Hi,

What's the current status of the Sphere/PXI/... project? I
noticed Tyler working on something called jsCard --which seems
very cool--, does it mean that other projects are currently on a
hold?

Best,

Mark

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Am 15.08.2006 um 16:04 schrieb Richard Talbott:
> I used Royal software's hypertalk compiler to make a large number
> of XCMDs and XFCNs. I read the following to mean I will not be able
> to use them with supercard. I think my code is PPC, but that will
> be another investigation. Agreed, a recompile is needed, but at
> this time I do not know carbon or C. No sweat, one solid man week
> and I can be up to speed on the introductory stuff, it's just that
> I have an infinite number of 5-minute jobs already.

   There was never a version of CompileIt for PowerPC (well, none that
shipped, though I think Tom Pittman was working on something). Also,
even if there had been a PPC version, that would definitely only have
been a Classic version, not Carbon source code. So, unless all of
your XCMDs were straight HyperTalk and you just compiled it to speed
it up (in which case you'd probably just re-use the code as is in a
modern xTalk, as all of them have gotten significantly faster and run
on much faster hardware these days), you'll have to rewrite it in C
and Carbon.

> hmmm,  anyone know of a stack I can use to compile a stack scrip
> into native code for speed improvements? I wish to remain ignorant
> of the professional programmer's infinite dimensions of infinite
> dimensional space.... Laser point concentration has its advantages
> (and disadvantages... sigh).

   I wouldn't bother at this point. RunRev is "virtually compiled",
which essentially means they're running some internal byte code, and
SuperCard's interpreter has seen speed-ups well beyond 800% in recent
releases, and you're running on very fast hardware these days. If
it's just speed you need, the native languages should be about
sufficient these days. There's no script compiler available at this
time as far as I know.

> "In this case, most externals designed for use with HyperCard will
> not be executable in OS X. "

   Yeah. That's a problem with OS X, not with SuperCard, and it's true
for *any* xCard. The reason is simply that OS X introduced
significantly changed APIs, and that the old ones don't work on a
modern, pre-emptively scheduled OS.

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

Am 14.08.2006 um 20:06 schrieb Richard Talbott:
> Supercard did not mention if it has removed the 32k limitation on
> fields and scripts; revolution brags several times they have. I
> have massive amounts of code developed to bypass this limitation.

Oh, they did that ages ago. They switched to Marco Piovanelli's
WASTE text engine way back when SC still belonged to Aldus. So, you
shouldn't need to worry about that.

> Supercard still doesn't seem to support XCMDs and XFNCs (which was
> a show stopper for me back in the early 1990's) and those that it
> can run have to be run under classic (the limitation I am trying to
> get away from); revolution in contrast claims it does run these
> externals.

Where did you find that info? SuperCard definitely supports Xes.
They're pretty much the same as the ones HyperCard had, just with
lots of functionality added. They also support XRTNs, which is a kind
of XCMD that stays resident in memory. They do *not*, however,
support most of the extensions added in HyperCard 2.x (debugger and
xWindow stuff), but that's mostly because it's not needed.

MetaCard has its own mechanism for XCMDs and XFCNs which is nothing
like that in HyperCard. I presume that stayed the same for RunRev.

However, note that it's not possible to mix and match architectures
in a single application on Mac OS X. So, you can't load a PowerPC
XCMD into a native Intel application, or one built for Classic under

Carbon/OS X. But that's true for all kinds of application plug-ins,
not just for those in SuperCard or MetaCard/RunRev. So, you will
definitely have to recompile your externals using the original source
code, or find a replacement that's been compiled for the platform
you're running on.

> I like the vision revolution puts forth with cross platform
> operation and connection into the internet (my wife/son use WINTELs
> so I can export my creativity to their machines). The script line:
> put URL "address" into x; is an attractive command; I have solved
> this issue using applescript to MS explorer, but it appears
> Revolution is better integrated with WWW developments, operating
> systems, XML etc.

