Hi Bob,

See the "How To..." in the help:

Planning Tools and Observing Lists --> Print an Observing List

Clear skies,
Greg

Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
>
> Are you taking requests for upcoming Flash Demos?
>
> Something I haven't figured out how to do is print a list of objects in
> a particular catalog (i.e. Messier list or AL Double Star list).
>
> How do I do this?
>
> -Bob


--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Hi Greg,

Oops.  I should have been more descriptive of what I want to do.  How
can I print a list of my observations of objects in a particular catalog?

-Bob

Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> See the "How To..." in the help:
>
> Planning Tools and Observing Lists --> Print an Observing List
>
> Clear skies,
> Greg
>
> Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>
>> Are you taking requests for upcoming Flash Demos?
>>
>> Something I haven't figured out how to do is print a list of objects in
>> a particular catalog (i.e. Messier list or AL Double Star list).
>>
>> How do I do this?
>>
>> -Bob
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bob,

Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Oops.  I should have been more descriptive of what I want to do.  How
> can I print a list of my observations of objects in a particular catalog?

You were specific when you said "i.e. Messier list or AL Double Star
list" so I thought it was pretty straight forward.  I guess in order to
answer your question I need to know exactly what you are trying to do
(and how you define "catalog", I suppose).

Clear skies,
Greg


> -Bob
>
> Greg Crinklaw wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> See the "How To..." in the help:
>>
>> Planning Tools and Observing Lists --> Print an Observing List
>>
>> Clear skies,
>> Greg
>>
>> Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you taking requests for upcoming Flash Demos?
>>>
>>> Something I haven't figured out how to do is print a list of objects in
>>> a particular catalog (i.e. Messier list or AL Double Star list).
>>>
>>> How do I do this?
>>>
>>> -Bob
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo! Groups
Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Hi Bob,

I see now that I missed the part about "your observations" (I hadn't had
my coffee yet!).  I still don't understand what you mean by "catalog,"
although from your first message it appears you mean "observing list."
Or perhaps you mean class of objects, such as planetary nebulae?  If you
mean an astronomical catalog, such as the NGC, you would first need to
create an observing list with all the NGC objects in it via the Database
Power Search tool.

Anyhow, by "your observations" I am going to assume you mean your log
entries.  Log Entries are printed via the Log Browser.  It may be opened
via the button on the tool bar (second from left).

There are several ways to narrow down the log entries before printing
them.  For just planetary nebulae you would select the "Class" tab and
then highlight "Planetary Nebulae."  The planetaries you have logged
will appear on the right.

Click the Print/Copy button.  Now select what you want to print.  Select
"Matching log entries in browser object list" to print the planetary
nebulae (as above).

To print only those log entries for the objects in an observing list
select "All objects in this observing list" and select the observing
list group + name of the list.

Select the data you want included and click "Print."

See the Help buttons on both the Log Browser and Print/Copy Observing
Logs dialogs for additional info.

Clear skies,
Greg


Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Oops.  I should have been more descriptive of what I want to do.  How
> can I print a list of my observations of objects in a particular catalog?
>
> -Bob



--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the detailed response.

Here's my goal: I want a printed list of my observations (log entries)
for various AL clubs: Messier, Double Star, etc.  I want objects that
are on the particular list or catalog.  I don't want objects of the same
type that are not on the AL list.  Several of the lists have a mix of
object types (Messier, Hershel 400).

After reading your message, I see now what I was missing.  Using the Log
Browser, I select log entries by criteria.  I haven't yet finished
narrowing down my list but my next step is to select what I want to do
with it (print, save, export, etc) then I narrow the list of log entries
further by selecting the observation list of interest.

Here's how I did it:

1. Click "Log Book" button to see the "Log Browser" dialog.

2. Select the "Observer" tab.  Select the observer (only me in this
case).  Notice the long list of objects in the "Objects with Matching
Log Entries" list.  It's much longer than I want to print.

3. Select "Print/Copy" to see the "Print/Copy Observation Logs" dialog.

4. Select "All objects in this observing list".

5. Click "Print" or "Copy".

What confused me was that I began my log entry selection using the log
browser to see a subset of all my entries but not the narrow list I'm
truly interested in for this print.  My intuition doesn't want to hit
the "Print" button yet because the list is too long.  It's only after I
click "Print" (or whatever) that I narrow the list further.  At this
point I don't get  to see the objects in the list.  The "Objects with
Matching Log Entries" is not updated (or even visible really) with the
shorter list of objects.   This is confusing to me and, I'll bet, other
users.

I think this would be a good candidate for a Flash Demo.  Hearing your
voice describe the actions as we watch the demo helps to get into the
frame of mind that you used as you developed the UI of this software.

Thanks for your help.

-Bob

Greg Crinklaw wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> I see now that I missed the part about "your observations" (I hadn't had
> my coffee yet!).  I still don't understand what you mean by "catalog,"
> although from your first message it appears you mean "observing list."
> Or perhaps you mean class of objects, such as planetary nebulae?  If you
> mean an astronomical catalog, such as the NGC, you would first need to
> create an observing list with all the NGC objects in it via the Database
> Power Search tool.
>
> Anyhow, by "your observations" I am going to assume you mean your log
> entries.  Log Entries are printed via the Log Browser.  It may be opened
> via the button on the tool bar (second from left).
>
> There are several ways to narrow down the log entries before printing
> them.  For just planetary nebulae you would select the "Class" tab and
> then highlight "Planetary Nebulae."  The planetaries you have logged
> will appear on the right.
>
> Click the Print/Copy button.  Now select what you want to print.  Select
> "Matching log entries in browser object list" to print the planetary
> nebulae (as above).
>
> To print only those log entries for the objects in an observing list
> select "All objects in this observing list" and select the observing
> list group + name of the list.
>
> Select the data you want included and click "Print."
>
> See the Help buttons on both the Log Browser and Print/Copy Observing
> Logs dialogs for additional info.
>
> Clear skies,
> Greg
>
>
> Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Oops.  I should have been more descriptive of what I want to do.  How
>> can I print a list of my observations of objects in a particular catalog?
>>
>> -Bob
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bob,

Ok, now I understand you fully.  I agree that the procedure to print the
logs for an observing club award is too obscure.  I also agree that
having the Print/Copy button associated with the "results" listing isn't
optimal.

