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Yefim Natis is sure that ""SOA is integration"   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #12184 of 14049 |
Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Yefim Natis is sure that ""SOA is integration"

Two things here

1) The BSB/DSB model I've talked about for yonks is exactly about the
federated SOA model
2) Its the MODELS that matter and the TECHNOLOGY that integrates.

Its the last line however that is completely true (and not in-line
with the integration comment).

"SOA is less a technology than a way to dependably extract business
value from technology. It is a journey, and it involves work."

Hallelujah

Now that is the reality.

Steve


2008/12/16 Michael Poulin <m3poulin@...>:
> This is what I've received today by e-mail from the SearchSOA.com
>
> Gartner's Yefim Natis is sure that "SOA is integration". Are we getting
> anywhere with this opinion?
>
> "You can only do it in parts of a domain where you have control." - sounds
> to me like you can make some money "in parts" (hey, it is the financial
> crisis, dude) and do not even think about approaching your Business telling
> them that they might make much more money if they do it top-down for the
> real business parts (that cannot be small by nature).
>
> Thanks to such "experts", "This past summer was a cold one for SOA". Indeed,
> a keyboard (especially, wireless) is not the best tool for nut-cracking; why
> we need it at all?
>
> What can we do to slow down spreading such Integration SOA madness?
>
> - Michael
>
>
> FROM THE EDITOR
>
>
> Gartner AADI Summit: SOA going into 2009
> [Jack Vaughan]
>
> Several years into the SOA era of application and integration development,
> SOA continues on without a full consensus opinion of what SOA is.
>
> Yet there were plenty of takes on what SOA is at this year's Gartner's
> Application Architecture, Development & Integration Summit 2008 in Las
> Vegas, and while the definitions and prognostications on SOA remained
> diverse, a picture emerges.
>
> It does seem one great trait of SOA is that it is an ongoing process. Its
> goal is to favorably and repeatedly change development outcomes based around
> logically partitioned services. It shares this goal with predecessor
> components, objects and elements of CASE methodologies. But it is different.
>
> The idea that 'one SOA fits all' may be fading. "SOA is integration. It is a
> strategic initiative," said Gartner analyst Yefim Natis. "You can only do it
> in parts of a domain where you have control."
>
> One SOA at a time
> At last week's Gartner Summit, Natis discussed varieties of SOA, and pointed
> to the fact that many companies are instituting SOAs, but they are doing so
> without a singular architectural blueprint for all IT. Some people,
> according to Natis, are starting to try to federate their 'domain SOAs'
> based on agreed-to interoperability protocols and transports that span the
> full organization.
>
> Sometimes, things are best seen in comparison to what they are not. In this
> example, the 'anti-SOA' may be seen as the mainframe application of yore.
> Said Natis: "The monolithic application is the other side of SOA." In other
> words, a SOA is not part of just one app.
>
> This past summer was a cold one for SOA, with critics tossing barbs, and
> denigrating aspects of SOA. Some criticism may be well placed. The Gartner
> conference brought to mind a paraphrase of an old Elvis Costello song:
> 'What's so funny about shareable, swappable and modular?' SOA is less a
> technology than a way to dependably extract business value from technology.
> It is a journey, and it involves work.
>
> Read more about the Gartner Summit.
>
>
>
> Gartner AADI Summit: SOA going into 2009
> [Jack Vaughan]
>
> Several years into the SOA era of application and integration development,
> SOA continues on without a full consensus opinion of what SOA is.
>
> Yet there were plenty of takes on what SOA is at this year's Gartner's
> Application Architecture, Development & Integration Summit 2008 in Las
> Vegas, and while the definitions and prognostications on SOA remained
> diverse, a picture emerges.
>
> It does seem one great trait of SOA is that it is an ongoing process. Its
> goal is to favorably and repeatedly change development outcomes based around
> logically partitioned services. It shares this goal with predecessor
> components, objects and elements of CASE methodologies. But it is different.
>
> The idea that 'one SOA fits all' may be fading. "SOA is integration. It is a
> strategic initiative," said Gartner analyst Yefim Natis. "You can only do it
> in parts of a domain where you have control."
>
> One SOA at a time
> At last week's Gartner Summit, Natis discussed varieties of SOA, and pointed
> to the fact that many companies are instituting SOAs, but they are doing so
> without a singular architectural blueprint for all IT. Some people,
> according to Natis, are starting to try to federate their 'domain SOAs'
> based on agreed-to interoperability protocols and transports that span the
> full organization.
>
> Sometimes, things are best seen in comparison to what they are not. In this
> example, the 'anti-SOA' may be seen as the mainframe application of yore.
> Said Natis: "The monolithic application is the other side of SOA." In other
> words, a SOA is not part of just one app.
>
> This past summer was a cold one for SOA, with critics tossing barbs, and
> denigrating aspects of SOA. Some criticism may be well placed. The Gartner
> conference brought to mind a paraphrase of an old Elvis Costello song:
> 'What's so funny about shareable, swappable and modular?' SOA is less a
> technology than a way to dependably extract business value from technology.
> It is a journey, and it involves work.
>
> Read more about the Gartner Summit.
>
>



Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:18 am

jones.steveg
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Message #12184 of 14049 |
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This is what I've received today by e-mail from the SearchSOA.com Gartner's Yefim Natis is sure that "SOA is integration". Are we getting anywhere with this...
Michael Poulin
m3poulin
Offline Send Email
Dec 17, 2008
12:03 am

