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IBM Research jumps into battery development with lithium air technol   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #6812 of 7333 |
Re: [sfbayoil] IBM Research jumps into battery development with lithium air technology


David,
    GREAT chart/graph. Would you have it in a higher resolution? I send an occasional great graph to a statistics professor friend - he likes to toss one out each class - candy. For instance, did you see this one?: http://tinyurl.com/2kls5v
    Started thinking about graphs after I read some comments by Charlie Munger [which I'll cut and paste]:
 
    He comments that biology created a neural apparatus that could do high
speed calculations of differential equations at high speed but was generally
ignorant about ordinary probabilies and numbers. This was understandable
because they had to run and throw spears and such.
    The invention of the graph put numbers in a form that looked like motion
and made them understandable, 'Mankind invented a system to cope with the
fact that we are so intrinsically lousy at manipulating numbers. It's called
the graph.'
    He commented, 'It's the only intellectual invention of the monks during
the Middle Ages I know that's worth a damn.'

He also goes on about logn scales being great because a straight line is exponential, and that it is the basic compound interest scheme [e being 100% compounded at infinitesimal intervals].
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: David F
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: [sfbayoil] IBM Research jumps into battery development with lithium air technology

Paul,

 

I wouldn’t count on it. I compiled this chart for a recent talk I gave showing energy density comparisons in MJ/kg. Notice how Li ion compares against gasoline. Even a doubling or tripling would be meanlingless compared to what gasoline provides. I have little doubt that electric cars will become city cars and commute cars, but they will not achieve the same range and functionality of a gasoline ICE. Consider also that the largest remaining reserves of lithium are in the brine flats of Bolivia, which nationalized its oil and gas industries two years ago. Is it conceivable that corporations will be able to just come and extract lithium to their needs to provide for norteamericano driving?

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

From: sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sfbayoil@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Nellen
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:54 AM
To: nocalpcn; SF Bay Peak Oil Group
Subject: [sfbayoil] IBM Research jumps into battery development with lithium air technology

 





Perhaps a fundamental break-through within the next decade which allows individual mobility as we know it? I'm curious how JH Kunstler will comment on that ;-)

Paul

--

IBM Research jumps into battery development with lithium air technology
Jun 24 2009 10:12AM

http://www.edn.com/blog/1470000147/post/1940045994.html

Last month, researchers at the University of St Andrews in Scotland announced their efforts to develop a rechargeable lithium-air battery that could deliver a 10x increase in energy capacity compared to that of currently available lithium-ion cells. Research has included investigating the materials issues associated with a non-aqueous O2 electrode. (Keeping the water out while letting in oxygen from the air is tricky but necessary because of lithium's violent reaction with water.)
"The key is to use oxygen in the air as a re-agent, rather than carry the necessary chemicals around inside the battery. says Professor Peter Bruce of the Chemistry Department at the University of St Andrews, principal investigator." [via Green Car Congress.]
Now, IBM Research has announced that its Almaden Research Center in San Jose, CA will partner with Oak Ridge, Lawrence Berkeley, Lawrence Livermore, Argonne, and Pacific Northwest national labs develop lithium air batteries.
“IBM is pursuing the risky technology instead of lithium-ion batteries because it has the potential to reach high enough energy densities to change the transportation system, says Chandrasekhar Narayan, manager of science and technology at IBM's Almaden Research Center, in San Jose, CA. "With all foreseeable developments, lithium-ion batteries are only going to get about two times better than they are today," he says. "To really make an impact on transportation and on the grid, you need higher energy density than that."
One of the project's goals is a lightweight 500-mile battery for a family car.

http://www.edn.com/blog/1470000147/post/1940045994.html



Wed Jul 1, 2009 8:07 am

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Perhaps a fundamental break-through within the next decade which allows individual mobility as we know it? I'm curious how JH Kunstler will comment on that ;-)...
Paul Nellen
pnellen
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Jun 27, 2009
11:54 am

Paul, I wouldn’t count on it. I compiled this chart for a recent talk I gave showing energy density comparisons in MJ/kg. Notice how Li ion compares against...
David F
david_fridley
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Jun 29, 2009
3:54 am

David, GREAT chart/graph. Would you have it in a higher resolution? I send an occasional great graph to a statistics professor friend - he likes to toss one...
Richard L Hughes
rlhughes_com...
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Jul 1, 2009
8:21 am
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