Hey DrTebi,

I have been meaning to add my two cents worth. I like your clock!

It reminds me of a thought I had had a year or so ago when the topics of
clocks came up here:

there was a sort of golden age of timepieces that seems to have emerged in
Europe in the period leading up to and including the industrial revolution.
Gears and gadgets and sounds and rumbling robotic animations, all
celebrating both our technology and our curious human relationship with
time! Time: one of the intrinsically most observable but least measurable
entities in physics. This of course got me thinking about the digital age
and our persistent fascination with the odd tension between the digital and
the analogue (waves and particles, discrete and continuous, left brain/right
brain... that sort of stuff). Well here we are in the midst of a new
Renaissance (the first one was ushered in with plagues, and wars and all
manner of trouble), and it seems a good time to invent new kinds of
timepieces!

And of course SVG lends itself to the prototyping of all sorts of timepieces
that have never yet been built.

How about we have a Friendly Little Intermittent Clockfest!? A FLIC, or
simply a Clockfest. Let's invite people to submit all manner of strange,
funny, artful and X* clocks all out of SVG (and CSS and SMIL and JavaScript
of course).  Maybe we could post a little collection of links to all of them
on PlanetSVG?

More? I am sure they are out there!
David

* let X stand for any interesting adjective.

----- Original Message -----
From: "DrTebi" <drtebi@...>
To: <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Re: digital/analog SVG Clock...


I don't mind if you make a widget out of it, it would be nice if you
give me some credit somewhere though...

What kind of widget are you talking about, and what do you use to
program it? Just curious.

DrTebi


On Apr 30, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:05:23 +0200, DrTebi <drtebi@...> wrote:
>
> > Make sure you "hold down" (click) the button of the clock as well,
> it
> > will switch the display to seconds :)
>
> Yeah, I found that, but I started using it just after midnight so it
> took
> a little while for my befuddled brain to figure out how to tell the
> hour :)
>
> Can I make a Widget out of it? (Or have you done that already?)
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
> > On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, patrick_berkeley wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Both your clock and sonic.net are very cool!
> >>
> >> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "DrTebi" <drtebi@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you.
> >> It's modeled after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:
> >> >
> >> > http://sonic.net/~drtebi/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Any comments are greatly appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > DrTebi
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
> > life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something
> to be
> > enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > -----
> > To unsubscribe send a message to:
> > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > -or-
> > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
> my
> > membership"
> > ----Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group
> je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
>
>

--
We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be
enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley




------------------------------------

-----
To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
-or-
visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my
membership"
----Yahoo! Groups Links

I have just created a little test SVG file with the textArea element,
it works in Opera, not in Firefox.

Here is something that might give you some clues:
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/proposals/svg-html/svg-html-proposal.html#name_collisions

I am not an expert, but from what I know any kind of text-wrapping is
not possible with current browsers, at least not without some "hacking."


DrTebi


On Apr 30, 2009, at 1:04 PM, simonshutter wrote:

>
>
> Am I right that brower native support for textArea is currently
> limited to Opera 9 ?
>
>
>

--
We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be
enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley

I don't mind if you make a widget out of it, it would be nice if you
give me some credit somewhere though...

What kind of widget are you talking about, and what do you use to
program it? Just curious.

DrTebi


On Apr 30, 2009, at 5:12 AM, Charles McCathieNevile wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:05:23 +0200, DrTebi <drtebi@...> wrote:
>
> > Make sure you "hold down" (click) the button of the clock as well,
> it
> > will switch the display to seconds :)
>
> Yeah, I found that, but I started using it just after midnight so it
> took
> a little while for my befuddled brain to figure out how to tell the
> hour :)
>
> Can I make a Widget out of it? (Or have you done that already?)
>
> cheers
>
> Chaals
>
> > On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, patrick_berkeley wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Both your clock and sonic.net are very cool!
> >>
> >> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "DrTebi" <drtebi@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you.
> >> It's modeled after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:
> >> >
> >> > http://sonic.net/~drtebi/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Any comments are greatly appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > DrTebi
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
> > life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something
> to be
> > enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > -----
> > To unsubscribe send a message to:
> > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > -or-
> > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
> my
> > membership"
> > ----Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group
> je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
> http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com
>
>

--
We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be
enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley

Am I right that brower native support for textArea is currently limited to Opera
9 ?

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 05:05:23 +0200, DrTebi <drtebi@...> wrote:

> Make sure you "hold down" (click) the button of the clock as well, it
> will switch the display to seconds :)

Yeah, I found that, but I started using it just after midnight so it took
a little while for my befuddled brain to figure out how to tell the hour :)

Can I make a Widget out of it? (Or have you done that already?)

cheers

Chaals

> On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, patrick_berkeley wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Both your clock and sonic.net are very cool!
>>
>> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "DrTebi" <drtebi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you.
>> It's modeled after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:
>> >
>> > http://sonic.net/~drtebi/
>> >
>> >
>> > Any comments are greatly appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > DrTebi
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
> life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be
> enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----
> To unsubscribe send a message to:
> svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> -or-
> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my
> membership"
> ----Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


--
Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
      je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
http://my.opera.com/chaals       Try Opera: http://www.opera.com

Thank you. I agree, Sonic is a very solid ISP.

Make sure you "hold down" (click) the button of the clock as well, it
will switch the display to seconds :)

DrTebi


On Apr 28, 2009, at 7:08 AM, patrick_berkeley wrote:

>
>
> Both your clock and sonic.net are very cool!
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "DrTebi" <drtebi@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you.
> It's modeled after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:
> >
> > http://sonic.net/~drtebi/
> >
> >
> > Any comments are greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > DrTebi
> >
>
>
>

--
We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of
life, when all that we need to make us really happy is something to be
enthusiastic about. - Charles Kingsley

Hi,

OK Terry makes a number of points, with varying degrees of validity, so this is
going to get a bit lengthy.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Terry Riegel <riegel@...> wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> Your not listening. Your response to many of Doug's suggestions below
> was "nope gonna do it my way".

I think this is overly simplistic.  I did things the way they are for reasons
and I'm not convinced that Doug knows better than me or that somebody else isn't
going to say they agree with me or come up with yet another idea.  I haven't
really decided what to do yet.  If you don't think I'm right about objecting to
Doug's ideas, I'd like to hear specific arguments rather than just assuming that
Doug's right.

> I tried again to figure out your site
> and am today more confused than the first time I visited it.

