This is looking like a great event, think there is tonnes to be said
about this issue, so will be glad to come along and help out.

Couple of things:

1) it's really hard to find this group (towards the bottom of the blog
home page) - could a link be chucked on the sidebar near the top of
the home page so it's obvious for people to sign up to?

2) has a common tag for blogging, delicious, flickr, youtube etc been
defined? I guess 'scriptingenabled' would do the job. I could throw
together a public aggregator using Pageflakes if it would be useful?
Not sure how accessible it will be tho' ;-)

Cheers

Dave

I am proud to announce "the schedule for the two days of scripting
enabled":/schedule/ and also that "Jeroen
Wijering":http://www.jeroenwijering.com/ will be coming over to
Scripting Enabled to get first-hand information about accessibility
and online video and implement it in his amazing JW player. The JW
player is the de-facto standard open source player for Flash video in
Web Sites and lately also got a Silverlight build.
I'll get Jeroen also to meet with the BBC and Yahoo's online video
divisions to see what can be done about accessibility of our systems.

Things are shaping up, and I am a-tingeling :)

The schedule:


Fact Finding Day (Friday, 19th of September)

Here's the preliminary schedule for the Fact Finding Day:

9.15 Welcome and Introductions
9.30 Taking Scripting Enabled further
10.00 Denise Stephens - Enabled By Design - Barriers faced by people
with changing conditions.
10.30 Coffee Break
11.00 Kath Moonan - AbilityNet - What barriers need removal?
12.00 Antonia Hyde - United Response - Learning disabilities and
online content
13.00 Lunch
14.00 Artur Ortega - Yahoo! and + Special Guest - Barriers for
Screenreaders and how JavaScript can help
15.00 Phil Teare - Textic - Dyslexia barriers and Masher Nations (a
possible solution)
16.00 End Panel
16.45 Planning Session for day two
17.00 Off to a pub
Hack Day (Saturday, 20th of September)

10.00 Meet
10.01 - 16.00 Hack, Hack, Hack
16.00 - 17.00 Present and plan follow-up
17.01 Off to a pub

What about WAI-ARIA? I don't see it mentioned in the topics.

It seems to me that WAI-ARIA is fundamental to the whole effort of
making script accessible.

- Aaron

--- In scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...>
wrote:
>
> What about WAI-ARIA? I don't see it mentioned in the topics.
>
> It seems to me that WAI-ARIA is fundamental to the whole effort of
> making script accessible.
>
> - Aaron
>

This is a fact finding day, not a technology showcase. I agree that
WAI-ARIA is the way forward, but I disagree that it is fundamental to
making script accessible. Easy YouTube doesn't use WAI-ARIA yet and
works fine with screen readers.

I deliberately chose not to have technical speakers as I want to
confront the hackers in the audience with the human issues to find
solutions for, not a purely technical challenge. The screen reader
presentation however will show some WAI-ARIA solutions we use in Yahoo.

The US installment of Scripting Enabled will be more technical, I suppose.

cheers
Chris

The thing about accessibility with screenreaders is that often we have
to look backwards for a solution. i.e. dwelling on older technology and
allowing screenreader manufacturers to stagnate, sit pretty, and not
significantly update their product.

If WAI-aria buys into newer technology and allows for a path forward
rather than backward, then that's all good and needs encouragement
rather than going back for older solutions. It may solve the immediate
access problem but not future ones.

...Damon


-----Original Message-----
From: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of icantdom
Sent: 02 September 2008 13:14
To: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scriptingenabled] Re: Schedule is now live!

--- In scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...>
wrote:
>
> What about WAI-ARIA? I don't see it mentioned in the topics.
>
> It seems to me that WAI-ARIA is fundamental to the whole effort of
> making script accessible.
>
> - Aaron
>

This is a fact finding day, not a technology showcase. I agree that
WAI-ARIA is the way forward, but I disagree that it is fundamental to
making script accessible. Easy YouTube doesn't use WAI-ARIA yet and
works fine with screen readers.

I deliberately chose not to have technical speakers as I want to
confront the hackers in the audience with the human issues to find
solutions for, not a purely technical challenge. The screen reader
presentation however will show some WAI-ARIA solutions we use in Yahoo.