Two things here 1) The BSB/DSB model I've talked about for yonks is exactly about the federated SOA model 2) Its the MODELS that matter and the TECHNOLOGY that...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
Offline Send Email
Dec 17, 2008
12:38 pm

While I agree with the last line, I disagree with the leading one: "SOA is integration". Many organizations mistakenly percieve SOA as an integration strategy....
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
Offline Send Email
Dec 17, 2008
1:46 pm

All good points. SOA is most definitely about architecture. While I wouldn't say "SOA is integration" per se, I'd say that integration is one of the core...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
Offline Send Email
Dec 17, 2008
4:10 pm

Anne I agree. I think that the first statement implies a T-SOA view while the later a more mature business centric SOA (with a big A) view. I wonder if the...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
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Dec 17, 2008
6:32 pm

Yeah but you have to appreciate Yefim's eastern european sense of humor. Try saying "SOA is Integration" with a thick accent and a forceful shaking of the...
mikomatsumura
Offline Send Email
Dec 19, 2008
11:29 am

How "SOA is integration" correcponds to "SOA is less a technology than a way to dependably extract business value from technology. It is a journey, and it...
Michael Poulin
m3poulin
Offline Send Email
Dec 17, 2008
4:09 pm

What is the difference between integration and interaction? Maybe this is the way to finally find if SOA is about integration or not. When we gather services...
Michael Poulin
m3poulin
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Dec 17, 2008
6:31 pm

Integrations have interactions. Interactions are not always within the context of an integration. IMO, integration is the interaction between components that...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
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Dec 19, 2008
11:28 am

Hi, a little bit late but want to put my +1 with take it one step at a time. That's what I've seen too. Many companies are interested in doing one project at a...
htshozawa
Offline Send Email
Dec 19, 2008
11:28 am

I always recommend a "think big, take small steps" methodology. So I concur with the "take one small step at a time" advice. But I find that many organizations...
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
Offline Send Email
Dec 19, 2008
12:22 pm

Indeed. As I always tell clients Two things you need for a roadmap 1) Where you are 2) Where you want to go Then you can proceed with little steps. The old...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
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Dec 19, 2008
12:49 pm

It seems that your contributions as a Group on this subject have not gone unheeded in the august world of technical journalism: ...
Gervas Douglas
gervasdouglas
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Dec 19, 2008
1:56 pm

When the scope of a project is limited to a single application, I'm recommending on 2 phase approach. In the first phase, I'm gathering the current status at...
htshozawa
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Dec 19, 2008
2:38 pm

I agree with " Integrations have interactions. Interactions are not always within the context of an integration" This means that service...
Michael Poulin
m3poulin
Offline Send Email
Dec 19, 2008
12:22 pm

I'd argue that most services are more or less independent. And are likely in various ownership domains. IMO, *most* (if not close to all) service interactions...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
Offline Send Email
Dec 20, 2008
9:19 pm

Rob, If your focus is integration, then you're less likely to be thinking about reducing redundancy through application consolidation. Integration is driven by...
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
Offline Send Email
Dec 20, 2008
9:33 pm

Anne, I agree with your point about focus. Focus on the right level for a given situation. Focus on the right services to be built/exposed, not about tying...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
Offline Send Email
Dec 21, 2008
10:06 pm

Doesn't the suspicion that SOA is vacuous grow stronger when you see that we can't even agree about the relationship of SOA and integration?...
Nick Gall
nick_gall_1117
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Dec 21, 2008
12:09 am

Not really, the argument appears to be more about what is integration, for instance whether process and choreography count as integration and whether more...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
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Dec 21, 2008
9:35 am

Here is what Anne's blog has to say on this: <<According to this report by Jack Vaughn at SearchSOA | TechTarget, Yefim Natis asserted "SOA is integration" at...
Gervas Douglas
gervasdouglas
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Dec 21, 2008
10:03 am

IMHO, isn't integration just one objective of SOA. Isn't SOA an architecture which will make integration easier. I'm afraid that the best way to just eliminate...
htshozawa
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Dec 21, 2008
4:25 pm

Yefim wants 'service oriented integration'? Praise the lord. We can slap some basic policies around that and make it practical. Stop the bullsh!t. If I see...
jeffrschneider
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Dec 22, 2008
1:42 pm

+1 on the governance thing. We need more presentations on services-- what constitutes a good service, how many interfaces are too many, managing the...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
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Dec 22, 2008
8:44 pm

Zapthink has a very specific take on SOA and integration. They state the following: - One goal of SOA - Integration as a byproduct of Service composition -...
Nibeck, Mike
nibeck
Offline Send Email
Dec 22, 2008
2:40 pm

+1. That's what I've been attempting to illustrate, though Mike has phrased it (via ZT statements) in a much better way than I. "If however the point of...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
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Dec 22, 2008
8:44 pm

In the vein of "I don't always agree with everything I say...." :-) Can one successfully argue that integration is essentially about defining interfaces?...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
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Dec 22, 2008
11:30 pm

Rob, What I'd say is that the _execution context_ in SOA is the integration and it is an _enabler_ for consumers and producers to be brought together, but the...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
Offline Send Email
Dec 23, 2008
2:01 am

... Hmm. The second person to think I made this error in definition. Perhaps I've worded somthing poorly. Integration is not in itself SOA. I've never...
Rob Eamon
reamon943
Offline Send Email
Dec 23, 2008
5:37 am

... Surely integration is always an intermediary in itself? ... Depends what you mean by interaction. I tend to limit interaction to human interactions...
Steve Jones
jones.steveg
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Dec 23, 2008
11:57 am
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