Thanks for your persistance.

> I still
> am not sure what comic is your latest. I clicked a link that said
> latest and got some youtube videos.

What link was that?

> When I go to the site I see two links that I would call prominent
> "ENTER MAXIMIZED" and "ENTER THIS FRAME" but I also get a warning
> regarding SVG content but am not sure why I am getting it since I am
> visiting with Safari.

I seem to remember that the consensus on this list was that SVG viewer/browser
detection scripts were more trouble than they are worth so I just warn
everybody.

> So in my mind I am thinking is this working.
> Then below a horizontal rule I see 6 random images that I am not sure
> if they are part of the site or what there purpose is. I clicked on a
> few and was taken to who knows where. This made me nervous about
> clicking anything else since I didn't know what would happen when I
> clicked.

The animated one with the pixelpalaces logo on it take you to my website design
company website - the standard practice of linking to your main site from every
page.

The one marked Comic Rank takes you to the Comic Rank website.  They want this
on every page to help their ranking thing.

The gargoil icon has a mailto link so you can contact me.  Again standard
practice of putting a contact link on every page.

Webring comic strippers' ring - I though that was fairly self explanatory. 
Again this is a ploy for greater exposure.

W3C - yes this is valid XHTML!

Freehostia - my new hosting company.

Then there's a repeat of part of the sliced image above.  For some reason the
only image on this page which Facebook seems able to find to use as a thumbnail
is the Comic Rank one.  This was an attempt to get round that and have Facebook
display something more apropriate but it doesn't work.

> So I decided to click "ENTER THIS FRAME"

Yes this will take you to the main page.  The "ENTER MAXIMIZED" will also do
that but in a maximized window.

> and from reading what you
> said previously "There is a prominent link to the most recent comic."
> I decide my best course of action (although I had no clue what my best
> course of action was. What I wanted was to see a comic.) is to click
> the Link entitled "RECENT"

There is no link marked "RECENT" on this page.  There is one marked "LATEST".  I
assume this is what you mean.  I thought this was pretty obvious as the link to
the most recent comic.


> I was greeted with the following Text...
>
> --------
> TRIAL OF HUMANY - Part IX Clash of the Sea Monsters
> Dragon Knights: Archives icon
> ARCHIVES
>
> COMENTS WELCOME
> The super heroic action continues in a computer animated movie
> MOVIE
> This is being added in sections. They will eventually be combined and
> there will be a soundtrack.
> • Title sequence - added 27/6/07
> • Space ship launch - added 27/7/07
> • Leopleurodon and Dawn - added 2/10/7
> • Leviathan and Mech: Rushdi - added on 6/12/7
> • Tiffy, Chickita and Hernandez - added on 26/6/08
> • A sea monster apropaches a ship. - added on 18/3/09

The last of these links is what you want.  Again I thought obvious.

> WATCH THIS SPACE
> -------
>
> I assumed my navigation was in the bulleted list, but every link I
> clicked took me to http://www.freehostia.com/ via some sort of
> redirect. So I assumed those were not the links I wanted.

Now you've found a problem I wasn't aware of.  These link to avi files and the
expected behaviour is for Windows Media Player, or Real Player or something to
open up and display them.  However IE stopped doing this a while back but I
don't know why.  The redirect to Freehostia's website is a new thing relating to
my new hosting company and obviously needs to be dealt with.  I don't know how
but will look into it.

> This text took up the top third of my display (Apple 30" 2560x1600)
> then the next 1/3 of the screen was filled with random clips to
> youtube which as far as I could tell had nothing to do with the comic
> site.

This is an attempt to make money but adsense are discontinuing it so it will be
changed soon.

> The bottom 1/3 had what appeared to be more links to random
> stuff (I knew this was probably not what I wanted since on the first
> page I discovered it was a guessing game what clicking on that stuff
> would do.

Online Comics - links to Online Comics - a web comic directory.  This can be
slow to load and has been prone to being down a lot lately but that's beyond my
control.

Vote TWC TOP 100 - is so you can vote for my comic on Top Web Comics.

Support PixelPalaces at OnlineComics.net is for you to vote on Online Comics.

Review Me O.OO - is for you to review my comic on Choice Comics.net

Animated Pixelpalaces logo take you to my web design site as always.

Archives - comic archives

Gargoil - mailto link as allways.

W3C - same as above.

> But... as I looked closer there was this little sliver at the top of
> the bottom third that said "Start" "Part VIII" "Part IX extra" and
> "Latest"
>
> Still not sure what all this meant I decide the best course would be
> to click on the one titled start. Was I clicking on the start of the
> most recent comic?

No this leads to the Start of the "Trial of Humanity" comics.


> Not sure. Was I clicking on the start of all the
> comics? Not sure. Should I have clicked latest? Or would that be the
> latest installment of this comic? Or does it work that way? How does
> it work? I still didn't (and still don't) know.
>
> So I decide to click "Start" and .... ahhhh haaa I think I am viewing
> an SVG thing. So I was able to see the SVG comic. Which One I was
> looking at? Not sure? I think it is "Trial of Humanity" since that is
> what it says on the left of this page but it looks like the word
> "Book" is obscuring the title. Must be some sort of SVG issue.

Unfortunately Safari handles fonts differently from ASV so the text sizes are
wrong.

>What
> happened next left doubt in my mind if I was looking at the right
> comic of now.
>
> At this point I get the idea I am finally looking at a comic. It have
> 4 simple choices "Intro" "Orientation" "Part 1" and "FORUM". Seems
> simple enough although I wonder what "FORUM" is. So I click on "Intro"
> expecting to see the beginning of the comic but it takes me to this
> URL http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/DR_intro.htm which now looks like a
> HTML page not a comic. This is confusing as I thought I was looking at
> a comic.

I couldn't get this why I tried using Safar, I got the comercial page linking to
Orientation.  The Intro page is an HTML page.

> So I hit the back button and try "Orientation" this turns up
> this page...
>
>
http://www.pixelpalaces.com/CGI-LOCAL/combreak.cgi?D=orientation.svgz&L=Orientat\
ion&F=toh-note.txt&T=toOrientation.txt

Again an attempt to make money.  There's an obvious link saying "Proceed to
Orientation" on the right side.

> Which seems to be saying I didn't do something correct. SO again I hit
> the back button and think oh maybe I was supposed to click on the
> space station looking thing. I click it and I am greeted with a popup
> window with another long bit of HTML.

