Yeah but you have to appreciate Yefim's eastern european sense of
humor. Try saying "SOA is Integration" with a thick accent and a
forceful shaking of the fist, it works a lot better I tell you =)

Working at Software AG/webMethods, who are in some ways culprits of
the old integration world, we are seeing the demand for true
federation, but it's not across the single dimension of interfaces.
Moving from Integration to Federation to be sure, from interfacing
systems to interfacing tribal organizations.

Our strategic (read: big fatty) customers are looking for ways to
manage cost, complexity, heterogeneity, siloism, tribalism,
consultant-ism and vendor-ism. But they are doing so across business
processes, schemas, interfaces, contracts, policies, profiles, assets,
infrastructure, VMs, etc.

It's the natural pattern of the regional power to rapidly create
variation (in the name of agility) and it's the natural pattern of the
central power to consolidate, normalize, govern and otherwise rein in
the regional powers to the extent possible (and sometimes more).

To Steve's point it does require "work" but I think the word "work"
might be misleading. Of course it requires a lot of effort in
implementation and struggle, but I want to ensure that we all
collecitvely as architects pursue the "right" kind of struggle--which
is to say that the conversation between organizations should be about
requirements, policies and interfaces and less about forced
implementation, and that clean and good boundaries, contracts and
formalisms takes the interaction out of the realm of the political and
into the realm of the legislative (these are different I assure you!)

So less "work" fighting and more "work" working. The true challenge
imho comes from tying Enterprise goals and metrics to individual and
organizational behaviors (and incentives). without such a system,
individual survival trumps any form of organization.

