FireFox is OK too. All are free downloads.

Tom

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> Google Chrome seems to work fine on my XPpro 32 bit machine. I will report
later on Vista 64.
> Tom
>
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > Please see my answer to Andrew about drawings.
> >
> > Yes, some persons have noticed some anomolies, IE7 seems to work tolerably
well or FireFox. I will try Google Chrome and report back.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "mynasis" <Mynasis@> wrote:
> > >
> > > First, we are in Fate just East of you and would be glade to meet with
you.  Can exchange contact info if interested.
> > >
> > > Second, like Andrew stated, there are no prints, just a half cutaway of a
twin and nothing on that engine on the linked page.  Also, is anyone else having
viewing problems on Allan's site, the formulas are large and small and overlaid
character and the drwaings are duplicated over and over, made with a MAC and
really bad on IE8 PC viewing.
> > >
> > >  --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, steve adams <amanita_tessera@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sounds good.
> > > > Anyone nearby Arlington Tx looking for a team member?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Thu, 8/20/09, tomg3usa <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: tomg3usa <t.gentry@>
> > > > Subject: [sesusa] Each member please read 
web.me.com/allan.j.o/The_Hot-Air_Engine/Welcome.html
> > > > To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 2:11 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >                   Here is an idea whose time has come.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > web.me.com/allan. j.o/The_Hot- Air_Engine/ Welcome.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The URL above is the site with the instructions for creating a small
power producing air-engine developed by Allan Organ.  My desire is to have the
people on this list create this 100 watt engine, from the information supplied,
and test it to see to see to what degree it meets expectations.  It is a single
tube beta arrangement in thich the annular gap is optimized so that it acts as a
regenerator.  The members are encouraged to discuss this project and find others
on the list with complementary capabilities and or machinery to create the parts
per the instructions.  The kinematics have not been addressed except to state
that it is a kinematic engine.  It can be rhombic drive, Ross drive, Topf drive
but it should be reproducible with off the shelf parts and  modest machinery.
Alternatively the parts can be outsourced to a model shop. Each group will
decide how their project is to be financed. At the end of some reasonable period
of time, yet to be
> > > >  decided, we will have a meeting in the DFW area to display and test the
constucted devices.  The winner will receive a modest prize still to be decided
and trophies and certificates.  If this works we will then address a  larger
engine using similar techniques from Allan Organ.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why am I proposing this? Because as John Archibald said and I quote;
> > > >
> > > > "There are no excuses left. He (Allan Organ) has mapped the path for
us."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The challenge is there, the path is defined. Can you follow it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom Gentry
> > > >
> > > > SESUSA List Owner
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I have been studying Mr. Allan's design tools, and find them extremely
comprehensive and helpful. In the "NOTATION" section of his document,however, I
am having trouble with conflicting definitions  of the symbol Sp.
  In one place it is defined as swept piston volume    ( Lambda = Sp/Sd ).
In another place, it is defined as piston stroke ( Sp = piston stroke and Dp=
displacer stroke).
Am I mis-reading these definitions??
Thanks
Frank

I use Firefox and had no trouble viewing the page.  I just don't find
any materials that are of use to a machinist  who simply wants to make
the parts for an engine.

Andrew

This is true. The AJO process generates the values to use in the drawings but
not the drawings themselves.  That is why we are forming the teams.

Tom

(--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Bornman <bornman@...> wrote:
>
> I use Firefox and had no trouble viewing the page.  I just don't find
> any materials that are of use to a machinist  who simply wants to make
> the parts for an engine.
>
> Andrew
>

Did you get my answer ?

Tom
--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "secretan15" <secretan15@...> wrote:
>
> I have been studying Mr. Allan's design tools, and find them extremely
comprehensive and helpful. In the "NOTATION" section of his document,however, I
am having trouble with conflicting definitions  of the symbol Sp.
>  In one place it is defined as swept piston volume    ( Lambda = Sp/Sd ).
> In another place, it is defined as piston stroke ( Sp = piston stroke and Dp=
displacer stroke).
> Am I mis-reading these definitions??
> Thanks
> Frank
>

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> Did you get my answer ?
>
> Tom
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "secretan15" <secretan15@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been studying Mr. Allan's design tools, and find them extremely
comprehensive and helpful. In the "NOTATION" section of his document,however, I
am having trouble with conflicting definitions  of the symbol Sp.
> >  In one place it is defined as swept piston volume    ( Lambda = Sp/Sd ).
> > In another place, it is defined as piston stroke ( Sp = piston stroke and
Dp= displacer stroke).
> > Am I mis-reading these definitions??
> > Thanks
> > Frank
> >
>

No tom. I didn't get your answer to my question.