This is a link to background information about the space ship.

> Just tried to duplicate it to
> post the URL I was getting and now I get another link that invites me
> to watch some videos "Watch videos (and earn me some money)" So now I
> am really confused. Once again I hit the back button.

I'm not sure what you did there.

> I am going to stop at this point as I feel like I have spent way to
> much time trying to "look" at your site. I have no trouble accessing
> it.

Well that's an improvement.

> Works great for me. My problem is I was not presented with a clear
> idea of what was on the site and what I should do to navigate the
> site. It just became to confusing to use and in the end was frustrating.

Part of the problem was that my new hosting company has introduced a new problem
with avi files.  I'm definately going to try to fix this in the very near
future.  You're other main problem is related to my attempts to make money by
displaying comercials between the comics (because I'm not sure there's a way to
put adverts in SVGZ files and get paid for them).  I'm going to have to change
this for other reasons but I haven't decided how yet.

> If you
> don't like hearing that your site is hard to navigate then telling us
> you overrated our intelligence will only make people defensive and
> unhelpful.

Simply saying that something is hard to navigate and not going into details is
unhelpful.  What you've done above is of more use and I will definately act on
it.  I think the thing about overating intelligence was about finding links in
email.

> I suggest you follow conventions for web sites that are
> clear for end users.

Most those web sites don't have SVG's.

> I think you need to spend less time explaining to us why you did
> things the way you did and more time trying to understand what is
> being said to help you improve the site.

The idea of explaining why I did things the way I did, is so hopefully somebody
can come up with a way to acheive my objectives and improve user friendlyness.

> I would recommend as a
> starting point that you follow Doug's comments to the letter and then
> think about tweaking it from there.

You do realise that some of Doug's comments will take a lot of work and IMHO are
questionable?  For example putting things in a side bar.

> Terry

Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199
South Alberta Cactus and succulent society:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008

Both your clock and sonic.net are very cool!

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "DrTebi" <drtebi@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you. It's modeled
after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:
>
> http://sonic.net/~drtebi/
>
>
> Any comments are greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> DrTebi
>

Hi,

The page you are talking about I have very little control over.  The size a
position of the icon are beyond my control.  I suppose I could change it but
most icons on online comics have faces (pressumably of comic characters) on
them.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Bruder" <redurbf@...> wrote:
>
> The animated icon has no text in it. It's at the left with the post text
running right. The immediate impression I got was that it was your user avatar.
It doesn't look like a banner, and I didn't realise it was a link.
>
> I only managed to find the link by looking at the much smaller icons to the
upper right, the outermost of which showed the title "Jump to Web Site!" when I
hovered the mouse over it. The first time I tried, it timed out though.
>
> To me the animated icon looks like it was a user avatar. Even though I looked
close enough to find the other, much smaller link to your comic, I did not
realise that the animated icon is a link until you pointed that one out. I
suggest you add a text link.

Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199
South Alberta Cactus and succulent society:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008

We have an opening with our client in El Segundo for an SVG developer.  Client
is expecting 5+ years of experience developing in the LAMP stack, and also
experience with XML transformations using XSLT.   If you are interested, and
would like to learn more, please send resume to Jobs4@...

Hello,

I would like to share this SVG clock I recently created with you. It's modeled
after a watch I once owned, but unfortunately lost:

http://sonic.net/~drtebi/


Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
DrTebi

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:45:49 +0100, Vladimir Agafonkin <agafonkin@...>
wrote:

> Hi guys!
>
> I'm implementing a mapping library (somehow similar to Google Maps)
> and have a very frustrating problem with SVG - if I have several
> independent SVG elements on an HTML page and one covers a part of the
> other, shapes in that part don't receive click events. It behaves like
> this in FF3 and Opera9 but surprisingly works fine in Safari 3.
>
> Here's a simple test case to demostrate what I mean:
> http://agafonkin.com/files/etc/svgbug.html (try clicking the red path)
>
> Because of this problem I was forced to reimplement vector
> functionality in my library so that all paths have one root SVG
> element, but calculating shared viewBox is very inconvenient, besides
> on high zoom levels this viewBox can become too big and it stops
> rendering completely after some point.
>
> I would appreciate any help on the matter. Thanks a lot in advance!

This bug has been fixed in the latest public Opera 10 snapshot:

  
http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2009/04/24/automated-crash-reporting-and-mo\
re-detailed-changelog

Cheers
/Erik

--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed

If you're serious about "without a plug-in", then Flash and QuickTime are out of
the question, since no browser supports them natively. The only format for
animated graphics which is supported by all of the major browsers (and not only
by the major ones) is GIF.


Conversion of animations was recently discussed in another thread:
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/61947>

One of the replies pointed to a Firefox extension which can convert animated SVG
to APNG:
<http://www.treebuilder.de/default.asp?file=660000.xml>

That address went straight to my notes, but I haven't tested the extension yet.
If it works good enough for your graphics, then you would need to convert from
APNG to animated GIF, which is more widely supported than APNG. This can be done
with ImageMagick. GIF works with palettes of maximally 256 colors, so something
will be lost in the conversion from true color APNG to GIF.


Batik supports animation, but unfortunately there are no commandline options for
easily converting animations to MNG or APNG.


I think it's good practice to create static graphics first, and then add
animations as extra feature in such a way that if all animate elements were
removed, the static image would remain. Not only because of Firefox' lack of
declarative animation support. I think it should be possible to switch animation
off in the browser. Just think about how websites full of animated graphics
might affect people with attention deficit disorder, or epilepsy.

When graphics are designed such that animation is not a necessary feature to
convey the meaning, it should also be much easier to find converters for
creating fallback content in VML and PNG.


Regards
Frank

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Nicolas Graner <Nicolas.Graner@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
> I have hand-crafted a few non-interactive SVG animations for my web
> site, but nearly all my visitors complain that their browser cannot
> display them. I would like to convert them to a format more generally
> recognized by common browsers without a plug-in. What software can I
> use to convert SVG animations to Flash, animated GIF, QuickTime or
> whatever? Free or reasonably priced software preferred...
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Nicolas
>

Richard,

Your not listening. Your response to many of Doug's suggestions below
was "nope gonna do it my way". I tried again to figure out your site
and am today more confused than the first time I visited it. I still
am not sure what comic is your latest. I clicked a link that said
latest and got some youtube videos.

