Have posted a few more photos in the "Backforest" album - some of my
colourful lambs enjoying a spot of sunshine.....

I too had a very tiny Soay ewe lamb born this year.  Never seen one so
scrawny.  I was a bit concerned but figured I'd let nature take her  course. 
Then
the lamb looked to have an eye infection the next day so I  started wiping the
eye with warm cloth to clean it and putting a mineral oil eye  lubricant in
there because I wasn't exactly sure what the cause of  the irritant was.  Three
days later I could see the bit of grass hey  in her eye and I pulled that out
and she's fine now.  Still frail looking  but I see her nursing from her very
attentive mama and she's making it just fine  as far as I can see.

BTW, I've neutered the two ram lambs born this spring and butchered all my
adult rams and I've decided to give the ewes one or two years off.  My  freezer
is full of lamb and ram chunks and bones for my dogs. I will buy a  new ram
in a couple of years.  Is there any reason this should be a  problem for my
ewes.  I was going to shave them down, dip them, worm the  heck outta them and
work on my little pasture problems in the time off.   Yeh, time off for THEM!
HA!

Cheri "Fun"
Fellinger
Laugh till you pee a  little.

Please visit my sites:
Dogs: _Kawako Shiba Inu_ (http://hometown.aol.com/wampakuinu/kawako.html)
Rescue: _Welcome to  NWPPInc_ (http://hometown.aol.com/kobura/NWPPInc.html)
Art: _ArtfulPaws:CafePress.com_ (http://www.cafepress.com/artfulpaws)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Dr Weese, that is very helpful info- i had checked numerous
books and all the suggestions seemed SO HIGH.  I had weighed her on the
bathroom scale and it barely moved - so I borrowed a postal scale and she
weighs 1 pound 1 ounce.  Thanks again, lets hope she makes it!  VA in SC

> Lambs need to be fed 10-20% of their body weight daily (for young
> lambs, that should be divided into 4 feedings). The higher end of the
> scale should be considered for very small lambs (such as yours) and/
> or when it is cold. For a 1 lb (454 g) lamb, that would be 45-90 mls
> per day. If possible, it would be good to weigh the lamb to se what
> it actually weighs. IF you end of hand feeding, periodic weighing is
> also a good way to monitor how it is doing. However, if the lamb
> appears strong, the ewe has milk and the lamb appears to be nursing,
> I would not be too aggressive at bottle feeding. A thin but strong
> lamb that is nursing is not necessarily a problem.  If you start hand
> feeding, you may end up with a bottle-dependent lamb, which can be a
> lot of work.
>
> Scott
>
> J Scott Weese DVM DVSc DipACVIM
> Ontario Veterinary College
> University of Guelph
> Guelph, Ontario
>

Thank you Dr Weese, that is very helpful info- i had checked numerous
books and all the suggestions seemed SO HIGH.  I had weighed her on the
bathroom scale and it barely moved - so I borrowed a postal scale and she
weighs 1 pound 1 ounce.  Thanks again, lets hope she makes it!  VA in SC

> Lambs need to be fed 10-20% of their body weight daily (for young
> lambs, that should be divided into 4 feedings). The higher end of the
> scale should be considered for very small lambs (such as yours) and/
> or when it is cold. For a 1 lb (454 g) lamb, that would be 45-90 mls
> per day. If possible, it would be good to weigh the lamb to se what
> it actually weighs. IF you end of hand feeding, periodic weighing is
> also a good way to monitor how it is doing. However, if the lamb
> appears strong, the ewe has milk and the lamb appears to be nursing,
> I would not be too aggressive at bottle feeding. A thin but strong
> lamb that is nursing is not necessarily a problem.  If you start hand
> feeding, you may end up with a bottle-dependent lamb, which can be a
> lot of work.
>
> Scott
>
> J Scott Weese DVM DVSc DipACVIM
> Ontario Veterinary College
> University of Guelph
> Guelph, Ontario
>