AFAIK AppleScript can even directly download data from URLs without
going through Explorer or whatever. And while SC's AppleScript
support isn't as nice as that in HyperCard (it's basically an
AppleScript XCMD rolled into the application), AppleScript *is*
supported.

> I do feel burned by apple with respect to their handling of HC over
> the years (clairis) and the more recent intel powerbook dropping
> classic. Screw me once shame on apple, screw me twice .... Don't
> get me wrong, I love my mac and have used apple products
> exclusively since 1981, but going into the future for the next 50
> years (looking at my son's future as well), I suspect I want to
> migrate towards platform independence.

Apple had announced that Classic MacOS would be dropped sooner or
later, and the switch to Intel was the sensible point in time to do
that. Porting Classic to run emulated in Rosetta on Intel would have
been a huge task for very little gain. If you're against the Intel
move per se, I can understand that, but considering OS X has matured
and we're switching to Intel, keeping Classic would have been a bad
business decision.

> I noticed revolution uses PHP to set up their website, wonder why
> they simply didn't make their stacks available. Too Slow?

That probably, and I'd guess they want people to be able to visit
the site and see all the stuff even if they haven't bought RunRev (yet).

> I have a set of bench marks I run to evaluate new macs before I
> upgrade my hardware; I think I will try moving my home and bench
> marking stack over to revolution first then try supercard.

Just keep in mind that each has ways to "properly do" something.
E.g. RunRev has lots of special optimised variants of repeat to speed
up certain kinds of loops etc.

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

-- 

Am 14.08.2006 um 20:06 schrieb Richard Talbott:
> Supercard did not mention if it has removed the 32k limitation on
> fields and scripts; revolution brags several times they have. I
> have massive amounts of code developed to bypass this limitation.

   Oh, they did that ages ago. They switched to Marco Piovanelli's
WASTE text engine way back when SC still belonged to Aldus. So, you
shouldn't need to worry about that.

> Supercard still doesn't seem to support XCMDs and XFNCs (which was
> a show stopper for me back in the early 1990's) and those that it
> can run have to be run under classic (the limitation I am trying to
> get away from); revolution in contrast claims it does run these
> externals.

   Where did you find that info? SuperCard definitely supports Xes.
They're pretty much the same as the ones HyperCard had, just with
lots of functionality added. They also support XRTNs, which is a kind
of XCMD that stays resident in memory. They do *not*, however,
support most of the extensions added in HyperCard 2.x (debugger and
xWindow stuff), but that's mostly because it's not needed.

   MetaCard has its own mechanism for XCMDs and XFCNs which is nothing
like that in HyperCard. I presume that stayed the same for RunRev.

   However, note that it's not possible to mix and match architectures
in a single application on Mac OS X. So, you can't load a PowerPC
XCMD into a native Intel application, or one built for Classic under
Carbon/OS X. But that's true for all kinds of application plug-ins,
not just for those in SuperCard or MetaCard/RunRev. So, you will
definitely have to recompile your externals using the original source
code, or find a replacement that's been compiled for the platform
you're running on.

> I like the vision revolution puts forth with cross platform
> operation and connection into the internet (my wife/son use WINTELs
> so I can export my creativity to their machines).  The script line:
> put URL "address" into x; is an attractive command; I have solved
> this issue using applescript to MS explorer, but it appears
> Revolution is better integrated with WWW developments, operating
> systems, XML etc.

   AFAIK AppleScript can even directly download data from URLs without
going through Explorer or whatever. And while SC's AppleScript
support isn't as nice as that in HyperCard (it's basically an
AppleScript XCMD rolled into the application), AppleScript *is*
supported.

> I do feel burned by apple with respect to their handling of HC over
> the years (clairis) and the more recent intel powerbook  dropping
> classic. Screw me once shame on apple, screw me twice ....  Don't
> get me wrong, I love my mac and have used apple products
> exclusively since 1981, but going into the future for the next 50
> years (looking at my son's future as well), I suspect I want to
> migrate towards platform independence.

