It's been fun meeting with you all, especially before Library Ltd closed (no
place else has the same cozy atmosphere).  However, my wife and I decided to
move back to the east coast.  I've found a permanent position at Ahold
Information Services in Greenville, SC.  I started last Monday.  I'm back in
St. Louis from now until Wednesday night, teaching my last class at CAIT.

Greenville seems like a great town, near the beginning of its growth curve.
I'm an hour from the mountains and 3 1/2 hours from the beach.  Greenville
County has more engineers per capita than any other county in the US!

If any of you are looking for a house, mine goes on the market this week.
It's a 3 bedroom (+bonus room), 3 bath (plus bath & shower in basement),
all-brick house with hardwood floors on main level.  It's in a wonderful
quiet neighborhood across the street from UMSL.   Please visit
http://www.hofflergroup.com/house/ for pictures.

John Hoffler
President, The Hoffler Group, Inc.
jhoffler@...
http://www.hofflergroup.com
President, BDPA-St. Louis
president@...
http://www.bdpa-stl.org
mobile: 314-239-2530

From: "Patrick K. O'Brien" <pobrien@...>

> Lambdas in Python are really best avoided. Guido wishes he'd never
allowed
> them to be added to the language. They just aren't robust enough and
no
> suitable replacement has been proposed. But the fact is most people
can live
> without anonymous code blocks, no matter how cool a feature they might
be.

This is probably the biggest cultural difference between Python and
Ruby.  Python is for people happier living without anonymous code codes.
Ruby is for people that say "finally!  a language with decent anonymous
code blocks like Smalltalk and Lisp have had forever!"

I'm more in the latter group than the former, I confess.  I am annoyed
daily that Java has such an ugly syntax for code blocks, and Delphi
lacks any way to create them at all.  I find it bothers me much less in
Python, because it takes so little syntax in Python to create another
class or function.

> > They are both much more productive than Java or C++. I just wish
more
> > of our clients used either of them :)

> I agree again. So what can we do about that? Any interest in working

I think Python, Ruby, etc. are used quite a bit more for internal
projects, server-side-only code, etc. (hidden from "public" view inside
or outside the organization) than in visible project.  The challenge is
to expand this in to more public projects.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

[Brian Button]
>
> Both languages would be ideal if someone would write a refactoring
> browser for them, like Smalltalk has. In fact, and entire IDE like
> what Smalltalk has would be great, and get a lot more of its features
> available for more programmers. Manual refactoring just sucks when it
> can be automated.

There actually is a refactoring tool for Python called Bicycle Repair Man
(one of the better Monty Python puns). The project languished for a while
but has recently been renewed. I haven't had time to look at it yet, but
I've heard good things about the recent versions. At the same time, I don't
think Python will ever come close to becoming something like the Smalltalk
environment.

http://bicyclerepair.sourceforge.net/

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------
Web:  http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
Blog: http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
Wiki: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien
-----------------------------------------------

From: "Patrick K. O'Brien" <pobrien@...>

> > Can you compare Ruby and Python? I've used them both, and I think I
> > prefer Ruby. It has a better syntax and everything is an object. And
I

> Ruby certainly has lots of appeal. I couldn't do a fair comparison
because I
> only looked at it briefly after I was already using Python for a
while. I

I can do a bit of a comparison, having used Python quite a bit and Ruby
a little.  Ruby seems a bit more esoteric than Python, with the ability
to arbitrarily add or change methods on any class, including built in
classes.  Ruby has some interesting "syntax" features which are actually
not syntax, they are just method calls... which is very clever.  Ruby
has many Perlisms, which is a good thing if you have a lot of Perl
knowledge, perhaps not so good if you don't.

> Ruby has a few
> nice syntax features, but I don't find their lacking in Python to be a
> roadblock for anything I've wanted to do.

Code blocks (functions as a first class objects) are a very good thing,
and the Ruby implementation of them is convenient, though not quite a
pure as it could be (i.e., the fact that a code block go along with a
method call as a "magic" extra parameter, not as an ordinary parameter,
so you can't pass two of them).  A code block is not an object, though
it can be wrapped in a Proc object.

