... point A is a world that is suffering ... largely free of them. But *who* is suffering from XML's complexities. The developers of processors? Sure but they...
James Tauber
jtauber@...
Dec 1, 1999 8:20 am
23
... Hi James, Would you please define the "XML Infoset" or provide a URL for us Simpletons who are still coming up to steam. TIA, Bob La Quey...
Robert La Quey
robertl1@...
Dec 1, 1999 8:40 am
24
Joe, I like your pragmatic approach, glad to see you signed up on this list. I'll comment on your attributes seperately. ;) Robert, I've long held the belief...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 9:42 am
25
... James, I'm convinced that attributes are broken in XML. And, the last time I looked, InfoSet seems to have inherited this brokenness. ... I think that...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 9:54 am
26
... The XML Infoset[1] is a formal description of the set of information that an XML processor passes to an application as a result of parsing an XML document....
James Tauber
jtauber@...
Dec 1, 1999 10:36 am
27
... Yes. Our discussions on the other list clearly showed this fault line. Further, our discussion has shown that attributes are indeed broken in XML. ... I...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 10:43 am
28
... Well, admittedly, the InfoSet is pretty much determined by the reporting requirements on XML processors. Regarding the brokenness of attributes, I still...
James Tauber
jtauber@...
Dec 1, 1999 10:43 am
29
I think the following issues should be decided before we go into debate about specific SML features (such as attributes, name spaces, etc.). I1 - Are all valid...
Oren Ben-Kiki
oren@...
Dec 1, 1999 11:38 am
30
... The answer is a function of time, it ranges from 'yes' to 'no' on all three points -- especially as XML continues to grow. ... It will catch on if it meets...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 11:49 am
31
As contribution to our group, rather than spurting out answers, let me express how I think. This will give us a pattern language with which we can better...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 12:37 pm
32
... OK, let's talk specifically about SML 1.0 then :-) ... I thought of SML 1.0 as the "simple core" you refer to. ... Well, I was thinking about a bit more...
Oren Ben-Kiki
oren@...
Dec 1, 1999 12:51 pm
33
IMHO, what ever standard SML has, it must be invariant under the identity operation. Thus, emitter(parser(x)) = x So, this means quite a bit to attributes: If...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 12:53 pm
34
Hi all, Thought I'd come and lurk here and see what was happening... ... the ... attributes ... S-expressions. ... I agree here - it would be nice to know that...
Leigh Dodds
ldodds@...
Dec 1, 1999 1:06 pm
35
... I don't think we need I4. I'm much less concerned about code-reuseability than data-reuseability. What I have in mind for a processor is completely...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 1:13 pm
36
... Document vs Document Fragment stuff is awful. I've never liked the distinction. *ML is recursive, so I feel uneasy about trying to distinguish between...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:00 pm
37
... This is a consequence of (I3). If the SML APIs are a subset of the XML APIs, you can trivially use an XML library/parser/etc. ... recreated/revised ... ...
Oren Ben-Kiki
oren@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:08 pm
38
... Both of these are key items. Like relational databases, I think these are best done at a higher level since the solution to both of these questions depend...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:18 pm
39
... SML ... results. ... as ... Hmmm. I didn't think of I4 as code reusability; my motivation was that I could send an SML file to anyone - whether he's using...
Oren Ben-Kiki
oren@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:19 pm
40
... Assuming you agree that SML should be a subset of XML, the issue is (from an adoption standpoint) how significant a subset it should be in order to merit...
Brad Clawsie
brad@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:21 pm
41
... Yes, I do agree that SML 1.0 should be a strict subset. ... I want something simple to build upon. What I make may compete with XML to a degree, and might...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 2:47 pm
42
... This is almost exactly what happened with SGML... XML is *really* the SGML subset (with a few extra touches) that the SGML community used for...
Gavin Thomas Nicol
gtn@...
Dec 1, 1999 3:18 pm
43
... not a ... disaster. I happen to agree strongly. ... You can always do that. Personally, I think a lot of the power of XSL could be accomplished with a...
Gavin Thomas Nicol
gtn@...
Dec 1, 1999 3:21 pm
44
Sorry about going off topic, I'll try to clear it up before I get into problems... ;) ... If the schema design stuck to SML (the strict subset) then there will...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 3:22 pm
45
... Note also that SML is something for the short term (weeks to months) while YML is a long term (years). SML is "All the XML you really need." YML is "What...
Robert La Quey
robertl1@...
Dec 1, 1999 3:54 pm
46
... I don't agree. If I want a simpler API and that falls out of SML then why not use it? A lot of the comments on XML-DEV (mine included) saw API...
Leigh Dodds
ldodds@...
Dec 1, 1999 4:12 pm
47
... Just trim SAX. It's almost there, eliminate the attributes and processing instructions and you are very close. Although there is one addition that I'd...
Clark C. Evans
clark.evans@...
Dec 1, 1999 4:34 pm
48
... DOM would be more interesting - but my point was you ought to be able to demonstrate the SML 'simplicity' by trimming the APIs. If SAX can be trimmed...
Leigh Dodds
ldodds@...
Dec 1, 1999 5:40 pm
49
James, thanks for joining us and for taking us credibly. Looking forward to you contributions... ... webMethods builds many little targeted technologies on...
Joe Lapp
jlapp@...
Dec 1, 1999 7:51 pm
50
... Sorry, that was a little hasty -- too little sleep, and I whipped it up as I was being dragged away to interview someone. My apologies. I'm very happy...
Joe Lapp
jlapp@...
Dec 1, 1999 10:02 pm
51
... By "valid" do you mean "wellformed" or are you asking a bigger question? ... Very good questions, and the answers should color our approach. In fact, I'd...
Having problems with message search?
Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.
