-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Warner <draycott@...>
To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Feb 5, 2010 9:21 pm
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Geoge Bush
Hi Judy.
Rosalie Figge and I used to visit George Bush's garden on the outskirts of York, PA every year. George lived by himself and loved his garden. He hybridized several wonderful Japanese irises. Tea Ceremony, Japanese Sandman, Imperial Kimono and Pink Canopy were some of my favorites. I used to buy plants from him each year and often felt like I was rescuing the plants because his garden was a bit overgrown with companion plants (weeds). His plants, though, were always well marked and he would dig a nice hunk for you.
Frosty Rim is a great landscape iris and I still grow it. The silver rim was so faint that you almost needed a microscope to see it but it was just enough the set the flower apart from any ordinary blue-violet Siberian. I used to rate the Siberian irises in my catalog and it always received a 5/5/5 which meant it grew extremely well and had all the desirable characteristics you could ask for in a small diploid Siberian. I have sold tons of it so it should still be growing in many gardens across the nation.
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Judy,
I attempted to order from him very late in his life, I'm thinking late
'90's? I believe he was from the Erie, PA area. Cornell University,
where I work, used to have a peony display garden, which had a large
planting of Frosty Rim. He also hybridized Blue Hyacinth, a dwarf cv.
which is still around, and Pink Hyacinth, which i asked him about in a
phone conversation. He said it was extinct, all stock lost to some disease.
Ken
Robert Hollingworth wrote:
>
> Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not
> the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came
> from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this -
> please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him.
> The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his
> Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
> Judy Hollingworth
>
>
Thanks everyone for your info. on our George Bush - what a great response - Dennis's response made me laugh out loud!! I also heard from Hal Griffie who said that George used to take a "trick" iris to their show every year to try and fool the judges! He must have been quite a character.
We plan to fill up odd spaces in the issue with memorable quotes from Siberianites (sorry -made up word) If you have any to share- please let me know
Thanks a bunch Judy
Judy Hollingworth
Thanks Dennis - this was a delight to read! Glad to see you mentioned 'Spirit of York' - it is one of my favorites.
Ellen (in the White Mts. where it is too cold to snow tonight....)
From: academyhouse <academyhouse@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 10:00:57 PM Subject: Re: [sibrob] Geoge Bush
Judy,
I didn't do a double-take. I'm pretty sure George Clinton Bush was a Democrat. <grin> He is the first person to ever suggest to me that I should join the AIS. He was originally from Maryland and ran Magnolia Farm Iris Gardens in Freeland, Maryland, which is just south of the Pennsylvania line off I-83. He relocated to York, PA and in the early 60's and sold irises under the name Meadowcroft Gardens. When I met him nearly 20 years ago, he introduced and sold irises from his home on Memory Lane Extended in York. The nursery was listed simply as "George C. Bush". His first Japanese iris introduction was 'Japanese Sandman' (1980). George also introduced JI's for Bill Ackerman and at least one JI for Sterling Innerst.
George was Region 3 librarian and was a member of the Susquehanna Iris Society. He was quite a character. There are many "George" stories. One of my favorites was when Clarence Mahan was addressing the SIS. George was quite feeble, but determined and independent. In the middle of Clarence's program, George got up from his chair. It was quite a production, with several false starts. As he tried to push himself out of the chair he grunted loudly. The sound was a little disconcerting. Clarence stopped the presentation and asked him if everything was okay. George responded "Everything is fine. You just bore me."
Even though George was most supportive of the AIS, he felt that foreigners knew more than Americans and were more likely to "get it right". He took great pride in giving me a copy of an order he received from Barry Blyth in 1982. He took issue with the SJI when the registration for 'Rose Queen' was changed from I. laevigata to I. ensata. As proof of the folly of the SJI and the AIS, he produced a French catalog listing 'Rose Queen' as I. laevigata. I reviewed the taxonomy of the two species and he still insisted that the French could not possibly be wrong.
I visited George frequently in his last year or so. He had knee surgery and didn't fair well through rehab. One time a few friends went with me and we took him out to dinner in a Ruby Tuesday's at the mall close to his house. The place was crowded and we sat at the bar and had drinks while we waited for a table. I remember it clearly. He had a Manhattan. He was giddy with excitement over actually sitting in a bar and having a drink.
George and I corresponded frequently. His postcards and letters were a delight to read. I've saved most of them. I'm sure I have photographs of him, but it will take a while to find them. I have a letter from George which is unfortunately not dated, but I'm pretty sure that it was from late December of 1998. In it, he describes 'Skies over York' which was registered in 1999. "I'm introducing a blue Siberian out of 'Spirit of York'. Identical but a blue bitone in lieu of rosy orchid."
I was in York on business a year or so after George died. I drove by his garden. He house had been torn down and a new house had been built. There was no evidence that irises had ever grown there.
