Re: [squeak-dev] Re: [Release] The role of Bob, Installer & Co.
On Sun, Jul 05, 2009 at 07:46:14AM -0700, Andreas Raab wrote:
> Keith Hodges wrote:
>
> >The image will probably be a bit unstable for a bit, but we cant go to
> >the extent of breaking it ever, because we are not distibuting a new
> >image, just updates, everything must continue to work seamlessly.
>
> Not necessarily. If there is a need to distribute a new image, we can
> certainly do that. I'm just not in favor of requiring a new image any
> time you want to do anything.
I want to mention that from the point of view of someone who maintains
external packages, it is *hugely* helpful to me to have the update
stream in addition to complete images. I've been maintaining some of
these packages for a long time, so I speak from experience and it
matters a lot to me.
Before: The procedure for 3.10 was - upload your fix to mantis and it will be integrated by the build server whose name used to be Edgar, but is now Bob. i.e....
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 4, 2009 10:43 pm
... Bob does not "design images". neither do you ... You want every contribution to have to flow thru the bottleneck of mantis? So, instead of 1. fix a bug 2....
Matthew Fulmer
tapplek@...
Jul 4, 2009 11:17 pm
Hmm. What keith is saying is something I wrote, with his help, 9 months ago: http://installer.pbworks.com/Squeak311Proposal I have to decide if I still agree...
Matthew Fulmer
tapplek@...
Jul 4, 2009 11:45 pm
... I write a task which specifies in code what the design of the output image is to be. What packages are loaded what packages are unloaded and what classes...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 12:58 am
... I have made the code available. Any other fork can quickly and easily see and load just my changes by pressing the MERGE button, if Monticello were being...
Matthew Fulmer
tapplek@...
Jul 5, 2009 1:47 am
... 1. You are assuming that the packages have the same boundaries. So for example in 3.11 the tests would be in a different package to the main code. In older...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 3:12 am
****Randal accused me of not delivering anything in a year. 3 years ago can you remember how hard it was to cleanUp an image? Now it is easy, and it works for...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 4:17 am
... Keith> ****Randal accused me of not delivering anything in a year. Please stop lying about me. No *release* in a year is not the same as "not delivering...
Randal L. Schwartz
merlyn@...
Jul 5, 2009 4:28 am
... Really, the fundamental idea of the proposal to have a shared repository where I can collaborate with other Squeak developers on core packages. ... ...
Andreas Raab
andreas.raab@...
Jul 5, 2009 2:47 pm
... I want to mention that from the point of view of someone who maintains external packages, it is *hugely* helpful to me to have the update stream in...
David T. Lewis
lewis@...
Jul 5, 2009 4:37 pm
... Thats what Bob is for. Bob will keep continuously building and testing your package into all images that you want to maintain it in. It will also allow...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 6:35 pm
... Yes, I understand. I'm speaking about my own experience. I am an individual contributor working with a small laptop computer supporting a number of...
David T. Lewis
lewis@...
Jul 5, 2009 8:34 pm
... Use a cron task... Sake has Sake-Scheduler, but with cron you dont even have to run an image. You really dont get it do you... If I publish a bit of...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 6:49 pm
... I think that's pretty obvious by now, isn't it. What I'm trying to do is to enable developers to work together. I can't possibly imagine why anyone would...
Andreas Raab
andreas.raab@...
Jul 6, 2009 1:01 am
... I think you guys are at cross purposes here. Andreas is trying to minimize the overhead of contributing to the squeak.org distribution of Squeak. Keith is...
Colin Putney
cputney@...
Jul 6, 2009 6:17 am
... Exactly, I wish I could have put it so succinctly. every contribution you make to your fork without offering it to other forks makes it difficult for them...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 6, 2009 12:24 pm
... I should take the same road wiser Squeaker take before. I also feels "kicked in the ass without any good reasons" where I was the facto fired from Release...
Edgar J. De Cleene
edgardec2001@...
Jul 6, 2009 1:48 pm
Guys, i can only welcome to see more such discussions, where you trying to sort things out & between different points of view find something on which you can...
Igor Stasenko
siguctua@...
Jul 6, 2009 1:53 pm
... Interesting point Colin. Then, the discussion should be about this. At a first view seems really very difficult to take care of ALL the forks (In terms of ...
Germán Arduino
garduino@...
Jul 6, 2009 12:50 pm
... Colin> I think you guys are at cross purposes here. Andreas is trying to Colin> minimize the overhead of contributing to the squeak.org distribution of ...
Randal L. Schwartz
merlyn@...
Jul 6, 2009 2:21 pm
... There never has been a barrier to making contributions. The barrier has been in having contributions accepted into the core by the guru/bottleneck in...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 6, 2009 6:00 pm
... Keith i putting my +100 under the above. Your framework allows us (community) to build & evolve Squeak using maximum inclusive fashion ever possible...
Igor Stasenko
siguctua@...
Jul 6, 2009 6:35 pm
(repost in correct thread - sorry for the confusion) Igor, thanks for that, I still think we will get there in the end. ... communicate in a friendlier medium...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 6, 2009 8:00 pm
... Not at all. You the community, pick the release designer, the team leader. The team leader sets the goals, "right we are going to load all the collections...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 5, 2009 1:27 am
I would like to present my sincere congratulations to Keith for continuing to talk sense against all odds, in presenting the Squeak community with such a well...
Ken G. Brown
kbrown@...
Jul 6, 2009 9:37 pm
... Ken, I appreciate you providing your point of view but I have to ask you how you have actively participated in the development of 3.11. I ask this not...
Ken Causey
ken@...
Jul 6, 2009 9:59 pm
... Why thank you Ken G Brown, ... in answer to SOB Ken Ken G. Brown has followed our progress as a casual but interested observer. He did take the time to...
Keith Hodges
keith_hodges@...
Jul 7, 2009 1:15 am
See comments interspersed below. ... Lets be clear right at the start here, this is not about my contributions or lack thereof. However, I've worked with...
Ken G. Brown
kbrown@...
Jul 6, 2009 10:54 pm
... Well, other's opinion may be different - I see a lot of discussion on this topic here :) . From my perspective, a majority elected the board, I expect the...
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