When I go to the site I see two links that I would call prominent
"ENTER MAXIMIZED" and "ENTER THIS FRAME" but I also get a warning
regarding SVG content but am not sure why I am getting it since I am
visiting with Safari. So in my mind I am thinking is this working.
Then below a horizontal rule I see 6 random images that I am not sure
if they are part of the site or what there purpose is. I clicked on a
few and was taken to who knows where. This made me nervous about
clicking anything else since I didn't know what would happen when I
clicked.

So I decided to click "ENTER THIS FRAME" and from reading what you
said previously "There is a prominent link to the most recent comic."
I decide my best course of action (although I had no clue what my best
course of action was. What I wanted was to see a comic.) is to click
the Link entitled "RECENT"

I was greeted with the following Text...

--------
TRIAL OF HUMANY - Part IX Clash of the Sea Monsters
Dragon Knights: Archives icon
ARCHIVES

COMENTS WELCOME
The super heroic action continues in a computer animated movie
MOVIE
This is being added in sections. They will eventually be combined and
there will be a soundtrack.
• Title sequence - added 27/6/07
• Space ship launch - added 27/7/07
• Leopleurodon and Dawn - added 2/10/7
• Leviathan and Mech: Rushdi - added on 6/12/7
• Tiffy, Chickita and Hernandez - added on 26/6/08
• A sea monster apropaches a ship. - added on 18/3/09
WATCH THIS SPACE
-------

I assumed my navigation was in the bulleted list, but every link I
clicked took me to http://www.freehostia.com/ via some sort of
redirect. So I assumed those were not the links I wanted.

This text took up the top third of my display (Apple 30" 2560x1600)
then the next 1/3 of the screen was filled with random clips to
youtube which as far as I could tell had nothing to do with the comic
site. The bottom 1/3 had what appeared to be more links to random
stuff (I knew this was probably not what I wanted since on the first
page I discovered it was a guessing game what clicking on that stuff
would do.

But... as I looked closer there was this little sliver at the top of
the bottom third that said "Start" "Part VIII" "Part IX extra" and
"Latest"

Still not sure what all this meant I decide the best course would be
to click on the one titled start. Was I clicking on the start of the
most recent comic? Not sure. Was I clicking on the start of all the
comics? Not sure. Should I have clicked latest? Or would that be the
latest installment of this comic? Or does it work that way? How does
it work? I still didn't (and still don't) know.

So I decide to click "Start" and .... ahhhh haaa I think I am viewing
an SVG thing. So I was able to see the SVG comic. Which One I was
looking at? Not sure? I think it is "Trial of Humanity" since that is
what it says on the left of this page but it looks like the word
"Book" is obscuring the title. Must be some sort of SVG issue. What
happened next left doubt in my mind if I was looking at the right
comic of now.

At this point I get the idea I am finally looking at a comic. It have
4 simple choices "Intro" "Orientation" "Part 1" and "FORUM". Seems
simple enough although I wonder what "FORUM" is. So I click on "Intro"
expecting to see the beginning of the comic but it takes me to this
URL http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/DR_intro.htm which now looks like a
HTML page not a comic. This is confusing as I thought I was looking at
a comic. So I hit the back button and try "Orientation" this turns up
this page...

http://www.pixelpalaces.com/CGI-LOCAL/combreak.cgi?D=orientation.svgz&L=Orientat\
ion&F=toh-note.txt&T=toOrientation.txt

Which seems to be saying I didn't do something correct. SO again I hit
the back button and think oh maybe I was supposed to click on the
space station looking thing. I click it and I am greeted with a popup
window with another long bit of HTML. Just tried to duplicate it to
post the URL I was getting and now I get another link that invites me
to watch some videos "Watch videos (and earn me some money)" So now I
am really confused. Once again I hit the back button.

I am going to stop at this point as I feel like I have spent way to
much time trying to "look" at your site. I have no trouble accessing
it. Works great for me. My problem is I was not presented with a clear
idea of what was on the site and what I should do to navigate the
site. It just became to confusing to use and in the end was frustrating.

I am also concerned with your posts that indicate the users on this
list are unintelligent and do not know how to navigate your site. If
that helps you in making your site better then go out and start
teaching the whole world how to navigate your site your way. If you
don't like hearing that your site is hard to navigate then telling us
you overrated our intelligence will only make people defensive and
unhelpful. I suggest you follow conventions for web sites that are
clear for end users.

I think you need to spend less time explaining to us why you did
things the way you did and more time trying to understand what is
being said to help you improve the site. I would recommend as a
starting point that you follow Doug's comments to the letter and then
think about tweaking it from there.