> And while Ruby does have a
> slightly cleaner object model, everything in Python is an object as
well.
> Python just has some historical warts that are gradually being
removed. But

Right, Python has had a lot of "issues" removed over the last few
versions.  For a long time, not everything was an object.


> > OTOH**2, I've been able to be very productive in both languages very
> > quickly. Damn the compilers!!! Gimme a dynamically typed language
and
> > TDD any day!

> Exactly. I get more done in Python and I do things I would never have
even
> considered doing in another language. In fact, one of my very first
Python

I agree strongly that dynamically typed, interactive languages are a
very good thing.  (However, I also don't think that this is incompatible
with compiling for more efficient execution.)

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

[Brian Button]
>
> The best thing that I can do in Ruby that I can't really do in python
> is to pass around code as parameters to functions.

Yeah. This is true. In Python you have do create a function first. Since
creating a function is relatively trivial, this doesn't bother me that much.

> But the point is that it reduces the amount of code you need to write
> to get additional functionality. Instead of writing a function to
> allow you to pass a name into another function, you can just pass an
> anonymous block. I was able to do something like that in Python,
> passing a lamba to a function, but getting parameters into the lambda
> expression was pretty tough.

Lambdas in Python are really best avoided. Guido wishes he'd never allowed
them to be added to the language. They just aren't robust enough and no
suitable replacement has been proposed. But the fact is most people can live
without anonymous code blocks, no matter how cool a feature they might be.

Everything is a trade-off. Python tends to be more conservative than Ruby, I
believe. I've heard complaints that Ruby suffers a bit from the
more-than-one-way-to-do-it quality that Perl folks like so much. I'm much
too anal for that, myself. I like having one way (or relatively few ways) to
get the job done, as long as I can get the job done quickly, easily and
maintainably. The result is less to remember and less trouble reading other
people's code.

> They are both much more productive than Java or C++. I just wish more
> of our clients used either of them :)

I agree again. So what can we do about that? Any interest in working
together on a presentation or workshop for your clients? I'm working on
course material for a Python workshop and I'd be more than happy to figure
out some mutually beneficial arrangement. Just let me know if you have any
interest.

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------
Web:  http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
Blog: http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
Wiki: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien
-----------------------------------------------

From: "Patrick K. O'Brien" <pobrien@...>

> > I think I've seen your name around the Gateway JUG.
>
> Trying to stir up interest in Jython, an implementation of the Python
> language in Java, which allows you to access Java classes/objects from

I keep meaning to look at Jython myself.  .NET may inspire an era of
greater considersation of alternative languages, as people realize that
they can run mulitple languages under the JVM just as under the CLR.

> > I know very little about Python and would love to hear more about
> > it.  Maybe we could resurrect the group at some point in
Sept(Getting

> Definitely. Anyone else on the list interested in Python? Anyone else
using
> it?

I am both interested in it and and using it in an application for a
customer.


> Python has many strong points. Some are more subjective than others. A
few
> are somewhat controversial. I have a Python advocacy page at

Here are some of the things I like about Python:

* Very clean syntax, almost no overhead

* Dynamic typing

* Easy to create additional classes and methods, because of so little
overhear in the syntax

* Thus, very amenable to refactoring

* The whitespace-based block structure appeals to me because it
eliminates the duplication of information between { } and indention.
I'm not sure I would want all languages to be this way; this is a highly
contentious feature.  I find that I can avoid the potential downsides of
this by keeping methods short and thus not deeply indented... which I
would do anyway.

* Rich, reasonably mature libraries.  Not nearly as much as Perl, but
moreso than Ruby, and the documentation is nearly all in English :-)

* Reasonably large developer community

* Widely deployed in the Linux world, many Linux distributions include
it by default

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

>>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick K O'Brien <pobrien@...> writes:

     Patrick> [Brian Button]
     >>
     >> Can you compare Ruby and Python? I've used them both, and I
     >> think I prefer Ruby. It has a better syntax and everything is
     >> an object. And I love passing around anonymous code
     >> blocks. OTOH, Python is more mature, and has more supporting
     >> libraries and APIs.

