Hi Everyone,

I just read Sara's article and joined this group. Sara, thank you for
writing the article! It feels wonderfully reassuring to find other
scientist moms out there.  My story is that I started my PhD with a 7
month old baby.  The first two years were really hard. But, I was
able to complete my field work and am now writing my dissertation- my
son is four and a half years old now and its much easier. I can't
believe he'll be starting kindergarten next year! My husband and I
work together but also had full time care when my son turned 1.5
years old.  Before that I did similar to what Carolyn did with going
in part time and having a babysitter at the house. I agree with Sara
and Carolyn that having a baby in your life makes you much more
efficient.  Now that I'm completing my degree...I'll be defending in
March...and I have two chapters complete, my husband and I decided we
wanted to have another baby (our last one).  I'm just wondering when
I should tell my advisor I am pregnant; at this point I'm only three
weeks.  My advisor and I still have some field work we are
collaborating on.  I think he will be supportive because he loves
children and has two of his own, but at the same time I still have
misgivings about letting him down because it will cause some
inconvenience.

Its nice to hear everyone's stories and encouragement!

Betsey


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Flore
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are
through
> your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.
>
> It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have a
> child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career
and
> work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and found
out
> that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really amazed
> and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much as
> possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated the
> power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
> said, I was also grateful
> to have my work because it was and continues to be a very fulfilling
> aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and
it's
> a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse
yourself
> in science during work time.
>
> My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
> pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
> managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
> that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I
was
> able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
> supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
> after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
> hours/week.
>
> Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
> part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-
parents
> and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing
I've
> done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
> extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email
correspondence
> is WAY down).
>
> Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
> partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open to
the
> experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try hard
to
> carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
> Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write
really
> helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be close,
but
> still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
> time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task of
> writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner
comes
> in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a lot
> easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come
attend
> to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start back
to
> working while still being close for your baby.
>
> My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
> academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.  They
> worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
> they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me with
> great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I had
> trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted
and
> felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
> post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting his
> first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
> part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the
sorts
> of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
> becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would
have
> been possible to have a child and continue in academia.
>
> We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
> career after the post-doc.
>
> Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away from
> being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
> delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out here
> going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
> fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
> encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as we
> continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists who
> also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping
point
> and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate students,
it
> will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families taken
> into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my
hopeful
> perspective!
>
> Best to everyone,
> Carolyn
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
> <viard_cretat_flore@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everybody and especially Sara,
> >
> > I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and
by
> > the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for
young
> > scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a
baby, it
> > is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work
while
> > the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> > workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
> > their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues
also
> > waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a
family, so
> > they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old
(so
> > will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my
PhD
> > this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a
post
> > doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say
these
> > three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard
considering
> > my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all
work
> > 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and
only
> > could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the
baby
> > will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion
(the
> > message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
> > having children, and other parents experience it).
> >
> > Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work
during
> > the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> > perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Flore
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm
writing up
> > > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help
from a
> > > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > > thoughts people have posted.
> > >
> > > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to
be
> > > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the
end of
> > > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal
survey,
> > > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my
draft
> > > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others
had to
> > > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007,
Bulletin of
> > > ESA), and then joined this group.
> > >
> > > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's
article)
> > > are those that are also of most interest to the people who
provided
> > > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these
issues
> > > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In
developing my
> > > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared
a
> > > keen interest in the topic.
> > >
> > > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > >
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> > >
> > > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the
hopes
> > > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for
further
> > > fruitful discussions in this group.
> > >
> > > Sara
> > >
> >
>

Hi Flore

Thanks for sharing your experience!  It's amazing that you are through
your Ph.D. and only 26 years old - congratulations.

It feels very uncertain when you are pregnant or planning to have a
child as to how things will fall into place regarding your career and
work life.  I assumed that things would be a certain way and found out
that they were totally different.  For instance, I was really amazed
and surprised at how much I wanted to be home with my son as much as
possible especially at the beginning.  I greatly underestimated the
power of the biological pull that a child has on its mother.  That
said, I was also grateful
to have my work because it was and continues to be a very fulfilling
aspect of my life.  Taking care of a little one is hard work and it's
a great "break" to be able to exercise your mind and immerse yourself
in science during work time.

My son is 19 months old and I am currently in my post-doc.  I was
pregnant and had my son while I was still in graduate school and
managed to do all of my last minute lab work before he was born so
that all I had to do after he came was analyze data and write.  I was
able to do this part-time with the aid of a great fellowship, a
supportive husband who co-parented and also worked part-time, and,
after my son turned 1, a great babysitter who helped us out 7
hours/week.

Now that I'm in a post-doc position, I still only come into work
part-time (I'm at the office 25 hours/week) and my husband co-parents
and we now have a sitter coming in 9 hours/week.  The main thing I've
done is become extremely efficient and I've cut out most of the
extraneous stuff that takes up a lot of time (my email correspondence
is WAY down).

Once your baby comes, you will see what works for you and your
partner.  I encourage you to be flexible, be willing to be open to the
experience, and, if it turns out to be what you need, then try hard to
carve out the time that you need to be fulfilled in your career.
Having a space at home that you can escape to in order to write really
helps especially if you are breastfeeding.  Then you can be close, but
still have a space to work.  It's important that you set aside the
time away from your baby so that you can really focus on the task of
writing your dissertation.  That's where the supportive partner comes
in (or a good babysitter).  Leaving your baby with a sitter is a lot
easier when you are just in the next room writing and can come attend
to things if you are needed.  That may be a good way to start back to
working while still being close for your baby.

My dissertation advisors both have small children and spouses in
academia, so they were really supportive of me having a child.  They
worried some (I think) about me finishing on time, but ultimately,
they really supported me working at home a lot and provided me with
great role models of how to incorporate academia and family.  I had
trouble working during my first trimester because I was exhausted and
felt sick, so I worked at home and that was just fine.  My current
post-doctoral mentor is also very very supportive and expecting his
first child in January.  He is fine with me being at the office
part-time as long as I continue to be productive.  These are the sorts
of situations that we need to encourage and that are hopefully
becoming the norm.  Without this support, I don't think it would have
been possible to have a child and continue in academia.

We'll see how it works as I transition into the next phase of my
career after the post-doc.

Best to you Flore in your pregnancy and in this transition away from
being "just" a scientist to being a mom AND a scientist!  It's a
delicate balancing act, but know that there are a lot of us out here
going through the same things.  And that it IS very possible to be
fulfilled BOTH as a mom and as a scientist.  Especially as we
encourage the continuation of supportive work environments and as we
continue to see more and more examples of successful scientists who
also are successful parents.  I think we are very near a tipping point
and with women making up the majority of ecology graduate students, it
will just be more and more normal to see the needs of families taken
into account in the academic career path.  At least that's my hopeful
perspective!

