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Hello all,

A friend of mine just sent me a link to this article.  I thought it
might be of interest to many in this group.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/science/20angier.html?
pagewanted=1&_r=1&emc=eta1
In `Geek Chic' and Obama, New Hope for Lifting Women in Science
By NATALIE ANGIER
Published: January 19, 2009

Sara

Hello Melissa.

First, let me congratulate you for listening to your maternal instinct
and putting the well being of your daughter first!

I am sorry to hear about your bad interview experience.  It is sad to
hear of such inappropriate and discriminatory behavior from faculty
members.

Obviously there is still a big need to educate or retire the "old
guard".   Fortunately, those dinosaurs are being replaced by younger
faculty members whom I trust will gradually infuse the universities
with more family oriented policies.

In the mean time, the interview process seems to have worked
perfectly!   Forgive me to sound glib but this department does not
sound like a good work place for someone who cares about his/her
family.  In that sense,  the interview process did work.

I can tell you that not all faculties are so backwards.  My wife
recently interviewed for an academic position and faced no problems
when she requested a  break in the afternoon to visit with our young
child.

I do hear that after your recent interview experience you feel that
the well being of your child and getting the job might be mutually
exclusive and are rethinking strategies to maximize your chances of
getting the job.

I think hiding the child will only set you up for failure if you were
to get the job in a family adverse department.

I encourage you to stand in your truth and to remember that you do not
have to be apologetic in requesting a short time off during the day to
care for your daughter.   With that said, you do not have to give too
much detail about your child and why she needs you.  Your parenting
style is your own and giving too much details only opens you to
criticism from people with different values.   One strategy that might
alleviate undue judgment is to simply refer to your child as "my baby"
or "my infant" and request time to nurse your child. (nursing is not
limited to breast feeding.  extract from dictionary.com: "to feed and
tend in infancy", "to look after carefully so as to promote growth,
development etc...").   You can also reassure the interviewers that by
the time you start your job, your child will be old enough to "...
fill in the blank...".

I wish you a wonderful and prosperous new year (which includes finding
the perfect job for you and your family!)
- Christian

Hi Melissa,

Wow - that is quite a story.  I don't have any expertise in the
matter, but using that as a reason not to hire you and telling you
that was the reason seems unethical at best and illegal at worst.  It
seems especially unfair as the job you were applying for most likely
won't start until Fall 2009 when your child will be considerably older
and less dependent upon your time.  Her needs at 18 months shouldn't
be considered to reflect her needs 9 months from now.

I just had the complete opposite experience with a really positive
interview at a very large, public, research university.  My son is
still nursing and I also didn't want to go the entire day plus out to
dinner without giving him a chance to nurse.  I asked the search
committee if my husband could bring him to campus in the mid-afternoon
for a half hour nursing break and they gave me a 45 minute break and
they made sure the dinner was early so I could get back to the hotel
at a reasonable time.  They also put me in a hotel right across from
the university so my husband could easily walk over.  They made every
effort to accommodate my family and me and I was extremely impressed.
  There was another young mother on the search committee and that may
have helped my situation.  Finally, I have been offered the position,
so I know that my nursing break was not viewed negatively.  Or, if it
was, it was not enough to dissuade the committee from offering me the
job.

All that said, I was nervous about asking for the time because I
didn't want to appear "weak" or whatever the misconception of mothers
is, but I figured that if they weren't willing to give me a half hour
nursing break, then I wouldn't want to work there.  Small consolation
when it seems that was the reason that you didn't get offered the job.

All I can say is that I really hope that your story is the exception
and that search committees and departments are realizing the
importance and positive impact that a candidate's happy family life
can have on their job performance.  I really hope we are at a tipping
point or beyond.

I'd love to hear others' experiences with this to find out which of
our experiences was the exception.

Best and Happy New Year to all,
Carolyn


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "melissalucash"
<mslucash@...> wrote:
>
> I had a negative experience with an academic interview just last month
> and want to get advice on how to prevent this problem in the future.
>
> Knowing my interview would be about 13 hours long, I asked the search
> committee for 2 half-hour breaks to "spend time with my young
> daughter".  I didn't feel like my 18 month old daughter would be okay
> without seeing me for 13 hours straight.
>
> Needless to say I didn't get the job.  They told me that my desire to
> spend time with my family on my interview day indicated that I wasn't
> interested in the job.
>
> What should I do in the future?  Should I forgo breaks and hope my
> daughter will be okay?  Should I ask for breaks and not give a reason?
> I can't completely hide the fact that I have a family because I took
> time off after completing my Ph.D. to have my daughter.
>
> Thanks for publicizing this group in your article Sara!
>

I had a negative experience with an academic interview just last month
and want to get advice on how to prevent this problem in the future.

Knowing my interview would be about 13 hours long, I asked the search
committee for 2 half-hour breaks to "spend time with my young
daughter".  I didn't feel like my 18 month old daughter would be okay
without seeing me for 13 hours straight.

Needless to say I didn't get the job.  They told me that my desire to
spend time with my family on my interview day indicated that I wasn't
interested in the job.

What should I do in the future?  Should I forgo breaks and hope my
daughter will be okay?  Should I ask for breaks and not give a reason?
I can't completely hide the fact that I have a family because I took
time off after completing my Ph.D. to have my daughter.

Thanks for publicizing this group in your article Sara!

Hello Ryan,

I never hid my family during my two job interviews (and I was offered
both so I'm pretty sure it wasn't held against me). For the second
interview, I was two months pregnant, and although I did not
specifically say that I was pregnant during the interview, I was open
about the fact that we were hoping to have another.

Family did not come up during the actual meetings with the search
committee or at the faculty meeting, and though I did not include a
family slide in my presentation, I was not hesitant to talk about my
family during lunches, dinners and mixers. It was a very open and
honest process that reassured me that it was a place that I could work
and would be accepting of me and my family.

Although, there were some surprise expressed when I appeared with a 2
month old, my dept head and the other faculty have been thoroughly
supportive and all express a sincere fondness for my little boy (who
my husband still brings over in his bike cart to see me on most days
to nurse - he is now 16 mos).

I wish you all the luck with your job search and I really do believe
that having a family will not be a make or break issue.