     Patrick> Ruby certainly has lots of appeal. I couldn't do a fair
     Patrick> comparison because I only looked at it briefly after I
     Patrick> was already using Python for a while. I think your
     Patrick> description is a good summary of what I've heard. Ruby
     Patrick> has a few nice syntax features, but I don't find their
     Patrick> lacking in Python to be a roadblock for anything I've
     Patrick> wanted to do.

The best thing that I can do in Ruby that I can't really do in python
is to pass around code as parameters to functions. You can write
things like:

myArray.each { |e| print e }

(my syntax may be off, as I haven't look at ruby for a few months, and
that may have a little smalltalk in there as well :))

But the point is that it reduces the amount of code you need to write
to get additional functionality. Instead of writing a function to
allow you to pass a name into another function, you can just pass an
anonymous block. I was able to do something like that in Python,
passing a lamba to a function, but getting parameters into the lambda
expression was pretty tough.

This is my favorite feature of the language. OTOH, I've only really
learned the parts of the language that have parallels to C++/Java. I
know there are more interesting parts of it out there, but I haven't
had the opportunity to explore them.

     Patrick> The other item to consider is community. Both Python and
     Patrick> Ruby have very strong communities with approachable
     Patrick> leaders. But Matz (or Mats or ???) is in Japan (right?)
     Patrick> while Guido van Rossum (Python language creator) is here
     Patrick> in the States. At the O'Reilly Open Souce Convention last
     Patrick> week I had breakfast with Guido for about an hour and a
     Patrick> half, just he and I, discussing Python. What other
     Patrick> language could you say that about? I can't.

I can't argue with that :)

     Patrick> Exactly. I get more done in Python and I do things I
     Patrick> would never have even considered doing in another
     Patrick> language.

Both languages would be ideal if someone would write a refactoring
browser for them, like Smalltalk has. In fact, and entire IDE like
what Smalltalk has would be great, and get a lot more of its features
available for more programmers. Manual refactoring just sucks when it
can be automated.

     Patrick> So, in what ways are you using Ruby and Python?

I've written a couple apps in each language. My biggest one in Python
was to convert a makefile system under Solaris from an old version to
a new one. There were 4 or 5 different kinds of makefiles in the
system, and over 1000 makefiles total. Instead of converting things by
hand, I wrote a program in Python that figured out what kind of
makefile it was, and converted it from the old format into the
new. The regexp stuff was a *huge* help.

In Ruby, my biggest project was to create an app for my wife that
indexes all of our digital pictures on my file server, and a CGI
program that will dynamically generate a web page for her with all the
photos taken during a given month/year.

They are both much more productive than Java or C++. I just wish more
of our clients used either of them :)

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

[Brian Button]
>
> Can you compare Ruby and Python? I've used them both, and I think I
> prefer Ruby. It has a better syntax and everything is an object. And I
> love passing around anonymous code blocks. OTOH, Python is more
> mature, and has more supporting libraries and APIs.

Ruby certainly has lots of appeal. I couldn't do a fair comparison because I
only looked at it briefly after I was already using Python for a while. I
think your description is a good summary of what I've heard. Ruby has a few
nice syntax features, but I don't find their lacking in Python to be a
roadblock for anything I've wanted to do. And while Ruby does have a
slightly cleaner object model, everything in Python is an object as well.
Python just has some historical warts that are gradually being removed. But
both Ruby and Python are much more object-oriented than Perl and PHP. And,
like you said, Python is more mature and has more out-of-the-box
capabilities than Ruby.

The other item to consider is community. Both Python and Ruby have very
strong communities with approachable leaders. But Matz (or Mats or ???) is
in Japan (right?) while Guido van Rossum (Python language creator) is here
in the States. At the O'Reilly Open Souce Convention last week I had
breakfast with Guido for about an hour and a half, just he and I, discussing
Python. What other language could you say that about? I can't.

> OTOH**2, I've been able to be very productive in both languages very
> quickly. Damn the compilers!!! Gimme a dynamically typed language and
> TDD any day!