Best to everyone,
Carolyn

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "viard_cretat_flore"
<viard_cretat_flore@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everybody and especially Sara,
>
> I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and by
> the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for young
> scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a baby, it
> is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work while
> the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
> workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
> their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues also
> waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a family, so
> they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old (so
> will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my PhD
> this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a post
> doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say these
> three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard considering
> my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all work
> 8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and only
> could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the baby
> will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion (the
> message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
> having children, and other parents experience it).
>
> Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work during
> the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
> perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?
>
> Thanks
>
> Flore
>
>
>
> --- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
> > my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
> > babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> > thoughts people have posted.
> >
> > I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
> > submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
> > the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> > informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
> > from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
> > yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
> > say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
> > ESA), and then joined this group.
> >
> > The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
> > are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
> > feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
> > are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
> > article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
> > keen interest in the topic.
> >
> > Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> > Science has compiled on the topic:
> > http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> > s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
> >
> > I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
> > that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
> > fruitful discussions in this group.
> >
> > Sara
> >
>

Hello everybody and especially Sara,

I read your article in Frontiers in Ecology and Environment (and by
the way discovered this group :) and found it very useful for young
scientists and young mothers/fathers. When deciding to have a baby, it
is extremely hard to know how you will able to continue to work while
the baby will be here. Families are not always visible in the
workplace and colleagues tend to avoid to say that they must leave
their work early because of their children. Most of my colleagues also
waited to have a permanent position to start to think to a family, so
they had their first child around 35 years old. I am 26 years old (so
will probably be the youngest mother in my lab), have finished my PhD
this summer and I am pregnant (3 months). I will try to find a post
doc starting 2-3 months after my baby will be born. I must say these
three last months of pregnancy  have been extremely hard considering
my work (I am finishing my papers on my PhD). I could not at all work
8 hours a day, because I felt very tired, sick  all the day and only
could sleep a lot. I don't know at all how it will be when the baby
will be here, but I feel it more secure since I read your opinion (the
message is finally : yes, it is possible to be young scientist and
having children, and other parents experience it).

Do other mothers have experienced difficulties with their work during
the pregnancy? How did you manage to continue, and how was it
perceived by your supervisors and colleagues?

Thanks

Flore



--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "sescanga" <sescanga@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
> my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
> babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
> thoughts people have posted.
>
> I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
> submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
> the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
> informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
> from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
> yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
> say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
> ESA), and then joined this group.
>
> The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
> are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
> feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
> are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
> article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
> keen interest in the topic.
>
> Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
> Science has compiled on the topic:
> http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
> s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/
>
> I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
> that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
> fruitful discussions in this group.
>
> Sara
>

Hello,

I'm a Ph.D. candidate and the mother of a 2 year old.  I'm writing up
my dissertation while taking care of my son at home--with help from a
babysitter 3 mornings a week.  It is very inspiring to read the
thoughts people have posted.

I'm writing an article on the balance of career and family to be
submitted to Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment at the end of
the month.  My article is based on feedback, obtained through
informal conversations and a score of answers to a formal survey,
from other ecologists at all stages of career.  I finished my draft
yesterday and was perusing the literature to see what others had to
say about this topic, and found Carolyn's article (2007, Bulletin of
ESA), and then joined this group.

The topics that are of most interest here (and in Carolyn's article)
are those that are also of most interest to the people who provided
feedback for my article.  It seems as though a lot of these issues
are pretty universal, and don't have easy answers.  In developing my
article, I was encouraged to see that both men and women shared a
keen interest in the topic.

Members of this group might also be interested in the articles
Science has compiled on the topic:
http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_development/previous_issue
s/articles/2800/scientists_as_parents_feature_index/

I'm planning to cite Carolyn's article in my article in the hopes
that we can perhaps use it as a second jumping off point for further
fruitful discussions in this group.

Sara

Hi All

I wish everyone a happy new year and wanted to share something that I
received in my inbox recently.  It's from a group called MomsRising
and is along the lines of some of the things we have discussed on our
forum regarding prejudice against women who choose to have children
and keep working.  Read on for more information.

Best to all!
Carolyn

Dear MomsRising member,

NEW YEAR'S POP QUIZ: What's Maternal Profiling?

a.    The practice of selling stiff undergarments that promise a
return to one's pre-pregnancy profile.
b.    How the Oprah Show executives determine their prime demographic.
c.    Employment discrimination against a woman who has, or will have,
children.
d.    Routine stop and searches of swerving minivans to check if
violence is being perpetrated via flying food between minors.

ANSWER:  c.  Maternal Profiling was reported on as one of the new
buzzwords of 2007 in the New York Times (and members of MomsRising
were credited with introducing this term into our national
consciousness!).  They defined it as:

"Employment discrimination against a woman who has, or will have,
children. The term has been popularized by members of MomsRising, an
advocacy group promoting the rights of mothers in the workplace."

SPREAD THE WORD: Join us in our New Year's resolution to help stamp
out Maternal Profiling. Share this term with friends and family by
forwarding this email, read about how others experience Maternal
Profiling on our blog, and if you're so moved, share your story of
Maternal Profiling at the end of the blog as well.

Click here to read more about Maternal Profiling, including how it
impacts you & comment on our blog: http://www.momsrising.org/node/710

This new phrase is powerful because it brings forward a shared
experience--helping to frame national understanding of the causes of
and solutions to discrimination against mothers.  Sexual harassment is
a phrase which helped spark major legislative and cultural changes.
Widespread use of the phrase "Maternal Profiling" can similarly help
spark major changes.

And major changes are needed. One recent study found that mothers are
79% less likely to be hired than non-mothers with equal resumes and
job experiences. Mothers also face discrimination in their paychecks:
Women without children make 90 cents to a man's dollar,  but mothers
make only 73 cents to a man's dollar, and single mothers make about 60
cents to a man's dollar.  Working together, we can stamp out Maternal
Profiling and make our nation more truly family-friendly.

NEED AN EXCITING PARTY CONVERSATION STARTER? Use this Pop Quiz as a
conversation starter at parties, and as an easy way to share the term
with friends (You can test friends at parties, see if friends can make
their own definitions while midnight confetti is falling, and try it
out on relatives).  The more people who understand and use the word,
the faster we'll be able to stop the practice. Let's get rid of it!

Have a very Happy New Years!