Dennis Hager
on Delmarva--where the wind is gusting to 40 mph as the snow comes down.
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
I didn't do a double-take. I'm pretty sure George Clinton Bush was a Democrat. <grin> He is the first person to ever suggest to me that I should join the AIS. He was originally from Maryland and ran Magnolia Farm Iris Gardens in Freeland, Maryland, which is just south of the Pennsylvania line off I-83. He relocated to York, PA and in the early 60's and sold irises under the name Meadowcroft Gardens. When I met him nearly 20 years ago, he introduced and sold irises from his home on Memory Lane Extended in York. The nursery was listed simply as "George C. Bush". His first Japanese iris introduction was 'Japanese Sandman' (1980). George also introduced JI's for Bill Ackerman and at least one JI for Sterling Innerst.
George was Region 3 librarian and was a member of the Susquehanna Iris Society. He was quite a character. There are many "George" stories. One of my favorites was when Clarence Mahan was addressing the SIS. George was quite feeble, but determined and independent. In the middle of Clarence's program, George got up from his chair. It was quite a production, with several false starts. As he tried to push himself out of the chair he grunted loudly. The sound was a little disconcerting. Clarence stopped the presentation and asked him if everything was okay. George responded "Everything is fine. You just bore me."
Even though George was most supportive of the AIS, he felt that foreigners knew more than Americans and were more likely to "get it right". He took great pride in giving me a copy of an order he received from Barry Blyth in 1982. He took issue with the SJI when the registration for 'Rose Queen' was changed from I. laevigata to I. ensata. As proof of the folly of the SJI and the AIS, he produced a French catalog listing 'Rose Queen' as I. laevigata. I reviewed the taxonomy of the two species and he still insisted that the French could not possibly be wrong.
I visited George frequently in his last year or so. He had knee surgery and didn't fair well through rehab. One time a few friends went with me and we took him out to dinner in a Ruby Tuesday's at the mall close to his house. The place was crowded and we sat at the bar and had drinks while we waited for a table. I remember it clearly. He had a Manhattan. He was giddy with excitement over actually sitting in a bar and having a drink.
George and I corresponded frequently. His postcards and letters were a delight to read. I've saved most of them. I'm sure I have photographs of him, but it will take a while to find them. I have a letter from George which is unfortunately not dated, but I'm pretty sure that it was from late December of 1998. In it, he describes 'Skies over York' which was registered in 1999. "I'm introducing a blue Siberian out of 'Spirit of York'. Identical but a blue bitone in lieu of rosy orchid."
I was in York on business a year or so after George died. I drove by his garden. He house had been torn down and a new house had been built. There was no evidence that irises had ever grown there.
Dennis Hager
on Delmarva--where the wind is gusting to 40 mph as the snow comes down.
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Rosalie Figge and I used to visit George Bush's garden on the outskirts of York, PA every year. George lived by himself and loved his garden. He hybridized several wonderful Japanese irises. Tea Ceremony, Japanese Sandman, Imperial Kimono and Pink Canopy were some of my favorites. I used to buy plants from him each year and often felt like I was rescuing the plants because his garden was a bit overgrown with companion plants (weeds). His plants, though, were always well marked and he would dig a nice hunk for you.
Frosty Rim is a great landscape iris and I still grow it. The silver rim was so faint that you almost needed a microscope to see it but it was just enough the set the flower apart from any ordinary blue-violet Siberian. I used to rate the Siberian irises in my catalog and it always received a 5/5/5 which meant it grew extremely well and had all the desirable characteristics you could ask for in a small diploid Siberian. I have sold tons of it so it should still be growing in many gardens across the nation.
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Also 1979 10 yr check list (Frosty Rim was introduced in 1979) shows the same address but no Garden Name. Rita
In a message dated 2/5/2010 4:23:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, GormleyGreenery@... writes:
Judy, AIS MemSec records show a :Drops 1999 for
GEORGE C. BUSH
1739 MEMORY LN EXT YORK, PA 17402-9623
Nothing under AIS current or deceased. 1999 10 yr checklist shows George C. Bush (deceased) York, PA AIS.
Hope this helps!
Rita Gormley
In a message dated 2/5/2010 3:55:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cyberiris@netscape.net writes:
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Nothing under AIS current or deceased. 1999 10 yr checklist shows George C. Bush (deceased) York, PA AIS.
Hope this helps!
Rita Gormley
In a message dated 2/5/2010 3:55:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cyberiris@... writes:
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
I used to order from him every year, probably back in the 80s and early 90s. I even have some lovely ensata seedlings he sent me one year. If I remember correctly, he lived in eastern Pennsyvania.
