> > Which is running a regex on the uri provided form the default
> > namespace, expecting it to be either:
> > http://purl.org/rss/1.0/ or
> > http://my.netscape.com/rdf/simple/0.9/
>
> Ah, so Kevin's feed using xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" as
> the default
> would certainly freak it out.  Shouldn't it, perhaps, be looking at the
> namespaces instead and then digging out the prefix?  That would
> have found it.

Yes, regexing for a predefined prefix is pure guesswork and shouldn't be
expected to work.

On Monday, 04 November 2002 at 17:34, Bill Kearney wrote:
> What would it take to get XML:RSS updated to support namespaces 'properly'?

> http://search.cpan.org/dist/XML-RSS/RSS.pm
I took a look at it this week while writing my LiSA[1] parser and noticed
the hardcoded '#default' namespaces. If no-one else picks it up first
I will hammer out a patch one night this week.

Ian

Hi. I was going to do a few documents as test cases. The idea was that I
would do a few that were the same document but encoded in slightly different
ways, so if a parser didn't see them all as identical then there would be a
bug.

However I came across a hoary old issue. If these documents are to claim to
be valid to an extent that they can be a test case then we need to resolve
the current use of:
<rdf:li resource="..."/> instead of <rdf:li rdf:resource="..."/>.

This has already been discussed:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/2200
and voted on:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/surveys?id=742580

In brief readers should understand both, writers should use the second, and
validators should warn about the first (i.e. the general "Robustness
Principle" of "Be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept
from others." generally attributed to Vint Cerf).

I'm going to proceed as taking the vote as making this change to the RSS
even if it isn't currently reflected in the Spec. Could we also change to
spec to accord with the (over one year old!) vote decision?

Jon Hanna

PGP http://www.spin.ie/jon.asc
PGP Fingerprint 707E 5E39 3BF5 533A D1DD  2083 8169 BFD7 F532 BD18
"...it has been truly said that hackers have even more words for equipment
failures than Yiddish has for obnoxious people." - jargon.txt

>>>Jon Hanna said:
> Hi. I was going to do a few documents as test cases. The idea was that I
> would do a few that were the same document but encoded in slightly different
> ways, so if a parser didn't see them all as identical then there would be a
> bug.
>
> However I came across a hoary old issue. If these documents are to claim to
> be valid to an extent that they can be a test case then we need to resolve
> the current use of:
> <rdf:li resource="..."/> instead of <rdf:li rdf:resource="..."/>.

Don't worry about it, the RDF Core working group has taken this
feedback (and others) on board and we are re-allow both forms.  If I
wasn't writing this message, I'd be publishing the updated syntax
draft... ;)

Cheers

Dave

> Don't worry about it, the RDF Core working group has taken this
> feedback (and others) on board and we are re-allow both forms.

Yuck! I was hoping supporting both forms would just be an intermeditary
matter. Ah well.

Some test docs are at http://www.spin.ie/jon/rss/ to get the ball rolling.

These are documents that should be considered equivalent at the level of the
information obtained from the XML, i.e. before the RSS-specific or even
RDF-specific processing kicks in.

Could people confirm that these docs DO actually contain the same data?

FYI, NetNewsWire is now supporting XML-level redirection.

http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/11/05#When:6:48:03AM

It would be great if the other aggregators did too. ;->

Dave

So looking a little closer at XML::RSS I realized the assumption that RSS is the
default namespace riddles the module.

So I made a quick patch to remove this dependency.  I've sent it along to the
maintainers, and also attached it, if anyone is interested.

One question that came up for me, is whether the concept of an RSS version
number makes sense on a feed by feed basis.

XML::RSS attempts to parse the 3 major flavours of XML available when it was
written (it remains blissfully unaware of 2.0), and so it is useful for it to
attempt to discover what RSS version it is currently parsing.

My patch loops through the declared namespaces, looking for either for the RSS
1.0, or RSS .9 URIs, or it assumes that we are working with a RSS .9x feed.

At which point I was struck with existential doubts.  Is the concept of a
"version" even legitimate?  After all I could declare namespaces for both .9 and
1.0 (and even .91 using the .91 module)

How have other parsers handled this?  It seems that version is a concept that
really only applies at the element level.