- Mary, Cooper, Kristin, Joan, Nanette, Donna, Anita, Katie

-------So what is Maternal Profiling really? And is it happening to
you and your friends?------

Sadly, the answer to the second question is, yes, if you're a mother
in America, then Maternal Profiling has likely happened to you.
Maternal Profiling is a significant and shared problem which
negatively impacts vast numbers of women in our nation, particularly
since a full 82% of American women become mothers by the time they are
forty-four years old.  And, the workplace impacts of Maternal
Profiling are jaw dropping, especially given that three-quarters of
American mothers are now in the labor force.

In fact, the American Journal of Sociology recently reported a study
which found that mothers are 79% less likely to be hired than
non-mothers with equal resumes and job experiences.  (Sadly, that
wasn't a typo.  The study really found that mothers are 79% less
likely to be hired.)

Mothers also face steep wage hits and unequal wages for equal work.
One study found that women without children make 90 cents to a man's
dollar, but mothers make only 73 cents to a man's dollar, and single
mothers make about 60 cents to a man's dollar.

Fortunately, we know how to narrow these wage gaps and how to stop
Maternal Profiling. Countries with family-friendly policies in
place--such as paid family leave after the birth of a child and
subsidized childcare--don't have the same degree of maternal wage hits
as we do here.  That's one of the reasons why MomsRising is fighting
for family-friendly policies, as well as for laws that protect mothers
and other caregivers from discrimination in the workplace.  Cultural
change is another way to help stop Maternal Profiling: The more people
who become aware of what are often subconscious discriminatory
actions, the less often those discriminatory actions will happen.  So
it's important that as many people as possible learn about the
widespread practice of Maternal Profiling.

*Take a moment to help spread the word (literally!) to friends and
family by forwarding them our Pop Quiz.

P.S. Don't forget to get more details about Maternal Profiling and
share your experiences at the end of that blog by clicking here:
http://www.momsrising.org/node/710

P.P.S. Read the recent New York Times article which includes Maternal
Profiling and MomsRising here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/weekinreview/23buzzwords.html

I feel compelled to join this group, as my labmates and I have been
having these types of discussions for years!

I, too, am interested in the response to this question, particularly
for women candidates.  While it is technically illegal for committe
members to broach this subject, I find it hard to believe that they
would not consider a person's family situation during a search (even
if it is done silently by each individual), especially at a R-1
university.  That is not to say that you would be discriminated
against, but I think that it is pretty difficult to say whether your
family situation plays a role in hiring decisions.

A practical question for you all...If you are not obviously pregnant,
but you have a family, do you stay 100% silent about it at an
interview?  Only bring it up if it appears that the department/certain
individuals might be amenable to it (i.e. untenured faculty with young
kids)?  Or do you try to bring it up so that it isn't a big secret?
That is, by addressing it, you verify that it is not a big deal that
you have a family, you are dedicated to your profession, etc?

cheers,
Leah

You've gotten some great advice already. There are family-friendly
institutions out there -- I was 8 months pregnant when I interviewed
for my current job! Given that it was completely obvious (though
apparently at least one older-male colleague didn't notice), I went
ahead and brought the topic up with a colleague that I knew had
children. (They're older now, but the youngest was 2 when she
started.) Once I started the discussion, we could talk about it
openly. But, I don't think I would suggest doing without good reason.

Right now, my dean, chair, and about a third of my colleagues in the
sciences have children under 7yo. That in itself seemed a good sign!
(I'm not at an R-1.)

Good luck in the hunt!

Cheryl

There is no reason to discuss this topic with hiring committees before
an offer has been made.  Hiring committees differ, but none should be
taking family status (including the existence or gender of a partner)
into account in their decision, positively or negatively.

When any inappropriate topic comes up, smile and answer a different,
appropriate question if possible.  Try to show that you are interested
in talking about the academic requirements of the position.

Job searches are political!

After you have an offer in hand, then chat with sympathetic faculty re:
whether you and your family will be supported in the workplace.

That's my two cents.


carolynkurle wrote:
>
> Hi science and families group!
>
> I am starting my job search and curious about others' experience with
> search committees knowing that a candidate has a young family. Have
> you found that it has worked against you? How do you handle it in the
> interview process? Does it even come up since they aren't allowed to
> ask about such things? When it does come up, do hiring faculty seem
> supportive? Or dubious of your ability to juggle both?
>
> Are there differences between types of institutions (large, research
> universities vs. smaller, liberal arts schools)?
>
> Has anyone been on search committees where this was an issue?
>
> Thank you for any input anyone has!
> Carolyn
>
>

Both of my advisors have young children and wives in academia.  That
has made a big difference in my ability to work from home as I write
my dissertation.  They are supportive of my commitment to finish my
degree and my desire to be with my now almost 6 month old son.  They
are also on board with helping me pursue the next phase of my career
path - finding a job!

So if you are looking for supportive advisors and PhD programs, I
would say look for men or women who already have young children and
understand the importance of balancing a rich family life with a
research position.

Good luck!
C.



--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "mhmwatkins" <mhmoss@...>
wrote:
>
> I am finishing my Master's this semester and considering applying for a
> PhD program.  I am 27 and my husband is 30 and we have put off starting
> a family because we have been in low paying jobs as research techs or
> grad students for the last five years.  We are sick and tired of
> waiting and want to start a family NOW!  However, part of my decision
> about pursuing a PhD at all centers on the idea that being a parent
> while you are a graduate student is looked down upon, even though you
> are in your reproductive prime!  It's not like the job pays enough to
> support a family either!  I feel like this is discrimination against
> women, children, and families and that academia is asking me to give up
> my reproductive fitness in order to fit into some old-fashioned
> patriarchal society, totally against what it purports to believe.
> Please tell me that it doesn't have to be like this and give me the
> secrets to finding a program and advisor that is supportive of my
> intellect and desire to have children!
>

Hi science and families group!

I am starting my job search and curious about others' experience with
search committees knowing that a candidate has a young family.  Have
you found that it has worked against you?  How do you handle it in the
interview process?  Does it even come up since they aren't allowed to
ask about such things?  When it does come up, do hiring faculty seem
supportive?  Or dubious of your ability to juggle both?

Are there differences between types of institutions (large, research
universities vs. smaller, liberal arts schools)?

Has anyone been on search committees where this was an issue?

