<shameless-plug>

There's now a SASXSEK postage stamp (valid in the US).
         http://www.zazzle.com/www_sasxsek_org_postage-172451354310111606

</shameless-plug>

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> 1. I've been trying to translate a PDF on Linux on the past
> few days and its really uncomfortable to work with. Could it
> be possible to release a version a little bit more flexible
> on the modification.

Those are actually converted Word documents.  I published them only
in PDF because it preserves all the fonts and formatting.  You may
want to just copy and paste the file into a plain text file, then
send the final product to me so I can format it.


> 2. I would love to read a more-than-a-sentence text in
> SASXSEK or even to watch a little presentation of the
> language on video. I know that you (deinx) still thinks that
> the language isn't ready yet, but it must be a least ready
> for a small presentation or a paragraph on how it should
> sounds. (the schwa sound is very discussable and vague in
> french.)

I haven't done much work on Sasxsek in the past year.  I started to
take a break from it about then, but now my work schedule is taking
up so much of my time I hardly have time for a life of my own.  It's
enough just to keep up with some of these lists.  Eventually I would
like to create more materials.  Videos aren't really possible.  I
don't own or have any access to video equipment.  Even then, I'd
prefer work with someone else on this.  I just hate hearing my own
voice on recordings.

>
> oh, I can't wait to be fluent. I wish there was more tools.
> Like courses online instead of a plain description. (sorry if
> I ask for a lot, I must say I am very enthusiastic about SASXSEK).

I plan on making online courses too.  There just hasn't been enough
time, and I still want to get the vocabulary stable.  It's hard to
keep updating all those reference documents to keep up with changes.
Some very basic semantic concepts are still missing from the lexicon
so it's still hard to create anything right now.

If you really want to start using the language, you still can.  If
you have suggestions to add to the vocabulary, then just let me know
and I'll give them some consideration.

salam!

1. I've been trying to translate a PDF on Linux on the past few days
and its really uncomfortable to work with. Could it be possible to
release a version a little bit more flexible on the modification.


2. I would love to read a more-than-a-sentence text in SASXSEK or even
to watch a little presentation of the language on video. I know that
you (deinx) still thinks that the language isn't ready yet, but it
must be a least ready for a small presentation or a paragraph on how
it should sounds. (the schwa sound is very discussable and vague in
french.)


oh, I can't wait to be fluent. I wish there was more tools. Like
courses online instead of a plain description. (sorry if I ask for a
lot, I must say I am very enthusiastic about SASXSEK).

Narfi

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> Si quieres, te puede ayudar en espanol tambìen.

I may need a proofreader, but I should be able to handle the
translation myself.

BTW: Spanish only uses the acute so it should be "también".

--- In sasxsek@yahoogroups.com, "deinx nxtxr" <deinx.nxtxr@...> wrote:
>
> > [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee
>
> > I might translate your work, if you want to. I could be a nice way
> to
> > learn sasxsek. I have a good friend that is a professional
> translator,
> > I can make her correct the mistakes I make. That is only I have
> the
> > permission.
> >
> > narfi
> >
> > BTW : She is 100% fluent in Esperanto. I could ask her to
> translate
> > your work in Esperanto. That way, you could attract more people
> that
> > are already interested in World Auxiliary Languages.
>
> That's great.  I would like to see as many translations as possible,
> so I welcome the help.  Any other languages would be good.  I
> started an Esperanto translation a long time ago but the work was
> interuppted and I lost track of it somewhere.  Spanish is likely to
> be the next thing I publish, mainly because I'm studying it in the
> hopes of becoming fluent.
>


Si quieres, te puede ayudar en espanol tambìen.

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> salam!
>
> I would like to use "should" in sasxsek.
>
> Ex: You should learn sasxsek. I would be nice of you.

Conditional phrases are introduced with "ua" (=if), and the
subordinate clause with "fa" (=then).

	 ua fo sapib li sasxsek fa fo doz.
	 if you know-besome NAME Sasxsek then you be-nice.

I don't have a word yet that would translate like the English
"should" which isn't really conditional, it's a modal indicating
some type of recommendation or obligation.

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> I might translate your work, if you want to. I could be a nice way
to
> learn sasxsek. I have a good friend that is a professional
translator,
> I can make her correct the mistakes I make. That is only I have
the
> permission.
>
> narfi
>
> BTW : She is 100% fluent in Esperanto. I could ask her to
translate
> your work in Esperanto. That way, you could attract more people
that
> are already interested in World Auxiliary Languages.

