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Are SOA's getting lost in translation?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1386 of 13951 |
RE: [service-orientated-architecture] Are SOA's getting lost in translation?

For the most part, I agree with you -- but SOA /= Web Services. SOA has been
with us a long time: ONC, DCE, CORBA, DCOM, RMI, Jini, JXTA, etc. SOA refers
to the service-oriented (or service-orinetated) style of design -- the
"guiding principles" for application design.

The protocols don't really matter, but the metadata does. As long as you
have standard metadata, you can negotiate the protocols. Hence WSDL, XML
Schema, WS-Policy, and other metadata formats are critical. Certainly they
will morph over time. For example, the differences between WSDL 1.1 and WSDL
2.0 are quite substantial. But these are simple tooling issues to migrate
from one to the other.

Anne

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernie Varitimos [mailto:erniev@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:24 AM
To: service-orientated-architecture@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Are SOA's getting lost in
translation?

Web Services is only one of the myriad of components that might make up
an enterprise API, a.k.a. the Enterprise Service Bus (ESB). Web
Services will come and go, as did/will CORBA, DES, JXTA and others.
What remains is the need expose an organizations API through the
traversal of intelligent metadata. IMO the data itself is what's
important, not the transport mechanisms, nor the repositories. The real
challenge is agreement upon common semantics and ontologies.

-ernie

On Aug 30, 2004, at 1:42 PM, Gervas Douglas wrote:

> <<Gartner predicts that by 2008, more than 60 percent of enterprises
> will use SOA as the "guiding principle" when creating mission-
> critical applications and processes. That being said, it is
> important to realize that SOA isn't a new concept to the IT
> industry; it is just one that will be taking on a new life and a new
> direction. I attribute this to the popularity and gradual adoption
> of Web services - an industry standard for how the SOA repository
> should look, for how the reusable business processes should look and
> describe themselves and for how communication should happen. A major
> benefit is that there are no dependencies for how the services are
> implemented or what technology is being used. Plus after a service
> is deployed and becomes available for reuse, it is also tested,
> predictable and documented, driving down development costs.
>
> <You no longer have silos of architectures unique to an organization
> or department, but instead have made the architecture open yet
> secure.breaking down borders. The ability to build new applications
> that serve business processes and data across the organization and
> also extend their reach to a disparate array of customers, partners
> and suppliers provides for a tremendous advantage over competitors
> and is becoming more and more critical to the success of an
> organization.>>
>
> You can find this article at:
>
> http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107_2-5325403.html
>
> Gervas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>






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Wed Sep 1, 2004 2:45 am

annemanes
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Message #1386 of 13951 |
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... The basic thing I like to say is "vendor neutralization" and "protocol neutralization". You need to have a backbone that can handle anything... That's...
Gregg Wonderly
w5ggw
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Sep 1, 2004
10:30 am

For the most part, I agree with you -- but SOA /= Web Services. SOA has been with us a long time: ONC, DCE, CORBA, DCOM, RMI, Jini, JXTA, etc. SOA refers to...
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
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Sep 1, 2004
10:30 am

... This seems to be a different definition of SOA then I'm used to. I usually use SOA as a term to distinguish it from other distributed architectures. I...
Toivo Lainevool
tlainevool
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Sep 2, 2004
11:08 am

... I think it's telling that nobody's actually described SOA - even just their own view of it - in a rigorous enough manner that permits simple tests such as...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Sep 2, 2004
12:26 pm

There are individual definitions of SOA that make sense, are well enunciated and make it easy to differentiate SOA from previous approaches to EAI. Naturally,...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 2, 2004
1:11 pm

... Yes, agreed, there are some good descriptions out there. But IMO none are rigorous enough to be able to do the simple conformance test I mentioned, which...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Sep 2, 2004
2:11 pm

... SOA ain't Web Services, either. One can build an SOA that incorporates Web Services, but I see a disturbing trend to equating a useful term that describes...
Patrick May
patrick.may@...
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Sep 2, 2004
2:51 pm

I recall using the term "service-oriented architecture" back in the early 1990's to describe DCE and CORBA-based application architectures. And if you look at...
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
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Sep 2, 2004
5:28 pm