Exactly. I get more done in Python and I do things I would never have even
considered doing in another language. In fact, one of my very first Python
apps was a graphical, interactive Python shell, called PyCrust. PyCrust was
written using the wxPython GUI toolkit and now ships with wxPython. There
are several projects using wxPython and embedding PyCrust into their
applications so that users can interact with the application at runtime
using a Python interpreter in a graphical shell that has command line
completion, call tips, command history and other cool features. One of the
projects is called PythonCard  and I wrote an article about it and PyCrust
that was published on the O'Reilly website at
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2002/07/18/pycrust.html.

So I agree with you completely. I want to write programs that solve
difficult problems. But I don't want one of the difficult problems to be the
language I use to write the programs. If the language is simple and clean
and powerful, you can focus more energy on the problem domain and less on
the language domain. I think Python and Ruby both qualify in this regard. I
just happened to pick Python and haven't found a reason to switch. And since
Python gets better with every release, including things that I help
influence, I doubt I'll every have a reason to stop using Python, or to
start using Ruby. I've got bigger fish to fry at this point.

So, in what ways are you using Ruby and Python?

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------
Web:  http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
Blog: http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
Wiki: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien
-----------------------------------------------

>>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick K O'Brien <pobrien@...> writes:

     >> Out of curiosity, what is Python's strong point?  At what
     >> setting is it most prosperous.  I guess Im wondering where you
     >> find Python gigs and what exactly you use it for.

     Patrick> Python has many strong points. Some are more subjective
     Patrick> than others. A few are somewhat controversial. I have a
     Patrick> Python advocacy page at
     Patrick> http://www.orbtech.com/web/python/why.

Can you compare Ruby and Python? I've used them both, and I think I
prefer Ruby. It has a better syntax and everything is an object. And I
love passing around anonymous code blocks. OTOH, Python is more
mature, and has more supporting libraries and APIs.

OTOH**2, I've been able to be very productive in both languages very
quickly. Damn the compilers!!! Gimme a dynamically typed language and
TDD any day!

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

[Mike Shoemaker]
>
> I think I've seen your name around the Gateway JUG.

Trying to stir up interest in Jython, an implementation of the Python
language in Java, which allows you to access Java classes/objects from
Python programs, and vice versa. Jython has a simpler, cleaner syntax than
Java, is more interactive and provides easier introspection.

> Its unfortunate that
> the roundtable doesn't meet anymore, it was a great group of guys(oh and
> Heather).  Even our meeting place ceases to exist anymore.  The
> roundtable
> was at its peak when the various participants brought new and exciting
> topics each week.  It started to dwindle and participation died
> when we got
> stuck on the same topic week to week.  Python would have went over very
> well.  Anyway, welcome.

Thanks.

> I know very little about Python and would love to hear more about
> it.  Maybe we could resurrect the group at some point in Sept(Getting
> around the Summer thing as Brian mentioned)?  Would you be up for
> giving a
> short presentation?

Definitely. Anyone else on the list interested in Python? Anyone else using
it?

> Out of curiosity, what is Python's strong point?  At what setting is it
> most prosperous.  I guess Im wondering where you find Python gigs
> and what
> exactly you use it for.

Python has many strong points. Some are more subjective than others. A few
are somewhat controversial. I have a Python advocacy page at
http://www.orbtech.com/web/python/why. But the best way to answer that is to
actually see Python code and see what it is like to develop programs with
Python. I've used a lot of different languages over the past 15+ years and
Python just fits my brain better than any other language I've ever used.
Part of that is my personality, but plenty of other people feel the same way
about Python.

Because Python is general-purpose, it hasn't really found a niche, in the
way that Perl and PHP and Java have. But it is rapidly gaining in
popularity. I'm hoping to help increase exposure to Python through
presentations and training workshops so that there are more Python gigs. I
have one internal project that I'm developing in Python, I use it for all my
day-to-day programming needs, I've developed a couple of websites using it
to generate xhtml, and I'm involved in a couple of Open Source projects
using Python. And I'd be happy to discuss Python with anyone who is
interested.

I look forward to the next meeting.