Thank you for any input anyone has!
Carolyn

Carolyn hit it on the head -- there's no one right time to have a
baby, and I'd venture that the only wrong time is too late, since
we're all limited by biology.  I'm pre-tenure with a 4-year old and a
9-month old (and a teenage stepson), and like CK I had/ have
fortunate circumstances that let me spend a lot of time with my
kids.
We're not all that lucky, but academia is a pretty great setting --
as work situations go -- to have children in.  What's been critical
for me is to remember those scientists and scholars who work odd
hours, produce erratically, whatever it is, with no particular
reason.  I remember a grad student when I was working on my Ph.D. who
slept something like 4 a.m. to noon and worked pretty much only after
3 or 4 p.m. I have a single, unattached colleague on the faculty here
who refuses to teach before noon and generally shows up for work
around midday, and another who works almost entirely from home out of
personal preference.  Although there's been some 9-to-5-ization of
academia in recent years, it's usually acceptable to reshuffle your
work schedule -- even without as good a reason as family. I see many
of us held back by our own perfectionism and work ethic from making
our relatively flexible work situations compatible with kids.

So now i stick to my guns; I won't give up the three days I pick up
my older son at school, period, or the two mornings a week I stay
home with my baby, period.  I won't schedule myself into more than 25
of their waking hours a week, period -- the rest of my work happens
in the evenings, after they are in bed, or with one or both of them
along.  I say no to almost everything that I don't have to do.  It
feels mercenary sometimes, and like my goal has become to just keep
my job for these several years -- but the alternatives are to ditch
my family or quit my job -- neither one works for me.  So when I'm
typing that "sorry, I can't do it" email to a workshop organizer or
journal editor or NSF program officer or dean, I keep my resolve that
I'm doing the right thing by picturing what I'll be doing those hours
instead of tearing my hair out trying to fit it all in.  And my heart
rate goes down instantly.

When to have a baby? I've seen people work it out at every career
stage in some good way, and I haven't seen any disasters -- or even
close.  We're planning to have more.


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@...>
wrote:
>
> Of course, there is no right answer to this question.  There are
lots
> of things that play a role in determining when is the best time to
> start a family and the place you are at in your science career path
is
> just one consideration.
>
> For me, a good time for my husband and me presented itself when I
> found out I had received a fellowship that would allow me to take a
> break from my 10 quarters of TAing.  Jeremiah was born in March
2007,
> and my fellowship expires in August 2008.  That gives me some time
to
> enjoy my son, finish writing my dissertation, and hopefully conduct
a
> successful job search.  Of course, nothing is perfect, and my pace
is
> now slower and I frequently have to just make do with getting little
> done in a day besides baby stuff.  But having a fellowship certainly
> has helped me to find time to be a mom and still keep writing my
> manuscripts.  I have no idea how it will all change once I'm at a
more
> typical job every day.  But that is a thought for the future....
>
> When have others decided to have a child?  Or did you just have one
> and things fell into place?  Of course, there is biology to consider
> as well - we can only have children until a certain age.
>
> Let us know what your path has been and how/why it worked for you.
>
> -Carolyn
>

It's good to know that other people are making this work. I have a 7
month old daughter and am in the second year of my PhD. I have 3 more
years of funding (stipend) and am currently in the process of applying
for field research grants. I was in the field when I found out I was
pregnant, but by 3 months pregnant, I was back in the states. I took
an intense courseload while pregnant, but then the semester my
daughter was born, I took 1 course and a seminar (I did my M.S. at the
same university, so I was close to completing all my coursework).

When my daughter was 4 months, all of us went back to Brazil and I
worked 1/2 days to complete 2 months of field work. My husband had the
help of a nanny, but my daughter was VERY attached, so it was a struggle.

I'm going back in late October for a couple of months (depends on the
seed production period of the tree that I work with) and I will likely
work 1/2 days and see if I can transition into full days a few times a
week (but maybe not).

I still have field work until summer of 2009 on this same on again off
again schedule, but I have an extremely supportive adviser and have my
daughter in a home day care right down the street for 4 hours a day. I
am very productive during this time and since I work best under
pressure with deadlines, it seems that this will work. I am unsure
what the future holds, but we are happy with our daughter and my
connection to my research (which I find very fulfilling and important)
is still essential - not ready to eschew day care.

Christie

Hi all,
I've been enjoying reading the posts, too.  I have a 22 month old and
recently also got tenure (yay to both!).  I wanted to have children
earlier (I'm now 40) but simply didn't have the partner to make that
possible.  For me, having excellent daycare has been key.  My
daughter goes full-time, and has since she was 3 months old.  She
loves it.  It allows me to focus on work during work, and entirely on
family and fun when I'm not at work.  The daycare is on campus, so
when she was still breast feeding I'd go over during lunch to feed
her and play.  That really helped me feel connected to the daycare
and comfortable with her being there.  If you're doing full-time
daycare, it is critical that the people be loving and caring and
fun.  Seeing how much fun my daughter and all the other kids were
having, and really getting to know the daycare providers made them
seem like extended family.  And, they're professionals!  For example,
no matter how many books I read, I don't think I would have been able
to cajole my daughter into her regular nap routine as quickly or
easily without them. The main downsides are of course not getting to
spend as much time with my daughter and the expense.  It costs almost
as much as our mortgage!  But as others have said, even though the
demands can be high, this job is much more flexible than most,
allowing me to take lots of afternoons off to play and, for example,
go on field trips with the daycare. Graduate students often won't
have the money to pay for daycare full time, which makes that option
less feasible even if you do want it (which I recognize many don't).
Getting a few moms and dads together to share taking care of kids is
another good way to go - I know several people who do that, and
they're able to keep making progress toward their degrees without
going broke and while getting to spend a lot of time with their
children.

I'd say if you're at the stage when you're looking for an advisor and
want to have (or already have) kids, you might want to find someone
who has tenure.  Being pre-tenure can be so stressful that even the
most supportive people might have a hard time not pressuring you to
produce on a schedule that just might not work once you have a
family.  I didn't have to face that as I didn't have any graduate
students with children.  I like to think that I would have been great
about it, but its hard to say without going through it.  Also, talk
to potential advisors ahead of time about having a family to make
certain that you're on the same page as far as expectations, funding,
and timing of getting your degree.

Ruth

I think Monika is absolutely right - you do have to sacrifice
something . . . I went into it thinking I could do it all, but I found
I couldn't commit to full time child care for my son, so I have stayed
in non-tenure academic positions for now.  He had a sitter for about 7
hours a week to cover my lecture periods.

As for getting work down while my son is awake . . . I guess I got
lucky!  He has been pretty good at self entertaining for short periods
of time.  I have a giant toy box at the office and keep the door
closed (limits crawling, walking, and now running down the hall way).
  At home, I have "toddler proofed" and office/playroom, and can put up
a baby gate if needed to keep him close.  We take breaks, but I can
get class preparations done (I teach 2 courses a term) and some other
tasks.  Most manuscript writing comes while daddy is watching him or
he is sleeping.

I have given up the tenure track . . . maybe for now . . . maybe for
good . . . we;ll see what happens.