On that note, I was greatly impressed reading about the 2007 McArthur
recipients and that one had 3 children under 3 and it doesn't seem to
be negatively impacting her career!

http://sciencewomen.blogspot.com/search?q=Yoky+Matsuoka+

Melissa


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "wapusker" <wapusker@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm in the thick of job search right now and just did one interview
> and my approach is to be very up front about having a family and
> including a photo of them in my 'about me' slide at the beginning of
> my talk. I want everyone to know I have a wonderful family supporting
> me and that makes me a better scientist and teacher not worse! My
> philosophy is that a department that won't hire me because I have a
> family is a place I don't want to be! I don't think starting a
> position with my family a secret is a good place to begin -they are
> not a liability and should never and will never be viewed as such.
>
> Best,
> Ryan
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "leah.beche"
> <leah.beche@> wrote:
> >
> > I feel compelled to join this group, as my labmates and I have been
> > having these types of discussions for years!
> >
> > I, too, am interested in the response to this question, particularly
> > for women candidates.  While it is technically illegal for committe
> > members to broach this subject, I find it hard to believe that they
> > would not consider a person's family situation during a search (even
> > if it is done silently by each individual), especially at a R-1
> > university.  That is not to say that you would be discriminated
> > against, but I think that it is pretty difficult to say whether your
> > family situation plays a role in hiring decisions.
> >
> > A practical question for you all...If you are not obviously
> pregnant,
> > but you have a family, do you stay 100% silent about it at an
> > interview?  Only bring it up if it appears that the
> department/certain
> > individuals might be amenable to it (i.e. untenured faculty with
> young
> > kids)?  Or do you try to bring it up so that it isn't a big secret?
> > That is, by addressing it, you verify that it is not a big deal that
> > you have a family, you are dedicated to your profession, etc?
> >
> > cheers,
> > Leah
> >
>

I appreciate hearing about your experiences.  Not having had the
experience of a job interview (yet), I suppose that I did not really
know what to expect.  However, the longer I have been a parent, the
more I have realized that having a family is considered an asset by
most people.

One more question in this line of thought... In Europe it is standard
practice to include your birth date, marital status, and number of
children (and their ages, in some cases) on your CV.  If (for
example), there is a gap in your CV because of maternity leave (or
another family-related issue), is it appropriate in the US to broach
this issue in the job application (either in the cover letter or the
CV, i.e. by noting your family status)?

Many thanks for your opinions.
Leah

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "wapusker" <wapusker@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm in the thick of job search right now and just did one interview
> and my approach is to be very up front about having a family and
> including a photo of them in my 'about me' slide at the beginning of
> my talk. I want everyone to know I have a wonderful family supporting
> me and that makes me a better scientist and teacher not worse! My
> philosophy is that a department that won't hire me because I have a
> family is a place I don't want to be! I don't think starting a
> position with my family a secret is a good place to begin -they are
> not a liability and should never and will never be viewed as such.
>
> Best,
> Ryan
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "leah.beche"
> <leah.beche@> wrote:
> >
> > I feel compelled to join this group, as my labmates and I have been
> > having these types of discussions for years!
> >
> > I, too, am interested in the response to this question, particularly
> > for women candidates.  While it is technically illegal for committe
> > members to broach this subject, I find it hard to believe that they
> > would not consider a person's family situation during a search (even
> > if it is done silently by each individual), especially at a R-1
> > university.  That is not to say that you would be discriminated
> > against, but I think that it is pretty difficult to say whether your
> > family situation plays a role in hiring decisions.
> >
> > A practical question for you all...If you are not obviously
> pregnant,
> > but you have a family, do you stay 100% silent about it at an
> > interview?  Only bring it up if it appears that the
> department/certain
> > individuals might be amenable to it (i.e. untenured faculty with
> young
> > kids)?  Or do you try to bring it up so that it isn't a big secret?
> > That is, by addressing it, you verify that it is not a big deal that
> > you have a family, you are dedicated to your profession, etc?
> >
> > cheers,
> > Leah
> >
>

I'm in the thick of job search right now and just did one interview
and my approach is to be very up front about having a family and
including a photo of them in my 'about me' slide at the beginning of
my talk. I want everyone to know I have a wonderful family supporting
me and that makes me a better scientist and teacher not worse! My
philosophy is that a department that won't hire me because I have a
family is a place I don't want to be! I don't think starting a
position with my family a secret is a good place to begin -they are
not a liability and should never and will never be viewed as such.

Best,
Ryan

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "leah.beche"
<leah.beche@...> wrote:
>
> I feel compelled to join this group, as my labmates and I have been
> having these types of discussions for years!
>
> I, too, am interested in the response to this question, particularly
> for women candidates.  While it is technically illegal for committe
> members to broach this subject, I find it hard to believe that they
> would not consider a person's family situation during a search (even
> if it is done silently by each individual), especially at a R-1
> university.  That is not to say that you would be discriminated
> against, but I think that it is pretty difficult to say whether your
> family situation plays a role in hiring decisions.
>
> A practical question for you all...If you are not obviously
pregnant,
> but you have a family, do you stay 100% silent about it at an
> interview?  Only bring it up if it appears that the
department/certain
> individuals might be amenable to it (i.e. untenured faculty with
young
> kids)?  Or do you try to bring it up so that it isn't a big secret?
> That is, by addressing it, you verify that it is not a big deal that
> you have a family, you are dedicated to your profession, etc?
>
> cheers,
> Leah
>

Hey Ryan,

It's great hearing from a Dad!  And that feeling of being torn between
work and home is a universal one for working parents.  Maybe not so
much for the working (mostly) dads who came in the generations
previous to ours, but it's certainly a reality now.  It's great that
you are allowing yourself to spend more time with your child and
making work not as crazy of a priority as it might be.  But I hear
that it's a hard trade-off.

I am wondering if aspects of caring for your child while working are
harder for dads on this one level because society doesn't expect dads
to provide the same level of child care as it expects from women.
Therefore, if you are taking time away from working to be with your
child(ren), then it's viewed as somehow "less" than if you were a mom.
  Does this make sense?  Moms are STILL expected to provide the bulk of
care and so maybe are given some more slack whereas dads are expected
to work and leave the child rearing to the women.  Or perhaps I'm
completely wrong and it's just hard for EVERYONE to find some
reasonable balance.

Do universities have options for postponing tenure if you are a new
dad?  Or is that reserved strictly for new moms?

Anyway, thanks for contributing - I'd love to hear more thoughts from
the science dads out there.  That's why I called the site science and
families instead of science and mothering!

Best,
Carolyn



--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "wapusker" <wapusker@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
> I'm a proud father of a two year old boy and have another boy or girl
> on the way any day now, while doing my postdoc, finishing up
> publishing my phd work, doing some consulting, and actively looking
> for academic positions, so I've very much appreciated reading what
> you all have to say. I thought I was sleep deprived before all of
> this family stuff started! Compared with many of the posts I've read,
> I feel pretty lucky in that my wife is a stay at home mom and keeps
> things rolling along really well but I continue to struggle with
> feeling like when I'm at work I should be at home and when I'm home
> feeling like I need to be working, so finding the balance is an on-
> going struggle. The upside is that all I  used to do is work, now I
> actually make more time for the good stuff and having children has
> certainly reminded me of what is important in life. Work isn't my
> life anymore, its something I very much enjoy and try to succeed at
> but its not an obsession. Some folks at work are very understanding
> of my situation but for most, the tolerance is pretty limited and
> there are a lot of workaholics around that answer every email within
> an hour even on weekends (and expect the same) and ask for something
> friday afternoon and expect it monday morning. But the upside is I'm
> now much better at cheerfully saying no and expecting reasonable
> deadlines and I'm learning to not be apologetic about it. All in all,
> I couldn't be happier, though if we made the days just two hours
> longer that would be useful...
>
> Best,
> Ryan.
>

Alisa, my son has asthma and allergies as well, and it definitely
adds another dimension to the balancing act.  It is a topic (like the
field work topic--thanks for the tip on your article, Maura!) that
sometimes complicates things so much that it almost warrants another
whole article.  Thanks for sharing your story.