That's great.  I would like to see as many translations as possible,
so I welcome the help.  Any other languages would be good.  I
started an Esperanto translation a long time ago but the work was
interuppted and I lost track of it somewhere.  Spanish is likely to
be the next thing I publish, mainly because I'm studying it in the
hopes of becoming fluent.

salam!

I would like to use "should" in sasxsek.

Ex: You should learn sasxsek. I would be nice of you.

I might translate your work, if you want to. I could be a nice way to
learn sasxsek. I have a good friend that is a professional translator,
I can make her correct the mistakes I make. That is only I have the
permission.

narfi

BTW : She is 100% fluent in Esperanto. I could ask her to translate
your work in Esperanto. That way, you could attract more people that
are already interested in World Auxiliary Languages.

--- In sasxsek@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Nutter" <li_sasxsek@...> wrote:
>
>
> > [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee
>
> > For *many, many* weeks, I have been present on #sasxsek on the
> > Freenode server without seeing anybody. I think IRC is a very
> > efficient way to have disscusion about our interests.
> >
> > My nickname is Närfee and I look foward to have a chat with you.
>
> Unfortunately IRC is a live chat.  E-mail and blogs are able to
> allow discussions without the need for real time.
>
I'm not saying to cut any communication on this group :)

I'm only telling you guys that it would be nice to have a realtime
conversation.

Närfee Reïtell

P.S.
I like the idea of a blog. once my level of sasxsek is good enough,
I'll make one.

have a great day !

> FWIW: I've mentioned this on my other groups, but I've run out of
> patience with Yahoo.  They have been making a lot of (mainly
> cosmetic) changes, none of which add functionality of any kind, but
> all of them have added bugs and made the systems harder to use,
> along with the overdose of commercialism.

I don't notice. For me, this here is a mailing list, I'm writing this as a
plain-text e-mail in Outlook Express :-)

> Telling us that is not going to help. Spambots regularly
> spoof people's
> e-mail addresses and send spam to mailing lists that way. I
> have got spam
> from "myself" several times! Probably the member is
> completely innocent or
> has, in the worst case, a computer infected with a spambot.

This one was clearly intentional.  Spambots generally spoof or leave
the "To:" field empty.  In this case there was clearly a list of
names.  It wasn't sent to the list, but I was able to find the
offender by the fact it went to the moderator address for this list.
There's a small chance it could be an infected computer, but that
too is enough reason to dump someone's account. We still don't need
that malware harvesting addresses and e-mailing everyone.

FWIW: I've mentioned this on my other groups, but I've run out of
patience with Yahoo.  They have been making a lot of (mainly
cosmetic) changes, none of which add functionality of any kind, but
all of them have added bugs and made the systems harder to use,
along with the overdose of commercialism.  I really hate blogs, but
that may be where I'm going to take this list now that I have the
sasxsek.org site set up.

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> For *many, many* weeks, I have been present on #sasxsek on the
> Freenode server without seeing anybody. I think IRC is a very
> efficient way to have disscusion about our interests.
>
> My nickname is Närfee and I look foward to have a chat with you.

Unfortunately IRC is a live chat.  E-mail and blogs are able to
allow discussions without the need for real time.

salam!

For *many, many* weeks, I have been present on #sasxsek on the
Freenode server without seeing anybody. I think IRC is a very
efficient way to have disscusion about our interests.

My nickname is Närfee and I look foward to have a chat with you.

Telling us that is not going to help. Spambots regularly spoof people's
e-mail addresses and send spam to mailing lists that way. I have got spam
from "myself" several times! Probably the member is completely innocent or
has, in the worst case, a computer infected with a spambot.

I just banned a member from this group who spammed me.  I have NO
TOLERANCE AT ALL for spammers and others who tresspass electronically
upon my space.  Not only will it get you banned from my groups, but
you will also be reported to your ISP with a recommendation that your
connection be terminated.

Just an FYI to let everyone know that I've set up a new host for the
Sasxsek website on the new domain.   I'm switching to a wiki so it
will take some time to get all the material on there.  Right now about
the only thing available are the PDF's for download.

In the long run, this new site will help as I start adding languages
other than just English.

--- In sasxsek@yahoogroups.com, Florent Garet <florentgaret@...> wrote:
>
> <li_sasxsek@...> wrote:
> > Not quite that simple.  With a little work, I could easily
> > import the DB tables into SQL, but Wikimedia will have no clue
> > what to do with them unless I make some custom scripts.  That
> > will take some time, which is something I have very little of
> > these days thanks to a job that eats up 50+ hours per week, and
> > seldom gives me a chance to be home.
>
> I understand. I also installed my own mediawiki, and I saw that the
DB structure is rather complex.
>
> However, mediawiki has a lot of extensions. Maybe there is an import
tool that fits your needs? I will have a look and tell you if I find
something.