> Why am I proposing this? Because as John Archibald said and I quote;
> "There are no excuses left. He (Allan Organ) has mapped the path
> for us."

OK Tom, but (for the record) does this mean you & Arch are dismissing
Lee White's "path"? <7764 Mar 2009>

> IF Stirling cycle machinery is to have any chance of achieving
> market penetration, we need to clearly identify the failures of
> current and past Stirling cycle machinery and we need to focus our
> attention on an attempt to find alternative routes around them.
> This is a basic research and an invention issue - not a design tool
> development or a design technology distribution issue.

> We do not need a lot of heads - we need a few good ones dedicted to
> answering the right questions.

> Lee

AFAIC Lee's at the top of the 'foodchain' and the more I swim amid
smaller fish, the easier it becomes to see where/how he got there.

> It is a single tube beta arrangement in which the annular gap is
> optimized so that it acts as a regenerator.

Nope, the annular gap is not a regen (per AJO mid pg). Yep, the gap
is optimized...drag vs heat short. Most gamma & beta are Otto cycle
with what might best be described as internal (dynamic) reservoir.

Nice to see GCS retired since I always thought it clouded grasping
parametric relationships. Unfortunately, AJO 'scales' further cloud
these relationships with their cut & paste simplicity. AFAIK I'm the
major graphics nut in these groups and I applaud simplicity, but I'm
convinced 2D graphics is the way to go.

regards,
Matt

...really bad on IE8 PC viewing....

In IE8, Tools menu, check "Compatibility View". Hope that helps.

Carl Helquist

If you are not going to be helpful, at least be quiet.





From: sesusa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
pacificstirling
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 6:40 PM
To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sesusa] Re: Each member please read
web.me.com/allan.j.o/The_Hot-Air_Engine/Welcome.html






> Why am I proposing this? Because as John Archibald said and I quote;
> "There are no excuses left. He (Allan Organ) has mapped the path
> for us."

OK Tom, but (for the record) does this mean you & Arch are dismissing
Lee White's "path"? <7764 Mar 2009>

> IF Stirling cycle machinery is to have any chance of achieving
> market penetration, we need to clearly identify the failures of
> current and past Stirling cycle machinery and we need to focus our
> attention on an attempt to find alternative routes around them.
> This is a basic research and an invention issue - not a design tool
> development or a design technology distribution issue.

> We do not need a lot of heads - we need a few good ones dedicted to
> answering the right questions.

> Lee

AFAIC Lee's at the top of the 'foodchain' and the more I swim amid
smaller fish, the easier it becomes to see where/how he got there.

> It is a single tube beta arrangement in which the annular gap is
> optimized so that it acts as a regenerator.

Nope, the annular gap is not a regen (per AJO mid pg). Yep, the gap
is optimized...drag vs heat short. Most gamma & beta are Otto cycle
with what might best be described as internal (dynamic) reservoir.

Nice to see GCS retired since I always thought it clouded grasping
parametric relationships. Unfortunately, AJO 'scales' further cloud
these relationships with their cut & paste simplicity. AFAIK I'm the
major graphics nut in these groups and I applaud simplicity, but I'm
convinced 2D graphics is the way to go.

regards,
Matt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

re: annular gap and regenerator. I quote from mid page:

Transfer of air between the variable-volume spaces is via the annular gap
between the plain, cylindrical displacer and the surrounding cylinder. THE
ARRANGEMENT ACHIEVES A DEGREE OF REGENERATIVE EFFECT; but there is a penalty:
thermodynamic potential is short-circuited by a mechanism known as 'shuttle'
heat transfer (2007 text, Chap. 6).

EMPAHSIS IS ADDED -TG

If you don't like what we are doing then don't participate. However I will not
tolerate CARPING or flames. If you want to argue theory go argue with Lee.
Backchannel. My final answer.

Tom
SESUSA List Owner/moderator.


