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Vertical aerovator   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #8858 of 9018 |
Re: Star Tram

--- In space-elevator@yahoogroups.com, "William Haught" <wlhaught5873847@...>
wrote:
>
> So how does the induced force of lauching say, 10, let alone the 70
> metric tons the StarTram proposal calls for at 2.5 gs over 1250 km
> compare to the force required to launch .8 metric tons over probably
> something like 2 km at much higher gs? The paper I downloaded a long
> time ago says that the "acceleration drive power" is 28 GW.
>
To be feasible, both StarTram and coil gun will need to be designed in such a
way that the energy needed during launch is first stored in the system, as
magnetic field energy. In other words, the coils get charged comparatively
slowly to full (super-) current, and then get depolarized/deenergized very
quickly by the passing vehicle/projectile.

It is easy to have the approaching projectile depolarize the coil and get
accelerated, but it is hard to turn the coil off fast enough to avoid it getting
recharged (and the projectile slowed back down) afterward. Especially near the
muzzle, where this needs to happen VERY fast.

The best way seems to be quenching of superconductivity, but at near orbital
speed the electromotive force in the wake of the projectile gets so large that
any known coil materials will evaporate from the induced current. What is needed
is a superconducting material that instantly becomes a good insulator when
quenched. I don't think a suitable material is known at this time, and there may
well not be one.

If the problem is solved, though, the process is quite energy efficient, i.e.
the actual electrical power needed is not much more than the kinetic energy
passed to the projectile, and because of the built-in energy storage ability of
any plausible system it will not need to be pulsed.

Andreas






Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:32 am

awnd329
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Message #8858 of 9018 |
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As I recall the Sunshield episode of Discovery Project Earth considered a coil gun for launching lenses to deflect light away from Earth. The project called...
William Haught
wlhaught
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Jun 19, 2009
4:22 pm

... To be feasible, both StarTram and coil gun will need to be designed in such a way that the energy needed during launch is first stored in the system, as...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 20, 2009
1:33 am

... The cost of Alumina Ceramic would need to come down in price. Some type of active building control might keep it up. You might need these type of systems...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 2, 2009
9:20 pm

... Yes. However, alumina is made from some of the most common elements in the Earth's crust, so for an SRS it would be an abundant material. Silica glass...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:03 pm

Well, what do you know, according to here: http://www.sciner.com/Opticsland/FS.htm Fused silica has a compressive strength of 1.1 GPa and density of 2.2. That...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:21 pm

... Yup. Launch loop/orbital ring/space fountain. ... -- -Ian Woollard "All the world's a stage... but you'll grow out of it eventually."...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
12:38 am

... Or that Star Tram. That actually does use Lorentz force, in contrast to those other ones. Less moving parts, also, which could be a tremendous advantage....
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
2:00 am

2009/6/4 Andreas <awnd329@...> ... Nope, they use the Lorentz force. ... 1200 km long very thick superconducting cables carrying really *massive* ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
3:11 am

... How so? IIRC, inertia is used as the primary force to keep things up, and magnetic attraction secondarily to connect to the cable and to impart the motion....
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
3:44 pm

... You're mistaken. Inertia isn't a force. ;-) ... Well... there's a current in the movement of the electron clouds around the atoms that is the reason for...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 4, 2009
4:47 pm

... Magnets hold up the ancillaries to the rotor, but it is the rotor that holds up everything. By inertia, if you call it a force or not. To say the loop is...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 4, 2009
8:55 pm

2009/6/4 Andreas <awnd329@...> ... Magnets hold up the rotor though ;-) ... Well, that's true as well; those bolts do do that, but more than that, those ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
1:26 am

... Ok, so the loop/bridge are held up by 1) turnaround magnets / towers 2) rotor inertia / cable tension 3) sheath magnets / roadway bolts All of the above,...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:18 am

... Well, I have been taught it. The thing is though, that the efficiency of a turbomolecular pump goes as the square of the speed, and this is about an order...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
2:57 am

... I am not an expert, but I think turbomolecular pumps have multiple stages, and each has blades angled just the right way, and they have to have a pretty...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
1:32 pm

... They do that because the turbine is spinning much more slowly; also the geometry is radically different. I think turbines spin at about 350 m/s, whereas a...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
1:46 pm

... Really? That would be nice to see. Any idea where it could be found? Andreas...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
1:59 pm

... No, no idea. It was on UK TV years ago. It was absolutely the minimum you could imagine- it was a wire going around in a cable. It did lift though. ... -- ...
Ian Woollard
wolfekeeper
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Jun 5, 2009
2:12 pm

... Yes, I remember, I called that a sputtering chain reaction back when we discussed it elsewhere. It could have been a show-stopper, but it turns out to be...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:11 pm

... size, ... strength. I'm not exactly seeing how, but I've only been skimming this conversation. ... I'm all about flywheels. :-) Rub my nose in a previous...
Jo Jaquinta
jim_plummer
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Jun 5, 2009
4:02 pm

... I don't think there is much, but it follows directly as a cross between the launch loop (particularly the circles where the loop turns around) and a...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
9:45 pm

... Just so nobody gets confused: The $60 billion is for the Star Tram. The Long Island superconducting power transmission project I referenced has been...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 5, 2009
2:39 am

I would say a 60 billion for a Star Tram is deal. More less half the price of the space station. Just for comparsion the 2009 US DOD budget is more than 600...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 7, 2009
1:56 pm

I believe Star Tram is more like 600 Billion instead of 60 Billion. Still 0.2 % of GDP over 20 years is very good space investment. ...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 7, 2009
2:10 pm

From this type of analysis, we can expect that building Great Pyramids should be dirt cheap.  Thus far, the most significant Pyramid of recent construction...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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Jun 3, 2009
2:06 am

The only point I was making was we could built between 30 and 100 Eiffel Towers today if we wanted too. A space tower model after the Eiffel Tower would take...
Herbert Murray
hcm1955
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Jun 3, 2009
9:05 pm

... Still peanuts, I bet, compared with today's equivalent of the pyramids: The defense budget and the bank bailout. Andreas...
Andreas
awnd329
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Jun 3, 2009
9:14 pm

Aye.   Therein lies the rub. Grotleg !  CH Check out www.craigholmfiction.com ... From: Herbert Murray <hcm1955@...> Subject: [space-elevator] Re:...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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Jun 5, 2009
6:59 pm

I'm probably missing something here.   What is it that keeps this hoop from dropping to the Earth's surface? Grotleg !  CH Check out www.craigholmfiction.com...
Craig Holm
craig_holm
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May 19, 2009
10:10 am

... There's wings and engines on the rim. As the hoop rolls this brings the wings and engines into the atmosphere for a while and then brings them back out...
Ian Woollard
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May 19, 2009
12:59 pm
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