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Identifying your feed generator?   Message List  
Reply Message #2352 of 7450 |
Re: [RSS-DEV] Identifying your feed generator?

[
note: this is a continuance from a bulletin board thread started here:
http://www.movabletype.org/support/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=12&t=246
More on the initial brewing of this topic/implementation is here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndic8/message/1289 and also here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndic8/message/1304 All further
quotes in this message come from the MT thread.
]

>Yes, RDF would provide greater meta data possiblities.
>There's no defined format for a generator, however.

See http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfig/2001-05-27.txt (where the
quote below is from) as well as http://webns.net/mvcb/generatorAgent :

17:03:05 <dc_rdfig> A: ops:errorReportsTo and ops:generatorAgent
17:05:37 <kmacleod> A:These came up in a discussion of RSS. When you have
many providers of RSS (RDF) you often have situations where users or their
software create files that have errors in either their use of RDF, the
schema used, or even XML itself.
17:08:01 <kmacleod> A:ops:generatorAgent would be the URI of the software,
if any, used to generate the RDF.

>So here's the situation, put in a comment and your feed will be counted.
>The alternatives are to open up a whole debate on the next generation of
>simple RSS or to use RDF. Which one's easiest?

It's easier to shoot my girlfriend then to calmly rationalize with her.

>There's plenty reasons to NOT allow a consuming client to see this data.
>The single biggest reason is one with which you're doubtlessly familiar.
>And that's to not allow the client programs to start 'special casing' their
>treatment of the feeds.

Well, if you're gunning for something that isn't easily recognized by
client parsers (and usable by only those that specifically code for it,
like Syndic8), then at least try and make it valid with the XML itself.

The easiest would be to simply remove the DOCTYPE from the feed itself,
then add an ops:generatorAgent as an attribute somewhere. You say elsewhere
that most client apps don't validate by DOCTYPE, and this certainly has
credence based on the NS/Doctype Removal Event (tm). Another option would
be processing instructions [1], which are like comments, but structured.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#sec-pi

--
Morbus Iff ( softcore vulcan pr0n rulezzzzz )
http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/
please me: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/wishlist/25USVJDH68554
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus




Fri Feb 1, 2002 10:11 pm

morbus_iff
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Message #2352 of 7450 |
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Hi folks, I came across your e-mail addresses when researching the tools used to create newsfeeds. I've sent you a CC of the mailing list message about it. ...
Bill Kearney
wkearney99 Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
4:40 pm

hi Bill I think you have 2 different things mixed up here. I do have a toolkit which will generate rss 1.0; however the feeds you mention are Dan Brickley's,...
Libby Miller
millibby Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
5:53 pm

Thanks for the clarification. I'll follow up with Dan on the feeds themselves. When you add that comment the polling code at Syndic8.com will notice it. ...
Bill Kearney
wkearney99 Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
6:26 pm

... Eek! For RSS 1.0 can we nip this in the bud and do it right? How about <syndic8:generator>Inkling/0.50</syndic8:generator> as either a channel element or...
Ken MacLeod
poy_mp3 Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
6:45 pm

... It is probably best modeled as a property of the channel. Putting stuff in XML comments worries me; it excludes us from using various of the data...
Dan Brickley
danbri3 Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
7:01 pm

... I agree, for RDF formatted RSS, that it would be better to not use a comment for this purpose. Is there nothing in the various namespaces (DC, etc) that...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 2, 2002
3:31 am

[ note: this is a continuance from a bulletin board thread started here: http://www.movabletype.org/support/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=12&t=246 More on the...
Morbus Iff
morbus_iff Offline Send Email
Feb 1, 2002
10:11 pm

... And apparently someone here forgets the pissing match that was extending RSS... So much for calmly rationalizing... ... My point about client parsing is...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 2, 2002
3:31 am

... Not at all. I do not, under any circumstance, want to see comments used as unstructured data, or as a way to add new elements to XML that's restricted by a...
Morbus Iff
morbus_iff Offline Send Email
Feb 2, 2002
3:50 am

... Ok, that looks like a better idea. How about separating the product name from it's version? Or how about using the Mozilla or RFC formatted strings? I'd...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 2, 2002
5:33 pm

... Yeah, the above format sits with me better as well. -- Morbus Iff ( god less america ) http://www.disobey.com/ && http://www.gamegrene.com/ i write for...
Morbus Iff
morbus_iff Offline Send Email
Feb 3, 2002
7:08 pm

... This looks fine to me, but I don't want to be the specifier and the prime consumer of this data until we have some consensus here. As soon as we have some...
Jeff Barr
jeffbarr_2000 Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
3:19 pm

Hi ... Could this be used for all flavours of RSS? If so then I can see why it might make more sense than creating a RSS 1.0 module for this, however perhaps a...
Chris Croome
chris_in_she... Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
3:35 pm

... Yes. -- Karl Ove Hufthammer...
Karl Ove Hufthammer
huftis Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
4:11 pm

... How about: <?syndic8 generator="AmphetaDesk" version="0.91"?> -- Karl Ove Hufthammer...
Karl Ove Hufthammer
huftis Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
4:11 pm

Hi ... or: <?syndic8.com generator="AmphetaDesk" version="0.91"?> ^^^^ It _might_ result in more people working out what it's for? Chris -- Chris Croome...
Chris Croome
chris_in_she... Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
4:22 pm

... No, '.' is not allowed processing instruction names. -- Karl Ove Hufthammer...
Karl Ove Hufthammer
huftis Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
4:26 pm

... Jeff Barr said earlier that he didn't want it the "syndic8" in there, so what about this modified version: <?generator agent="AmphetaDesk" version="0.91"...
Morbus Iff
morbus_iff Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
5:22 pm

... Change 'email' to 'e-mail', and it looks perfect to me. :) -- Karl Ove Hufthammer...
Karl Ove Hufthammer
huftis Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
6:38 pm

... And we slide down the slippery slope of specifying what other attributes are appropriate. The Mozilla team's work on version strings is what I've emulated...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 4, 2002
7:06 pm

And wouldn't we want to use dublin core qualifiers for the various field types? Name, email, contact, subject, keywords, etc, ad nauseum? Seriously, how...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 4, 2002
7:09 pm

... it looks good to me too. I hate having actual information in a comment. If other aggree it's just a matter of second for NewsIsFree to start generating...
Mike Krus
mwkrus Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
3:26 pm

... Not that I'm aware of. The last time around on this topic, we did make a module proposal: http://209.134.132.87/2001/05/mod_admin_draft.html This draft...
Ken MacLeod
poy_mp3 Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2002
9:03 pm

... While this is great for RSS-1.0, is it worth using something will also work in the simple RSS-0.9x formats? -Bill Kearney...
wkearney99 Offline Send Email Feb 8, 2002
12:06 am

... I would say no. The two formats have a rationale for representing their information as they do, for the tools that read them. Specific to "why not" XML...
Ken MacLeod
poy_mp3 Offline Send Email
Feb 8, 2002
2:10 am
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