   Apple had announced that Classic MacOS would be dropped sooner or
later, and the switch to Intel was the sensible point in time to do
that. Porting Classic to run emulated in Rosetta on Intel would have
been a huge task for very little gain. If you're against the Intel
move per se, I can understand that, but considering OS X has matured
and we're switching to Intel, keeping Classic would have been a bad
business decision.

> I noticed revolution uses PHP to set up their website, wonder why
> they simply didn't make their stacks available. Too Slow?

   That probably, and I'd guess they want people to be able to visit
the site and see all the stuff even if they haven't bought RunRev (yet).

> I have a set of bench marks I run to evaluate new macs before I
> upgrade my hardware;  I think I will try moving my home  and bench
> marking stack over to revolution first then try supercard.

   Just keep in mind that each has ways to "properly do" something.
E.g. RunRev has lots of special optimised variants of repeat to speed
up certain kinds of loops etc.

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

Am 13.08.2006 um 16:54 schrieb Isaac Raway:
> neither should PythonCard: both are inspired by (in different
> ways), but can't possibly replace HyperCard.
   PythonCard has Dan Winkler working on it, whom most of you will
probably know as the author of HyperTalk. But apart from that, it's
really just an object layer for Python.
> I would say Revolution is your best bet if you want cross platform.
> It's an ...interesting...environment. Honestly, to me it has always
> felt a little buggy. One possibility that I enjoyed playing with a
> bit better was the MetaCard IDE running on top of the Revolution
> core. You might want to look into that.
   My general impression of MC is that it's very unixy. It has a lot
of power, but also can be rather cryptic and confusing. Also, it
doesn't support many Mac-specific features since it wants its stacks
to run cross-platform. They mainly support the stuff that makes sense
on all platforms only.
> If you're going Mac only, then SuperCard is probably worth trying.
> I haven't tried it, but it looks like it has a bit more stable
> interface. In Revolution, I always felt like I was playing with a
> prototype.
   Apart from being the most Mac-like of the bunch (and the first
HyperCard clone), SuperCard also has a very dedicated developer
working on it, and a great community. Disclaimer: I recently got to
meet the developer, Mark Lucas. So I may be taken in by his personality.
> Actually that's one big point of contention I have with many
> systems that claim to be HyperCard "clones" or inspired by
> HyperCard. In many cases they have no even remotely similar
> database system. Without that, it's just another RAD tool with an
> xTalk, and if that is what people think HyperCard was, then they
> really never understood it. It's a database. I think there are few
> people who remember it, because there are few people who got that.
> Friendly language + simple DB + friendly GUI = magic.
   SuperCard basically kept the object model, extending it by multiple
windows. Though it's only one developer (plus a few dedicated users
helping out occasionally), so don't expect miracles... well, not yet,
anyway. They have a demo, I suggest you just try it out.

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

 -----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Meader
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:15 PM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sphere_project] Isaacs proposal

So what syntax would you use, if not xTalk?

 

I assume you get a scripting language parser that already exists and is Open Source, or otherwise freely available.

 

I can think of several options:

1. Javascript (ECMAscript)

2. BASIC (a BASIC with the ability to reference objects e.g. VBscript)

3. Python

4. TCL

5. ???

 

Another alternative is to use RealBasic to implement a HC UI and DB for stacks and then use its built-in RBscript capablility to provide on-the-fly scripting. http://www.applelinks.com/rbu/071/

This is attractive because RealBasic supports objects pretty well and creates cross-platform GUI apps that run on Mac, Win and Linux.

I see difficulties in gracefully handling scripting errors though.

 

> That project fell apart because I wrote it in VB 6, no one was interested in it, and I made some big mistakes early in it's database's design.