There are only a couple of things holding me up right now other than
time.  Firstly I need to look into the security features.  I want to
set it up so I'm the only one to edit articles, but I do want visitors
to be able to use the discussion portions, ultimately to replace this
group on Yahoo.  The other is that I still need to explore the
multilingual capabilities of Mediwiki to make sure it will do all that
I want it to do.  The main reason I whose MW was because I liked the
way Wikipedia and Wiktionary handle multiple languages.

--- In sasxsek@yahoogroups.com, "narfee" <narfee@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, thanks ! (it's getting clearer everyday )
>
> BTW, I found I'm hungry...
>
> mo iesxuani.
>
> great day !
>

Your sentence has no verb.  The best way for "I'm hungry" is "mo uan
ies" (I want to eat), or even "mo uan iesare" (I want food).  You
could possibly put it as "mo iesxuan" (I eat-want/I hunger) which is
almost the same things but linking "eat" and "desire" into a single
unit which could be defined as "being hungry".   The "-i" suffix only
qualifiers, which means there needs to be something to qualify, so you
might also say "mo iesxuani ren" (I am a hungry person), or just "mo
iesxuane" (I am an eat-wanter).

There is often more than one way to say something in Sasxsek, which
one would be a matter of emphasis and/or style.

<li_sasxsek@...> wrote:
> Not quite that simple.  With a little work, I could easily
> import the DB tables into SQL, but Wikimedia will have no clue
> what to do with them unless I make some custom scripts.  That
> will take some time, which is something I have very little of
> these days thanks to a job that eats up 50+ hours per week, and
> seldom gives me a chance to be home.

I understand. I also installed my own mediawiki, and I saw that the DB structure
is rather complex.

However, mediawiki has a lot of extensions. Maybe there is an import tool that
fits your needs? I will have a look and tell you if I find something.

Florent.

Oh, thanks ! (it's getting clearer everyday )

BTW, I found I'm hungry...

mo iesxuani.

great day !

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of narfee

> What is the difference between
>
> mo iesxuan.
>
> and
>
> mo uanxies.

Actually the first would be saying "I am hunger."  To say "I am
hungry" would be "mo uan ies" (lit: I want {verb} eat {object}).
Sasxsek compounds are head last, but declarative sentences are
SVO.


> dumxmacino
>
> and
>
> macinxdumo
>
>
> Do we have to base ourselves on the english language ? like...
I
> want-eat... or there's a specific order like I eat-want.


> Hunger is iesxuan wich means I eat-want

"want" as a noun head with "eat" modifying it so that it refers
to a specific type of desire, that is the desire to eat.



> but computer is dumxmacino wich is think-machine...

Again, head last.  Semantically though this could work as
"think-machine" or "machine-think-er".  I suppose at this point
the selection of the head would be more emphatic.

BTW:  It would be "dume" (=thinker), not "dumo" (=thought).
"-e" is the agentive noun.  The best way to explain "-o" would
be to loosely relate it to the Mandarin "-zi (?)", and it could
correspond to several differnt endings of E-o like "-ado",
"-ido" or "-ajxo".

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Florent Garet

> If you use your own server and want multi-language support,
> Mediawiki will work fine. Also I think you can convert your
> .MBD file to an .SQL one, directly usable by the wiki.

Not quite that simple.  With a little work, I could easily
import the DB tables into SQL, but Wikimedia will have no clue
what to do with them unless I make some custom scripts.  That
will take some time, which is something I have very little of
these days thanks to a job that eats up 50+ hours per week, and
seldom gives me a chance to be home.

If you use your own server and want multi-language support, Mediawiki will work
fine. Also I think you can convert your .MBD file to an .SQL one, directly
usable by the wiki.

Florent.

salam!

What is the difference between

mo iesxuan.

and

mo uanxies.

or

dumxmacino

and

macinxdumo


Do we have to base ourselves on the english language ? like... I
want-eat... or there's a specific order like I eat-want.

Hunger is iesxuan wich means I eat-want

but computer is dumxmacino wich is think-machine...

I think you understand the concept...

Narfee Reïtell.

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Florent Garet

> <li_sasxsek@...> wrote:
> > The only thing I'm really still contemplating is how to set
> up the online dictionary.  I can either have a searchable one
> like I currenly have, or I can set up something like
> Wiktionary with entries for each Sasxsek word, followed by
> translations into multiple languages.  This will use the
> wiki's search function to find the appropriate article.  I
> may even have both concurrently for a while.
>
> Your current dictionary is much faster than the clumsy
> Wiktionary. In the other hand, with a wiki it's easy to
> update content, change layout, and add pictures.