The US installment of Scripting Enabled will be more technical, I
suppose.

cheers
Chris



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on
it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

As I see it WAI ARIA is the solution not the problem.
Day one of scriptingenabled is about identifying the barriers and day two is a
chance to build some barrier free solutions. If the right people are there and
it's appropriate for the solution to be developed then hopefully we'll see ARIA
being leveraged.


Adrian Higginbotham,
Manager, Leading edge research
Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994
Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@...
Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ


-----Original Message-----
From: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Damon Rose
Sent: 02 September 2008 13:50
To: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [scriptingenabled] Re: Schedule is now live!

The thing about accessibility with screenreaders is that often we have to look
backwards for a solution. i.e. dwelling on older technology and allowing
screenreader manufacturers to stagnate, sit pretty, and not significantly update
their product.

If WAI-aria buys into newer technology and allows for a path forward rather than
backward, then that's all good and needs encouragement rather than going back
for older solutions. It may solve the immediate access problem but not future
ones.

...Damon


-----Original Message-----
From: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of icantdom
Sent: 02 September 2008 13:14
To: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [scriptingenabled] Re: Schedule is now live!

--- In scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...>
wrote:
>
> What about WAI-ARIA? I don't see it mentioned in the topics.
>
> It seems to me that WAI-ARIA is fundamental to the whole effort of
> making script accessible.
>
> - Aaron
>

This is a fact finding day, not a technology showcase. I agree that WAI-ARIA is
the way forward, but I disagree that it is fundamental to making script
accessible. Easy YouTube doesn't use WAI-ARIA yet and works fine with screen
readers.

I deliberately chose not to have technical speakers as I want to confront the
hackers in the audience with the human issues to find solutions for, not a
purely technical challenge. The screen reader presentation however will show
some WAI-ARIA solutions we use in Yahoo.

The US installment of Scripting Enabled will be more technical, I suppose.

cheers
Chris



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




http://www.bbc.co.uk/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views
which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on
it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

>Damon Rose wrote:
  >
  > If WAI-aria buys into newer technology and allows for a path forward
  > rather than backward, then that's all good and needs encouragement
  > rather than going back for older solutions. It may solve the immediate
  > access problem but not future ones.

Keep in mind that WAI-ARIA makes it a lot easier for us to solve future
problems. It's not just a solution for current problems, but provides a
more general mechanism for adding accessibility information to web content.

I'm glad people will be looking at what the problems are without
specifically thinking about the solution. It will also be a good
exercise to see how WAI-ARIA would solve these problems.

Right now, the process of adding new features to WAI-ARIA has to be:
1) Draft proposal
2) Submit to W3C for discussion
3) If it gets in, make sure browsers expose the new WAI-ARIA semantics
correctly
4) Convince screen reader and other AT developers to utilize the new
information

In the future, we hope to simplify this process quite a bit. However, at
least there is a way forward. It's not necessary to be stuck in a rut.

- Aaorn

Still, I'd change the emphasis. Why not spend the majority of time on
how to actually solve problems now, rather than just saying what the
problems are?

So much work has been put into this -- into specs, browsers, JavaScript
toolkits, screen readers, docs, etc. Right now the word isn't out there
about what can be done.