Lambs need to be fed 10-20% of their body weight daily (for young
lambs, that should be divided into 4 feedings). The higher end of the
scale should be considered for very small lambs (such as yours) and/
or when it is cold. For a 1 lb (454 g) lamb, that would be 45-90 mls
per day. If possible, it would be good to weigh the lamb to se what
it actually weighs. IF you end of hand feeding, periodic weighing is
also a good way to monitor how it is doing. However, if the lamb
appears strong, the ewe has milk and the lamb appears to be nursing,
I would not be too aggressive at bottle feeding. A thin but strong
lamb that is nursing is not necessarily a problem.  If you start hand
feeding, you may end up with a bottle-dependent lamb, which can be a
lot of work.

Scott

J Scott Weese DVM DVSc DipACVIM
Ontario Veterinary College
University of Guelph
Guelph, Ontario

http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all, I have a 1 pound soay lamb born yesterday - mom is very skittish
but generally attentive to the baby.  It is usually looking thin and
hungry.  I milked out mom to bottle feed the lamb, but god grief! one
pound is TINY!!  How much would you feed such a tiny lamb if she becomes a
bottle baby?  VA in SC who has only 3 finals left then its SUMMER!!!

I am interested in the photos but don't find them in the photos album. What
am I missing?
Gevan Marrs
Woodland Creek Farm


In a message dated 4/28/2008 11:32:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
burstye@... writes:




Hello Julie & anybody else interested

I will try & attach  some not v good pics of the black ram lamb - bear with
me!!
He is jet black  with a tiny white mark central on his forehead and a small
evenly marked white  backside.
Sire S10158 Gaerllwyd Magnus
Dam S11229 Burstye W209
Dam's  sire S9188 Burstye Leander

Please let me know if any of you get them  OK!!

Ann Knowles

PS told you I wasn't v good at it - gather they  will all go to you
separately!!

----- Original Message -----
From:  Julie Suffolk
To: _soaysheep@yahoogrousoaysh_ (mailto:soaysheep@yahoogroups.com)
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: [soaysheep] Re: Black  and White Soay

--- In _soaysheep@yahoogrousoaysh_ (mailto:soaysheep@yahoogroups.com) ,
marrstree@..,  ma
>
> Oh yes - If the dam, sire, sire's  sire, sire's dam, dam's sire,
etc. have
> names that would me help  keep them straight!
>

Ok - sorry for the delay in replying to  this - overrun with Soay
lambs at the moment....

Firefly (Black and  White) - Sire Claudius (Dark Mouflon), Dam Fleur
(Black and  White)

Claudius - Sire Poseidon (Self Black), Dam Elsie (White with  small
brown markings)

Fleur - Sire Peter Pan (White with tan  markings), Dam Cleo (Dark
Mouflon)

I have posted a photo of Elsie  in my album along with a couple of
other 2008  lambs...

Julie

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ann,

   Pictures have all come through - many thanks. A handsome little chap....
   Will go through the CFB to check out the bloodlines and get back to you.

   Julie


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Julie
Expect you may have realised what the pics of the black lamb were!  I really
must get myself organised with the internet!
Hope these help!
Ann
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Julie Suffolk
   To: soaysheep@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:04 AM
   Subject: [soaysheep] Re: Black and White Soay


   Nice little tup lamb... I've only one more soay left to lamb then it's
   all over for another year.
   Just out of interest - what was your lambing percentage this year? Out
   of 24 ewes only 7 of mine had singles, 17 had twins and 1 had triplets -
   I've never seen so many babies.....





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Julie & anybody else interested

I will try & attach some not v good pics of the black ram lamb  - bear with me!!
He is jet black with a tiny white mark central on his forehead and a small
evenly marked white backside.
Sire  S10158  Gaerllwyd Magnus
Dam S11229 Burstye W209
Dam's sire S9188 Burstye Leander

Please let me know if any of you get them OK!!