Sara


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, Alisa Ramakrishnan
<aramakris@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> How fun to read posts about what people are doing! I thought Sara's
article was extremely well-written. One of the problems I've had with
some articles that deal with parenting and research is that they
don't always address what happens when you happen to have a baby who
needs hospitalization and/or is chronically ill (e.g. reflux,
asthma), or if you have complications during delivery. Sara's article
covers those situations nicely.
> I had a tough time with my baby, as she had milk allergies, reflux,
and asthma, rejected breastfeeding, and I had complications with
delivery and recovery. I didn't have family who could help, or the
funds to afford a nanny or babysitter, or a husband who had time to
help. Having a support group is quite essential, as is mentioned
frequently in all the articles I've read.
> Luckily, I was almost done collecting data by the time she came
along, and I had an undergraduate who was able to finish my genetic
analyses for me while I moved across the country to be with my
husband (who was doing an internship) and have the baby. This was my
situation 2.5 years ago, and my PhD was only saved from destruction
by an advisor who paid me a stipend for one year during which I
hardly was able to work at all. He has supported me while I was only
able to work during naptimes, with no child-care support available.
> With an amazing advisor, I've been able to continue writing, and
though my pace is extremely slow, I'm making progress, and things are
getting much easier now that my daughter is 2.5 yrs old and is
growing out of her allergies. We're also more settled, now that my
husband has a permanent job, though it's taken us overseas. With
preschool, a little financial security, and an amazing advisor (and
supportive committee as well), I can see the light at the end of the
tunnel.
>
> Overall, I just wanted to reiterate the points made by other
people: try to have childcare assistance, a supportive work
environment, and be prepared to be flexible. It seems to me that many
schools are quite supportive, and even in extreme situations, you
don't have to give up either education or family, if you want both.
> Cheers,
> Alisa
>
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@ yahoogroups. com, "sescanga"
<sescanga@ .>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
writing up
> > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help
from a
> > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > thoughts people have posted.
> >
> > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
> > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end
of
> > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
> > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
draft
> > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had
to
> > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin
of
> > ESA), and then joined this group.
> >
> > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
article)
> > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
provided
> > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
issues
> > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing
my
> > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
> > keen interest in the topic.
> >
> > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > http://sciencecaree rs.sciencemag. org/career_ development/
previous_ issue
> > s/articles/2800/ scientists_ as_parents_ feature_index/
> >
> > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
> > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
further
> > fruitful discussions in this group.
> >
> > Sara
> >
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Hi Sara,

I did bring my son into the field when he was about one and a half
and he's been out with his dad catching birds.  He loves it and he
tells his friends at school, my mommy works in wetlands and my daddy
works with scrub jays.  The kids love having us come in to talk about
our jobs.  I can tell that my son notices nature a lot because we
expose him to it.
I don't really take him in the field a lot because of the harsh
conditions and when I go out, I just want to get things done.  I
guess I'm lucky because I live really close to my field site and so I
can go out and do eight hours of field work when I need to and my
husband can pick him up from school (he goes 8-3). It's such a
balancing act, but one thing I try to be good about is working a six
to eight hour day and then calling it quites.  My husband is not so
good about that, but I find I can get a lot done. When my son was
under two though, things were much harder because  he refused to take
a bottle so I couldn't be away from him a lot.  At that point I had a
babysitter come to my house and I didn't do much field work then.  I
find it really inspiring to hear people bring their infants into the
field and make it work.


Betsey

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@...>
wrote:
>
> Betsey,
>
> We're at the same stage of our research--I have two chapters done
and
> will defend this spring too!  You must have had some experience
> bringing your son into the field too?  I agree that it is
reassuring
> to read the stories and experiences on this board and am so
thankful
> that Carolyn got it started!
>
> Sara
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "boughton.elizabeth"
> <boughton.elizabeth@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > I just read Sara's article and joined this group. Sara, thank you
> for
> > writing the article! It feels wonderfully reassuring to find
other
> > scientist moms out there.  My story is that I started my PhD with
a
> 7
> > month old baby.  The first two years were really hard. But, I was
> > able to complete my field work and am now writing my dissertation-