Thanks,
kellan

>FYI, NetNewsWire is now supporting XML-level redirection.

So are most browsers :

<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="15; URL=newpage.html" />

seeAlso: the "Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October
5, 1998" :

<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
          xmlns:UL="http://www.userland.com/rdf/">

   <rdf:Description about="http://www.bar.com/oldpath/news.rss">
     <UL:RelocatedTo rdf:resource="http://www.bar.com/news.rss"/>
   </rdf:Description>

</rdf:RDF>

http://static.userland.com/userLandDiscussArchive/msg006029.html

Heh, nothing like seeing how much this has been worked over by plenty of others
before.

I'll point out that Dublin Core has terms that seem rather well suited here.
Why invent new ones?

-Bill Kearney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Ayers" <danny666@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: [RSS-DEV] XML-level redirection


> seeAlso: the "Archive of UserLand's first discussion group, started October
> 5, 1998" :
>
> <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>          xmlns:UL="http://www.userland.com/rdf/">
>
>   <rdf:Description about="http://www.bar.com/oldpath/news.rss">
>     <UL:RelocatedTo rdf:resource="http://www.bar.com/news.rss"/>
>   </rdf:Description>
>
> </rdf:RDF>
>
> http://static.userland.com/userLandDiscussArchive/msg006029.html
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>I'll point out that Dublin Core has terms that seem rather well
>suited here.

Do you have a ref? A quick search got me nowhere.


>Why invent new ones?

"OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications
because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By
extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS
projects entry into the market."

(OSS = Open Source Software)
- internal strategy memorandum on Microsoft's possible responses to the
Linux/Open Source phenomenon, October 1998
http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween1.php

Cheers,
Danny.

Danny,

Just curious -- which "highly commoditized, simple protocols" have you
contributed?

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Ayers" <danny666@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: [RSS-DEV] XML-level redirection


>
> >I'll point out that Dublin Core has terms that seem rather well
> >suited here.
>
> Do you have a ref? A quick search got me nowhere.
>
>
> >Why invent new ones?
>
> "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server
applications
> because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By
> extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS
> projects entry into the market."
>
> (OSS = Open Source Software)
> - internal strategy memorandum on Microsoft's possible responses to the
> Linux/Open Source phenomenon, October 1998
> http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween1.php
>
> Cheers,
> Danny.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Yeah, the recent archives of this group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/4209

My comment about not reinventing the wheel is directed more at efforts that seem
bent on avoiding use of sensible and well through-out semantics in the framework
and in Dublin Core.  Take you pick as to the reasons; various paranoid theories
seem to abound.  If you're making the jab that such reinvention for this concept
is a deliberate vendor ploy, a la Microsoft, you're certainly following one of
the theories.  I'm more inclined to attribute stubborness and ego rather than
proprietary vendor scheming.  (in this case anyway)

-Bill Kearney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Ayers" <danny666@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: [RSS-DEV] XML-level redirection


>
> >I'll point out that Dublin Core has terms that seem rather well
> >suited here.
>
> Do you have a ref? A quick search got me nowhere.
>
>
> >Why invent new ones?
>
> "OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications
> because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By
> extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS
> projects entry into the market."
>
> (OSS = Open Source Software)
> - internal strategy memorandum on Microsoft's possible responses to the
> Linux/Open Source phenomenon, October 1998
> http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween1.php
>
> Cheers,
> Danny.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

>Just curious -- which "highly commoditized, simple protocols" have you
>contributed?

Protocols aren't really my thing, although I do normally put quite a lot of
the code I've worked on on the web (mostly at http://www.isacat.net ).
Having said that, I suppose part of what I'm working on at present might
count - some terms for use in discussion metadata, e.g. semantic weblogs :
http://purl.org/ibis

Cheers,
Danny.

>Yeah, the recent archives of this group.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rss-dev/message/4209

D'oh! - thanks, I'd forgotten to look here...