thanks for reading, happy holidays and new year to all,
Miko

--- In service-orientated-architecture@yahoogroups.com, "Anne Thomas
Manes" <atmanes@...> wrote:
>
> While I agree with the last line, I disagree with the leading one:
> "SOA is integration". Many organizations mistakenly percieve SOA as an
> integration strategy. But it is not. SOA is about architecture. To
> achieve SOA, you must rearchitect your systems. You must remove the
> deadwood. Every organization has too much stuff -- too many redundant
> applications and data sources. SOA is about cleaning house. You will
> not simplify your environment, reduce costs, and gain agility until
> you reduce that redundancy.
>
> Anne
>
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Steve Jones <jones.steveg@...> wrote:
> > Two things here
> >
> > 1) The BSB/DSB model I've talked about for yonks is exactly about the
> > federated SOA model
> > 2) Its the MODELS that matter and the TECHNOLOGY that integrates.
> >
> > Its the last line however that is completely true (and not in-line
> > with the integration comment).
> >
> > "SOA is less a technology than a way to dependably extract business
> > value from technology. It is a journey, and it involves work."
> >
> > Hallelujah
> >
> > Now that is the reality.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > 2008/12/16 Michael Poulin <m3poulin@...>:
> >> This is what I've received today by e-mail from the SearchSOA.com
> >>
> >> Gartner's Yefim Natis is sure that "SOA is integration". Are we
getting
> >> anywhere with this opinion?
> >>
> >> "You can only do it in parts of a domain where you have control."
- sounds
> >> to me like you can make some money "in parts" (hey, it is the
financial
> >> crisis, dude) and do not even think about approaching your Business
> >> telling
> >> them that they might make much more money if they do it top-down
for the
> >> real business parts (that cannot be small by nature).
> >>
> >> Thanks to such "experts", "This past summer was a cold one for SOA".
> >> Indeed,
> >> a keyboard (especially, wireless) is not the best tool for
nut-cracking;
> >> why
> >> we need it at all?
> >>
> >> What can we do to slow down spreading such Integration SOA madness?
> >>
> >> - Michael
> >>
> >>
> >> FROM THE EDITOR
> >>
> >>
> >> Gartner AADI Summit: SOA going into 2009
> >> [Jack Vaughan]
> >>
> >> Several years into the SOA era of application and integration
development,
> >> SOA continues on without a full consensus opinion of what SOA is.
> >>
> >> Yet there were plenty of takes on what SOA is at this year's
Gartner's
> >> Application Architecture, Development & Integration Summit 2008
in Las
> >> Vegas, and while the definitions and prognostications on SOA remained
> >> diverse, a picture emerges.
> >>
> >> It does seem one great trait of SOA is that it is an ongoing
process. Its
> >> goal is to favorably and repeatedly change development outcomes based
> >> around
> >> logically partitioned services. It shares this goal with predecessor
> >> components, objects and elements of CASE methodologies. But it is
> >> different.
> >>
> >> The idea that 'one SOA fits all' may be fading. "SOA is
integration. It is
> >> a
> >> strategic initiative," said Gartner analyst Yefim Natis. "You can
only do
> >> it
> >> in parts of a domain where you have control."
> >>
> >> One SOA at a time
> >> At last week's Gartner Summit, Natis discussed varieties of SOA, and
> >> pointed
> >> to the fact that many companies are instituting SOAs, but they
are doing
> >> so
> >> without a singular architectural blueprint for all IT. Some people,
> >> according to Natis, are starting to try to federate their 'domain
SOAs'
> >> based on agreed-to interoperability protocols and transports that
span the
> >> full organization.
> >>
> >> Sometimes, things are best seen in comparison to what they are
not. In
> >> this
> >> example, the 'anti-SOA' may be seen as the mainframe application
of yore.
> >> Said Natis: "The monolithic application is the other side of SOA." In
> >> other
> >> words, a SOA is not part of just one app.
> >>
> >> This past summer was a cold one for SOA, with critics tossing
barbs, and
> >> denigrating aspects of SOA. Some criticism may be well placed.
The Gartner
> >> conference brought to mind a paraphrase of an old Elvis Costello
song:
> >> 'What's so funny about shareable, swappable and modular?' SOA is
less a
> >> technology than a way to dependably extract business value from
> >> technology.
> >> It is a journey, and it involves work.
> >>
> >> Read more about the Gartner Summit.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gartner AADI Summit: SOA going into 2009
> >> [Jack Vaughan]
> >>
> >> Several years into the SOA era of application and integration
development,
> >> SOA continues on without a full consensus opinion of what SOA is.
> >>
> >> Yet there were plenty of takes on what SOA is at this year's
Gartner's
> >> Application Architecture, Development & Integration Summit 2008
in Las
> >> Vegas, and while the definitions and prognostications on SOA remained
> >> diverse, a picture emerges.
> >>
> >> It does seem one great trait of SOA is that it is an ongoing
process. Its
> >> goal is to favorably and repeatedly change development outcomes based
> >> around
> >> logically partitioned services. It shares this goal with predecessor
> >> components, objects and elements of CASE methodologies. But it is
> >> different.
> >>
> >> The idea that 'one SOA fits all' may be fading. "SOA is
integration. It is
> >> a
> >> strategic initiative," said Gartner analyst Yefim Natis. "You can
only do
> >> it
> >> in parts of a domain where you have control."
> >>
> >> One SOA at a time
> >> At last week's Gartner Summit, Natis discussed varieties of SOA, and
> >> pointed
> >> to the fact that many companies are instituting SOAs, but they
are doing
> >> so
> >> without a singular architectural blueprint for all IT. Some people,
> >> according to Natis, are starting to try to federate their 'domain
SOAs'
> >> based on agreed-to interoperability protocols and transports that
span the
> >> full organization.
> >>
> >> Sometimes, things are best seen in comparison to what they are
not. In
> >> this
> >> example, the 'anti-SOA' may be seen as the mainframe application
of yore.
> >> Said Natis: "The monolithic application is the other side of SOA." In
> >> other
> >> words, a SOA is not part of just one app.
> >>
> >> This past summer was a cold one for SOA, with critics tossing
barbs, and
> >> denigrating aspects of SOA. Some criticism may be well placed.
The Gartner
> >> conference brought to mind a paraphrase of an old Elvis Costello
song:
> >> 'What's so funny about shareable, swappable and modular?' SOA is
less a
> >> technology than a way to dependably extract business value from
> >> technology.
> >> It is a journey, and it involves work.
> >>
> >> Read more about the Gartner Summit.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>