Hello everyone,

it's been so great to read everyone's stories. I felt the clock
ticking while working on my Ph.D. and really wanted to have a child
but my husband wanted to wait. So we waited and looking back I think
that was better for us. I don't think I would have finished the
degree (for one thing we no longer lived anywhere near my university
and I no longer had any funding). However, I do agree that graduate
school is a good time because no one will wonder why it took you a
year or two more to finish while any interruption in your career
after you graduate will work against you. But I think it's better to
wait at least until your field and lab work is done and you
are 'only' writing because this allows you more flexibility in
schedule and avoids exposure to hazardous things during pregnancy. I
had my son during my postdoc and that worked out very well. I had a
very supportive supervisor who let me work part-time for a year after
my son was born. The advantage of being a postdoc and Mom was
flexibility in my schedule, a good pay check, benefits, and no longer
the fear of never finishing the degree. I was not as productive a
postdoc as my non-Mom colleagues but it was enough to land a tenure
track professor job. The first year was very tough adjusting to being
a professor, the new university, and a new town while taking care of
a 1-year old that doesn't sleep. I don't recommend having a first
baby during this difficult time. Although I wanted a second child, my
husband and I agreed that there was no way we could juggle the two
children (or one and a pregnancy) and the jobs. I am now starting my
3rd year and am expecting another son in December. The children will
be 3 1/2 years apart in age which was a little more than I would have
liked but I feel that this was a good way to juggle both our careers,
having enough time for our first son and not going completely insane.
I found that I am more productive than other colleagues because I
only come to the office to get work done. I don't chat, I minimize e-
mails, I don't waste time with anything not critical. I work about 6
hour days without a break and find that I get just as much done as if
I was here for 8 or 9 hours because my brain can focus for 6 hours
straight and then I need a break. It's exhausting and I am not sure
how long I can maintain this pace but for now it has enabled me to
juggle things and still look good for tenure without putting in the
50 hours otherwise expected. I worry that having another child now
will endanger my tenure but so far my productivity is good and there
are so many other things that might prevent me from getting tenure. I
am rapidly approaching forty and cannot wait any longer. When I
compare myself with female colleagues that chose not to have children
(or get married), I am definitely less productive and successful
because I cannot travel as much or spend as many hours writing
publications and grants. But it's absolutely worth it and so far I am
keeping up alright while I still get to spend quite a bit of time
with my son (especially during the summers). Though there is a lot of
pressure to work in academia, you have more flexibility than in any
other job with a fixed paycheck. I was worried if I could do it but I
really love it. You just have to keep your priorities straight (in my
case my child) and say no and go home instead. Let the others work
through weekends. That said, I am not at a highly prestigious
research university where the pressure would be much higher which I
think is the other key to happiness. It's not possible to get tenure
at Harvard and still spend time with your kids, you have to sacrifice
something.

Monika

Interesting results from your seminar.  I too have found that spending
an extra year on my PhD to have a child has been no problem, BUT that
is because I had all my field work finished (3 summers in extremely
remote Alaskan islands), and all my lab work done (finished about 3
weeks before I gave birth), and I'm on a great fellowship which means
I'm "just" writing and analyzing for the next year.  AND applying for
jobs and trying to write grants for post-docs, etc. etc.  I am
wondering how folks in grad school manage when they have to TA, finish
their field and/or lab work, AND write.  I am guessing the answer is
child care and/or lots of sharing the duties with a partner and
putting off finishing for maybe 2 years.  The other thing I have found
is, for me, it's essential to have a partner (in this case, my
husband), who is committed to helping out as much as possible.  I
still have the bulk of the baby duty, but at least I know I can count
on someone when I HAVE to get something done.

On the other hand, how many of you are WAY more efficient with your
time since you had a kid?  I can't believe how much I get done when my
time window is limited by naps and breast feeding.  I don't bring
Jeremiah to the office, but I do manage to put him to sleep (usually
on me in a sling - he's only 5 months old), and then work on my laptop
until he wakes up.  And then I get nothing done while he's awake either.

I went to the UW for my undergrad - so go Huskies!

Carolyn

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "Eleanor" <frilliams@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a fifth year grad student in physical oceanography at University
> of Washington, and have a 1-year old daughter (or at least she will be
> 1 in 2 weeks!).   I just saw this group posted on the ESWN e-mail list.
>
> My decision to have a baby was based on a brown-bag lunch seminar I
> organized 3 or 4 years ago, titled "Oceanography and Kids" or
> something like that.  I asked 4 of the women in our department to be a
> panel describing their experiences having kids and being in academia
> (3 tenured--full time, part time and on condition of funding, and 1
> postdoc).  The 2 things they all agreed upon were, "grad school is the
> best time, if everything else in your life is in place" since it
> doesn't matter really if you take an extra year to complete your PhD,
> and "couldn't have done it without daycare".
>
> At the time, I'd been planning to wait until a postdoc.  My husband is
> older and wanted kids sooner, and so I thought this brown-bag thing
> would confirm my ideas that postdoc is the best time.  But after
> hearing them all agree, we decided to go for it.  It has slowed me
> down a bit, mostly the lack of sleep I think.  My daughter is teething
> at the moment, so she's up 3-5 times a night.  Even on good nights,
> she's up twice to nurse.  My advisors haven't been unsupportive,
> exactly, but the relationship has changed since I told them I was
> pregnant.  I have been passed by several times for local field
> research opportunities and work that required coming to the office at
> 11pm.
>
> All in all, I'm glad I had my daughter when I did, though it may
> change my eventual career path.  I'm no longer sure that I'll be
> satisfied with a position that involves working 70+hour weeks, or soft
> money like so many of the positions in oceanography.  The idea of
> uprooting my family, now that we have some friends/support-system in
> Seattle is also less attractive than before.  Time will tell.
>
> Eleanor
> http://frilliams.com/baby.html
>
> ps. I'm curious about how people have managed to bring their
> babies/kids to the office and get work done.  I've found that until
> she started walking a month ago, I wasn't able to get any work done
> while she was awake..
>

This is a question that has been on my mind for some time. I am a 34
year old 4th year PhD student with year-round field research in ponds
that receive agricultural run-off. My husband and I want to star our
family, but I am somewhat nervous about subjecting a fetus to
agricultural run-off every few days. Thus, we haven't tried. This
summer my husband was diagnosed with testicular cancer. His prognosis
is very good, but he had to have a testicle removed. I feel like the
clock is ticking with my age and his sperm count, but I am concerned
about trying with my field work. Has anyone else faced a similar
situation? Has exposure to substances in the field or lab during
pregnancy been a concern for anyone?

