effect mechanisms. But they are designed very careful and maybe comparing those features with REST...
... The functional programming community realized, oh, circa the Miranda->Haskell transition that this interpretation of function restricted functional...
Jeff Bone
jbone@...
May 1, 2002 7:47 pm
1174
Paul already made the comment that comparing REST to programming language paradigms is like comparing apples to elephants. The Web is not a programming...
... Yes, but just because Paul (or anyone else) makes such a comment doesn't mean that it's true or useful. (I.e.: it may be that this is an apples and...
Jeff Bone
jbone@...
May 1, 2002 8:30 pm
1176
... I didn't mean to imply that (when it comes to REST) what Paul says, goes. That was just my way of saying that I thought that particular comment of his was...
... I don't actually agree with this. While it's true that any computationally complete facility can be used to express any other similar facility --- this is...
Jeff Bone
jbone@...
May 1, 2002 9:01 pm
1178
... whatever ... This is a very good point. ... OK, this is certainly reasonable. But I like to think of using REST as being something similiar to the using...
... Right, the Web is not a programming language; also the Web != REST. REST, specifics aside, is a computing paradigm (disclosure: I accept the notion of...
... Are you saying the processing style depends on the underlying protocol SOAP is carried over/through? I thought SOAP was supposed to be a protocol. Bill de...
I'm not Lucas. 8-) ... Those two things aren't inconsistent. WebDAV is both a protocol and an HTTP extension. SOAP can be used in the same way. Indeed, this...
Mark Baker
distobj@...
May 1, 2002 9:36 pm
1183
... Rethinking problems in terms of resource modelling, I always think of the way that SQL forces you to collapse iterative algorithms into single statements. ...
... ? ... Maybe they're not exclusive, I'm not sure. A (network) protocol is interesting insofar as it's a useful abstraction (of the network). Having to think...
... Absolutely! ... Key word: "was". Seriously, SOAP may meet some technical definition for "protocol" but I'd say it is really some kind of meta-protocol or...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 10:29 pm
1186
Is there anything to accomplish via a BOF at ETCON? IE, a convincing agenda?...
... But WebDAV is only designed to run over HTTP or perhaps over protocols with very HTTP-like characteristics. If you use a WebDAV library you know what to...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 10:48 pm
1188
One of the most striking advantages of SOAP over HTTP is the XML Headers with clear intermediary targeting and requirements on understanding. Some thoughts are...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 1, 2002 11:41 pm
1189
I submitted a description for an ETCON BOF called "Alternative Web Services Architectures". I don't think that in one or two hours we can make huge progress...
Paul Prescod
paul@...
May 2, 2002 12:37 am
1190
... Well put. What are the missing pieces? - discovery (wsdl-style declarative formats, intellisense-tool friendly stuff, etc.) - clients (do we need to write...
