Hi Isaac,

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Although I don't
quite agree with you, I really appreciate it. It is great to see
this group coming alive again. (BTW, I very much hope for
another life sign from Tyler :-) )

Isaac Raway wrote:
> This is all really too bad...
>
> But I have to just get something out because it's been bothering me for
> a long time...when I first heard of this project and tried to get
> involved, it all just seemed far too complicated. Focused a bit too much
> on theory and parsers and nonsense, instead of making a working package.
>
> A committed group of 5 people could have a working HyperCard clone in 7
> working days. I know because in just a bit more time (maybe 3 weeks) I

You mean a HyperCard clone including a HyperTalk compiler,
right? Problem with this kind of claims is that you never know
whether they are true, until it has been done.

> created a functional one on my own. The only thing it lacked was an
> xTalk but that isn't as critical as the environment (linking dialogs &
> simplified scripting UIs can provide the same benefits as xTalk but are
> easier to code).

I did that too, a long time ago, using ZBasic. Maybe not a
complete clone, but it had cards, buttons and fields and one
could browse the cards. It took me an afternoon to get it done,
but for some reason I never started with a HyperTalk compiler.

> That project fell apart because I wrote it in VB 6, no one was
> interested in it, and I made some big mistakes early in it's database's
> design.

I believe the same happened with the WF/Spere project, but the
guys were brave enough to start again, and again, and I believe
even a third time. I really Tyler and Jonathyn for that.

> I think that if a project was started with a few guidelines in place it
> would be a bit more successful:
>
> * Use a portable database library like SQLite. In fact, just use
> SQLite. It's the answer: relational binary portability on many
> platforms. An object database would be nice but coding one on top of
> SQLite isn't that hard.

Here, you are making exactly the same mistake that you reproach
the lead programmers of this project with. Why SQLite?!!! Of all
possible alternatives, this would be the last I would think of.
I'm sure it is based on some nice well-founded theory, but here
we're not to test theories.

> * Create a UI when a scripting language is too complex or time
> consuming to write.

This is not the goal of this project.

> * Use a simple XML based scripting language like Radio UserLand's
> stuff. Don't need to write a very complex parser (just a bit of
> expression magic in the lines themselves, all the block type stuff is
> taken care of by the elements), provide an outline based script editor,
> and you're "done". (It isn't really that simple obviously but it's
> easier than writing an xTalk.)

This is not the goal of this project.

> * Make it actually work first (starting with simpler stacks such as
> an address book, help library, picture gallery, etc.), then add the
> other stuff.

That's what they do here.

> * Put it all in one executable.

I guess that's what is aimed at, but if it is impractible, I
really don't mind having a software package that consists of
several components. Like HyperCard.

> * Make it run on Windows and Mac.

Well, let's try to get something running on either one of them,
first.

> Just my two cents. At any rate, I will be working on a project like this
> at some point in the distant future.

That's sounds very interesting. Does it include a HyperTalk
compiler? Even if not, I'd still be very interested in the
development of any new RAD tool. Please keep me, or us, informed.

I'd like to add some comments on my own position in this matter.
To me, it seems that this project makes very slow progress,
which I regret very much. First of all, if Tyler and Jonathyn
have any idea about how I could help to speed up development,
let me know. It is just that I have little time, being
repsonsible for several project being developed by
Economy-x-Talk. I should be able to spend an hour on WF/Sphere
every now and then, though, as long as you don't ask me to code
in C++.

Also, if this were a commercial project and there were a way to
claim a percentage of the revenues, I would be glad to co-invest
in this project and help marketing it. So, if Jonathyn and Tyler
ever change their mind, we could remove the open-source tag and
find ways to finance it.

Best,

Mark

--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

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