--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "pacificstirling" <powermacs@...> wrote:
>
>
> > Why am I proposing this? Because as John Archibald said and I quote;
> > "There are no excuses left. He (Allan Organ) has mapped the path
> > for us."
>
> OK Tom, but (for the record) does this mean you & Arch are dismissing
> Lee White's "path"? <7764 Mar 2009>
>
> > IF Stirling cycle machinery is to have any chance of achieving
> > market penetration, we need to clearly identify the failures of
> > current and past Stirling cycle machinery and we need to focus our
> > attention on an attempt to find alternative routes around them.
> > This is a basic research and an invention issue - not a design tool
> > development or a design technology distribution issue.
>
> > We do not need a lot of heads - we need a few good ones dedicted to
> > answering the right questions.
>
> > Lee
>
> AFAIC Lee's at the top of the 'foodchain' and the more I swim amid
> smaller fish, the easier it becomes to see where/how he got there.
>
> > It is a single tube beta arrangement in which the annular gap is
> > optimized so that it acts as a regenerator.
>
> Nope, the annular gap is not a regen (per AJO mid pg). Yep, the gap
> is optimized...drag vs heat short. Most gamma & beta are Otto cycle
> with what might best be described as internal (dynamic) reservoir.
>
> Nice to see GCS retired since I always thought it clouded grasping
> parametric relationships. Unfortunately, AJO 'scales' further cloud
> these relationships with their cut & paste simplicity. AFAIK I'm the
> major graphics nut in these groups and I applaud simplicity, but I'm
> convinced 2D graphics is the way to go.
>
> regards,
> Matt
>

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "secretan15" <secretan15@...> wrote:
>
> No tom. I didn't get your answer to my question.
>
Let me try again; From my previus email.

>I have been studying the Allan design and it is mighty impressive. However, i'm
having difficulty with some of the nomenclature. Specifically, in one part of
the section headed  "NOTATION", the lambda symbol defines a volume ratio Sp/Sd.
In another part of the section, It defines Sp as a linear piston stroke and Sd
as displacer stroke.

Is Sp  a volume value ( swept piston volume. ) or a linear value ( linear piston
stroke ). Am I missing something??
Thanks
Frank

The answer is both. Since the diameter of the cylinder in which BOTH pistons are
is constant then the Volume Ratio of PIxD^2/4xSp/PIxD^2/4xSd reduces to the
ratio of the stroke. Sp/Sd.

This is NOT true if the Diameter of the cylinders are different. Then it becomes
PIxDp^2/4xSp/PIxDd^2/4xSd which reduces to Dp^2xSd/Dd^2xSd both are volume
ratios.  Does that help?

Tom

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>I got it. Thanks and I now understand.
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "secretan15" <secretan15@> wrote:
> >
> > No tom. I didn't get your answer to my question.
> >
> Let me try again; From my previus email.
>
> >I have been studying the Allan design and it is mighty impressive. However,
i'm having difficulty with some of the nomenclature. Specifically, in one part
of the section headed  "NOTATION", the lambda symbol defines a volume ratio
Sp/Sd. In another part of the section, It defines Sp as a linear piston stroke
and Sd as displacer stroke.
>
> Is Sp  a volume value ( swept piston volume. ) or a linear value ( linear
piston stroke ). Am I missing something??
> Thanks
> Frank
>
> The answer is both. Since the diameter of the cylinder in which BOTH pistons
are is constant then the Volume Ratio of PIxD^2/4xSp/PIxD^2/4xSd reduces to the
ratio of the stroke. Sp/Sd.
>
> This is NOT true if the Diameter of the cylinders are different. Then it
becomes PIxDp^2/4xSp/PIxDd^2/4xSd which reduces to Dp^2xSd/Dd^2xSd both are
volume ratios.  Does that help?
>
> Tom
>

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> If you are not going to be helpful, at least be quiet.
>

Everyone seems to have taken that to heart Tom, the silence is deafening! I've
always admitted to being primarily an 'armchair enthusiast' but it is a shame
there are not others out there willing to take up the challenge.

NHH

Hi Tom and group,
                               I have posted a video on You tube of the four
cylinder engine running.  Under "Stirling boats".  No cooling water is being
used and I am keeping the runs short while I work on the pin drive and the seals
etc.  Very little power at present, but that is ok as I am learning lots about
the pin drive and its adjustment.  I have down loaded the Fast Track charts and
tried to match up my engine.  At present it is obvious that I do not have enough
heat transfer surface area. That can be rectified in various ways in the future.
First, I just wanted to get the engine built and going.  Modifications can now
be made and tested fairly easily.  It does not cost very much to build an engine
like this if you do it yourself.  My main expenses have been the Rulon sheet,
the Stainless mesh and some bearings,perhaps $500 Aust. $300 US that's all.
So now I have some hardware to work with and it is great to be able to try a mod
and see if it is an improvement or not.  That is how I built the Vee twin Alpha.
The first power measurements on it showed  just 7 watts.  I had hoped for 200. 
But after years of mods I finally managed to get 180 watts.  Where the Vee twin
is a fast engine this one seems to be a slow plodder with very high torque at
low revs. The seals are very good and It is very smooth running with the main
vibration being up and down. If you hold it while it is running you can just
feel the up and down forces.  It is not held down in the video, just resting on
the timber support.  A speed control has been fitted which cross connects the
diagonally opposite gas circuits.  This seems to work and is very simple.  The
orange knob on the left side presses flat, and therefore seals two plastic tubes
which connect the opposite circuits.  As these are allowed to open speed
reduces.  Some pressurization has been tried but because of the poor heat
transfer in, no noticeable effect is obtained.   The burners are fed by a single
gas jet mounted just above the base plate and right in the middle, pointing
upwards.  This draws air into the long, central, vertical mixing tube which
branches to the four burners at the top. These are double skinned so the gas/air
mixture is preheated as it flows around and down to the flame holes.  660 in
each burner .028" diameter.  The burners will light easily with the primary air
ports fully open and the engine will start within 1.5 minutes.  So there you
have it so far.  It is wonderful to have it going.
Blessings,  Harry.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Harry,