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
In a message dated 2/5/2010 3:55:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cyberiris@... writes:
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
Judy Hollingworth
Hi Judy is the George Bush that sold Japanese Iris?If it is he was down Pennsylvania/Maryland way, went on a club trip and stopped at his garden, Sterling was not far from him or Carol Warner if this is the same guy. Stay warm. :>) Peter Weixlmann
Don't do a double take! I'm referencing the hybridizer George Bush not the ex-president! Does anyone know of him, what AIS region he came from, where he lived. If someone in his region is reading this - please feel obligated to write me a couple of paragraphs about him. The reason I need this is because he won an AM in 1986 for his Siberian Frosty Rim. Thanks in anticipation. Judy
I just found a list of Morgan Aw and it was '51, Tycoon (actually '52). That would be before SSI was formed, correct? Jill has all the AIS bulletins, wo maybe she can confirm that. amm
I think I was wrong about SSI membership, '62 AIS and probably '72 for SSI. There was an Allen that was at Mansfield OH Gardens, can't recall who. anna mae
Well, I tried this source for information for TSI and got a wonderful response from Anner Whitehead with all the info. that I needed on peggy Burke-Grey- so I'm trying my luck again.
It states in the AIS bulletin that a Mr. Robert Allen proposed that an award for the best Siberian (AM) be named the Morgan Award (in honor of F. Cleveland Morgan) - anyone know anything about Mr. Allen?
Does anybody have details on Peggy Burke-Grey? She was President of SSI in 1971 and lived in St. Helena and Calistoga California. I also have a group photo that she is on at the AIS Convention in NY in 1970.
It is with great sadness that I am letting you know that the American Iris Society President, Dr. E. Roy Epperson, passed away suddenly last weekend.
It goes without saying that Roy will be greatly missed not only by those of us who knew him and worked with him for many years, but also by many others in the world of iris.
Services for Dr. Epperson are as follows:
Visitation on Thursday, January 28 at 5:30 pm at High Point University, 833 Moutlieu Ave., High Point, NC.
Funeral on Friday, January 29 at 11 am at Christ United Methodist Church, 1300 N. College Drive, High Point, NC.
In lieu of flowers, donations in Roy's memory may be made to the American Iris Society General Fund.
Hi
TSI arrived in my part of New Zealand yesterday.
Thanks to all of the contributors for the outstanding articles.
Regards Terry Johnson
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com, "Iris Clarke" <iris.clarke1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> Just to let you know I received the TSI bulletin the very next day
,would
> you believe. Nice stories and photo's as usual.Still waiting for the
Review.
> Brock is certainly a very talented photographer .He did have some
marvelous
> plants to work with though,thanks to you Bob and Judy.
> Thanks for replying so promptly.
> Regards Iris Clarke
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Robert Hollingworth
> Date: 03/01/2010 18:57:54
> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [sibrob] TSI
>
>
> Hi Iris:
>
> TSI was mailed before Christmas - we have received the extra copies so
it
> must be in the mail!!
>
> The seedling pics were taken by Brock Heilman a very talenteded and
> enthusiastic young member from Michigan
>
> Happy New Year to one and all
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> Bob and Judy Hollingworth
>
We appreciate the vigorous discussion of the wiki topic; however, please trim
your posts. Although we are no longer on dial-up, the copies of previous posts
really clog up downloads for those of us on digest. Thanks. Linda Karr,
Newport Naturals Iris Gardens, now under 2 inches of ice rather than the 124
inches of snow we had this time last year. El Nino weather for Northeast
Washington state. Low last night 8 degrees. High for tomorrow 37 degrees
From:
sibrob@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sibrob@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Pries Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 7:58 AM To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia clump pics
Jeff; That would be great. In
general topics to the left on the wiki main page I am gradually creating a
series of cultivation topics for each type of iris. The Culture of Sivberians
will then be linked to the Siberian entry page and the vice versa. I reallize
that culture varies in different climates but the beauty of the wiki is that a
number of people can contribute to a page adding more and more information.
Thanks Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "dunlopjj" <dunlopjj@...>
To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 8:30:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia clump pics
Hi Bob
We have a one page Culture and Transplanting sheet which includes a section on
Rejuvenating older plants. I will send you a copy of the file in a private
email if you would like to use any, or all of it for reference. This is usually
provided with plants sent from our gardens. Most folks who sell Siberians
through the mail have a similar sheet of instructions they too provide. Some of
these may differ a little in their specific recommendations.
Jeff Dunlop
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com,
Robert Pries <robertpries@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim: I think you should know that you are one of my heroes for all the
work you have done publicizing Siberians. I hope everyone has seen your
website. I personally invite you to come play on the wiki. There are lots of
topics that need development such as Culture of Siberians, Transplanting
Siberians, Germination of Siberians etc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Wilson" <wilsonjh@...>
> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:58:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [sibrob] Iris Encyclopedia clump pics
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> 
> I'd also like to encourage people to submit pictures of growing
clumps instead of just flower pictures. For siberians, this gives a much
fuller understanding of the
plant.           Â
--Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Pries
> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because
different light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is
set to accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people
will put up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions.