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------
Web:  http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
Blog: http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
Wiki: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien
-----------------------------------------------

Hello Patrick

I think I've seen your name around the Gateway JUG.  Its unfortunate that
the roundtable doesn't meet anymore, it was a great group of guys(oh and
Heather).  Even our meeting place ceases to exist anymore.  The roundtable
was at its peak when the various participants brought new and exciting
topics each week.  It started to dwindle and participation died when we got
stuck on the same topic week to week.  Python would have went over very
well.  Anyway, welcome.

I know very little about Python and would love to hear more about
it.  Maybe we could resurrect the group at some point in Sept(Getting
around the Summer thing as Brian mentioned)?  Would you be up for giving a
short presentation?

Out of curiosity, what is Python's strong point?  At what setting is it
most prosperous.  I guess Im wondering where you find Python gigs and what
exactly you use it for.

Mike



At 04:07 PM 07/31/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello, all. I just stumbled upon this group and figured I'd join. I'm a
>Python programmer doing what I can to increase awareness of Python in St.
>Louis. I just got back from the O'Reilly Open Source Convention where I gave
>a presentation on Python. I'm also going to be offering Python training and
>may be looking for some guinea pigs to test material. Let me know if any of
>this interests you. More information will be available on the Orbtech
>website soon. (<http://www.orbtech.com/)>http://www.orbtech.com/)
>
>I was also wondering if the group was still meeting regularly? I can see the
>meetings are scheduled on the calendar, but the description is from January.
>Can someone please clue me in? Thanks.
>
>--
>Patrick K. O'Brien
>Orbtech
>-----------------------------------------------
>"Your source for Python programming expertise."
>-----------------------------------------------
>Web:  <http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/>http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
>Blog:
><http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/>http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
>Wiki:
><http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien>http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickO\
Brien
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>stlroundtable-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>>> "Patrick" == Patrick K O'Brien <pobrien@...> writes:

     Patrick> Hello, all. I just stumbled upon this group and figured
     Patrick> I'd join. I'm a Python programmer doing what I can to
     Patrick> increase awareness of Python in St.  Louis. I just got
     Patrick> back from the O'Reilly Open Source Convention where I
     Patrick> gave a presentation on Python. I'm also going to be
     Patrick> offering Python training and may be looking for some
     Patrick> guinea pigs to test material. Let me know if any of this
     Patrick> interests you. More information will be available on the
     Patrick> Orbtech website soon. (http://www.orbtech.com/)

Welcome to the area, Patrick. More folks are always welcome :) The guy
who started this group, Tim Burns, has since moved away to the North
East, and the group has kind of languished. And its summer, too, which
takes folks out of circulation.

     Patrick> I was also wondering if the group was still meeting
     Patrick> regularly? I can see the meetings are scheduled on the
     Patrick> calendar, but the description is from January.  Can
     Patrick> someone please clue me in? Thanks.

No. We haven't met in months. I see you also joined the XPSTL group,
and we haven't been meeting much lately either. That summer thing
again :)

Once it is fall, and kids are back in school, and it gets dark
earlier, I'll start having meetings there again. For that group, we
get together and do things XP, like writing code. We tried doing Ruby
a few times, but the response was a little weak -- people wanted to
focus on languages that they would have a chance of using
professionally, like Java.

Anyhow, welcome to both groups, and feel free to participate as you
wish.

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

Hello, all. I just stumbled upon this group and figured I'd join. I'm a
Python programmer doing what I can to increase awareness of Python in St.
Louis. I just got back from the O'Reilly Open Source Convention where I gave
a presentation on Python. I'm also going to be offering Python training and
may be looking for some guinea pigs to test material. Let me know if any of
this interests you. More information will be available on the Orbtech
website soon. (http://www.orbtech.com/)

I was also wondering if the group was still meeting regularly? I can see the
meetings are scheduled on the calendar, but the description is from January.
Can someone please clue me in? Thanks.

--
Patrick K. O'Brien
Orbtech
-----------------------------------------------
"Your source for Python programming expertise."
-----------------------------------------------
Web:  http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien/
Blog: http://www.orbtech.com/blog/pobrien/
Wiki: http://www.orbtech.com/wiki/PatrickOBrien
-----------------------------------------------

Hello,
My non-profit organization is looking for a mentor who can assist our
prgramming team with their 3d graphic gaming design. They are
interested in using maya program but are open to all ideas for best
design quality.
Basically someone to bounce ideas off of or offer a class on best
strategies etc.
please email me egosumwuisum@...