 

Perhaps some of your VB6 code would be easily ported to RealBasic.

 

---

From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Isaac Raway
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:34 AM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sphere_project] WildFire/Sphere Project Archive

 

 

 

To sum it up, the goals for a project I'd be involved in would be:

 

    * User accessible

    * UI / simple syntax blended scripting

    * Very fast interface prototyping

    * Fast database backend: backgrounds are tables (or close to them, perhaps an abstraction on top of the real tables)

    * Same functionality on Mac and Windows (who cares what you use?)

 

---

-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:46 PM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!

Thanks for the link, Isaac. I have downloaded it and will check
it out. It was Jonathyn who started the thread with this
subject. Sorry :-)

Best,

Mark

Isaac Raway wrote:
> By the way, did I really use that subject line? Heh. Wow.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Isaac Raway
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 6:56 PM
> To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!
>
>
> Yes.
> 
> http://www.blueapples.org/software/InstallShortDeck.exe
> 
> Really bad stuff, this is the broken VB 6 code. Don't store anything
> important in it: it will die eventually, and no I have no idea why.
<snip>

--

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mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

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Thanks for the link, Isaac. I have downloaded it and will check
it out. It was Jonathyn who started the thread with this
subject. Sorry :-)

Best,

Mark

Isaac Raway wrote:
> By the way, did I really use that subject line? Heh. Wow.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Isaac Raway
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 6:56 PM
> To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!
>
>
> Yes.
>
> http://www.blueapples.org/software/InstallShortDeck.exe
>
> Really bad stuff, this is the broken VB 6 code. Don't store anything
> important in it: it will die eventually, and no I have no idea why.
<snip>

--

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mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Isaac Raway
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 6:56 PM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!

Yes.

 

http://www.blueapples.org/software/InstallShortDeck.exe

 

Really bad stuff, this is the broken VB 6 code. Don't store anything important in it: it will die eventually, and no I have no idea why.

 

I also have a project called "Bolder" which was rewritten from the ground up in Delphi. This project was somewhat replaced by another of mine StoneNotes (stonenotes.com) which shares some very general concepts but which is more oriented around real hypertext.

 

Bolder broke down a bit too because of some design issues (surprise, surprise), but it is still salvageable. I just need to devote some time to doing it. I will find the last build and wrap it up for download tonight or tomorrow. It's much better than ShortDeck ever got to.

 

Isaac

-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 3:00 PM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!

Do you still have this, Isaac?

Mark

Isaac Raway wrote:
> Hey, I don't remember if I introduced myself before or not.
>
> Anyway, I have experience in VB, Delphi, PHP, MySQL, and some /Visual/
> C++ (among other things, but those are the big ones).
>
> I have created a few different projects based on HyperCard-like
> concepts. One such program is now available on my site actually:
> http://blueapples.org/shortdeck.html
>

--

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Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet
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-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schonewille
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 3:00 PM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sphere_project] Whaaaaazzzzzuuup!!!

Do you still have this, Isaac?

Mark

Isaac Raway wrote:
> Hey, I don't remember if I introduced myself before or not.
>
> Anyway, I have experience in VB, Delphi, PHP, MySQL, and some /Visual/
> C++ (among other things, but those are the big ones).
>
> I have created a few different projects based on HyperCard-like
> concepts. One such program is now available on my site actually:
> http://blueapples.org/shortdeck.html
>

--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

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Do you still have this, Isaac?