Thinking about it... what I should do for ST4 is separate the two
functions, with a general Print/Copy button, and a Print/Copy button for
the results only.

I also want to add a menu selection to the Observing List menu that
allows the user to directly print the log entries associated with the
currently displayed list.

Finally, I agree that the current procedure would make a good topic for
a tutorial and will add it to my list.

I appreciate your feedback!

Thanks,
Greg

Bob Waltenspiel wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Thanks for the detailed response.
>
> Here's my goal: I want a printed list of my observations (log entries)
> for various AL clubs: Messier, Double Star, etc.  I want objects that
> are on the particular list or catalog.  I don't want objects of the same
> type that are not on the AL list.  Several of the lists have a mix of
> object types (Messier, Hershel 400).
>
> After reading your message, I see now what I was missing.  Using the Log
> Browser, I select log entries by criteria.  I haven't yet finished
> narrowing down my list but my next step is to select what I want to do
> with it (print, save, export, etc) then I narrow the list of log entries
> further by selecting the observation list of interest.
>
> Here's how I did it:
>
> 1. Click "Log Book" button to see the "Log Browser" dialog.
>
> 2. Select the "Observer" tab.  Select the observer (only me in this
> case).  Notice the long list of objects in the "Objects with Matching
> Log Entries" list.  It's much longer than I want to print.
>
> 3. Select "Print/Copy" to see the "Print/Copy Observation Logs" dialog.
>
> 4. Select "All objects in this observing list".
>
> 5. Click "Print" or "Copy".
>
> What confused me was that I began my log entry selection using the log
> browser to see a subset of all my entries but not the narrow list I'm
> truly interested in for this print.  My intuition doesn't want to hit
> the "Print" button yet because the list is too long.  It's only after I
> click "Print" (or whatever) that I narrow the list further.  At this
> point I don't get  to see the objects in the list.  The "Objects with
> Matching Log Entries" is not updated (or even visible really) with the
> shorter list of objects.   This is confusing to me and, I'll bet, other
> users.
>
> I think this would be a good candidate for a Flash Demo.  Hearing your
> voice describe the actions as we watch the demo helps to get into the
> frame of mind that you used as you developed the UI of this software.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> -Bob

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

I have uploaded a zip to the files area. This zip contains an observing list
with the alignment stars for the Skyscan device. Its in the files/skyscan
alignment stars folder.

Hi Greg,

I tend to disagree; there are plenty of times when there are collisions in the
primary sort key: Object class, Constellation, and Difficulty come to mind
immediately. As it is, when I sort by, say Object class, the objects within a
Class are presented in random time order, which makes sorting by Object class
fairly useless.

Instead of a full implementation of multi-key sorting, a good middle-ground
would be to have ST3 automatically sort collisions on any primary key by Optimum
Time. That way, if I sort by Object class, objects in each class would be
automatically sorted by optimum time.

Also regarding object exclusion (my second question): I understand the
work-around you offered. However, I hate list proliferation. It seems burdensome
to create list after list just to manipulate the data of some base list.

I want to be able to generate a useful (if large) observing list, and then have
more flexibility in how it's sorted and filtered. The existing filters are
excellent, indispensable even. Sorting, except on Optimum time, is less useful
since all other columns are random.

Additional sorting and filtering options would really make a difference in the
utility of ST3 for me.

("More! More! More!" chanted the crowd ...)

-- Tim

--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> calthos wrote:
> > Is there any way to use multiple sort criteria?
> >
> > For example, I'd like to sort first by object class, then within each
> > class, by optimum time.
> >
> > This is generally possible in things like Excel. In many other
> > Windows programs, you can achieve this by using the <Ctrl> key when
> > clicking the sub-criterion column.
>
> This is something on my long term TODO list.  It hasn't been a priority
> because when I looked into it in detail it turned out that multiple
> sorts would be of limited practical use for the type of data in the
> observing lists.  This is particularly so in the light of the columns
> related to observation planning, which is the focus of the tool.  You
> see, when a multiple sort is used the second sort column is merely a tie
> breaker for the first.  There just aren't that many useful cases where
> ties occur in the primary column.  But don't get me wrong--I am sure
> there are some uses for this feature, and it will likely appear in a
> future version.
>
> > Is there any way to exclude an object class or classes when viewing
> > an observing list?
> >
> > For example, due to frequently poor seeing in my area, I am not
> > typically interested in trying for teensy planetary nebulae. Many
> > observing lists include those objects, and I'd like to filter them
> > out.
>
> You can do the opposite directly from the planner by selecting which
> type of object to display.  But this will only display one type of
> object at a time.  To get rid of your tiny planetaries the simplest
> thing to do would be to delete them.  To do this it's probably best to
> create a new list and copy just the types of object you want to observe.
>   First sort on the object type column.  Check off the types of objects
> you want to observe (via using the block selections--see help) and copy
> them to your new list.  For the remaining planetaries sort on size.
> Copy only those with larger sizes to the new list.
>
> Clear skies,
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Crinklaw
> Astronomical Software Developer
> Cloudcroft, New Mexico
> skyhound.com
>