YouTube can not find your video by searching Stirling boats.  Could you please
try to post a full url or send it to me back channel.


--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Diers " <harrydiers@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom and group,
>                               I have posted a video on You tube of the four
cylinder engine running.  Under "Stirling boats".

Perhaps that is not a bad thing?

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "n_highfield" <n_highfield@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > If you are not going to be helpful, at least be quiet.
> >
>
> Everyone seems to have taken that to heart Tom, the silence is deafening! I've
always admitted to being primarily an 'armchair enthusiast' but it is a shame
there are not others out there willing to take up the challenge.
>
> NHH
>

Then as soon as you say that Harry pops up with his latest success.  :)

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "n_highfield" <n_highfield@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > If you are not going to be helpful, at least be quiet.
> >
>
> Everyone seems to have taken that to heart Tom, the silence is deafening! I've
always admitted to being primarily an 'armchair enthusiast' but it is a shame
there are not others out there willing to take up the challenge.
>
> NHH
>

Cancel previous message. I found it!!
You must put Stirling engine 4DA800 in the search and it finds it.

Good Job Harry!  Thanks for sharing this with us.

When you are ready to start tweaking the gas circuit, lets talk about it on the
list.  I am sure others can learn from your experience.

Tom


--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> Harry,
>
> YouTube can not find your video by searching Stirling boats.  Could you please
try to post a full url or send it to me back channel.
>
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Diers " <harrydiers@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom and group,
> >                               I have posted a video on You tube of the four
cylinder engine running.  Under "Stirling boats".
>

At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being formed to
collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine.  Anything happening there? Anyone
need help with a design?

Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.  But the
outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the 1kW engine.

The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and saw your
call to action.

While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a long
way from a design ready to build.

If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge.  I know
Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a requirement.

I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab.  I can make 3D models and drawings
too.

I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct heat
input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).

Rick

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being formed to
collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine.  Anything happening there? Anyone
need help with a design?
>
> Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.  But the
outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the 1kW engine.
>
> The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
>
> Tom
>

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "rptopf" <rtopf@...> wrote:
>Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling ( TGS
) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this so far,
it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to implement your design.
In fact, I have started an implementation based on your design but with some
simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small home shop like mine.
Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my attempts might be useful.

Frank
> Hi Tom,
>
> I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and saw
your call to action.
>
> While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a
long way from a design ready to build.
>
> If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge.  I
know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a requirement.
>
> I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab.  I can make 3D models and drawings
too.
>
> I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct heat
input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
>
> Rick
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being formed
to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine.  Anything happening there?
Anyone need help with a design?
> >
> > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.  But
the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the 1kW
engine.
> >
> > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>

Frank,



The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma.  The charts are
based on that.

Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for a
Beta already I think.



Rick?



Tom



From: sesusa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
secretan15
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??





--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> , "rptopf"
<rtopf@...> wrote:
>Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling (
TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this
so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to implement
your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your design
but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my
attempts might be useful.

Frank
> Hi Tom,
>
> I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and
saw your call to action.
>
> While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a
long way from a design ready to build.
>
> If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge. I
know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
requirement.
>
> I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
drawings too.
>
> I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct
heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
>
> Rick
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything happening
there? Anyone need help with a design?
> >
> > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.
But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the
1kW engine.
> >
> > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
Frank
> Frank,
>
>
>
> The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma.  The charts are
> based on that.
>
> Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for a
> Beta already I think.
>
>
>
> Rick?
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> From: sesusa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> secretan15
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> , "rptopf"
> <rtopf@> wrote:
> >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling (
> TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this
> so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to implement
> your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your design
> but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
> home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my
> attempts might be useful.
>
> Frank
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and
> saw your call to action.
> >
> > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a
> long way from a design ready to build.
> >
> > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge. I
> know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> requirement.
> >
> > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> drawings too.
> >
> > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct
> heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > >
> > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
> formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything happening
> there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > >
> > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.
> But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the
> 1kW engine.
> > >
> > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Tom, Frank, list,

I haven't given up on the twin gamma, but that is a diffent animal.  The design
phase is complete and drawings made.  Prototypes are in progress although I am
not doing the work personally.  I have been fooling around with a sub scale
model too.