>
Jeff; That would be great. In general topics to the left on the wiki main page I am gradually creating a series of cultivation topics for each type of iris. The Culture of Sivberians will then be linked to the Siberian entry page and the vice versa. I reallize that culture varies in different climates but the beauty of the wiki is that a number of people can contribute to a page adding more and more information. Thanks Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "dunlopjj" <dunlopjj@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 8:30:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia clump pics
Hi Bob
We have a one page Culture and Transplanting sheet which includes a section on Rejuvenating older plants. I will send you a copy of the file in a private email if you would like to use any, or all of it for reference. This is usually provided with plants sent from our gardens. Most folks who sell Siberians through the mail have a similar sheet of instructions they too provide. Some of these may differ a little in their specific recommendations.
Jeff Dunlop
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pries <robertpries@...> wrote: > > > > Jim: I think you should know that you are one of my heroes for all the work you have done publicizing Siberians. I hope everyone has seen your website. I personally invite you to come play on the wiki. There are lots of topics that need development such as Culture of Siberians, Transplanting Siberians, Germination of Siberians etc. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Wilson" <wilsonjh@...> > To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:58:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [sibrob] Iris Encyclopedia clump pics > >  > > > > >  > I'd also like to encourage people to submit pictures of growing clumps instead of just flower pictures. For siberians, this gives a much fuller understanding of the plant.            --Jim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Pries > To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:08 AM > Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register > >  > > > > > > Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because different light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is set to accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people will put up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions. >
Hi Bob
We have a one page Culture and Transplanting sheet which includes a section on
Rejuvenating older plants. I will send you a copy of the file in a private
email if you would like to use any, or all of it for reference. This is usually
provided with plants sent from our gardens. Most folks who sell Siberians
through the mail have a similar sheet of instructions they too provide. Some of
these may differ a little in their specific recommendations.
Jeff Dunlop
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pries <robertpries@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim: I think you should know that you are one of my heroes for all the work
you have done publicizing Siberians. I hope everyone has seen your website. I
personally invite you to come play on the wiki. There are lots of topics that
need development such as Culture of Siberians, Transplanting Siberians,
Germination of Siberians etc.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Wilson" <wilsonjh@...>
> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:58:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [sibrob] Iris Encyclopedia clump pics
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> 
> I'd also like to encourage people to submit pictures of growing clumps
instead of just flower pictures. For siberians, this gives a much fuller
understanding of the plant.            --Jim
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Pries
> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because different
light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is set to
accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people will put
up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions.
>
Jim: I think you should know that you are one of my heroes for all the work you have done publicizing Siberians. I hope everyone has seen your website. I personally invite you to come play on the wiki. There are lots of topics that need development such as Culture of Siberians, Transplanting Siberians, Germination of Siberians etc.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Wilson" <wilsonjh@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 11:58:40 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [sibrob] Iris Encyclopedia clump pics

I'd also like to encourage people to submit pictures of growing clumps instead of just flower pictures. For siberians, this gives a much fuller understanding of the plant. --Jim
Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because different light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is set to accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people will put up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions.
I'd also like to encourage people to submit pictures of growing clumps instead of just flower pictures. For siberians, this gives a much fuller understanding of the plant. --Jim
Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because different light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is set to accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people will put up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions.
Yes pictures help a lot. And the more pictures the better because different light conditions can affect what one sees. At present each page is set to accomodate 20 pictures but that can be expanded. Hopefully many people will put up an image so we see a diversity of cameras, lighting and loactions.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Polly Kinsman" <pollykinsman@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 10:46:00 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register
Isn't one obvious difference pictures?
Having a business selling beardless irises, I want to be as positive as I can be of the cultivar I am selling. I can look at the description, but to have a picture to compare it to would be a tremendous help.
Polly
To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com From: robertpries@... Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:03:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register
Jones comments made me think that maybe I should point out some similarities between the wiki and the Iris register. I believe there will always be a need for both. The register has authority behind it because it can only be changed or created by its experienced team and reflects the official registrations. The wiki is maleable, and even though it is watched over, at any point in time, an error can be present. It may be changed within a short period, but it is not locked like the Register. Therefore the Register and the printed R & I s should always have more authority. Also the wiki and the Register do searchs in very different ways. Each has benefits that the other does not. The wiki will never be complete for any length of time whereas the register once it is finished will contain every registration to the previous year. As the wiki proceeds dual users will see great value in both.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John I Jones" <jijones@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 12:11:21 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
I am trying to understand what the conflict is all about.
The first question that pops into my mind is: What information does the Cumulative Checklist of Siberian Irises have that is not available in any of the published AIS Checklists? In a (albeit quick) look at the 2000 Cumulative Check List nothing jumps out to me as additional information except that there is a call for descriptions of irises that have no (or at least an intelligible) description in the AIS Check Lists.