I have to agree. A similar conversation came up several years ago as I recall. 
Optimum Time would be the logical choice as the tool around which one would have
the ability to sort by class, constellation, mag. etc. I do not think this is a
minor thing to be overlooked. Assuming for the moment that Greg agrees with this
line of thinking, I wonder whether a change in how the sort function works in
the planner can be implemented in an update or whether it would have to be part
of V.4.? Of course this question is directed toward Greg.:-)

Dick

--- On Fri, 11/20/09, calthos <shardik@...> wrote:

> From: calthos <shardik@...>
> Subject: [skytools] Re: Mulitple sort criteria
> To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 7:41 PM
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I tend to disagree; there are plenty of times when there
> are collisions in the primary sort key: Object class,
> Constellation, and Difficulty come to mind immediately. As
> it is, when I sort by, say Object class, the objects within
> a Class are presented in random time order, which makes
> sorting by Object class fairly useless.
>
> Instead of a full implementation of multi-key sorting, a
> good middle-ground would be to have ST3 automatically sort
> collisions on any primary key by Optimum Time. That way, if
> I sort by Object class, objects in each class would be
> automatically sorted by optimum time.
>
> Also regarding object exclusion (my second question): I
> understand the work-around you offered. However, I hate list
> proliferation. It seems burdensome to create list after list
> just to manipulate the data of some base list.
>
> I want to be able to generate a useful (if large) observing
> list, and then have more flexibility in how it's sorted and
> filtered. The existing filters are excellent, indispensable
> even. Sorting, except on Optimum time, is less useful since
> all other columns are random.
>
> Additional sorting and filtering options would really make
> a difference in the utility of ST3 for me.
>
> ("More! More! More!" chanted the crowd ...)
>
> -- Tim
>
> --- In skytools@yahoogroups.com,
> Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > calthos wrote:
> > > Is there any way to use multiple sort criteria?
> > >
> > > For example, I'd like to sort first by object
> class, then within each
> > > class, by optimum time.
> > >
> > > This is generally possible in things like Excel.
> In many other
> > > Windows programs, you can achieve this by using
> the <Ctrl> key when
> > > clicking the sub-criterion column.
> >
> > This is something on my long term TODO list.  It
> hasn't been a priority
> > because when I looked into it in detail it turned out
> that multiple
> > sorts would be of limited practical use for the type
> of data in the
> > observing lists.  This is particularly so in the
> light of the columns
> > related to observation planning, which is the focus of
> the tool.  You
> > see, when a multiple sort is used the second sort
> column is merely a tie
> > breaker for the first.  There just aren't that
> many useful cases where
> > ties occur in the primary column.  But don't get
> me wrong--I am sure
> > there are some uses for this feature, and it will
> likely appear in a
> > future version.
> >
> > > Is there any way to exclude an object class or
> classes when viewing
> > > an observing list?
> > >
> > > For example, due to frequently poor seeing in my
> area, I am not
> > > typically interested in trying for teensy
> planetary nebulae. Many
> > > observing lists include those objects, and I'd
> like to filter them
> > > out.
> >
> > You can do the opposite directly from the planner by
> selecting which
> > type of object to display.  But this will only
> display one type of
> > object at a time.  To get rid of your tiny
> planetaries the simplest
> > thing to do would be to delete them.  To do this
> it's probably best to
> > create a new list and copy just the types of object
> you want to observe.
> >   First sort on the object type
> column.  Check off the types of objects
> > you want to observe (via using the block
> selections--see help) and copy
> > them to your new list.  For the remaining
> planetaries sort on size.
> > Copy only those with larger sizes to the new list.
> >
> > Clear skies,
> > Greg
> >
> > --
> > Greg Crinklaw
> > Astronomical Software Developer
> > Cloudcroft, New Mexico
> > skyhound.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for
> SkyTools support.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     skytools-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Hi Tim,

calthos wrote:
> Instead of a full implementation of multi-key sorting, a good
> middle-ground would be to have ST3 automatically sort collisions on
> any primary key by Optimum Time. That way, if I sort by Object class,
> objects in each class would be automatically sorted by optimum time.

I have never been a fan of the multiple sort column idea for SkyTools
because it is too clunky, but I do see the need for a more powerful
sort.  Your suggestion of using the optimum time is a good one.
There are some other columns that could come into play as well:
timeliness index, user-assigned priority, whether or not the object is
visually detectable, and whether or not the object is at its optimum
difficulty.  In fact these parameters are used for the Optimum Sort
function on the Real Time tab.  I have been considering some sort of
similar function for the Nightly Planner as well, but I wanted it to be
more interactive.  Maybe it could be as simple as what you have
suggested, but to include the other factors as well.  I'll keep thinking
about it.

> Also regarding object exclusion (my second question): I understand
> the work-around you offered. However, I hate list proliferation. It
> seems burdensome to create list after list just to manipulate the
> data of some base list.

> I want to be able to generate a useful (if large) observing list, and
> then have more flexibility in how it's sorted and filtered. The
> existing filters are excellent, indispensable even. Sorting, except
> on Optimum time, is less useful since all other columns are random.

I guess I'm still a little skeptical about this one.  Observing lists
work best when they aren't large.  They are meant to be an already
narrowed down list of objects that you wish to observe.  Otherwise you
end up with just the sort of data overload that you are seeing, and the
program can become slow and unwieldy.  For these reasons it is best to
start with a smaller list of objects that has already been narrowed down
in some way, perhaps by season, object type, relevance for a particular
scope, etc.  I have always seen this as a necessary step toward the
ultimate goal of narrowing the list down to only those objects best
observed on a particular night.  The list filters are merely the final
step in the process.

The extreme would be to use the Database Power Search to create a list
for every galaxy visible in a 24-inch scope... which is something I
would not advise doing. :-)  Or try to put the entire NGC/IC in a single
observing list.  The tools are available to create smaller lists that
are subsets of a larger one.  I believe this to be the most effective
and efficient means of accomplishing the task.  Best of all it is
straight forward to use as I am rue to add more complexity to the interface.

