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Re: Announce: A Busy Developer's Guide to SOAP 1.1   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #480 of 10820 |
Re: Announce: A Busy Developer's Guide to SOAP 1.1

Andrew, I'm cc'ing this to the soapbuilders list because I promised I'd work
in the open.

Since our first talks about interop last month, we've made a lot of progress
working with other developers. We've learned a lot about what others have
been doing and have changed our implementation accordingly.

Yesterday we released the Busy Developer's Guide [1], which represents the
subset of SOAP that we are supporting in Frontier and Radio UserLand, and we
believe it is an excellent base for interop for many other developers.

I am writing now to ask for Microsoft's support. This is the format we can
support now. I feel if Microsoft wants to interop with a large number of
independent implementations this is the best we have, and it will work well,
based on our experience with XML-RPC.

We plan to freeze the spec tomorrow at 9AM and to have a compatible
validator running at validator.soapware.org at the same time.

I hope you say yes, and then we can get busy validating apps, and get ready
for a big party to celebrate interop in SOAP-land.

Best wishes,

Dave Winer
UserLand

[1] http://www.xmlrpc.com/aBusyDevelopersGuideToSoap11




Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:33 pm

dave@...
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Message #480 of 10820 |
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Thanks, Simon -- this is very helpful. I think the safest thing for the sake of interop, is to stick with xmlns:xsd='http://www.w3.org/1999/XMLSchema', and...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 29, 2001
9:14 pm

Andrew, I'm cc'ing this to the soapbuilders list because I promised I'd work in the open. Since our first talks about interop last month, we've made a lot of...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 29, 2001
11:34 pm

The spec you are proposing does not address internationalization issues. This is not a viable basis for real interoperability. I know we here at Allegis will...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 29, 2001
11:44 pm

Cool, I've been spending most of the day thinking about this issue. Today is the day for pushing back. If we don't have a solution, then tomorrow will be a...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 29, 2001
11:54 pm

... I think it's pretty easy to do, at least with Expat. Expat converts everything to UTF-8. You process the message, and return a response in UTF-8. I...
David Crowley
dcrowley@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:17 am

Hello, This will work only if the environment can handle the UTF-8 encoded output in the first place. UTF-8 is a multibyte encoding... many 16 bit input...
Bob Cunnings
cunnings@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:41 am

The list of changes Dave is referring to is here: http://www.xmlrpc.com/stories/storyReader$1489 As he said, I'll be maintaining it through the night. -Jake on...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:52 am

Hmm... I didn't realize soap-BDG also subsetted XML. It now becomes much less interesting, and much more reminiscent of "first out, claims the standard"...
Rich Salz
rsalz@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:09 am

Ouch. Dave ... From: "Rich Salz" <rsalz@...> To: <soapbuilders@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [soapbuilders] Re:...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:11 am

Aha! This community thing is starting to work. Thank you. I just learned something important. We don;'t use expat, we have our own parser. I'm going to check...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:19 am

Thanks for responding. Really, our key requirement is that we need to be able to support any Unicode text. We can be flexible on the particular encoding used....
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:20 am

Michael, Here's a starting place for a change to the Busy Developers Guide to address the character encoding issue: The Content-Type HTTP request header has...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:16 am

... It looks good, but it's a lot of detail. Can it be simplified? How many people would be adverse to simply choosing UTF-8 for interop? Here are some...
Eric Kidd
eric.kidd@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:38 am

Michael, Did you see this message? How do you feel about this idea? Using UTF-8 would certainly make life simpler. ;-> -Jake...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
2:16 am

By the way, for those using C/C++ for implementations, if you need a library that can handle character encoding issues and which is not tied to a particular...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:25 am

Michael, thanks so much for the thoughtful response. We figured it out on our end and we'll have, as you say a "documented limitation" and customers who need...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:31 am

... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that a conformant XML parser must support UTF-8 and UTF-16 at a minimum. For interop we might say we only...
David Crowley
dcrowley@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:04 am

Thanks Bob, yes, it's trouble, but it's UserLand's trouble, not SOAP's trouble. Jake is going to post some proposed language for the BDG, please push back to...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 30, 2001
12:50 am

I should be able to help out with a paragraph on that. The timing is a bit bad, for me. We are right in the heat of preparing a major new release of our...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:07 am

Yes, that's true. The XML 1.0 spec mandates that conformant processors support UTF-8 and UTF-16. Any other encodings are optional. Also, UTF-8 is encouraged as...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:18 am

(I'm conducting an experiment, here. I want to find out whether we can settle on UTF-8 for interop, or if there's some reason that won't work. I'm going to...
Eric Kidd
eric.kidd@...
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Mar 30, 2001
3:29 am

Hi, Michael! ... I believe they do. SOAP::Lite uses XML::Parser which supports iso-8851-1, latin1, utf-8, utf-16 and some others. I'm using utf-8 by default,...
Paul Kulchenko
paulclinger@...
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Mar 30, 2001
4:07 am

Re: [soapbuilders] Re: Announce: A Busy Developer's Guide to SOAP 1.1Is it really necessary to say all that? Seems like a lot of words.. (Reminds me of a scene...
Dave Winer
dave@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:19 am

Point taken. Also, if I recall correctly, the King of France slept through the symphony. ;-> How's this?: The Content-Type HTTP request header has four...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:33 am

... Why not return a SOAP:Fault in UTF-8? I know for interop we're just focusing on HTTP, but for SOAP in general we shouldn't assume an HTTP transport. The...
David Crowley
dcrowley@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:57 am

... Good point. That makes sense. -Jake...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
2:00 am

This sounds pretty good to me. I'd like to see UTF-8 strongly recommended as the default encoding, although allowing implementations that cannot use that ...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
1:38 am

I have no problem with changing the assumed encoding to US-ASCII from ISO-8859-1. I agree that clients should include an Accept-Charset header if they don't ...
Jake Savin
jake@...
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Mar 30, 2001
2:00 am

I don't have a problem with that. ... From: David Crowley [mailto:dcrowley@...] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:58 PM To:...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
2:04 am

No, if the Accept-Charset header is present, then the server must honor it. The server may return UTF-8 only if it is listed as an accepted encoding, or if the...
Michael Brennan
michael_brennan@...
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Mar 30, 2001
2:06 am
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