On another note, my female advisor brought up the subject of children
individually with her students, who all happen to be women. Her advice
generally was to either have a child in grad school, preferably while
writing or when in a more permanent position. A hiring committees
won't think much about it if you take an extra year for grad school,
but they do wonder when you take a year or two off after grad school
before you have a job or postdoc.

My male advisor recommended against having a baby while in grad school
as it has taken longer for his past students to complete and it has
been challenging for them. He wasn't completely discouraging either.
He said I should make the decision based on all of the considerations
in my life.

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "Eleanor" <frilliams@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a fifth year grad student in physical oceanography at University
> of Washington, and have a 1-year old daughter (or at least she will be
> 1 in 2 weeks!). I just saw this group posted on the ESWN e-mail list.
>
> My decision to have a baby was based on a brown-bag lunch seminar I
> organized 3 or 4 years ago, titled "Oceanography and Kids" or
> something like that. I asked 4 of the women in our department to be a
> panel describing their experiences having kids and being in academia
> (3 tenured--full time, part time and on condition of funding, and 1
> postdoc). The 2 things they all agreed upon were, "grad school is the
> best time, if everything else in your life is in place" since it
> doesn't matter really if you take an extra year to complete your PhD,
> and "couldn't have done it without daycare".
>
> At the time, I'd been planning to wait until a postdoc. My husband is
> older and wanted kids sooner, and so I thought this brown-bag thing
> would confirm my ideas that postdoc is the best time. But after
> hearing them all agree, we decided to go for it. It has slowed me
> down a bit, mostly the lack of sleep I think. My daughter is teething
> at the moment, so she's up 3-5 times a night. Even on good nights,
> she's up twice to nurse. My advisors haven't been unsupportive,
> exactly, but the relationship has changed since I told them I was
> pregnant. I have been passed by several times for local field
> research opportunities and work that required coming to the office at
> 11pm.
>
> All in all, I'm glad I had my daughter when I did, though it may
> change my eventual career path. I'm no longer sure that I'll be
> satisfied with a position that involves working 70+hour weeks, or soft
> money like so many of the positions in oceanography. The idea of
> uprooting my family, now that we have some friends/support-system in
> Seattle is also less attractive than before. Time will tell.
>
> Eleanor
> http://frilliams.com/baby.html
>
> ps. I'm curious about how people have managed to bring their
> babies/kids to the office and get work done. I've found that until
> she started walking a month ago, I wasn't able to get any work done
> while she was awake..
>

SO glad to have a "group" to identify with!  I enjoyed the X-Women
articles online awhile back - did anyone else read those?  A group of
successful (but unknown to us) women in the life sciences wrote about
careers and family.
I am the mother of a 1 year old daughter and finished my Ph.D. this
May.  It is a VERY individual decision as of when to have a child and
I think it weighs on so many women in the graduate track.  I planned
it to have my daughter after finishing research and while writing.  I
felt it was a good time as I could write while she napped and still be
home to enjoy her for the first year.  I actually felt more efficient
when working because I completely focused when I sat down at the
computer.  For myself, this was a perfect time to have a child.  I was
anxious about jumping into a post doc and having a child as I was not
sure if it would be an acceptable move - although I think it is very
common.  Has anyone had problems with this?  I am now starting
publications and thinking about the "next move" in my career.  But I
am REALLY battling that time when I will have to leave my daughter
with someone else all day.  It is such a gut-wrenching decision for
me.  I am hopeful I can find a non-traditional office setting to
balance family and work in the near future.  In any case, I would love
to hear everyone else's story and share any information they might
need.

This is a question that has been on my mind for some time.  I am a 34
year old 4th year PhD student with year-round field research in ponds
that receive agricultural run-off.  My husband and I want to star our
family, but I am somewhat nervous about subjecting a fetus to
agricultural run-off every few days.  Thus, we haven't tried.  This
summer my husband was diagnosed with testicular cancer.  His prognosis
is very good, but he had to have a testicle removed.  I feel like the
clock is ticking with my age and his sperm count, but I am concerned
about trying with my field work.  Has anyone else faced a similar
situation?  Has exposure to substances in the field or lab during
pregnancy been a concern for anyone?

On another note, my female advisor brought up the subject of children
individually with her students, who all happen to be women. Her advice
generally was to either have a child in grad school, preferably while
writing or when in a more permanent position.  A hiring committees
won't think much about it if you take an extra year for grad school,
but they do wonder when you take a year or two off after grad school
before you have a job or postdoc.

My male advisor recommended against having a baby while in grad school
as it has taken longer for his past students to complete and it has
been challenging for them. He wasn't completely discouraging either.
He said I should make the decision based on all of the considerations
in my life.


--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "Eleanor" <frilliams@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm a fifth year grad student in physical oceanography at University
> of Washington, and have a 1-year old daughter (or at least she will be
> 1 in 2 weeks!).   I just saw this group posted on the ESWN e-mail list.
>
> My decision to have a baby was based on a brown-bag lunch seminar I
> organized 3 or 4 years ago, titled "Oceanography and Kids" or
> something like that.  I asked 4 of the women in our department to be a
> panel describing their experiences having kids and being in academia
> (3 tenured--full time, part time and on condition of funding, and 1
> postdoc).  The 2 things they all agreed upon were, "grad school is the
> best time, if everything else in your life is in place" since it
> doesn't matter really if you take an extra year to complete your PhD,
> and "couldn't have done it without daycare".
>
> At the time, I'd been planning to wait until a postdoc.  My husband is
> older and wanted kids sooner, and so I thought this brown-bag thing
> would confirm my ideas that postdoc is the best time.  But after
> hearing them all agree, we decided to go for it.  It has slowed me
> down a bit, mostly the lack of sleep I think.  My daughter is teething
> at the moment, so she's up 3-5 times a night.  Even on good nights,
> she's up twice to nurse.  My advisors haven't been unsupportive,
> exactly, but the relationship has changed since I told them I was
> pregnant.  I have been passed by several times for local field
> research opportunities and work that required coming to the office at
> 11pm.
>
> All in all, I'm glad I had my daughter when I did, though it may
> change my eventual career path.  I'm no longer sure that I'll be
> satisfied with a position that involves working 70+hour weeks, or soft
> money like so many of the positions in oceanography.  The idea of
> uprooting my family, now that we have some friends/support-system in
> Seattle is also less attractive than before.  Time will tell.
>
> Eleanor
> http://frilliams.com/baby.html
>
> ps. I'm curious about how people have managed to bring their
> babies/kids to the office and get work done.  I've found that until
> she started walking a month ago, I wasn't able to get any work done
> while she was awake..
>

I'm a fifth year grad student in physical oceanography at University
of Washington, and have a 1-year old daughter (or at least she will be
1 in 2 weeks!).   I just saw this group posted on the ESWN e-mail list.