The current dictionary is also stored in an M$-Access .MDB file,
being pulled from a script on IIS, on a server that I pay annual
fees to use.  The new site is a Linux machine running Apache
sitting in my living room to play movies, music and streaming
video so there's no recurring financial obligations.  That and
it fits in to my de-Microsoftification project.  Apache is also
much faster and much more flexible.  Oh, and the best part of
all, it's free.  Right now I have these options.

	 1.  Leave the current dictionary and use a redirect to
make it appear like it's part of the new site.  The current
dictionary may be quick, but it still needs a lot of work to
incorporate multiple languages.

	 2.  Rewrite the entire backend for Apache.
Time-consuming but may be worth it in the long run.

	 3.  Just use Mediawiki and create articles for each
dictionary heading then let the search function of the wiki do
the work.  This is where I'm leaning right now because it will
get things up and running much quicker.  I could always work on
(2) while this is in place, and have (1) working while I do
this.  The other nice feature of the wiki is being able to put
up articles for each language.  Eventually I want to have this
site in as many languages as possible.

<li_sasxsek@...> wrote:
> The only thing I'm really still contemplating is how to set up the online
dictionary.  I can either have a searchable one like I currenly have, or I can
set up something like Wiktionary with entries for each Sasxsek word, followed by
translations into multiple languages.  This will use the wiki's search function
to find the appropriate article.  I may even have both concurrently for a while.

Your current dictionary is much faster than the clumsy Wiktionary. In the other
hand, with a wiki it's easy to update content, change layout, and add pictures.

--
Florent

As previously announced, I now have a new domain, sasxsek.org, where I will be
moving all Sasxsek-related materials.  I've installed MediWiki software on the
server, and so far I'm satisfied it can do most of what I want, including
multiple languages.

The only thing I'm really still contemplating is how to set up the online
dictionary.  I can either have a searchable one like I currenly have, or I can
set up something like Wiktionary with entries for each Sasxsek word, followed by
translations into multiple languages.  This will use the wiki's search function
to find the appropriate article.  I may even have both concurrently for a while.

Feedback?

Just an FYI:

I've just registered the sasxsek.org domain which I intend to be the new home
for the Sasxsek website.  I have only barely started creating the new site so
for right now it's just a redirect to the old site which will remain until I
have everything up to speed.  I'm moving it from IIS to a Linux box running
Apache so there's a lot of backend conversion that will need to be done.  I'm
also considering the idea of using Mediawiki for the whole thing, though I'm not
sure how well that would work with the online dictionary.  I may just make a
Wiktionary-style dictionary.  I'm also hoping to move the discussion group from
Yahoo to my own blog.  There still aren't any sasxsek.org e-mail addresses, so
I'll let others know when that is ready too, and may offer e-mail addresses to
those who are learning to use the language.

> [mailto:sasxsek@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Marjanovic

> > sapa = to be known
> > sapare = that which is known > knowledge, fact
> > sapibe = that which comes to know > learner, student
> > sap(er)i = knowing
> > sapari = known
> > sapo = manifestation of knowledge > information, facts
> > sape = one who knows
> > sapisi = knowing a lot > wise, knowledgeable
> > sapimi = knowing little > ignorant
> > sapise = one who knows a lot > wise one
> > sapibuk = institution for learning > school
> > sapik = knowledge (in the general sense)
>
> I know it's... very late for that, but may I suggest a more isolating
> approach? For example, making the agentive suffix identical  to the root for
> "person/people" or replacing it by that word altogether, the causative
> suffix by "make" or "cause" or suchlike, the augmentative by "big" and the
> diminutive by "small"? In other words, if "one who knows a lot" can be a
> "much-know-man", why shouldn't they be?


That was considered but these features are too common, and I wanted to keep the
syllable count down so I used a system of short suffixes.  An agent may not be a
"person", it could be an animal or even a thing, especially when applied to
statives (saf=white; safe=something that is white, "white one").  And just
because a "person" is attached to a word, doesn't make him the agent.  Would
"attack-person" be the attacker or the victim of the attack?  This way the roles
are always clear.  Causing, becoming and the passive are an important part of
the derivative system because the help reduce the need for lexical roots. The
suffixes "-is" and "-im" indicate a level of magnitude which I wouldn't want to
confuse with physical size. The only part of the system I hesitated on, were the
sex endings.  Originally I planned on just adjectives for "male" and "female"
but needed a shorter way to mark sex which is helpful for animal names where
it's often important.

One of the nice things about E-o is its word-building system with the suffixes
so I decided to make something similar but simpler because E-o's system has too
much semantic overlap.  And unlike E-o, the S:S: affixes are not standalone
words.