>My comment about not reinventing the wheel is directed more at
>efforts that seem
>bent on avoiding use of sensible and well through-out semantics in
>the framework
>and in Dublin Core.

That certainly makes sense.

Take you pick as to the reasons; various
>paranoid theories
>seem to abound.  If you're making the jab that such reinvention
>for this concept
>is a deliberate vendor ploy, a la Microsoft, you're certainly
>following one of
>the theories.  I'm more inclined to attribute stubborness and ego
>rather than
>proprietary vendor scheming.  (in this case anyway)

Well ok, you're probably right, but like all good conspiracy theories, as
soon as the idea takes hold you start seeing evidence everywhere - e.g.
centralised identity systems:
http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/11/04

Cheers,
Danny.

On Tuesday, 05 November 2002 at 16:02, Jon Hanna wrote:

> Could people confirm that these docs DO actually contain the same data?
Jon, these are great. Only one nit - the second item has a title 'Test
Case Feed Item 1' which threw me the first time I parsed them.

Ian

On Monday, 04 November 2002 at 17:34, Bill Kearney wrote:
> What would it take to get XML:RSS updated to support namespaces 'properly'?
> http://search.cpan.org/dist/XML-RSS/RSS.pm
I have a completed patch for XML::RSS which I have sent to Jonathan
Eisenzopf and Rael Dornfest for inclusion in the module. I have also
offered to take over maintenance of the module if either of them do
not have the time to do so any more.

Thanks to Jon Hanna for his test cases. I wrote a unit test to run
XML::RSS against each of the files and verify the parsing of the
module. The module now parses all eight files identically, except for
sixth.rdf which contains a BOM (byte order marker - tells you what
unicode encoding is being used). I've had problems in the past parsing
XML documents with a BOM using the XML::Parser module. I removed it
for my unit test and XML::RSS parsed the CDATA without problems.

I'll report back once I've heard back from either Jonathan or Rael.

Ian

> > Could people confirm that these docs DO actually contain the same data?
> Jon, these are great. Only one nit - the second item has a title 'Test
> Case Feed Item 1' which threw me the first time I parsed them.

Oops, at least I was consistent with the typo :)

It is now fixed, though that of course means I could do with people checking
I didn't introduce inconsistencies during that fix.

Also can anyone else think of other possible issues at this level (i.e. at
the level of basic XML support) before I start on some more RSS-specific
tests?

I've had problems in the past parsing
> XML documents with a BOM using the XML::Parser module.

Yes the BOM is a bit weird (at least in UTF-8, in UTF-16 it is compulsory,
end-of-story). There was some controversy for a while about whether the BOM
should be compulsory, prohibited, or optional in XML documents encoded in
UTF-8 and it was finally resolved that producers MAY use it (and hence
parsers MUST accept it). See http://www.w3.org/XML/xml-V10-2e-errata#E22 for
more.

The simplest solution if to fixing parsers that don't process a UTF-8 BOM on
is just to look for the byte-sequence 0xEF, 0xBB, 0xBF and eat it before the
rest of the processing is done (perhaps taking the opportunity to record
that the stream is definitely UTF-8 if such action makes sense to your
implementation).

A more complicated matter is UTF-16 WITHOUT a BOM, however there is no
requirement that XML parsers deal with this, so I don't have a test case for
it (UTF-16 XML without a BOM is an error and how you do or do not process it
is implementation-defined).

Someone kindly pointed out off list that I sent the wrong version of
this patch to the list.  Rather then compounding that mistake by
re-sending, the url for the patch is:
http://laughingmeme.org/~kellan/xmlrss_namespace_patch