Thanks,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Same problem for NGC 337. SkyTools reports a bad position angle for that galaxy.

Regards,
Julien


--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, "julien.lecomte" <julien.lecomte@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I noticed that the PA for NGC 7218 is incorrectly reported by SkyTools 3. It
shows as NNW-SSE, but the DSS image shows clearly that it is NNE-SSW.
Uranometria shows the correct PA.
>
> Cheers!
> Julien
>

Hi,

It's inevitable that there are going to be some errors in the source
catalogs, particularly in galaxies because there are too many of them to
visually inspect.  I appreciate hearing about any errors that people
find, and as always, I will make a note to fix them in the future.

Thanks,
Greg

julien.lecomte wrote:
> Same problem for NGC 337. SkyTools reports a bad position angle for
> that galaxy.
>
> Regards, Julien
>
>
> --- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, "julien.lecomte"
> <julien.lecomte@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I noticed that the PA for NGC 7218 is incorrectly reported by
>> SkyTools 3. It shows as NNW-SSE, but the DSS image shows clearly
>> that it is NNE-SSW. Uranometria shows the correct PA.
>>
>> Cheers! Julien

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

And this is why I am reporting them. Hopefully, some future version of SkyTools
will incorporate these fixes ;-)

Cheers!
Julien


--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It's inevitable that there are going to be some errors in the source
> catalogs, particularly in galaxies because there are too many of them to
> visually inspect.  I appreciate hearing about any errors that people
> find, and as always, I will make a note to fix them in the future.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
> julien.lecomte wrote:
> > Same problem for NGC 337. SkyTools reports a bad position angle for
> > that galaxy.
> >
> > Regards, Julien
> >
> >
> > --- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, "julien.lecomte"
> > <julien.lecomte@> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I noticed that the PA for NGC 7218 is incorrectly reported by
> >> SkyTools 3. It shows as NNW-SSE, but the DSS image shows clearly
> >> that it is NNE-SSW. Uranometria shows the correct PA.
> >>
> >> Cheers! Julien
>
> --
> Greg Crinklaw
> Astronomical Software Developer
> Cloudcroft, New Mexico
> skyhound.com
>

I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...

"NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not Pisces
as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic cluster
associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."


Peace,
Rod Mollise
Rod's new book:
_Choosing and Using a New CAT_
Available Now!

<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>





-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Crinklaw
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:50 AM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218

Hi,

It's inevitable that there are going to be some errors in the source
catalogs, particularly in galaxies because there are too many of them to
visually inspect.  I appreciate hearing about any errors that people
find, and as always, I will make a note to fix them in the future.

Thanks,
Greg

julien.lecomte wrote:
> Same problem for NGC 337. SkyTools reports a bad position angle for
> that galaxy.
>
> Regards, Julien
>
>
> --- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, "julien.lecomte"
> <julien.lecomte@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I noticed that the PA for NGC 7218 is incorrectly reported by
>> SkyTools 3. It shows as NNW-SSE, but the DSS image shows clearly
>> that it is NNE-SSW. Uranometria shows the correct PA.
>>
>> Cheers! Julien

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com


------------------------------------

Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo!
Groups Links

Rod,
Until Greg has a chance to respond, I just looked up NGC 7023 in Sky Tools 3
and it shows as being in Cepeus. I didn't see any reference to Pisces???
Joe C
-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Rod Mollise
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 3:53 PM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218



I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...

"NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here. It's in Cepheus, not Pisces
as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic cluster
associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."

Peace,
Rod Mollise
Rod's new book:
_Choosing and Using a New CAT_
Available Now!

<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>

-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Crinklaw
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:50 AM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218

Hi,

It's inevitable that there are going to be some errors in the source
catalogs, particularly in galaxies because there are too many of them to
visually inspect. I appreciate hearing about any errors that people
find, and as always, I will make a note to fix them in the future.

Thanks,
Greg

julien.lecomte wrote:
> Same problem for NGC 337. SkyTools reports a bad position angle for
> that galaxy.
>
> Regards, Julien
>
>
> --- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, "julien.lecomte"
> <julien.lecomte@...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I noticed that the PA for NGC 7218 is incorrectly reported by
>> SkyTools 3. It shows as NNW-SSE, but the DSS image shows clearly
>> that it is NNE-SSW. Uranometria shows the correct PA.
>>
>> Cheers! Julien

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

------------------------------------

Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo!
Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Rod,

Rod Mollise wrote:
> I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
> Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...
>
> "NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not Pisces
> as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic cluster
> associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
> cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
> referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."

SkyTools 3 does have NGC 7023 in Cepheus, coincident with the position
given by SIMBAD.  Collinder 427 is nearby.  There is no Collinder 429 in
SkyTools 3...

I think this is outdated information related to SkyTools 2. May I ask
whom you are quoting?

Thanks,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Myself, bro.

I'm lookin' at the Herschel II list right now:

7023...Collinder 429...yadda...yadda...yadda.

This COULD be a list I imported from ST2 (?)...


Peace,
Rod Mollise
Rod's new book:
_Choosing and Using a New CAT_
Available Now!

<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>



-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Crinklaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:49 AM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218

Hi Rod,

Rod Mollise wrote:
> I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
> Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...
>
> "NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not
Pisces
> as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic
cluster
> associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
> cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
> referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."

SkyTools 3 does have NGC 7023 in Cepheus, coincident with the position
given by SIMBAD.  Collinder 427 is nearby.  There is no Collinder 429 in
SkyTools 3...

I think this is outdated information related to SkyTools 2. May I ask
whom you are quoting?