> my
> > son is four and a half years old now and its much easier. I can't
> > believe he'll be starting kindergarten next year! My husband and
I
> > work together but also had full time care when my son turned 1.5
> > years old.  Before that I did similar to what Carolyn did with
> going
> > in part time and having a babysitter at the house. I agree with
> Sara
> > and Carolyn that having a baby in your life makes you much more
> > efficient.  Now that I'm completing my degree...I'll be defending
> in
> > March...and I have two chapters complete, my husband and I
decided
> we
> > wanted to have another baby (our last one).  I'm just wondering
> when
> > I should tell my advisor I am pregnant; at this point I'm only
> three
> > weeks.  My advisor and I still have some field work we are
> > collaborating on.  I think he will be supportive because he loves
> > children and has two of his own, but at the same time I still
have
> > misgivings about letting him down because it will cause some
> > inconvenience.
> >
> > Its nice to hear everyone's stories and encouragement!
> >
> > Betsey
> >
> >
> > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle"
<kurle@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Flore
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are
> > through
> > > your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.
> > >
> > > It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to
have
> a
> > > child as to how things will fall into place regarding your
career
> > and
> > > work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and
> found
> > out
> > > that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really
> amazed
> > > and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as
much
> as
> > > possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated
> the
> > > power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.
That
> > > said, I was also grateful
> > > to have my work because it was and continues to be a very
> fulfilling
> > > aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work
and
> > it's
> > > a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse
> > yourself
> > > in science during work time.
> > >
> > > My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I
was
> > > pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
> > > managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born
so
> > > that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.
I
> > was
> > > able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
> > > supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time,
and,
> > > after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
> > > hours/week.
> > >
> > > Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
> > > part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-
> > parents
> > > and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main
thing
> > I've
> > > done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
> > > extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email
> > correspondence
> > > is WAY down).
> > >
> > > Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
> > > partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open
> to
> > the
> > > experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try
> hard
> > to
> > > carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your
career.
> > > Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write
> > really
> > > helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be
> close,
> > but
> > > still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside
the
> > > time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the
task
> of
> > > writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner
> > comes
> > > in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is
a
> lot
> > > easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come
> > attend
> > > to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start
> back
> > to
> > > working while still being close for your baby.
> > >
> > > My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
> > > academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.
> They
> > > worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but
ultimately,
> > > they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me
> with
> > > great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I
> had
> > > trouble working during my first trimester because I was
exhausted
> > and
> > > felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My
current
> > > post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting
> his
> > > first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
> > > part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are
the
> > sorts
> > > of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
> > > becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it
would
> > have
> > > been possible to have a child and continue in academia.
> > >
> > > We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
> > > career after the post-doc.
> > >
> > > Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away
> from
> > > being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
> > > delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out
> here
> > > going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to
be
> > > fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
> > > encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and
as
> we
> > > continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists
> who
> > > also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a
tipping
> > point
> > > and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate
> students,
> > it
> > > will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families
> taken
> > > into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my
> > hopeful
> > > perspective!
> > >
> > > Best to everyone,
> > > Carolyn
> > >
> > > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
> > > <viard_cretat_flore@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everybody and especially Sara,
> > > >
> > > > I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment
> (and
> > by
> > > > the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for
> > young
> > > > scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a
> > baby, it
> > > > is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to
work
> > while
> > > > the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> > > > workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must
> leave
> > > > their work early because of their children. Most of my
> colleagues
> > also
> > > > waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a
> > family, so
> > > > they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years
> old
> > (so
> > > > will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have
finished
> my
> > PhD
> > > > this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find
a
> > post
> > > > doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must
say
> > these
> > > > three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard
> > considering
> > > > my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at
> all
> > work
> > > > 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day
and
> > only
> > > > could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when
the
> > baby
> > > > will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your
> opinion
> > (the
> > > > message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young
scientist
> and
> > > > having children, and other parents experience it).
> > > >
> > > > Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their
work
> > during
> > > > the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> > > > perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Flore
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga"
> <sescanga@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
> > writing up
> > > > > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with
> help
> > from a
> > > > > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read
> the
> > > > > thoughts people have posted.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family
to
> > be
> > > > > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at
the
> > end of
> > > > > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained
through
> > > > > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal
> > survey,
> > > > > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished
my
> > draft
> > > > > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what
others
> > had to
> > > > > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007,
> > Bulletin of
> > > > > ESA), and then joined this group.
> > > > >
> > > > > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
> > article)
> > > > > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
> > provided
> > > > > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
> > issues
> > > > > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In
> > developing my
> > > > > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women
> shared
> > a
> > > > > keen interest in the topic.
> > > > >
> > > > > Members of this group might also be interested in the
> articles
> > > > > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > > > >
> >
>
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > > > > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the
> > hopes
> > > > > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point
for
> > further
> > > > > fruitful discussions in this group.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sara
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Everyone,
I'm a proud father of a two year old boy and have another boy or girl
on the way any day now, while doing my postdoc, finishing up
publishing my phd work, doing some consulting, and actively looking
for academic positions, so I've very much appreciated reading what
you all have to say. I thought I was sleep deprived before all of
this family stuff started! Compared with many of the posts I've read,
I feel pretty lucky in that my wife is a stay at home mom and keeps
things rolling along really well but I continue to struggle with
feeling like when I'm at work I should be at home and when I'm home
feeling like I need to be working, so finding the balance is an on-
going struggle. The upside is that all I  used to do is work, now I
actually make more time for the good stuff and having children has
certainly reminded me of what is important in life. Work isn't my
life anymore, its something I very much enjoy and try to succeed at
but its not an obsession. Some folks at work are very understanding
of my situation but for most, the tolerance is pretty limited and
there are a lot of workaholics around that answer every email within
an hour even on weekends (and expect the same) and ask for something
friday afternoon and expect it monday morning. But the upside is I'm
now much better at cheerfully saying no and expecting reasonable
deadlines and I'm learning to not be apologetic about it. All in all,
I couldn't be happier, though if we made the days just two hours
longer that would be useful...

Best,
Ryan.

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, lisa ellsworth
<lisaellsworth@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all -
> I'm glad to see that this group is up and running!  It's
encouraging to hear your stories and see how you all have made
furthering your careers and starting a  family work for you.  I
started my Phd just this past summer and had my first baby in
September.  After a month of working where I could fit it in during
naps, my husband, baby, and I are trying to get a routine down that
involves me having enough time to enter this field season's data and
get a manuscript ready for submission.  My son is not a good sleeper,
so when we do get him sleeping soundly, it is a tough decision
whether I'm going to sleep, eat, work, or get some exercise.  Any
suggestions on how you all are balancing baby, work, and life are
helpful!
> I also am lucky to be working for a fantastic advisor who allows me
to be very flexible, and who is willing to support me hiring field
assistants to help with data collection.  I know that this project
would be impossible otherwise.
> Good to hear from you all.
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
> "May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading
to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the
clouds."
> Edward Abbey (1927 - 1989)
>
>
> To: scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com
> From: aramakris@...
> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:30:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [scienceandfamilies] Re: building career and family at
the same time
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             Hi everyone,How fun to read posts about what people are
doing! I thought Sara's article was extremely well-written. One of
the problems I've had with some articles that deal with parenting and
research is that they don't always address what happens when you
happen to have a baby who needs hospitalization and/or is chronically
ill (e.g. reflux, asthma), or if you have complications during
>  delivery. Sara's article covers those situations nicely.I had a
tough time with my baby, as she had milk allergies, reflux, and
asthma, rejected breastfeeding, and I had complications with delivery
and recovery. I didn't have family who could help, or the funds to
afford a nanny or babysitter, or a husband who had time to help.
Having a support group is quite essential, as is mentioned frequently
in all the articles I've read.Luckily, I was almost done collecting
data by the time she came along, and I had an undergraduate who was
able to finish my genetic analyses for me while I moved across the
country to be with my husband (who was doing an internship) and have
the baby. This was my situation 2.5 years ago, and my PhD was only
saved from destruction by an advisor who paid me a stipend for one
year during which I hardly was able to work at all. He has supported
me while I was only able to work during naptimes, with no child-care
support
>  available. With an amazing advisor, I've been able to continue
writing, and though my pace is extremely slow, I'm making progress,
and things are getting much easier now that my daughter is 2.5 yrs
old and is growing out of her allergies. We're also more settled, now
that my husband has a permanent job, though it's taken us overseas.
With preschool, a little financial security, and an amazing advisor
(and supportive committee as well), I can see the light at the end of
the tunnel.
> Overall, I just wanted to reiterate the points made by other
people: try to have childcare assistance, a supportive work
environment, and be prepared to be flexible. It seems to me that many
schools are quite supportive, and even in extreme situations, you
don't have to give up either education or family, if you want
both.Cheers,Alisa
>
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@ yahoogroups. com, "sescanga"
<sescanga@ .>
>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hello,
>
> >
>
> > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
writing up
>
> > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help
from a
>
> > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
>
> > thoughts people have posted.
>
> >
>
> > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
>
> > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end
of
>
> > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
>
> > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
>
> > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
draft
>
> > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had
to
>
> > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin
of
>
> > ESA), and then joined this group.
>
> >
>
> > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
article)
>
> > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
provided
>
> > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
issues
>
> > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing
my
>
> > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
>
> > keen interest in the topic.
>
> >
>
> > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
>
> > Science has compiled on the topic:
>
> > http://sciencecaree rs.sciencemag. org/career_ development/
previous_ issue
>
> > s/articles/2800/ scientists_ as_parents_ feature_index/
>
> >
>
> > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
>
> > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
further
>
> > fruitful discussions in this group.
>
> >
>
> > Sara
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail.
> http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?
ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008
>

Hi everyone

I'm happy to see some new posts and I wanted to share an article that
a friend emailed to me regarding a new book that targets some of the
issues we've been discussing.