If that is the case then irisregister.com already has a lot of the information contained in the Cumulative Siberian Checklist. Granted not all the descriptions from the 1949 and 1939 Checklists are in irisregister YET, but we are getting there.
If the Wiki collects information from all sources as it seems to be doing from irisregister, then it is merely an alternative source. Whether this information collection is made easier by using the Cumulative Check List or not just dictates the time frame not the end result.
Now if the Cumulative Check List has additional information and claims trademark on that "additional" information, the issue gets a little more sticky. But if that were the case I would like to reference the citation on page 1 of the 2000 Cumulative Checklist that acknowledges the permission from the American Iris Society to use the information in the AIS Check Lists in the Siberian Checklist.
I have a lot if experience with the web and websites and I can tell you that the AIS wiki will send people to the Siberian website. We might even want to make a link to the Section websites a requirement for each page in the wiki that has a entry for in iris in that Section.
Creating a wiki is not a trivial mater, even on the "we do it for you" sites.
Chairman, AIS Committee for Electronic Member Services
On Jan 4, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Robert Pries wrote:
Terry you really are vicious. I think the master and his dog comment is a bit over the top.Why do you wish to divide the Siberian Society away from the AIS. The AIS president is the editor of the Siberian Checklist The president of the Siberian Societiys Husband is on the AIS Foundation We are one. Trying to marginalize the Siberians away from AIS seem ridiculous. The section was created to promote the Siberians by AIS members. I can not see how your warning that cooperating with the AIS wiki will diminish in any way Siberian Iris. there are exceptions, but I believe most members belong to both. and I am a life member of the Siberian Society also. You argue that AIS creating the wiki is going to harm the Siberian Society but then do not care if the Siberian Society forming a wiki would harm the AIS. You seem to be only concerned about your interests. I am creating a comprehensive encyclopedia for all Irises. It is not necessary that the Siberian Society cooperate. There are many members of both societies that would like to see a comprehensive database. Yes I think there would be competition between sites if one did both and they did the same thing. I happen to believe the comprehensive site could bring more people to Siberians than the solely Siberian site. Your attitude is why the various Irus groups accomplish less than their potential. If everyone followed your argument there would be ten wikis one for each group of Iris and Dave's garden would still be the premier source of Iris information on the internet because the search engines would direct people there first because it gets more hits. I not so much opposed to the Siberian having their own wiki as your emphasis on telling people not to cooperate wuth the one I am developing.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Johnson" <tjatwork@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 4:33:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
Robert, Thank you for your comments. I find it is somewhat bemusing how some people lofty positions have such a poor understanding of the way the Internet actually works. If we load all our Cumulative Checklist information onto the AIS web site, we will direct digital traffic away from the Siberian Iris Web site and to the AIS site that is a fact which you seem to ignore or fail to understand. Its just the way the Internet via the search engine process works. This is the danger for small Societies and the 'Quid pro quo' a link back to the Siberian web site which will not have the equivalent information has the effect of the AIS dominating a section.Whether this intentional or not is not the point
Talking to the Presidents of the other plant societies that you have listed would not give you any helpful information with regards to the uniqueness of the AIS situation where various smaller sections and cooperating societies attached to the Parent Society will be affected by corralling all their individual and unique species information on to one central site and digitally making these societies irrelevant by an act of so called kindness.
I am still of the opinion that both the AIS and SSI can have a Siberian Wiki attached to their respective web sites and should the SSI agree to this, the outcome of the SSI having its own Wiki will manage the above highlighted risks.For the SSI to do nothing now and try and play catch up at a later date is a risk I am advising the SSI not to take. I have been contacted by members of other smaller sections and cooperating societies who are having exactly the same concerns in discussions that I am not a participant.
As a matter of interest, I joined and paid life membership of the SSI before I became a member of the AIS, so there is certainly nothing unique there.
Most insightful to see the analogy of a Master and his dog been used with reference to The Society for Siberian Irises.
Robert Pries wrote:
Marty and Jan should know by now that I have always been supportive of the sections and have done more work on sectional projects than most people long before I came to the AIS board, I do not remember Terry ever writing an article for the SSI bulletin, I sure it was not memorable but I can claim at least one. I started this project over five years ago hoping it would help all Iris societies. I agree we all need a better internet prescence. I thought I was being useful to all the groups and am a little dissappointed that Terry see this as AIS dominating a section. For heavens sake we are all supposed to be part of one big society but somehow it seems we are supposed to be competive with each other. I do not see this. I have a dog that when I give her a treat she misjudges and bites my finger. After awhile one does not give many treats. I thought I was doing something nice for the Siberian Society but I feel like my finger hurts.