Thanks,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com


------------------------------------

Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo!
Groups Links

Hi Rod,

Yes, that sounds like the old ST2 version of the Herschel II list.  Try
downloading the latest Herschel II available at our web site.  It will
say revised in 2009 in the title.  David Hofland did the work for a
revised version for ST3 in September of this year.  Between the improved
ST3 databases and his clarification efforts this list is much cleaner.

Clear skies,
Greg

Rod Mollise wrote:
> Myself, bro.
>
> I'm lookin' at the Herschel II list right now:
>
> 7023...Collinder 429...yadda...yadda...yadda.
>
> This COULD be a list I imported from ST2 (?)...
>
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Rod's new book:
> _Choosing and Using a New CAT_
> Available Now!
>
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Greg Crinklaw
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218
>
> Hi Rod,
>
> Rod Mollise wrote:
>> I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
>> Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...
>>
>> "NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not
> Pisces
>> as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic
> cluster
>> associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
>> cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
>> referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."
>
> SkyTools 3 does have NGC 7023 in Cepheus, coincident with the position
> given by SIMBAD.  Collinder 427 is nearby.  There is no Collinder 429 in
> SkyTools 3...
>
> I think this is outdated information related to SkyTools 2. May I ask
> whom you are quoting?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>


--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Thanks! Don't know what I'd do if I didn't have you to keep me on the strait
and narrow! As I've told a lot of folks, if I am to have success with my
current goal of observing all the Herschels in a reasonable amount of time,
ST3 will be a large part of the reason for my success.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Crinklaw
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 5:40 PM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218

Hi Rod,

Yes, that sounds like the old ST2 version of the Herschel II list.  Try
downloading the latest Herschel II available at our web site.  It will
say revised in 2009 in the title.  David Hofland did the work for a
revised version for ST3 in September of this year.  Between the improved
ST3 databases and his clarification efforts this list is much cleaner.

Clear skies,
Greg

Rod Mollise wrote:
> Myself, bro.
>
> I'm lookin' at the Herschel II list right now:
>
> 7023...Collinder 429...yadda...yadda...yadda.
>
> This COULD be a list I imported from ST2 (?)...
>
>
> Peace,
> Rod Mollise
> Rod's new book:
> _Choosing and Using a New CAT_
> Available Now!
>
> <http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Greg Crinklaw
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218
>
> Hi Rod,
>
> Rod Mollise wrote:
>> I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
>> Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...
>>
>> "NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not
> Pisces
>> as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic
> cluster
>> associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
>> cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
>> referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."
>
> SkyTools 3 does have NGC 7023 in Cepheus, coincident with the position
> given by SIMBAD.  Collinder 427 is nearby.  There is no Collinder 429 in
> SkyTools 3...
>
> I think this is outdated information related to SkyTools 2. May I ask
> whom you are quoting?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>


--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com


------------------------------------

Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo!
Groups Links

I'm confused. (That IS a confusing area of the sky, tho!)

My IA (in tonight's view at midnite) shows NGC 7023 the nebula up top;
just below & right of that, is NGC 7023 the cluster - aka'd as OCL 235 &
Collinder 429;
& just below & right of that, a 'dashed circle' OCl indicator showing OCL 233 as
the ID. If you ask for the Object Info for OCL 233, it opens as Collinder 427
with OCL 233 as the single listed 'aka'.

Where it gets weird is, I have the DSS image for the entire span of those three
objects....and my observing notes on Cr 427 say:
"OCL?! Blackest sky, empty as any you'll ever see - DSS confirms. Non-Ex??"

Bass ackwards from what Rod is saying, but it's right there plain as day.  Makes
me wonder, were Cr 427 (as OCl 233) & 429 (as N7023) cross-ID'd in ST2?

Oh yes & FWIW - all in Cepheus (ST2).

Clear'ns!
~S*H

<<<>>>

--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rod,
>
> Rod Mollise wrote:
> > I wasn't gonna mention this one, that's turned up in the course of The
> > Herschel Project, since it really is a minor issue, but here 'tis...
> >
> > "NGC 7023 Something's not be quite right here.  It's in Cepheus, not Pisces
> > as SkyTools has it--it's the Iris Nebula, which does have a galactic cluster
> > associated with it, Collinder 427, a loose group of stars involved in the
> > cool reflection nebulosity. To further confuse matters, the Collinder 429
> > referred to by the program is apparently nonexistent."
>
> SkyTools 3 does have NGC 7023 in Cepheus, coincident with the position
> given by SIMBAD.  Collinder 427 is nearby.  There is no Collinder 429 in
> SkyTools 3...
>
> I think this is outdated information related to SkyTools 2. May I ask
> whom you are quoting?
>
> Thanks,
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Crinklaw
> Astronomical Software Developer
> Cloudcroft, New Mexico
> skyhound.com
>

Hi,

starhopper44 wrote:
> Bass ackwards from what Rod is saying, but it's right there plain as
> day.  Makes me wonder, were Cr 427 (as OCl 233) & 429 (as N7023)
> cross-ID'd in ST2?

Apparently.  I hope you will forgive me if I don't spend a couple of
hours tracking down the ST2 database errors though... other than being
an example of how much time and effort I put into improving the
databases for ST3, I don't see that it really matters all that much.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Oh, NO sir....din't mean that at all! I was asking basically was this something
you or members might've already known about. And so I could make corrective
entries where appropriate - if so.

It also, I guess, in a way demonstrates my faith in you & SkyTools as a positive
source for astro-information. I realize there are errors....but how do you
confirm them (& what's right), without asking? I count on your vast knowledge,
especially your intimacy with the 'guts' of things Skytools - including the
database within.

But it does bring up a point that's crossed my mind several times. I'd like to
see a ?feature? wherein users could correct (database) errors once discovered. I
know the DBEditor is always there....but that doesn't remove the 'bad' info.
Case in point here...eg, a means to change that PA on those galaxies.