Sean, Could you explain what you meant by the below for helping the crowd understand what SOA is not? "Whenever I see definitions that attempt to show that...
Kaleem Aziz
kaleemaziz
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Sep 2, 2004
5:30 pm

... I do not believe that SOA can or even should attempt to create a model in which RPC and Object-based integration paradigms are valid techniques. It smacks...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 3, 2004
10:53 am

... From what I can see, many marketing departments are trying desperately to define SOA in such a way as to exclude existing distributed architectures in...
Patrick May
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Sep 3, 2004
11:23 am

... That is one definition :-) It is not mine. Viva la differeance! ... Because without them you just get the same old tired API centric, RPC-centric,...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 3, 2004
11:41 am

... I'm a huge fan of asynchrony of course, but I think that the extreme in loose coupling that you and I strive for is provided primarily by the avoidance of...
Mark Baker
gonga_thrash
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Sep 3, 2004
1:19 pm

... That's simply not true, on a number of levels. It is entirely possible to build distributed systems that are not "API centric" and "RPC centric" without...
Patrick May
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Sep 3, 2004
2:16 pm

... Examples? Sean...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 3, 2004
2:30 pm

... Trivially, HTTP. A generic interface and synchronous communication. More interestingly, TIBCO's TIB/Rendezvous supports both synchronous and asynchronous...
Patrick May
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Sep 3, 2004
3:33 pm

... Anybody who hooks up an Object invocation to a HTTP request enters a world of pain owing to the synchronous nature of the request/response invocation. This...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 3, 2004
4:09 pm

... Non sequitur. You asked for an example of distributed systems that are not "API centric", "RPC centric", or asynchronous. HTTP fits that description. ......
Patrick May
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Sep 3, 2004
4:27 pm

... This is about two degrees of separation removed from your point, but FWIW I came across http://www.windley.com/2004/08/25.html#a1383 which references...
Michael Champion
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Sep 3, 2004
5:02 pm

... Whether or not grid architectures are SOAs is an interesting question. There are two primary ways to use JavaSpaces in a compute server grid,...
Patrick May
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Sep 5, 2004
12:17 pm

... One could paraphrase the first as "service requests are added to the space and picked up by any service provider than understands the interface", and that...
Michael Champion
mcraigchampion
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Sep 5, 2004
5:13 pm

... This is a feature of the Java security policy implementation that is extended and utilized by the Jini 2.0 JERI work. You have to have agreed on security...
Gregg Wonderly
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Sep 6, 2004
10:47 am

... [...] ... If we include "explicitness of boundaries" and "autonomy of services" [1] as defining architectural constraints of an SOA (again - depends on...
Spork, Murray
murray_spork
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Sep 6, 2004
10:43 am

... I guess we will have to differ on that then. ... Again, we will have to differ I'm afraid. I believe it is of paramount importance that it is based on an...
Sean McGrath
propylonsean
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Sep 4, 2004
3:06 pm

... Everyone's opinion is not equally valid if that opinion isn't backed by any rational argument. "Service oriented architecture" is a meaningful term if and...
Patrick May
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Sep 5, 2004
12:18 pm

... The Javaspaces programming environment provides the asynchronous communications that Sean is talking about. There is no temporal coupling when using...
Gregg Wonderly
w5ggw
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Sep 6, 2004
10:45 am

SOA's probably have been a "silent norm" of how we understand what it "should" be, but can't agree what it really is. May be we are looking at one part of it...
Kaleem Aziz
kaleemaziz
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Sep 8, 2004
3:43 pm

... The design of an asynchronous system often includes an implicit knowledge of the steps in the system as state manifested in the data items, or in a state...
Gregg Wonderly
w5ggw
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Sep 4, 2004
3:09 pm

To jump off onto a tangent... Personally, I think the approach you're describing (state-based workflow) is the right approach to implementing "composite...
Anne Thomas Manes
annemanes
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Sep 5, 2004
12:15 pm

... I'm well acquainted with the details of JavaSpaces. See the website for the company in my signature for some whitepapers I've written. ... I think you may...
Patrick May
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Sep 5, 2004
12:17 pm
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