Sorry about that,
Kellan

--- In rss-dev@y..., Kellan <kellan@p...> wrote:
> So looking a little closer at XML::RSS I realized the assumption
that RSS is the
> default namespace riddles the module.
>
> So I made a quick patch to remove this dependency.  I've sent it
along to the
> maintainers, and also attached it, if anyone is interested.
>
> One question that came up for me, is whether the concept of an RSS
version
> number makes sense on a feed by feed basis.
>
> XML::RSS attempts to parse the 3 major flavours of XML available
when it was
> written (it remains blissfully unaware of 2.0), and so it is useful
for it to
> attempt to discover what RSS version it is currently parsing.
>
> My patch loops through the declared namespaces, looking for either
for the RSS
> 1.0, or RSS .9 URIs, or it assumes that we are working with a RSS
.9x feed.
>
> At which point I was struck with existential doubts.  Is the concept
of a
> "version" even legitimate?  After all I could declare namespaces for
both .9 and
> 1.0 (and even .91 using the .91 module)
>
> How have other parsers handled this?  It seems that version is a
concept that
> really only applies at the element level.
>
> Thanks,
> kellan

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

"Dave Winer" <dave@...> writes:

> FYI, NetNewsWire is now supporting XML-level redirection.
>
> http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2002/11/05#When:6:48:03AM
>
> It would be great if the other aggregators did too. ;->
<snip/>

It would be interesting (if at least from a scientific perspective) to see how
many RSS feeds are using this...

Kevin

- --
Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burton@...
)
              Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
         Jabber - burtonator@...,  Web - http://www.peerfear.org/
         GPG fingerprint: 4D20 40A0 C734 307E C7B4  DCAA 0303 3AC5 BD9D 7C4D
          IRC - openprojects.net #infoanarchy | #p2p-hackers | #reptile

Windows is easy to learn and hard to use, while *nix is hard to learn but easy
to use.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt

iD8DBQE9yb5AAwM6xb2dfE0RAhMsAKCp/mkCTSps2DInOUi95Y26mxZYmACfdPky
IKeV+K0V7R054JEJ/4HTYOI=
=KTJz
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Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?

There is the syndic8 yahoogroup list.  That has some aspects of advocacy.  In
that the Syndic8.com database of RSS feeds has been driven by a considerable
amount of advocacy work.

What are you looking to fulfill?

-Bill Kearney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Ransom" <doug_ransom@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy


> Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Bill does that mean you're going to open that list to all who want to
participate, or will it remain a gated community that you control? Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy


> There is the syndic8 yahoogroup list.  That has some aspects of advocacy.
In
> that the Syndic8.com database of RSS feeds has been driven by a
considerable
> amount of advocacy work.
>
> What are you looking to fulfill?
>
> -Bill Kearney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Ransom" <doug_ransom@...>
> To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:22 PM
> Subject: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
>
>
> > Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Dave, one could say the same of many lists.  Please try to take the high road.

For those not familiar with this issue perhaps a little background is in order.
There are mailing lists operated by some people in a fashion that doesn't always
fulfill the expectations of others.  For example, the syndic8 list I mentioned
is moderated by myself and others.  In the past that list has requested that
vendors avoid using it to shill their products.  Fill in the blanks as to the
vendor in question.

Conversely there are support that miss the mark as well.  Those lists are often
micromanaged by their operators such that messages are deleted, censored through
moderation and various people are blocked from participation.

I'll refrain from further commentary as the discussion would only inflame
various bruised egos.

-Bill Kearney

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy


> Bill does that mean you're going to open that list to all who want to
> participate, or will it remain a gated community that you control? Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@...>
> To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
>
>
> > There is the syndic8 yahoogroup list.  That has some aspects of advocacy.
> In
> > that the Syndic8.com database of RSS feeds has been driven by a
> considerable
> > amount of advocacy work.
> >
> > What are you looking to fulfill?
> >
> > -Bill Kearney
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Ransom" <doug_ransom@...>
> > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:22 PM
> > Subject: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> >
> >
> > > Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

Then the Syndic8 mail list, as long as it is not open to all, is not a good
choice for the advocacy work for RSS. It would be a good idea to have such a
list, a place where people wanting to implement RSS could ask questions and
get balanced and professional answers, without the possibility of getting
enflamed in personal battles. Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@...>
To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy


>
> Dave, one could say the same of many lists.  Please try to take the high
road.
>
> For those not familiar with this issue perhaps a little background is in
order.
> There are mailing lists operated by some people in a fashion that doesn't
always
> fulfill the expectations of others.  For example, the syndic8 list I
mentioned
> is moderated by myself and others.  In the past that list has requested
that
> vendors avoid using it to shill their products.  Fill in the blanks as to
the
> vendor in question.
>
> Conversely there are support that miss the mark as well.  Those lists are
often
> micromanaged by their operators such that messages are deleted, censored
through
> moderation and various people are blocked from participation.
>
> I'll refrain from further commentary as the discussion would only inflame
> various bruised egos.
>
> -Bill Kearney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
> To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
>
>
> > Bill does that mean you're going to open that list to all who want to
> > participate, or will it remain a gated community that you control? Dave
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@...>
> > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> >
> >
> > > There is the syndic8 yahoogroup list.  That has some aspects of
advocacy.
> > In
> > > that the Syndic8.com database of RSS feeds has been driven by a
> > considerable
> > > amount of advocacy work.
> > >
> > > What are you looking to fulfill?
> > >
> > > -Bill Kearney
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Doug Ransom" <doug_ransom@...>
> > > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:22 PM
> > > Subject: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Bill, learn to killfile. It'll be good for your blood-pressure.

Hi all,

I recently came across [1] a feed [2] that attempts to use white space for
formatting within it's description element.  This was raised during an unrelated
thread [3].

The only way to do this, according the XML specs, is to add an
xml:space="preserve" attribute to the element.

But, from what I recall, no readers support this attribute.  What should they do
and what behavior should be inferred if they did see that attribute?

Thanks,
Bill Kearney

[1] http://www.syndic8.com/feedinfo.php?FeedID=19823
[2] http://forum.manual-forum.de/rss/3.rdf
[3] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndic8/message/2373

Dave, you're being rather difficult today, aren't you?

The user asked for a place, one was offered.  There's nothing forcing anyone to
use it.

What can be stated, however, is that the Syndic8.com service has accepted any
and all feeds desiring to be listed.  It can also be stated that the particpants
in the effort have volunteered tremendous amounts of time offering balanced and
professional answers.  As such they participate in using the Syndic8 mailing
list.  A user looking for balanced assistance would certainly do well to
consider using that list.

There are, of course, many others like syndication, aggregator,
reallySimpleSyndication and rss-dev. I'm simply making mention of one such list.

Why do you insist on waging a personal battle here?  Do you have some axe to
grind today?

-Bill Kearney


> Then the Syndic8 mail list, as long as it is not open to all, is not a good
> choice for the advocacy work for RSS. It would be a good idea to have such a
> list, a place where people wanting to implement RSS could ask questions and
> get balanced and professional answers, without the possibility of getting
> enflamed in personal battles. Dave
>
> >
> > Dave, one could say the same of many lists.  Please try to take the high
> road.
> >
> > For those not familiar with this issue perhaps a little background is in
> order.
> > There are mailing lists operated by some people in a fashion that doesn't
> always
> > fulfill the expectations of others.  For example, the syndic8 list I
> mentioned
> > is moderated by myself and others.  In the past that list has requested
> that
> > vendors avoid using it to shill their products.  Fill in the blanks as to
> the
> > vendor in question.
> >
> > Conversely there are support that miss the mark as well.  Those lists are
> often
> > micromanaged by their operators such that messages are deleted, censored
> through
> > moderation and various people are blocked from participation.
> >
> > I'll refrain from further commentary as the discussion would only inflame
> > various bruised egos.
> >
> > -Bill Kearney
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dave Winer" <dave@...>
> > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 9:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> >
> >
> > > Bill does that mean you're going to open that list to all who want to
> > > participate, or will it remain a gated community that you control? Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@...>
> > > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> > >
> > >
> > > > There is the syndic8 yahoogroup list.  That has some aspects of
> advocacy.
> > > In
> > > > that the Syndic8.com database of RSS feeds has been driven by a
> > > considerable
> > > > amount of advocacy work.
> > > >
> > > > What are you looking to fulfill?
> > > >
> > > > -Bill Kearney
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Doug Ransom" <doug_ransom@...>
> > > > To: <rss-dev@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:22 PM
> > > > Subject: [RSS-DEV] RSS advocacy
> > > >
> > > > > Is there a email list for RSS advocacy?