All you Java GUI developers.  Savvis is currently looking for a Java
GUI developer. http://www.savvis.net/company/jobs/index.cfm

Follow the above link for details.

Hey, all,

So, I've written my first utPLSQL test, and I'm just as proud as can be.
   The only way I could be even slightly prouder is if I could actually
*run* the thing :(

Here's what happens. I install utPLSQL as it says to. My code is in
d:\projects\sql\webphotos. I have two files in there,
ut_datafromfile.pks and ut_datafromfile.pkb. All I want to do is to run
the single test method I have to confirm that the system is working.

What I get is some error message about not being able to find
ut_ut_datafromfile.setup and teardown. What am I doing wrong?

I defined a test suite using -

exec utSuite.add('WebPhotos')

exec utPackage.add('WebPhotos', 'ut_datafromfile',
dir_in=>'d:\projects\sql\webphotos')

exec utplsql.test('WebPhotos', recompile_in => FALSE)

And I get this for an output:

  >  FFFFFFF   AA     III  L      U     U RRRRR   EEEEEEE
  >  F        A  A     I   L      U     U R    R  E
  >  F       A    A    I   L      U     U R     R E
  >  F      A      A   I   L      U     U R     R E
  >  FFFF   A      A   I   L      U     U RRRRRR  EEEE
  >  F      AAAAAAAA   I   L      U     U R   R   E
  >  F      A      A   I   L      U     U R    R  E
  >  F      A      A   I   L       U   U  R     R E
  >  F      A      A  III  LLLLLLL  UUU   R     R EEEEEEE
.
   FAILURE: "UT_DATAFROMFILE"
.
  > Individual Test Case Results:
  >
FAILURE - Unable to run BBUTTON.ut_UT_DATAFROMFILE.ut_SETUP: ORA-06550:
line 1,
column 7:
PLS-00201: identifier 'BBUTTON.UT_UT_DATAFROMFILE' must be declared
OR
A-06550: line 1, column 7:
PL/SQL: Statement ignored
  >
FAILURE - utPLSQL.test failure: User-Defined Exception
  >
  >
  > Errors recorded in utPLSQL Error Log:
  >
  > NONE FOUND
BEGIN utplsql.testsuite('WebPhotos', recompile_in => false); END;

*
ERROR at line 1:
ORA-06510: PL/SQL: unhandled user-defined exception
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTASSERT2", line 157
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTASSERT", line 59
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTPLSQL", line 375
ORA-06550: line 1, column 7:
PLS-00201: identifier 'BBUTTON.UT_UT_DATAFROMFILE' must be declared
ORA-06550: line 1, column 7:
PL/SQL: Statement ignored
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTPLSQL", line 746
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTPLSQL", line 838
ORA-06510: PL/SQL: unhandled user-defined exception
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTASSERT2", line 157
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTASSERT", line 59
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTPLSQL", line 375
ORA-06550: line 1, column 7:
PLS-00201: identifier 'BBUTTON.UT_UT_DATAFROMFILE' must be declared
ORA-06550: line 1, column 7:
PL/SQL: Statement ignored
ORA-06512: at "BBUTTON.UTPLSQL", line 869
ORA-06512: at line 1

Before anyone asks, if I replace ut_datafromfile with datafromfile,
ORACLE complains that it can't find it.

What have I missed????

bab

The below link to Oracle8 doc from Oracle Technology Network
should be complete for you online reference.
I find it useful to answer all my question on PL/SQL
You might need to register with the website before accessing.

http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle8i/doc_library/817_doc/appdev.817/a770\
69/toc.htm

Pin Koh

From: Brian Button <bbutton01@...>
Reply-To: stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
To: stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [stlroundtable] Looking to learn SQL and PL/SQL
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:33:36 -0500

I find myself with the urgent need to learn about these technologies for
a client by the end of the week. Can anyone recommend the best books to
check out? My current choices are:

Mastering Oracle SQL by O'Reilly
and  any book  by Steve Feuerstein for PL/SQL.

