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Reply | Forward Message #3402 of 7450 |
I have been remaining silent for a while, partly because of a lack of
bandwidth and also because I have a feeling that most of what is being
discussed has already been discussed before RSS 1.0 went "official" and
is about things which IMO cannot been fixed in RSS 1.0 which should
remain stable.

Now, I can see two reasons why there is such a need to rediscuss stuff
on which decisions have already been taken:

1) the decisions have not been documented enough
2) the decisions were not the best choices.

I think that in our case it's probably 50%/50% between these two and
that we need to move along (toward RSS 1.1 ?) and fix these stuff
definitely.

The big mistake we've done IMO, has been to focus on the syntax and I
think we should reconsider the choice that the RSS documents should be
100% RDF compliant and consider the possibility to make them simpler XML
and just "RDF friendly" with a documented way to generate triples out of
them.

To do so, we would need to define a proper model, eventually as a RDF
schema, with a simple XML representation and document the mapping
between the model and the syntax.

Does that make sense?

Eric
--
Rendez-vous à Paris.
http://www.technoforum.fr/integ2002/index.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric van der Vlist http://xmlfr.org http://dyomedea.com
(W3C) XML Schema ISBN:0-596-00252-1 http://oreilly.com/catalog/xmlschema
------------------------------------------------------------------------




Thu Sep 5, 2002 6:53 am

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Message #3402 of 7450 |
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I have been remaining silent for a while, partly because of a lack of bandwidth and also because I have a feeling that most of what is being discussed has...
Eric van der Vlist
evlist
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Sep 5, 2002
6:53 am

... No. And RDF schema isn't going to make something that isn't 100% RDF compliant into something that is. The RDF schema relates different Classes and...
Jon Hanna
hack_poet
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Sep 5, 2002
10:37 am

... Of course not. That's why I mentioned a transformation between a XML "RDF friendly" format and RDF. What I meant is that what's really important at the end...
Eric van der Vlist
evlist
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Sep 5, 2002
11:22 am

... That's marketing the idea that one should drop RDF support in words that make it sound like you aren't. ... I don't think it would be beneficial to have a...
Jon Hanna
hack_poet
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Sep 5, 2002
11:33 am

... No, there was no marketing in my mind (I am a terrible marketer, I don't venture in such lands and to be sure I would not be tempted I have unsubscribed to...
Eric van der Vlist
evlist
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Sep 5, 2002
11:50 am

... What is the price? Is the need to add an rdf:about really that high? Apparently pointless yes, but that is an issue with the spec, not with the standard it...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 5, 2002
12:05 pm

... No, the rdf:Seq is more of an issue. ... In which regard is RSS 1.0 compatible with RSS 0.9? ... No, it could|should have defined the data model of an XML...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 5, 2002
12:18 pm

... It's a pretty static piece of code though. ... To answer that I need an example RSS0.9 document that uses all of its elements: <rdf:RDF ...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 5, 2002
12:48 pm

... But that's against the very principle of XML namespaces which not only do not mention that two namespaces may be equivalent but says that elements are...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 5, 2002
1:01 pm

... Yes, As far as XML namespaces is concerned the two are completely different. However XMLNamespaces doesn't say that an application cannot recognise two ...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 5, 2002
2:08 pm

... Is your "RDF friendly" format, just plain XML+Namespaces, as discussed here? http://rss.benhammersley.com/archives/000976.html L....
ldodds@...
leighdodds2001
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Sep 5, 2002
11:36 am

... Or rather like recently discussed on xml-dev... Thinking more about it, I think that the big addition of RSS 1.0 might be the modularity, more than RDF... ...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 5, 2002
11:39 am

... I must admit that I've been thinking along the same lines here. L....
ldodds@...
leighdodds2001
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Sep 5, 2002
11:41 am

... I agree... but the RDF has it's value. I'm hearing a lot of people saying "We want to get into using RDF, but it's a lot of work for little immediate...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 5, 2002
12:00 pm

... Show me the Visicalc for RDF. Show me /the killer app/ that justifies asking Joe Average content producer to add all this metadata. Where is this app? ......
Bill Kearney
wkearney99
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Sep 5, 2002
12:08 pm

... I certainly intend to :)...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 5, 2002
12:15 pm

... Perhaps by producing better documentation and examples that focus on truly educating the target audience of developers. ... Yep, a 'house cleaning' of...
Bill Kearney
wkearney99
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Sep 5, 2002
12:10 pm

... FYI: http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2002/Sep/04#x799 -joe -- http://bitworking.org...
Joe Gregorio
JCGregorio
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Sep 5, 2002
12:34 pm

... Sure, Rael did this in the RSS091 module for RSS-1.0. You could declare the 91 namespace and then use it's element names. It would be certainly possible,...
Bill Kearney
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Sep 5, 2002
1:07 pm

... the ... ways ... As someone who did some work in XML, but is a complete newbie in RDF, could someone please explain what the benefits of the RDF elements...
Ziv Caspi
zivcaspi
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Sep 5, 2002
9:01 pm

Howdy, Following the leads of Eric [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/3402] et al, I've written up some of the thoughts that have been stewing in...
Rael Dornfest
hankfein
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Sep 6, 2002
3:50 am

... Excellent stuff Rael. I think that bringing namespaces and modularity into RSS were the big wins, and while I'm also an RDF fan I have to agree with...
Leigh Dodds
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Sep 6, 2002
9:53 am

... I agree wholeheartedly with this. My preference is to have the simplest possible, extensible format for syndicating news headlines and content. That means...
Ian Davis
ianalchemy
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Sep 6, 2002
12:38 pm

Hi Rael, ... Since you are presenting it as my leads, I'd say that even though that may lead us to the same place, that's neither the reason nor the way I ...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 6, 2002
2:44 pm

(the fact that we have not been able to add a vocabulary version ... There is a version number, it's in the namespace URI. Even HTML dropped the old idea of a...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 6, 2002
3:09 pm

... I need stronger arguments than "W3C did it" to be convinced :-) and I do think that version attributes are the best way to manage minor evolutions. By...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 6, 2002
4:00 pm

... The "RDF-friendly" bits are basically the rdf:about and rdf:resource attributes, no? And if those RDF-friendly bits are in the document already, and so can...
Leigh Dodds
leighdodds2001
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Sep 6, 2002
4:28 pm

... Not only. Another "RDF friendly" requirement IMO is to model the document as a graph rather than as a tree and to use URIs as identifiers. I think that...
Eric van der Vlist
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Sep 6, 2002
4:48 pm

... If you know about it. Which you won't unless you are explicitly looking for extracting RDF from this sort of RSS. Which you won't unless RSS becomes as ...
Jon Hanna
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Sep 6, 2002
4:53 pm
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