The book is called "Motherhood, the Elephant in the Laboratory: Women
Scientists Speak Out" and it's edited by Emily Monosson.  She has a
companion website at:http://sciencemoms.wordpress.com/

It looks really interesting and worth a read (in all of our spare
time!  ha!)

Best to everyone!
Carolyn

Here is the article about the book:

     A new book explores the challenges of balancing motherhood and a
career in science

When toxicologist Rebecca Efroymson flew to Washington D.C. to defend
a grant proposal before a federal agency, she lacked child care
options and was forced to bring along her sick toddler. On the day of
her presentation, she left her feverish, screaming son in a hotel room
in the care of his grandparents, who had taken a train down from
Philadelphia to babysit. Fatigued by lack of sleep, Efroymson admits
that she did not give her best presentation, and her grant was not
funded. "This was the first time that my split life might really have
impacted my work and the viability of my job," she writes.

The "split life" between work and child rearing is one familiar to
millions of working parents. For women, balancing work and family can
present particularly difficult challenges in the highly competitive,
often male-dominated world of research science. Efroymson's story is
one of many told in a timely new book, Motherhood, the Elephant in the
Laboratory: Women Scientists Speak Out.

Editor Emily Monosson has collected the voices and personal stories of
34 mother-scientists working in various fields. In eloquent and often
witty essays, these women directly address the challenges of being
mothers in the scientific workforce.

Contributors to this volume include biologists, physicists,
geologists, and oceanographers. They are professors, writers,
independent consultants, science policy experts, teachers, and
government researchers. For those who fear that motherhood is
incompatible with traditional scientific research careers, this book
offers some stunning examples to the contrary. An atmospheric chemist
writes of raising five children as she works and rises to a position
of leadership at NASA. An astronomer raises four children, each born
only eighteen months apart, as she first achieves tenure at the
government Space Telescope Science Institute, then takes on a faculty
position at the Rochester Institute of Technology. Other women seek
non-traditional careers in a quest for balance, and forge new paths
for themselves. The editor of the anthology, Monosson, is a prime
example: trained as a toxicologist with a Ph.D from Cornell, she has
established a career as an independent consultant, researcher
, and writer.

The diversity of career paths described by Motherhood's essayists is
impressive and eye-opening. These women demonstrate that there are
number of different ways of balancing work and family life. Even for
those who eventually end up in traditional careers, the road may be
circuitous. Some of the women in these pages drop out of the workforce
for a few years while their children are young, or work part-time.
Many have setbacks, and make career compromises for a spouse's or
their children's sakes. Some eventually return to the lab and tenure-
track careers; testament that these traditional careers - often
thought of as rigid, unyielding pathways - may have more flexibility
than we have been led to believe. Indeed, the fluidity of scientific
careers - the shifts between home life, academia, industry,
government, and back again - becomes a major theme.

It is not all sunshine and success, of course. Many of these women
also write movingly of the sacrifices they have made. Full professors
admit wistfully that they wish they had been able to spend more time
with their growing young children. Meanwhile, some of those who
deviated from traditional research tracks report a twinge when they
envision the scientific careers they might have had.

These pages also reveal that discrimination is alive and well in the
twenty-first century. In one harrowing chapter, Gina Wesley-Hunt, an
evolutionary biologist, tells of how she was fired in 2006 from a
postdoctoral position at an unnamed institution. The reason for her
dismissal? She was fired for being pregnant. As she learned to her
shock: "The equal opportunity office and office overseeing interns and
postdocs told me there was no policy that protected me. It was
entirely up to my PI, and I was on my own."

Essays in the book are arranged chronologically, according to the date
by which the writer's PhD was conferred. The book opens with
scientists who received their PhDs in the 1970s, and marches onward
through the 80s and 90s, ending with the voices of women who are in
graduate school today. In this way, the book tracks the sweeping
social changes of the past thirty years. Despite the great influx of
women into science careers over the last decade, it is sobering to
read that conflicts between work and family have not changed. Indeed,
some of the essays in the last section read as though they could have
been written decades ago.

Monosson provides social and historical context in her introduction,
and to each section of the book. She notes that in the 1970s, women
earned only 17% of the doctorates awarded in science and engineering.
Today the figure is around 45%. However, women continue to be
underrepresented in the highest tiers of scientific employment, and
are more likely than men to work part-time or to leave science
altogether. Monosson closely examines this phenomenon, dubbed "the
leaky pipeline." She discusses the growing body of evidence which
points to the demands of motherhood as a major cause of the leaky
pipeline, citing the work of Mary Ann Mason and Marc Goulden, among
others, who found that women academics who have babies at early stages
of their careers are less likely than childless women to achieve
tenure. As early as the 1970s, Monosson notes, there were published
calls for more family-friendly and flexible career structures in the
sciences. These calls have been repeated in each s
ucceeding decade.

It is often said that motherhood is not for the faint of heart. The
same could be said for a career in science. The debate over what
causes the leaky pipeline, and remedies to address it, rages on. The
pace of institutional and cultural change can seem glacial. In the
mean-time, scientists who are also mothers can find support by sharing
their stories with one another. Monosson's book provides a valuable
medium for doing so. As one woman writes in the opening pages of
Motherhood: "In the final analysis, every woman finds her own way.
It's just good to know that none of us is alone."

Motherhood, the Elephant in the Laboratory: Women Scientists Speak
Out. Emily Monosson (Editor). Cornell University Press, Ithaca, 2008.
232 pp. ISBN: 978-0-8014-4664-1. $25.00.

This article was written by Vanessa Fogg; she is a freelance
scientific writer and editor based in
Grand Rapids, Michigan. She holds a Ph.D in molecular cell biology
from Washington University in St. Louis. She is also a mother.

Emily Monosson has established an accompanying website and online
community to discuss issues of motherhood in science, which can be
found at http://sciencemoms.wordpress.com/

Sure, I know a married couple who job shared "one" position, but that's
kind of problematic, because the tenure criteria tend to be higher for
both faculty members.  It's pretty hard to put together a half a
promotion file!

I find that conscientious young fathers these days have quite a bit of
challenge balancing family and career as well.  Ultimately, the best
plan is to change the workplace to be more accommodating of working
families. My university discourages faculty from bringing kids to campus
younger than 10, for liability reasons.  Try using a breastpump in an
average grad student or faculty bathroom or office! Even folks w/o kids
appreciate flexible workplaces.

With the public budgets being cut back, I expect progress made on these
goals to suffer in the short run, though.