While working on this project I have talked with the presidents of the Hemerocallis Society, The Rock Garden Society, and the director of the Daffodil Society plus the directer of the wiki of the pacific Bulb Society trying to see what their experiences have been. Presently what we are creating is much more open and free to everyone yet somehow that message does not seem to be heard. The reason there have been discussions about limiting access for posting, but not viewing is that there have been instances of people putting pornography up a least one plant wiki and that is why most are more closed that our system. If we encounter malevalence in the future we may have to limit access. But we are not trying to exclude or profit from this site.
I came to the Iris society through the dwarf section and the species section, later I joined AIS. My experience seems to be relatively unique. Most people join the Iris society and then discover various types of Iris and join the sections. It would seem to me that encouraging membership in AIS could only bring more people to the Siberian Section. If one looks at the wiki even while under construction it sends people to all the plant societies whether they are cooperating or not. I will continue to support the Siberian section whether they wish to support my efforts or not. This is not about just a certain group but about Iris.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jpwflowers@... To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2010 8:51:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
Hi all,
When Terry's post came, Marty and I talked about it and our first reaction was that we didn't see why it mattered whether the Wiki for Siberians is in the AIS Wiki or on an SSI Wiki. Since AIS has already started it, why not just have it there. And what a wonderful thing it would be. But the ensuing posts shows how important it is for there to be a thorough discussion about this. I think wherever the Wiki is, it should be available to everyone, not just members of AIS or SSI. The thing that makes the internet so fabulous is that most of the information is free to anyone. I think plant societies, including AIS and SSI, should attract new members by the vitality of their society and not by making their on-line information exclusive to members only. We want to excite people about Iris growing and then they will want to be part of our organizations. The internet is an opportunity to reach people we never have before. (This concept was put forth very well by Anner Whitehead in the last BIS Yearbook.)
If AIS does not want to make this information available to all, then I think SSI should consider doing it on their own website. I was pleased to get the link to Daffseek. The information there is great and the pedigrees are a bonus. I am not a member of the Am Daffodil Society but the information on the site is valuable to me. Having such a good site might draw me into joining the society.
Maybe through a sharing of thoughts on this subject we can improve the whole project, or start a new one.
Jan Sacks
-----Original Message----- From: tjnzatwork <tjatwork@...> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:10 pm Subject: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL
This subject of the Iris encyclopedia needs to be discussed within the SSI and it is important that the Society for Siberian Iris gets more air . Why not start our own Wiki for Siberians as the SSI checklist is the best example of a Cumulative Check list that I have seen so why should all that hard work be to the advantage of another Iris Society.There is a mountain of photos of siberians within the membership and as we are well aware the culture of Siberian Irises is relatively young and most of the legendary Hybridisers are still alive to place there own thoughts on their fantastic breeding efforts, so Why not??? The Daffodil Society started a site Daffseek just pull down the Division and select and then select a country press 'submit query' and "Voilà " Check out the Pedigree Chart.
If we have an asset in our society we should think seriously before we give it away,which is what Bob is asking, and if we do give it away how hard will it be for the Society for Siberian Iris to stay relevant in this digital world.
As our Cumulative Check list is already digital in the form of a word doc it would only take weeks to get a wiki type function attached to our existing Web Site.
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pries <robertpries@...> wrote: > > > > Here is a new site under development that needs your help. The Americn Iris Society is creating an online encyclopedia of Iris. If you are familiar with the wikipedia than you know what the potential is for this site. At first glance you may think it is only and online illustrated checklist of every type of Iris. You would be correct but it will be much more. There are 65,000 entries in the AIS checklists and ultimately all will have their own page, up to 20 pictures for each and a chance for scores of people to add information. Presntly we have a small crew that in the last couple of monthes have put up over 1,000 cultivars but our goal is to have at least 10,000 pages up before it appears to the world on the AIS website. Presently the beginning of the alphabet has the most entries and medians and MDBs have the most pages up. We need your help to give the Siberians the representation they deserve. I invite you to visit the beginnings and see if you would like to be a part of this monumental venture. If so send me an e-mail at robertpries@... and let me know. but first go to this url and take a look: > > http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ellen Gallagher" ellengalla@... > To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:26:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [sibrob] test message > > Â > > > > > > > Happy Holidays! >
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Having a business selling beardless irises, I want to be as positive as I can be of the cultivar I am selling. I can look at the description, but to have a picture to compare it to would be a tremendous help.
Polly
To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com From: robertpries@... Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 10:03:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia-register
Jones comments made me think that maybe I should point out some similarities between the wiki and the Iris register. I believe there will always be a need for both. The register has authority behind it because it can only be changed or created by its experienced team and reflects the official registrations. The wiki is maleable, and even though it is watched over, at any point in time, an error can be present. It may be changed within a short period, but it is not locked like the Register. Therefore the Register and the printed R & I s should always have more authority. Also the wiki and the Register do searchs in very different ways. Each has benefits that the other does not. The wiki will never be complete for any length of time whereas the register once it is finished will contain every registration to the previous year. As the wiki proceeds dual users will see great value in both.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John I Jones" <jijones@usjoneses.com> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2010 12:11:21 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
I am trying to understand what the conflict is all about.