- Aaron
> Manager, Leading edge research
> Tel: Direct dial 024 7679 7333 - Becta switchboard 02476-416994
> Email: Adrian.Higginbotham@...
> Web: http://www.becta.org.uk/
> BECTA, Millburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry, CV4 7JJ
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Damon Rose
> Sent: 02 September 2008 13:50
> To: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [scriptingenabled] Re: Schedule is now live!
>
> The thing about accessibility with screenreaders is that often we have to look
backwards for a solution. i.e. dwelling on older technology and allowing
screenreader manufacturers to stagnate, sit pretty, and not significantly update
their product.
>
> If WAI-aria buys into newer technology and allows for a path forward rather
than backward, then that's all good and needs encouragement rather than going
back for older solutions. It may solve the immediate access problem but not
future ones.
>
> ...Damon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of icantdom
> Sent: 02 September 2008 13:14
> To: scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scriptingenabled] Re: Schedule is now live!
>
> --- In scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Leventhal<aaron@...>
> wrote:
>
>> What about WAI-ARIA? I don't see it mentioned in the topics.
>>
>> It seems to me that WAI-ARIA is fundamental to the whole effort of
>> making script accessible.
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>
> This is a fact finding day, not a technology showcase. I agree that WAI-ARIA
is the way forward, but I disagree that it is fundamental to making script
accessible. Easy YouTube doesn't use WAI-ARIA yet and works fine with screen
readers.
>
> I deliberately chose not to have technical speakers as I want to confront the
hackers in the audience with the human issues to find solutions for, not a
purely technical challenge. The screen reader presentation however will show
some WAI-ARIA solutions we use in Yahoo.
>
> The US installment of Scripting Enabled will be more technical, I suppose.
>
> cheers
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
> If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
> Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on
it and notify the sender immediately.
> Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
> Further communication will signify your consent to this.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Aaron,

Isn't that the topic of the second day? (although, agreed, the crowds
will be smaller)

On 9/2/08, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...> wrote:
> Still, I'd change the emphasis. Why not spend the majority of time on
>  how to actually solve problems now, rather than just saying what the
>  problems are?
>
>  So much work has been put into this -- into specs, browsers, JavaScript
>  toolkits, screen readers, docs, etc. Right now the word isn't out there
>  about what can be done.
>
>
>  - Aaron
>
> > Manager, Leading edge research
--
St�phane Deschamps
perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/
org: http://www.pompage.net/

Well you know what I think :) I think we need to start showing the big
crowd how to solve problems now. It can be directly with WAI-ARIA or by
using YUI/Dojo/GWT whatever.

The define the problems is a great intro to how to solve them. And
defining deeper problems could be a great intro to the start of the
hacking session.

But, I'm starting to feel like I'm being difficult, so enough said by me
now :)

- Aaron

Stephane Deschamps wrote:
>
> Aaron,
>
> Isn't that the topic of the second day? (although, agreed, the crowds
> will be smaller)
>
> On 9/2/08, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...
> <mailto:aaron%40moonset.net>> wrote:
> > Still, I'd change the emphasis. Why not spend the majority of time on
> > how to actually solve problems now, rather than just saying what the
> > problems are?
> >
> > So much work has been put into this -- into specs, browsers, JavaScript
> > toolkits, screen readers, docs, etc. Right now the word isn't out there
> > about what can be done.
> >
> >
> > - Aaron
> >
> > > Manager, Leading edge research
> --
> St�phane Deschamps
> perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/ <http://www.nota-bene.org/>
> org: http://www.pompage.net/ <http://www.pompage.net/>
>
>

Maybe the blog will show solutons afterwards. Chris ?

On 9/2/08, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...> wrote:
> Well you know what I think :) I think we need to start showing the big
>  crowd how to solve problems now. It can be directly with WAI-ARIA or by
>  using YUI/Dojo/GWT whatever.
>
>  The define the problems is a great intro to how to solve them. And
>  defining deeper problems could be a great intro to the start of the
>  hacking session.
>
>  But, I'm starting to feel like I'm being difficult, so enough said by me
>  now :)
>
>  - Aaron
>
>
>  Stephane Deschamps wrote:
>  >
>  > Aaron,
>  >
>  > Isn't that the topic of the second day? (although, agreed, the crowds
>  > will be smaller)
>  >
>  > On 9/2/08, Aaron Leventhal <aaron@...
>
> > <mailto:aaron%40moonset.net>> wrote:
>  > > Still, I'd change the emphasis. Why not spend the majority of time on
>  > > how to actually solve problems now, rather than just saying what the
>  > > problems are?
>  > >
>  > > So much work has been put into this -- into specs, browsers, JavaScript
>  > > toolkits, screen readers, docs, etc. Right now the word isn't out there
>  > > about what can be done.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > - Aaron
>  > >
>  > > > Manager, Leading edge research
>  > --
>  > St�phane Deschamps
>
> > perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/ <http://www.nota-bene.org/>
>  > org: http://www.pompage.net/ <http://www.pompage.net/>
>
> >
>  >
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------------
>
>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
St�phane Deschamps
perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/
org: http://www.pompage.net/

Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>
> Well you know what I think :) I think we need to start showing the big
> crowd how to solve problems now. It can be directly with WAI-ARIA or by
> using YUI/Dojo/GWT whatever.
>
> The define the problems is a great intro to how to solve them. And
> defining deeper problems could be a great intro to the start of the
> hacking session.
>
> But, I'm starting to feel like I'm being difficult, so enough said by me
> now :)
>
> - Aaron
>
















My talk at this year's @media Ajax is about Scripting Enabled, so there
I will show it to the JavaScript crowd, much more suitable. Any examples
and input from you is greatly appreciated!

cheers
Chris

>
> > Still, I'd change the emphasis. Why not spend the majority of time on
> > how to actually solve problems now, rather than just saying what the
> > problems are?
> >
> > So much work has been put into this -- into specs, browsers, JavaScript
> > toolkits, screen readers, docs, etc. Right now the word isn't out there
> > about what can be done.
>











Well, how exactly is WAI-ARIA helping the needs of people with learning
disabilities or the hard of hearing? Day one is about opening our
horizons as developers to understand that to develop *real* accessible
products we need to listen to and talk to people who know the issues we
are trying to solve. Technology can help us there, but as tech geeks we
are far too fast to say we use technology XYZ and it'll solve
everything. Scripting Enabled is also about bridging the communication
barriers between non-tech and tech people, something in my experience is
one of the major issues of accessible development out there. Tech folk
don't want to heard details and non-tech folk go to sleep when people
start talking about markup changes and adding attributes.

As to the word not being out there - nobody is stopping you. I am
promoting any good article on WAI-ARIA on Ajaxian, Yahoo Developer
Network and my communication channels - happily. Bring it on :)



Chris

The BBC backstage interviewed me about scripting enabled. Here are the
videos:

* "Watch the video on normal
YouTube":http://youtube.com/watch?v=qie-N8idatc
* "Watch the video on Easy
YouTube":http://icant.co.uk/easy-youtube/?http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=qie-N8id\
atc
* "Watch higher quality video on blip.tv":http://blip.tv/file/1242160

Hi I'm Hiro, a leader of the Social Accessibility Project in IBM, and
also working for ACTF project in Eclipse.org.
Thank you for introducing our project in the blog. ;)
We are so interested in the conference, but I will be on a trip...
Do you plan to publish presentations on the site?

Thank you.
Hiro

Hi all,

Sorry if it's not the right place to tell Chris about it: due to the
Eurostar's problems, going to London this Friday will be too hasardous
for me (especially the going-back-to-France at night on Saturday).

So I had to cancel.

Chris, here is one seat that's freed itself for both the conference
and workshop days.

I'm really sad to miss it...

--
St�phane Deschamps
perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/
org: http://www.pompage.net/

--- In scriptingenabled@yahoogroups.com, "hironobu.takagi"
<hironobu.takagi@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I'm Hiro, a leader of the Social Accessibility Project in IBM, and
> also working for ACTF project in Eclipse.org.
> Thank you for introducing our project in the blog. ;)
> We are so interested in the conference, but I will be on a trip...
> Do you plan to publish presentations on the site?
>
> Thank you.
> Hiro
>

Sure, we will publish all the things that are produced at Scripting
Enabled.

I am going through the last minute planning of the event, and hope
those on the group that signed up for the event are as psyched as I am
about coming around.

There is a slight change in the schedule: as Phil Teare doesn't feel
well, Jonathan Hassell of the BBC will fill in to talk about dyslexia
and I got Ann McMeekin to come in as an expert for the panel.

I also promise that one of these days I will get some sleep :)

regards
Chris

Hi everyone,

Due to my heavy work load I am not going to make it on Friday but
after discussing about accessibility issues today at @mediaAjax I
would like to add something for discussion if you have time.

We have been looking at adding an events calender to our website and I
was wondering if there have been any tests on what works well for
screen reader users.

The sort of calender I am thinking about you can see on
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/ or (with slightly less javascript)
http://www.barbican.org.uk/.