Bowles, Elizabeth Davis wrote:
>
> I am curious if anyone has heard of two half-time people sharing a
> tenure-track position? I once worked for a city government agency in
> which there were 2 city attorneys (both mothers) that each worked
> half-time to fill a full-time position. Seems like that could be
> accomodated at the university level.
>
> Also, a quick comment - when I was in graduate school (before my
> pregnancy), a group of faculty held a discussion group with the
> students about balancing family life and career. I asked one of the
> mothers if she felt that she lost motivation for her career after
> having a child. She said that her motivation actually increased. It
> was only after I had a child that I understood what she meant. When
> you are away from your child, you make every minute count.
>
> Beth
>
>
>
>

I am curious if anyone has heard of two half-time people sharing a tenure-track
position?  I once worked for a city government agency in which there were 2 city
attorneys (both mothers) that each worked half-time to fill a full-time
position.  Seems like that could be accomodated at the university level.

Also, a quick comment - when I was in graduate school (before my pregnancy), a
group of faculty held a discussion group with the students about balancing
family life and career.  I asked one of the mothers if she felt that she lost
motivation for her career after having a child.  She said that her motivation
actually increased.  It was only after I had a child that I understood what she
meant.  When you are away from your child, you make every minute count.

Beth

Betsey,

We're at the same stage of our research--I have two chapters done and
will defend this spring too!  You must have had some experience
bringing your son into the field too?  I agree that it is reassuring
to read the stories and experiences on this board and am so thankful
that Carolyn got it started!

Sara

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "boughton.elizabeth"
<boughton.elizabeth@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I just read Sara's article and joined this group. Sara, thank you
for
> writing the article! It feels wonderfully reassuring to find other
> scientist moms out there.  My story is that I started my PhD with a
7
> month old baby.  The first two years were really hard. But, I was
> able to complete my field work and am now writing my dissertation-
my
> son is four and a half years old now and its much easier. I can't
> believe he'll be starting kindergarten next year! My husband and I
> work together but also had full time care when my son turned 1.5
> years old.  Before that I did similar to what Carolyn did with
going
> in part time and having a babysitter at the house. I agree with
Sara
> and Carolyn that having a baby in your life makes you much more
> efficient.  Now that I'm completing my degree...I'll be defending
in
> March...and I have two chapters complete, my husband and I decided
we
> wanted to have another baby (our last one).  I'm just wondering
when
> I should tell my advisor I am pregnant; at this point I'm only
three
> weeks.  My advisor and I still have some field work we are
> collaborating on.  I think he will be supportive because he loves
> children and has two of his own, but at the same time I still have
> misgivings about letting him down because it will cause some
> inconvenience.
>
> Its nice to hear everyone's stories and encouragement!
>
> Betsey
>
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Flore
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are
> through
> > your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.
> >
> > It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have
a
> > child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career
> and
> > work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and
found
> out
> > that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really
amazed
> > and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much
as
> > possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated
the
> > power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
> > said, I was also grateful
> > to have my work because it was and continues to be a very
fulfilling
> > aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and
> it's
> > a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse
> yourself
> > in science during work time.
> >
> > My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
> > pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
> > managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
> > that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I
> was
> > able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
> > supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
> > after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
> > hours/week.
> >
> > Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
> > part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-
> parents
> > and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing
> I've
> > done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
> > extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email
> correspondence
> > is WAY down).
> >
> > Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
> > partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open
to
> the
> > experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try
hard
> to
> > carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
> > Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write
> really
> > helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be
close,
> but
> > still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
> > time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task
of
> > writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner
> comes
> > in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a
lot
> > easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come
> attend
> > to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start
back
> to
> > working while still being close for your baby.
> >
> > My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
> > academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.
They
> > worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
> > they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me
with
> > great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I
had
> > trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted
> and
> > felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
> > post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting
his
> > first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
> > part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the
> sorts
> > of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
> > becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would
> have
> > been possible to have a child and continue in academia.
> >
> > We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
> > career after the post-doc.
> >
> > Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away
from
> > being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
> > delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out
here
> > going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
> > fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
> > encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as
we
> > continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists
who
> > also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping
> point
> > and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate
students,
> it
> > will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families
taken
> > into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my
> hopeful
> > perspective!
> >
> > Best to everyone,
> > Carolyn
> >
> > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
> > <viard_cretat_flore@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everybody and especially Sara,
> > >
> > > I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment
(and
> by
> > > the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for
> young
> > > scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a
> baby, it
> > > is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work
> while
> > > the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> > > workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must
leave
> > > their work early because of their children. Most of my
colleagues
> also
> > > waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a
> family, so
> > > they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years
old
> (so
> > > will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished
my
> PhD
> > > this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a
> post
> > > doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say
> these
> > > three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard
> considering
> > > my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at
all
> work
> > > 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and
> only
> > > could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the
> baby
> > > will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your
opinion
> (the
> > > message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist
and
> > > having children, and other parents experience it).
> > >
> > > Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work
> during
> > > the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> > > perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Flore
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga"
<sescanga@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
> writing up
> > > > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with
help
> from a
> > > > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read
the
> > > > thoughts people have posted.
> > > >
> > > > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to
> be
> > > > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the
> end of
> > > > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > > > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal
> survey,
> > > > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
> draft
> > > > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others
> had to
> > > > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007,
> Bulletin of
> > > > ESA), and then joined this group.
> > > >
> > > > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
> article)
> > > > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
> provided
> > > > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
> issues
> > > > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In
> developing my
> > > > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women
shared
> a
> > > > keen interest in the topic.
> > > >
> > > > Members of this group might also be interested in the
articles
> > > > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > > >
>
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > > > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> > > >
> > > > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the
> hopes
> > > > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
> further
> > > > fruitful discussions in this group.
> > > >
> > > > Sara
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hi Flore,

I'm glad that you wrote into the group and congratulations on your
pregnancy!  Carolyn's thoughts are very similar to my own.  Like her,
I also send many fewer emails than I used to.  In fact, I will have
to keep this post short because my son just woke up and came into my
office and is sitting on my lap!  :)

Like you, I also was very tired in the first trimester, but it was
followed by a relatively easy few months when I was able to study for
and take my candidacy exams--maybe you can look forward to an easier
upcoming few months as well.  I hope so!

I would add to Carolyn's email that even once you have your child,
things seem to often be in a state of flux, especially when s/he is
very young.  I've often found that when I finally have a good routine
down, my son gets a bit older and things change.  For that reason, it
is nice for you that you'll be able to be flexible with your time for
the first few months after giving birth.  Maybe you can even plan to
start a post-doc part-time at first (?).

And I would emphasize Carolyn's point that it is so hard to know how
things will be after your baby is born.  Everyone has slightly
different experiences, so even reading all the experiences on this
board can only partially prepare you for your own.  For example, my
son woke up about 6 times per night for a full year after he was
born, which is why I decided to emphasize sleep deprivation in my
article--it was a huge lifestyle change for me to try to work with so
little sleep.

All of these things make it very hard to plan--something that drove
me crazy at the beginning, and still does sometimes!  Building as
much flexibility as you can into your first, say, 6 months with your
baby will probably make it easier on you.

I'm glad to see people writing on the board again, and I share
Carolyn's optimism that balancing family and career will continue to
become easier over the next few decades.  One of my survey
respondents remarked that having part-time tenure track positions
would be key to this balance--an interesting perspective!