Thanks,
bab





\\\\/
C=-oo
\  o  Pin Ngee


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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Kyle Cordes wrote:

> I found the O'Reilly book useful, but I haven't compared it with others.

I wasn't as enamored of it, as it only talked about DML. For XP and
ContinuousIntegration, DDL seems to be pretty important. I actually
bought SQL for Dummies. It had everything in it I wanted, and was the
best book of the crop at Borders. Go figure :)

>
> PL/SQL is rather a lot to learn in one week.  :-)

Only a spike. My question by the end of the week is whether or not I
could teach a class that used that technology sometime next month.
Fortunately!

bab

The "Oracle8 The Complete Reference" is a great book, its kind of the bible of
Oracle. Of course you will have to adjust the version as 8 isn't the latest and
greatest.  Oreilly has an "Oracle PL/SQL Programming" that is pretty good.  Ive
had these two book for several years and they have always been enough to get me
by.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
   From: Kyle Cordes
   To: stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 12:59 PM
   Subject: Re: [stlroundtable] Looking to learn SQL and PL/SQL


   From: "Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>

   > I find myself with the urgent need to learn about these technologies
   for
   > a client by the end of the week. Can anyone recommend the best books
   to
   > check out? My current choices are:
   >
   > Mastering Oracle SQL by O'Reilly
   > and  any book  by Steve Feuerstein for PL/SQL.


   I found the O'Reilly book useful, but I haven't compared it with others.

   PL/SQL is rather a lot to learn in one week.  :-)

   [ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
   [ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
   [ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
   [ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]


   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   stlroundtable-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Brian Button" <bbutton01@...>

> I find myself with the urgent need to learn about these technologies
for
> a client by the end of the week. Can anyone recommend the best books
to
> check out? My current choices are:
>
> Mastering Oracle SQL by O'Reilly
> and  any book  by Steve Feuerstein for PL/SQL.


I found the O'Reilly book useful, but I haven't compared it with others.

PL/SQL is rather a lot to learn in one week.  :-)

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

I find myself with the urgent need to learn about these technologies for
a client by the end of the week. Can anyone recommend the best books to
check out? My current choices are:

Mastering Oracle SQL by O'Reilly
and  any book  by Steve Feuerstein for PL/SQL.

Thanks,
bab

> Though I'm a curly brace, Java kind of guy rather than a BEGIN/END
kind
> of guy, I'd be interested in joining the group.  As an occasional
Delphi
> / C++ Builder developer, I think these are a couple of the coolest
> tools.

You are very welcome, even with curly braces.  I'm a curly brace kind of
guy myself; I prefer Java's syntax to Delphi.

> (BTW, since C++ Builder also uses the VCL, C++ Builder developers may
/
> should be interested as well to some extent at least.)

Good point.  I shall amend the description of the group.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

Got the user group bug do ya? <g>

Though I'm a curly brace, Java kind of guy rather than a BEGIN/END kind
of guy, I'd be interested in joining the group.  As an occasional Delphi
/ C++ Builder developer, I think these are a couple of the coolest
tools.

(BTW, since C++ Builder also uses the VCL, C++ Builder developers may /
should be interested as well to some extent at least.)

Jack Frosch
Objistics
Tel: 636.498.0635
Fax: 636.498.0923

-----Original Message-----
From: Kyle Cordes [mailto:kyle@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 10:00 PM
To: STL Roundtable
Subject: [stlroundtable] Forming a group for Delphi developers - if
there are any :-)


Oasis Digital (my firm) makes heavy use of Borland Delphi (among other
tools).  I suspect that we aren't the *only* people in the whole area
using it, so I'm interested in forming a St. Louis Delphi User Group (or
some better name...).  Only one problem:  I don't know other Delphi
developers in the St. Louis area.  Can anyone suggest how I might find
them?

I set up a temporary home page for the nascent group:

http://oasisdigital.com/delphistl/

Please tell any Delphi developers you know about it.  Thanks!