Mark

Isaac Raway wrote:
> Hey, I don't remember if I introduced myself before or not.
>
> Anyway, I have experience in VB, Delphi, PHP, MySQL, and some /Visual/
> C++ (among other things, but those are the big ones).
>
> I have created a few different projects based on HyperCard-like
> concepts. One such program is now available on my site actually:
> http://blueapples.org/shortdeck.html
>

--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe@...
http://www.ehug.info

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Hi Isaac,

Thanks for contributing to the discussion. Although I don't
quite agree with you, I really appreciate it. It is great to see
this group coming alive again. (BTW, I very much hope for
another life sign from Tyler :-) )

Isaac Raway wrote:
> This is all really too bad...
>
> But I have to just get something out because it's been bothering me for
> a long time...when I first heard of this project and tried to get
> involved, it all just seemed far too complicated. Focused a bit too much
> on theory and parsers and nonsense, instead of making a working package.
>
> A committed group of 5 people could have a working HyperCard clone in 7
> working days. I know because in just a bit more time (maybe 3 weeks) I

You mean a HyperCard clone including a HyperTalk compiler,
right? Problem with this kind of claims is that you never know
whether they are true, until it has been done.

> created a functional one on my own. The only thing it lacked was an
> xTalk but that isn't as critical as the environment (linking dialogs &
> simplified scripting UIs can provide the same benefits as xTalk but are
> easier to code).

I did that too, a long time ago, using ZBasic. Maybe not a
complete clone, but it had cards, buttons and fields and one
could browse the cards. It took me an afternoon to get it done,
but for some reason I never started with a HyperTalk compiler.

> That project fell apart because I wrote it in VB 6, no one was
> interested in it, and I made some big mistakes early in it's database's
> design.

I believe the same happened with the WF/Spere project, but the
guys were brave enough to start again, and again, and I believe
even a third time. I really Tyler and Jonathyn for that.

> I think that if a project was started with a few guidelines in place it
> would be a bit more successful:
>
>     * Use a portable database library like SQLite. In fact, just use
> SQLite. It's the answer: relational binary portability on many
> platforms. An object database would be nice but coding one on top of
> SQLite isn't that hard.

Here, you are making exactly the same mistake that you reproach
the lead programmers of this project with. Why SQLite?!!! Of all
possible alternatives, this would be the last I would think of.
I'm sure it is based on some nice well-founded theory, but here
we're not to test theories.

>     * Create a UI when a scripting language is too complex or time
> consuming to write.

This is not the goal of this project.

>     * Use a simple XML based scripting language like Radio UserLand's
> stuff. Don't need to write a very complex parser (just a bit of
> expression magic in the lines themselves, all the block type stuff is
> taken care of by the elements), provide an outline based script editor,
> and you're "done". (It isn't really that simple obviously but it's
> easier than writing an xTalk.)

This is not the goal of this project.

>     * Make it actually work first (starting with simpler stacks such as
> an address book, help library, picture gallery, etc.), then add the
> other stuff.

That's what they do here.

>     * Put it all in one executable.

I guess that's what is aimed at, but if it is impractible, I
really don't mind having a software package that consists of
several components. Like HyperCard.

>     * Make it run on Windows and Mac.

Well, let's try to get something running on either one of them,
first.

> Just my two cents. At any rate, I will be working on a project like this
> at some point in the distant future.

That's sounds very interesting. Does it include a HyperTalk
compiler? Even if not, I'd still be very interested in the
development of any new RAD tool. Please keep me, or us, informed.

I'd like to add some comments on my own position in this matter.
To me, it seems that this project makes very slow progress,
which I regret very much. First of all, if Tyler and Jonathyn
have any idea about how I could help to speed up development,
let me know. It is just that I have little time, being
repsonsible for several project being developed by
Economy-x-Talk. I should be able to spend an hour on WF/Sphere
every now and then, though, as long as you don't ask me to code
in C++.

Also, if this were a commercial project and there were a way to
claim a percentage of the revenues, I would be glad to co-invest
in this project and help marketing it. So, if Jonathyn and Tyler
ever change their mind, we could remove the open-source tag and
find ways to finance it.

Best,

Mark

--

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mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

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Hi,

I don't think this is a relevant discussion. Also see my other
post in the "Another offshoot idea - use Web 2.0 technology" thread.