Sara

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Flore
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are
through
> your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.
>
> It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have a
> child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career
and
> work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and found
out
> that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really amazed
> and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much as
> possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated the
> power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
> said, I was also grateful
> to have my work because it was and continues to be a very fulfilling
> aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and
it's
> a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse
yourself
> in science during work time.
>
> My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
> pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
> managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
> that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I
was
> able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
> supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
> after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
> hours/week.
>
> Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
> part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-
parents
> and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing
I've
> done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
> extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email
correspondence
> is WAY down).
>
> Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
> partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open to
the
> experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try hard
to
> carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
> Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write
really
> helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be close,
but
> still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
> time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task of
> writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner
comes
> in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a lot
> easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come
attend
> to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start back
to
> working while still being close for your baby.
>
> My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
> academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.  They
> worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
> they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me with
> great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I had
> trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted
and
> felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
> post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting his
> first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
> part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the
sorts
> of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
> becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would
have
> been possible to have a child and continue in academia.
>
> We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
> career after the post-doc.
>
> Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away from
> being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
> delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out here
> going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
> fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
> encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as we
> continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists who
> also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping
point
> and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate students,
it
> will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families taken
> into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my
hopeful
> perspective!
>
> Best to everyone,
> Carolyn
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
> <viard_cretat_flore@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody and especially Sara,
> >
> > I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and
by
> > the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for
young
> > scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a
baby, it
> > is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work
while
> > the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> > workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
> > their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues
also
> > waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a
family, so
> > they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old
(so
> > will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my
PhD
> > this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a
post
> > doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say
these
> > three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard
considering
> > my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all
work
> > 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and
only
> > could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the
baby
> > will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion
(the
> > message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
> > having children, and other parents experience it).
> >
> > Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work
during
> > the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> > perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Flore
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
writing up
> > > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help
from a
> > > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > > thoughts people have posted.
> > >
> > > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to
be
> > > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the
end of
> > > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal
survey,
> > > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
draft
> > > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others
had to
> > > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007,
Bulletin of
> > > ESA), and then joined this group.
> > >
> > > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
article)
> > > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
provided
> > > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
issues
> > > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In
developing my
> > > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared
a
> > > keen interest in the topic.
> > >
> > > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > >
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> > >
> > > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the
hopes
> > > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
further
> > > fruitful discussions in this group.
> > >
> > > Sara
> > >
> >
>

Hi! My names is Jessica, I am a grad student with a 4 years old child.
Thanks to Sara's article I found you guys! I am exited about hearing
your experience of be a young parent and beginning a science career at
the same time.
Best regards,
Jessica.

Hi Everyone,

I just read Sara's article and joined this group. Sara, thank you for
writing the article! It feels wonderfully reassuring to find other
scientist moms out there.  My story is that I started my PhD with a 7
month old baby.  The first two years were really hard. But, I was
able to complete my field work and am now writing my dissertation- my
son is four and a half years old now and its much easier. I can't
believe he'll be starting kindergarten next year! My husband and I
work together but also had full time care when my son turned 1.5
years old.  Before that I did similar to what Carolyn did with going
in part time and having a babysitter at the house. I agree with Sara
and Carolyn that having a baby in your life makes you much more
efficient.  Now that I'm completing my degree...I'll be defending in
March...and I have two chapters complete, my husband and I decided we
wanted to have another baby (our last one).  I'm just wondering when
I should tell my advisor I am pregnant; at this point I'm only three
weeks.  My advisor and I still have some field work we are
collaborating on.  I think he will be supportive because he loves
children and has two of his own, but at the same time I still have
misgivings about letting him down because it will cause some
inconvenience.

Its nice to hear everyone's stories and encouragement!

Betsey


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Flore
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are
through
> your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.
>
> It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have a
> child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career
and
> work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and found
out
> that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really amazed
> and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much as
> possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated the
> power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
> said, I was also grateful
> to have my work because it was and continues to be a very fulfilling
> aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and
it's
> a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse
yourself
> in science during work time.
>
> My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
> pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
> managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
> that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I
was
> able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
> supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
> after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
> hours/week.
>
> Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
> part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-
parents
> and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing
I've
> done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
> extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email
correspondence
> is WAY down).
>
> Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
> partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open to
the
> experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try hard
to
> carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
> Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write
really
> helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be close,
but
> still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
> time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task of
> writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner
comes
> in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a lot
> easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come
attend
> to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start back
to
> working while still being close for your baby.
>
> My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
> academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.  They
> worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
> they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me with
> great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I had
> trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted
and
> felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
> post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting his
> first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
> part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the
sorts
> of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
> becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would
have
> been possible to have a child and continue in academia.
>
> We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
> career after the post-doc.
>
> Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away from
> being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
> delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out here
> going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
> fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
> encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as we
> continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists who
> also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping
point
> and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate students,
it
> will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families taken
> into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my
hopeful
> perspective!
>
> Best to everyone,
> Carolyn
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
> <viard_cretat_flore@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody and especially Sara,
> >
> > I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and
by
> > the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for
young
> > scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a
baby, it
> > is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work
while
> > the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> > workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
> > their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues
also
> > waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a
family, so
> > they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old
(so
> > will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my
PhD
> > this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a
post
> > doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say
these
> > three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard
considering
> > my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all
work
> > 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and
only
> > could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the
baby
> > will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion
(the
> > message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
> > having children, and other parents experience it).
> >
> > Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work
during
> > the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> > perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Flore
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
writing up
> > > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help
from a
> > > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > > thoughts people have posted.
> > >
> > > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to
be
> > > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the
end of
> > > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal
survey,
> > > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
draft
> > > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others
had to
> > > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007,
Bulletin of
> > > ESA), and then joined this group.
> > >
> > > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
article)
> > > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
provided
> > > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
issues
> > > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In
developing my
> > > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared
a
> > > keen interest in the topic.
> > >
> > > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > >
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> > >
> > > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the
hopes
> > > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
further
> > > fruitful discussions in this group.
> > >
> > > Sara
> > >
> >
>

Hi Flore

Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are through
your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.

It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have a
child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career and
work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and found out
that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really amazed
and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much as
possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated the
power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
said, I was also grateful
to have my work because it was and continues to be a very fulfilling
aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and it's
a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse yourself
in science during work time.

My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I was
able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
hours/week.

Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-parents
and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing I've
done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email correspondence
is WAY down).

Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open to the
experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try hard to
carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write really
helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be close, but
still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task of
writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner comes
in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a lot
easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come attend
to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start back to
working while still being close for your baby.

My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.  They
worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me with
great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I had
trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted and
felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting his
first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the sorts
of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would have
been possible to have a child and continue in academia.

We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
career after the post-doc.

Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away from
being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out here
going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as we
continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists who
also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping point
and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate students, it
will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families taken
into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my hopeful
perspective!