The first question that pops into my mind is: What information does the Cumulative Checklist of Siberian Irises have that is not available in any of the published AIS Checklists? In a (albeit quick) look at the 2000 Cumulative Check List nothing jumps out to me as additional information except that there is a call for descriptions of irises that have no (or at least an intelligible) description in the AIS Check Lists.
If that is the case then irisregister.com already has a lot of the information contained in the Cumulative Siberian Checklist. Granted not all the descriptions from the 1949 and 1939 Checklists are in irisregister YET, but we are getting there.
If the Wiki collects information from all sources as it seems to be doing from irisregister, then it is merely an alternative source. Whether this information collection is made easier by using the Cumulative Check List or not just dictates the time frame not the end result.
Now if the Cumulative Check List has additional information and claims trademark on that "additional" information, the issue gets a little more sticky. But if that were the case I would like to reference the citation on page 1 of the 2000 Cumulative Checklist that acknowledges the permission from the American Iris Society to use the information in the AIS Check Lists in the Siberian Checklist.
I have a lot if experience with the web and websites and I can tell you that the AIS wiki will send people to the Siberian website. We might even want to make a link to the Section websites a requirement for each page in the wiki that has a entry for in iris in that Section.
Creating a wiki is not a trivial mater, even on the "we do it for you" sites.
Chairman, AIS Committee for Electronic Member Services
On Jan 4, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Robert Pries wrote:
Terry you really are vicious. I think the master and his dog comment is a bit over the top.Why do you wish to divide the Siberian Society away from the AIS. The AIS president is the editor of the Siberian Checklist The president of the Siberian Societiys Husband is on the AIS Foundation We are one. Trying to marginalize the Siberians away from AIS seem ridiculous. The section was created to promote the Siberians by AIS members. I can not see how your warning that cooperating with the AIS wiki will diminish in any way Siberian Iris. there are exceptions, but I believe most members belong to both. and I am a life member of the Siberian Society also. You argue that AIS creating the wiki is going to harm the Siberian Society but then do not care if the Siberian Society forming a wiki would harm the AIS. You seem to be only concerned about your interests. I am creating a comprehensive encyclopedia for all Irises. It is not necessary that the Siberian Society cooperate. There are many members of both societies that would like to see a comprehensive database. Yes I think there would be competition between sites if one did both and they did the same thing. I happen to believe the comprehensive site could bring more people to Siberians than the solely Siberian site. Your attitude is why the various Irus groups accomplish less than their potential. If everyone followed your argument there would be ten wikis one for each group of Iris and Dave's garden would still be the premier source of Iris information on the internet because the search engines would direct people there first because it gets more hits. I not so much opposed to the Siberian having their own wiki as your emphasis on telling people not to cooperate wuth the one I am developing.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Johnson" <tjatwork@orcon.net.nz> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 4:33:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
Robert, Thank you for your comments. I find it is somewhat bemusing how some people lofty positions have such a poor understanding of the way the Internet actually works. If we load all our Cumulative Checklist information onto the AIS web site, we will direct digital traffic away from the Siberian Iris Web site and to the AIS site that is a fact which you seem to ignore or fail to understand. Its just the way the Internet via the search engine process works. This is the danger for small Societies and the 'Quid pro quo' a link back to the Siberian web site which will not have the equivalent information has the effect of the AIS dominating a section.Whether this intentional or not is not the point
Talking to the Presidents of the other plant societies that you have listed would not give you any helpful information with regards to the uniqueness of the AIS situation where various smaller sections and cooperating societies attached to the Parent Society will be affected by corralling all their individual and unique species information on to one central site and digitally making these societies irrelevant by an act of so called kindness.
I am still of the opinion that both the AIS and SSI can have a Siberian Wiki attached to their respective web sites and should the SSI agree to this, the outcome of the SSI having its own Wiki will manage the above highlighted risks.For the SSI to do nothing now and try and play catch up at a later date is a risk I am advising the SSI not to take. I have been contacted by members of other smaller sections and cooperating societies who are having exactly the same concerns in discussions that I am not a participant.
As a matter of interest, I joined and paid life membership of the SSI before I became a member of the AIS, so there is certainly nothing unique there.
Most insightful to see the analogy of a Master and his dog been used with reference to The Society for Siberian Irises.