I would be interested in seeing whether a calender like this is usable
or how it could be made usable.  If it is not possible what
alternative would screen reader users prefer a different method.

I look forward to any comments you have.

Thanks

Phil
britishmuseum.org

Wow, thanks so much for everyone coming and making this happen. I am
still not quite sure what happened, but I am quite sure it was good!

cheers
Chris

On 9/19/08, icantdom <chris.heilmann@...> wrote:
> Wow, thanks so much for everyone coming and making this happen. I am
>  still not quite sure what happened, but I am quite sure it was good!

A toast from the parisians who couldn't make it!

--
St�phane Deschamps
perso: http://www.nota-bene.org/
org: http://www.pompage.net/

As transcribing the videos and hosting them takes up more time than I
planned, here are the audio recordings of the talks in MP3 format:

http://scriptingenabled.org/2008/10/scripting-enabled-london-audio-files-now-ava\
ilable/

cheers
Chris

Guys, check this out! 12.6m Euro investment in open source
accessibilty solutions!


---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Peter Korn

I am *very* pleased to share with you news about the AEGIS project, a
��12.6m investment in accessibility, with the vast majority of it focused
on open source solutions.

Rather than repeat here all that I have written about AEGIS already, I
will instead invite you to read about it in my blog:
http://blogs.sun.com/korn/ or check out the AEGIS website at:
http://www.aegis-project.eu/

I have worked in the field of accessibility for nearly 17 years, and on
open source accessibility almost a dozen of those years.  In that time,
open source accessibility has become a deep and abiding passion.

I'm very proud that the techniques we have pioneered in the open source
community have since been adopted by Apple with the Macintosh &
VoiceOver,
and are being adopted by Microsoft with UI Automation.  These same
techniques are enshrined in the report a 42 member committee delivered
to
the U.S. Access Board earlier this year (and which at this very moment
being reviewed by them as they work on their refresh of the Section 508
accessibility standard).  And these techniques are at the core of the
AEGIS
project.

With AEGIS, over the next 3.5 years we will attempt to bring
programmatic
accessibility more fully to the web, and to the mobile world.  With
AEGIS
we will also address a number of issues that still remain in
accessibility
on the open desktop.  And while we're at it, we will bring a bunch of
new
and talented people into the open source accessibility community (you
should start seeing them showing up on our mailing lists and wikis in
the
coming months).  We will also fund a number of the experts who have
already
made tremendous open source accessibility contributions - to enable to
them
to continue and to do even more.  I'm sure they will shortly make their
voices heard on these lists and in the blogosphere.  And we will
explicitly
fund a number of European disability organizations.  These organizations
and many dozens of their members will be providing their expert input on
our work, and thoughtfully evaluating our prototypes, and perhaps
adopting
the solutions we come up with because they do a great job of meeting
their
needs.

Oh, and we'll also write a bunch of open source accessibility code.


This Sunday the 19th of October marks the 8th anniversary of the GNOME
Accessibility Project.  AEGIS helps bring a fantastic 8th year to a
close,
and also serves to inaugurate the next 3.5 years!


Regards,

Peter Korn
Accessibility Architect & Principal Engineer,
Sun Microsystems, Inc.

Todd Kloots from the YUI team seems to be unstoppable right now. I
give the developer world a cool tutorial on how to set up a test
computer with screen readers, including virtualization:
http://yuiblog.com/blog/2008/12/30/configuring-screen-readers/

http://scriptingenabled.org/2009/01/video-denise-stephens-on-multiple-sclerosis-\
at-scripting-enabled-london/

I am so proud that these are coming in! Thanks again to the BBC
Backstage for filming, Yahoo Developer Network for Hosting and Opera
for transcribing this.

More to come soon :)

cheers
chris

Today Funny Saying of the day picked up from our Funny Sayings Collection

------------------------------------
Men are like parking spots, the good ones are taken and the free ones
are handicapped. To cease smoking is the easiest thing. I ought to
know. I've done it a thousand times. Murphy was an optimist. Never
take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway. The only thing that
stops God from sending another flood is that the first one was useless.
-----------------------------------

for more Funny sayings visit http://funnysayings4u.com/