Best,

Mark

Glenn Meader wrote:
> So what syntax would you use, if not xTalk?
>

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Hi,

The whole point of this project is to write a *real* HyperCard
clone rather than a tool that is more or less similar. There are
tools like Revolution, SuperCard and RealBasic, you might even
include iShell, Flash, FileMaker and, if you really want it,
Visual Basic, which can do what HyperCard can, more or less. So,
there is no need for yet another database/rad/multimedia
card-ish tool.

There is a need for a tool that read HyperCard stacks and runs
them like you're still working in the same old HyperCard you
have always worked with.

Best,

Mark

Glenn Meader wrote:
> "WebCard"
>
> Another idea is to build a HC-like tool/application based on existing
> Web/HTML infrastructure.
--

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-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathynne Bett'ncort
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:06 AM
To: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sphere_project] WildFire/Sphere Project Archive

On 5/21/06, Isaac Raway <isaac@...> wrote:
> This  is all really too bad...
>
> But I  have to just get something out because it's been bothering me
> for a long  time...when I first heard of this project and tried to get
> involved, it all just  seemed far too complicated. Focused a bit too
> much on theory and parsers and  nonsense, instead of making a
> working package.
>
> A  committed group of 5 people could have a working HyperCard
> clone in 7  working days. I know because in just a bit more time
> (maybe 3 weeks) I created a  functional one on my own. The only
> thing it lacked was an xTalk but that isn't  as critical as the
> environment (linking dialogs & simplified scripting UIs  can provide
> the same benefits as xTalk but are easier to  code).

I agree with you that without an xTalk, it wouldn't take too long to
create a HyperCard clone. I very much doubt it could be created in a
week, though. However, an xTalk is essential to a HyperCard clone;
it's what makes it different from Visual Basic, RealBasic, Interface
Builder, Revolution, etc. The xTalk is at least as critical as the
environment.

Also, you underestimate how complicated it is to parse HyperTalk, just
like we did before we started. As an example, this is completely valid
syntax:

add char word to char of word char of char to word word to char of
line char of cd fld word

You cannot make the parser simple and compatible with HyperTalk at the
same time. This was the big road block Tyler and I ran into.

--
Hasta la pasta,
Jonathynne Bett'ncort.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

"I could counter with the fact that a disproportionate number of TG
women I know are computer programmers. ::grin:: In fact, there's a
joke going around that says exposure to computer screens causes
transsexuality." -- Kate Bornstein

On 5/21/06, Isaac Raway <isaac@...> wrote:
> This  is all really too bad...
>
> But I  have to just get something out because it's been bothering me
> for a long  time...when I first heard of this project and tried to get
> involved, it all just  seemed far too complicated. Focused a bit too
> much on theory and parsers and  nonsense, instead of making a
> working package.
>
> A  committed group of 5 people could have a working HyperCard
> clone in 7  working days. I know because in just a bit more time
> (maybe 3 weeks) I created a  functional one on my own. The only
> thing it lacked was an xTalk but that isn't  as critical as the
> environment (linking dialogs & simplified scripting UIs  can provide
> the same benefits as xTalk but are easier to  code).

I agree with you that without an xTalk, it wouldn't take too long to
create a HyperCard clone. I very much doubt it could be created in a
week, though. However, an xTalk is essential to a HyperCard clone;
it's what makes it different from Visual Basic, RealBasic, Interface
Builder, Revolution, etc. The xTalk is at least as critical as the
environment.

Also, you underestimate how complicated it is to parse HyperTalk, just
like we did before we started. As an example, this is completely valid
syntax:

add char word to char of word char of char to word word to char of
line char of cd fld word

You cannot make the parser simple and compatible with HyperTalk at the
same time. This was the big road block Tyler and I ran into.

