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Reply | Forward Message #8857 of 9018 |
Re: [space-elevator] Re: Star Tram

As I recall the Sunshield episode of Discovery Project Earth
considered a coil gun for launching lenses to deflect light away from
Earth. The project called for a coil gun over a mile long to launch
800,000 lenses .04 oz / 1 gram each every five minutes. Such a coil
gun was estimated to take 30 years to develop if research was geared
up substantially from current levels *now*.

So how does the induced force of lauching say, 10, let alone the 70
metric tons the StarTram proposal calls for at 2.5 gs over 1250 km
compare to the force required to launch .8 metric tons over probably
something like 2 km at much higher gs? The paper I downloaded a long
time ago says that the "acceleration drive power" is 28 GW.

Let's see, the mass launched under StarTram is 87.5 times greater, but
the force is spread out over greater time and distance. The distance
is is probably something like 625 times greater. My guess is that
StarTram is probably more doable.

I have two papers I downloaded back when you could get them for free.
Do I dare in this age of perpetual copyreich to upload them to the
files section (assuming that feature is even on)? I suspect that some
changes/corrections have been made since then.

I'd hate to wait 30 (or even 10) years for solutions to Global Warming
and fossil fuel dependence. I'd rather have Space-based solar power
than a Sunshield. Even at this point, we may already need both I
suppose.

Even if you can produce solar cells at 10 cents per watt, how long
will they last without a glass or plastic cover to protect them from
the elements? Then what are your costs? Perhaps an aerostat version
of Cool Earth Balloons (www.coolearthsolar.com) is a posibility. If
we need to get our power from space-based solar power and the only way
to do it now is to use the "nuclear option(tm)" I say go for it.

The Case For Orion by Wayne Smith
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/nuclearspace-03h.html

Note:"nuclear option" is a registered trademark of Rupert Murdoch's
Propaganda Corp.

----- Original Message -----
From: Andreas
To: space-elevator@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: [space-elevator] Re: Star Tram






Check out this cool paper:

http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/nexgen/Nexgen_Downloads/Spaceport_Visioning_\
Final_Report.pdf


There used to be a company named Star Tram Inc., and a web-site with
cool pictures less than a year ago. We may have brought it up oon this
forum once or twice, I don't remember. Now, I can't find a trace of it
except for the patent and the above document (Ask me for a copy if
those disappear, too .. Wait, I hear someone knocking down my door :-)

Andreas




Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:21 pm

wlhaught
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Message #8857 of 9018 |
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... Here is another very interesting link about superconducting cable in very practical utility applications since about 2000, when we were all very much...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 17, 2009
4:30 pm

As I recall the Sunshield episode of Discovery Project Earth considered a coil gun for launching lenses to deflect light away from Earth. The project called...
William Haught
wlhaught
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Jun 19, 2009
4:22 pm

... To be feasible, both StarTram and coil gun will need to be designed in such a way that the energy needed during launch is first stored in the system, as...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 20, 2009
1:33 am

... The cost of Alumina Ceramic would need to come down in price. Some type of active building control might keep it up. You might need these type of systems...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 2, 2009
9:20 pm

... Yes. However, alumina is made from some of the most common elements in the Earth's crust, so for an SRS it would be an abundant material. Silica glass...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:03 pm

Well, what do you know, according to here: http://www.sciner.com/Opticsland/FS.htm Fused silica has a compressive strength of 1.1 GPa and density of 2.2. That...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:21 pm

... Yup. Launch loop/orbital ring/space fountain. ... -- -Ian Woollard "All the world's a stage... but you'll grow out of it eventually."...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
12:38 am

... Or that Star Tram. That actually does use Lorentz force, in contrast to those other ones. Less moving parts, also, which could be a tremendous advantage....
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
2:00 am

2009/6/4 Andreas <awnd329@...> ... Nope, they use the Lorentz force. ... 1200 km long very thick superconducting cables carrying really *massive* ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
3:11 am

... How so? IIRC, inertia is used as the primary force to keep things up, and magnetic attraction secondarily to connect to the cable and to impart the motion....
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
3:44 pm

... You're mistaken. Inertia isn't a force. ;-) ... Well... there's a current in the movement of the electron clouds around the atoms that is the reason for...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
4:47 pm

... Magnets hold up the ancillaries to the rotor, but it is the rotor that holds up everything. By inertia, if you call it a force or not. To say the loop is...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
8:55 pm

2009/6/4 Andreas <awnd329@...> ... Magnets hold up the rotor though ;-) ... Well, that's true as well; those bolts do do that, but more than that, those ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
1:26 am

... Ok, so the loop/bridge are held up by 1) turnaround magnets / towers 2) rotor inertia / cable tension 3) sheath magnets / roadway bolts All of the above,...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:18 am

... Well, I have been taught it. The thing is though, that the efficiency of a turbomolecular pump goes as the square of the speed, and this is about an order...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
2:57 am

... I am not an expert, but I think turbomolecular pumps have multiple stages, and each has blades angled just the right way, and they have to have a pretty...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
1:32 pm

... They do that because the turbine is spinning much more slowly; also the geometry is radically different. I think turbines spin at about 350 m/s, whereas a...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
1:46 pm

... Really? That would be nice to see. Any idea where it could be found? Andreas...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
1:59 pm

... No, no idea. It was on UK TV years ago. It was absolutely the minimum you could imagine- it was a wire going around in a cable. It did lift though. ... -- ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
2:12 pm

... Yes, I remember, I called that a sputtering chain reaction back when we discussed it elsewhere. It could have been a show-stopper, but it turns out to be...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:11 pm

... size, ... strength. I'm not exactly seeing how, but I've only been skimming this conversation. ... I'm all about flywheels. :-) Rub my nose in a previous...
Jo Jaquinta
jim_plummer
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Jun 5, 2009
4:02 pm

... I don't think there is much, but it follows directly as a cross between the launch loop (particularly the circles where the loop turns around) and a...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
9:45 pm

... Just so nobody gets confused: The $60 billion is for the Star Tram. The Long Island superconducting power transmission project I referenced has been...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:39 am

I would say a 60 billion for a Star Tram is deal. More less half the price of the space station. Just for comparsion the 2009 US DOD budget is more than 600...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 7, 2009
1:56 pm

I believe Star Tram is more like 600 Billion instead of 60 Billion. Still 0.2 % of GDP over 20 years is very good space investment. ...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 7, 2009
2:10 pm

From this type of analysis, we can expect that building Great Pyramids should be dirt cheap.  Thus far, the most significant Pyramid of recent construction...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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Jun 3, 2009
2:06 am

The only point I was making was we could built between 30 and 100 Eiffel Towers today if we wanted too. A space tower model after the Eiffel Tower would take...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 3, 2009
9:05 pm

... Still peanuts, I bet, compared with today's equivalent of the pyramids: The defense budget and the bank bailout. Andreas...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:14 pm

Aye.   Therein lies the rub. Grotleg !  CH Check out www.craigholmfiction.com ... From: Herbert Murray <hcm1955@...> Subject: [space-elevator] Re:...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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Jun 5, 2009
6:59 pm

I'm probably missing something here.   What is it that keeps this hoop from dropping to the Earth's surface? Grotleg !  CH Check out www.craigholmfiction.com...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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May 19, 2009
10:10 am
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