My decision to have a baby was based on a brown-bag lunch seminar I
organized 3 or 4 years ago, titled "Oceanography and Kids" or
something like that.  I asked 4 of the women in our department to be a
panel describing their experiences having kids and being in academia
(3 tenured--full time, part time and on condition of funding, and 1
postdoc).  The 2 things they all agreed upon were, "grad school is the
best time, if everything else in your life is in place" since it
doesn't matter really if you take an extra year to complete your PhD,
and "couldn't have done it without daycare".

At the time, I'd been planning to wait until a postdoc.  My husband is
older and wanted kids sooner, and so I thought this brown-bag thing
would confirm my ideas that postdoc is the best time.  But after
hearing them all agree, we decided to go for it.  It has slowed me
down a bit, mostly the lack of sleep I think.  My daughter is teething
at the moment, so she's up 3-5 times a night.  Even on good nights,
she's up twice to nurse.  My advisors haven't been unsupportive,
exactly, but the relationship has changed since I told them I was
pregnant.  I have been passed by several times for local field
research opportunities and work that required coming to the office at
11pm.

All in all, I'm glad I had my daughter when I did, though it may
change my eventual career path.  I'm no longer sure that I'll be
satisfied with a position that involves working 70+hour weeks, or soft
money like so many of the positions in oceanography.  The idea of
uprooting my family, now that we have some friends/support-system in
Seattle is also less attractive than before.  Time will tell.

Eleanor
http://frilliams.com/baby.html

ps. I'm curious about how people have managed to bring their
babies/kids to the office and get work done.  I've found that until
she started walking a month ago, I wasn't able to get any work done
while she was awake..

I am probably older than most of you as my children are 16 and 21-
  however, I'm interested in the questions/solutions you all are
  struggling with and may occasionally 'lurk'.

  It never occurred to me to ask when a 'good time' would be to have a
  family.  My first pregnancy was not planned but was the impetus that
catapulted me towards completing my Bachelors. My second child was 6
months old when I started my Master's program.  My major professor
was a bit skeptical about my 'dedication' to the program (read "could
I handle it all?" I think!). Ultimately, he may have been right; being
a parent trumped field - research.  None the less, I did complete my
Masters. It was not uncommon to have my children at presentations or
even classroom lectures with me.

AT that juncture in my career, I realized I wanted to spend more
time with my children. I felt they were growing too quickly and I was
missing out on a lot. So, I put my research career on hold, took on a
job in the field of education and now that they're getting older, I
find  I have time to reexamine 'rediscover' me and my interests. Turns
out I'm much more interested in the field of science education reform
than (at this stage) spending too many nights outdoors. Field research
remains to me a fun, mostly volunteer, definitely part-time endeavor.

I know this may not directly answer your needs and questions but I
guess I'm trying to say that there is no 'right' or even 'best' time
to  start a family except for what is right for you. Each decision,
each choice will result in unique challenges and rewards. At the risk
of sounding like an old hippie (a parent?) do what feels right for you!

> My $0.02! Ana
>
> Oh and I started my family at 27 or 28! and remember that what it
> takes to support a family is relative.
>

I have so enjoyed reading other women's experiences juggling family
and academia and feel compelled to share my own experience.

One of the major issues for my husband and I in deciding when to have
children was working around my field season. My research takes place
in a remote area in Rwanda; I was not interested in having my first
child abroad nor in chasing primates around steep and difficult
terrain whilst pregnant! We decided to wait until after my master's
field work was completed to begin trying. I gave birth about 3/4 into
the writing stages of my master's and, like Cheryl, had the financial
support of a fellowship and my husband to enable me to concentrate
solely on school. I took off approximately 5 months before placing my
daughter in daycare (3 days a week) and managed to progress in the
doctoral program along side and even ahead of some of my peers without
children! My second field season in Rwanda came when our daughter,
Senna, was about 20 months. We tossed around ideas and decided that it
made more financial and logistical sense for us to go as a family for
the duration of my field season, 12+ months. This was a big decision
for us as a family and one that I reached only after many thoughtful
discussions with other researchers who had had their children
accompany them in the field. There were certainly risks to be
considered but ultimately we felt the benefits outweighed the risks;
our feelings on this have not changed. Senna really blossomed in
Rwanda and my husband enjoyed being primary caretaker of her
throughout the year.

We returned from Rwanda only recently (May 2007) and about 9 weeks
pregnant with child number two. Originally we had thought we would
delay having a second child until after I had completed my doctorate
but then we started to think about what that really meant, i.e.
starting a new position pregnant or with a nursing baby. And so, we
went for it. . . I still have the support of a fellowship and my
husband's income to enable me to concentrate on writing and analysis.
Senna is in daycare still three days a week which works well for me.
Clearly the second baby's arrival will slow me down but I am at peace
with this and do not feel it will in any way reduce my competitiveness
in the job market. I have managed to publish, attend and present at
professional meetings, be involved in some work on environmental
education outreach, AND have a *limited* social life. We do have to be
careful about expenditures but live on a limited income very
comfortably. Quite frankly my concern is more how my life will change
once I have received my degree and start a more regimented work
schedule that may not enable me to spend as much time with my children!

Thank you again for this listserv and look forward to hearing more
stories from others!

Sincerely,
Nicole

I am so happy that you started this group!  I am a "non-traditional"
student, having started a PhD program after being in a career position
already. I found that the skills I needed to do what I really wanted to
do were to be found through a doctoral program in Geography, so here I
am in the final stages of a PhD. I was already married and had one
child, who was born while I was in a tenure track position (Masters was
the terminal degree in that field). After "demoting" myself to a grad
student (albeit with an unusual perspective), I really enjoyed the
freedom that my student status gave me to spend time with my toddler. As
we all know, every birth control method has the potential for failure,
and, as luck would have it, it failed me not once, but twice! Hence, I
am the proud mama of three beautiful boys. I can truly say that I've
experienced having babies as a tenure-track professor, a grad student
and a PhD candidate!

Lucky for me, my advisor, committee members and department Chair are all
very understanding of my situation, having spouses and children
themselves. I have never felt that being a parent was a negative, or
that I was discriminated against. That said, life definitely changes
after children, and the typical life of a grad student is not what I
live. Every day I have to get my kids to school and day care and go to
work. I don't do happy hour or hang out in the grad lab any more. At
work, I'm working, not chatting. At 4:30 I'm on my way out the door to
get the kids.