Robert Pries wrote:
Marty and Jan should know by now that I have always been supportive of the sections and have done more work on sectional projects than most people long before I came to the AIS board, I do not remember Terry ever writing an article for the SSI bulletin, I sure it was not memorable but I can claim at least one. I started this project over five years ago hoping it would help all Iris societies. I agree we all need a better internet prescence. I thought I was being useful to all the groups and am a little dissappointed that Terry see this as AIS dominating a section. For heavens sake we are all supposed to be part of one big society but somehow it seems we are supposed to be competive with each other. I do not see this. I have a dog that when I give her a treat she misjudges and bites my finger. After awhile one does not give many treats. I thought I was doing something nice for the Siberian Society but I feel like my finger hurts.
While working on this project I have talked with the presidents of the Hemerocallis Society, The Rock Garden Society, and the director of the Daffodil Society plus the directer of the wiki of the pacific Bulb Society trying to see what their experiences have been. Presently what we are creating is much more open and free to everyone yet somehow that message does not seem to be heard. The reason there have been discussions about limiting access for posting, but not viewing is that there have been instances of people putting pornography up a least one plant wiki and that is why most are more closed that our system. If we encounter malevalence in the future we may have to limit access. But we are not trying to exclude or profit from this site.
I came to the Iris society through the dwarf section and the species section, later I joined AIS. My experience seems to be relatively unique. Most people join the Iris society and then discover various types of Iris and join the sections. It would seem to me that encouraging membership in AIS could only bring more people to the Siberian Section. If one looks at the wiki even while under construction it sends people to all the plant societies whether they are cooperating or not. I will continue to support the Siberian section whether they wish to support my efforts or not. This is not about just a certain group but about Iris.
----- Original Message ----- From: Jpwflowers@aol.com To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2010 8:51:49 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
Hi all,
When Terry's post came, Marty and I talked about it and our first reaction was that we didn't see why it mattered whether the Wiki for Siberians is in the AIS Wiki or on an SSI Wiki. Since AIS has already started it, why not just have it there. And what a wonderful thing it would be. But the ensuing posts shows how important it is for there to be a thorough discussion about this. I think wherever the Wiki is, it should be available to everyone, not just members of AIS or SSI. The thing that makes the internet so fabulous is that most of the information is free to anyone. I think plant societies, including AIS and SSI, should attract new members by the vitality of their society and not by making their on-line information exclusive to members only. We want to excite people about Iris growing and then they will want to be part of our organizations. The internet is an opportunity to reach people we never have before. (This concept was put forth very well by Anner Whitehead in the last BIS Yearbook.)
If AIS does not want to make this information available to all, then I think SSI should consider doing it on their own website. I was pleased to get the link to Daffseek. The information there is great and the pedigrees are a bonus. I am not a member of the Am Daffodil Society but the information on the site is valuable to me. Having such a good site might draw me into joining the society.
Maybe through a sharing of thoughts on this subject we can improve the whole project, or start a new one.
Jan Sacks
-----Original Message----- From: tjnzatwork <tjatwork@orcon.net.nz> To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, Jan 2, 2010 3:10 pm Subject: [sibrob] Re: Iris Encyclopedia
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL
This subject of the Iris encyclopedia needs to be discussed within the SSI and it is important that the Society for Siberian Iris gets more air . Why not start our own Wiki for Siberians as the SSI checklist is the best example of a Cumulative Check list that I have seen so why should all that hard work be to the advantage of another Iris Society.There is a mountain of photos of siberians within the membership and as we are well aware the culture of Siberian Irises is relatively young and most of the legendary Hybridisers are still alive to place there own thoughts on their fantastic breeding efforts, so Why not??? The Daffodil Society started a site Daffseek just pull down the Division and select and then select a country press 'submit query' and "Voilà " Check out the Pedigree Chart.
If we have an asset in our society we should think seriously before we give it away,which is what Bob is asking, and if we do give it away how hard will it be for the Society for Siberian Iris to stay relevant in this digital world.
As our Cumulative Check list is already digital in the form of a word doc it would only take weeks to get a wiki type function attached to our existing Web Site.
--- In sibrob@yahoogroups.com, Robert Pries <robertpries@...> wrote: > > > > Here is a new site under development that needs your help. The Americn Iris Society is creating an online encyclopedia of Iris. If you are familiar with the wikipedia than you know what the potential is for this site. At first glance you may think it is only and online illustrated checklist of every type of Iris. You would be correct but it will be much more. There are 65,000 entries in the AIS checklists and ultimately all will have their own page, up to 20 pictures for each and a chance for scores of people to add information. Presntly we have a small crew that in the last couple of monthes have put up over 1,000 cultivars but our goal is to have at least 10,000 pages up before it appears to the world on the AIS website. Presently the beginning of the alphabet has the most entries and medians and MDBs have the most pages up. We need your help to give the Siberians the representation they deserve. I invite you to visit the beginnings and see if you would like to be a part of this monumental venture. If so send me an e-mail at robertpries@... and let me know. but first go to this url and take a look: > > http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ellen Gallagher" ellengalla@... > To: sibrob@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:26:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [sibrob] test message > > Â > > > > > > > Happy Holidays! >
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