Clear'ns!
~S*H
\\\\\\\\\\\\

--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> starhopper44 wrote:
> > Bass ackwards from what Rod is saying, but it's right there plain as
> > day.  Makes me wonder, were Cr 427 (as OCl 233) & 429 (as N7023)
> > cross-ID'd in ST2?
>
> Apparently.  I hope you will forgive me if I don't spend a couple of
> hours tracking down the ST2 database errors though... other than being
> an example of how much time and effort I put into improving the
> databases for ST3, I don't see that it really matters all that much.
>
> Clear skies,
> Greg
>
> --
> Greg Crinklaw
> Astronomical Software Developer
> Cloudcroft, New Mexico
> skyhound.com
>

Hi,

starhopper44 wrote:
> But it does bring up a point that's crossed my mind several times.
> I'd like to see a ?feature? wherein users could correct (database)
> errors once discovered. I know the DBEditor is always there....but
> that doesn't remove the 'bad' info. Case in point here...eg, a means
> to change that PA on those galaxies.

I think you have asked this before.  I am sorry to say that allowing
users to edit the databases would lead to a logistical nightmare.

Imagine two different users of SkyTools that have different data for the
same object.  This would lead to all manner of confusion, from
discussions on various forums to the sharing of observing lists among users.

And this idea that there is a "right" and "wrong" only applies to a few
things, such as the PA, magnitude, or the size of an object.  Positions
and designations are really more in the realm of opinion (or whichever
handbook you cut your teeth on).  Yet it is in theses two sensitive
areas where the desire to edit the data is the greatest.  And from a
practical point of view, any changes made to a designation would require
a nightmare of coding to rewrite the associated databases used to look
up objects by their designation.

And what happens when I update the data via an update?  It would be a
nightmare if people stopped updating the program because they feared the
hard work they put into changing their databases might be lost.  It is
not in anyone's best interest to have buggy versions of SkyTools running
around.

There are some things I can be talked into, but I am sorry to say that
this isn't one of them.  There are too many practical reasons against it.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

Amen. Most of these mistakes are minor and not at all puzzling.


Peace,
Rod Mollise
Rod's new book:
_Choosing and Using a New CAT_
Available Now!

<http://skywatch.brainiac.com/astroland>



-----Original Message-----
From: skytools@yahoogroups.com [mailto:skytools@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Greg Crinklaw
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:39 AM
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [skytools] Re: Bad PA for NGC 7218

Hi,


I think you have asked this before.  I am sorry to say that allowing
users to edit the databases would lead to a logistical nightmare.

--- In skytools@yahoogroups.com, Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I think you have asked this before.  ...

Hi Greg;
Your memory's prolly better'n mine....but I sure don't remember it! *LOL*
I see where you're comin' from, so no problem.
As long as we know you're also 'straightening them out' in the patches & updates
- that works for me! Most authors wouldn't even care.

Hope you're having a great Thanksgiving....& all the other Groupsters as well.
Clear'ns!
~S*H
________________________________________________________________
"Perhaps I'll never touch a star, but at least let me reach."

Hi Greg,

Here are some comments and questions.
1. When when I click on Search in the Log Browser I would simply like to type in
the name of the object and have a result. As it currently stands one has to
select by -from Help- "object class, observer, location, instrument and
constellation selections by clicking on each item you wish to include". 
Although this is a very useful way of sorting, it is also time consuming if all
you want to do is find out whether of not you have already logged a particular
object - or you simply want to pull it up from the list of all objects that have
been logged. I believe a global search irrespective of all these critiria would
be a useful addition to the search function.
2. Syncing from ST2 to v.3 worked flawlessly and brought over among other things
all of my logs including of course the locations. One location,'Chiefland' has
several thousand entries (from v.2). One day, I absentmindedly created another
location in v.3 similar to 'Chiefland' titled 'Chiefland, Florida'. Dumb move, I
admit and it did have consequences. I began submitting entries into the location
listed as 'Chiefland, Florida' - several hundred during and after a recent trip.
So now I have a problem of sorts. I have entries pinned to the same location
with slight variations in name. There does not seem to be a way of globally
transferring all of the entries over to another location. Nor does there seem to
be a way of deleting a particular location from the list. The only solution at
present appears to be one in which each object (one by one) is viewed in the Log
Browser>Location is selected>Select New is selected>and from the pull down list
another location is selected. This action removes the object from one list and
moves it to the new list. The problem with this approach is that the process is
arduous. You can't highlight the entire list and change the location in one
shot. Would it be possible to include this capability in a future update or-
3. In the Data Mgr.>Observing Lists, one has the capability of editing,
deleting, creating, and moving lists. This is one of the great features of v.3
IMO. If this is not already on the agenda, would you consider adding to the Data
Mgr. the ability for manipulating logs - treating them in the 'same way' as
observing lists?
4. On June 19, I pinged you off-list about the 'bug' in the Observing Condition
Presets. You acknowledged at the time that there was a problem. I'm sure that is
on your list but since the topic of this thread is the log browser, I thought
I'd bring it up one more time.

Thanks,
Dick

Hi Dick,

You are using a chainsaw to cut a twig. :-)  The search function of the
log browser is designed to filter your logs based on a wide variety of
parameters.  As an example, you could list all log entries for a given
location or telescope (or both).  You can even search multiple
locations, which might help you out with your issue with a single
location with two different names...

But if you want to find out anything relating to just a single object,
you don't need a specific tool such as the Log Browser.  Just get to the
Object Information window for the object you are interested in.  Every
type of data associated with that object is accessible from this window.
   This makes the Object Info a sort of hub.  The quickest way to open
the Object Information window will depend on what part of the program
you are using, but from the main planning window you may open the
Designation Search, type in the designation, and click the Object
Information Button.  From there a small green "Log" icon will appear in
the window if the object has a log entry.  Click on the icon too see the
entries (or use the Action Menu).