Ann Knowles

PS told you I wasn't v good at it - gather they will all go to you separately!!


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Julie Suffolk
   To: soaysheep@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:44 AM
   Subject: [soaysheep] Re: Black and White Soay


   --- In soaysheep@yahoogroups.com, marrstree@... wrote:
   >
   > Oh yes - If the dam, sire, sire's sire, sire's dam, dam's sire,
   etc. have
   > names that would me help keep them straight!
   >

   Ok - sorry for the delay in replying to this - overrun with Soay
   lambs at the moment....

   Firefly (Black and White) - Sire Claudius (Dark Mouflon), Dam Fleur
   (Black and White)

   Claudius - Sire Poseidon (Self Black), Dam Elsie (White with small
   brown markings)

   Fleur - Sire Peter Pan (White with tan markings), Dam Cleo (Dark
   Mouflon)

   I have posted a photo of Elsie in my album along with a couple of
   other 2008 lambs...

   Julie





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Suffolk wrote: <<Just out of interest - what was your lambing percentage
this year? Out
of 24 ewes only 7 of mine had singles, 17 had twins and 1 had triplets -
  I've never seen so many babies.....>>

Ours was 150% for both Soays and Hebs, yours 183% if my shaky maths is working. 
The only time we always had a lambing percentage over 200% was with the
Jacobs........ With fears of BT coming north this year we deliberately kept the
ewes on low rations at tupping time to keep the percentage down .
Our tup:ewe proportion was 2:1 for Soays, so a very tuppy year for us, closer to
50:50 for the Hebs.
In spite of a few blizzards and some heavy rain, our outdoor lambing went fine
with no birthing problems. Now we just have to raise them safely!
Juliet





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Really sorry not to have been able to photograph the black ram lamb with white
markings yet - I hope to get my camera back on Sunday & will then have a go.  I
am not on Broadband so may have some difficulty trying to e-mail it, if
necessary I will get a print & snail mail that to whoever would like to see
him!!
Ann Knowles


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Julie Suffolk
   To: soaysheep@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:44 AM
   Subject: [soaysheep] Re: Black and White Soay


   --- In soaysheep@yahoogroups.com, marrstree@... wrote:
   >
   > Oh yes - If the dam, sire, sire's sire, sire's dam, dam's sire,
   etc. have
   > names that would me help keep them straight!
   >

   Ok - sorry for the delay in replying to this - overrun with Soay
   lambs at the moment....

   Firefly (Black and White) - Sire Claudius (Dark Mouflon), Dam Fleur
   (Black and White)

   Claudius - Sire Poseidon (Self Black), Dam Elsie (White with small
   brown markings)

   Fleur - Sire Peter Pan (White with tan markings), Dam Cleo (Dark
   Mouflon)

   I have posted a photo of Elsie in my album along with a couple of
   other 2008 lambs...

   Julie





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nice little tup lamb...  I've only one more soay left to lamb then it's
all over for another year.
Just out of interest - what was your lambing percentage this year? Out
of 24 ewes only 7 of mine had singles, 17 had twins and 1 had triplets -
  I've never seen so many babies.....

That's the Soay lambing finished this morning - black twins, a tup and a ewe.
Picture posted to the group website in the Gladstone Soays folder. I have also
posted a picture of the tup lamb with a white spot on top of his head.
Just one Hebridean to go now...
Gordon.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In soaysheep@yahoogroups.com, marrstree@... wrote:
>
> Oh yes - If the dam, sire, sire's sire, sire's dam, dam's sire,
etc. have
> names that would me help keep them straight!
>

Ok - sorry for the delay in replying to this - overrun with Soay
lambs at the moment....

Firefly (Black and White) - Sire Claudius (Dark Mouflon), Dam Fleur
(Black and White)

Claudius - Sire Poseidon (Self Black), Dam Elsie (White with small
brown markings)

Fleur - Sire Peter Pan (White with tan markings), Dam Cleo (Dark
Mouflon)

I have posted a photo of Elsie in my album along with a couple of
other 2008 lambs...