Terry



On Apr 27, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Richard Pearman wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Firstly thanks for this as I think a big part of my problem is
> almost total lack of feedback.  I've done things for reasons so
> changing them has it's own problems.  What follows is discussion
> rather than argument.
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers <doug@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Richard-
>
>> 1) place a prominent link on your front page that says, "Dragon
>> Knights
>> Comic (in SVG)" pointing to http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/
>
> This might be a good idea.
>
>> 2) replace the content of the intro page with the most recent comic
>
> There is a prominent link to the most recent comic.  I think there
> are various problems with this.  Firstly there's the risk of
> dropping a first time visitor into an interactive SVG with no idea
> how to navigate around it and no idea of the plot and how to get to
> the beginning or perhaps subjecting them unexpectadly to some
> "objectionable" content.  Actually they do all start with a help
> page and menu bar.  How stupid are people?  It seems that beyond a
> certain point, attempts to make things more user friendly only make
> things more confusing.
>
> Also at pressent I'm alternating between new installments of part IX
> (movie - in avi but I may change the format), part IX x (fillers in
> various formats) and part X (mostly HTML text).  (I would really
> like to get these parts finished so I can get back to SVG.  I only
> have so much time to do stuff!)
>
>> 3) provide clear back-and-forward links on the first page view,
>> with a
>> link to the archive list
>
> I've pretty much done this.
>
>> 4) don't open popups or new tabs... leave that up to the user
>
> I thought it a good idea to open the comic in a maximized window
> (and put some adverts and stuff on the original page).  It's easy
> enough to close a browser window.  I open some things from SVG files
> in new windows to make it easy to get back to the SVG without
> reloading it and having to start from the beginning.  However EI
> nixed this by stopping links with target attributes in from working.
>
>> 5) don't make the user wade through instructions or long text
>> explanations of the history of the world... these are webcomics,
>> people
>> don't have that kind of attention span.  Tell the story in comic
>> form,
>> not in prose.
>
> Partly I didn't want to spend ages telling the complicated back
> story (some of which isn't what it's supposed to be and our heroes
> have to deduce this).  Anyway nobody is forced to read this stuff,
> it's easy enough to go straight to the comics.
>
>> 6) dump the page of explanations on how to use the site, and have
>> that
>> information available in a sidebar
>
> I think this would take a major re-think of the layout as the comics
> are displayed without being contained on HTML pages which has it's
> own problems.  Also I'm not sure the users aren't simply going to
> ignore the sidebar.  A sidebar can't really let you test things and
> explain in an interactive way the way the orientation file does.  I
> do have instructions in most the SVG files which are displayed when
> first opened.
>
>> 7) dump the warning about which browser to use, unless it matters.
>> There are lots of scripts that we've talked about on svg-dev that
>> can be
>> used to detect SVG support... use those instead, and tell the user
>> *only
>> if they don't have SVG support*
>
> I thought these scripts were themselves problematic (which is why I
> decided against this).  Also Firefox 9 has serious problems with
> most the comic files.  I haven't been able to isolate the problem(s)
> and develop a test case (again I only have so much time).  Therefore
> I really need to be able to detect different SVG capable viewers and
> browsers rather than just SVG support.
>
>> 8) don't make people go to the video player ad page... load the
>> links in
>> the sidebar.  If you really must have a whole page dedicated to the
>> video ads, provide a clear way to get to the content (i.e., an arrow
>> saying "continue to comic").
>
> I'm going to have to get rid of these ads anyway as addsence is
> discontinuing them.  Most comics have adverts on every page.  I'm
> not sure how I could put adds in the comic files (obviously I want
> to get paid for this) so I decided on putting pages of adds between
> the files.  These pages do have clear links to the next comic.
>
>> 9) you seem to be interested in the experimental and multi-layered
>> approach to interactive comics, which is cool... but experiments are
>> there to figure out what works and what doesn't... keep refining your
>> interface (for example, I really don't like mousing around the
>> frame to
>> see who's speaking next)... at the very least provide a visual
>> prompt,
>> and a way to "navigate" the conversation (maybe back and forward
>> arrows
>> in the canvas, to hide and show the voice bubbles in sequence).
>
> There is a visual prompt!  The next thing to speak (usually,
> sometimes something else happens) changes color.  However in
> everything except ASV and Opera this doesn't work and the objects in
> question turn black (Firefox 9 usually doesn't display them but this
> isn't entirely consistent) and sometimes they turn white in ASV.
> Anyway it's usually fairly obvious.  There's also a bubble icon in
> the middle of the navigation bar if there are more bubbles to be
> displayed.
>
>> Hope that helps-
>
> It's given me some food for thought.  I've also got to get the mod
> database working properly as the new hosting company didn't like it
> at all and it never worked properly and I couldn't figure out why.
> I also need to get part XIII to work in Google Chrome and Safari.  I
> would also like to get another part IX installment up soon.
> Therefore I'm not sure when or how I'm going to impliment changes.
>
> Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
> The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
> Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199
> South Alberta Cactus and succulent society:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----
> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> -or-
> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
> my membership"
> ----Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

Firstly thanks for this as I think a big part of my problem is almost total lack
of feedback.  I've done things for reasons so changing them has it's own
problems.  What follows is discussion rather than argument.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers <doug@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Richard-

> 1) place a prominent link on your front page that says, "Dragon Knights
> Comic (in SVG)" pointing to http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/

This might be a good idea.

> 2) replace the content of the intro page with the most recent comic

There is a prominent link to the most recent comic.  I think there are various
problems with this.  Firstly there's the risk of dropping a first time visitor
into an interactive SVG with no idea how to navigate around it and no idea of
the plot and how to get to the beginning or perhaps subjecting them unexpectadly
to some "objectionable" content.  Actually they do all start with a help page
and menu bar.  How stupid are people?  It seems that beyond a certain point,
attempts to make things more user friendly only make things more confusing.

Also at pressent I'm alternating between new installments of part IX (movie - in
avi but I may change the format), part IX x (fillers in various formats) and
part X (mostly HTML text).  (I would really like to get these parts finished so
I can get back to SVG.  I only have so much time to do stuff!)

> 3) provide clear back-and-forward links on the first page view, with a
> link to the archive list

I've pretty much done this.

> 4) don't open popups or new tabs... leave that up to the user

I thought it a good idea to open the comic in a maximized window (and put some
adverts and stuff on the original page).  It's easy enough to close a browser
window.  I open some things from SVG files in new windows to make it easy to get
back to the SVG without reloading it and having to start from the beginning. 
However EI nixed this by stopping links with target attributes in from working.

> 5) don't make the user wade through instructions or long text
> explanations of the history of the world... these are webcomics, people
> don't have that kind of attention span.  Tell the story in comic form,
> not in prose.

Partly I didn't want to spend ages telling the complicated back story (some of
which isn't what it's supposed to be and our heroes have to deduce this). 
Anyway nobody is forced to read this stuff, it's easy enough to go straight to
the comics.

> 6) dump the page of explanations on how to use the site, and have that
> information available in a sidebar

I think this would take a major re-think of the layout as the comics are
displayed without being contained on HTML pages which has it's own problems. 
Also I'm not sure the users aren't simply going to ignore the sidebar.  A
sidebar can't really let you test things and explain in an interactive way the
way the orientation file does.  I do have instructions in most the SVG files
which are displayed when first opened.

> 7) dump the warning about which browser to use, unless it matters.
> There are lots of scripts that we've talked about on svg-dev that can be
> used to detect SVG support... use those instead, and tell the user *only
> if they don't have SVG support*

I thought these scripts were themselves problematic (which is why I decided
against this).  Also Firefox 9 has serious problems with most the comic files. 
I haven't been able to isolate the problem(s) and develop a test case (again I
only have so much time).  Therefore I really need to be able to detect different
SVG capable viewers and browsers rather than just SVG support.

> 8) don't make people go to the video player ad page... load the links in
> the sidebar.  If you really must have a whole page dedicated to the
> video ads, provide a clear way to get to the content (i.e., an arrow
> saying "continue to comic").

I'm going to have to get rid of these ads anyway as addsence is discontinuing
them.  Most comics have adverts on every page.  I'm not sure how I could put
adds in the comic files (obviously I want to get paid for this) so I decided on
putting pages of adds between the files.  These pages do have clear links to the
next comic.