There are always ways to get to the Object Information window whenever
an object appears in SkyTools, usually via a right click.  That includes
charts, events, etc.  And of course log entries can similarly be brought
up by clicking on the "Log" icon in an observing list.  This approach is
one of the essential design elements of the program.

As for edition log entries globally, that is a feature that will appear
in a future version.  And yes, I keep a list of all reported bugs.

Clear skies,
Greg
Dick wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Here are some comments and questions.
> 1. When when I click on Search in the Log Browser I would simply like to type
in the name of the object and have a result. As it currently stands one has to
select by -from Help- "object class, observer, location, instrument and
constellation selections by clicking on each item you wish to include". 
Although this is a very useful way of sorting, it is also time consuming if all
you want to do is find out whether of not you have already logged a particular
object - or you simply want to pull it up from the list of all objects that have
been logged. I believe a global search irrespective of all these critiria would
be a useful addition to the search function.
> 2. Syncing from ST2 to v.3 worked flawlessly and brought over among other
things all of my logs including of course the locations. One
location,'Chiefland' has several thousand entries (from v.2). One day, I
absentmindedly created another location in v.3 similar to 'Chiefland' titled
'Chiefland, Florida'. Dumb move, I admit and it did have consequences. I began
submitting entries into the location listed as 'Chiefland, Florida' - several
hundred during and after a recent trip. So now I have a problem of sorts. I have
entries pinned to the same location with slight variations in name. There does
not seem to be a way of globally transferring all of the entries over to another
location. Nor does there seem to be a way of deleting a particular location from
the list. The only solution at present appears to be one in which each object
(one by one) is viewed in the Log Browser>Location is selected>Select New is
selected>and from the pull down list another location is selected. T
his action removes the object from one list and moves it to the new list. The
problem with this approach is that the process is arduous. You can't highlight
the entire list and change the location in one shot. Would it be possible to
include this capability in a future update or-
> 3. In the Data Mgr.>Observing Lists, one has the capability of editing,
deleting, creating, and moving lists. This is one of the great features of v.3
IMO. If this is not already on the agenda, would you consider adding to the Data
Mgr. the ability for manipulating logs - treating them in the 'same way' as
observing lists?
> 4. On June 19, I pinged you off-list about the 'bug' in the Observing
Condition Presets. You acknowledged at the time that there was a problem. I'm
sure that is on your list but since the topic of this thread is the log browser,
I thought I'd bring it up one more time.
>
> Thanks,
> Dick

Sorry Greg,

That was not my intent. I know how to use the Object Information window and I
like the fact that now there is a nifty Log icon up in the top part of the
window. That is certainly one way of accessing the object. I appreciate your
explanation about how the log browser is designed to work although I believe
that I had already grasped the nuances of how it works via filters. I would
still argue that a global search that disregards the filters would be handy
particularly say if I am looking at a list - either one of my own or a list not
of my own and I want to check if I have already seen/logged the object. Since
I'm already in the Log Browser...why not have the option of typing in the name
of the object like one does using the Designation Search Tool then click Search?
Anyway, it is helpful that you listen to this feedback whether or not you decide
to accept it.

Regards,
Dick



----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...>
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 26, 2009 1:58:02 PM
Subject: Re: [skytools] Log Browser

Hi Dick,

You are using a chainsaw to cut a twig. :-)  The search function of the
log browser is designed to filter your logs based on a wide variety of
parameters.  As an example, you could list all log entries for a given
location or telescope (or both).  You can even search multiple
locations, which might help you out with your issue with a single
location with two different names...

But if you want to find out anything relating to just a single object,
you don't need a specific tool such as the Log Browser.  Just get to the
Object Information window for the object you are interested in.  Every
type of data associated with that object is accessible from this window.
   This makes the Object Info a sort of hub.  The quickest way to open
the Object Information window will depend on what part of the program
you are using, but from the main planning window you may open the
Designation Search, type in the designation, and click the Object
Information Button.  From there a small green "Log" icon will appear in
the window if the object has a log entry.  Click on the icon too see the
entries (or use the Action Menu).

There are always ways to get to the Object Information window whenever
an object appears in SkyTools, usually via a right click.  That includes
charts, events, etc.  And of course log entries can similarly be brought
up by clicking on the "Log" icon in an observing list.  This approach is
one of the essential design elements of the program.

As for edition log entries globally, that is a feature that will appear
in a future version.  And yes, I keep a list of all reported bugs.

Clear skies,
Greg
Dick wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> Here are some comments and questions.
> 1. When when I click on Search in the Log Browser I would simply like to type
in the name of the object and have a result. As it currently stands one has to
select by -from Help- "object class, observer, location, instrument and
constellation selections by clicking on each item you wish to include". 
Although this is a very useful way of sorting, it is also time consuming if all
you want to do is find out whether of not you have already logged a particular
object - or you simply want to pull it up from the list of all objects that have
been logged. I believe a global search irrespective of all these critiria would
be a useful addition to the search function.
> 2. Syncing from ST2 to v.3 worked flawlessly and brought over among other
things all of my logs including of course the locations. One
location,'Chiefland' has several thousand entries (from v.2). One day, I
absentmindedly created another location in v.3 similar to 'Chiefland' titled
'Chiefland, Florida'. Dumb move, I admit and it did have consequences. I began
submitting entries into the location listed as 'Chiefland, Florida' - several
hundred during and after a recent trip. So now I have a problem of sorts. I have
entries pinned to the same location with slight variations in name. There does
not seem to be a way of globally transferring all of the entries over to another
location. Nor does there seem to be a way of deleting a particular location from
the list. The only solution at present appears to be one in which each object
(one by one) is viewed in the Log Browser>Location is selected>Select New is
selected>and from the pull down list another
  location is selected. T
his action removes the object from one list and moves it to the new list. The
problem with this approach is that the process is arduous. You can't highlight
the entire list and change the location in one shot. Would it be possible to
include this capability in a future update or-
> 3. In the Data Mgr.>Observing Lists, one has the capability of editing,
deleting, creating, and moving lists. This is one of the great features of v.3
IMO. If this is not already on the agenda, would you consider adding to the Data
Mgr. the ability for manipulating logs - treating them in the 'same way' as
observing lists?
> 4. On June 19, I pinged you off-list about the 'bug' in the Observing
Condition Presets. You acknowledged at the time that there was a problem. I'm
sure that is on your list but since the topic of this thread is the log browser,
I thought I'd bring it up one more time.
>
> Thanks,
> Dick