Julie

<< I did not realize there were so many self-blacks, and those also with
white being bred "over there". How many black ewes do you have bred
for the year? >>

I don't think there are very many blacks at all, in fact.  We have a tiny
handful - we bred 3 registered and one unreg black this year, and left 2
shearling blacks and one self brown unbred, largely because of our fears of Blue
Tongue disease coming north to us, but also because we don't have a suitable
unrelated tup.  Julie Suffolk helped us to put together our tiny black flock,
and provided our first registered black tup, Backforest Cedric.  We began with
some unregistered blacks in with some mouflons, then bought a couple of reg
black carrier mouflons ( I think this is what you call 'hidden' blacks?) and the
black tup, then later the black ewes. There are a few flocks around I think
which occasionally find a black lamb in the crop, but so far we are the only
breeders I know who concentrate on them.  Julie probably has more than us, but
she has a very much larger flock than we do and breeds for interesting patterns.
Our main breed is 4 horned Hebridean so the Soay have to fit in.  Whites and
white with black seem to be more popular.  Our piebald ones were unexpected and
have come through a little black ewe from a flock which I understand has many
animals carrying the spotted gene, although we also have a black tup lamb with a
white star on his crown this year, from an unrelated ewe.
As an indicator of how few self blacks there are, we are having great difficulty
in finding a new black stock tup, now that we have Cedric's daughters to breed. 
There are a few around ( and we have 2 others for sale) but they are all fairly
closely related to Cedric.
So if anyone out there has a black Soay tup for sale, preferably but not
necessarily outside the BT zone, we would be interested.

We looked at your album Gevan - you have some beautiful animals.  That is why I
said that I wished the Atlantic (and most of the American continent I think) did
not separate us, as we would love to buy some of your stock.  I hope your
lambing goes well and look forward to seeing pictures of the new arrivals.

We are hoping too to see pictures of the grey Soays people have mentioned -
Soays seem to be almost as colourful as Shetlands !

Juliet in Scotland, with just one Soay ewe to lamb and a 'will-she-won't-she'
Hebridean, then we will be finished.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am putting out a feeler to see if there is any interest in putting together a
transport from
the northwest to FL (Ocala area).  Lots of space heading eastbound, limited
space heading
westbound.

I would like to stay on route as much as possible, I-80 to I-29 to I-70 to I-24
to I-75 so no
side trips during this trip.  Flexibility to meet me along the route is
necessary on this trip.
But your flexibility will be rewarded with a great transport fee.

Looking at doing this trip May 7-15.

Let me know if you have any goats, sheep, llamas, horses dogs/cats, etc. needing
transport
along this route.  Price will be fair considering the increasing fuel costs. 
Discounts for
multiple animals.

We currently have some great Nubian doelings and bucklings available!  Here is
your chance
to have your new bloodlines delivered to you.

Jillian McIntosh
http://www.luckytohavefarm.com
http://www.karismakigers.com

I did not realize there were so many self-blacks, and those also with
white being bred "over there". How many black ewes do you have bred
for the year?
My flock is unusual for North American Soay flocks as I have a very
high percentage of either self-blacks or carriers of agouti-self. (by
intention, of course - that's what I was looking for in particular
when I started assembling my flock.)
I have about 18 self-colored blacks - most also with white spotting,
and 7 or 8 "hidden" self-colored blacks (heterozygous for agouti self-
colored).
My "Black and White" breeding group has not yet started to lamb for
this year - my B&W ram was quite young so was a bit late.
My Black and White Soays are posted in a Picasa album:

http://picasaweb.google.com/marrstree/BlackAndWhiteSoaySheepAtWoodland
CreekFarm

Gevan Marrs



--- In soaysheep@yahoogroups.com, "Juliet & Gordon"
<westergladstone@...> wrote:
>
> Hi All
> We have just posted a picture of our latest arrivals, twins,
under 'Gladstone Soay'. The tup lamb is self black and the ewe lamb
is mostly white with black on her head and neck. As with all our
breeding stock this year, both parents are self black.  This same ewe
had a similar set of twins last year, both females, with one being
more evenly piebald than this year's.  However, although her dark
patches appeared completely black at birth they quickly faded to milk
chocolate brown, right down to the skin.  We thought we might call
this year's twins Shasta and Rasta........or maybe not !
> It is lovely to see other people's lambs.
> Gevan, we are looking forward to reading your article.
> Juliet and Gordon in Scotland
> (fleecewife)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi All
We have just posted a picture of our latest arrivals, twins, under 'Gladstone
Soay'. The tup lamb is self black and the ewe lamb is mostly white with black on
her head and neck. As with all our breeding stock this year, both parents are
self black.  This same ewe had a similar set of twins last year, both females,
with one being more evenly piebald than this year's.  However, although her dark
patches appeared completely black at birth they quickly faded to milk chocolate
brown, right down to the skin.  We thought we might call this year's twins
Shasta and Rasta........or maybe not !
It is lovely to see other people's lambs.
Gevan, we are looking forward to reading your article.
Juliet and Gordon in Scotland
(fleecewife)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh yes - If the dam, sire, sire's sire, sire's dam, dam's sire, etc. have
names that would me help keep them straight!
Thanks

Gevan Marrs


In a message dated 4/19/2008 7:08:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bfsoay@... writes:




The sire's dam is predominantly white with brown around the eyes and a
brown collar - I will try to find a photo to post on the albums.
The  dam's sire was white with brown spotting, her dam was - I believe -
dark  mouflon.
Since the birth of Firefly I have also had 2 black and white ram  lambs
although there is more white than black on their fleeces. Both of  them
share the same sire and grandsire as Firefly - hope this isn't  getting
too confusing :-)
When time permits I will head outside with  the camera....







**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can follow it!
I assume most know about Sue Furness's flock in Wales - I've studied their
pedigrees quite a bit and hope to post a paper on it someday...
Here is a link to her photo album for those interested in white spotting
(some on mouflon pattern, some on self, some light phase, some dark).
_http://pets.webshots.com/album/548737232VueoDY_
(http://pets.webshots.com/album/548737232VueoDY)
and many more at:
_http://pets.webshots.com/album/519565121bRiJCA_
(http://pets.webshots.com/album/519565121bRiJCA)

Gevan Marrs




In a message dated 4/19/2008 7:08:59 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bfsoay@... writes:




The sire's dam is predominantly white with brown around the eyes and a
brown collar - I will try to find a photo to post on the albums.
The  dam's sire was white with brown spotting, her dam was - I believe -
dark  mouflon.
Since the birth of Firefly I have also had 2 black and white ram  lambs
although there is more white than black on their fleeces. Both of  them
share the same sire and grandsire as Firefly - hope this isn't  getting
too confusing :-)
When time permits I will head outside with  the camera....







**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The sire's dam is predominantly white with brown around the eyes and a
brown collar - I will try to find a photo to post on the albums.
The dam's sire was white with brown spotting, her dam was - I believe -
dark mouflon.
Since the birth of Firefly I have also had 2 black and white ram lambs
although there is more white than black on their fleeces. Both of them
share the same sire and grandsire as Firefly - hope this isn't getting
too confusing :-)
When time permits I will head outside with the camera....