> 9) you seem to be interested in the experimental and multi-layered
> approach to interactive comics, which is cool... but experiments are
> there to figure out what works and what doesn't... keep refining your
> interface (for example, I really don't like mousing around the frame to
> see who's speaking next)... at the very least provide a visual prompt,
> and a way to "navigate" the conversation (maybe back and forward arrows
> in the canvas, to hide and show the voice bubbles in sequence).

There is a visual prompt!  The next thing to speak (usually, sometimes something
else happens) changes color.  However in everything except ASV and Opera this
doesn't work and the objects in question turn black (Firefox 9 usually doesn't
display them but this isn't entirely consistent) and sometimes they turn white
in ASV.  Anyway it's usually fairly obvious.  There's also a bubble icon in the
middle of the navigation bar if there are more bubbles to be displayed.

> Hope that helps-

It's given me some food for thought.  I've also got to get the mod database
working properly as the new hosting company didn't like it at all and it never
worked properly and I couldn't figure out why.  I also need to get part XIII to
work in Google Chrome and Safari.  I would also like to get another part IX
installment up soon.  Therefore I'm not sure when or how I'm going to impliment
changes.

Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199
South Alberta Cactus and succulent society:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008

Hi Nicolas,



> I would like to convert them to a format more generally
> recognized by common browsers without a plug-in.


Flash and QuickTime do require plugins too.
Are the complaining visitors using IE without Adobe SVG Viewer, or Firefox
without SMIL ?



> What software can I use to convert SVG animations to Flash, animated GIF,
> QuickTime or whatever?
>

I'm not aware of any convertors either.
If I were to convert an animated SVG, I think I'd make a little java program
using Batik, to raster the frames (and save them as an animated gif, or
apng).
Batik supports JS or SMIL animations, and seems to support
<svg>.setCurrentTime(). (though i suppose setCurrentTime will not work with
JS animations)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Nicolas Graner <Nicolas.Graner@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
>
> I have hand-crafted a few non-interactive SVG animations for my web
> site, but nearly all my visitors complain that their browser cannot
> display them. I would like to convert them to a format more generally
> recognized by common browsers without a plug-in. What software can I
> use to convert SVG animations to Flash, animated GIF, QuickTime or
> whatever? Free or reasonably priced software preferred...
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Nicolas
>

Sorry, I'm not aware of any tools to convert from SVG+SMIL to another format.

By the way, have you considered using the FakeSmile shim for your animations in
Firefox/Safari/Chrome?  This probably won't get you there for IE+plugin users.

Jeff

Hello to all,

I have hand-crafted a few non-interactive SVG animations for my web
site, but nearly all my visitors complain that their browser cannot
display them. I would like to convert them to a format more generally
recognized by common browsers without a plug-in. What software can I
use to convert SVG animations to Flash, animated GIF, QuickTime or
whatever? Free or reasonably priced software preferred...

Thanks for your help,

Nicolas

Thanks for your suggestions. I managed to tweak my way around the problem with
space-glyphs.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Ken Stacey <ken@...> wrote:
>
> What Eric said, plus you could add a "space" glyph with the desired
> advance and make the advance of the "/" = 0.  Then put spaces between
> the "/"s
>
> <glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="0" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>
> <glyph unicode=" " horiz-adv-x="400"/>
>
> and
>
> <text font-family="custom" font-size="90" startOffset="0" fill="none"
> stroke="#000" stroke-width="10">
>    <textPath xlink:href="#2258544">/ / / / / / / / / / /</textPath>
> </text>
>
> or, you could could leave out the space glyph and do something like
>
> <glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="0" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>
>
> <text font-family="custom" font-size="90" startOffset="0" fill="none"
> stroke="#000" stroke-width="10"><textPath xlink:href="#2258544"><tspan
> dx="0,400,400,400,400">/////</tspan></textPath></text>
>
> Ken
>
> > On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:59:27 +0200, scalablev <svg@...> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm using <textpath> to place a custom font along a <path>. In
> > > some cases the glyphs are way off when viewed in ASV3:
> > > http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/capture.png
> > >
> > > This is the svg:
> > > http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/textpath.svg
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell if something is wrong in my svg or is it an ASV bug?
> >
> > You need to tweak your glyph and the advances for it, or adapt the
> > path you want to use it on. If it's this simple maybe a stroke-dasharray
> > could work instead? Another way with slightly more precision would be to
> > use markers, since you can then control exactly where you want the
> > markers placed by using moveto commands.
> >
> > Also if you want the custom font to work in Opera (doesn't yet
> > support child elements of the glyph element):
> >
> >   <glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="400" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>
> >
> > Cheers
> > /Erik
>

Can you try it on the phone, because I think the previous problem was to do with
mobile devices memory or power. (they are still 3MB of SVG code) That's why I
never got your drivers with my clips to work in my phone.
Those clips playd well with with SE m600i phone using Opera for Mobile browser
but not much on others. So, the project is currently in hold until I find enough
devices to play my clips.

Veiko
http://veikoh.wordpress.com


--- On Mon, 4/27/09, andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...> wrote:

> From: andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...>
> Subject: [svg-developers] Re: SVG Tiny Viewer for Android
> To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 6:42 AM
> Hi Veiko,
>
> It plays Skirt on PC. (Still there is a problem with the
> girls boots. They are oversized :) ) I did not try it on the
> phone however.
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com,
> veiko herne <veiko_h@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Andrew
> >
> > Does it now play my clips, for example
http://wonderries.mobiblogi.com/articles/Episode-one---The-Skirt.html
> >
> > Veiko
> >
> > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 4/21/09, andrewgirow
> <andrewgirow@...> wrote:
> >
> > > From: andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...>
> > > Subject: [svg-developers] SVG Tiny Viewer for
> Android
> > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:10 AM
> > > The Sneak Preview to TinyLine SVG for
> > > Android has been released at 
> > > http://www.tinyline.com
> > >
> > > Download free TinyLine SVG Viewer for Android
> > > http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/tinylineviewer.apk
> > >
> > > Check the User Guide
> > > http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/userguide_and/
> > >
> > > Looking forward to hearing some feedback,
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > -----
> > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > -or-
> > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click
> > > "edit my membership"
> > > ----Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >     mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----
> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> -or-
> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click
> "edit my membership"
> ----Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Hi Veiko,

It plays Skirt on PC. (Still there is a problem with the girls boots. They are
oversized :) ) I did not try it on the phone however.