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
stlroundtable-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oasis Digital (my firm) makes heavy use of Borland Delphi (among other
tools).  I suspect that we aren't the *only* people in the whole area
using it, so I'm interested in forming a St. Louis Delphi User Group (or
some better name...).  Only one problem:  I don't know other Delphi
developers in the St. Louis area.  Can anyone suggest how I might find
them?

I set up a temporary home page for the nascent group:

http://oasisdigital.com/delphistl/

Please tell any Delphi developers you know about it.  Thanks!

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

> Anyone up for a demo of Eclipse some weekend? I've been playing with
> it a bunch, and I'm building a plugin for it to extend it. I should
> have something reasonable to work with in a couple of weeks, and I'd
> love to show it off.


Sure, I'd be interested.

[ Kyle Cordes * kyle@... * http://kylecordes.com ]
[ Consulting, Training, and Software development tips and   ]
[ techniques: Java, Delphi, ASTA, BDE Alternatives Guide,   ]
[ JB Open Tools, EJB, Web applications, methodologies, etc. ]

>>>>> "Mike" == Mike Shoemaker <mike@...> writes:

     Mike> Sounds good.  8th and 15th are bad for me.  Is the 1st
     Mike> pushing it?

Yeah. Mark Balbes and I are doing a talk at the Embedded Systems
Conference on the 4th, and I'm going to need some time to
remember/prep for that. I'm also giving a talk at Monsanto on the 5th,
so after those two dates would be better for me.

What I might suggest is to combine the stlroundtable meeting with an
xpstl meeting for a month and hit both groups at once.

Just a thought.

bab

--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

Sounds good.  8th and 15th are bad for me.  Is the 1st pushing it?
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Brian Button
   To: stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:41 PM
   Subject: Re: [stlroundtable] New file uploaded to stlroundtable


   >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Lee <crazybob@...> writes:

       Bob> Actually, this "should" work in Netscape 3 as well. I just
       Bob> didn't have a copy around to test it on. ;)

       Bob> This lets you make smarter forms, just as you would for a
       Bob> heavyweight client.

   Bored, Bob? :)

   Anyone up for a demo of Eclipse some weekend? I've been playing with
   it a bunch, and I'm building a plugin for it to extend it. I should
   have something reasonable to work with in a couple of weeks, and I'd
   love to show it off.

   bab
   --
   Brian Button            bbutton@...
   Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
   St. Louis, MO            http://www.objectmentor.com

   Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




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   stlroundtable-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nope, just full of great ideas. ;)

Bob

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Brian Button
   To: stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:41 PM
   Subject: Re: [stlroundtable] New file uploaded to stlroundtable


   >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Lee <crazybob@...> writes:

       Bob> Actually, this "should" work in Netscape 3 as well. I just
       Bob> didn't have a copy around to test it on. ;)

       Bob> This lets you make smarter forms, just as you would for a
       Bob> heavyweight client.

   Bored, Bob? :)

   Anyone up for a demo of Eclipse some weekend? I've been playing with
   it a bunch, and I'm building a plugin for it to extend it. I should
   have something reasonable to work with in a couple of weeks, and I'd
   love to show it off.

   bab
   --
   Brian Button            bbutton@...
   Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
   St. Louis, MO            http://www.objectmentor.com

   Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   stlroundtable-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Lee <crazybob@...> writes:

     Bob> Actually, this "should" work in Netscape 3 as well. I just
     Bob> didn't have a copy around to test it on. ;)

     Bob> This lets you make smarter forms, just as you would for a
     Bob> heavyweight client.

Bored, Bob? :)

Anyone up for a demo of Eclipse some weekend? I've been playing with
it a bunch, and I'm building a plugin for it to extend it. I should
have something reasonable to work with in a couple of weeks, and I'd
love to show it off.

bab
--
Brian Button            bbutton@...
Senior Consultant       Object Mentor, Inc
St. Louis, MO  http://www.objectmentor.com

Extreme Programming in St. Louis - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpstl

Actually, this "should" work in Netscape 3 as well. I just didn't have a
copy around to test it on. ;)

This lets you make smarter forms, just as you would for a heavyweight
client.

Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: <stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com>
To: <stlroundtable@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:22 PM
Subject: [stlroundtable] New file uploaded to stlroundtable


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