Ah! When I see the coat pattern of the dam, the lamb coat is far less
surprising to me. Of course the sire's sire being self-black means the sire had 
to
be carrying one copy of the recessive self-colored agouti gene, so 50% chance
of giving it to the current lamb (which it did).
When you say that the sire's dam was white, do you mean mostly white with a
bit of black here and there (most likely right around the eyes, in cases I've
seen). Any chance of a photo of her?
Also, what about the dam's dam or sire phenotype? My prediction would be
that one or both had considerable white spotting to have produced the extent
shown on the dam.
Hope this isn't annoying, but white extent inheritance and progression is
something I have been studying.
I can't remember if I have posted on this forum, so here is a link to an
article I wrote about this on my thinking a while back: (Number 9 article on
this page)
_http://woodlandcreekfarm.com/soayinfo.html_
(http://woodlandcreekfarm.com/soayinfo.html)

Gevan Marrs
Woodland Creek Farm
Puyallup, WA, USA


In a message dated 4/19/2008 12:05:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bfsoay@... writes:




Firefly's dam is also black and white - I have added her photo. Her
sire is a dark mouflon BUT his parents are self-black (sire) and white
(dam). I wasn't expecting to achieve black and white from this
combination - bit of a gamble that actually paid off....







**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Firefly's dam is also black and white - I have added her photo. Her
sire is a dark mouflon BUT his parents are self-black (sire) and white
(dam). I wasn't expecting to achieve black and white from this
combination - bit of a gamble that actually paid off....

Very neat. I would love to see the photos and pedigrees of several
generations back to see how the self-colored and white came forth.
Someday I will have one or more like this one! So farm mine only have white
limited to poll and forehead.
Gevan Marrs
Woodland Creek Farm
Washington State USA


In a message dated 4/18/2008 8:51:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
bfsoay@... writes:




Just posted a photo of my black and white ewe lamb - Backforest
Firefly. I have been striving to achieve black and white for several
years using various sire / dam colour combinations and finally this
year I achieved success :-)







**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just posted a photo of my black and white ewe lamb - Backforest
Firefly. I have been striving to achieve black and white for several
years using various sire / dam colour combinations and finally this
year I achieved success :-)

Jacqui,

I too would love to see pictures of your self-colored light phase sheep -
the chocolate brown -- and especially of the "grey" ewe.  What were the
color and pattern of her parents?  I am very curious about where this "grey"
comes from.  Paul, any chance of a picture of yours as well?  Are there
others of you out there with gray Soays?

Thanks!

/jen (in Oregon)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would love to see photographs posted! (Especially chocolate brown and
"grey")
Hint, hint!
Wish I was able to swap with you.
Gevan Marrs
Washington state, USA


In a message dated 4/17/2008 4:23:37 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jstucker@... writes:




I have been following the messages about black soays recently as two years
ago we had our first self black soay lamb born and I was delighted to see it
was female. Last year she produced another black female lamb and today we have
another black lamb born. I cannot figure out how after fifteen years of mixed
  colours we were suddenly seeing black and also self brown lambs being born.
The chocolate brown ones have been male and I still have them both, just in
case anyone is interested in doing a swap later in the year. The self black
ewe is quite large compared to other ewes and we also had a grey ewe born two
years ago who has yet to produce any offspring, and she is much smaller than
usual almost tiny, but has grown quite a significant wooly mane,  Strange!
Jacqui Tucker
_jstucker@..._ (mailto:jstucker@...)

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]







**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been following the messages about black soays recently as two years ago
we had our first self black soay lamb born and I was delighted to see it was
female. Last year she produced another black female lamb and today we have
another black lamb born.  I cannot figure out how after fifteen years of mixed
colours we were suddenly seeing black and also self brown lambs being born.  The
chocolate brown ones have been male and I still have them both, just in case
anyone is interested in doing a swap later in the year.  The self black ewe is
quite large compared to other ewes and we also had a grey ewe born two years ago
who has yet to produce any offspring, and she is much smaller than usual almost
tiny, but has grown quite a significant wooly mane, Strange!
Jacqui Tucker
jstucker@...

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Hi,
Our chocolate Soay (Overden Fern) has just produced a all over Gray ewelamb this
morning.

Dotty

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