Thanks,
Andrew

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Andrew
>
> Does it now play my clips, for example
http://wonderries.mobiblogi.com/articles/Episode-one---The-Skirt.html
>
> Veiko
>
> http://veikoh.wordpress.com
>
>
> --- On Tue, 4/21/09, andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...> wrote:
>
> > From: andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...>
> > Subject: [svg-developers] SVG Tiny Viewer for Android
> > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:10 AM
> > The Sneak Preview to TinyLine SVG for
> > Android has been released at 
> > http://www.tinyline.com
> >
> > Download free TinyLine SVG Viewer for Android
> > http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/tinylineviewer.apk
> >
> > Check the User Guide
> > http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/userguide_and/
> >
> > Looking forward to hearing some feedback,
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > -----
> > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > -or-
> > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click
> > "edit my membership"
> > ----Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Andrew

Does it now play my clips, for example
http://wonderries.mobiblogi.com/articles/Episode-one---The-Skirt.html

Veiko

http://veikoh.wordpress.com


--- On Tue, 4/21/09, andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...> wrote:

> From: andrewgirow <andrewgirow@...>
> Subject: [svg-developers] SVG Tiny Viewer for Android
> To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 11:10 AM
> The Sneak Preview to TinyLine SVG for
> Android has been released at 
> http://www.tinyline.com
>
> Download free TinyLine SVG Viewer for Android
> http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/tinylineviewer.apk
>
> Check the User Guide
> http://www.tinyline.com/svgt/download/userguide_and/
>
> Looking forward to hearing some feedback,
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> -----
> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> -or-
> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click
> "edit my membership"
> ----Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

What Eric said, plus you could add a "space" glyph with the desired
advance and make the advance of the "/" = 0.  Then put spaces between
the "/"s

<glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="0" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>
<glyph unicode=" " horiz-adv-x="400"/>

and

<text font-family="custom" font-size="90" startOffset="0" fill="none"
stroke="#000" stroke-width="10">
    <textPath xlink:href="#2258544">/ / / / / / / / / / /</textPath>
</text>

or, you could could leave out the space glyph and do something like

<glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="0" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>

<text font-family="custom" font-size="90" startOffset="0" fill="none"
stroke="#000" stroke-width="10"><textPath xlink:href="#2258544"><tspan
dx="0,400,400,400,400">/////</tspan></textPath></text>

Ken

> On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:59:27 +0200, scalablev <svg@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm using <textpath> to place a custom font along a <path>. In
> > some cases the glyphs are way off when viewed in ASV3:
> > http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/capture.png
> >
> > This is the svg:
> > http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/textpath.svg
> >
> > Can anyone tell if something is wrong in my svg or is it an ASV bug?
>
> You need to tweak your glyph and the advances for it, or adapt the
> path you want to use it on. If it's this simple maybe a stroke-dasharray
> could work instead? Another way with slightly more precision would be to
> use markers, since you can then control exactly where you want the
> markers placed by using moveto commands.
>
> Also if you want the custom font to work in Opera (doesn't yet
> support child elements of the glyph element):
>
>   <glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="400" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>
>
> Cheers
> /Erik

Hello Folks,

No worries, I won't post here every week for each release <grin>.
I've just wanted to post a few times to let people know that we're
actually keeping our release targets and so as such as it's friday,
you can get a new version of Renesis V3 Alpha here:

http://examotion.com/index.php?id=v3

Here's a snap changelong, however besides the changelog we've also
fixed a lot of quirks and more or less smaller bugs:

http://tickets.examotion.com/public/changelog_page.php

Note that you should make sure to have really the latest version
(3.0.1.0) installed. The new release now also shows a little text
with the versioning information at top-left so if you don't see that
you don't have the new version ;-)

Hopefully we'll be able to get a first Beta out after the next Alpha.

Regards
Alex

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:59:27 +0200, scalablev <svg@...> wrote:

> I'm using <textpath> to place a custom font along a <path>. In some cases the
glyphs are way off when viewed in ASV3:
> http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/capture.png
>
> This is the svg:
> http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/textpath.svg
>
> Can anyone tell if something is wrong in my svg or is it an ASV bug?

You need to tweak your glyph and the advances for it, or adapt the path you want
to use it on. If it's this simple maybe a stroke-dasharray could work instead?
Another way with slightly more precision would be to use markers, since you can
then control exactly where you want the markers placed by using moveto commands.

Also if you want the custom font to work in Opera (doesn't yet support child
elements of the glyph element):

   <glyph unicode="/" horiz-adv-x="400" d="M-0,30 0,-30l-5 0l0 30Z"/>

Cheers
/Erik

--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed

I'm using <textpath> to place a custom font along a <path>. In some cases the
glyphs are way off when viewed in ASV3:
http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/capture.png

This is the svg:
http://kart.nois.no/pub/oye/svgtextpath/textpath.svg

Can anyone tell if something is wrong in my svg or is it an ASV bug?

There was a related discussion here more recently. It starts at
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/60518>

We came up with some ideas for more than just piecewise linear variation of the
stroke-width.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Helder Magalhães <helder.magalhaes@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> > I find this subject interesting. Using a transformation to create a
> > calligraphy sort of stroke is a technique I have used too. Look at
> > the SVG at the top of my fonts page
> > <http://frankbruder.fr.ohost.de/fonts.html>
>
> You might want to take a look at a proposal [1] by Doug from a few years ago.
I haven't investigated in order to check whether this is already possible using
the SVG 1.2T vector effects, but it sounds interesting and pretty related to
calligraphy-like stroke effects. ;-)
>
> Regards,
>  Helder Magalhães
>
> [1] http://svg-whiz.com/experiments.html#variableStrokeWidth
>

See also:
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2009Apr/0070.html>
and possible discussion following at the svg mailing list of the w3c.
Didn't spawn a discussion yet, but that's where you need to advocate more vector
effects and equivalents to all PostScript commands for SVGTiny.