------------------------------------

Visit http://www.skyhound.com/support.html for SkyTools support.Yahoo! Groups
Links

Hi Dick,

Richard Carner wrote:
> Sorry Greg,
>
> That was not my intent. I know how to use the Object Information
> window and I like the fact that now there is a nifty Log icon up in
> the top part of the window. That is certainly one way of accessing
> the object. I appreciate your explanation about how the log browser
> is designed to work although I believe that I had already grasped the
> nuances of how it works via filters. I would still argue that a
> global search that disregards the filters would be handy particularly
> say if I am looking at a list - either one of my own or a list not of
> my own and I want to check if I have already seen/logged the object.

Please forgive me, but I don't understand.  What list are you talking
about?  It can't be your observing list because opening log entries is
obvious, and you go on to talk about the Log Browser...  But I don't see
how the results list in the Log Browser relates to a "search that
disregards the filters."

> Since I'm already in the Log Browser...why not have the option of
> typing in the name of the object like one does using the Designation
> Search Tool then click Search?

This I think I understand.  Sure, I could add the ability to look up
objects by their designation (as a separate tab).  But this would
duplicate what is already available via the Designation Search.  The Log
Browser is not a blocking Popup--in other words you are free to click on
the Designation Search button on the Planner behind it even when the Log
Browser is displayed.

The only advantage I can see to having a tab that works like the
Designation Search is that the search would be limited to objects with
log entries only.  It would have to be a tab, by the way, to be
consistent (the results list would be sort of "hijacked" otherwise).
The disadvantage to having a Tab that worked like a Designation Search
would be that you would still have to switch tabs, which negates the
"already in the log browser" argument to some extent.  That--and this is
my biggest concern--I fear that newbies might think that this is the
only way to look up log entries for objects.  I'd hate to read a review
that said that looking up log entries was tedious because you have to
open the Log Browser every time first... Remember, my thinking is that
you don't need to have the Log Browser open at all to look up an objects
and its log entries.  So the case when the browser is open, is a
special, and somewhat rare one.

I'll think about it though.  If I can come up with a twist that would
make such a "Designation Search" tab clearly advantageous that would
make it worthwhile.

Clear skies,
Greg

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico
skyhound.com

----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Crinklaw <crinklaw@...>
To: skytools@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 26, 2009 6:38:59 PM
Subject: Re: [skytools] Log Browser

Hi Dick,

Snip..> I would still argue that a
> global search that disregards the filters would be handy particularly
> say if I am looking at a list - either one of my own or a list not of
> my own and I want to check if I have already seen/logged the object.

What list are you talking
about?  It can't be your observing list because opening log entries is
obvious, and you go on to talk about the Log Browser...  But I don't see
how the results list in the Log Browser relates to a "search that
disregards the filters."

Hi Greg,

Please forgive me as well.. I meant an ad hoc list: say one scribbled out on a
dew soaked piece of paper that may or may not contain comments, or an object
that pops in an article adjacent to my keyboard (I'm a multitasking fool) while
I am making entries or I have the Log Browser window open.

> Since I'm already in the Log Browser...why not have the option of
> typing in the name of the object like one does using the Designation
> Search Tool then click Search?

This I think I understand.  Sure, I could add the ability to look up
objects by their designation (as a separate tab).  But this would
duplicate what is already available via the Designation Search.  The Log
Browser is not a blocking Popup--in other words you are free to click on
the Designation Search button on the Planner behind it even when the Log
Browser is displayed.

Understood as per my previous comments.

The only advantage I can see to having a tab that works like the
Designation Search is that the search would be limited to objects with
log entries only.

It would be a limited search. That is what I'm interested in.

It would have to be a tab, by the way, to be
consistent (the results list would be sort of "hijacked" otherwise).
The disadvantage to having a Tab that worked like a Designation Search
would be that you would still have to switch tabs, which negates the
"already in the log browser" argument to some extent.  That--and this is
my biggest concern--I fear that newbies might think that this is the
only way to look up log entries for objects.  I'd hate to read a review
that said that looking up log entries was tedious because you have to
open the Log Browser every time first... Remember, my thinking is that
you don't need to have the Log Browser open at all to look up an objects
and its log entries.  So the case when the browser is open, is a
special, and somewhat rare one.

Greg, A well know telescope maker once told me that he is pretty sure that half
of his telescopes only see photons once or twice before they are stored away
somewhere before finally going up for sale on Astromart or some such. This
analogy may flop on its face - I'm only on my first cup of coffee! Hopefully
some of the 'newbies' who have acquired ST will end up becoming quite proficient
navigating through this complex (not complicated) and rich program. If your
thinking is that you might get a bad review because looking up log entries meant
having to open up the Log Browser first (certainly not what I envisioned in my
comments) then by all means let's quit this discussion.

I'll think about it though.  If I can come up with a twist that would
make such a "Designation Search" tab clearly advantageous that would
make it worthwhile.

That's good enough for me.

Regards,
Dick