CVH gave us the "hoeken beam" drive for beat's.  The strokes insure that the
volume phase would match a alpha config.  That's fine if everything else is the
same, but other factors can add significant differences. It is certainly worth
looking at for a 100 W project.

I think it is important to make the drive kinimatics match the gas circuit
requirements as much as possible.  If you can provide a simple, relitivly
straight motion, better still.  The many variations of four-bar mechinisms can
do most of that well.  Oddly, the linkage shown on AJO's page locks up before
one cycle.

For anyone intersted, I would partner up with someone interested in crunching
the numbers for a gas circuit.  Give me the bores and strokes, gaps, and any
other insight gained from AJO's work.  I can make 3D and 2D computer models,
design the drive, and make shop drawings.  I could also make parts.

Rick

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "secretan15" <secretan15@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
> Frank
> > Frank,
> >
> >
> >
> > The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma.  The charts are
> > based on that.
> >
> > Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for a
> > Beta already I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > From: sesusa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > secretan15
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> > To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> , "rptopf"
> > <rtopf@> wrote:
> > >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling (
> > TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this
> > so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to implement
> > your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your design
> > but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
> > home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my
> > attempts might be useful.
> >
> > Frank
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and
> > saw your call to action.
> > >
> > > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a
> > long way from a design ready to build.
> > >
> > > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge. I
> > know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> > requirement.
> > >
> > > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> > drawings too.
> > >
> > > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct
> > heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com <mailto:sesusa%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
> > formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything happening
> > there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > > >
> > > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.
> > But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the
> > 1kW engine.
> > > >
> > > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

List,
 
Long time the hoe(c)ken drive-train was mentioned.
I didn't gave up the work on it but I understood I can't
get the numbers in easy and simple relations.
 
Rick metioned it, and I repeat it now.
The APAIR.Bells layout can mimic the gas-phasing
relations common in Alpha's but in a pure Beta engine.
This includes Delta P what is related to a high Delta T.
What most did not read in the document is that it can
easely be configured as any Beta type, ofcourse its a Beta.
 
The drive-train proposed on the Allan.O.J site is the one
mentioned in the APAIR.Bells document
(page 3 end of section 3.1)
U.S. patent 4,546,663 Oct. 15, 1985;
Drive linkage for Stirling cycle and other machines
James G. Wood, Sunpower INC.
It lacks the fine tuning of the lateral deviations at point T
Zig, Rick and me came up with. At point S the motion
is a simple arc
 
Regards
CVH


--- On Thu, 9/17/09, Rick <rtopf@...> wrote:


From: Rick <rtopf@...>
Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 4:34 PM


 



Hi Tom, Frank, list,

I haven't given up on the twin gamma, but that is a diffent animal. The design
phase is complete and drawings made. Prototypes are in progress although I am
not doing the work personally. I have been fooling around with a sub scale model
too.

CVH gave us the "hoeken beam" drive for beat's. The strokes insure that the
volume phase would match a alpha config. That's fine if everything else is the
same, but other factors can add significant differences. It is certainly worth
looking at for a 100 W project.

I think it is important to make the drive kinimatics match the gas circuit
requirements as much as possible. If you can provide a simple, relitivly
straight motion, better still. The many variations of four-bar mechinisms can do
most of that well. Oddly, the linkage shown on AJO's page locks up before one
cycle.

For anyone intersted, I would partner up with someone interested in crunching
the numbers for a gas circuit. Give me the bores and strokes, gaps, and any
other insight gained from AJO's work. I can make 3D and 2D computer models,
design the drive, and make shop drawings. I could also make parts.

