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Error reading my FITS images   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #677 of 683 |
Re: Artificial Star Question

Dr. Biretta/Group -

A careful further examination of the data in the comparison table of post # 673,
plus some investigation into how the performance numbers are calculated by the
two applications, WinRoddier2.2 and OpenFringe, has produced some further
insights into the question of comparing results between the two.

The reported Strehl ratios in the table are calculated from the value of the
normalized Zernike coefficient according to the algoritm:

Strehl ratio = exp(-(2*pi*sigma)^2) Eq. 1

where sigma is the rms value of the wavefront or surface error.

If only the single value of primary spheric is considered, sigma, the rms error,
is numerically equal to the normalized coefficient value; for WinRoddier2.2 this
is:

(Primary Spheric Zernike Coefficient)/(Reference Wavelength) Eq. 2

this value is then used in Eq. 1 to obtain the reported Strehl ratio for Primary
Spheric alone.

For WinRoddier2.2, the mathmatical methodology for obtaining the Primary Spheric
Zernike coefficient is not known.

In the case of interferometry and OpenFringe, the rms value to be used to
calculate Strehl ratio must be obtained from the reported Zernike coefficient by
a consdierably more complex calculation.

First a "software null correction" (necessary because a parabolic mirror is
being tested at its center of curvature, not is focal point) must be subtracted
from the listed Primary Spheric Zernike coefficient value:

sc = Zernike value minus Null Correction Eq. 3

Then this difference is squared and divided by a scaling factor used from
Zernike theory:

S = sc^2/(Scale Factor) Eq. 4

Next, the rms error sigma is calculated:

Sigma = Sqrt(Sigma)* (wavelength of test laser)/(Reference wavelength) Eq. 5

This final sigma value is then the one used in Eq. 1 to obtain the Strehl ratio
of Primary Spheric coefficient. In the case of the table in post # 673, the rms
value used to produce the Primary Spheric only Strehl ratio (0.983) is 0.021,
not the 0.0396 value listed on the last line. Roddier and OpenFringe then do in
fact calculate quite different values of Strehl ratio, 0.934 versus 0.983 in
this example.

From the above it is readily apparent that the Strehl values from interferometry
are obtained using a number of factors from the interferometry test (Null
correction, laser wavelengths, etc.); further, the end results are descriptors
of a surface, not a wavefront. So direct and specific comparison of Roddier and
interferometric results may not be really meaningful, as the underlying
processing methods may be different. This then makes comparing the two tests in
a quantitative way rather difficult, particularly since interferometry measures
a mirror alone while Roddier measure a complete telescope. As of now, it seems
that comparisons need to be used mostly as sanity checks, raising alerts if
differences seem grossly out of proportion; comparing numbers in the third
decimal place may not mean much.

There are probably many ways in which my interferometric measurement Strehl
ratios in the mid 0.90s (mirror) can evolve into Roddier measured results in the
low 0.80s (telescope).

Mick Hollimon
11 June 09
8:53 PM PDT USA




Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:53 am

m_hollimon
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Forward
Message #677 of 683 |
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Hello Group, I am trying the Roddier software on images from my 13" F4 Newtonian. So far I get a crash when I try to open the images. Images are edited in...
drgert1
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May 14, 2009
4:48 am

... Gert - I suggest downloading IRIS (freeware) and, after processing and saving (presumably as .FIT) in AstroArt, load into IRIS and immediately save as...
m_hollimon
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May 16, 2009
1:52 am

Group - here is a hopefully interesting question for the collective wisdom: Background: I have been actively considering the construction of an "indoor...
m_hollimon
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Jun 6, 2009
10:26 pm

Hi, Keeping in mind that I haven't done anything with Roddier : - Can the 2120 be set up on something like Polaris and have it's SA characterized by Roddier?...
Matt Considine
mconsidine_1999
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Jun 6, 2009
10:53 pm

... From: m_hollimon To: roddier@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:26 PM Subject: [roddier] Artificial Star Question Group - here is a hopefully...
Ron Watson
ronald_watson@...
Send Email
Jun 6, 2009
11:12 pm

Hi Mick, This is a very good question. I have done alot of visual star testing and some Roddier in this mode using a scope as a collimator to provide an...
zeissnut
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Jun 7, 2009
12:03 am

... Dr. Biretta - it's certainly good to hear from you again; hope the WFPC3 begins to work well soon. Of course I was much afraid the above would be the...
m_hollimon
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Jun 7, 2009
8:47 pm

... Hi Mick, First, I have enjoyed reading your posts over the months detailing your experience with Roddier. John Biretta and I often observe together and...
Paul Leuba
ngc891_2003
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Jun 9, 2009
2:07 am

... Mr. Leuba - thanks much for the encouragement. The impetus in all this is not to attack or demean Roddier but to try to get Roddier and interferometry to...
m_hollimon
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Jun 9, 2009
6:03 pm

... Hi Mick, I tried to get a quick look at your earlier results on SA. One interesting item I noticed is that Roddier and your interferometry seem to roughly...
zeissnut
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Jun 10, 2009
12:09 am

... Dr. Biretta - thanks much for the examination of some of the previous test results. I am going to carefully re-examine the later test stuff (T6, T7, T8)...
m_hollimon
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Jun 10, 2009
1:27 am

Hi Mick, ... I had just looked at the first of the T6 results you had. If I isolate the spherical term, using the check boxes in Roddier 0.4 / Front d'onde /...
zeissnut
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Jun 10, 2009
7:04 pm

... Dr. Biretta - thanks again for the quick look. Armed with improved insights (as a result of your quick look at T6/0DegA), I reexamined said image pair...
m_hollimon
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Jun 10, 2009
10:51 pm

Dr. Biretta - in all the blather of post #673 I completely forgot to ask an important question: In the table of Zernike coefficients from Roddier, the bottom...
m_hollimon
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Jun 10, 2009
11:33 pm

... These are the higher-order aberrations or residuals after the other listed Zernikes are subtracted off. It will contain narrow zones, edge effects, bumps,...
zeissnut
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Jun 10, 2009
11:55 pm

... Dr. Biretta - thanks, I understand. Peculiar that I get a 0.02-0.04 Strehl improvement by turning them off; the mirror shouldn't have much roughness...
m_hollimon
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Jun 11, 2009
1:14 am

Dr. Biretta/Group - A careful further examination of the data in the comparison table of post # 673, plus some investigation into how the performance numbers...
m_hollimon
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Jun 12, 2009
3:54 am

Hi Mick, I'm trying to follow along the numbers in these recent posts. Couple random questions.... So you are doing interferometry at the radius of curvature,...
zeissnut
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Jun 12, 2009
10:28 pm

... Dr. Biretta - sorry for any confusion about some of these details. All the Zernike coefficients displayed by OpenFringe are normalized,i.e., an error...
m_hollimon
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Jun 13, 2009
4:42 pm

... The above mods have been completed and a set of Roddier images (Test 9) obtained and analyzed using Vega as the target star. ... A "fanatically careful"...
m_hollimon
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Jul 21, 2009
8:12 pm

Only a point. I used Vega last year for Roddier test of a Klevstov-Cassegrain (TAL 250K). In my conclusion, it's too bright for a correct testing (I also...
Oscar González Re...
ogrydc
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Sep 1, 2009
3:08 pm

... Oscar - an interesting point. Seems like this effect would also modify results for refractors but they generally test closer to expectations. Curious. I...
m_hollimon
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Sep 1, 2009
8:08 pm

Group - in post #680 I raised two questions about the interaction between camera sensor chip orientation and Roddier analysis results. I have so far found no...
m_hollimon
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Sep 16, 2009
1:14 am
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