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "th_w@..." <th_w@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I read in the archives that there were several threads on how to
> preserve uniform line width for distorted paths, which obviously isn't
> possible with SVG.  I would like to achieve something similar, namely
> distorted line widths (while the path needn't be distorted).  In
> PostScript that's quite easy, like this:
>
>    %!PS
>
>    % Set up global graphics state
>    50 50 translate
>    5 setlinewidth
>
>    % Build the path
>    0 0 moveto
>    0 100 100 100 100 0 curveto
>
>    % Transform for stroking
>    1 2 scale
>    stroke
>
>    showpage
>
> This draws an arch where the (horizontal) center is twice as thick as
> the (vertical) ends.
>
> Of course I can achieve a similar effect in SVG with an arch of half
> the height that I stretch vertically.  For more complex paths and
> distortions, that becomes less trivial, and I believe it becomes
> entirely impossible with text, right?  Or can I do something
> equivalent to this PostScript example:
>
>    %!PS
>
>    % Build a path from text outlines
>    /Courier 24 selectfont
>    50 50 moveto
>    (Text Effect) false charpath
>
>    % transform for stroking
>    -50 rotate
>    1 4 scale
>    stroke
>
>    showpage
>
> In my eyes, a stroke-transform attribute that is similar to the
> transform attribute, but only affects the way in which lines are
> stroked would be a nice thing to have.  What do you think about this?
>
> I want to switch from PostScript to SVG and I thought that SVG could
> draw everything that PostScript can draw (and much more), but it
> appears there are still some areas in which the graphics model is
> inferior.  Of course, in the example above one could convert the text
> into a path with some application, but I wouldn't consider this a good
> solution.  It's not possible to do something like that when writing
> SVG by hand or generating it from an application that doesn't know how
> to convert glyphs into paths.
>
> However, it might be that I'm missing something...
>
> Thomas W.
>

--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Nitya" <nityavyas@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>  I am trying to create an SVG file that will have a graph that i can display.
i am using the DOM implementation as shown below to generate the elements of the
graph. Then i want to join them with the edges... but the problem is that as u
can see in the below code i have to give x, y coordinates in the program and
that is very very difficult when i want to join two elements with an EDGE.
>

In your sample code I do not see where you get the input data. Without knowing
which variables hold the data and in what format I can only guess how this is
supposed to work, but I try to comment.


> String svgNS = SVGDOMImplementation.SVG_NAMESPACE_URI;
>             DOMImplementation impl = new SVGDOMImplementation();
>             Document doc = impl.createDocument(svgNS, "svg", null);
>             Element svgRoot = doc.getDocumentElement(); etc....
>
>
> Element ellipse = doc.createElementNS(svgNS, "circle");
>             ellipse.setAttributeNS(null, "cx", String.valueOf(xPoint));
>             ellipse.setAttributeNS(null, "cy", String.valueOf(yPoint));

String.valueOf() returns the value of the String constructor. What you want is
probably
xPoint.toString()
and
yPoint.toString()


>             ellipse.setAttributeNS(null, "r", "25");
>             ellipse.setAttributeNS(null, "fill", "red");
>             ellipse.setAttributeNS(null, "stroke-width", "2");
>

I suppose
svgRoot.appendChild(ellipse);

will be called somewhere.

> Element edge = doc.createElementNS(svgNS, "g");
>         edge.setAttributeNS(null, "class", "edge");
>         Element title = doc.createElementNS(svgNS, "title");
>         title.setTextContent(node1Index + "&amp;" + node2Index);
>

The escape sequence "&amp;" is used to represent data as text in xml files. When
you interact with the DOM representation you don't use escape sequences (except
for what the programming language requires to be escaped). You just write "&"
here, or else it would result in the literal text "&amp;".

>         Element path = doc.createElementNS(svgNS, "path");
>         path.setAttributeNS(null, "style", "fill:none;stroke:black;");
>         path.setAttributeNS(null, "d", "M"+edgeX1+" "+edgeY1+"L"+edgeX2+"
"+edgeY2);
>
> as u can see in the code of path, i have to get x1,y1  and x2,y2 ... which
does not work.. is there a workaround for this???
>

Now I don't understand where your data is. For the ellipse you had variables
xPoint and yPoint, and now you have edgeX1, edgeY1, edgeX2, edgeY2. I suppose
you want to draw circle markers at specific points and draw edges connecting the
same points, but in your sample code there are only DOM manipulations but none
of your data structures or control structures. I don't see what you're trying
there.

If you want to connect a sequence of points, you could do it like this:

var polyline = doc.createElementNS( svgNS, 'polyline' );
function addPoint (x, y) {
   var point = svgRoot.createSVGPoint();
   point.x = x;
   point.y = y;
   polyline.points.appendItem(point);
   return polyline;
}

Then call addPoint(x,y) once for each point, style the polyline (set fill to
"none", set stroke and stroke-width) and append it to the root element or to a
group in the root element.

> I saw these classes in batik javadoc...  SVGEllipse, SVGPath .. can they be
used so i dnt have to give coordinates myself???

Well, read the corresponding javadoc files. These are extensions of the abstract
class SVGGraphicObjectConverter. They convert java.awt.Shape objects to SVG
elements. So if you know how to build your graph with the Shape drawing classes
of the package java.awt, then you could probably convert it to SVG with the help
of these converter classes.

> Actually i am runnig out of time for this one and so javadoc doesnt give me
idea.. can u pls give some input with example code so that i can achieve this??
>
> i ll really appreciate ur help...
>
> thanks in advance..
>
> nitya
>

The animated icon has no text in it. It's at the left with the post text running
right. The immediate impression I got was that it was your user avatar. It
doesn't look like a banner, and I didn't realise it was a link.

I only managed to find the link by looking at the much smaller icons to the
upper right, the outermost of which showed the title "Jump to Web Site!" when I
hovered the mouse over it. The first time I tried, it timed out though.

To me the animated icon looks like it was a user avatar. Even though I looked
close enough to find the other, much smaller link to your comic, I did not
realise that the animated icon is a link until you pointed that one out. I
suggest you add a text link.


--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Pearman" <richard@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Sorry I was obviously overating the intelligence of people on this list by
assuming that they'd know that if the subject line refered to a "comic" then the
site in question in the signature was the one following the description with the
word "comics" in it.  Yes it takes you to a comic directory but this page
features the comic in question and has obvious links to it - like an animated
icon!
>
> Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
> The next stage in the evolution of web comics:
http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
> Read my Helium articles: http://www.helium.com/users/212199
> South Alberta Cactus and succulent society:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008
>
> --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Terry Riegel <riegel@> wrote:
> >
> > What site was improved. The post doesn't say and the sig has 4 links
> > to different sites.
> >
> > Terry
>