Rick

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "secretan15" <secretan15@ ...> wrote:
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
> Frank
> > Frank,
> >
> >
> >
> > The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma. The charts are
> > based on that.
> >
> > Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for a
> > Beta already I think.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > From: sesusa@yahoogroups. com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> > secretan15
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> > To: sesusa@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
"rptopf"
> > <rtopf@> wrote:
> > >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling (
> > TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this
> > so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to implement
> > your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your design
> > but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
> > home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my
> > attempts might be useful.
> >
> > Frank
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and
> > saw your call to action.
> > >
> > > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is a
> > long way from a design ready to build.
> > >
> > > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge. I
> > know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> > requirement.
> > >
> > > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> > drawings too.
> > >
> > > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct
> > heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
> > "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
> > formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything happening
> > there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > > >
> > > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.
> > But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the
> > 1kW engine.
> > > >
> > > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CVH et al,

Since the basic drive is patented, it appears that the modifications you made a
derivative.  Do you think there will be a problem with using it in our project?

Tom

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "C.V.H." <sqauredcycle@...> wrote:
>
> List,
>  
> Long time the hoe(c)ken drive-train was mentioned.
> I didn't gave up the work on it but I understood I can't
> get the numbers in easy and simple relations.
>  
> Rick metioned it, and I repeat it now.
> The APAIR.Bells layout can mimic the gas-phasing
> relations common in Alpha's but in a pure Beta engine.
> This includes Delta P what is related to a high Delta T.
> What most did not read in the document is that it can
> easely be configured as any Beta type, ofcourse its a Beta.
>  
> The drive-train proposed on the Allan.O.J site is the one
> mentioned in the APAIR.Bells document
> (page 3 end of section 3.1)
> U.S. patent 4,546,663 Oct. 15, 1985;
> Drive linkage for Stirling cycle and other machines
> James G. Wood, Sunpower INC.
> It lacks the fine tuning of the lateral deviations at point T
> Zig, Rick and me came up with. At point S the motion
> is a simple arc
>  
> Regards
> CVH
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Rick <rtopf@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Rick <rtopf@...>
> Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 4:34 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi Tom, Frank, list,
>
> I haven't given up on the twin gamma, but that is a diffent animal. The design
phase is complete and drawings made. Prototypes are in progress although I am
not doing the work personally. I have been fooling around with a sub scale model
too.
>
> CVH gave us the "hoeken beam" drive for beat's. The strokes insure that the
volume phase would match a alpha config. That's fine if everything else is the
same, but other factors can add significant differences. It is certainly worth
looking at for a 100 W project.
>
> I think it is important to make the drive kinimatics match the gas circuit
requirements as much as possible. If you can provide a simple, relitivly
straight motion, better still. The many variations of four-bar mechinisms can do
most of that well. Oddly, the linkage shown on AJO's page locks up before one
cycle.
>
> For anyone intersted, I would partner up with someone interested in crunching
the numbers for a gas circuit. Give me the bores and strokes, gaps, and any
other insight gained from AJO's work. I can make 3D and 2D computer models,
design the drive, and make shop drawings. I could also make parts.
>
> Rick
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "secretan15" <secretan15@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > >Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
> > Frank
> > > Frank,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma. The charts are
> > > based on that.
> > >
> > > Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for a
> > > Beta already I think.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rick?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: sesusa@yahoogroups. com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
Of
> > > secretan15
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> > > To: sesusa@yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
"rptopf"
> > > <rtopf@> wrote:
> > > >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma Stirling
(
> > > TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried this
> > > so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to
implement
> > > your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your
design
> > > but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
> > > home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and my
> > > attempts might be useful.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > >
> > > > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months and
> > > saw your call to action.
> > > >
> > > > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it is
a
> > > long way from a design ready to build.
> > > >
> > > > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the challenge.
I
> > > know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> > > requirement.
> > > >
> > > > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> > > drawings too.
> > > >
> > > > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for direct
> > > heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
> > > "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
> > > formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything happening
> > > there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > > > >
> > > > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the outboard.
> > > But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for the
> > > 1kW engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> CVH et al,
>
> Since the basic drive is patented, it appears that the modifications you made
a derivative.  Do you think there will be a problem with using it in our
project?
>
> Tom
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "C.V.H." <sqauredcycle@> wrote:
> >
> > List,
> >  
> > Long time the hoe(c)ken drive-train was mentioned.
> > I didn't gave up the work on it but I understood I can't
> > get the numbers in easy and simple relations.
> >  
> > Rick metioned it, and I repeat it now.
> > The APAIR.Bells layout can mimic the gas-phasing
> > relations common in Alpha's but in a pure Beta engine.
> > This includes Delta P what is related to a high Delta T.
> > What most did not read in the document is that it can
> > easely be configured as any Beta type, ofcourse its a Beta.
> >  
> > The drive-train proposed on the Allan.O.J site is the one
> > mentioned in the APAIR.Bells document
> > (page 3 end of section 3.1)
> > U.S. patent 4,546,663 Oct. 15, 1985;
> > Drive linkage for Stirling cycle and other machines
> > James G. Wood, Sunpower INC.
> > It lacks the fine tuning of the lateral deviations at point T
> > Zig, Rick and me came up with. At point S the motion
> > is a simple arc
> >  
> > Regards
> > CVH
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Rick <rtopf@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Rick <rtopf@>
> > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> > To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 4:34 PM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Tom, Frank, list,
> >
> > I haven't given up on the twin gamma, but that is a diffent animal. The
design phase is complete and drawings made. Prototypes are in progress although
I am not doing the work personally. I have been fooling around with a sub scale
model too.
> >
> > CVH gave us the "hoeken beam" drive for beat's. The strokes insure that the
volume phase would match a alpha config. That's fine if everything else is the
same, but other factors can add significant differences. It is certainly worth
looking at for a 100 W project.
> >
> > I think it is important to make the drive kinimatics match the gas circuit
requirements as much as possible. If you can provide a simple, relitivly
straight motion, better still. The many variations of four-bar mechinisms can do
most of that well. Oddly, the linkage shown on AJO's page locks up before one
cycle.
> >
> > For anyone intersted, I would partner up with someone interested in
crunching the numbers for a gas circuit. Give me the bores and strokes, gaps,
and any other insight gained from AJO's work. I can make 3D and 2D computer
models, design the drive, and make shop drawings. I could also make parts.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "secretan15" <secretan15@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > >Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
> > > Frank
> > > > Frank,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma. The charts are
> > > > based on that.
> > > >
> > > > Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism for
a
> > > > Beta already I think.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rick?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: sesusa@yahoogroups. com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
Of
> > > > secretan15
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> > > > To: sesusa@yahoogroups. com
> > > > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
"rptopf"
> > > > <rtopf@> wrote:
> > > > >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma
Stirling (
> > > > TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried
this
> > > > so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to
implement
> > > > your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your
design
> > > > but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a small
> > > > home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine and
my
> > > > attempts might be useful.
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months
and
> > > > saw your call to action.
> > > > >
> > > > > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage, it
is a
> > > > long way from a design ready to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the
challenge. I
> > > > know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> > > > requirement.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> > > > drawings too.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for
direct
> > > > heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
> > > > "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were being
> > > > formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything
happening
> > > > there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the
outboard.
> > > > But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for
the
> > > > 1kW engine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Tom, List