Best to everyone,
Carolyn

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
<viard_cretat_flore@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody and especially Sara,
>
> I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and by
> the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for young
> scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a baby, it
> is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work while
> the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
> their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues also
> waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a family, so
> they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old (so
> will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my PhD
> this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a post
> doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say these
> three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard considering
> my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all work
> 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and only
> could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the baby
> will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion (the
> message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
> having children, and other parents experience it).
>
> Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work during
> the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
>
> Thanks
>
> Flore
>
>
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
> > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
> > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > thoughts people have posted.
> >
> > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
> > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
> > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
> > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
> > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
> > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
> > ESA), and then joined this group.
> >
> > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
> > are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
> > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
> > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
> > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
> > keen interest in the topic.
> >
> > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> >
> > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
> > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
> > fruitful discussions in this group.
> >
> > Sara
> >
>

Hello everybody and especially Sara,

I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and by
the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for young
scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a baby, it
is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work while
the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues also
waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a family, so
they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old (so
will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my PhD
this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a post
doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say these
three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard considering
my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all work
8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and only
could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the baby
will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion (the
message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
having children, and other parents experience it).

Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work during
the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?

Thanks

Flore



--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
> my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
> babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> thoughts people have posted.
>
> I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
> submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
> the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
> from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
> yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
> say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
> ESA), and then joined this group.
>
> The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
> are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
> feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
> are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
> article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
> keen interest in the topic.
>
> Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> Science has compiled on the topic:
> http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
>
> I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
> that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
> fruitful discussions in this group.
>
> Sara
>

Hello,

I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
thoughts people have posted.

I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
ESA), and then joined this group.

The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
keen interest in the topic.

Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
Science has compiled on the topic:
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/

I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
fruitful discussions in this group.

Sara

Hi All

I wish everyone a happy new year and wanted to share something that I
received in my inbox recently.  It's from a group called MomsRising
and is along the lines of some of the things we have discussed on our
forum regarding prejudice against women who choose to have children
and keep working.  Read on for more information.

Best to all!
Carolyn

Dear MomsRising member,

NEW YEAR'S POP QUIZ: What's Maternal Profiling?

a.    The practice of selling stiff undergarments that promise a
return to one's pre-pregnancy profile.
b.    How the Oprah Show executives determine their prime demographic.
c.    Employment discrimination against a woman who has, or will have,
children.
d.    Routine stop and searches of swerving minivans to check if
violence is being perpetrated via flying food between minors.

ANSWER:  c.  Maternal Profiling was reported on as one of the new
buzzwords of 2007 in the New York Times (and members of MomsRising
were credited with introducing this term into our national
consciousness!).  They defined it as:

"Employment discrimination against a woman who has, or will have,
children. The term has been popularized by members of MomsRising, an
advocacy group promoting the rights of mothers in the workplace."

SPREAD THE WORD: Join us in our New Year's resolution to help stamp
out Maternal Profiling. Share this term with friends and family by
forwarding this email, read about how others experience Maternal
Profiling on our blog, and if you're so moved, share your story of
Maternal Profiling at the end of the blog as well.

Click here to read more about Maternal Profiling, including how it
impacts you & comment on our blog: http://www.momsrising.org/node/710

This new phrase is powerful because it brings forward a shared
experience--helping to frame national understanding of the causes of
and solutions to discrimination against mothers.  Sexual harassment is
a phrase which helped spark major legislative and cultural changes.
Widespread use of the phrase "Maternal Profiling" can similarly help
spark major changes.

And major changes are needed. One recent study found that mothers are
79% less likely to be hired than non-mothers with equal resumes and
job experiences. Mothers also face discrimination in their paychecks:
Women without children make 90 cents to a man's dollar,  but mothers
make only 73 cents to a man's dollar, and single mothers make about 60
cents to a man's dollar.  Working together, we can stamp out Maternal
Profiling and make our nation more truly family-friendly.

NEED AN EXCITING PARTY CONVERSATION STARTER? Use this Pop Quiz as a
conversation starter at parties, and as an easy way to share the term
with friends (You can test friends at parties, see if friends can make
their own definitions while midnight confetti is falling, and try it
out on relatives).  The more people who understand and use the word,
the faster we'll be able to stop the practice. Let's get rid of it!

Have a very Happy New Years!

- Mary, Cooper, Kristin, Joan, Nanette, Donna, Anita, Katie

-------So what is Maternal Profiling really? And is it happening to
you and your friends?------

Sadly, the answer to the second question is, yes, if you're a mother
in America, then Maternal Profiling has likely happened to you.
Maternal Profiling is a significant and shared problem which
negatively impacts vast numbers of women in our nation, particularly
since a full 82% of American women become mothers by the time they are
forty-four years old.  And, the workplace impacts of Maternal
Profiling are jaw dropping, especially given that three-quarters of
American mothers are now in the labor force.

In fact, the American Journal of Sociology recently reported a study
which found that mothers are 79% less likely to be hired than
non-mothers with equal resumes and job experiences.  (Sadly, that
wasn't a typo.  The study really found that mothers are 79% less
likely to be hired.)

Mothers also face steep wage hits and unequal wages for equal work.
One study found that women without children make 90 cents to a man's
dollar, but mothers make only 73 cents to a man's dollar, and single
mothers make about 60 cents to a man's dollar.

Fortunately, we know how to narrow these wage gaps and how to stop
Maternal Profiling. Countries with family-friendly policies in
place--such as paid family leave after the birth of a child and
subsidized childcare--don't have the same degree of maternal wage hits
as we do here.  That's one of the reasons why MomsRising is fighting
for family-friendly policies, as well as for laws that protect mothers
and other caregivers from discrimination in the workplace.  Cultural
change is another way to help stop Maternal Profiling: The more people
who become aware of what are often subconscious discriminatory
actions, the less often those discriminatory actions will happen.  So
it's important that as many people as possible learn about the
widespread practice of Maternal Profiling.

*Take a moment to help spread the word (literally!) to friends and
family by forwarding them our Pop Quiz.

P.S. Don't forget to get more details about Maternal Profiling and
share your experiences at the end of that blog by clicking here:
http://www.momsrising.org/node/710

P.P.S. Read the recent New York Times article which includes Maternal
Profiling and MomsRising here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/weekinreview/23buzzwords.html

I feel compelled to join this group, as my labmates and I have been
having these types of discussions for years!

I, too, am interested in the response to this question, particularly
for women candidates.  While it is technically illegal for committe
members to broach this subject, I find it hard to believe that they
would not consider a person's family situation during a search (even
if it is done silently by each individual), especially at a R-1
university.  That is not to say that you would be discriminated
against, but I think that it is pretty difficult to say whether your
family situation plays a role in hiring decisions.

A practical question for you all...If you are not obviously pregnant,
but you have a family, do you stay 100% silent about it at an
interview?  Only bring it up if it appears that the department/certain
individuals might be amenable to it (i.e. untenured faculty with young
kids)?  Or do you try to bring it up so that it isn't a big secret?
That is, by addressing it, you verify that it is not a big deal that
you have a family, you are dedicated to your profession, etc?

cheers,
Leah