--
Hasta la pasta,
Jonathynne Bett'ncort.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

"I could counter with the fact that a disproportionate number of TG
women I know are computer programmers. ::grin:: In fact, there's a
joke going around that says exposure to computer screens causes
transsexuality." -- Kate Bornstein

-----Original Message-----
From: sphere_project@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sphere_project@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathynne Bett'ncort
Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:55 PM
To: HyperCard List; WildFire List
Subject: [sphere_project] WildFire/Sphere Project Archive

Someone brought to my attention the fact that the Sphere
Project/WildFire-related downloads on the HyperCard Pantechnicon have
long since gone all brokey. What a sad state of affairs. It occurred
to me that it's very possible our work might eventually be lost. So
I've created an archive of everything related to Sphere Project,
WildFire, CHASM, RealHyperCard, etc. I could find on my hard drive,
old or new:

http://www.kreativekorp.com/swdownload/wildfire/

Anybody who feels like digging through there, feel free. Have fun. :)

--
Hasta la pasta,
Jonathynne Bett'ncort.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

"I could counter with the fact that a disproportionate number of TG
women I know are computer programmers. ::grin:: In fact, there's a
joke going around that says exposure to computer screens causes
transsexuality." -- Kate Bornstein

Someone brought to my attention the fact that the Sphere
Project/WildFire-related downloads on the HyperCard Pantechnicon have
long since gone all brokey. What a sad state of affairs. It occurred
to me that it's very possible our work might eventually be lost. So
I've created an archive of everything related to Sphere Project,
WildFire, CHASM, RealHyperCard, etc. I could find on my hard drive,
old or new:

http://www.kreativekorp.com/swdownload/wildfire/

Anybody who feels like digging through there, feel free. Have fun. :)

--
Hasta la pasta,
Jonathynne Bett'ncort.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

"I could counter with the fact that a disproportionate number of TG
women I know are computer programmers. ::grin:: In fact, there's a
joke going around that says exposure to computer screens causes
transsexuality." -- Kate Bornstein

Hey Tyler!

I'm completely baffled by your sudden appearence. Great to have
a life sign from you. I'm sorry about the accident,
congratulations with your engagement --you're still engaged now,
aren't you? ;-) Also congratulations with your new company. C0an
you tell something about it?

I have a feeling that this project would have more chances to
being successful, if it were commercial. How do you
realistically estimate the probability of having a funcional HC
clone within, say, three years, if it stays an open-source project?

Best,

Mark



creysoft wrote:
> Hi, Mark.
>
> I'm very much alive. I've been working more than full time for the last year
or so, plus
> getting in car accidents, getting engaged, and ultimately quitting work to
start my own
> company.
>
> PXI/Wildfire is still very near and dear to my heart. I remember how I used to
get so upset
> when volunteer programmers would let their projects languish due to "being
busy," and
> now I finally know how they feel. I still plan to continue work on PXI, and
Jon has indicated
> to me that he would like to finish it as well... someday.
>
> Until we have some talented, dedicated programmers to work on this, not much
is going
> to happen to it. The source code is available at
http://www.creysoft.com/xtalk. I upgraded
> my hosting last year, and never bothered to upload the main site. I've
recently updated it
> to redirect to the OSXIA.
>
> Sorry to just disappear like I did. Things got really hectic, really quickly.
Anyway, if anyone
> wants to volunteer to do a part of the project, let me know. The source code's
available.
> We need a nice, programmable API for doing GUI work in Cocoa. If anyone can
give me one
> of those, I'll commit to finishing the interpreter. :D
>
> Talk to y'all later,
>
>  - Tyler
>
> P.S. Everything's MIT licensed, so if you want to use what we have in your own
projects, or
> start a new project based on PXI, feel free.
>

--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe@...
http://www.ehug.info

Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet
users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html
for more information.

Hi, Mark.

I'm very much alive. I've been working more than full time for the last year or
so, plus
getting in car accidents, getting engaged, and ultimately quitting work to start
my own
company.