Although it's been a long and challenging road, we are nearing the end.
Chapter 2 of the dissertation was published earlier this year. I'm
working on the analysis for Chapters 3 and 4. My committee's stance has
been that as long as I am making progress toward the degree, they are
satisfied. It hasn't been easy. However, the sacrifice has never been so
sweet as when I get a smile or "big hug" from my 19-month old, or watch
my 5th grader excel and my 1st grader read his first book. For me, it
has been worth it. But, these are the priorities I have chosen (and
which also chose me).

I will probably never win any awards for production, and I have a
diminished presence in the Department amongst my peers. My skills and
experience make up for a bit of that, and I've never had trouble finding
work. I look for opportunities with "like-minded" individuals. I
purposefully sought out committee members who had children of their own,
and who were understanding of the changes and chances that life
sometimes throws at us. I sometimes wish there were more financial
support for parents trying to get through academic jobs and raise and
support families, but that kind of thinking doesn't really get me very
far.  While I'm grateful for the patience and understanding of the
faculty I interact with, I'm concerned about trends I see at the
University and Grad School level. Now more than ever, it seems they are
focused on producing people with degrees, with timelines getting tighter
and funding also so tight. So perhaps things won't be as flexible for
newer students.

One positive at this point is that, when I do finish, I'll be able to
move forward into an academic position or other research job without the
impending worry of nurturing a newborn. Nevertheless, all kids need
love, consideration and time with their parents, so any job I'll be
going for will need to be able to provide for a reasonable amount of
that. My job is not my life, but it is what makes my life more fulfilling.

Alisa.

Hi! And thanks for starting the discussion....

My husband and I originally wanted to start our family as I was
finishing grad school, but my health got in the way. I was in the
middle of a postdoc before things were settled enough to think about
trying again, and my son was born while I was on a postdoctoral
fellowship. (Somewhat similar flexibility to being a student, but with
the added bonus of benefits like banked vacation time to take as
maternity leave.)

My son is now 3, and I'm about to start my 4th year in a tenure-track
position (he was ~4 months old when I started). He's in full-time
daycare/preschool and really loves it at this age. I get a lot done
after he goes to bed =^)

The best time? Not sure there is one. They all have pluses and
minuses, and you'll probably find people who have reproduced at all
the likely stages. <grin>

Cheryl

I am finishing my Master's this semester and considering applying for a
PhD program.  I am 27 and my husband is 30 and we have put off starting
a family because we have been in low paying jobs as research techs or
grad students for the last five years.  We are sick and tired of
waiting and want to start a family NOW!  However, part of my decision
about pursuing a PhD at all centers on the idea that being a parent
while you are a graduate student is looked down upon, even though you
are in your reproductive prime!  It's not like the job pays enough to
support a family either!  I feel like this is discrimination against
women, children, and families and that academia is asking me to give up
my reproductive fitness in order to fit into some old-fashioned
patriarchal society, totally against what it purports to believe.
Please tell me that it doesn't have to be like this and give me the
secrets to finding a program and advisor that is supportive of my
intellect and desire to have children!

I waited until finishing my PhD and starting a PostDoc to start a
family.  I now have a 16-month old and two part time (= 1 full time)
positions, I am a Lecturer and still a PostDoc - 3 years after
graduation.  I hope that staying productive will lead to good things
in the future, especially since I would like my son to have a sibling
soon.  Thanks for starting this group - it is refreshing just to know
that everyone is out there in the cyber community.  Things change when
you have a child, for example, I no longer work all day and night at
the office!  It is hard, but fun.  I must say, I have an amazing boss,
and have brought my son into the office a lot.  Don't know how I could
have done it otherwise!

-Kelly

Fist I would like to say that am excited about this group and find comfort in
knowing that
others are braving this journey. Obiviously! But here we can share advice on how
to make
it all work. I completed my bachelors a few yrs ago and knowing I wanted to
prusue a
graduate degree (MS and possibly a PhD) in the future I still opted to have a
child first. So
school starts next week and I have an 18 mo. I am excited about the fact that as
a student,
your schedule can be pretty felxible, so I am optimistic that there will be time
for school
and family fun and responsibilities--and hopfully time for a shower every once
in while.
Ha! Now seemed to be a god time to have a child b/c of my husband's age (he is
10 yrs
older than I am) and b/c despite the demands of grad school I expect to still
have alot of
time w/ my little one by  working during odd hours like early morning and
nights. My son
will be in childcare 3 days a wk and with a grand parent 1 day a week.
I hope this group is successful, I look forward to sharing thoughts, concerns,
and advice
with oneanother--especially as none of the students in my department are
parents.

--- In scienceandfamilies@yahoogroups.com, "carolynkurle" <kurle@...> wrote:
>
> Of course, there is no right answer to this question.  There are lots
> of things that play a role in determining when is the best time to
> start a family and the place you are at in your science career path is
> just one consideration.
>
> For me, a good time for my husband and me presented itself when I
> found out I had received a fellowship that would allow me to take a
> break from my 10 quarters of TAing.  Jeremiah was born in March 2007,
> and my fellowship expires in August 2008.  That gives me some time to
> enjoy my son, finish writing my dissertation, and hopefully conduct a
> successful job search.  Of course, nothing is perfect, and my pace is
> now slower and I frequently have to just make do with getting little
> done in a day besides baby stuff.  But having a fellowship certainly
> has helped me to find time to be a mom and still keep writing my
> manuscripts.  I have no idea how it will all change once I'm at a more
> typical job every day.  But that is a thought for the future....
>
> When have others decided to have a child?  Or did you just have one
> and things fell into place?  Of course, there is biology to consider
> as well - we can only have children until a certain age.
>
> Let us know what your path has been and how/why it worked for you.
>
> -Carolyn
>

Of course, there is no right answer to this question.  There are lots
of things that play a role in determining when is the best time to
start a family and the place you are at in your science career path is
just one consideration.

For me, a good time for my husband and me presented itself when I
found out I had received a fellowship that would allow me to take a
break from my 10 quarters of TAing.  Jeremiah was born in March 2007,
and my fellowship expires in August 2008.  That gives me some time to
enjoy my son, finish writing my dissertation, and hopefully conduct a
successful job search.  Of course, nothing is perfect, and my pace is
now slower and I frequently have to just make do with getting little
done in a day besides baby stuff.  But having a fellowship certainly
has helped me to find time to be a mom and still keep writing my
manuscripts.  I have no idea how it will all change once I'm at a more
typical job every day.  But that is a thought for the future....

When have others decided to have a child?  Or did you just have one
and things fell into place?  Of course, there is biology to consider
as well - we can only have children until a certain age.

Let us know what your path has been and how/why it worked for you.

-Carolyn