A) the patent is over 20 years old.....
B) In the APAIRS.BeLs document in the last part
of section 3.1 is mentioned that and I quote
"It would be possible to situate the pickoff
point 1' out-of-line or even not on the bell
crank ....". In this last case, placing that
point on the swingarm away from the swingarm-
pivot point the configuration could resemble
the method mentioned in the patent. It was
only included to be complete and for me the
patented drive-train is one single (bad)
example of the drives studied in the survey.

I don't see any problem in using a mechanism
derivated out the paper as long that it doesn't
resemble the patented case.

Regards
CVH


--- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> >
> > CVH et al,
> >
> > Since the basic drive is patented, it appears that the modifications you
made a derivative.  Do you think there will be a problem with using it in our
project?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups.com, "C.V.H." <sqauredcycle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > List,
> > >  
> > > Long time the hoe(c)ken drive-train was mentioned.
> > > I didn't gave up the work on it but I understood I can't
> > > get the numbers in easy and simple relations.
> > >  
> > > Rick metioned it, and I repeat it now.
> > > The APAIR.Bells layout can mimic the gas-phasing
> > > relations common in Alpha's but in a pure Beta engine.
> > > This includes Delta P what is related to a high Delta T.
> > > What most did not read in the document is that it can
> > > easely be configured as any Beta type, ofcourse its a Beta.
> > >  
> > > The drive-train proposed on the Allan.O.J site is the one
> > > mentioned in the APAIR.Bells document
> > > (page 3 end of section 3.1)
> > > U.S. patent 4,546,663 Oct. 15, 1985;
> > > Drive linkage for Stirling cycle and other machines
> > > James G. Wood, Sunpower INC.
> > > It lacks the fine tuning of the lateral deviations at point T
> > > Zig, Rick and me came up with. At point S the motion
> > > is a simple arc
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > CVH
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Rick <rtopf@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Rick <rtopf@>
> > > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> > > To: sesusa@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 4:34 PM
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Tom, Frank, list,
> > >
> > > I haven't given up on the twin gamma, but that is a diffent animal. The
design phase is complete and drawings made. Prototypes are in progress although
I am not doing the work personally. I have been fooling around with a sub scale
model too.
> > >
> > > CVH gave us the "hoeken beam" drive for beat's. The strokes insure that
the volume phase would match a alpha config. That's fine if everything else is
the same, but other factors can add significant differences. It is certainly
worth looking at for a 100 W project.
> > >
> > > I think it is important to make the drive kinimatics match the gas circuit
requirements as much as possible. If you can provide a simple, relitivly
straight motion, better still. The many variations of four-bar mechinisms can do
most of that well. Oddly, the linkage shown on AJO's page locks up before one
cycle.
> > >
> > > For anyone intersted, I would partner up with someone interested in
crunching the numbers for a gas circuit. Give me the bores and strokes, gaps,
and any other insight gained from AJO's work. I can make 3D and 2D computer
models, design the drive, and make shop drawings. I could also make parts.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "secretan15" <secretan15@ ...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com, "TOM GENTRY" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > > >Yup, Tom. You're right. Sorry about that.
> > > > Frank
> > > > > Frank,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The design calls for a coaxial Beta engine not a gamma. The charts are
> > > > > based on that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also we are talking a 100 W engine. Rick has a neat drive mechanism
for a
> > > > > Beta already I think.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Rick?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: sesusa@yahoogroups. com [mailto:sesusa@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of
> > > > > secretan15
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:09 PM
> > > > > To: sesusa@yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Subject: [sesusa] Re: Any teams out there yet??
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
"rptopf"
> > > > > <rtopf@> wrote:
> > > > > >Hi Rick. Nice to hear from you. How about using your Twin Gamma
Stirling (
> > > > > TGS ) as a great starting point for a 100 watt engine. You've carried
this
> > > > > so far, it looks like there might be many possible ways for us to
implement
> > > > > your design. In fact, I have started an implementation based on your
design
> > > > > but with some simplifying assumptions to allow it to be built in a
small
> > > > > home shop like mine. Some discussion on the progress of your engine
and my
> > > > > attempts might be useful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Frank
> > > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am just catching up with the posts from the last couple of months
and
> > > > > saw your call to action.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While AJO gives some sizing guidence and kinimatics for a linkage,
it is a
> > > > > long way from a design ready to build.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If someone would like to partner up with me I may take up the
challenge. I
> > > > > know Frank and Matt live in my area, but I don't think that is a
> > > > > requirement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a lathe, mill, and welding for fab. I can make 3D models and
> > > > > drawings too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be particularly interested in trying a quartz window for
direct
> > > > > heat input via radiation (concentrated sunlight).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rick
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In sesusa@yahoogroups. com <mailto:sesusa% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
> > > > > "tomg3usa" <t.gentry@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At our last flurry of postings I got the idea that teams were
being
> > > > > formed to collaborate on building the 100 Watt engine. Anything
happening
> > > > > there? Anyone need help with a design?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Harry is way ahead of most of us in his construction of the
outboard.
> > > > > But the outboard is a bigger engine and Harry is using the charts for
the
> > > > > 1kW engine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The discussion about groups was on the 100W beta engine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Tom
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Hello Tom,
                Some power measurements have been taken on my 4 DA 800 engine. 
35 Watts at 350 rpm.  Very disappointing from a 800cc engine but not unexpected.
There is not enough heat transfer area plus other wrong things.  I am planning
to add fins outside the heaters and folded (diagonally cut) brass wire mesh
inside.   I have looked at the fast track charts but can't seem to fit my engine
there.  It can only tolerate up to 3 atmospheres pressurization and the charts
call for much more than that.  There are some good points though.  The new
burner is lighter and burns well but could be cranked up a bit.  The seals are
good, however when cold, one cylinder is better than the other three making
starting difficult.  It is certainly not self starting.
   When hot and running well the engine is very smooth up to 400 revs and down to
60 or so. Above 500 revs some vertical vibration starts. The Pin drive works
well but the needle bearings will need to be replaced with ball races. It is
very quiet compared to the Vee Twin Alpha.  The open cylinders of the single
acting Alpha seem to amplify the noise.    The water flow divider works well but
no modifications to the coolers to correct the leaks have been done. I believe
the regenerator volumes are too big and perhaps are too densely filled.  It will
be fairly easy to modify things for trials.  There is probably too much gas
friction so I will increase the cross section area of the heaters first and
perhaps shorten them.  I have put a video of it running on the brake, on You
tube under "Stirling boats"  and then my name (Harry Diers), with other engines
of the Stirling Engine Society.
IT is Spring time now and after a very cold, wet winter we have lots of flowers.
Cheers,   Harry.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]