PXI/Wildfire is still very near and dear to my heart. I remember how I used to
get so upset
when volunteer programmers would let their projects languish due to "being
busy," and
now I finally know how they feel. I still plan to continue work on PXI, and Jon
has indicated
to me that he would like to finish it as well... someday.

Until we have some talented, dedicated programmers to work on this, not much is
going
to happen to it. The source code is available at http://www.creysoft.com/xtalk.
I upgraded
my hosting last year, and never bothered to upload the main site. I've recently
updated it
to redirect to the OSXIA.

Sorry to just disappear like I did. Things got really hectic, really quickly.
Anyway, if anyone
wants to volunteer to do a part of the project, let me know. The source code's
available.
We need a nice, programmable API for doing GUI work in Cocoa. If anyone can give
me one
of those, I'll commit to finishing the interpreter. :D

Talk to y'all later,

  - Tyler

P.S. Everything's MIT licensed, so if you want to use what we have in your own
projects, or
start a new project based on PXI, feel free.

--- In sphere_project@yahoogroups.com, Mark Schonewille <mark.sch@...> wrote:
>
> So, What happened? It appears that the website
>
> <http://www.creysoft.com>
>
> is down. Does it mean that this project is completely dead and
> gone? What exactly happened to Tyler? Did he abandon computers
> altogether? I can't find any info about him for the past six
> months. Did he got captured by aliens, or what?
>
> I very much would appreciate an official word from those on who
> worked on the project and a serious proposal on how to get this
> project going again, whatever it takes. Let me know the
> possibilities.
>
> Mark
>
> --
>
> Consultant and Software Engineer
> mailto:m.schonewille@...
> http://www.economy-x-talk.com
>
> eHUG coordinator
> mailto:europe@...
> http://www.ehug.info
>
> Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet
> users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html
> for more information.
>

So, What happened? It appears that the website

<http://www.creysoft.com>

is down. Does it mean that this project is completely dead and
gone? What exactly happened to Tyler? Did he abandon computers
altogether? I can't find any info about him for the past six
months. Did he got captured by aliens, or what?

I very much would appreciate an official word from those on who
worked on the project and a serious proposal on how to get this
project going again, whatever it takes. Let me know the
possibilities.

Mark

--

Consultant and Software Engineer
mailto:m.schonewille@...
http://www.economy-x-talk.com

eHUG coordinator
mailto:europe@...
http://www.ehug.info

Advertise with us and reach 1000 truely interested internet
users every month. See http://economy-x-talk.com/advertise.html
for more information.

Am 02.04.2006 um 03:28 schrieb nxnw:
> Ha.
>
> Ha.

   I should have added a message box... would've made it so much more
realistic... but then April 1st would have been over :-)

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

Am 02.04.2006 um 04:04 schrieb Jonathynne Bett'ncort:
>> On 1-Apr-06, at 2:00 PM, witness_of_teachtext wrote:
>>
>> http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-freecard-technology-preview.htm
>>
>>  Surprised me a bit,
>
> Wait a minute....
>
> Darn you!!

   :-) It's a fun app, though, isn't it? One can wallow in nostalgia...

Cheers,
-- M. Uli Kusterer
http://www.zathras.de

> On 1-Apr-06, at 2:00 PM, witness_of_teachtext wrote:
>
> http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-freecard-technology-preview.htm
>
>  Surprised me a bit,

Wait a minute....

Darn you!!

XP

--
Hasta la pasta,
Jonathynne Bett'ncort.
------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the real world once; didn't really care for it.

Beth: Lisa, all dogs are boys, all cats are girls. Is that right, Max?
Max: Exactly.
Lisa: Well, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but Daisy is
obviously, and I mean obviously, a girl.
Max: Oh we're not disputing that. It's not a question of sex, but of gender.
Lisa: Sex and gender are the same thing.
Max: Uh, not so. I would much rather have sex than gender.
Lisa: Since you have neither that must be very sad for you.